Has there been other shows with a extremely clear jumping

Game of Thrones with Tywin's death comes to mind

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this threads just now when I got dubs

>>84054879
GoT jumped the shark with the sand snakes pal

24 when Tony came back to life

>>84055025
>>84055077
>>84054879
These things all happen at around the same time. Around the time when Martin's story dies off and the shows crappy writers take over.

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well there was that one

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>>84055071
>>84055077

Happy Days... when Fonzie literally jumped the shark

>Armand's copy of swank

>>84055025
This. Tywin was holding the show together. Stannis was BASED in season 5 and carried the show that season. I always think of it as Tywins death buried the show and Stannis's death was the final nail on the coffin

>>84055025
As a bookreader, they BUTCHERED that death scene, they left out the emotional context and made Tywin seem as if hes begging for his life, also they left "wherever whores go" (bookfags will know what Im referring to) and that killd the moment

>>84055176
it's not like affc and adwd were actually good books, they are fucking awful and pretty much nothing happens. the show writers couldn't work with any of the shit he wrote, they did a horrible job of trying to write something on their own, but that doesn't change how awful the books are as well.

>>84055748
>that doesn't change how awful the books are as well.
What your getting at?

>>84055748
AFFC is unironically the best book in the series, The Jaime chapters were kino and are the best chapters GRRM has ever written. you literal pleb, i bet you watch movies based on how many explosions and car chase scenes they have

>>84055614
>BASED Stannis is /ourguy/ amirite guys? xDD

Fuck off back to r/ASoIaF where most of the Stannis cocksuckers are.

>>84055851
lol the jaime chapters are the only chapters worth a shit. everything in dorne is awful. brienne is awful. the iron islands are awful. cersei is ok.

it's terrible

I legitimately don't get Stannis hype, even before he burned his daughter. He lost most of his on-screen battles, is a shit to Davos, and spent a season and a half moping over losing Blackwater. What made him worth his hype?

>>84055982
Contrarianism and "telling it like it is".

>>84056079
I didn't really care for Stannis, but his part seemed most authentic to the medieval world the series is set in.

>>84056174
Yet he seems to miss the number one priority in any feudalistic society, have your lords like you.

His retarded "I'm going to tell everyone they're shit and they are going to have to roll with it because hierarchical order" shtick makes him by far the most inapt and idealistic King, even worse than Joffrey who at least had power behind him to back up his assholery.

>nobody gives a shit when the Sand Snakes kill Doran and Trystane, their cousin
>nobody gives a shit when Ramsay murders his dad
>nobody gives a shit when Cersei blows up her uncle
>nobody gives a shit when Euron killed Balon
Why does nobody care about kinslaying anymore?

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>>84055554
Can I see your copy of Swank Armand?

>>84055648
While I agree with most of this, I like that the show at least cut out the part in the book where Tywin shits himself after he dies and Tyrion snidely remarks that Lannisters do not shit gold. I thought that moment totally diminished the gravity of the moment in the book.

>>84056270
>Yet he seems to miss the number one priority in any feudalistic society, have your lords like you.

Thats not a character flaw, GRRM is retarded, Theres no way medieval lords would choose inexperienced young Renly over a proven and undefeated (to that point) battle commander like Stannis. Whether lords like you or dont is irrelevant in that world, military and financial prowess rules in that kind of world, no one likes the Lannisters, but the lords sworn to them obey them blindly because Tywin literally massacred houses to extinction for rebelling against him. Its not a popularity contest

>>84055648
The "wherever whore go" line was shit, and it's clear that George has no fucking plan for where he's going with that

>>84055851
AFFC was the worst book in the series. It's where GRRM started adding a bunch of literally who's and not much happened in the story to retain my interest. It's still a good book, but I think it's the worst one in the Song of Ice and Fire series. The best book by far was A Storm of Swords.

>>84056382
Renly offers them more and doesn't threaten to cut their heads off at a whim, while also showing that he can be ruthless to people who stand in his way (as he attempts to show Catelyn and Robb by crushing Stannis).

Tywin does exactly the same thing, with one hand, offer rewards for loyalty, punish those who stray from the righteous path.

Stannis on the other hand thinks that duty is its own reward, he's blind to feudalistic reality, and the fact that he is a "Reputed commander" won't change anything if lords don't get anything from following him.

You're severely underestimating the importance of diplomacy between lieges and vassals.

>>84055851
>Calling someone a pleb
>Reads ASOIAF

Don't get me wrong, I read them too. But pretending they're high art is cringe

>>84055025
Yeah that's the real moment the show fell apart, he was the main antagonist and they had nothing to replace him with. Jon was the only major character who wasn't going to have to eventually face off against Tywin and not at all coincidentally, Jon's storyline in S5 is the only one that seems to be universally liked. Tyrion gets hit the worst, for seasons 2 to 4 he's more or less the main character but killing Tywin and having him and Jaime stay friends ends his character arc, he's got nothing to do for the rest of the show but follow Dany around.

>>84054879
This didn't jump the shark, Stannis had been depleting his resources for years and the morale of his men was tapped to the point that basically all he had left were mercenaries and people who had nowhere else to go. And they got fucked, hard. He sold everything he had on a gamble against people more cunning and treacherous than he was and he lost.

>>84056382
There have been plenty of instances in history where kings or leaders who have lost the support of their lords have been destroyed or had their power usurped. Augustus Caesar was assassinated, King Charles I of England was executed by his parliament, and the war of the roses (of which a song of ice and fire is based) was all about lords loyal to the Lancasters or Yorks fighting each other in spite of the fact that their "duty" was to their Lancaster King.

>>84056642
>>84056700
listen, GRRM had a hard-on for Renly for some reason. Even Selyse's family pledged themselves to Renly over Stannis. It makes zero sense when their daughter is married to Stannis and the fate of their House is attached to the Queen. Im not one of those /pol/tards who sees a conspiracy in everything, but its clear GRRM was making a point of having such a suppsoedly likeable gay character

>>84055356
this. i actually loved this show since the beginning, and thought it could be the next nig thing to satsify my tastes after sopranos and rome. i did extenive analysis of each episode.

but when scene happened i couldn't believe it, i felt betrayed. i turned the tv off and never watched it ever again. still don't know how the show ends.

>>84056815
Season 5 of BB is fantastic, you should really watch it if you liked the show up until that point.

>>84056382
half wrong and half right
Realistically Renly would fucking NEVER have a shot at being king. Stannis would be the obvious choice to literally everyone but not because he was militarily formidable.
He wants to be king to do his duty.
Thats the part GRRM does not understand even remotely about how power works in a feudal society. Nobody WANTS to be king/queen the way people like Cersei do. So the fact that the entire seven kingdoms didnt rally around Stannis shows GRRM's near total lack of understanding of medieval politics. Guys like Charlemagne werent widely respected and beloved kings because they murdered and schemed their way to the top with cunning and backstabbing. They were respected because they did their fucking job.
The French Revolution was possible because the King wasnt doing his god damn job. Same thing with the russian revolution.
GRRM is so frustrating because if he just dropped his nonsense about how "realistic" and smart his books are i would be able to respect him as an author but he is just so off the mark with realism that it hurts.

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>>84055025
The end of season 3, and the end of a great show..

>>84056866
every women ever has wanted to be a queen.

>>84056790
Renly was always extremely charismatic and well-liked by everyone, and he made great strides in making friends with the more important houses while Stannis never even attempted to get supporters (he just assumed that they would support him because they had to). Renly understood the politics of being a king far better than Stannis.

>>84054879
>>84055025
GoT is actually really good at holding a show together after a major death, which other shows would have the balls to kill off their Ned Stark?

>>84056867
there's not one convincing frame i've ever seen of Clark actually "acting". she just looks like a little spic in a bad wig.

>>84056912
certainly not homeland

>>84056901
>understood the politics of being a king
Being a king isnt about being nice, its about governing the land.
Why the fuck would any lord EVER throw their lot behind a guy with L I T E R A L L Y no experience ruling?
Stannis could actually BE a king because he knows what the fuck is up. Nobody gives a shit who likes them and who doesnt in these societies. They were too busy thinking about how their rotting teeth hurt all the god damn time to scheme and plot the way GRRM thinks they did.
Theres a reason the Yorks and Lancasters both gave way to the Tudors after savaging each other in the war of the roses, and its because nobody wants kings like that.

>>84056846
what's fantastic about it?

>>84056790
Renly was 100% right, but he was never meant to be likable.

In his few scenes, he mocks a crippled girl, suggests murdering a pregnant teenager, bullies Catelyn, calls Brienne grotesque behind her back, and states he'll crush and kill Robb should he not bend the knee.

He's a pretty massive asshole, which doesn't detract from the fact that everything he does in the series is pretty much right.

>>84056997
Season 5 has really great character arcs for all of the main cast (and even some of the side characters it introduces). The cinematography is stellar as usual, and season 5 in general has some of the best episodes of the entire series. It's worth watching, especially if you've already watched 4 seasons of the show.

>>84056996
Renly ruled the Stormlands better than Stannis ruled the Narrow Sea desu.

Being king is about being good at ruling, not being good at winning battles, which is why Robb and Stannis would be shit at it.

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>>84055851
>AFFC bro
My nigga

>>84056996
My point about Renly knowing politics is mainly that Renly understood that a king can only rule if he's well-liked by his own nobility. If you lose the support of the nobles, or the houses (to use the terms of GoT), then you won't remain king for very long. Duty and honor (the virtues of Stannis) only motivate lords for so long. If the lords despise their king, they will conspire against him. That's what Renly understood. That being said, Renly was a shit leader in other respects (i.e. he sat around with his army that far outnumbered his opponents instead of utilizing the field advantage he had).

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and thank god it did

>>84054879
GoT jumped the shark with shirtless Ramsay.

It went from a very good adaptation to D&D's shitty fanfiction right there.

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>>84056846
>>84057048

>>84056866
Actually they addressed it.

Basically while Stannis would be the best choice, especially compared to pretty much everyone else (Cersei and Joffrey are psychopaths, Tommen was a wussy, and Renly was a spoiled brat who the Tyrells were manipulating), Stannis basically was a humorless type lawful neutral type who would have cracked down on vices and basically been an anal retentive tyrant who punished people for breaking any law whatsoever, simply because it was a law.

Stannis would have killed gambling parlors, the brothels, and all sorts of vices, harmful or harmless and basically created a dictatorship which was merciless and devoid of all pomp and circumstance.

And that's not including the whole religion angle which again, would be a HUGE dealbreaker.

It's why Renly had the support he did. Stannis would have overturned the apple cart, induced austerity, created a police state, if not a theocracy based upon a religion that said point blank "Convert or be burned alive", and made everything miserable and probably triggered yet another rebellion if not coup had Renly agreed to the terms put down by Stannis' last minute offer to surrender/support Stannis in exchange for being named his heir.

It's why Renly had the support he had. He would have kept the status quo under Robert, in a way that the Lannisters couldn't since Renly would have settled the war in the north and used the Tyrells to shore up a level of normalcy that would have kept the status quo.

>>84056912
I couldn't give a fuck about Stannis, but the series just seemed to drop in quality at that point. Everything became stupid at thay point and couldn't give a fuck who won and who lost after Stannis and Tywin were killed off.

>>84057134
>well liked by his own nobility
well thats the thing.
The nobility just wants someone who wont fucking bother them and i cant imagine a scenario where Stannis is less appealing than Renly with that in mind.
It depends on what you mean by despite. King John was despised because he was a god damn moron who had no idea how to be king and just usurped because "muh power" kinda exactly like Renly.
If they despise their king because he's fucking up their own personal lordships, then they will rebel.
Now who is more likely to fit the bill for both of the above scenarios of rebellion? Stannis, the guy who will rally an army together when necessary and fend off invaders and then fuck off back to the capital and do his fucking job.
Or Renly, the nicely dressed schemer who wants to be the king just for kicks and has a nack for meddling in politics and making an already convoluted situation (war of the five kings) even worse in a pretty much out of the blue grab for power for powers sake.

>>84057284
the things that GRRM imagines a king would be able to do are impossible.
Thats what im getting at here, is that REALISTICALLY stannis would never not be king.
Kings dont have the power you, or GRRM, think they did.

>>84057329
>made a convoluted situation even worse

Renly was the first King to crown himself, then Robb, then Stannis, then Balon. If anything, they should be blamed for making the situation convoluted.

Also, you can't seriously believe that Stannis will stick to himself and do his job when he's renowned around Westeros for harbouring grudges. Not a single one of the big players will want him on the Throne, and therefore he cannot be a proper King.

>>84057048
This. However for some reason /tv/ hates season 5. I think's it's honestly because most people see it as the best season and the contrarian autists here don't like that.

>>84055982
Stannis got butchered on the show.

In the book, they reveal that he is the one who set the investigation of the Lannister incest into motion plus isn't a religious zealot and just wants to avenge his brother's cucking and save the seven kingdoms from his evil as shit in-laws. The books also play up the fact that he was the real might and heart and sould behind his family, but he kept getting shitted on by Robert, who basically abandoned him to die in a siege during the rebellion and then basically treated him like shit while pampering and spoiling younger brother Renly, simply because he hated Stannis and wanted him to suffer knowing that Robert had all of the power and Stannis had none.

So there is the sort of woobie type deal with Stannis knowing Robert pretty much deserved to be cucked and killed by the Lannisters, but him doing his duty to his family regardless, even as Renly only gives a shit about himself and demands he be made king over Stannis because he's a spoiled faggot shit that only cares about himself and has been brainwashed by Robert into hating Stannis.

Also, the burning of his daughter is TV canon only and done simply to make people hate Stannis, as far as character assassination goes.

>>84057434
Stannis wouldnt start a civil war because thats not what an honorable king does.
In the context of the highly unrealistic world GRRM has created yeah Stannis doesnt have a shot.
But dont claim like thats what would really happen if actual medieval noble logic was applied to the situation.

>>84057453
>>84057048
What the fuck, am i in the twilight zone?
season 1 was great
season 2 was good
season 3 was good
season 4 was great
season 5 was an absolute disgrace, some of the worst television i have ever seen
season 6 was ok

>>84057523
>Stannis
>honourable

He didn't even bother telling his brother about the incest, mate. He's anything but honourable.

And even in a realistic setting, no one would follow the unliked brother following a strange religion that has pissed off four of the greatest powers in the land and who conveniently claims that his nephews are bastards and that makes him King, but who doesn't have anything to back it up.

>>84057329
I don't think the lords would trust Stannis, a man who cut off the fingers of his most loyal subject for stealing in order to save him and his army (Davos allowed for effort to hold Dragonstone to occur, the castle siege which got Stannis the most renown). If Stannis is willing to punish his most loyal subject for a minor infraction, then what would he do to the lords who disobey even slightly? The nobles likely would prefer a man like Renly who wants to garner their love to hold power over a man like Stannis who would sacrifice his own loyal subjects for the sake of honor (not to mention the fact that Stannis burned his own brother alive).

>>84057628
yeah this is what im talking about when i say GRRMfags know literally nothing about medieval politics.
NOBODY CARES ABOUT MUH POWER
Joffrey was an IDIOT and if even a hint of his plans for a royal standing army got out, or if he ever started executing lords like Ned Stark, other nobles would get rid of him ASAP.
Psycopath kings who could get away with literally anything didnt come around after the renaissance, which is decidedly out of the realm of history GRRM is trying to portray.

>>84057727
Exactly.

Which is why Stannis would be a shit king.

Eddard Stark being executed is literally the reason why Renly crowned himself, btw, nice job supporting my point.

>>84057662
Davos would be a nobody to these people but fair point i forgot about the brother in law.

But again, remember that Stannis doesnt exactly control every lord directly when he becomes king. So as long as they arent sending out parties to kill and steal shit from him Stannis wouldnt do anything or more likely wouldnt even know if they did.
Renly will screw with them for no fucking reason because thats the kind of shit these MUH POWER types love to pull, and thats way less predictable and way less safe for a noble than Stannis.

>>84057775
>literally the reason renly crowned himself
so fucking what? Wouldnt make him a better option for realistic nobles

>>84057821
>Renly will screw with them because MUH POWER

Have you even read the books? Renly is described as a more temperate Robert, not as a fucking psycho getting involved in everybody's buisiness.
>>84057860
Sure makes him better than either separatists, the boy Caligula, or his autistic brother who thinks antagonizing and punishing his vassals who are considerably stronger than him is smart.

>>84055923
If you don't like Stannis you're a card carrying normie. Is "Khalessi" your fav character hun?

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>>84056954
>watching homeland post Brody
How could you bring yourself to this torture?

>>84057048
Season 5 is one of my favorite seasons. Season 6 was dogshit

>>84057976
A schemer will always scheme
Renly didnt live long enough in the books to prove it.
people have been talking nonsense about how important it is that the nobles like you, but if a king doesnt like a nobel, which is a near certainty because people dont always get along, Renly is far more likely to act on it by fucking around than Stannis, unless of course the grievance is lawfully legitimate.

>>84058189
There is no season 6, there's only a season 5. Maybe you mean you didn't like the last half of season 5? I personally thought it was great.

>>84057205
I miss reaper. And now deadbeat is gone too...

>>84058163
Brody lived WAY past his expiration date

>>84057628
>He didn't even bother telling his brother about the incest

They had the shittiest relationship, Ribert probably wouldnt have even believed him. Stannis told Jon Arryn and sent a letter to Ned about it. He knew Bobby B would be more likely to believe his friends than his brother

>>84055961
brienne is literally just comfy travelling the stormlands with a dude called fucking dick crab
if you dislike the brienne chapters your just a fucking weenie

>>84056533
stannis is literally just a grim dude, he trys to be nice to his lords and listen to them when there telling him to attack storms end but he just thinks of them as braying horses. He always listens to davos in the books because he considers davos good counsel, one of stannis's biggest problems is the fact that all of his bannermen are consistently retarded, and most of the dudes following him love him anyway and think hes azor ahai and everything else lol.

what's with the boner for stannis i see everywhere? he seemed like a bit of a retard and was constantly fucking up and doing shit like burning his own daughter

>>84054879
SPOILER WARNING

The way the show declined after the conclusion of the Tywin/Stannis plotlines is truly amazing. I never realized how strongly they carried the show until they were gone.

how far along are the books compared to the show? roughly, i suppose, since i'm sure there's changes here and there

>>84061319
1. Stannis is, by the laws of Westeros, the rightful king.
2. He's the best candidate out of all potential kings
3. He is cruel but also fair, play by the rules and he won't hurt you
4. He's a little autistic and /tv/ identifies with that.

>doing shit like burning his own daughter

You understand the situation Stannis was in, right? At this point he knew about the threat of the White Walkers. In his mind, if he doesn't conquer Westeros right away, everyone dies. He's willing to sacrifice his daughter, the only person who he truly cares about, to save what he sees as his kingdom. It's insanely noble.

>>84061403
>how far along are the books compared to the show?

The show surpassed the books last season. The most recent GoT book came out 6 years ago.

>>84056347
>nobody gives a shit when Cersei blows up her uncle
tbf who exactly would question her about this

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>>84057205
That shot is way too similar to the iconic Lebowski shot and I'm not okay with it. Don't care if it was intentional, still don't like it.

>>84061319
Stannis is awkward in the books, but a very different person. He's intelligent, strong and has a cynical sense of humour that goes over most people's heads. It certainly went over D&D's, they gave Dillane practically nothing to work with.

>>84061414
i don't think so. seems like a simple yet dutiful man easily taken advantage of and led to his death by a sorceress. not entirely inept but certainly not a good candidate to be king

>>84057727
>Psycopath kings who could get away with literally anything didnt come around after the renaissance
Who is Tsar Nicholas

>>84056347
>nobody gives a shit when Euron killed Balon

who would? to most people watching, it was Weird Shadowy Guy killing Old Unlikeable Man

>>84061595
The introduction of the last Human villain. Done pretty well desu although it should have happened a season earlier.

>>84061634
isn't he going to try and summon cthulhu or some shit

>>84056912
They were just following the books. GRRM originally mapped out the story as a trilogy, and Ned's death was a crucial plot point that neatly ended the first act. Then he decided to pad out the middle part of the story with a bunch of directionless filler, which is why the character deaths in recent seasons have been so poorly handled, because they needed to get them out of the way for the inevitable finale involving Dany, Jon, and the White Walkers, which has always been GRRM's plan. Basically the story has always been working towards a pretty generic fantasy ending, and the genuinely interesting and layered characters were just distractions along the way.

>>84061789
how will it end? do you think the show will handle the ending differently?

>>84057284
What you say just makes me support Stannis more.

>>84057453
I've never seen anyone say it's the best. Even the normies who think this is the best show on television recognize that it's the weakest and that the sand snakes were garbage.

>>84061864
Jon and Dany unite to destroy the White Walkers, all the villains are killed, then they either marry and rule together with Tyrion as hand, or the North becomes independent and Jon rules as King in the North. The only variation of this that's been foreshadowed is Dany turning mad and facing off against Jon, but I don't see them doing that since Dany is the hero of the show amongst normies and it's been poorly set up with only 13 episodes left. The books may go in that direction.

>>84062066
His post was referring to season 5 of breaking bad. Season 5 of GoT was absolute dogshit.

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My favourite episode is probably 4x09 the watchers on the wall

What is yours m8s

>>84062191
you are wise

>>84062191

I basically need dany to go mad for a decently satisfying ending.

its really the only thing that could hold my interest.

somehow find out white walkers arent that bad, its like a treaty or something and jon needs to keep the peace between the whites and the humans the way he did between the nights watch and the freefolk. dany however will have none of it and wants everything in her way to die and jon has to kill her. i'd love some tinfoil jaime is the savior theory stuff coming true but i just dont see the show ever going there so this is the best case scenario and if it just ends with team good guys vs evil white walkers it'll ruin the entire show which thematically felt more nuanced than that... but im not holding my breath that it won't end that way and that worries me.

>>84055851
Good taste anon