Is voyager really that bad? I'm 7 episodes in and I dislike

what will voyager do when it runs out of torpedoes? :(

>>84461935
This.

>>84461881
Personally I found Star Trek Voyager starts of shit but I think it grew on me. I liked the sense of being stuck on another side of the galaxy and having to go through completely unknown regions.

Although, I think it could have been done better. The sense of danger just wasn't really there as it should be.

I like it for different reasons than I like The Next Generation.

>>84462042

>:(

>>84461881
>Is voyager really that bad?
Yes. It never exceeds a C-

>>84462042
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k
>If we armed my ships with your photon torpedoes…
>I can't authorize that.
>Why not?
>Because we've already used more than we have.

>>84462042
replicate more

>>84462823
what will voyager do when it runs out of replicator food rations? :(

>>84462823
You can't

>>84461881
it's a meme series favored by reddit

>>84462823
No replicators, that's why they needed Neelix

>>84462874
Genocide some space niggers and use their bodies as replicator material. Janeway needs her coffee, and Chakotey his Choco Latte

It's the only star trek where the captain should have been mutinied. Janeway entire decision with the caretaker is the first time the crew should have kicked her out. Janeway chooses the lives of a people unknown to her, who live for 7 years and by all accounts are helpless without intervention. She puts those lives ahead of her own crew and goes on A literal "star trek" darting around the galaxy. She did all this to prevent the mason from commendeering the array and using it for their own purposes. Who cares, its clear that once the kazon step into actual space they will run into a species with technology so vastly superior they will be destroyed anyway and what will happen to the array? Probably get stolen by the species that destroys the kazon. If voyager could have gone home they should have, it what every logical captain would do. Instead Janeway takes her entire crew on a 70 year trip through unknown space with nothing but a ship made for categorizing anomalies. Her attitude is also quite embarrassing for someone on her position of power. She gets in constant spats over coffee, not dress codes or misaligned sensor reading but coffee and whenever the going gets tough she turns to tuvok for advice even though Chakotay is her first officer. Chakotay is really only there to appeal to the maquis side of the crew, he no other reason to be there or for her to think anything he says counts. When other captains got testy on their ships they always tried to alleviate tension by invited the senior staff to eat with them or talk with them, every time Janeway gets a headache due to an overloaded EPS manifold it's "I'll be in my ready room taking a luxurious bath while you fix this shit" not the conduct you would see from Archer, Picard,Kirk. They would be there with the crew fixing it with tgem not soaking there feet.

Long story short Janeway as a captain shows she has a narrow, naive and idealistic sense of the universe and it puts the lives of her and her crew in danger

The Captain kept being inconsistent in everything, she almost becomes a different character in some episodes.

>>84462934
That was one of the points of the show, they had to replicate all their own spare parts and shit, so as a response they had to actually use a cook and convert a cargo bay into hydroponics area

>>84462934
They had replicators, they just had to budget the energy for them to vital stuff, so they had him cook food instead.

>>84461881
It's about on par with TOS. Some good episodes and ideas, but they're outweighed by the bad ideas and downright shockingly bad episodes.

>>84461881
Why did the writers make Chakotay so fucking terrible? He's supposed to be a terrorist. He could have been a good anti-hero if they made him a bit more villainous and rebellious.

>>84463248
Janeway was spiking them all to ensure compliance

>>84461881
I think Janeway is autistic

People who defend Janeway needto rewatch Stargate Atlantis. Elizabeth Weir is basically the same character, just done much better

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>>84463361

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>>84463299
That's a wrong opinion. Elizabeth Weir was pure garbage. Janeway at least had some good moments.

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why didnt the caretaker just transport the ocampa to the alpha quadrant?

>>84462988
Top post lad, agreed with all of it.

>the captain should have been mutinied
Definitely. Especially the Maquis: a third of the crew was dead including the XO, CMO and Chief Engineer, it was the perfect opportunity to take over the ship (do a ship switch trick like Dukat in DS9) and get themselves back home in time for tea with the brand new Intrepid Class starship to turn against their enemies. It was ridiculous how easily Janeway convinced them to team up and how seamlessly they merged, except for that one episode where Tuvok makes them run until they love Starfleet 4 eva.

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>>84463248
Chakotay becoming a villain would have to be done over multiple episodes, UPN wanted a show they could syndicate and broadcast forever in any order.

>>84463629
Wait I thought ds9 was on upn

>>84461881
It never really gets consistently good. Watch all the seasons, and you will walk away remembering the episodes you liked and the episodes you never want to see again.

>>84463756
It may have been at some point, it was syndicated though, which means they made the show then sold it to whoever wanted to air it, whereas UPN commissioned Voyager and Enterprise and told them what they wanted.

>>84461881
Voyager is not as bad as a lot of people will try to convince you but it is still pretty bad. The worst part about Voyager is that 90% of the episodes could have worked with any crew. So even the great episodes of VOY could have also been great episodes of TNG or DS9 - the concept carries the episode, not the execution or the characters. And then there are the bad episodes, which are not only bad episodes of trek but bad episodes of trek starring characters that aren't all that likable even in a good episode.

>>84461881
It could have been improved, half the cast stopped giving a shit later on, Robert Beltran came to hate his coworkers, the crew and the fans, and Kate Mulgrew hated Jeri Ryan to the point of mistreating her.

It was still far better than the first season- or any Roddenberry season- of TNG.

Everyone accuses her of stranding the ship, yet the alternative was to allow a dangerous race of alien fascists to have this array. Everyone whines about the Borg becoming soft, yet in their first attack on Earth the cube got destroyed by a fucking "sleep" command. At least they did more with the Borg here than just making them Cybermen ripoffs.

DS9 is superior though, even if the Jem Hadar have dumb names and are Sontaran ripoffs.

>>84463299
>acknowledging anything other than the movie

the TV show pretends it was a followup, but no. Ra was an alien gray with a + mouth in the film, not a Trill knockoff. And it was not "Sha'Re", it was "Sha'Uri"., fucking illiterate writers.

>Beltran wanted to be fired
>kept making more and more outlandish demands
>kept being given them
>forced to stay on the show

kek

>>84463299
Where do I start with Stargate? And do you think I'll like it based on my top Sci-fi shows:

>1. Battlestar Galactica (Remake)
>2. Person of Interest
>3. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
>4. Fringe
>5. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Also, Commaner Adama is also basically Janeway done better too, and I suspect that was intentional by Ronald Moore after how much he hated working on Voyager compared to his time on DS9 and TNG.

>>84461881
There are some good stories but the writing is incredibly inconsistent and the show is chock full of unlikable characters. Janeway in particular does some stuff that should have gotten her courts-martialed the second she got home but instead they promoted her to admirable, presumably to put her behind a desk where she could do less damage.

>>84461881
The earlier seasons are good once you get used to Janeway's voice. It starts going downhill after a while and they start adding a few cousin Olivers to try to freshen things up but it just gets annoying.

>>84464034
Stargate (movie)
Stargate SG1 S1-8
Stargate Atlantis S1 (overlaps with SG1 S8)
Stargate Continuum (movie)

If you like Atlantis S1 then keep watching, because it's just more of the same for 4 more seasons.

Under no circumstances are you to watch S9-10 of SG1.

>>84463943
>Robert Beltran was so mad and wanted fired so badly that he started making outrageous demands, including a pay raise, directing privileges and making Chakotay get a girlfriend
>The studio just gave it to him without a fight
>Beltran then didn't know what else to do and stuck it through

>>84464093
Also Atlantis gets littered with former Star Trek actors who had nothing else to do.

Robert Picardo is a recurring character, Chip from ENT is a major villain and Worst Dax shows up as a scientist in one episode.

>>84463361
>Kes already starting to look like a mental patient

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>>84464093
>>84464202
Thanks anon, I'll give it a go over the weekend

>>84464306
Good call. Do me a favour and promise you'll give SG1 at least 4 episodes. Ep 3 is literally the worst episode in the entire 11 year run and I'd hate for it to sour you.

Should I download and watch B5?
If it's actually a mix of 80% political intrigue + decent plotlines and acting and 20% of very outdated cgi - I'm ok with that.

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>>84464363
Your objections have been noted in the ship's logs and Starfleet will certainly clear you over the possible consequences of my actions.

And you can repay me by watching the Battlestar Galactica miniseries, you won't need convincing that it's worth continuing afterwards.

>>84464635
Okay, I wasn't thinking about that episode when I made the post, definitely an A-. I'm a /pol/ crossposter so it's obvious what I think it's referencing, what do liberals think it's really supposed to be teaching us?

>>84464374
S1 is not good, but there's some plot building in specific episodes

There are the big problems with Voyager which is why I hate it so much

>1. The reset button
This is the single biggest problem with Voyager. And I'm not just talking about having a plot reset button, like how every other episode we found a way to get home but messed it up. I'm talking a full-on, blank slate character reset button.

Take the episode I just watched for example, The Chute. Tom and Harry wind up on this alien shithole prison where they put these clamps on your head designed to make you irrational and angry, starve the prisoners and by the end of the episode, Harry almost beats Tom to death with a pipe.

And what's the resolution to all this? Harry literally says to Tom "dude...I almost fucking killed you back there" and Tom says "yeah I'm gonna choose to forget that" DOO DOO DOO END CREDITS LET'S JUST FORGET THIS EVER HAPPENED NEXT EPISODE.

This shit happens so much in Voyager it's infuriating. The Doctor gets two years of personal development reset for NO reason. One episode Janeway is a loving, caring motherly figure, the next she's a fucking stone cold bitch murderer shoving the Doctor out of the way so she can personally kill Tuvix. Janeway and Chakotay almost start falling in love on that planet? BETTER NOT EVER BRING THAT UP AGAIN. It just goes on and on.

>2. The Cast
The Star Trek franchise has this problem where as each show goes on, more and more useless, underdeveloped characters are added. The only truly useless character in TNG was Troi, and she arguably had character development and the stuff with her mom. In DS9 you have Jadzia (yawn) and Ezri. But in Voyager, holy shit so many characters that the writers literally do NOTHING with. You have
>Harry
>Chakotay
>Tom
>B'elanna
>Kes
My god, even the fucking Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek gets more character development than half the main cast! It really says something when you could replace so many characters with cardboard cutouts and no one would notice.

>>84464202
>Chip from ENT
You mean Trip? kek

>>84465338
Yeah, him too

>>84465317
cont.

>3. Technobabble
Technobabble has always gone hand in hand with Trek, but in Voyager it's ratcheted up to 11. It's like they just stopped giving a shit at all with how contrived and laughable the solutions they come up with are. And it's not just the implementation of the tech solutions either, in Voyager they cram in technobabble when it's not even needed in an episode's plot, like the one about Tuvok having that repressed memory that turns out to be a virus that lives in the brain's memories (what). The entire point of that episode was to get George Takei on and have a flashback one, without having to do time travel, right? So just cut out the stupid virus bullshit and have Tuvok actually have a repressed memory from his time there. Maybe he killed someone, I dunno.

This has gone on far too long, but in conclusion, Voyager has terrible, frustrating writing and a lot of bad decisions by the showrunners. The result is mediocrity if you turn your brain completely off.

>>84461881
It doesn't matter because jeri ryan had fantastic tits.

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>>84465385

Voyager has some good diamond in the rough episodes.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708990/
is damn good.

Species 8472 is pretty damn good. Q wanting to commit sudoku is pretty good.

>>84464851
I never skip anything.

>>84465317
>And what's the resolution to all this? Harry literally says to Tom "dude...I almost fucking killed you back there" and Tom says "yeah I'm gonna choose to forget that" DOO DOO DOO END CREDITS LET'S JUST FORGET THIS EVER HAPPENED NEXT EPISODE.

The final Tom's line could have been something like "I guess we're still only human Harry...".
If only Voyager had half-decent writers.

>>84465443
Species 8472 is lame, it was a last ditch effort by the writers to save the ratings by introducing A NEW SPOOPY AYYLIUM THAT CAN ONE SHOT DA BORG. There's nothing interesting about them. They're one dimensional; all they care about is Extermination

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>>84465399

>>84465536
Something, ANYTHING to acknowledge the fact that these characters can grow and change from their experiences. It's like Berman and Braga wanted it to be like zero fucking continuity between characters.

BBC America has be reairing this late at night, not sure how they justify it as British. The few episodes I've seen aren't terrible.

I'd put them right up there with TNG's mediocre episodes.

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>Star Trek?
>I fucking hate it.
>Reading the scripts, yeah, what the fuck is this shit?!
>I didn't even bother memorizing the dialogues.
>That stupid fucking shit.

Can you actually blame him?

>>84465842
Are those real quotes?

Is any Star Trek worth binge-watching from start to finish or should I just check the cool episodes?

>>84465897
It's worth doing, but it's a massive investment. Be sure before you start.

Then go TNG - DS9 - VOY - TOS - ENT

TOS is too campy for a novice, you need to already be invested, which the other series will give you. TNG is the most solid foundation; the first season is garbage but it is the best to build on. ENT has to be last because despite being a prequel, 50% of the storylines are based on knowledge of the previous shows

>>84465897
It's worth it for the shitposting alone. Watching all of Star Trek is a journey

>>84465897
It's probably best to take the bad with the good. If you only watch the good episodes you'll probably want to see more of the characters you like in different situations but you'll just be left with bad episodes.

>>84465877
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyF-ik2Cteg

It sorts of looks like he's mostly just fucking around but chances are this is all from the heart.
Considering that he continuously tried to get his ass fired from the set.

Not worth it buddy!
Watch Reaper or Peaks instead.

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>>84463823
>When someone's obvious fetish works its way into the script

>>84465385
I can never get over her wonky nose.

>>84465979
That's a good watch order

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>>84466112

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Reminder that everyone looks better in a Starfleet Uniform

>>84466511
T'Pol looks like a janitor though, lol.

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>>84466572
That's ENT's fault, not T'Pols.

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>>84466186
Mindswap/transformation/AGP is definitely the black tar heroin of fetishes

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Most of it was pretty bad but there were a few good characters

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Remember that time Voyager retconned the entire history of the Trek universe?

In the 1990s KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN was warlord of North America. But Voyager decided that 90s Miami was basically what it was like IRL instead, including surprisingly pretty Sarah Silverman.

My biggest complaint against Voyager is that they made their biggest enemy look like they were a cardassian scout ship. The borg were supposed to be the "supervillain" of the trek universe, They pretty much ruied any plot lines for the borg after Vorager.

>>84463823
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz8wXCNyqbM

>>84466850
>A youtube video of a camera recording of a youtube video
The world is a strange place these days.

>>84466764
>In the mid 1990s, the Augment tyrants began warring amongst themselves.

Damn. Everyday some new facts about those faggots (Breman\Braga) misdeeds.

>>84461881
The first couple of seasons were not that great. It gets better at around season 4, when 7 of 9 gets into the mix.

>>84463299
>Elizabeth Weir

She was so unqualified to command Atlantis. Weir was a diplomat. Why would you put a diplomat in charge of soldiers? Why would you send a diplomat to explore another galaxy? Why would you have a diplomat lead a war against aliens that eat humans to live?

>>84466764
>KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN was warlord of North America
Khan was ruler of the Middle-east. Nothing canon says he took over North America.

>>84466994
She was supposed to bump the ratings with her tits but her appearance actually improved show's quality a bit.
I really hated Kes and all her subplots.

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>>84461881
only good thing about that show

>>84461881
>I'm 7 episodes in

Every single trek series is utter garbage for the first 2 seasons.
Now that being said, Voyager is shit.

>>84467033
>Why would you put a diplomat in charge of soldiers?
Giving orders doesn't need you to actually be a soldier yourself. Most military officer's weren't before they were given command.

>Why would you send a diplomat to explore another galaxy?
First contact and whatever.

>Why would you have a diplomat lead a war against aliens that eat humans to live?
They didn't know that at a time and they originally didn't have a way back to Earth.

>>84467076
Yeah, it's just not her ass appeal. Her character is flexible enough to have a lot of great episodes.

I also hated Kes with a passion. She's boring and retarded and I'm glad she was booted off the show.

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>>84467076
time is not kind

>>84467033
A diplomat named Paul Bremer was put in charge of Iraq for a year (yeah he did a completely terrible job and his screw ups are still being felt today but he was put in charge).

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>>84467158
It's kinder to some

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>>84467183

STAR GATE
T
A
R

G
A
T
E

>>84461881
Yes. It does get slighly better once Seven joins, but really Voyager is just a waste of time.

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>>84467158
That's what happens when you let Tuvok guide your Pagh

>>84467349
SPACE POPE

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>>84467349
S P O O N E D

>>84467183
Best Dax has artistic 90s nudes

What does your little boy-bodied faggot Dax have?

>>84467349
>>84467357
Reminder that they left the previous space pope, along with yet another potential key to immortality, on a random planet and never bothered to visit her again.

>>84466828
The Borg were still menacing. Literally, the only times they had an advantage was because of some outside factor.

Destroying the Borg was kinda retarded, but all they have to do is time travel bullshit and retcon it in future series and it'll be all good.

>>84467445
Doesn't she come back at the end of the show though?

>>84467431
If you're gonna talk about how good her nudes are then fucking post them. Hi res only.

>>84467407
It was quite impressive how they managed to turn Dukat from maybe the best recurring character in Trek to the worst in such a short amount of time.

>>84467431
Cuteness.

>>84467492
fuck off nonce

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>>84467484
>It was quite impressive how they managed to turn Dukat from maybe the best recurring character in Trek to the worst in such a short amount of time.

And then they made him back into the best EVER again in the finale.

>>84467476
No?

>>84467476
No. Opaka never returns during the show's run.
Don't know about novels.

>>84467445
Those filthy savages probably raped her erryday. Did they have women on that planet? I don't remember.

>>84467476
Nope, we see her once or twice in visions and it's about it.

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>>84467431
Lets not fight anon, I'd do em both

>>84467474
>The Borg were still menacing.
Dude no they were not. As soon as they became quantifiable, i.e. "we know where they live and how many of them there are", they became just another Star Trek faction

>>84467639
Reminder that this was RAPE.

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Reminder that O'Brien used to be an officer

>>84467658
We know that they have a presence in the delta quadrant, but that doesn't mean we know exactly how many of them there are. Their transwarp hub allows near-instantaneous travel so who knows if they are in other galaxies, too.

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>>84467678
>rape gangs

>>84467678
She raped Sisko you mean?

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>>84467728

>>84467639
>ywn have giant Jadzia squish you beneath her giant spotted feet
why live?

>>84467522

I wish the final showdown between Dukat and Sisko was longer. They fucked up big time for being so rushed

>>84467734
No he raped her. The same way if you pretended to be your identical twin and had sex with his wife that would be rape. And don't give me that "oh he had to maintain his cover for the good of the mission" nonsense.

>>84467705
As soon as it's revealed in first contact that they have a Queen they became way less menacing. Voyager picks up on that and continues the slow degradation when it becomes established over the show that Voyager can take on a sphere by itself

>>84467786
>The same way if you pretended to be your identical twin and had sex with his wife that would be rape

Court of Nebraska disagrees

>>84467811
What the fuck does Nebraska know about other than corn and endless flatness?

>>84467838
>hat the fuck does Nebraska know about other than corn and endless flatness?

Marital rape apparently

>>84467786
She was willing, he was Sisko. Both enjoyed it.
This liberal bullshit of yours makes no sense.

>>84467886
All het-sex is rape. Hopefully the people of the future knew that

>>84467918
Did you just assume Dax's gender?

Yeah I know the mirror universe version doesn't have the slug and so isn't actually Dax

>>84467944
>yfw Kirk is literally responsible for the downfall of mankind in the mirror universe

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>>84467101
>Giving orders doesn't need you to actually be a soldier yourself

That's exactly what it means. The only civilians that can order the military around are the President and his secretary of defense, etc.

>Most military officer's weren't before they were given command

Military officers, besides being officers, are trained. A diplomat commanding soldiers is the worst idea ever.

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So, jetzt reicht's du dumme Ziege du drehst dich jetzt rum und bücks dich.

Und warum?!

Weil ich hier der Chef bin, oder wer oder wo oder wat.

>>84468098
Fuck off kraut.

>>84468062
that image is dumb

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>>84468138
Halt dein fieses Maul du wichser.

>>84461881
I've seen every series, Voyager is the 2nd worst.

It has some decent episodes though, Honestly I think it goes downhill as soon as Seven shows up

>>84468300
What's the worst?

Protip - if you say Enterprise, your opinion will be discarded

just saw paris and janeway have salamander babies together, while the crew being so accepting just shrugged as the babies swam off never to be seen again.

i could be wrong, but it's one the best things i've ever seen in a tv show

>>84468348
Not him but Enterprise was grade A garbage.

>>84468348
ENT

Although I liked ENT a lot more after they got done with the race who wanted to destroy Earth (forget their name)

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>It's a Neelix secretly jerks off into leola root stew pot again episode.

Admit it, you were sad when Neelix stayed behind near the end of the series.

>>84468348
fuck off retard, there's already a thread for ENT losers like you where you can circlejerk and whine about the other series

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*blocks your path*

>>84468521
It just felt too convenient

>>84462140
Funny thing is I think the complete opposite -

It starts out great, then gets tragically worse. The first three seasons had good stories, anything really past season for besides a couple of hits are pretty bad or painfully average.

>>84466511
Damn straight

>>84465317
the hard reset button really hurt VOY's 2-part premise where 1) space vessel transported to the ass end of space with the journey homewards taking decades and 2) the crew consisting out starfleet and the maquis - who were starfleet enemies

because the characters never had permanence in their characterizations like in DS9, it was impossible for the latter aspect to be properly fleshed out

and it sucks, because it's a damn good premise

>>84467748
LOL

I feel like at least some of the critiques with Voyager could have been fixed by making things feel a bit more ramshackle. Like if they would actually integrate more Delta Quadrant technology into the Voyager as the show went on. It would add some feeling of progress, explain how Voyager hit so ridiculously out of its weight class, and give them a good reason to explore strange new technologies beyond them just showing up on whatever the planet-of-the-week is. Hell, even some new power source or replicator technology to explain where all those torpedoes and shuttlecraft come from would have smoothed things over a bit.

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>>84468198

The picture is true. Feminized europeans are dumb.

>>84469258
It really feels like they just stopped giving a fuck right after the pilot. And then interns actually took over the writing department. A few occasional good ideas here and there provided by a random numbers generator and the rest is all missed opportunities.

Voy is alright.

Neelix stops being so annoying, and Kes fucks off somewhere.

It never gets "good" though like TNG for example. Even DS9 has a payoff if you have the autism required to stick it out.

VOY is like 7 series of those mediocre TNG episodes.

I still like it though

>>84469379
it's dumb because minister of defence is a useless role

>>84463361

This pic is awesome

Bob is classy as ever
Naomi became a real babe
Neelix in the back
Some nerdy fuckin funboy
Tim the bro
Garrett "world's sexiest man" looks like a failed extra in a martial arts movie
Then the tag along random crazy woman who escaped from the mental hospital

It's only missing fat Kate with spiky hair or Jeri looking all pouty

>>84466720
Why did they think we wanted to go in for a closer look at his feet?

>>84466764
>surprisingly pretty Sarah Silverman.
What an odd thing to say. The main criticism people have of her is that she's sexier than she is funny.

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Show is worth watching just for the Suder eps.

In fact I might watch one now.

Also Tuvok is best Vulcan and Tim Russ is a hero.

Later series had great Doctor and Seven stuff that caried the show, but they got a little carried away with it...
>"Captain, I believe I can modify my Borg nanoprobes to deux ex machina us out of this plothole"
>"Do it"

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>>84461881
>Is voyager really that bad?

>>84463270
/OurCaptain/

The doctor should have been erased for treason multiple times, the fact that he got away all the time with it while Paris got demoted and put in the brig for a month is even more insulting

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>>84469379
Btw, The Russian MoD is a corrupt to the bone (surprise!) faggot, ex-head of MЧC (sort of FEMA equivalent). Iran and China dudes are no better probably. Doesn't make any difference though.

>>84469675
>Suder
I sort of get why they killed him off. Where can you go with this character and not completely destroy him in the next few eps?

>and Tim Russ is a hero
what's his story?

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>>84464202
>Worst Dax shows up as a scientist in one episode.

Curzon? No wonder nobody watched Atlantis.

>>84469995
>>84470041

i c u

>>84469139
>>84469258
>>84469397

The essential problem with Voyager is that the plot premise can't work within the rules of Star Trek. The obvious point of a story in which an unsuitable ship is cast to the other side of the galaxy to fend for itself, with the mixture of personalities on board that they had, would be to depict a long-term eroding of their ethical certainties. They'd do what they needed to do to survive. The show nearly goes in this direction in some episodes, and holds back the rest of the time. It's a kind of fantasy of American exceptionalism - that Americans surrounded by a hostile and alien environment with no hope of ecape other than their wits would rather die than compromise their standards. Most weeks, the show extricates itself from having to cash the check its premise wrote by either copping out on the danger/unfamiliarity or copping out on the moral compromise - ruthlessness remains an option hanging in the air, never having to be taken. Then occasionally they break this, and the result is the "Janeway is a psychopath" meme.

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>>84466511
>Reminder that everyone looks better in a Starfleet Uniform

???

>>84470248
terrible arse

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>>84469921
>what's his story?

He's just a really chill dude that absolutely loves Star Trek.

He was so desperate to be in the show he's appeared all over the place. He would take literally any part. He was in the movie Generations on the bridge. He was in TNG in the Die Hard in Space episode where he has a speaking role and gets neck pinched by Picard.

Then he landed a recurring role in VOY and threw himself into it so hard he gave one the greatest Vulcan performances in Trek. Right up there with Spock and the dude who played Sarek.

Tuvok and Spock are like the archetypal Vulcans. The actress that plays T'Pol is hot but she got nothing on them.

>>84470248
BRAAAAAAAAAAP

>>84470285
>neck pinched by Picard.
When did he get that ability?

>>84470330
Picard worked for Section 31, before they were revealed in the series canon

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>>84469379

Also this isn't a European thing.

All those nations are pacifists with no immediate threat who take no foreign interventionist actions at all. The role is pretty much ceremonial.

Western countries that actually use their military have real ministers

>>84470330
>>84470356

Picard mind melded with Sarek.

That's my head canon explanation for the ability.

>>84469921
>>84470285

He also does shit like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ZRsf9sneQ

>>84470356
>before they were revealed in the series canon
Before they had been thought up, you mean. What was the on-screen explanation?

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>>84470449
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZPbX2x3Ug

also this

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>>84470330
*blocks your path*

>>84470512
Andorian milkies...

>>84470512
Who's the titcow?

>>84470404
Wasn't that the canon explanation? I remember him saying something like that in one of the episodes

>>84470512
>>84470285

Yeah, Russ is a cool dude alright.
I remember a few years back Dorn himself launched some idiotic campaign called "We want Worf" or "We want Captain Worf" or some shit. He wanted a spinoff show for himself. That was pretty pitiful imo.

>>84470366
>pacifist
but most of those countries are involved in military actions around the world
it's just that the minister has no real powers

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>>84470366
>pacifists with no immediate threat
>>84469511
>minister of defence is a useless role

No wonder Europe is being raped and pillaged by millions of muslims with no resistance whatsoever.

>>84470856
I really don't know what you think the MoD actually does

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>>84470856
#PrayForPraxis

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>>84470681
Fuck you it'd be better than Discovery and their Klingass

>>84470981
It would've never happened though and you know that.

>>84464521
dude camera shake lmao

>>84470920
>the MoD actually does

I know exactly what they do. Absolutely nothing.

>>84471288
but national security falls under the ministry of the interior

>>84470285
you forgot his best role

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3iFJpGJiug

Voyager had the potential to be an amazing show that would stay in the hearts and minds of fans for all time (for the right reasons). “A Year in Hell” is considered to be one of the series’ better storylines, but the whole show should have felt that desperate.

I had a long talk with a friend about this once: We could have seen Janeway’s desperate recovery of Voyager after its arrival in the Delta Quadrant. After pursuing a Maquis warship (instead of a small ship that Chakotay managed to salvage or whatever). With half of her crew dead, she would be forced to accept the Maquis as members of her crew, many of them being former Federation crewmen. With the numbers at 50/50, she has a dilemma. She cannot continue being captain of her own ship while Chakotay lives, but she needs his charisma (despite his shit actor) and soldiers to man the ship for the long journey home. Chakotay knows that he needs Janeway’s authority and legitimacy to make the long journey home as well.

So they would have to meet halfway, and Voyager would have two captains, something unheard of in Star Trek or in history. The officers would be 50/50 Starfleet and Maquis. They would have to negotiate each other’s decisions, and come to a consensus. Chakotay, a terrorist, knows the 75 year journey home is going to be hard and desperate and has no commitment to the Prime Directive. Janeway on the other hand is committed to helping every just cause on her way home to the Alpha Quadrant. Chakotay knows they might have to make some tough calls and maybe rob folks for supplies or technology on the way home. Janeway knows she must recruit new crewmen as they lose some on the way home.

>>84465573
>whitebois get qt wives
>want to watch them get BBC
>get mad when their wives dont want to
i dont understand you whitebois

>>84471722
{cont'd}

Federation technology is seen as incredibly futuristic, high-end shit. Phasers, photons, bio-neural gel packs, etc are cutting edge, and Voyager’s crew would have to trade away weapons for supplies as time went on, going against every Starfleet regulation.

And every episode, someone meticulously calculates the number of photon torpedoes left, looks at the screen and states how many are left.

Of course after a while they’d eventually get along after they manage several tough experiences. Chakotay could take a backseat to Janeway’s leadership or something.

Hey, what could have been, right?

>>84471769
{cont'd}

Eventually, Voyager would be laden with all kinds of mysterious and foreign technology from across the Delta Quadrant. They'd need this new stuff to replace old and busted parts. Maybe there could be some cool mystical stuff replacing things we've come to recognize and just accept on Star Trek ships.

Also the ship would be laden with Borg technology, and Voyager's crew would be hardened veterans of fighting the Borg and integrating their complicated technology into Starfleet tech.

When the ship returns from the Delta Quadrant, we'd hardly recognize it.

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>>84471752
thank god no woman ever lies in court or else this might seem unbelievable.

>>84471769
>they’d eventually get along after they manage several tough experiences

Including maybe one, at least one real coup attempt, please?
And every move has to be some sort of a compromise, a mix of trying to uphold the PD and getting shit actually done.

>>84471722
>>84471769
>>84471883
chakotay should have stuck his dick in Janeway desu

but really, I agree with you. it needed to be gritty, but not entirely pessimistic. somehow show that the federation ideals cannot work in every situation, but you must be realistic enough to see how to work around them. and also see when the maquis way of action can't work and work around that. find the common ground, make difficult decisions and so on. have the Voyager be battered, but working with new, traded in technologies. and on the writing and acting side, actually give your actors something to do, greate conflict between them, but also comradery and relationships. don't put them on the sidelines bc you want some who-cares alien fucks to stand out, they're the one-odd characters and they are not the ones audiences are going to follow every week.

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>>84472007
No fuck you. Alien of the week, Prime Directive, reset button. Where's my check?

The writing was medicre. But these shows were made by the characters. The only characters I liked in this were Tuvok, the Doctor and Seven - everyone else was either played by an untalented actor, or had shit lines, or both.

>>84471982
Exactly, a coup would happen at the end of the first season as a cliffhanger or something.

I like the idea of the ship having an officer's council at first, instead of a military hierarchy or something. Instead of a briefing at the start of a TNG episode or something, they'd have to decide the next course of action as a group. At first it'd be totally divided: Starfleet/Maquis, but as time goes on people's attitudes, morals, and values change and they vote against their own or "Switch sides"

>>84472235
{cont'd}
I feel like whenever there was a civilization or group that needed help, they'd be divided, but it'd be all business when the ship was on red alert. The minute something threatens the crew's chances of getting home, all the bickering is put aside

Shit would be intense

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Hakoochymoya. I am far from the bones of my ancestors, on a spaceship on the other side of the galaxy. But I'm also a spiritual member of the First Nations. I'm going to use my medicine wheel now, though a tricorder would probably be better. I'm going to heal you with herbs and guide you to your spirit animal, but also raise shields and reroute the power through the secondary ODN relay. I am a deep character.

All this talk of Voyager being a good premise but executed poorly got me thinking:

Come up with a GREAT IDEA for a Star Trek show, and then think of how it would be RUINED by hack writers and network meddling.

>>84472235
>>84472290
I think the Fed/Maquis thing would get tired after 7 seasons though, what I would have liked to see would have been an eventual merging of the two to form a crew that isn't quite starfleet and isn't quite Maquis.

PS - you can type many more words in a 4chan post before you hit the character limit. Stop breaking your posts up

>>84472290
I totally get you because when i first heard about the Storyline and saw the Pilot where they stranded in the Delta Quadrant i hoped to see excactly this.

But in the end it just felt like a Federation shio that had a very long Deep space mission instead of one that is lost and wants to get home before everybody dies of old age.

And dont let me remember how Borg were turned from the greatest menace you could encounter towards the generic Villain of the Week like that third rated Klingons aka Kazon in the first seasons.

>>84472404
>GREAT IDEA
The West Wing meets House of Cards: Star Trek style. A dark political thriller set at Starfleet command and the political offices of the UFP. Backstabbing, drama, political negotiations, brinkmanship, ruthlessness. Politics are IN right now.

It would be ruined by the writers turning it into an ayylium of the week show.

>>84472235

You got something there, how many people did the ship have? I could see the initial Maquis/Starfleet divide branching into factions as time went on. Like there'd be a "getting home is worth paying any price" group, a cabal of scientists "acquire any and all alien technology", a "morality" governed faction, maybe a group slowly plotting how to take over the ship and gas the kik-, er officers.

>>84472413
Exactly, around season 3 once the writing got burned out on it, they'd eventually become one crew with less political drama

I'm typing as I go so these aren't complete ideas I can just bunch up into a post, m8

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>>84472508
No, crew gets attacked by giant viruses. Fuck you.

>>84472490
>>84472508

And thats why the " Warship Voyager " Episode shows far better in what direction that Show could have gone.

If nothing else, Voyager served to unintentionally illustrate how much the Maquis were giant pussies for rolling over and accepting Starfleet command.

>>84472598
also the exact same thing happened AGAIN when they integrated the crew of the Equinox. at the end of the episode janeway was like "you all gotta be on your BEST BEHAVIOUR or we'll throw you out the airlock" .. we never saw them again.

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>>84472555
Hey that was a good episode because we got ripley Janeway.

>>84472628
Oh my god, I completely forgot that happened. I thought they all died or something. Fuck you for reminding me.

They should have kept the premise of the episode of when they got stuck in that void with no start with Voyager making allies during its trip home, by the end it should have been a flotilla of ships

>>84472508
The ship had a complement between 141 and 153, according to the Wiki

I like the idea of them recruiting mercenaries or something from the Delta Quadrant who absolutely won't get along with another race they meet somewhere down the road. There could be a lot of intrigue with these dudes turning Voyager against these other folks

Like a bunch of weirdos in a 4chan thread already have better ideas for Voyager than any of the actual writers did

>>84472670
There's a Daystrom Institute post on that, but as the top comment points out, that wouldn't have worked because Voyager was making a straight B line for Earth. Every ship that joined would have had to accept that they were going for the alpha quadrant too, which doesn't make sense.

Dark and gritty would have been the only real way to go. Enterprise season 3 was how Voyager should have been.

>>84472670
But most of them are just trying to get out of the void, not travel 60000 light years to the other side of the galaxy.

It really bothers me that Voyager didn't really leave the Delta Quadrant feeling any different. The only obvious technological upgrade to the ship since arrival was the ridiculous deus ex future tech in the finale. They didn't even bring Neelix with them, the only crewman to come with them from the Delta Quadrant was technically human. The whole situation is like an allegory for the show itself.

>>84472670
I love the idea of a super desperate Voyager crew encountering their alternate-dimension selves and seriously considering robbing them for replacement parts.

>>84472739
What about the ooze clone replacement of Harry Kim? :^)

>>84472719
> Enterprise season 3 was how Voyager should have been.

yeah that shit was great, it was like the braga and berman atoning for their sins.

>>84472736
no I mean a similar concept but adapted to be a recurring theme

>>84472747
>It's a Harry's clarinet reed breaks and he caves in his alternate self's skull to steal a new one episode

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPw8WIwgaxI
Was janeway a psycho?

>>84472404
My pet idea is a SitCom trek show that takes place in the old timeline sometime after spok disappears. The USS Hiroshima is dispatched to locate him in the debris of Romulus. Captain is obviously Wesley Crusher, brash, sarcastic, mommy issues. First officer an extremely emotional Vulcan with a flair for the dramatic, kicked out of the Vulcan Arts Academy, still competent with logic, just terrible with emotions and always falling in love with the Chief engineer. Tactical/Security officer a very gay Klingon. Uber-duber cross dressing, firey hot homo Klingon Warrior who is is as deadly with his Batleth as he is skilled with his rock hard cock. Chief engineer will be a no nonsense type, doesn't obey commands ever, does what she thinks best for the ship , even if some crew is constantly sacrificed. Medical officer is an android who secretly harvests organs from dead away team members to build a Frankenstein body for itself to inhabit someday when he finds the right technology. Admiral of the fleet is Vice Admiral Reginald Barclay who is always sending them on adventures and secretly hate/loves Wesley. Main enemies would be mostly comical in nature like tiny 1 cm tall aliens who fly thier ships into the Hiroshima to destroy it and the crew defeats the enemy ships by seating at them while getting dismembered by tiny phaser beams. Then to drive home the absurdity of turns out they were a symbiotic race with a gigantic space race and the Hiroshima accidently flew in side of the giants ship making the whole crew 1 cm tall.

>>84464635
Living Witness, as a stand alone episode, is on par with the best of TNG

>Chakotay and Janeway are separated on an away mission
>Janeway is critically injured
>Crew can't find them
>Crew is desperate to keep shit together without their two captains
>Chakotay torn on whether or not to just let Janeway die so he can take command of the ship
>Chakotay decides to let her live, she's too important to allow her to die
>They get back just in time to stop a full on civil war

>>84473044
>it was all part of Chakotay's vision quest
>none of it actually happened
>Neelix is serving leola root stew again

>>84472942
Such a great end to a really shit episode

>>84473083
>leola root stew again
This is what The Year of Hell was actually all about

>>84466572
She would have made a better janitor than whatever she was supposed to be doing on the Enterprise

>>84463248
He spent the entire trip getting drunk on antarian cider when no one was looking.

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>>84468693
*counter blocks your path*

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Fuck you guys, i think i might pick VOY for Tuvok and because i want to see Chakoomochey indian shenanigans.

>>84467431
>Self respect
>Purity
>A cute

E Z R I
Z
R
I

>>84475269
>Self respect
>OH FUCK ME WORFFF WAIT I LOVE ... Dr.BASHIR
>Purity
>OH FUCK ME HARDER WORF, BEAT MY SHIT IN WAIT I LOVE ... Dr.Bashir
>A cute
>FUCK YOU WORF, FUCK ME, WAIT I LOVE BASHIR. LOL WORF WHAT DO I SAY TO HIM HELP ME FUCK DR. BASHIR

>>84472747
ENT did that, but with an alien ship

>>84464635

Course: Oblivion was always a favorite of mine.

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>>84467431

>>84467431
>boy-bodied
m8 ezri had fucking great knockers and a fine ass
check out the baseball episode or when they're captured, anytime she has her top uniform layer off

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>>84478856
That's because she wears clothing to enhance that. She's always been really scrawny.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J43rKzlVlXE&t=5490s

Go to 32:09 and 49:20. She's beautiful but short and stumpy. The clothes she wears is tightened.

>>84462976
Wasn't there an episode where Voyager ran into another earth ship that was doing exactly that?

>>84465979
What about the animated series

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>>84461881
If you're seven episodes in, then you've seen "Eye of the Needle," one of the best episodes of the series and undeniably the best episode of the first season.

Pretty much the worst Star Trek show, unless the newest installment one ups it in shittery

>>84463823
That should have caused so many awkward moments between Paris, and Janeway.

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>>84462988
"Caretaker" is such an awful episode, I don't know if they could have made it worse they tried.

>>84463299
Janeway was a tragic heroine, poorly written, but someone who had to bear extraordinary burdens and make great sacrifices for a Platonic moral ideal. Voyager basically could have been written like the epic of Hercules. The most interesting episodes are when her principles are challenged in a personally intimate and quasi-spiritual way, like "Counterpoint" and "Scorpion."

Weir fucking left her husband a dear John video saying sorry going a secret mission can't tell you much good luck. No sympathy for her. Janeway was abducted. Weir just fucking left.

>>84482032
which is definitely will

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>>84470285
Just watched "Innocence" last night for the first time in a long time.

God damn all the Tuvok episodes are superb.

>>84468098
Speak American, not strudel runes.

>>84482032
Would rather watch VOY than DS9.

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The more Voyager I watch, the more I think "Scorpion" is underrated. They go real deep into the values of western civilization and draw a straight line to the Federation and the spiritual terror of the Borg ("the devil").

It took me a while to make the deeper connection between the Borg and the opening scene with Da Vinci. I mean he's making an artificial arm and later in the same episode the Doctor holds a severed Borg arm examining the microtubules. "Every blacksmith who has ever swung a hammer will thank me for this creation." But once you've made a disembodied human arm, what else can you make? A disembodied human? With a hawk's wings? Where will it stop?

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>>84483464
>All invention is but an extension of the body of man.

>>84470981
I remember having this dream right after DS9 finished airing where the Voyager writers shoehorned Worf onto Voyager to be a regular cast mate

I'm still on the fence as to whether it would have been good or not

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>evolve into higher being
>kidnap Janeway and fuck her

>>84483815
Your dream was real, you just mixed up Worf with Barclay. It's an easy mistake to make.

>>84479914
One you're done with them and the movies, if you really need more, then watch TAS

>>84469073
Are you kidding me?
The first season is a huge bore and stories range from stupid to bland.

The second season has highlights like the 37s and Threshold.
And I'm not being sarcastic; those episodes still beat yet another shitty Kazon or Chakotay being Indian episode.

>>84464093
>Under no circumstances are you to watch S9-10 of SG1.
Fargate has some good moments.
Bad Guys and Unending are great episodes.

>>84484300
The Ori don't exist and they never did, I have no idea what you're talking about

>>84484318
The Ori didn't bother me as much as the Arthurian legend shit.

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>>84483875
>salamander
>higher being

>>84484377
They were trying to recreate the magic of the early GOOLD stuff; ancient Gods before, Arthurian legend then

>>84484504
Dinosaurs perfected warp travel millions of years ago before humans even existed.
Reptiles are clearly superior.

>>84484522
The problem is that the latter feels like D&D LARP

>>84484617
That could just be down to Mitchell and Vala being shit

>there are a limited number of officer positions
>as a result Harry can never be promoted because there's no open slots unless one of the senior team dies
>Paris get demoted and BRIGGED
>well finally there's a vacancy Harry can fill
>nope, Paris gets re-promoted ahead of him

Why did they hate Harry? That was his chance and they fucked him over.

>>84484685
How is it Mitchell's fault he has to have sword combat with a knight?
Or that he and Vala are on an Renaissance Fair planet every second episode.

>>84484733
he fucked up on that episode where he got alien std and got a black mark on his personal file, he is never getting promoted
future Janeway would rather change the timeline than have him being a captain too

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>>84472942
#fuckchuck

>>84484785
>Renaissance Fair planet every second episode
That really goosed my gonads.