Plain lo in the morning. Lola in slacks. Lois Lane. Mmm. Come

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>>83831561
You came back.
You came back.

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>>83831572
Boy, do we have problems up here! The problem of...Of evil in the world. Uh, the problem of absolute virtue.
>I'll take you in without breaking you. Which is more than you deserve.
The problem of you on top of everything else. You above all. Ah, because that's what god is. Horus. Apollo. Jehovah. Kal-El.
Clark. Joseph. Kent.
See, what we call god depends upon our tribe, Clark-Joe. Because god is tribal. God takes sides. No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations. Mmm. I figured out way back, if god is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good. And if he is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful. And neither can you be. They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands.

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>>83831603
>What have you done?
Hmm. And tonight, they will. Yes. Because you, my friend, have a date. Hmm. Across the bay. Ripe fruit, his hate. Two years growing. But it did not take much to push him over, actually. Little red notes, big bang. You let your family die! And now you will fly to him. And you will battle him. To the death. Black and blue. Fight night! The greatest gladiator match in the history of the world. God versus man. Day versus night. Son of Krypton versus bat of Gotham.
>You think I'll fight him for you?
Hmm, yes, I do. I think you will fight-fight-fight for that special lady in your life.
>She's safe on the ground. How about you?
Close, but I am not talking about Lois. No. Every boy's special lady is his mother.
Martha, Martha, Martha.
Hmm.
Why, the mother of a flying demon must be a witch. The punishment for witches, what is that?
That's right.
Death by fire.

>>83831561
>plain lo in the morning
is lex /ourguy/?

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>>83831665
>Where is she?
I don't know! I would not let them tell me! Uh-uh-uh! If you kill me, Martha dies. And if you fly away, mmm, Martha also dies. But if you kill the bat... Martha lives.
There we go. There we go. Hmm. And now god bends to my will.
Ooh, now the cameras are waiting at your ship. For the world to see the holes in the holy. Yes, the almighty comes clean about how dirty he is when it counts. To save Martha, bring me the head of the bat.
Mother of god, would you look at the time? When you came here, you had an hour. Now it's less.

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>>83831561
>>83831603
>>83831665
>>83831705

This is the best fucking villain scene ever put to film, and I dare anyone to contradict me. I got chills just reading it. Terrio is a genius, Eisenberg is a true thespian, and Snyder is and always shall be a god.

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>>83831603
>No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations.

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>>83831603
>They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands.

And to think Zuckerberg plans on running in 2020.

>>83832298
Thhat's Moot, you dumbass

So why'd he kill Mercy?

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>>83831603
>and abominations
What does that mean?

>>83834161
They show why he killed her in this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC46ZLC33hw#t=73

Lex is bathing in the glow of the Kryptonite thinking about how he's going to kill Superman, and Mercy walks up unannounced to share in his triumph. When he sees her he's shocked and then seething that she thinks she's his partner. So he kills her in the very next scene.

>>83834244
Messed up shit he did to Lex

>>83834244

there's a reason why this version is more femme than masculine

>>83834161
As an alibi. If his own assistant died while he was in bathroom, it makes his survival of the bombing seem coincidental and buys him time to avoid immediate suspicion.
:

Eisenberg was legit great, why don't people appreciate this.

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I get that the whole BvS love is a meme you reddit faggots came up with. but do you lads honestly not think that every performance in this film was shit, particular eisenberg, which is why people claim he should've won an oscar?

>>83834560
No. This is why >>83834283
Your explanation is the kind of bullshit plot thing that no one actually cares about.

>>83834652
nice memes, and "BvS is great" is not a meme

>>83834898
For half of the BvS posters, I really think this is the case. What a bizarre meme. But then again, Bane posting genuinely convinced people that TDKR was a masterpiece that surpassed TDK.

>>83831561
>Plain lo in the morning.
Based Lex is a Nabokov fan
>>83831603
>The problem of you on top of everything else. You above all
Is this the only real reason Lex hates supes in the film? Everything else he says just seems like an excuse

>>83835011
>What a bizarre meme.
It's not a meme, get it through your thick skull.

And yes, TDKR was above average and nobody thinks TDKR>TDK.

>>83835152
>Is this the only real reason Lex hates supes in the film? Everything else he says just seems like an excuse
Did you even read the speech?

>>83834652
Ah the old "liking BvS is a meme" meme

>>83835250
>Did you even read the speech?
Yeah, but it kinda seems superficial, compared to the rest of the reasons. He talked about his dad lovingly to the senator, when he thought it would work, to get something he wanted, then he turns his image of his dad around on superman, to try to get him to do what he wants. plus I think Eisenberg himself said that he was lying to superman on the building

I do find the themes of family and identity really interesting in MoS and BvS

>>83835305
>then he turns his image of his dad around on superman, to try to get him to do what he wants
He's not lying this time. Lex only confides his fears to his enemies, because he knows they're going to die.

>plus I think Eisenberg himself said that he was lying to superman on the building

one word: bullshit.

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The word "philanthropist" comes from the Greek. Meaning a lover of humanity. Uh, it was coined about 2,500 years ago......

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>>83835368
Gods and men.
Prometheus went with us.And he ruined Zeus' plan to destroy mankind, and for that he was given a thunderbolt. CHOOOOOOOOOMM!!
Hmm, that seems unfair.

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>>83835388
Books are knowledge, and knowledge is power, and I am...
No. Uh, um...No. What am I? I...
What was I saying? No.

The bittersweet pain among men is having knowledge with no power, because...Because that is paradoxical!
And, um...Thank you for coming.
Please drink. Drink.

>>83835152
Isn't it enough? Lex was always a petty fuck. He was never suppose to be a "I see where he's coming from" type of villain. He was laways blaming Superman for his own shortcomings.

>>83835460
>Isn't it enough
no, because this isn't comics where villans cure cancer just like that.

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>Man on the marquee!
Yeah, don't believe it. My father named the company after himself. He was the "Lex" in front of the "Corp".
How you doin'?
>Oh, really great.
Really great? Good. Good.
Uh, follow me.
No, uh, dad started saying that he named the company, uh, after his kid at investor pitches.
Rich old ladies. They thought it was very cute, you know? "Write checks for Lex."

>>83831705
>Mother of god, would you look at the time? When you came here, you had an hour. Now it's less.
Of course! That's not Lex Luthor, it's the Mad Hatter.
You fucking idiots!

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>>83835596
You know, dad was born in East Germany. He grew up eating, uh, stale crackers. And every other Saturday, he had to march in a paradeand wave flowers at tyrants.
So, I think it was Providence that his son, me, would end up with this. One of my rebuild Metropolis crews found it. Little souvenir from the Kryptonian world engine.
>What does a rock have to do with homeland security?
Homeland security? Hmm. No, no, no, ma'am, planetary security.

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>>83835609
>The fragment is of a radioactive xenomineral. We suspected it might have Bio-Interactions so we took the sample to Amriid, where they keep the remains of the Kryptonian decedent. And, when we exposed general Zod to the mineral,this happened.

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>>83835687
Profound biodegradation. Decaying Kryptonian cells. We concluded the mineral could be weaponized if a large enough sample was found. And then, among the fishes, a whale!
Ah! Lying at the bottom of the Indian ocean. Emerald city. Beautiful.

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>>83835711
Now, rocky is radioactive,but what he needs from you is an import license.
>And why would we want to weaponize this material?
As a deterrent.A silver bullet to keep in reserve,to use against the Kryptonians,so the day does not come, madam, when your children are waving daisies at a reviewing stand!
>Last I looked, the only one of those flying around up here was Superman.
AH, yes.......Yeah, but there are, uh... There are more of them.

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>>83835732
>The metahuman thesis.
Yes, the metahuman thesis. More likely than not these exceptional beings live among us. The basis of our myths. Gods among men upon our tiny blue planet here!
Now, you don't have to use a silver bullet. But if you forge one...Well, then, we don't have to depend upon the kindness of monsters.

>>83834161
Both >>83834283 and >>83834560. H e had logical reasons as well as personal reasons.

>"It's true what they say about little boys: born with no natural inclination to share."

>Lex who speaks of his father in both glowing as well as damning tones never mentions his mother, not even once.

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>>83835597
>Luthor saying Superman is short on time is vaguely similar to that one thing DC Comic Villain #2214 said in my funnybook! Of course!

>>83835011
lol no it didn't you fucking retard. It's the shittiest installment of the Nolan trilogy and I've never met anyone who didn't think so.

>>83835388
He doesn't say "CHOOOOM!" He shouts "TRUE!" and glances across the crowd to Diana when he does it. She looks visibly uncomfortable when he does, maybe even a little worried.

There's back story coming. It's dangerous to be a god in their world.

>>83835868
He's very sad and desperate. Always pulling that "meme" shit when in truth he's buttravaged nobody gives a shit about his precious MCU. Poor fuck.

>>83835954
no, I just rewatched it and he says CHOOOM and not "True".

And Diana looked back because Brcue was missing.

>>83835840
>implying Snyder wasn't setting us up for the ultimate Batkino since TDK which we will never get now because of faggot ass Goons and SRS CIA shills shitting on anything that portrays white cis men as powerful role models because of their bizarre fetish for turning the human race into a brown sludge.

>>83835954
https://my.mixtape.moe/sdhyak.mkv

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All this Lexposting is making me suspect there might be yet another nuance to Eisenberg's performance. There are no "hmmms" or "mmms" in his intro scene with the Senators, only conversational fillers like "uhh" and "ahs."

He's stifling himself from speaking all the things he knows.

>>83836098
I definitely hear an "r" in that exclamation.

>>83836540
He's not saying "Truth", there's an "O" in there.

>>83831603
>Boy, do we have problems up here!
don't know why but I keked.

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>The devil gets, as usual, the most florid dialogue, and Jesse Eisenberg dispenses it with exuberant intelligence. He steals every scene. In a recent interview in Le Monde, Eisenberg discussed his approach to the role:

>"Luthor becomes a character from Greek tragedy. At least, that’s how I approached it, in accord with the screenwriter. He only talks about ideas, which makes him a profoundly theatrical character. I can also play on a paradox: rendering this individual funny although he behaves in an appalling way, also showing him prone to deep depressions because of his internal conflicts. I did everything I could to theatricalize him in the extreme. I had read lots of the adventures of Superman in comic books, but it was impossible to draw on them to find a way to play Luthor. Too schematic. Too much of a caricature. I reconfigured the character as if he became in fact the center of the film."

>Eisenberg’s gleeful and inventive performance suggests that he may be at his best in a tight framework that restrains his physicality and converges his acting to vocal inflections and turns of phrase, gestures and facial expressions.

>>83836604
>Eisenberg’s gleeful and inventive performance suggests that he may be at his best in a tight framework that restrains his physicality and converges his acting to vocal inflections and turns of phrase, gestures and facial expressions.

Like The Double.

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>>83836601
I do every time. It's because he sounds so happy. Gleeful evil really is the best evil.

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>>83831561
>>83831572
>>83831603
>>83831665
>>83831705
>>83832090
https://my.mixtape.moe/feqlii.mkv

>>83837064
So do you think that Lex, his guys, and certain elements of the military had figured out a way to track Superman? I kind of do.

It could just be artistic license, but we don't have "radar" capable of tracking targets like they were tracking Clark and Doomsday.

>>83837334

They using Lois to track Superman.

>>83837394
this

>>83837334
I believe Lex had been keeping close tabs on anyone who was in contact with superman during MoS. When someone new joined the daily planet, he probably ran checks on him and found out that he was Superman.

All because of Lois.

>>83837394
Oh, I have no doubt about that, but at the beginning, they knew Clark was in-bound before they could see him. You could argue that they knew he was eavesdropping on Lois's meeting with the warlord for signs of danger, but in the helipad scene, Lex had to know that Clark was close enough to save Lois.

This movie is airtight in so many other ways that I think they're hinting at Lex having developed tech that really lets him track at least Supes, if not other metas. The reason I think that is because they could still track Doomsday after he crashed back down on Stryker's Island.

>>83837581
That's very easy - Lex has complete access to the Kryptonian Ship and its technology. He's probably using something unique to his traditional kryptonian garb or maybe has some other kind of tracking system. Or maybe he's just doing it old-school, using his Goons - like he did to kidnap Lois and Martha.

And the US government was using standard Satellite detection after the nukes (and during MoS for the World Engines)

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>>83837581
>they knew Clark was in-bound before they could see him.
That's wrong, though. The US Governemtn and the drones had no cllue it was Superman and Anatoly (russian mobster guy) only recognized him after hecollided with the missile.

>>83837581

There's an implication that Lex wasn't working alone. Lex and someone high on the military were working in conjunction. That's why the Secretary of State, Calvin Swanwick, knew about Lexcorp involvement in Nairomi's civil war by helping arming the rebels with prototype military grade ammunition and helping defend its leader with his militia, this when the US had proclaimed total neutrality in conflict. So Lexcorps was serving the US interests there. That's why Swanwick told Lois she wouldn't even be able to prove Lex's involvement in it despite having one of the prototype ammunition as proof and that she could very well end up being killed for nosing around and that he could do nothing to protect her.

So it wasn't just Lex that wanted Superman gone. Lex said as much himself when he confronted Lois at the top of his building.

We know that during the Nairomi's massacre that the CIA launched a drone when the Jimmy Olsen, the "CIA" guy, was killed, so everyone there could be killed, including Lois, to cover the whole thing up, despite CIA agents on the ground wanting to rescue Lois. Superman showed up then to destroy the drone and save Lois. It's only then when the militia leader, Anatoli, acts. He hears Superman sonic boom and sees him destroying the drone.

So my guess is that Superman was paying attention to the place because of Lois and any problem it could happen, like the launching of drones, while Lex's militia were just binding time and hoping Superman would show up looking out for any signs of his involvement. Or even someone high-up at CIA was working with Lex and that's why the order for the drones, to draw out Superman.

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>>83832090

You're retarded. Or autistic, sorry.

>>83837949
Wow. You sure showed him.

>>83831603
>>83831665
>>83831705
the rooftop scene was pure kino

>>83837880

For example, how did Anatoli knew that Olsen was working for the CIA? He was pretty certain of it. Lois was always a bait in that whole mess, but she was there for the interview with the rebels leader being aware of who she was and why she was there. The rebels leader accepted her and her purpose there. The rebels leader, more specially Anatoli, only acted when Olsen was ousted as a CIA agent. So Olsen was key for the whole mess to start.

And why would CIA give an order for a drone strike when a relatively famous reporter was involved and taken hostage, and their CIA agent on the ground, Olsen, had already been murdered? Specially when they had other CIA agents on the ground willing to go there and rescue Lois themselves? It seemed weirdly overkill and unnecessary.

In my opinion the whole thing was done to draw out Superman. Lois being there, Olsen involvement so Lois could be placed in danger, the order for the drone strike so Superman would be aware that something went wrong.

Not to mention with the drones out, something that would only happen if Superman were to attack them to defend Lois, CIA had no eyes on the ground and thus no way to see all the cover up Lex's militia did to implicate Superman on the massacre.

>>83837799
that guy was specifically notified that superman was inbound, and at the speed he was traveling and the time it took for him to arrive, he could've been literally anywhere in the world.

>>83835413
>tfw you write a character so pretentous and bad that you have to make him incomprehensible for delivering bland pseudophilsophical diatribes

>>83837880
>>83838014
you've put more thought into that one scene than anyone put into the entire script.

and its funny because the movie establishes (with a particularly clumsy attempt at humor) that lois has a photographer she always worked with who "olsen" replaced.

>>83838159
>you've put more thought into that one scene than anyone put into the entire script.
>explaining the goddamned script and how it was logical
>somehow he put in more effort than it took to make the script from scratch

I'm not that guy, btw

>and its funny because the movie establishes (with a particularly clumsy attempt at humor) that lois has a photographer she always worked with who "olsen" replaced.
?

>>83838097
You don't even know what you're talking about. You missed the entire point of the speech. He's doing it for effect.

>>83838086
He might or might not have been notified, but their intent was to involve superman in some way, and he knew it, and hence he would have anticipated it even without any explicit notification.

And more, the terrorist was in the middle of a desert and he probably doesn't have any easily-accessible wireless communications.

>that one marvel drone that constantly lurks these threads buttmad as fuck

>>83838159

Well, we know that the Secretary of State was aware of what Lex was doing in Nairomi. We know that CIA was using Lois to get closer and investigate the rebels group that was being trained, armed and defended by Lex's militia. We know that CIA agents on the ground wanted to rescue Lois after the CIA agent was ousted and killed, and Lois was taken hostage. We know that the CIA headquarters told the CIA agents on the ground to stand their ground and decided to use their drones to strike the place thus drawing out Superman. We know that Lex's militia leader had been waiting confirmation of Superman approach to start the massacre and cover the whole thing up implicating Superman on the massacre. We know that because the drones were taken out by Superman that the CIA headquarters ended up having no more eyes on the ground.

So these are things that were in the movie. The Secretary of State didn't even wanted to help or protect Lois, despite knowing she was right about the whole thing, that she had proof of Lex involvement, that she was in danger. Lois and Superman had been his friends. Sorta. There's a reason for that. Lois only went to directly confront Lex because she knew that the bullet she had couldn't be used to implicate him. That despite all her investigation and knowledge she had nothing against him.

So the movie implies very heavily that someone up high had been helping or at least was aware of Lex doings and doing nothing to stop him.

>>83838315
and the problem with all of that is the movie doesn't establish any sort of connection between lex and the gubment until after all that shit

Unless you're going to try to say all the lex scenes were non-linear, despite there being nothing to indicate this.

>>83838315

The fact that the militia's leader, Anatoli, was aware that the CIA agent had come with Lois to interview the rebels' leader, that CIA was investigating their shit, is reason enough to suspect that someone had tipped Lex that the CIA was going to be investigating his ass.

>>83838276
The problem with trying to say lex is doing it for effect is he never has any other set of mannerisms until after he's in jail, and even when hes in jail, he's still basically the same type of crazy.

>>83838380
There really isn't. >>83838159.

The fact someone who they weren't expecting arrived with lois means that person would be the subject of extra scrutiny.

>>83838358

This is something they could show in JL as a TWEEST. In the Iron Man movies will see the Ten Rings terrorist group working with the previous two movie villains without knowing anything about them outside of who they are in the comics. It's only in the third movie that we learned they were a fake terrorist group created by Tony's old pal.

>>83838431
At this point that would come off as more of a retcon than twist.

But DC has a long history of trying to pass retcons off as twists.

>>83838429

What if the guy was a normal photographer? Would Anatoli still murder the fuck out of the guy without reason? I doubt it. Anatoli knew beforehand.

>>83838462
They didn't murder him till after they searched him and found that that he was carrying a tracking device in his camera.

or did they cut that scene in theatrical and you, for some reason, only saw that version?

>>83838358
>and the problem with all of that is the movie doesn't establish any sort of connection between lex and the gubment until after all that shit
If you need things spelled out for you, you should leave.

Better pay attention instead of trying to feed your falcon.

>>83838389
>The problem with trying to say lex is doing it for effect is he never has any other set of mannerisms until after he's in jail,
literally confirmed for not watching the movie.
he's different at the party, then different when trying to negotiate for Zod's body, then threatening when the senator tells him about the piss jar, then again serious as fuck when he's interacting with the computer inside the ship, scared and vengeful when superman comes back without batman's head, then different againat the end, different when he's being lasered by the military.

>>83838462
True, because he was the only expendable resource there with Lois (whom they don't have the permission to kill)

>>83831561
>>83831603
>>83831665
>>83831705

I unironically enjoy his stream-of-concious rambling, the way he connects dots to form a narrative.

>>83838502

Yes, they only murdered him after searching him and finding out he was an agent. Buuut what if he had been just a normal photographer? That's what i'm asking. Lois life wouldn't be in danger then and thus Superman would have no reason to be there. Thus Lex whole scheme would be for nothing.

I still hold that Anatoli knew beforehand that Jimmy was an agent.

>>83838505
>when you accidentally respond to a tripfag, argue him into a corner, and he has to double-down and autistically meme to save face because he thinks anyone pays attention to him

...

The problem with your gubment/lex interpretation is the movie specifically establishes a point in the narrative when gubment gets in bed with lex. So unless literally all of lex's scenes were out of order with the rest of the movie, despite there being nothing to indicate this, then this scene served zero purpose, if the audience was already supposed to guess (by way of making inferences that require ignoring huge amounts of what the movie establishes) that gubment <3 lex.

>>83838548
>dude what if they searched olsen and found nothing to indicate he wasn't a journalist would they kill him???

>I say they would've!!

are you stupid

>>83837799
>That's wrong, though. The US Governemtn and the drones had no cllue it was Superman and Anatoly (russian mobster guy) only recognized him after hecollided with the missile.

Nah, the audience is shown that Anatoly knew something was coming. He looks to the sky, then turns his head, revealing he's wearing an earpiece.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=skZbdZABKi4

Then we find out that Anatoly and his mercs know it isn't a "what," but a "who."

>"Quickly! He's coming!"

Lex's guys were tracking him somehow. Also, something I'd like to point out is that so far, they've avoided breaking physics by letting super-hearing function in ways where he's hearing sound before the sounds have time to reach him, so Superman has a response radius of sorts. He's fast as hell, but sound isn't.

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Lex doesn't need to have been tipped by someone higher up, though.

Lexcorp is basically Facebook + Google in this cinematic universe. We knew he had dealings with the military. Pic related. The goverment could very well use Lexcorp's tech and programs for their acts of surveillance and espionage, giving Lex access to anything they did.

Lex, after all, had videos of S.T.A.R. labs classified experiments where Dr. Stone used a alien magical cube to save his son's life. He wouldn't be able to acquire these things if his company was a mere normal company.

>>83837880
I think we're going to find out Lex is involved with Waller and Project Argus.

>>83838548
>I still hold that Anatoli knew beforehand that Jimmy was an agent.

Oh, I absolutely believe that. Lex's mercs were probably the guys who brokered the meeting in the first place.

Is there anyone in film history that gets blown the fuck out by his own words as much as Lex? I swear every line is basically Terrio indirectly setting the stage of his words backfiring immensely on him. "A demon's mother deserves death by fire".

>>83838650
the movie doesn't establish anything about how superman knows lois is in trouble or why this ability to protect his pussy somehow doesn't work when the plot needs it to not function.

other than the idea that lois is the telepathic one.

>>83838617
>The problem with your gubment/lex interpretation is the movie specifically establishes a point in the narrative when gubment gets in bed with lex. So unless literally all of lex's scenes were out of order with the rest of the movie

The government isn't one single, unified entity.

>>83838617

>The problem with your gubment/lex interpretation is the movie specifically establishes a point in the narrative when gubment gets in bed with lex.

Not really. Lex got in bed with the senators involved in the Superman Committee, because he could get with them the government deal to study the kryptonian remains.

>>83838754
movies usually aren't that clumsy and overt with foreshadowing, no.

but I guess its slowly being proven that people don't actually like subtlety or grace.

>>83838784
>>83838778

>senators having more power and influence over top secret matters than the CIA

so you just have to ignore everything about the real world for this movie to make sense, gotcha

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Guys why does Lex blow up Congress. I don't understand the rationale.

If he was trying to implicate Superman, that seems like a real fucking stretch. Superman's powers do not include exploding.

If he was just getting revenge on Congress critic Peace Tea, he could have done it in a way that wouldn't possibly lead back to him.

So why was he doing it? He had already accomplished his goal of getting the kryptonite into the US and ultimately Batman's possession.

>>83838854
but dude 9/11 lmao

>>83838789
Spare us your artistic sensibilities. I guarantee that everything you're shitting on someone else pointed out you, so now it's obvious, huh?

Fucking pseudo.

>>83838854

i think it was to push batman over the edge, but yeah makes no sense since supes not responsible for it.

>>83838924
>dude no one understood the movie except me xd
>because I can't understand a difference between "understand" and "like."

...

>>83838854
this is a movie where one of the central plotlines was lex luthor attempting to frame superman for a massacre in africa. Where the narrative he was pushing was superman flew to africa, shot people with special bullets, and set them on fire with flamethrowers.

>>83838854
Because it not only eliminated literally everyone who had the slightest idea of what he was planning, but also put Superman front and center of yet another controversy, making him look like being a danger by simple virtue of existing.

>>83838854

He knew senator Finch suspected him of foul intent, he had lost the fake witness key for pining Superman for the Nairomi massacre (so the whole hearing was going to go up in smokes if she decided to testify she lied), and he knew the Keefer dude (the wheelchair dude) had been jailed for breaking laws to show his hate for Superman. Lex also didn't wanted Superman to speak his mind. He just wanted to turn everyone against Superman.

So by blowing up the capitol during the hearing and pining the blame on the wheelchair dude, he could at least blame Superman involvement and inability to act for the deaths, since the guy only blew up the place because he blamed Superman for his shitty life and Superman failed to save everyone around him yet again.

>>83838996
>dude whenever the pope goes anywhere people lose their mind!
>the pope is dangerous!

...

>>83838983
The secret bullets thing is unknown to everyone except Lois Lane and maybe, Superman (why she hides it in the bathtub scene I do not know. He has fucking xray vision bitch).

The whole bit with the burned bodies is a stretch but the eyewitness testimony makes it hard to discredit out of hand. Maybe he went loco on those asshole warlord guys.

>>83838983

Lex's militia dug out the special bullets from the bodies.

>>83838983
No it isn't. It's taking advantage of pictures and bought testimony, not actual forensics, because that shit isn't going to happen in a war zone.

>>83839030
unless you're lois lane of course.

>>83839030
even from an image its pretty easy to tell the difference between "shot and set on fire" vs "burned alive" or even "personally pulverized by superman and then set on fire."

Not to mention the movie establishes superman's eyebeams don't just set things on fire, they completely disintegrate just about any material.

>>83839041

Lois still couldn't use the one special bullet she found as proof of anything. The Secretary of State said so to her. No one would back her up because what she knew and had in her hand could implicate the US in a war the US had proclaimed total neutrality in. He couldn't even protect Lois if someone decided to kill her for it.

>>83839002
>>83838996
Ok but it still seems like a really asinine way to make a point. In the end it all boils down to Lex is an asshole and he stands to lose everything, and does.

I appreciate them trying to make a compelling narrative in a realistic setting instead of the adolescent Marvel narratives where government is this amorphous entity that doesn't behave like the real US govt at all.

>>83839086
which just came off as absurd considering how the US was investigating the incident as well.

If the movie were remotely logical, the next line would've been "so senator sharpe would have no interest in this? that's kinda odd. Who's writing this crap?"

Its almost like holly hunter and amy adams were in different movies, as they never once encounter each other.

>>83839104
but the in the DCEU the government is also an amorphous entity that doesn't behave like the real US govt at all.

>>83838817
I don't have a problem with elected officials having that much influence over a project that is that public, but then again, I'm not an autist dead-set on nitpicking every little detail, no matter how trivial.

I know, right? Go fucking figure.

>>83839133

Do you believe all the institutions of the government are aware of each other's doings? You can't be that naive.

>>83831561
>>83831572
>>83831603
>>83831665
>>83831705

DC = Depth (in) Cinema

It's in the fucking name. This shit writes itself

>>83839041
Christ, you're fucking dumb. We're all collectively dumber by virtue of your existence.

>>83839154
>autistic person who will happily put more thought into filling a single plothole than went into the entire script calling others autistic

...

>>83839165
considering the superman investigations were the public face of the government, that's kinda a weird claim to make.

Unless like I said, amy adam's and holly hunter were in two completely different movies that just kinda got edited together.

>>83838959
This comment in no way connects to what was being discussed. I wouldn't expect you to"understand" that either.

>>83839152
It gets a little convoluted at the end but aspects of it were certainly on point. The government has a tenuous relationship with Superman at best but they seem to acknowledge turning America into a warzone isn't worth it since he's basically invincible. So they twist his arm via other ways like compelling him to clear the air in a hearing.

It's more nuanced than "Hail Hydra" which smacks of Bilderberg-type conspiracy theories.

>>83839154

Right? The Scout Ship was in the middle of Metropolis. It couldn't be moved. Everyone and their mother knew that site had a fucking alien ship there. It was a thing of public knowledge. So most of the studies and experiments being conducted on it and other alien remains from the battle were a matter of public knowledge.

It's not the same as the US government hiring a fucking American company to arm and defend a group of rebels in a foreign civil war the US had proclaimed no involvement in.

>>83839227
would something along the lines of
>anyone who doesn't like what I like is the dumb
have a better chance of gelling with your mindset?

>>83839243
and now we're in the nitty-gritty of implications surrounding anyone being able to twist superman's arm or compel him to do anything he doesn't want to do. Things that only ever work in the narrative because the writer needs it to.

>>83839257

Lex wanted involvement on the first, thus why he had to beg senators for it.

Lex involved on the second, with the Secretary of State being aware of it, and he wanted to keep that a secret, just as much as the Secretary of State also did.

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>>83839165
>You can't be that naive

Oh, but he can be, Superbro. He can be.

>>83839334
so now we're trying to say secretary of state has less power than a senator

>>83839372

One was a very public scientific study, the second was shady government shenanigans.

>>83839174
Detective Comics. And they've actually given Bruce Wayne a conspiracy to unravel.

>>83839365
you're responding to the end of a reply chain basically asking why lois lane never talked to holly hunter.

>>83839257

why didnt superman just move the scout ship out of the city to some place where only he can go.
i mean you would think he would be interested in it considering all the information that is stored there, or maybe talk to his real dad form time to time.

also why does superman didnt care what happened to zods body

>>83839320
Superman can always fuck off to his Fortress of Solitude, that is a thing. These movies are about Superman trying to do the right thing by inserting himself into human affairs. Since he's literally invincible he needs to be willing to play ball with the Top. Men. if he's going to be accepted and not the subject of a persecutorial propaganda campaign.

But there is the question of, is Superman a magnet for more bullshit in the future? In the end a promising guy like Lex commits multiple felonies and gets life in prison because he honestly sees Superman as a threat. How long until the next Lex? How long until another impossible threat like Doomsday? It's all well and good if Superman can win, but if he lost that fight it would be lights out for humans.

I want to see where they're going with Superman since he's ostensibly "dead" which implies maybe he will withdraw from the public, and how that's going to gel with him as leader of JL.

>>83834652
kys

>>83839407
If you want to get into realism in how government functions, acting like scientific investigation of alien technology would be left to transparent public entities is just about the opposite of that.

There would be a public face that does nothing but release press dockets and a non-public face under tighter control that does the actual work.

So lex begging the public face of the project for access to the private face of the project just further comes off as idiotic.

But the movie does ignore this fact of government works for whatever reason.

>>83839417

Lois didn't had all the pieces. What would she bring to Senator Finch? Vague suspicions? Lois first had to investigate the bullet and after she had the pieces she went to the Secretary of State, someone higher up and also an old friend. This one the same day of the capitol bombing.

Basically, Lois didn't had the chance to meet senator Finch with her findings.

>>83839009
Are people blowing themselves up around him?

>>83839438

The government probably told him to fuck off and that he had no access to it since it was in American soil and thus belonged to the American government.

>>83839498
>hey finch, I've got this bullet that was found inside of one of the people that people are claiming superman killed

>also we've got all this video of any time superman uses his eyebeams, shit just disintegrates, rather than burns

The point is the bullet and where it came from was a million times harder than any of the other evidence finch was going to have to sift through.

>>83839409
The acronym "DC" doesnt really stand for anything at this moment. I dont see any reason why it shouldnt be open to interpretation

>>83839489
The government can get away with a lot of shit but it's still composed of individuals who can and do leak to the press. If there was a clandestine government program at the heart of the alien crash site, it's hard to imagine an organization as inept at the US govt keeping it a secret.

That said I think they would still be incredibly obstructionist to most attempts at private interests getting their hands on the toys. Not sure how one Congress critter can swing that.

>>83839559
and now we're randomly shifting between the DCEU government being inept and simultaneously competent.

>>83839489
I can't believe that you're arguing this when the entire movie and at least one other specific plot point revolves around Lex understanding how important image is.

Of course he'd seek a rubber stamp from the public face of the project. He did the same thing with the Kryptonite - sought rubber stamp approval for something he absolutely planned on doing anyway.

If you're that "het up" to nitpick something, why don't you try something more your speed? I suggest Captain Underpants.

>>83839581
I never said competent, I argued it was nuanced and more like the real government than the one in the MCU. The real government is famously inept at pretty much everything, including a lack of communication between the branches.

Shit, if you'd turn on the news you'd know there's a controversy brewing over Trump and Comey's testimony, and the government is, surprise, doing a poor job of handling what looks like a clear case of Trump lying his ass off.

>>83839559

>That said I think they would still be incredibly obstructionist to most attempts at private interests getting their hands on the toys.

They had been studying and testing the Scout Ship and Zod remains for one or two years, i forgot the time-frame, without major breakthroughs. The first breakthrough happened when Lexcorp gave the sliver of kryptonite the company found in Metropolis to... what was the name? Forgot. Lexcorp gave in good faith to the people aligned with the government that were studying Zod's remains and together they found out the kryptonite sliver could damage Zod's remains.

That's how Lex gained enough cloth to call the senators and expose his case. Basically, the gov was stuck and Lexcorp was willing to help them out.

>>83834244
The girl takes shits

>>83839610
>ctrl+f
>het up

...

moving on from that obvious bit of autism...

so now we are saying there were public and clandestine operations on the alien crash site.

and to just annihilate your feeble attempt at a counter argument, the rubberstamp would come from the clandestine facet through the public facet. Directly interfacing with the public facet would result in nothing but run-around. As that is how such things are designed.

>>83839535

why would he listen to them, especially since he knew thast there was something in the ships (they kryptonian atmosphere thing) that weakened him in mos.
so you would have to think he would be interested in it etc.

>>83839661
>That's how Lex gained enough cloth to call the senators and expose his case. Basically, the gov was stuck and Lexcorp was willing to help them out.
See, I like this, because it actually gives a reason for the govt getting in bed with Lexcorp.

Unfortunately this makes it all the more perplexing when Lex's first reaction to getting blocked by Congress is to blow them up instead of working other angles. Government is leviathan and he literally does exactly this moments after pitching Peach Tea.

>>83839661
>2 years of study of two huge alien ships

>only lex manages to find kryptonite
>only lex asks "kryptonite + kryptonian = ??"

this bugs me almost as much as batman doing nothing but brooding angrily for 18 months.

>>83839547
All that hinges on Finch even knowing about the bullets in the first place. But here's the thing: even without them, she was about to lower the boom on Lex anyway, based off the "witness" recanting on her testimony.

>>83839670
Not just shits. It's like chemical warfare when she sits on the throne.

The prettiest ones have the fucking worst poops.

>>83835388
Snyder's playing 5D chess. He was setting up Wonder Woman's backstory with what seemed like Luthor sperging out in front of a crowd.

>>83839756
which just came off as the writers wanting to wrap up that plotline as quickly as possible before the big fite.

>>83831603
>I'll take you in without breaking you. Which is more than you deserve.
Even superman's one liner is too twisted

>>83838756
Simple, if you know your girl is in Africa you could hang around the Mediterranean. He pays attention to her when he believes she in in danger, or when he is searching for her. The only moment that is a plot hole is when Lex throws her. But that is to be expected from a superman movie.

I actually began to give Eisenberg a little more respect for reading all these

>>83839675
>so now we are saying there were public and clandestine operations on the alien crash site.

No. You were. Here:

>>83839489

And now you're backpedaling and trying to act like you're not the most idiotic contributor to this discussion.

>>83839738

>Unfortunately this makes it all the more perplexing when Lex's first reaction to getting blocked by Congress is to blow them up instead of working other angles. Government is leviathan and he literally does exactly this moments after pitching Peach Tea.

Lex was losing control of the situation. The big breakthrough for the government hearing against Superman was the Nairomi massacre. That's the one incident that helped make the mass public and media start to doubt Superman intentions. That's the one thing that got the ball rolling on the Superman controversy and the whole thing was dependent on a key witness of the whole thing, a fake witness bought up by Lex and had just managed to escape his clutches.

So since he knew senator Finch suspected him of wanting to use the kryptonite rock for foul intentions and not for mere study and deterrent, and also that senator Finch actually was a honest women in search for the truth in regard to Superman intentions and not merely a senator wanting to fuck with Superman for egotistical reasons, and since senator Finch's hearing depended heavily on the Nairomi shit... well, something had to be done about it.

>>83838854
It involves superman in yet another controversy. And makes superman feel like shit before failing to stop it.

>>83839789
4U

They handed you a Michelangelo and you insist it's toilet paper for the simple reason that it can be ripped and flexed. Your asspain is still quite apparent to all concerned, though.

>>83839982
And the whole massacre wasnt about people thinking superman was to blame, it was that superman intervention made the rebels kill the locals. The mercenaries burn the bodies so locals and the warlord men are assumed to be the same.

>>83832090

:D

>>83839755
Kryptonite was found, and they say the India piece is the first relevant sized piece.

>>83839555
It stands for detective comics. Deal with it.

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>>83840389

>>83840473
And?

Butthurt superfag, I'm sorry but DC means detective comics.

>>83840498
And I bet you use the ATM machine as well

Ass to Mouth?

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All these shitposters nitpicking BvS has made me realized the film is way more thought through than I initially thought.

Thanks for making me enjoy the film more! Without you I wouldn't have thought about the smaller nuances.

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LEX GLUMPFOR

>>83838854

Lex puts Superman in a position where he can't possibly save the day to lay further groundwork for discrediting him and proving he's not the omnipotent god character that everyone thinks he is. It's not about laying the blame on Superman, just to get people saying "Why didn't Superman do something?". He does it in such a way that it ties up other loose ends and keeps all the major players distracted for a while because it's convenient.

You know, for all the problems turning Lex in to Joker-lite was, at least they wrote the insane ramblings in a believable way. I genuinely believe, through his dialogue and actions, that the Lex character is unhinged.

>>83831705
>If you kill me, Martha dies. And if you fly away, mmm, Martha also dies. But if you kill the bat... Martha lives.
I really REALLY wish they filmed the scene where he tries to find his mom

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>>83840722
Jesse Eisenberg is an immensely talented actor. Everyone should see pic related if they haven't, if you like him even a little bit and especially if you think he's a meme.

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>>83840389

so detective comics comics?

>>83840722

The same problem applies here as applies to the other main characters. I don't think people actually have a problem with the characters portrayed in the movies, their problem comes from their preconceptions of the characters from the comics/pop culture in general, and they generalise their issues across the movie as a whole. It's sad, if you present someone with an Elseworlds book in which the characters act unlike their usual selves these people have no problem saying "It's a separate canon so it's OK", but when you try to tell them Snyder's movies are also in their own canon they just refuse to accept it.

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Jesse Eisenberg didn't miss a line.

Fucking amazing, and amazing that he got the raspberry for this.

>>83840790
I wish that the film was 4.5 hours long too (With nightmare scenes for lois, clark, lex and wonder woman), but I don't think that'll ever happen. Like the Suicide Squad Director's Cut.

>>83840868
2bh if they added the ultimate edition scenes and cut the nightmare scenes (allude to them in JL) I'd be happy.

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>tfw you realize the name "DC Comics" actually expands ot "Detective Comics Comics" and highlights the doubly-meta nature of the entire franchise by adding a single word to its own name
wow

>>83840905
but the nightmare scenes are kino

>>83840868
>Fucking amazing, and amazing that he got the raspberry for this.
It seems like the die had been cast long before anyone actually saw the film. Why this particular film was such a problem with the liberal intelligentsia is anyone's guess. It's conservative without savaging progressive politics.

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>>83838097
>"A villain isn't allowed to be pretentious or bad because I say so!"

>>83840980
Just don't think BvS needed the nightmare scenes

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>>83841002
It actually desires nothing else but to be apolitical. I think Snyder considers family and faith not political ideas but rather universal ideas that every person on Earth can relate to. It is ironic and also tragic that the ignorance and political power plays shown in BvS as hindrance to Superman is also the same thing affecting the film itself. No film deserves the outright hatred that BvS garnered. It didn't stem from dislike. It stemmed from insecurity. Snyder was, to them, attacking them.

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>>83841264
I think it's going to "fit" as whole once you have Justice League. It wasn't just a nightmare. Something goes really fucking wrong in the next film or possibly wrong now that Flash has intervened to warn Bruce.

>>83831665
>Martha, Martha, Martha.
>Hmm.
>Why, the mother of a flying demon must be a witch. The punishment for witches, what is that?
>That's right.
>Death by fire

Bruce's mother was killed by gunfire. Clark's (real) mother was incinerated as Krypton became unstable.

That's a level of pottery that puts Lucas to shame.

>>83841299
>I think Snyder considers family and faith not political ideas but rather universal ideas that every person on Earth can relate to
I agree, and in the lense of 2017 where everything is political, his family and faith values are unquestionably Republican, and Democrat.

I'm not saying his film was a vehicle for Republican politics. It's remarkably restrained but the narrative, especially the undercurrent of family as a virtue is very conservative.

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>>83841465
not Democrat*

>>83841072
He can be just dont make it cringe worthy

>>83841449
Lex's mother figure?

Death by fire. And the most fitting comparison as she truly is the mother of a demon.

>MARTHA
What did he mean by this?

>>83841574
When Batman hears Martha’s name he is snapped back to the moment of his parents’ death and realises that he wasn’t the hero who was going to save the world from a dangerous alien, he was the man who was about to take a boy away from his mother. He was about to become the very thing he had fought against all his life and what had caused him to become Batman in the first place. Even though he was ready to kill Superman before, he had never thought of himself in terms of his parents’ killer and instead saw Superman as the killer. He lost his parents to a shooter “for no reason at all”, he lost Robin to the Joker (chaos) and he lost his last family, his employees to the Kryptonians’ war (that emerged out of nowhere).

But now he realised that he had things the other way around and that Superman was the victim and the man with a family, a mother and people that he loved and whom he was trying to save and was helpless to save at that moment. He saw things for what they really were: Superman was the boy about to lose his mother to a madman and that boy was helpless to save her. That is why when he realises all of this he throws the spear away in anger at what he had let himself become.

When Batman is faced with this reality he doesn't just come back from the edge and become good again, he manages to FINALLY come to terms with the loss he suffered for 30 years. By getting a chance to save Martha, he can finally do something that allows him to cope with his loss, which 20 years of fighting criminals and stopping evil couldn't do. It also reinstills faith in him that what he did for 20 years WASN’T a waste and that "what falls" ISN'T "fallen" permanently and that his life as Batman WASN'T just "a beautiful lie". This is proven at the end of the movie when he says, “Men are still good, we fight, we kill, we betray one another, but we can rebuild, we can do better, we will, we have to.”

>>83835609
>Monkey on the t-shirt
>When Lex is given access to the Kryptonian ship, he passed through a corridor reminiscent of the Discovery sets from 2001: A Space Odyssey
>Lex is the monkey who learns how to smash something with a bone after encountering an alien artefact

>>83841574
They were killing his mommy but Superman is way too masculine to say "they're killing my mommy".

>>83841443

isnt supes too slow for speedforce time traveling shenanigans

>>83841504
Wait, maybe I'm missing something here but who was Lex's mother figure in this?

>>83840711
also makes Superman a threat since people that hate him makes his location a viable target for a terror attack

>>83841808
Senator Finch. She comes closest to him and repeatedly tries to tame and temper him.

>>83841601
And it never occured to Batman before that Superman might have a mother? Or that the people he shot during the chase might have been sons too?

>>83841808

The senator has a sort of disciplining/scolding demeanour to him, I'd say you could interpret it as mothering.

>>83839438
That ship is way too big for Superman to lift by himself. Also it can't fly anymore.

>>83841876

Batman's whole approach to Superman is to treat him as some alien other until the fact of Superman's mother having the same name as his own and Superman being aftraid for his mother being in mortal danger forces him to empathise with him

>>83841876
In the battle between Super and Batman, Batman pulls Superman to his most darkest space. The final fight is figuratively being fought in Batman's head. He wants to make a point that he's the vulnerable child and Superman is the killer of his parents. So he takes Superman deeper and deeper. To his most personal space. And there he reduces Superman to the child he once was. And there he has his moment of epiphany and disgust seeing Superman becoming the very boy screaming for his mother that he once was.

There is literally not a single way they could've done this moment of insight better. It's fucking genious and it is being built up to from the very first scene.

>>83841862
>>83841932
His assistant Mercy as well. Maybe it wasn't incidental that Snyder cast an Asian woman, and she represented a combined fear of the other, fear of women and Lex's simultaneous psychotic need for/fear of some kind of surrogate mother figure?

>>83839438
Jor-El's consciousness was deleted from the ship's memory. The key that included this information was lost when inserted in the ship that they used to send the Black Zero into the Phantom Zone. Clark has no way to talk to his Kryptonian father anymore.

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>>83840672
The detail is bottomless.

>>83842006
Also strengthened further with the fact that Batman's mask is being torn apart the deeper they get. And there is a shot of Batman actually flunging Superman into a pit, the same pit he himself fell into as child. There he saw the beautiful lie, here he sees the ugly truth.

>>83836042
What the fuck are you talking about you spastic faggot

>>83841876
1) He didn't shoot anyone in the chase.
2) There's a damn good chance that Clark didn't even say Martha.

If you don't think that's a possibility, you've likely never read a comic book or even a regular book of any real substance in the entirety of your short life.

>>83841002
Because it includes objectivity about good and evil and has strong characters.

All the posters in this thread who unironically like bvs should check out The Dark Knight Returns. Snyder took tons of inspiration from it, and it's basically bvs but much better.

>>83842292
Nah, The Dark Knight Returns jerks Batman way too hard.

Childhood is adoring Batman, adulthood is realizing Superman is of greater influence.

>>83842292

He took more Cues from Superman: Birthright

including Lex being a socially-incapable spastic

>>83842292
nice new meme

>>83842292
Implying BvS fans don't read the comics.
>Superman: Birthright
>The Dark Knight Returns
>Batman: Hush
>The World's Greatest Superheroes
>Kingdom Come
>All Star Superman
>Luthor: Man of Steel
>Superman: Earth One
>Batman: Earth One
>It's a bird... (Vertigo)
BvS honors multiple masterpiece graphic novels. Only plebs see it as a failed adaption of TDKR.

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>>83842322
Exactly this. BvS is a near perfect reversal of TDK, with media pundits discussing the importance of Superman instead of Bruce's crusade and with the allegorical underpinnings of the tale brought up to more contemporary subjects.

Miller's allegory largely concerned itself with what was going on with the comics industry and comics characters. The creative team behind BvS expanded upon it and more clearly aligned it with real-world events.

>"Commencing drone mode."

>>83835954
She looks annoyed because Bruce is her dad and Lex is talking shit.

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>>83842389
There is also ton of Peace on Earth/Kingdom Come in there aswell.

>Must there be a Superman?

>>83842615
*Zeus

>>83842180
Every thread you push this pathetic fan theory.
Clark said MARTHA. That's objectively what happened. You can hear him say Martha Kent. People don't hear Kent because Clark is gasping it, and Bruce has a boot over his throat. But he says "You're letting him kill Martha Kent."

>>83834652
Ahhh the Redditvengers, just on time!

>>83842651
If I step on your throat and you go "kkkkkk," no one is going to assume you're trying to gasp out the word "Kent."

Bruce heard exactly what he needed to hear.

>>83841002
>Zack Snyder movie
>conservative
Lol no. Liberals hate his movies because they're not politically correct. But if you examine the subtext of his movies, he's definitely on the left side of the spectrum. Faith and family are universal, but the other themes explored in Man of Steel and BvS show that he respects liberal ideals, and condemns right wing thought process when taken to extremes. And Sucker Punch is an entire movie dedicated to feminism. 300 is ironically conservative, the way Starship Troopers is fascist.

>>83842759
Exactly. If Bruce didn't have his boot firmly over his neck, there's a chance he would've heard Kent and he wouldn't be so immediately knocked off guard. But the phrase "You're letting him kill Martha-" triggered him because it's not just hearing the name Martha, it really tapped into his survivors guilt and forced him to take a look at himself.

>>83842839
Sucker Punch isn't feminist. It's a story of victims utilizing escapism and power fantasies to justify a shitty life. Or rather, it's not feminist the way feminists would brand films. Sucker Punch was branded problematic by feminists, completely forgetting that being beautiful and sexy IS a power fantasy to girls. It's an odd film.

I do agree that BvS rejects xenophobia and tribe mentality. 300 wasn't meant to be right or left. A few soldiers protecting their homes isn't a matter of politics, it's common sense. Which is why it was so easy to relate to Leonidas' 300.

>>83842894
I don't dispute that, but what I'm getting at is that Bruce never killed one person in cold blood, not even the human trafficker, a man who is pretty much indisputably the scum of the earth.

If he couldn't kill a guy like that, what makes you think his fucked-up head was going to let him kill a guy he was clearly far more conflicted about?

>>83842839

I think he's an objectivist or at least a libertarian. He's expressed some interest in filming Rand's Fountainhead. And while I think objectivism is wrong about most things at least it makes some correct assumption before coming to the wrong conclusions.

>>83843078
I've really started to doubt he's an Objectivist. His haters would just dearly love for him to be one. There are plenty of things about "The Fountainhead" that someone of an artistic bent would find interesting, especially someone as fascinated with visuals and aesthetics as Snyder.

>>83843159
>>83843078
He's not an Objectivist, he's Christian.

>>83843159

You might be right, it becomes very clear throughout pretty much is entire work that he believes strongy in self determination and you don't have to buy into Ayn Rand's philosophy to do so.

>>83842587
thanks for the list, I've actually just gotten into comics and wanted to check out the classics. Any other recommendations?

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>>83840863

Fucking this.

>>83843262
Peace on Earth.

>>83841601

I kinda disagree with you there. I don't necessarily think that Bruce saw Superman as the scared little boy that he himself once was and still very much is. I think Bruce saw Clark as his father Thomas.

The whole movie Bruce is trying to honor his father. He failed his father as Batman - remember, Thomas went down trying to fight the criminal off to protect his family - and he failed his father as a business man - since he failed to protect his employees or take care of people like Wallace Keefe. Bruce also is deeply bothered about being older than his father was and still be a failure in regard to his father in his own mind. He sees his father as a accomplished and brave man. Gotham and Wayne enterprises were better when Thomas was alive. Thomas also died as a real man trying to protect his family. He is the real hero in Bruce's opinion.

Then during the fight with Superman what is it that he says to Superman? That Superman, the invulnerable and immortal alien, isn't brave. That vulnerable man that bleed and die in the gutter, but still fight, like his father did, that are brave. Why did he made a point to ask Superman if he bled before their big confrontation? Why was that a matter of conversation? Because Thomas bled. Thomas was a real hero in his mind. Superman's not.

What he sees when he has his foot on Superman's neck ready to kill him off? Superman bleeding and about to die uttering the saying thing his own father did moments before dying: Martha's name. He started to see Superman as Thomas. He started to see Superman as a hero.

1/2.

>>83843355

In the end with Superman's heroic sacrifice and Wonder Woman shielding him against what would be Doomsday lethal attack and generally being there for him, Batman not only gained a new father figure, but also a new mother figure. Superman as new example of a real hero also made him regain faith that he too can still be a hero. That the ideals of heroism that his own father had instilled in him and the bats had shown him are not died or a lie. It exists. It has to.

Also, Batman's totally going to fuck his new mother figure. That's just like him. In The Dark Knight Rises he started to fancy Catwoman after she stole his mother's pearls.

2/2.

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>>83843355
>>83843386
Ok that was thought out. It does cut to Thomas dying on the ground, not Bruce. And Bruce says "I'm older now than my father ever was" implying that he has no reason to live knowing that he's outlived his father and his ideals.

>>83838013
No man. This was a cringefest.

And to anyone who thinks this is good writing.
I don't even what to tell you but to please watch more film.

The mods REALLY need to crack down od DC shills. There are too many threads to the point its like spam

>>83843537
If you want us to believe you're more than just the same guy whining in every thread, expand your vocabulary past "cringe". Just a heads up.

>>83843537
>m-muh inexperience lol!
okay, post what's wrong with it and how you would have improved it.

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>>83840868
>>83834569
>>83834652

The haters want it to be one way, they want it to be one way.......but IT'S the other way.

>>83843537
>condescending to a literal god
lex was all kinds of awesome senpai

>>83843262
Most cape comics are actually pretty bad. There's a narrow list of genuinely brilliant titles, most covered in this thread.

My recommendation for you would be to give some Eurocomics and manga a look too, specifically:

>The Incal
>The Metabarons
>Valerian and Laureline
>Anything you can find by Moebius, most of it's out of print, grab it if you see it
>Akira
>Domu
>Vagabond
>Ghost in the Shell 1.5

>>83831561
Never bothered to see this... does he seriously quote Lolita in the film or is this a meme?

>>83840863
This deserves more (you)s. It's perfectly accurate.

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>>83840863
>The same problem applies here as applies to the other main characters. I don't think people actually have a problem with the characters portrayed in the movies, their problem comes from their preconceptions of the characters from the comics/pop culture in general, and they generalise their issues across the movie as a whole. It's sad, if you present someone with an Elseworlds book in which the characters act unlike their usual selves these people have no problem saying "It's a separate canon so it's OK", but when you try to tell them Snyder's movies are also in their own canon they just refuse to accept it.
I'm saving this. Good shit.

>>83843355
>>83843386

Well said, DCbro.

>>83843386

Bruce relationship with Diana, while early to say, mirror in the movie in a way the relationship Clark has with Lois.

Clark also tries to honor his father Jonathan. He says as much to Lois in one of the scenes:

>Superman: All this time I've been living my life the way my father saw it. Righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good. Superman was never real. Just the dream of a farmer from Kansas.
>Lois Lane: That farmer's dream is all some people have. It's all that gives them hope.

And like his father relationship with his mother, Martha, where Jonathan garnered strength and support to carry on in the darkest moments, Superman as well mirror that kinda relationship with Lois.

So in a way Bruce relationship with Diana mirroring the one he had with his mother is not problematic in the least. Otherwise we would have to make a case that Superman also wants to fuck his mother in how he relates with Lois. Specially when in Justice League he and Diana are equal partners in forming the the team. Kinda like his father and mother must have been in being philanthropists and whatnot.

>>83843839
You need to work on your plurals, your post is disgusting.

>>83843903
It's ok one day you'll understand the film too.

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>>83843618
I secretly hope that Lex's lust for power actually turns out to be an unexpected foil against the big bad in JL.

>>83843509

Bruce seemed to think that real heroes ought to die. They don't aren't supposed to outlive those around them. Bruce seemed to hate himself for that just as much he seemed to hate Superman. So both Bruce and Superman weren't real heroes. That's why he was OK with dying in his confrontation against Superman when talking to Alfred. Because if he died trying to put a stop to Superman, he'd die a hero. Ironically, that's what happened to Superman. Superman died a hero.

>>83843959
it was a honest post.

>>83843993
Why would you want something that shit? plus, snyder would never bait and switch.

>>83843903

Sorry, English is not my first language and i'm kinda drunk. I'm actually from Russia.

>>83834652
Heisenberg was great as Lex. A much better Joker than Heath Legend.

Not muh comic books is not an argument since comic book characters are reinvented and rebooted all the time.

>>83844067
Vodka?

>>83836116
He gets crazier as the movie goes on.

Or depending on you see it "more enlightened and less interested in following social norms or coherent conversation". He just let his ideas to flow without filters

>>83844040
Because it would bring another theme to the forefront - "bad against evil." In Suicide Squad, they'd have never found the Enchantress's heart if it weren't for Boomer's incessant looting.

If Lex turns out to see the gods as yet another means to an end and winds up somehow weakening or depowering them at a key moment out of a desire to seize that power, I'll be able to die a happy man.

>>83844137

Vodka, tequila, rum, something made out of potato (very heavy), lots of beer, energetic. My table and floor is full of shit.

>>83844174
Is russia really shit apart from the capital?

Is everyone there opposed to commieshit?

>>83844067
Your English is really good.

>>83844252

Kinda, yeah, and while many oppose it there are commieshitheads.

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>>83838996
the mental gymnastics you people go through to justify the shitty writing in this film is sad

>>83844383
So what's your angle?

>>83844169
And why would I want that?

One of the many things people miss about the movie is that Bruce only started to kill after the capitol bombing. Sure, he had become crueler and was branding criminals, but he didn't knew those criminals were being killed off in prison. Or he really didn't care about it. He could kinda distance himself from it.

But after the capitol bombing? He went nuts, like Keaton would say. He blamed himself for the whole thing as much he blamed Superman. It was his failure to pay attention and help his old employee that drove his employee to bomb the place in an attempt to get even against Superman. Those deaths were on him as well.

That's the only moment Batman stop doubting his mission, his intent of killing Superman, and goes all out taking anyone in his path to stop Superman once and for all.

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>>83844024
Yet another irony of BvS, Bruce goes into battle with Superman expecting, maybe even wanting to die. Instead he gets to see Superman die as the hero he wanted to go down as. Lex calls Superman a fraud with blood on his hands, literally gets caught ousted as a fraud with blood in his hands. Lex says devils come from the sky, he's the one desperately portraying himself as an angel to the weak. Bruce sees his father's murderer in Superman, later near becomes his father's murderer. Superman is rejected and despised in life, becomes glorified in death.

It's poetry, there's no way around that.

>>83844383
You inability to assemble a puzzle is doubtlessly as frustrating to you as it is hilarious to us.

It's cute and sort of endearing in a way, like watching a monkey trying to use a fork.

>>83844383
>accuse others of mental gymnastics
>write up a three-page rant that nobody is going to read because it's full of "b-but why are these people not acting always rational like robots do???"

>>83844024
>>83844458

That fucking scene with Alfred was fucking great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfubcZaU1is

>>83844383
that plan is perfectly coherent, you're just a brainlet.

the main objectives are destroying superman and putting hiiiimself in his place in some time.
Then he comes ot know that bruce is batman, and since if he dies, Wayne is out of the way, he decides to pit them against each other while there's time, whiich keeps his hands clean.

He needs some public controversy, so he associates superman with murder of innocents. He also needs ot rile bruce, so he connects this with his employees.

Now, he discovers the ship and doomsday, and he changes his plan to include his master-stroke, which is trapping both superrman and batman so that he'd win.

Then the rest follows.

>>83843659
No meme is power of OSCAR-WINNING screenwriter Chris Terrio

>>83844495
It's even worse than that. It's a willful denial of everything anyone who's ever heard the name "Lex Luthor" already understands about the character. To him, it must appear on-screen or it doesn't exist. Characters must always say exactly what their motivations are and what they intend to do, else it's "headcanon." If someone points out how wrong he is, then it's the film's fault for not being clear. Never his! Oh no!

It couldn't possibly be that he's dense and only just now finding out.

>>83831603
>No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations

And then later on, after Lex creates Doomsday

>Doomsday tries to punch Lex
>Superman flies in and saves him
>The man in the sky literally saves Lex from an abomination's fist

>>83844556
In all seriousness, was Lex suicidal? With Superman dead, wouldn't Doomsday have destroyed the entire planet, Lex included?

>>83844714

Just unhinged. Since Lex always bowed down for his own father, despite having issues with the man, maybe he thought Doomsday as his "son" would also bow down to him? He looked surprised as shit when Doomsday was going to punch his head off.

>>83844556
>so he associates superman with murder of innocents

Superman was immediately found to be innocent, that courthouse was just an excuse for Hack Snyder to have another loud explosion in the movie

>>83844556
>Now, he discovers the ship and doomsday, and he changes his plan to include his master-stroke, which is trapping both superrman and batman so that he'd win

Except he had no idea what Doomsday was, if it could beat Superman, he didn't know Superman would grab the spear instead of Wonder Woman, and he didn't have any plan to stop Doomsday even if he DID win. And to top that off Superman didn't even die

>>83844714
>was Lex suicidal
For all we know he has a personal motherbox. He might have been ready to teleport off-planet in case of an emergency, and if he knew Darkseid was coming here, he would have rationalized him destroying the planet as Mercy.

>>83844818
>Superman was immediately found to be innocent,
are you being stupid on purpose?

>>83844818
>Except he had no idea what Doomsday was, if it could beat Superman, he didn't know Superman would grab the spear instead of Wonder Woman, and he didn't have any plan to stop Doomsday even if he DID win. And to top that off Superman didn't even die
MOMMY! THIS MOVIE DOES NOT SPELL OUT EVERYTHING FOR ME!

>>83844818
I think it was a safe bet from Luthor's point of view that a revived Kryptonian could beat Superman. Granted, he obviously didn't manage it the first time, but unless you've got Kryptonite on you it's really the only way to beat Superman. Also, why didn't Lex keep some kryptonite on him? Imagine that final confrontation scene, before Doomsday is completed.

>Superman: "something something delivered in a flat emotionless fashion"
>Lex steps closer to him
>Pulls out kryptonite
>Shoots him

There, the end.

>>83844714
Arguably, yes. For all his talk about not knowing how to lose, he knew his goose was cooked the instant he heard Bruce's voice on the other end of that call.

With either Clark or Bruce dead, he still had an out, but not with both not only alive but cooperating.

>>83844714
I believe so. He was losing it completely after having his entire character destroyed so utterly by Superman. It's actually only BvS interpretation of Lex that I would understand would unleash Doomsday. He is cold and calculating but also very proud and vain. Superman hurt him where he hurts he most.

>>83844896
*Hell, while I'm at it, why didn't Batman just make a kryptonite dagger? Could have easily hid it on his suit, then while they're grappling or something just pulled it out and stabbed him. A spear seems like an incredibly unwieldy way to kill Superman, it's not like the extra 3 feet of reach are going to do anything for you.

>>83844896
>>Pulls out kryptonite
>>Shoots him
Did you even watch Batman fight and get rekt by Superman while he was ODing on Kryptonite?

A skinny nerd with a bullet couldn't do shit, even with kryptonite.

>>83844958
>t. someone whooo has never been in a fight

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>>83844958
A knife is a criminal's weapon?

And because Arthur (Superman) gets impaled on a spear in pic related

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>>83844495
I didn't write that up dipshit

>>83844669
>It's a willful denial of everything anyone who's ever heard the name "Lex Luthor" already understands about the character.

so you just ignore all the plotholes in the movie because this character (that behaves nothing like his comic counterpart) shares the same name of a character you're a fanboy of...

how about a good screenplay instead?

>>83844872
>MOMMY! THIS MOVIE DOES NOT SPELL OUT EVERYTHING FOR ME!

wow what a pathetic & desperate cop-out

>>83845011
How about you finally admit you were wrong about the dock chase?

No?

>>83844990
>Did you even watch Batman fight and get rekt by Superman while he was ODing on Kryptonite?

That only happened once the kryptonite wore off, though. Every time Superman got exposed to it, there was a period of like a minute or so where he was as weak as a normal person. All Lex has to do is expose him to it and then shoot him.

>>83844990
>t. someone whooo has never been in a fight

Superman has super-speed and strength, the reach advantage you'd have in a real fight is non-existent here. Unless, of course, he's already been kyrptonite-ed (kryptonized), in which case he's just a normal human and Batman could beat the crap out of him with one hand tied behind his back. Either way, the spear is really unnecessary.

>>83845011
>so you just ignore all the plotholes in the movie because this character (that behaves nothing like his comic counterpart)
I haven't even read that many comics and I know there are multiple takes on the character Lex.

>>83845011
>that behaves nothing like his comic counterpart)
Which one? The one from the 40's? The one from the 60's? The one from the 80's? The one from the 00's? Just who exactly is the "real" Lex?

>>83845094
>Unless, of course, he's already been kyrptonite-ed (kryptonized), in which case he's just a normal human
Why are you repeatedly assuming this? this is not true, he goes head-on with Bruce's armor without a scratch even when on Lryptonite.

>>83845101
The one with greed, jealousy, and hubris born of intellect at the core of his character. Oh wait, that runs counter to that dipshit's hate-boner, doesn't it?

So are the people defending this movie shitposters or actually retarded? I can't tell the difference anymore

>>83845151
Movie Superman seems to have something of a healing factor. He's clearly getting busted up when he's dosed with K, but he bounces back afterwards. Just look at his grimacing when he's getting suplex by Batman or tossed from several stories up. If he's feeling it, it's getting thru his impervious nature.

When he's fighting Zod in MoS he's taking shots to the head and gut like it's nothing

>>83845177
>The one with greed, jealousy, and hubris born of intellect at the core of his character
A good description of BvS Lex.

>>83845216
That happens a lot when you're actually the mentally challenged party. If you can't tell who's retarded, odds are, it's you.

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Nearly 300 posts and the Marlel brainlets still can't make a compelling argument against the film in this thread, or any thread in the sat year. Everything they say boils down to, "Not muh" or "They didn't spell it out for me!" Just give up, seriously how many BTFO can you take?

>>83845216
I know, there's an actual mental case spending hours every day for months leaking shit from his ass because people are liking a film that isn't Marvel capeshit.

>>83845216
I actually liked this movie. It was far from perfect, but I'm confused about how the critical reception was so negative when it was miles ahead of most superhero movies (which typically get very positive receptions from critics).

>>83845238
And how fast his cut healed.

>>83831561
I liked Kevin Spacey better as Lex.

>>83845255
You have to understand, ever since Wonder Woman wrecked their year-long shitposting and Black Panther looking like AIDS, they're on the full damage control again. Imagine having everything you shilled for days on end having ruined like that. I would go mental too.

>>83845255

The thing that depress me is that even the critics were dumb as rocks. Their complaints all stern from "this isn't fun", "there are few jokes", "the characters aren't funny or charming", "this is fascistic" or dumb shit like that.

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>>83845304
>Black Panther looking like AIDS
I don't know why I found this so funny, but I did.

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>>83845285
>>83845315

>>83845249
I wonder if he realized that when he was typing that out. Goes to show how misguided their hatred is and is born not out of geniune disappointment but out of malice and fanboy hatred.

I pity them.

>>83845315
I attribute it to cognitive dissonance. Like if there had been an entire string of Friday the 13th movies that were lighthearted romantic comedies, then in spite of all the marketing and promos advertising the latest installment as straight-up slasher horror, critics still insisted on measuring it up against its predecessors and calling it the shittiest rom-com ever just for not being what they expected it to be.

>>83845285

Because it wasn't fun and simple. There weren't that many cool action sequences and funny moments peppered around the movie to keep you entertained That's what the critics had come to expert and were hoping to see. There was also too much talking, too much seriousness and the action itself made movie feel too tense and intense. No fun at all. Superhero movies are supposed to be fun. They made a point to praise Wonder Woman presence, though, so they could virtue signalling while bashing everything else. God forbid anyone would think they're against a female superhero.

>>83845393
I'm >>83845177. I actually agree with the you guys. I was dumping on >>83845011 for being so obtuse.

Lexelberg's plan was retarded all along.
Batman wins fight - Doomsday kill everyone
Superman wins fight - he kills/maim/blust Lexelberg and kill/die from Doomsday.
He is losing anyway.

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>typical BvS thread
>people discussing characters, plot points, cinematography, mythology, literature, comic books, politics, state of the media, meaning of family and faith, sporadic marlel shitposting and life and death
Best threads on /tv/ by far

>>83845716
>literally nothing of that happened ever
>shitposting about biggest wasted potential in history
Trully the best

Wouldn't it be possible to permanently de-power superman, by injecting kryptonite into him or something like that?

>>83845700
He wouldn't consider it a loss if Doomsday killed Superman. For him, this was greater than his life. It was at the heart of all his life's work.

>>83845750
Like I said,

>sporadic marlel shitposting

Learn to read.

>>83845751
wouldn't i be possible to give batman a cold by injecting plutonium into him?

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>>83845750
>sporadic marlel shitposting
Whoop! There it is

>>83845753
Wrong. He counted that Doomsday will be his lapdog, but since he is mr autismo with stupid plan, the only reason he is alive because of Superman

>>83840020
I didn't realize Michelangelo spent the first 2/3rds of his work on the sistine chapel painting bibilical murals only to switch to hindi in the last 1/3rd.

As that is that is how much relevance the first TWO HOURS of bvs has to the last hour. For as soon as martha is kidnapped, every single plotline of the first two hours is summarily dismissed and the last hour is just a long dull action sequence.

>>83845780
>>83845809
>h-he is not liking goyer's shit and snyder's trash!
>m-must be marlel!
Pathetic. Best DC movie is TDK and best Snyder's movie is Watchmen because he didn't changed shit except ending. End yourselfs.

>>83845814
No. He never intended on that. He was clearly losing it. The guy had completely lost his shit after Superman ruined his great plan, years in working.

>>83845840
Lol I'm sorry the whole movie flew over your head. Maybe if your reflexes were faster you would catch it amirite marvel drone XD

>>83845879
What plan?

>>83845865
>end yourselfs
>yourselfs
The marlels should atleast honor themselves enough to learn how to spell.

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>>83845700
>Bats dies
Lex sends Supes somewhere far off to get his mom, Supes finds out the lie, comes back to find Doomsday and Lex nowhere to be found. Regardless of whether Supes or Doomsday wins, Lex still has his "alien menace" either way.

>Supes dies
Bats dies to Doomsday nearly instantly and Lex still gets his threat.

In either case, Lex still has two things in play: a kryptonite spear and Diana. That's why he invited her to Metropolis in the first place. She was the first recruit for the Justice League, brought to you by LexCorp!

>>83845900
Your lack of counter argument is telling.

>>83845904
The demythifying of Superman. If you watched the film, you would know this.

>>83845905
>lost an argument
>h-ha he made a mistake
Thx God there is WW saving DCEU from being utter edgygrimdark trash. Enjoy JL quipfest, faggots.

>>83845904
1. Find Kryptonite
2. Import it
3. Pee in a jar
4. Blow up Congress
5. Give kryptonite to Batman so he can kill Superman
6. Kidnap Lois Lane and Martha Kent to gain leverage over Superman
7. Pray that Batman kills Superman
8. Create Doomsday for....some reason (iirc he started building it while Batman and Superman were still fighting)
9. Once Batman is not fighting Superman, nothing else matters so unleash Doomsday and let him just kill everyone

>>83845961
Your point was being? I reply with the same amount of effort as you put in yours. It's nice seeing you losing every argument and now having to rely on non-arguments to fill out the thread.

>>83845935
>muh myths!

doesn't follow anyway, as for if superman is unheroic, why call him superman?

One of the most neat thing about the movie is one of its themes, the theme of power. This is something that comic books rarely explore when it comes to its superheroes. DC has done it a few times, but not in the same way BvS did it. BvS was very direct and honest about it. Being a hero, ie vigilante, ultimately is a selfish thing. It's something done out of a desire to gain power, to feel in power, to be powerful. Just look at the ultimate edition trailer of the movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO19XY2rqc

That's one of the main themes of the movie. It's not just about the ultimate power Superman has and what that can mean for the world or what Superman should or should not do because of it. It also pertain to how powerless Superman feel throughout the movie being blame for things he didn't do and being unable to have things go his way, or help everyone the way he wish he could, or deal with how people see or treat him and unable to control that, or how he train to regain a sense of power by going after Batman who he feels is being overlooked while everyone gun for his ass.

Or even in how Bruce, Batman, feel powerless throughout the movie, feel like shit, when he once thought he had all the power to change Gotham for the better, when he once thought he had regain power in life after the death of his parents, and how he goes loco in his quest to feel in charge again, to feel powerful again.

Lex, Wonder Woman, Senator Finch, the other senator wanting to fuck Superman, etc, they all want to feel in power or hide their power, or gain power. It's all about power. Everything we do in life. How man and woman search for power in life and how we deal with it. And that's what superheroes, when you boil down the concept to is most basic, are about. It's about power fantasy.