>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom,

If he's ever unironically compared himself to Tolkien he should be hanged on general principle.

GRRM is a guy who has more fun ideas than he has writing ability. He has a point though in that quote.

he hasn't finished his series... how is the "dust settled"?

>>84462650
>He has a point though in that quote.
which is...?

>>84462708
The books literally don't explore Aragorn's tax policy. You can't argue that point.

/tv/ is fucking retarded for having a problem with this

find a better way to justify your hate of this guy

>Moderation was the rule and it is moderation which ruins Tolkien's fantasy and causes it to fail as a genuine romance, let alone an epic. The little hills and woods of that Surrey of the mind, the Shire, are "safe", but the wild landscapes everywhere beyond the Shire are "dangerous". Experience of life itself is dangerous. The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism. Humanity was derided and marginalised. Sentimentality became the acceptable subsitute. So few people seem to be able to tell the difference.

>The Lord of the Rings is much more deep-rooted in its infantilism than a good many of the more obviously juvenile books it influenced. It is Winnie-the-Pooh posing as an epic. If the Shire is a suburban garden, Sauron and his henchmen are that old bourgeois bugaboo, the Mob - mindless football supporters throwing their beer-bottles over the fence the worst aspects of modern urban society represented as the whole by a fearful, backward-yearning class for whom "good taste" is synonymous with "restraint" (pastel colours, murmured protest) and "civilized" behaviour means "conventional behaviour in all circumstances".

>>84462758
>/tv/ is fucking retarded for having a problem with this
why?

>>84462758
his series falls into all the same tropes he claims to break

>hurr everyone is an asshole
>hurr we shouldnt strive for better

fuck off hack

>>84462698
he's written all that he's gonna write. when he keels over from cheeseburger withdrawals in the next month or two the publisher will make a big deal about releasing his drafts of winds of winter but it will never ever be finished.

GoT fags are destined to be eternally cucked

>>84462541
I can't belive he actually wrote something so stupid. It appears he has movie level knowledge of Tolkien's work.

>>84462755
Because it isn't important to the story of the book. Unfinished Tales and Silmarillion has plenty of nitty-gritty on kingdoms (e.g. Numenor) was run. Not to mention GRRM's own descriptions of tax policy were "lol he just borrowed a lot of money"

>>84462854
>Not to mention GRRM's own descriptions of tax policy were "lol he just borrowed a lot of money"

This is what bothers me the most about the quote. GRRM's insights into economic policy and governance amounts to "people starve in the winter".

>>84462800
>guy making an intelligent argument for the inclusion of depth and nuance of the real middle ages to ground the story and make it feel more believable and real
>/tv/ in its infinite simplistic stupidity can only imply it's boring, despite liking Game of Thrones which is full of it

Sapkowski is better than this hack.

>>84463076
>intelligent argument for the inclusion of depth and nuance of the real middle ages to ground the story and make it feel more believable and real
lord of the rings doesn't take place in the middle ages,it's a completely magical and fantastical world
in fact do we even know if taxes exist in lotr?

>>84463076
that's just it, game of thrones is not at all full of it. the most game of thrones does is mention that X family is very wealthy or say that the iron bank loans a great deal of money. there is next to nothing in depth in the GoT series when it comes to finance.

keep my boy Tolkien's name out ya mouth Georgie Porgie... and go finish that fuckin book... any of you knuckleheads in this thread disagree.. come talk to me in 2050 when GoT is regarded as the Dune of its generation

>>84462650

He does but so what? Someone like Terry Pratchett might have come to the same realization and turned it into a witty observation he might express in one of his Discworld novels. Martin on the other hand feels the need to build a whole franchise around a fictional world where all the logistics are somewhat accounted for. And sure, it's a halfway believable world with halfway believable characters but it lacks a strong, engaging narrative because he's to pedantic to commit himself to that certain little element of artifice and narrative contrivance a good fantasy story needs to create the sense of wonder and excitement it needs.

>>84463670
>the wall
>the eyrie
>the white walkers
>the wildfire at king's landing during the battle
>giants
just a few random examples of the "contrived" fantasy elements in the story

>>84463405
I doubt that's true but it's been ages since I've read the books and my memory is terrible so sure why not

LOTR is better than GoT. if you think otherwise you are a redditor

/thread

>>84463791
le "grrrm writing style" how contrived.sad!

you don't need every little aspect of the LOTRverse to have a prologue and epilogue... it's fleshed out enough as is... calm your autism down and enjoy the story

>>84462774
>mythologically-derived saga that tries to affirm good, Christian virtues in the simple and structured ways the mythology itself did
>hurr dis book is about how experience is bad!! muh conservatism! muh desire to protect what is good!

I'm sure that Tolkien would "quibble" with Martin for including detailed passages of an underaged girl's bowel movements and romantic parlances such as "her cunt became the world" or "fat pink mast"

>>84463886
GoTs universe is more interesting than LOTR

>>84463167
>in fact do we even know if taxes exist in lotr?

If they don't, then how do the soldiers feed themselves and their horses? Why do they care what the king orders if they are somehow self supporting? Who pays the blacksmith to make all those swords?

>>84463167
>it's a completely magical and fantastical world
It's a mythological antediluvian earth history.

>>84464295
Tolkien's vision was a pre-industrial world free from kikery. They understand money has no inherent value and people living in towns simply traded their skill for the skills of others. This kind of society is possible when you don't have infantile niggers to coddle.

>>84464295
maybe gandalf uses magic and everybody lived happily ever after the end

>>84464213
wouldnt know im not a gay redditor. im a mans man

>>84462541
>What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
I don't know what got some people laughing at this line, but it's literally gold words of wisdom.

All we know about Aragorn is that he's all so good, but what adds real depth is little things like this. Would he step over peoples needs to reinforce militarism? Would he be dumb enough to confront Gondor's elites? Etc.

Things like this breath life into your characters, you can see this magic work in GRRM's books.

Who cares, at least he's doing something different.

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>>84462620
Tolkien is for fags

>>84462541
>autistic micromanaging is equal to good writing?- 28 posts shown.
It literally does when you think about it.

Tolkien is a mastermind and an innovator, but you can literally see him dismissing certain parts of reality so that he could bend the narrative and the characters to his liking.

All writers do it, Gurm sure does it, but it feels more genuine and honest when characters do fucked up things to achive their goals.

Tolkien is 4chan

GRRM is reddit

It may sound weird and you totally can argue with my point but when I read LOTR I was thinking
>Ok let's see what Tolkien will tell me
But when I read ASOIAF I was thinking
>Ok let's see what these characters will do
Just a thought.

martin appeals to autistic lorefags who need the dullest minutia spelled out for them and can't leave anything to the imagination

>>84464692
>a fantasy author dismisses reality
Please continue, this theory intrigues me

THE MORE SHE DRANK THE MORE SHE SHAT

>>84464692
>a story literally intended to emulate mythology is not realistic enough

...woah

>>84464735
Oops, sorry, meant the other way around. Silly me!

the ship groaned like a fat man straining to take a shit

>>84463961
>good Christian virtues

What are you doing here on 4chan?

>>84462541
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
ORCS DINDU NUFFIN
DEY WUZ INNOCENT
GUD BOI GETTIN HIS LIFE ON TRACK
WE WUZ ELVEZ AN SHEEIT

>>84464905
>he fails to understand the current political climate this bad
2007 called they want you back

>>84464826>>84464868

It's one thing to dismiss a few laws of physics and write in a dragon and another to go
>I don't need internal conflicts in Gondor, Rohan or between them, I don't want armies to suffer disease, hunger or lack of morale, I don't need plots to kill the king, I've got a story that I came up with to get across, don't bug me!
These are 2 different types of dissmissing the reality.
Basically he was bending the narrative so that he could get his massage about friendship and how smallest people may have large impact across or whatever.
Not to diss the man but his writing didn't exactly age well. That and the fact that literature in general progresses as the time goes.

The whole point of high-fantasy as a genre is to escape the reality of the drudgery of everyday life, jesus. People want a world in which characters have complex motivations and various shades of morality and noble dreams and bold ideals and don't need to be held back by the nitty-gritty which consumes every waking moment of the readers' dull lives. Instead this fat autistic cunt would rather make the literary equivalent of one of those euro-simulator games. Don't read fantasy for a dose of reality for fuck sake.

>>84465097

What's wrong with Euro Truck Simulator?

>>84464963
I don't think there is baby orcs, don't they just like spawn full grown? Maybe I should ask /tg/ instead, those nerds usually know their stuff.

>>84465079
For someone so critical of Tolkien's writing you seem to have misunderstood a good deal of it.
>no internal conflict in Rohan and Gondor
>HURR WHO WAS GRIMA WORMTONGUE
>HURR WHO WAS STEWARD DENETHOR
There were plagues in LOTR's history, you just missed them.
As I recall morale and lack of supplies is mentioned many times.

>plot to kill the king
What purpose would this serve exactly in the narrative? It's literally just filler. There's a reason mythologies are concise and aren't overburdened with needless fluff, because it would merely detract from the powerful message.

>it didn't age well
Mythology always ages well because it's literally part of the human condition going back 50,000+. Read some Jung

>>84465097
>Instead this fat autistic cunt would rather make the literary equivalent of one of those euro-simulator games
ASOIAF has enough to be escapism-worthy and just enough not to be cringy in 2017 like LOTR is.

There isn't even much actual politics or management in the show. It's mainly just character drama and action. "we owe the iron bank 150503 gold" has about the same amount of depth as "gondor calls for help."

>>84464905
Have you been living under a rock?

>>84465229

>dude dicks lmao
>not cringy

shoo shoo

>>84462541
I love that people are getting mad at him tying up loose ends.

>>84465196
Tolkien never could decide. He didn't want to create a race predetermined for damnation, sometimes they are corrupted elves. Other times they are distinct race.

>>84465207
>because it would merely detract from the powerful message
Yeah, that's my point.
Tolkien was too much up his own ass to let the characters live, breath and develop.
He made everything very sterile and straight.
>GRIMA WORMTONGUE
Fucking pathetic mate. That's exactly the type of "external evil" Gurm talks about. Crack head looking (even in the books) dude who wants giant flaming eye to rule the world. Lmao.

Thanks I'll stick to complex and "autistic micro managing" fat dude.

>>84465435
>he thinks Grima was a servant of Sauron and not Saruman
You don't fail to consistently show just how poor your reading abilities are

>Tolkien was too much up his own ass to let the characters live, breath and develop.
It's a mythological story not a soap opera / character study you chronic mouthbreather

>americans

>>84465435
>even in the books
>wants giant flaming eye to rule the world

I love when you fucks pretend to have read the books and then immediately expose yourselves.

>>84465097
That's true for you, it's not true for him. Your desire to see high fantasy does not negate his wanting to write something that he enjoys.

>>84464970

Yeah, no. By no means this site is promoting good christian virtues. Not under the current climate and not under any other climate.

>>84462774
fuck off

>>84462541
>Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
I don't think they have cradles. Also, every single fucking orc is a psychopathic murderer, probably even the babies! In the LOTR universe, killing and genociding orcs is an objectively good thing to do.

Why does this quote trigger the neckbeards so hard?

morrowind has better writing than both

>>84463670
>Someone like Terry Pratchett
He never got the respect he deserved. Or maybe he did, he sold a fucking shitton of books.

LoTR fags have to be the saddest bunch. They actually think their shitty genre fiction is any different than the 50 billion other young adult trash fantasy novels (including GoT).

>>84465598
Because they're too stupid to see how powerful stories can come out of seemingly mundane situations. They literally cannot fathom how it could work.

>>84465564
Browse other boards besides /tv/, /v/ and /a/ you incel loser

>>84462541
Tolkien anticipated that question 70 years ago though.

>Most people want more (and better) maps; some wish more for geological indications than place-names; many want more specimens of Elvish, with structural and grammatical sketches; others ask for metrics and prosodies, not only of the Elvish, but of the “translations” that are in unfamiliar modes—such as those composed in the strictest forms of Anglo-Saxon verse (e.g. the fragment on the Battle of Pelennor, Book Five, vi, 124). Musicians want tunes and musical notations. Archaeologists enquire about ceramics, metallurgy, tools and architecture. Botanists desire more accurate descriptions of the mallorn, of elanor, niphredil, alfirin and mallos, and of symbelmynë. Historians require more details about the social and political structure of Gondor, and the contemporary monetary system; and the generally inquisitive wish to be told more about Drúadan, the Wainriders, the Dead Men, Harad, Khand, Dwarvish origins, the Beornings, and especially the missing two wizards (out of five).

>>84464295
>how do the soldiers feed themselves and their horses
they are knights, not hired mercenaries, they own land granted by the king
>Why do they care what the king orders if they are somehow self supporting
because they owe him an allegiance in return for their land and are honourable, so they respect it
> Who pays the blacksmith to make all those swords
they make them because they are levies to thier lords who give them food and safety for that
kingdoms in LOTR are feudal, feudalism was the main political system in middle ages all around the world and it worked just fine with little use of coin. people had their place in society because their father had the same place and didn't question the system or tradition it was based on

>>84465627
what was almalexia's tax policy

>>84465513
>>84465509
>muh saruman
Whatever, not my point. The evil in this story is external and absolutely irredeemable. You can butcher orcs and uruks by thousands with no remorse or consequences and that's who's servant Grima is.
Pretty sad if your brain gets off of only this much compexity.

>>84465664
>Different people are excited by different things

Wow it's almost like both styles of writing are perfectly valid

>>84462541
>Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple.

What an appaling simplification. Does Tolkien play around with ideas and myths like the Fisher King? Yes (so does Martin, see "a Stark in Winterfell). Does he stick to such a philosophy rigidly? No. There are many good and just rulers in Tolkien's works, Dior, Ecthelion, various kings of Arnor and its successor states, who nevertheless preside or the decline or fall of their lands. If a good ruler was all you needed then Inziladûn would have redeemed Númenor, but he didn't (and if we're just talking strictly about prosperous in terms of materialism, which I suspect Martin is, then his son was one of the most evil rulers described and yet conversely he achieved the greatest material success of any kingdom ever before his sudden fall). Tolkien describes plenty of complicated rulers that are simply "good" facing complicated situations with no easy answers. Denethor, Thingol, damn near every descendant of Finwë.


Continued...

>>84465663

Now that's just plain unfair. I don't browse /a/, I browse /co/... which actually does have a fairly decent community, comparatively, but it's still far from promoting christian virtues.

>in the books they charge the wildlings shouting "Stannis! Stannis! Stannis!"
>in the show they charge in silence and his men don't even like him

Why does d&d hate stannis?

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>>84465688
You joke, but there are several quests dealing with Morrowind's tax policy

>>84465739
>>84462541
>>78946353
>But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army?

It is of course supremely arrogant of Martin to declare what Tolkien did and did not think about. As to why Tolkien does not give a detailed account of Aragorn's reign it is incredibly simple: Aragorn is not the main character of Lord of the Rings (for example Tolkien once mentioned if he had been writing the Saga of Aragorn he would have given a live narrative of the Path of the Dead, but since he wasn't a recap by Gimli and Legolas sufficed). Aragorn is an important character, but his importance has actually ended by the time he becomes king, hence why he drops out of the narrative almost immediately. Tolkien's aftermath is not fixated on the fate of kings but the fate of the hobbits. In the appendix we do get a lot on Aragorn's life, but there we see Tolkien's focus is more on fleshing out say Aragorn's relationship with Arwen than his rule, which is kept at a very high level.

And this opens up the obvious question: where are Martin's tax policies and standing armies? Martin's narrative is absolutely about the detail of ruling, both by his own remarks and by the structure of his books. King's Landing is the most common and featured location, and 3 of the 5 books have the ruler of King's Landing as the most prominent character. And yet his descriptions of finances are incredibly vague. So vague people are able to construct elaborate conspiracy theories in the gaps (e.g. was Robert actually a bad ruler who spent too much, or was it all just another supervillain-esque scheme of Littlefinger?).

I could go on about Martin's armies and how they help expose his faux realism with questions about their size, composition and his use of the myth of levied peasantry, or about how a reasonable reader can figure out what happened to orcs, but the post size limit is hitting me again.

>>84462541
I would respect this more if the world in ASOIAF wasn't so goddamn boring. It's ostensibly a fantasy world, but of course fantasy is a pretty fucking lame and doesn't usually contain enough fucking and """"real life"""" to be any good. Instead, the smart thing to do is to add vauge hints of magic here and there - never expand, develop or tie it into the actual world, but just sprinkle it here and there, just enough to keep people thinking like you've planned all this out. Remember, magic is above all a plot device, and not anything that has any connection with the setting itself.

>>84465776
They're Dany fags and just wanted to get him out of the way as soon as possible.

>>84465730
>both styles
GRRM certainly does apply the standard of "must explain tax policy" to himself. His works are themselves short of details, and when they appear (like most of the times he puts down numbers of something) they're nonsensical.

>>84465700
>the evil is external
Literally missing the point of the rings that they corrupt you. Literally doesn't even know about the character of Boromir

kys or read the book I'm done entertaining you brainlet

>>84464213
t. i have only watched the movies
If you like GoT open up a history book. Martin has never done anything that isn't just a clear copy and paste of a historical country or civilization.

>>84464692
>when characters do fucked up things to achive their goals.
Plenty of Tolkien's characters do fucked up things to achieve their goals. Please read his work before trying to analyze, compare or critique it.

>>84465688
you literally start the game in a tax and census office you retard

>>84465835
>GRRM certainly does apply the standard of "must explain tax policy" to himself

How fucking retarded can you possibly be to take that line as a literal questioning of the absence of tax codes. He's making a point about using real life details to craft a story, stop being such a fucking spastic.

>>84465700
>absolutely irredeemable

But that's completely wrong. Both Saruman and Grima are in no way "irredeemable" and such a claim just reinforces the fact that you've never actually read Tolkien but that doesn't stop you from criticizing him.

>>84465870
>Martin has never done anything that isn't just a clear copy and paste of a historical country or civilization.
Yeah, the hivemind of the children of the forest. I remember when the hiveminded druids of england tried to enslave the anglo-saxon tribes that moved in

DOOFUS

>>84465887
the fact that the office exists doesn't give me any info about their tax policy and i can't ask sellus gravius for any information bout it

>>84465627
Was Dagoth Ur justified in keeping ownership of the Heart of Lorkhan, and if so, did he properly declare it in his tax statements?

Did Baar Dau adversely affect the property values in Vivec? Did the Nerevarine's rampant alchemy exploit faggotry inflate the market?

>>84465913
>He's making a point about using real life details to craft a story
Are you functionally illiterate? Did you miss my very next sentence, where I say GRRM DOES NOT provide lots of details, his works are vague as fuck on details, which is fortunate because whenever he tries to get specific on things he fucks up badly.

>>84465540
He can write what he likes, my point was to take a swipe at him the same way he took one at Tolkien. Leaving out Aragorn's tax policy or whatever the fuck wasn't a failing or an oversight in Tolkien's work, it was an intentional decision to omit it and his novels don't suffer for that choice. No genre is better suited to its omission than high-fantasy, and he comes across as a smug dickhead for pointing out this stuff out as though Tolkien could have written a better work had he included gritty, tedious details that serve to get in the way of his storytelling.

>>84465700
You've never actually read any of his books, haven't you? Just watched the movies? Orcs and Uruks are the same thing btw. Only the movies differentiate between goblins, orcs and uruks :)

cant be fucked to read this thread and see if anyone has asked this but... were there even baby orcs? They were born adults out of the mud or some shit, right?

>>84465961
the real question is whether the mudcrab merchant destroy the economy.

>>84465939
>the hivemind
Fuck off Preston. I was obviously referring to the peoples and nations, but it really doesn't matter. Zombies, Dryads and Dragons are not at all original either. Martin's work has pretty much 0 originality setting-wise. Even his main map is just a mangled Great Britain

>>84462758

Shut the fuck up Martin you hack

>>84466047
Most of the fantasy elements aren't stolen from other people, it's stolen from his science fiction books nobody read.

the Hivemind is a pretty original concept of GRRM's, though nothing is truly original.

>>84466015
Yes. There were female orcs and orcs reproduced just like the rest of us.

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>>84466016
>by hiding all my wealth in off-shore Summerset accounts, I have amassed incredible power!

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>>84464679
be gone jew

>GoT fans jerk off for years about how it's totally not just a black and white series
>Final battle is literally against an army of mindless zombie monsters

And before any of you fucks tell me the books will be different, you're absolutely right, the way the books will end is THEY WILL NEVER BE FINISHED

>>84466015
they were the result of elf coalburners tbqhwyf

>>84466093
Yes, yes I've seen Prestons videos too. There's still 0 indication that the CoF are a hivemind. It's just a theory. As it stands the CoF are a pretty standard forest creature race, though we might get more in the later books.

>>84466142
>seen preston
Yeah but have you seen Lucifer means Lightbringer??

>>84466118
>others
>mindless zombies

t. never read the book

>>84465963
>where I say GRRM DOES NOT provide lots of details,

The quote isn't about details, it's about taking a specific way the world worked at one point and crafting a fantasy around it. Questions like what happens to the orcs is him expressing what he personally wanted to see taken to a logic end, because there are stories there. It's fleshing out a world with storylines, not flooding in meaningless details like the correct name of coins at the time. When he says ruling is hard, he means looking at life through the grey lense instead of a black and white one. Every single situation he listed has a potential story around it. You'll notice he likes to keep multiple story lines in the air, using the blueprint of a historical kingdom and how it functioned as the structure. He's not lauding accurately described columns and architectur.

>>84466197
Not him, but at this point they literally are just that. Evil necromancers with an army of mindless drones. They might be a red herring, but we don't know that.

>>84462541

If GoT was never made into a popular TV show you would all worship the ground this man stands on.

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>all these plebs reading Gurm's literal shit
>when the real Tolkien alternative has been staring them in the face for decades.

Ditch that unfinished shit for Eddings, dudes. GRRM can't even write one fantasy series but Eddings wrote like 8.

>>84466211
The orcs were genocided. I don't know why he and (you) pretend their fate was some open question. There's plenty of instances of orcs being entirely wiped out in some areas in Tolkien's work.

>>84466275
>implying i read books
i just watch the show and shitpost on /tv/ kiddo

>>84466107
man, that little shit fucked me up my first playthrough. Got his ebony armor eventually though.

>>84466295
by the time i got there i already had the full daedric set (except the helm ofc)

>>84466275
Good lad. I'm a more of a Tolkien guy myself but at least you don't recommend Michael "Tolkien was a crypto-fascist and why aren't you an anarchist yet?" Moorcock and his edgy drivel.

>>84466211
>The quote isn't about details
Literal quote from you 2 seconds ago:

>He's making a point about using real life details

>When he says ruling is hard, he means looking at life through the grey lense instead of a black and white one.
Which is him and you attacking a made up strawman of Tolkien portraying ruling as easy.

> using the blueprint of a historical kingdom and how it functioned as the structure
And after claiming the details don't matter, now you claim he has followed the "blueprint" of a medieval kingdom and how one actually functioned, which is a complete fucking lie. GRRM's kingdoms are pathetic caricatures based on broad stereotypes, they're not in any way a reflection of how human societies actually work. But since you obviously have switched to lying every post this is the last response you get.

>>84466341
Never read Moorcock but I am not into edgy fantasy.

I love Tolkien but Eddings is a great go-to. I chuckle at how upfront he was about constantly re-using character types in his works. It's ok because he wrote great dialog with those characters and it was all done with a little bit of cheek to it. If I read a couple of pages of an Eddings book, it's usually over for me, because I'm forced to re-read a whole set. I've probably read Redemption of Althalus 6 times or so.

I haven't read much fantasy in a while, though I've been meaning to buy that new Beren and Luthien book to see if it's meaningfully different than the chapter in Silmarillion.

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>>84462541
Teaching is hard. This was maybe my answer to Rowling, whom, as much as I admire her, I do quibble with. Harry Potter had a very Western philosophy: that if the headmaster was a good man, the students would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Rowling can say that Dumbledore was headmaster and was an administrator for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Rowling doesn’t ask the question: What was Dilumbledore’s tuition policy? Did he offer financial aid for poorer magical srudents? What did he do in the time of WWII when air raids were occuring? And what about all these jews? By the end of the 8th book, Voldemort is gone but all of the Death Eaters aren't gone – they’re in the shadows. Did Harry pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby Death Eaters, with their little baby Dark Marks?

>>84466372
I mean meaningless details. What happened to someone is not a meaningless detail in his eyes.

>Which is him and you attacking a made up strawman of Tolkien portraying ruling as easy

Tolkien didn't get to the behind the scenes stuff as much as GRRM. It's an absolute fact and unarguable.

>And after claiming the details don't matter, now you claim he has followed the "blueprint" of a medieval kingdom and how one actually functioned, which is a complete fucking lie.

It's an absolute undeniablility that GRRM focused on political structures. You're a complete fuck up and should never have posted.

>>84462541
>This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with.
I like the implication that he thinks he's on the same level as Tolkien, and has the merit to "quibble" with him as if they're equals.

>>84466551
>Tolkien didn't get to the behind the scenes stuff as much as GRRM. It's an absolute fact and unarguable.
It isn't unarguable. I've read everything Tolkien has done, and everything ASOIAF related from Martin. Tolkien isn't as shallow as you think, and Martin isn't as detailed as you think.
>It's an absolute undeniablility that GRRM focused on political structures.
He.. really doesn't though. He has lords, vassals and the court. Nothing special. If he actually was nuanced and knew a lot about political systems, he would have never written that a vassal-appointed king (Robb) as styling himself as "King In the North".

>>84466831
In fact, I'm fairly sure Tolkien's description of the political structure of the Shire goes far more into detail than any of Martin's descriptions of political structures.

>>84466926
st00pid irish ppl

>>84466831
>He doesn't though. He has lords, vassals and the court

And none of those things have anything to do with a kingdom's political structure. Who's next in line for what throne, how will that person effect the kingdom, who's trying to kill for the crown, the incest, none of this had any basis in political structure, you're right.

>>84467207
>do with a kingdom's political structure
.. Yes they do. The division of land and rights in a feudal world are extremely important to the kingdoms political structure. There's no discussion on poor nobility being socially higher than the rich merchants, there's just lords and lieges. Lieges are below lords, nuff said. If we just look at the Shire for example: The Shire has a powerless de jure leader, and several de facto leaders who hold different amounts of land and powers + two different "military forces" with different purposes.
>Who's next in line for what throne, how will that person effect the kingdom, who's trying to kill for the crown, the incest
Quite literally all of these things happen in Tolkien's books. Seriously, all of them. The history of Gondor, Arnor and Numenor has plenty of usurpations, intrigue and civil war.

tolkien is racist af

>>84462708
No one ever speaks about the orc genocide.

Medieval tax policies are complex.

>>84467339
>lords are below lieges*

>>84462758
He's a shitty writer desu

>>84465700

>being this fuckin retarded
>Year of our Lord 2017

>>84463076
I don't think you have the first idea of what constitutes depth and nuance in writing, anon.

>>84464213
No it fucking isn't

>>84462620
He has never directly compared himself to Tolkien, and he's obviously going for something different.

>>84467339
>Yes they do. The division of land and rights in a feudal world are extremely important to the kingdoms political structure

Yes anon I was being sarcastic.

>Quite literally all of these things happen in Tolkien's books. Seriously, all of them.

That's great but he tends to focus more on the ring, monsters, and quests than GRRM does. The name of the show is even about political struggles.

>>84465079
>>I don't need internal conflicts in Gondor, Rohan or between them
If you're gonna talk about it at least try to pretend that you've actually read anything by Tolkien.

>>84462854
>"lol he just borrowed a lot of money"
just like real life

> "I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men, it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing."

> Its an obese draft dodger tells a war veteran and university professor how the world works episode

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>>84465700
>hasn't read a single page of LOTR
>still trying to talk shit about it
You're a fucking dunce

>>84467585
>That's great but he tends to focus more on the ring, monsters, and quests than GRRM does.
This is true enough. Tolkien's stories focused more on the adventure, while his appendices and letters fleshed out the histories of his realms.

>>84462755
That point is immediately inconsequential because fat fuck didnt wrote about westeros tax policy either.

>>84465229
Are you 15 or something?

>>84462541
>Never addresses inflation or exchange rates for currency

why are there so many GoT redditors in /tv/?

>>84467739
They come here for the general.

What was the tax policy in GoT?

Fatboy is so full of shit

Honestly, it seems like 99.9% of the people who trash talk Tolkien here have never read a single word from him. You guys are absolutely unfamiliar with his work.

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>>84462541
>waah, this fantasy universe doesn't conform to the historical reality that was Medieval Europe

>>84468043
There's a single tax described in detail in GoT. It's a tax on whores, that doesn't even make sense.

>>84468090
I guess it makes sense if whores are legal like in Roman society

But I thought GoT was just fantasy medieval Europe

>>84462541
Hes writing is shit and predictable
>muh rape on women even tho men were more raped in wars
>Every character who has something going on for him dies, and with it all the loopholes who now are forgot without conclusion because we need to ship on the next character soon to be killed
Every time someone defends his bullshit is the same argument
>But he uses no protagonists and everyone can die, thats a original ideia
Just because its original doesnt mean its fun you fucking cunt, I could put some shit on your cofee, you can say its a bad ideia, but hey its original so lets try it

>>84468164
There was legal prostitution in some parts of medieval Europe at some times.

But I'm saying the specifics of the tax itself didn't make sense, not the general idea.

>>84468056

It pisses me off when GoT tops fantasy lists over LOTR.

The funny thing is all the excuses for the drop in quality and GRRM not fulfilling promises.

>>84468178
Dont forget how he spend time explaining stupid stuff in his books like taxes

Idiot still writes on like a Apple 2 he keeps working with hope and duct tape. Old man needs to get with the times. Evolve or die

>>84468243
But he doesn't do this. There are lengthy descriptions in GRRM's works of things like people eating, or shitting, but no time spent explaining tax policy.

>>84463111
Underrated post

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>>84466518
None of this matters because we're talking about one of the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises. Seriously each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody?just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the books were good though
"No!"
The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.

>>84468178
>Every character who has something going on for him dies, and with it all the loopholes who now are forgot without conclusion because we need to ship on the next character soon to be killed
You're a retard who doesn't seem to have even read his work. The number of characters he kills off isn't even large, he's much more a fan of pretending to kill somebody off to bring them back later.

>>84468178
Have you actually read the books? Yeah, a lot of characters die, but it's not nearly as bad as people make it seems, especially considering the size of the cast. By book 5 there are way too many characters and subplots, there's no way he can keep up with it, he'll have to get rid of at least half of them in order to reach a conclusion.

>>84468363
>>84468478
The "GRRM kills everyone" is such a tiresome meme. The only two big characters he's killed off are Ned and Cat, and of course killing off the parents of children so they have to fend for themselves isn't shocking, it's a standard cliche.

>>84462541
I misread that as
>Rolling is hard

>>84468340
Fuck that caught me by surprise

>>84462541
that whole block of text is pure autism

only an autist would get hung up on shit like taxes in a EPIC

>>84468606
>he doesn't remember Lucifer's detailed VAT tax plan in Paradise Lost

>>84462541
Tolkien's Legendarium is grounded in mythical or fairytale-like themes and tropes, hence why a good king equals the land prospering, good triumphs over evil after much hard work, etc.. Moreover, this is the same reason why there's no "tax policy" or "sewage management" in these works. You ever read a classic fairy-story or legend where there's an autistic focus on the minutiae on the king's tax policy or how exactly the shit flows to the sea?

Tolkien's fantasy focuses on different things to your fantasy George.

>>84462541
I've read all the books and I really can't understand why it takes him so long, the whole series is extremely average and it's not like he's some great writer in general, I feel like he could just hire someone to ghostwrite the final books and no one would ever know the difference.

>>84462758
the more she drank the more she shat

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why didtn memedo just meme the ring to memedor?

>>84463076
Nobody is making fun of him because it's boring, were making fun of him because he's a hypocrite

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>>84462774
>Moorcock, the king of albino fan-fiction speaks out

>all these paragraphs

fuck off reddit

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>>84468340
>Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.
this will never get old

>>84462541
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
this cant be real

99% of you are just jealous

>>84462541
>Rip off history while putting in dumb edge, shallow pessimism and fetish porn in there
>Beloved by millions of faux nerds and one of the most popular TV shows of all time.

God bless him

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>>84462541

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literally cant wait till the new got season comes out so we can have 20 more threads like this

>>84462541
Ah, yes. The one thing missing from LotR is clearly an in-depth scene describing Aragorn taking a shit.

So in what order should I read Tolkien's work? I read The Hobbit and the first two LOTR books when I was a teenager, but didn't finish Return of the King. Was thinking about going through all his middle earth related stuff again.

I never read the Silmarillion or Children of Hurin either.

Say what you will, Hobbitlets, but George writes in a keenly modern and accessible style that appeals to tens of millions.

>>84470717
1 - The Hobbit
2 - LOTR
3 - Silmarillion
4 - The rest in whatever order you like

>>84462541
Martin's characters have mono dimensional and random behavioral patterns, their actions and not prepared in the script, they delve into erratic petty politics and schemes to provoke and impress the reader in a world that dragons existed and exist and in a world that shadows kill people from afar and magical frost themed outsiders threaten the lands. How can that make sense? Why would you care about taxes and who your psychopath son will marry in his reign when there are priests who raise the dead and assassins who take whatever form they want in order to kill whomever they want, etc? This is an "art" that poses as pseudo realistic, but in truth is an undecided mix of high fantasy, medieval pseudo realism, porn, epic parody and Martin's personal complex about how cruel the world is. The problem with his art is, that it does not make sense and it does not have cohesion and a robust core like Tolkiens art did. He fails because he has not decided on what the core of his work is. Hell, he doesn't even have a main story. Oh, and by the way, he needs to lose the RR's from his middle name. It's embarrassing.

>>84470862
Okay, Hemmingway, improve it then

>>84462541
>what was aragorns tax policy
>general questions about how Aragon was as a king

As far as I know Aragorns story ends with him becoming king in both the movies and books. Why does Tolkien have to explain things that happened to characters once the story is over? Did the movie and books really need some sort of epilogue or narration explaining these things?

>>84470325
Of a pretentious lazy shit rolling around in money for the literary equivalent of slasher movies?

>>84470719
No one is saying that it's impossible to derive some sort of fun experience from reading GRRM, but to compare him to Tolkien is simply ridiculous. And his particular "criticism" of Tolkien, as stated in the OP, is ridiculous as well.

>>84470913
Hemingway sucked ass, too.

>>84470503
>the sight of their arousal was arousing
kek

>>84471065
>avoiding my challenge
Stay a brainlette and let the adults talk good literature, kid

>>84471176
But he's the only one in this exchange that has actually written more than a single sentence. You're on the back foot here anon

>now that the dust has settled can we agree that he's a hack who thinks autistic micromanaging is equal to good writing?

I think you missed the entire point. Aside saying Aragorn was "good" it never really showed any part of his rule and how he dealt with more gray areas was the point.

>>84471241
I'm waiting

>>84462921
>>84462854
Wasn't Tyrion into that in the second book? I think it's not talked again, but at least it was mentioned.

>>84471323
"You do it better" isn't a valid response to criticism. Sorry

>the more she drank the more she shat

BRAVO GRRM. JUST PURE LITERARY GENIUS

>>84471305
Because it ends with him being crowned king

>>84471371
>le inassailable critic maymay
K

>Fantasy fiction should be realistic and historically accurate

GRRM is a fucking hack, even for genre fiction standars, at least Tolkien wasn't an autistic manchild.

>the interview question asks him what he thinks are some differences between his books and LOTR
>he gives a reasonable answer

literally what is wrong with that quote

>>84471065
>Hemingway sucked ass
Make like hemingway and open up your mind

>>84465598
Because love or hate him Tolkien is the God of Fantasy novels and nobody has even come close to being half as good.

Some half ass shit author who writes borderline porn criticizing Tolkien is blasphemy.


>>84465639
Terry had a cult following, he was like one of those movies that was really good but never got that much recognition besides from a select few.
Sadly when Harry Potter came about he was only considered the second best living fantasy author since.

Terry was a true gem though, a stand up guy and a great author.
I stopped reading for weeks after I finished the shepherd's crown, I never felt such loss for a person I did not know.

>>84471448
>inassailable
Not really. It's just that "You try do it better" doesn't negate or even address any of the points made. It's a non-argument

>>84471467
Because Martin is a fat hack

>>84471467
hello red.dit

>>84469040
Seriously though I wonder why he never did get a ghostwriter, his publisher has to realize they're sitting on a potential mountain of cash that's dwindling as the show starts to spoil the ending.

why do SJW nu-males love GoT so much?

>>84471501
Got it. Stay pleb

>>84462541
are you comparing GoT to Dwarf Fortress?

>>84471559
Did you watch the show?
It's just a parade of stronk womyn characters with adamantium plot-armor and a bunch of useless guys, everything that doesn't have a vagina is worthless in the GoT universe.

>>84471559
Because HBO dumps a shit ton of money into advertising it and they're the type of people who slurp that shit up. That and shitty characters like Jon Snow or Dany are seen as cool and interesting when my last shit had more depth than both of the combined and squared.

>>84465639

My sister and I read pretty much all his Discworld novels, I've even read a few in different languages. They never fail to cheer me up, a true treasure.

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Even an uneducated, unread pleb like me understands that "the ability to rule" was not the point of the books at all. Tolkien liked Beowulf and old anglo-saxon and north european folk and stories and wrote books based off what he liked. A story about magic rings, a king in exile with healing hands (english and french kings were said that their hands could heal), evil sorcerers and a message about friendship and about overcoming adversity but also how life changes you.

Getting anal about a fairy tale not making sense realistically makes you a jackass.

>>84471667
So it is realistic? Darwinism dictates exactly that

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ITT: Retards

Notice how none of the butthurt /tv/ shits actually attempt to answer the question. This isn't a defense of Martin (he literally does it too) just an observation. You faggots don't want to admit your defense of Tolkien is "just turn your brain off". Admit it for fucks sake, it's great of you turn your brain off. It's not that hard to admit.

Besides the shit Martin is saying is literally the same shit Zach the hack Snyder inplements into his shitty attempted deconstruction of capeshit, you defended it when he flounders and fails.

>muh grittier take
>muh realistic elements
>muh religion and gods
>muh edgy shit

Tolkien is the MCU of the fantasy genre, you can enjoy it if you want but don't complain when someone calls you a brainlet.

>>84462774
Fuck Moorcuck

>>84472514
Except Tolkien is good and Martin is shit, so quality wise, Martin is MCU and Tolkien is DCEU

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>>84462541
STOP. COMPARING. ASOIAF. TO. LOTR

Both books are vastly different from one another even if the themes are similiar. It is absolutely stupid that this thread is created every single day.

Why do people in this thread think a real take on medieval-based fiction is somehow autistic micromanaging and/or edgy bullshit? What the fuck?
Open a fucking history book.

>>84472631
Stop being a hypocrite, Snyder is terrible for the same reason GRRM is terrible.

>>84472324
Darwinism is retarded though

>>84462541
>But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
I have never been more trigged.

Fiction is made for entertaining and adressing big philosophical ideas, not details like this. Who gives a fucking shit what Aragorn's tax policy was like, who wants to read that, what would be the point.

Jesus Christ.

>>84472895
Fuck off mouse shill
The point I was raising was that both are terrible

His critiscism makes no sense because I don't recall Martin going into detail about taxes either

>>84472935
Taxation and government control ARE big philosophical ideas. You could argue that it wasn't the idea that Tolkien wanted to write about in LOTR, and I would agree, but it doesn't mean tax policies would be pointless to write about.

>>84473055
In a fantasy novel writing about taxes is a waste of time

>>84472838
I don't think a realistic take on fantasy is bad, but
a) That's not the point of LotR, so Tolkien didn't even try.
b) Martin does try to do that and fails miserably.

What were the tax policies in ASOF?

Even though I disagree entirely with what George implies here, him triggerment of the Tolkien cucks is something to behold.

>>84471484
"Hemingway killed himself when he discovered he wasn't a good writer."

-JL Borges

>>84473134
He doesn't say which is why his criticism is so stupid.

>>84473286
You're taking this taxes thing way too literally. What means by what he said was that LOTR characters are bland and uninteresting and have no quality other than being good or being bad. You can't prove him wrong on that.

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>>84472935
>Fiction is made for entertaining and adressing big philosophical ideas, not details like this.

I agree

>>84470503
I'm a brainlet, so I read genere fiction exclusivley, but /lit/ is fucking based when they shit on it.

>>84473134
Tax policies literally ruined the seven kingdoms. When the Mad King rode to Duskendale to talk about taxes, the lord disagreed and imprisoned him. The imprisonment was what helped turn Aerys into the insane asshole that helped destroy Westeros.

>>84473326
>What means by what he said was that LOTR characters are bland and uninteresting and have no quality other than being good or being bad.
This isn't true at all though

>>84473333
quads of truth

>>84473415
Yeah, how is it not true? Please explain to me the various qualities of character that Aragorn, Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, etc have?

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>>84473333
checked

>>84462620
He thinks he is better than Tolkien, don't you understand what that quote means?

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The mother of burgers

>>84473489
No, he doesn't, you're taking that out of your ass. George has praised Tolkien numerous times. He even said Tolkien was a huge inspiration to him and that he values his books greatly.

>>84473134
>>84473286
Kingdom is so indebted that it doesn't matter.
It's like asking "What is the tax policy of Greece?" when their debt is 1.7 times bigger than their total market value.

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>>84473333
Holy shit

>>84473565
It's not like that means anything. Every noble in the series still continues to borrow money without any repercussions

>>84473489
How is he not? Don't bring up "muh fat draft dodger" or "LAZY HACK."

>>84473628
Examples?

>>84473648
Tolkien finished his series while it's been over 20 years since A Game of Thrones was published

>>84473469
You do realise moral ambiguity isn't the only way to have character depth, right? Sure, you could label characters in LOTR good or bad, but that's a pretty blatant over-simplification. For examply, both Frodo and Sam could be considered "good" by nature, but Frodo differs from Sam where he shows compassion and pity for Gollum.

>>84473752
frodo and sam are gay lovers

>>84473752
Sam just wanted Frodo's attention all on him and was jealous of Gollum. In fact Gollum was changing his ways but Sam continuous bullying put a stop to that

>>84473752
That all? Even the most "bland" character in GOT (Daenerys) has more complexity than Frodo and Sam combined. I don't like turning this into a dick contest because I love both series, but LOTR isn't perfect by any means.

>>84473841
>The sight of their arousal was arousing
amazing depth right here

>>84473803
>male friendships are gay

roastie or homo detected

Here's a question for you guys. How old is Frodo?

>>84473876
sam was his idiot gardener and 20 years younger than him so it's more like a master slave type of situation

>>84473862
Pretty funny, if you ask me. I don't know what this has to do with my post or the complexity of Daenerys character, though.

>>84473905
THEY WERE FRIENDS REEEEEEEEEE

>>84473862
That's written from the perspective of like a 14 year old girl, you know.

>>84473891
At what point in the story?

>>84473935
That is what Daenerys's character is. She spends most of her time being horny

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>>84473876
>Share the load

>>84473967
It's written in the third person though. GRRM is just kinda shit at prose

>>84473968
General age is fine. The reason I asked is because those who don't know his age never read the books

>>84474067
He's a young man. He's about twenty

>>84474067
I think he's about 50 when he leaves the shire, right?

>>84474102
Yes. This moron obviously didn't read the books>>84474101

>>84474067
I've read the books and couldn't even name the guys who go to carry the ring.

>>84462708
There's no nuance or depth to pretty much anything in Tolkien's world.

And he truly is right about that, but that shows that GRRM misses the point: the Lord of the Rings is supposed to be a modern day story that harks back to the old Anglo-Saxon myths and legends, like Beowulf and the Fenian Cycle. It's not supposed to have depth and nuance. The characters Tolkien created were based on the characters in those stories, with little or no moral ambiguity, clear-cut sections designed for easy oral reading, and a third-person narration style that tells the story as if it is a myth from ages past.

GRRM does have a point. It's just not a really valid criticism, as Tolkien had no desire to explore tax plans in his stories, nor would it have fit the genre he was writing.

LoTR is heavy mystical fantasy about a literal war of good vs evil. The kingdoms were largely irrelevant except as set pieces.

GoT is about mundane human conflict where people are not mystically evil but flawed and/or have conflicting interests. The kingdoms are integral to realistically magnifying the scope of human failing.

People that hate of popular things in desperate attempt to seem cool are mistaken in the belief that the majority of people can't see right through them.

>>84474239
>There's no nuance or depth to pretty much anything in Tolkien's world.
You can't be serious. Tolkien started the worldbuilding meme that every fantasy hack follows

>>84473721
>Tolkien finished his series
silmarillion

>>84474265
>it's popular so it has to be good
Are you going to tell me capeshit is good too?

>>84464812
That's because you understand that Tolkien was working on an allegory and there is something to it other than the narrative itself. Remember that Tolkien was a scholar and a professor back in the days when the titles meant something.

Martin, on the other hand, is simply a fiction writer. Not that it's something bad.

>>84474300
Tolkien finished LOTR and The Silmarillion was published after he died. His son just turned his notes into a readable novel

>>84464812
But GRRM's POVs read the same

It's hard to take GRRM seriously when he's so obsessed with the word cunt

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>>84465079
>He doesn't know about Grima
>He doesn't know about the Nazgul
>He doesn't know about the head catapults
>I don't know about the "where was Gondor" meme

>>84464812
GRRM writes in third person too, he's just much worse at it.

>>84465229
>Friendship, patriotism and optimism is cringy
Autism, the post

>>84473993
First off, Daenerys is like 15 in the books so that's obviously natural. Teens are usually horny as fuck, whether they are boys or girls. Second, Dany is a young naive girl that wants to be a good ruler and make the people she rules over happy. But she slowly comes to realize that being a kind ruler and a conqueror don't go very well hand in hand. She is constantly unsure of herself, of where her path leads and what she needs to do. She is a colossal fuck up in the rulling aspect and is unable to look at the various nuances of the world, instead prefering to see everything in black and white. She is not a really good leader, but the aspects of her personality that usually hold her back are also the things that draw a close circle of loyal followers. There is more to add but you get the picture.

Give me something on Frodo or Aragorn besides "he wants to do the right thing". Give me something on Sauron besides "he is a loyal follower of Morgoth and wants to destroy the world... for what exactly? Give me something on Morgoth himself besides "WAAAH, I'm jealous so I'm gonna fuck some shit up".

>>84474286
But that's George's problem with what Tolkien has created - this huge following of bandwagoners who have nothing to add. He called Tolkien an architect while others, including himself, as gardeners. He has nothing but praise for Tolkien and that quote from the OP is taken out of context completely.

>The dwarves didn't pay their taxes and so Moria fell into the hands of the Balrog
Let this be a lesson to all of you

>>84465663
yes, I'm sure /b/, /d/, /trash/, /hm/, /cm/, /y/, /u/, /e/, /h/, /hr/, /pol/, /mlp/, /aco/, /soc/, /vp/, and PRETTY MUCH EVERY OTHER FUCKING BOARD are all very upstanding and don't constantly post un-Christian content.

Please remember where you're posting. This website used to have a board dedicated to loli porn. To this day, the average catalog of a given board will contain at least one thing that is somehow non-Christian.

Unless you're being very selective with your Bible passages, that is. And actually, I take back /mlp/, all they want to do if fuck ponies. That's pretty much in line with what a lot of early Christians did.

>My friends, you pay taxes to no one
No idea what GRRM is screeching about. It's almost like he didn't read LOTR

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>>84465795
Underrated.

>>84465229
>in 2017
>cringy
In all seriousness, you sound like the kind of person who watches Keeping Up With The Kardashians.

>>84474598
>all they want to do if fuck ponies. That's pretty much in line with what a lot of early Christians did
wew lad

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>This was maybe my answer to Tolkien
>HOLD THE DOOR
>HOLDTHEDOOR
>HOLD'DOOR
>HODOR

what a genius.

>>84474564
>Frodo drew the Ring out of his pocket again and looked at it. It now appeared plain and smooth, without mark or device that he could see. The gold looked very fair and pure, and Frodo thought how rich and beautiful was its colour, how perfect was its roundness. It was an admirable thing and altogether precious. When he took it out he had intended to fling it from him into the very hottest part of the fire. But he found now that he could not do so, not without a great struggle. He weighed the Ring in his hand, hesitating, and forcing himself to remember all that Gandalf had told him; and then with an effort of will he made a movement, as if to cast it away - but he found that he had put it back in his pocket.
Frodo was already too attached to the ring.

>>84468478
>>84468515

I disagree. Books 4 and 5 both felt quite empty, and I know that's partly because he split them into two when he meant to write them as one initially, and divided the characters between each book likewise, but there legitimately are not a whole lot of the initial cast left. Yes, GRRM keeps replacing them with new people, but then he's stuck doing character introductions for characters like "the Gryphon", who's clearly just Renly v.2.

Of those that started out, Tyrion is left because plot armor, Dany is left because plot armor, Jon is left because plot armor, the cripple is left because plot armor, Arya is still alive because plot armor, the incestibles are left because GRRM wants to kill them off in the finale...and that's about it. Every other major player has died. Even the replacements for the other major players have died. In some cases, even the replacements for the replacements for the main players have died. I'm surprised there's anyone left to rule in Dorne at all after the shit that went down there.

It is kind of ridiculous, actually. Look at the War of the Roses, a war that GRRM has said that he at least in part based his books on. How many major players died during the entire fucking thing? Less than a dozen. How many characters with major political or military power have died in GRRM's novels, in a war at least partly based on the War of the Roses? Close to 300, I believe, counting up the slave masters, wildling leaders, Dothraki, and other groups with less focus but still quite a lot of power along with the ones that have the larger share of the novels' focus.

GRRM likes his blood and death, even if it defies his own rules about making sense in a real historical setting.

>>84474936
> I know that's partly because he split them into two when he meant to write them as one initially
Shitty excuse since both books combined have over 2000 pages

>>84474936
Does GRRM not know what ransom is?

>The Freys are somehow still alive
When you break unwritten rules no one is going to trust you and will isolate you so they should have died off ages ago but somehow people still have dealings with them. Bravo GRRM

>>84463886
No it isn't
Yeah GoT has taken a nose dive into the dirt but even with it being terrible LOTR's dive was even more horrendous

When comparing which franchise can probably be saved, it's probably GoT

>>84474932
But the ring is an external source of corruption, it literally consumes your mind for no reason other that it was made for Sauron. It has no great properties, it has nothing to tempt you with. It's just evil and it makes the user gradually turn evil. What we see here is Frodo getting corrupted just because the ring has those properties, not because Frodo is tempted by anything but false illusion created by the ring.

>>84474827
>Blaming GRRM for what these hacks Dabid and Dan are doing to his books.

Great. I'd imagine you'd add Stannis burning his daughter next to the list of stupid things GRRM has done.

>>84475213
> these hacks Dabid and Dan are doing to his books.

Now you're starting to understand why everyone hates white people. This is just a taste of it

>>84475213
Hold the door is obviously a Gurm thing and it will obviously play out a lot better in the books that will never come out.

>>84475370
...Because of the jews?

>>84475462
We'll see. I sincerely doubt it. It's the same stupid shit as the COTF somehow creating the White Walkers. Think it's better to take the series as more of a fan fiction now than canon.

>>84475491
Plot twist: you are the jew

>>84468178
>muh rape on women even tho men were more raped in wars
Wait what

>>84465079
WHERE

WAS

G O N D O R
O
N
D
O
R

>>84465795
/thread

>>84474358
GRRM has finished more works than just ASOIAF, and I don't doubt he's got notes upon notes of what he'd like to do with the series.

>>84473628
The Baratheon usurper successfully got loans from the Iron Bank to fight the """rightful king""" only because the Kingdom is in so much debt.

>>84465079
>literature in general progresses as the time goes.

If Martin's War of the Roses OC fanfiction with hints of magic and edge is progress then god help us all.

>>84473326
>What means by what he said was that LOTR characters are bland and uninteresting and have no quality other than being good or being bad. You can't prove him wrong on that.
You're wrong. Next time read his books instead of reading articles about the movies.

>>84474564
>he wants to do the right thing
But that isn't Frodo's nor Aragorn's character motivation. You do realize that you're being hopelessly biased? You could condense what you wrote about Dany as "she want's to do the right thing", but you wouldn't do that because you like Martin's work?
>"he is a loyal follower of Morgoth and wants to destroy the world
READ. THE. FUCKING. BOOKS. Sauron repented after the War of Wrath, but he wasn't willing to unconditionally surrender to the Valar because of his pride and fear.
>for what exactly?
READ. THE FUCKING. BOOKS. Morgoth (and by extension Sauron) want's to destroy anything created by the Song of Ainur that wasn't his doing.

>>84475177
>it has nothing to tempt you with.
Seriously? Have you not even watched the movies? The Ring corrupts most people with the temptation of having power, what that power would be used for depends on the person. Gandalf is tempted by the ring because he wishes to save Middle Earth, Boromir is tempted by it because he wishes to save Gondor.

>>84473055
Taxation is theft, it's not a big philosophical idea.