Name one plot hole in LotR (protip: you cannot). Eagles don't

please respond

Why doesn't Eru just speedblitz Sauron's ass back on his daddy's cock into the void?

Checkmate atheist.s

>>82623173
Sauron knew the hobbits were coming, the whole point of Aragorn leading the troops to the gate was to distract the Eye of Sauron. The books are different, naturally.

>>82623394
>Sauron knew the hobbits were coming

Not with the ring he didn't.

Tolkien is overrated

Why weren't there any good Orcs?

>>82623435
why would he care that a few hobbits were going to mordor if they didn't have the ring

>>82623173
>name one plothole
THE SHIRES TAX POLICY
ROHANS TAX POLICY
ISENGARD'S TAX POLICY
MORDOR'S TAX POLICY
RIVENDELL'S TAX POLICY
MIRKWOOD'S TAX POLICY
MINAS TIRITH'S TAX POLICY
MINAS MORGUL'S TAX POLICY
ANGMAR'S TAX POLICY
BOMBADIL'S TAX POLICY
ERU'S TAX POLICY

OP BTFO FUCK OFF THIS IS A GoT BOARD

>>82623495
Tolkien is rated correctly. Peter Jackson was overrated until the first Hobbit movie, then we all remembered he's shit.

Why didn't they give the Ring to Tom Bombadil?

Did Aragorn kill the baby orcs in their baby cribs?

What about taxes?

>>82623558
because tolken was a hack who had a black and white view of the world. good and evil. no morally gray. if a person was good then good things happened to them and if a person was bad they died. if a king was good his land prospered. but what about the kings tax policy and grain storage facilities? where did he put criminals or did he just execute bad people? in tolens universe there were no good orcs because orc is synonomous with bad. were orc babies abused or were there caring and sympathetic orcs? what was the tax policy of orc clans? so many unanswered questions that tolen was to naive and unprepared to answer about his fantasy universe.

Why didnt elves or dwarves help Gondor?

>>82623173
In a kingdom that large we knew nothing about the tax policy, how did their society function? Big plothole.

fucking taxes you pos OP

>>82623173

Why didn't Galadriel just riverdance to Mordor with the ring?
biggest plot hole next to tax policies

>>82623880
People that know about Tom Bombadil would have read the book. Meaning they also read the part where Gandalf explained why Tom was a bad candidate as the ring bearer. And if you haven't read the book, you should kys.

>>82623913
Elves of mirkwood and dwarves were fighting a huge orc war in their own lands.

Why did the orcs boy to a talking tower in the first place? if it was realistic they would be revolts and factions breaking off to live with the hobbits and humans and that

I always wondered how Gollum escaped Moria

>>82623851
Middle earth reached the final stage of Communism where government is abolished.

>>82624215
???? English not your first language?

>>82623882
I LOVE this meme

>>82623173
Why didn't Feanor join up with Melkor instead of slamming the door in his face like an hysterical woman?

What did orcs eat and drink? You can't farm or hunt in that barren waste land.

>>82623495
His world building was alright.

>>82623880
Tom didn't care

>>82624395
They subsisted on menus.

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>>82623173

Why the fuck were these literal whos allowed to be part of the world's most important and secretive spec-ops mission?

>>82624430
>hurr lots of gras and trees and like .. dragons and mountains

His world building is shit.

>>82624474
He brought Dwarfs, Elves, Goblins, Orcs, Trolls, Hobbits into modern western lore

>>82624518
kek

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Why wasn't he invisible?

>>82624541
The ring....does things. Maybe even different things for different people

>>82624531
world of warcraft being one example of his influence

>>82624596
>degenerate video games are a sign of success

How do we know Aragorn would be a good king if we don't know his tax policy?
How did Sauron keep a huge army like that?
How comes noone knew Moria had been overrun by orcs?

>>82624612
you were the one who posted "kek". And it definitely is an example of his influence, what do you even mean by "success", thats incredibly hard to measure

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>>82623882
>In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any ‘rational being’ is wholly evil.

>>82624228
The same way the Orcs left it after Gandalf broke the bridge. They put some plywood sheets over the gap or something.

>>82623394
>eye of sauron doesn't equal sauron

not sure if you're retarded or just retarded

>>82623719
Because he didn't want spies in his kingdom, obviously?

>>82624132
wait really? i think i would have preferred to have seen that

>>82624466
people enjoyed their company. that's probably a hard concept for you to understand

why didn't frodo ride the eagles for a little while and just get dropped off out side of mordor and maybe he wouldn't've been so fucking tired when it came time to throw it into the fire

>>82625612
The eagles don't give a shit about them. The only reason gandalf got help is because he saved one in the past.

>>82623558

They weren't evil, Sauron's tax policy just created a number of perverse incentives.

>>82625702
oh really

>>82624395

Mordor is actually really nice further south. The shitty hell part is just a small corner.

>>82624667
He's just a typical /tv/ contrarian autist. Tolkien is the greatest of all time, the amount of education and knowledge he had and the amount of effort he put into his work and building his world is unmatched. Which is why almost every modern fantasy work is derivative of him and his world/characters/races.

Is it pronounced Tolk-ien, Tolki-en, Tolk-en or Tolk-ian?

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>>82625789
>Tolkien is the greatest of all time

>>82624466
The whole reason for having the hobbits is just having some plebs along for the ride. They are humble little manlets in a world that is too big for them. Yet they still take on the challenge and make their marks on history. That's the point.

>>82625830

Toll-kin

>>82624228
did he escape....or was he released?

>>82625833
Name someone with more cultural significance, influence and a more cohesive world then. No one compares to Tolkien. But I'll give you a shot. Come on then, offer up your example little mongoloid.

>>82624596
Holy shit, pretty much every pure fantasy universe based on European folklore are examples of his influence.

>>82624339
Because the thing Feanor at that point loved the most were his Silmarils and he learned that Melkors intentions were all along to steal them, and melkor himself hated feanor too.

>>82623173
What the fuck did the ring exactly do that made it so sought?

>>82625905
>Name someone with more cultural significance
Homer

>>82623394
Sauron assumed Aragorn had the ring at this point because he had wrestled control of the Palantiri from him and they forced Saurons hand.

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>>82623495
>>82623882

People who unironically think tyrion and game of thrones is cutting edge fun books made good (tv)

GOT's world building is literal trash

If Gandalf can defeat a fucking Balrog single-handed, why not just put Frodo on a horse with Gandalf and have them race cross country to Mordor? If he can defeat a Balrog, seems he could just rek anything else that comes in his path, even if it's a bunch or orcs or whatever.

Also, why didn't they just take boats most of the way there?

>>82625905
The problem is you're equating popularity with greatness.
Not everyone thinks that way.

Fast and the Furious will have more cultural impact than most movies because it's so widely seen. Does it mean that it's the greatest movie of our generation? Probably not.

How did gollum know the name and location of some random guy that pulled his ring out of the water?

>>82625997
I'll give you that. Perhaps "all time" is a bit too liberal. Maybe I should have said "the past millennium." Didn't realize ancients were part of this equation. Might as well throw the Biblical writers in there too if we're going this route.

>>82626155
...you mean his best friend who he was fishing with?

>>82626059
He'd run out of mana pretty quickly fighting 10,000,000 orcs.

>>82626190
No nigga, Bilbo.

>>82625830
Toll-Keen

>>82625895
wrong

>>82626210
>10,000,000 orcs
Sure, like that is likely to happen.

>>82626226
Umm... m-magic n shit?

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/tolkien-cs-lewis-disney-snow-white-narnia-hobbit-dwarves
Was it autism?

>>82626226
Gandalf says in "The Shadow of the Past," "Well, as for the name, Bilbo very foolishly told Gollum himself; and after that it would not be difficult to discover his country, once Gollum came out."

Furthermore, Gandalf says that Gollum followed Bilbo's trail through Mirkwood and even into Esgaroth. Also, Gollum knew that Bilbo was a hobbit, so all he really had to do is overhear someone say something like "the Shire's a place where a lot of Hobbits live"

>>82626176
Homer Simpson

>>82626119
I understand what you mean, but those movies aren't really genre-defining. Nothing new was invented except maybe the visual style. Tolkien cemented every modern trope. Almost no fantasy writer dares stray from the Tolkien version of the creatures and races, Tolkien's version of elves and orcs have become stock characters in the likes of Frankenstein or Dracula.

As for popular not necessarily meaning great, you just have to look at the guy's life and accomplishments. Even without his bodies of work he was a great man, very learned, intelligent and successful. He built his world with painstaking attention to detail and a finesse that is rarely matched, and in my opinion, hasn't been since.

>>82626319
What books did Homer Simpson write?

Are we talking about writers or characters now? I understand that autism blurs the line between reality and fiction, but I do hope you understand the fact that Homer Simpson is a cartoon character and Tolkien was a living person.

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>>82626256
Just threw out a big number. If you want to count them be my guest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZZNHekEQw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C8SX0mWP0&t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg

>>82624395
Slime and White women.

>>82626694
cant handle all this kino at once

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>>82626319

>>82623173
>Eagles don't fucking count because the ring had to be transported to Mordor in SECRET.
Then why did Hackson have a scene where Frodo and the Ring is shown to the Nazgul right outside Mordor? Fuck the second half changes to Two Towers, what a piece of shit that was.

Fellowship was great all-around, Two Towers had a solid first half, but the added fluff and character changes in the second half was complete garbage, that fucked the pacing of the rest of the series. Return had some good individual scenes but suffered from disjointed pacing TT second half had. I will never not be mad about that.

>>82624576
BIG plot hole if you ask me

>>82626455
So you're saying the guy that drew the first green frog is the reason Trump won the election? Tolkien's influence ended with his story and everyone else picked it up from there.

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>>82624541
Tolkien wrote about it in one of his letters or somewhere. When a mortal wears the ring they get sucked into the shadowy ghost dimension or whatever. Sauron is a pure spirit, he exists there already. He "wears" a body like it was clothing. He's already invisible when naked.

>>82626455
The movie came up with new standards for cinematography, makeup, practical effects, and you can argue even CGI, for the fantasy genre.

>>82626980
Why didn't he just say that in the book?

>>82627021

because not everything that happens needs detailed explanations, but apparently tolkien thought dusty old roads did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqjfq5gsfYk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEYcTyj1Do&t=6s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tgi-j56ueU

>>82627021
Because he wanted to put too much into his book already. It's 1100 pages long not including the appendixes. The complete Histories is another 5000+ pages and that's not even everything Tolkien wrote about Middle-earth. He couldn't include every little detail, nor did he want to. He wanted the reader to be as out of place as the Hobbits are, that's why the story focuses exclusively on them and their experiences.

If gandalf is such a great wizard, why does he only fight with a sword and make water horses that one time?

Why didn't Gandalf just teleport the ring into the volcano?

Why didnt they just find a good hiding spot for the ring

>>82623173
>the ring had to be transported to Mordor in SECRET

Okay faggot so why didn't they take the eagles over the mountains so that they didn't have to go under and fight the balrog which Gandalf knew was there ahead of time?

>>82623173
So why couldn't they secretly fly the ring to mordor? The eagles still could've landed frodo just on the outskirts of mount doom as he snuck into the mountain to destroy it. A lot of time and effort could've been saved.

>>82623173
Why didn't they just take the ring out of Middle Earth, to the Undying Lands, and have the gods kerplode it where Sauron can't do shit about it?

I think the Hobbits should have allied themselves with Sauron.
Sauron was keeping the Human population of Middle Earth in check because of the constant state of war.
After his defeat it's only a matter of time before human immigrants flood the lands of the Hobbits and genocide them

>>82624395
MAGGOTY

>>82625969
It made you invisible so you could spy on naked elf women

>>82623173

Why didn't an eagle eat the ring and kamikaze into Mt. Doom?

>first movie is great
>the other two are just okay

Are the books like this too?

>>82627252
He was hellbent on destroying all life in Middle-Earth, he wouldn't let humans settle again.

Didn't Saruman kill many citizens when he attacked Rohan?
What do you think Sauron would do?
He has no need for slaves.

>>82627287
What would happen if you just threw the ring into any old volcano? Since Mt. Doom is supposedly the only place it can be destroyed.
Would it just sink to the bottom of the lava pit unscathed? Would be kinda hard to get it back at that point wouldn't it?

>>82627150
Sauron was set to militarily conquer Middle-earth with or without the ring. The only winning option was to destroy it. Sauron thought this was impossible because he (correctly) believed that no one could ultimately withstand its temptation failsafe. If only he'd put some non-slip tile around the forge.

>>82627170
Gandalf wasn't worried about the Balrog. He wasn't even against going through Moria, it was Aragorn who objected. Both had been through Moria before, it's like a million miles of tunnels.

>>82627210
Giant eagles aren't exactly inconspicuous you moron.

>>82627214
The Valar would never allow the ring to taint the Undying Lands. Also they sent the Istari to Middle-earth to solve the problem in the first place.

>>82627342

if it's anything like the planet we live on then it would probably slowly sink to the center of the earth considering it's a metal and it's denser than rock.

>>82627317
if by that you mean
>first movie is great
>second movie is great
>third movie has great moments and some not great moments
then yes

>>82627377
Could've just done that then instead of all the effort of taking it to Mt. Doom. Just throw it in a volcano, eyeball faggot could never get it then.

ITT A lot of people that haven't read the source materiel and only know of LOTR based on the movie representations.

>>82627331
>He was hellbent on destroying all life in Middle-Earth

He wasn't, actually. He wanted to rule. He was kind of up his own ass about being a literal god and thought that everyone was obligated to do what he said because of it.

>In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.’

>>82627435
Well, this is Television & Film. It's a fair knock against the movies if something in them doesn't make sense without an explanation in the book, correct/?

>>82627435
would you like to explain why that pisses you off?

>>82624612
>posting kek
>thinks world of warcraft is degenerate
oh boy oh boy, you're just all kinds of retarded. Kek became popular BECAUSE of wow.

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>>82623173
Why does the West-gate say "Aran Moria" on its inscription? Moria is a negative term meaning Black Chasm. It should say "Aran Hadhodrond."

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>>82627643
Dwarves didn't seem to take "Black Chasm" as a pejorative because it sounds pretty metal.

And they were besties with the Noldor anyway.

who was more tragic, gollum or boromir?

let's keep in mind - gollum got his ring in his last moments, boromir never saw the end of the war he had fought his whole life.

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If by the 3rd Age in MIddle-earth Quenya had become essentially an academic language not in any real day to day use, how is it that thousands of years later in the 20th century a variant of it was somehow adapted as the native tongue of the inhabitants of the North Pole?

>>82627801
You've got me there anon.

>>82627763
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyiK2rO1pc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbzFmkHEv1Q

if Eru pushed gollum into the volcano why didnt he just smite morgoth at the first moment he fucked up

>>82628210
Providence is subtle. Smiting isn't.

Why didn't Elrond just push Isildur into the volcano?

>>82627763

I'd say Boromir. His only motive was defending Gondor and he had already done great things in order to keep Gondor safe. He also knowingly redeemed himself at the end.

Gollum is just too far gone and lived nearly his whole life devoted to the ring so it's hard to say anything about his true personality and motives. It's tragic that he happened to become the rings puppet though but he rarely showed remorse for anything he did.

>>82628265
Elrond never took Isildur to the forge. If they had gone they would both have been at each other's throats for possession of the ring.

>>82628265
>so, where's the King of Men Elrond?
>he umm... HE TRIPPED... and fell into the volcano
>3000 years of man/elf war starts then and there

>>82623882
you realize that all of Gondor defies your theory, right? you must lack the ability to understand nuance, e.g. Tolkien's book representation of Denethor

fuck off Peter Jackson

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>>82628447
Peter Jackson is a giant of cinema mother fucker, you take that back

>>82627763
obviously boromir, gollum was a cunt through and through

>>82623173
Eagles are the biggest plot hole in film history and yes it counts

>>82629107
Have you read every explanation online as to why that wouldn't work?

>>82624228
How did he get in also? The way the fellowship came collapsed from the watcher in the water

>>82625905
J K Rowling

>>82626009
bullshit. sauron wouldn't have given a fuck about aragorn, because he would have soon been corrupted by the ring eventually.

>>82623173
Gandalf falling faster than his sword during the Balrog fight scene.

>>82623880
Because Tom was an ancient evil and giving him the ring would been a monumentally terrible idea.

http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

>>82629518
dude he's an ancient wizard, I think he can do that

>>82629290
Just because millenials like to LARP as Harry Potter doesn't mean it's had significant cultural impact.

>>82623882
the orcs were a savage species but they weren't completely evil. They fight for Sauron because they're terrified of him

>>82629290
>J K Rowling
>More cohesive world.

LMAO

>>82628518
how do they get stuck?

>>82629700
the dwarf had a thing stuck in his head didn't he? better question is how he flew up like a rocker to begin it

>>82627472
I guess you could call it fair but keep in mind that there's never enough time to explain everything when adapting any book

>>82626027
except neither of those guys even mentioned GOT or Grr.
Got a bee in your bonnet reddo?

>>82623173

Actually Eagles don't count because they're not regular animals, they're semi-divine creatures who are forbidden from interfering in the affairs of mortals. The movies >implied that Gandalf can simply summon the Eagles whenever he wanted, but in the books, the Eagles helped as and when they chose to, they were the peers of Gandalf, not his servants.

Any bookfags know why Sauron didn't know about Rohan gathering army? Or atleast why he didn't prepare more accordingly?

>>82627763
>>82628314
>>82629035
That poor little cretin spent hundreds of years hiding in a cave under a mountain in the pitch blackness, hating and fearing everything. 500 years wasn't it?

>>82629797
He did, in the book.

There was an army between Rohan and Gondor waiting for the riders, but some ancient forest people led the Rohirrim on secret paths of old.

>>82628518
You could cut a good half of the fight scenes out of this and it wouldn't make the film any worse.

>>82629866
Go watch the Maple Films Edit of the Hobbit, it's a legit 8/10 4h movie.

Can anybookfag answer me; is there anything that may be an actual plot hole that fandom filled in for Tolkien?

>>82629290
not even fucking close

>>82629894
No. Thank got Tolkien has another audience then Star Wars, Potter and the like

>>82624097
It was boring and I dropped it after the first one.

>>82629799
>poor orcs, having to do what sauron tells them all the time
>poor saruman, if gandalf had only let his plan take place he wouldn't have literally genocided an entire race
>poor sauron, if only the other gods didn't bully him so much and melkor didn't warp his mind

at what point do these fictional characters begin receiving responsibility for their actions?

>>82629894

The only thing that comes close is "why didn't Sauron put guards at Mount Doom to prevent people from destroying his ring?" but this is answered in the text by the notion that evil beings lack the ability to empathize, and so Sauron would never even consider the possibility that someone would destroy the ring rather than trying to use it.

>>82629950

and he was right

desting

>>82630090
true though he probably didn't suspect they'd get to the actual cracks of doom itself. Also Gandalf is the only one in middle-earth who gives a shit about Hobbits and knows that they can resist evil since they are essentially contented and at peace unlike the other races which are tormented by desire of gold, power or glory.

>>82630241
Lotho Sackville-Baggisn would like to have a word with you

She is a force leech, which is not much different than being a woman, which she is, so it makes sense.

>>82630300
oops, wrong thread.

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>>82623882
>tips fedora

>>82630374

Not an argument.

Didn't Sauron see Frodo when he put on the ring and saw the burning eye in the final act just before the big ork attack? Why wasn't he on his radar instead of Aragorn's troops and Gondor.

>>82623882
>Children of Hurin
>Sons of Feanor
>Dwarves of Nogrod
>Ar-Pharazon
>Black Numenorians
>Wood Elves (Legoshits)
>Gondor stewards
>Fucking Denethor and Boromir for moviefags

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>>82623558
they aren't really "evil"; they are just not accepted by mainstream human society and constantly prosecuted. We didn't want them in our cities and wouldn't get them jobs, so out of necessity they banded together and had to live under horrible conditions in their dungeon ghettos and flock around the only employer willing to give them work.
If our society was just more accepting we litterally wouldn't have any problem with orcs
It's fundamentally a men of the west problem

>>82630403
Frodo didn't put on the Ring in RotK iirc.

In the book tho, Sam puts on the ring in front of Cirith Ungol to follow some orcs. Only when they climb down the montains into Mordor Tolkien writes that putting on the Ring now would lead to them being instantly discovered.

>>82629597

I like when tv pretends Harry Potter wasn't a major cultural event.

Not a plot hole per se, but the trilogy has a fair share of fake deaths, especially The 2 Towers, such a cheap plot-device.

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>>82630435
Get all women and children on the life boats I mean mountain path.

Let all white men pigs go to hell!

>>82630404
>sons of feanor

basically all noldor are fucking cunts, with a few exceptions like fingolfin
They should have been hanged from the very start

>>82630443
>Frodo didn't put on the Ring in RotK iirc.

I mean in Fellowship.

>>82630488
They might be considered doucebag cunts by some people but they are definitely not plain black/white evil

>>82630491
Oh alright. He's probably too far off or doesn't wear it long enough.

Why do the dumbass Nazgul always give away their position by shrieking?

>>82625570
that's why Moria dwarves had died.

>>82624466
Gandalf had a shotacon yaoi fetish so he didn't mind two extra coming along

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>>82630435
Go to bed Sauron

>>82625969
Only Sauron could truly wield and use it to it's true potential.

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>>82630435
This desu

>>82630522
It's not like they'd have to hide from anyone, being immortal wraiths and shit.
Also their shrieks tend to freeze men. Too bad it didn't work on the hobbits when they were chasing them because muh mary sue dindu nothing race

Why did they let Aragorn walk away... with the fucking horse?? It was literally if you kill your enemies they win: the moment.

>>82630453
If harry potter had such a cultural influence, show me one example of another work taking influence from it, that had no involvement from jk herself.
Harry potter is just well known, it's had no lasting cultural impact or influence

>>82627643
This is a legitimate mistake, which Tolkien admitted to. Well done.

>>82630566
What are you talking about?

>>82623173
>eagles couldn't do it because it had to be in secret
Why? The eagles murdered Sauron's fellbeasts.

>>82630566
>Why did they let Aragorn walk away... with the fucking horse??
What are you on about

>>82630403

Sauron isn't omniscient, he's capable of scrying great distances because he has a palantir, and the Ring calls to him, but it would have to be very close indeed for him to simply "sense" it. Note that when Frodo donned the Ring in the magma chamber of mount Doom, Sauron immediately "saw" him and sent his ringwraiths there, but of course they didn't make it in time.

>>82630566
Grima, pardon, lapsus.

How did orcs know what a menu was?

>>82623558

Tolkien himself noted this, and in fact considered adding a redeemed orc to the story, but decided against it because it would weaken his overall narrative. But orcs can be redeemed, and presumably some of them were, although we never see them in the stories.

>>82630599
Pity for the useless shit and muh he will play a part sooner or later, which he did killing sauronman

>>82627700

Doesn't matter, and not true anyway. Moria was only called that AFTER the Balrog rose and drove the Dwarfs out.

>>82630566
>>82630599
he was still a man of Rohan and they simply didn't think, that he could be any danger to them anymore; and really if saruman wouldn't have come up with some new witchcraft (black powder), he wouldn't have been

If the ring adjust itself to fit the wearer why didnt they just turn the ring into a micropenis cockring so they cant find it

>>82630648

He was still a traitor, by all rights he should have been strung up.

>>82628210
Eru literally made the world cos he needed some good entertainment, he wasn't going to spoil the show at the start.

>>82630583
You can thank Hackson for that, they actually only retrieved Frodo and Sam in the end

When Gandalfs gets his piggyback ride on the fucking King of the Eagles (biggest mofo and all) he asks him how long can he carry him, on which his responds something along the lines that even him "far but not all the way to Rivendell"
Eagles couldnt cover the distance from Isengard to Rivendell, its fucking cannon

>>82630585
Okay then, fair enough.

>>82630547
Which was?

>>82630670
>You can thank Hackson for that, they actually only retrieved Frodo and Sam in the end
You sure? Tolkien even squeezed the super cheesy "The eagles are coming" line into the battle at the Black Gate. Can't remeber what they rekt but I do believe they rekt something

>>82630665
i agree, but it wasn't that bad. I thought sending him back to his vengeful master, broken and defeated was an even crueler punishment

How come Gandalf has the strength to survive a 100m+ fall but not strength to lift himself back onto the ledge?

>>82630702
Getting his body back would be a good start.

Seriously though? Not much would change, but there'd be no one left in Middle Earth who could kill him.

Was Gandalf's display of power as selective in the books as it was in the movies? Because Peter didn't bother to clarify the set of rules applied to him.

>>82630545
i thought "Sauron" meant something like "foul breath"

>>82630702

Sauron's nature was to dominate, so the Ring would enhance this ability in a number of ways.

>>82630731
He chose to chase and kill the Balrog because it didn't belong in the Third Age.

>>82630731
they landed in water, and the balrog probably broke the surface.

>>82630652
this desu

>>82630757
Like?
>>82630743
That's what the ring would have done?

>>82629942
The question was who was more tragic, Gollum is responsible for his actions and fate but i don't think that makes him any less tragic. I wouldn't compare him to orcs or Saruman or Sauron either. He must have been bad enough on the inside before he found it but still compared to what Gollum went through Boromir lived a good life and died well.

>>82630753
>Sauron (or Þauron (Thauron); Quenya; IPA: [ˈsaʊron] or Vanyarin; IPA: [ˈθaʊron] - "The Abhorred")

His "real" name was Mairon, which means "the admirable".

>>82630752
LotR movie Gandalf was pretty much spot-on magicwise

>>82630760
>>82630762
These are both some pretty big assumptions.

In the movies it looked like he didn't want to get dragged down into the hole.

>>82630764

It's left vague. Presumably, he would be restored to his full power, as he was in the previous age, and during a time when there was no race of Numenorean supermen or army of Elves around to stop him.

>>82630787
This is a bookfags answer moviefags' questions and you got your answer

>>82630709
Probably orcs, as they did in the Battle of Five Armies

Eagles are oversized on the movies

Found the actual quote "...not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens."
Then he dropped Gandalf to Edoras to get a horse
Thats like 1/10th of the distance between Rivendell and Mount Doom

I believe in the Hobbit they got 2 dwarves each but one got bombur alone because he was to heavy or something like that, dont have access to the book right now

>>82630787
The balrog is larger, obviously it hit the water first

>>82630840

You need some basic physics education, son.

>>82630832
Was Bombur even fat in the book?

Was Sauron always the strongest of the Maiar, or did following Melkor grant him extra strength? Or was it because of the creation of the Ring(s)? Or was it simply because the other Maiar had limits placed upon them in Middle Earth and he wouldn't be able to best them in Valinor?

>>82630840
jesus christ i hope you're trolling

>>82630876
Yes

>>82630876
Yes

there is NOTHING more comfy than /tv/ lotr lore threads

>>82630881
I think wiki mentioned something about him being a creation of that smith dude that made him more powerful than for example Gandalf

>>82630881
hard to say, but it would go with Eönwë being the strongest maiar, just because it's mentioned so often how cool he is.
but studying witchcraft under melkor gave him a stregth boost, as well as the creation of the ring(s), yes
non of the istari would have been able to beat sauron at his height even with no limits placed on them, maybe if they worked all together. (but it would have been an interesting fight)

>>82630876
Bombur's a pretty funny character in the book. The entire story the other dwarves give him shit for being fat.

>>82630899
>there is NOTHING more comfy than /tv/ lotr lore threads when you should actually get your ass up and do shit for university in your last few months there but the last semesters it was just the same and somehow worked out alright so that's your last hope

I liked the chapter with little people running through fields and forests without a care better desu

>>82630881

It's not clear. Likely Melian was stronger, since her Girdle kept an entire Elvish nation safe from both Sauron and Melkor, and certainly Curimir (Saruman) considered himself Sauron's equal at the very least (they were both Maiar of Alue the smith god before Sauron fell). By the time of the Lord of the Rings, he was certainly the strongest maia still in Middle Earth, the only two other really powerful ones were both terrified of him and hide from him to prevent themselves being dominated. The Wizards were innately powerful, but were intentionally "nerfed" during their mission to Middle Earth.

>>82630939
he wasn't a creation of him, he was just his Herald first, where he learned alot of Aules art, then he was corrupted by melkor

>>82630939

The Maiar weren't created by the Valar, they came into existence along with the rest of the world, created by Eru but shaped by the Song of the Valar. Also Alue (the smith dude) wasn't the mightiest of the Valar, that would be the sky god Oromoe, who was the patron of Gandalf.

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>tfw I finished Children of Hurin last week
>tfw that entire story

wtf lads

>>82630881
Sauron was the closest Maiar to Melkor so he most likely learnt the most, but he wasn't particularly strong so much as intelligent. I doubt many maiar would have bowed to the numenoreans like he did just so he could influence them from his prison.

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>watching the extended editions
>Gandalf's staff is broken by the Witch-King
Shouldn't have included that scene in the extended edition at all.

>>82629530
i love that theory so much

>>82630942
>>82630958
Thanks, about what I figured but I wasn't sure.

Man it's been over 15 years since I read LotR and the Silmarillion, I should really read them again sometime, it's been too long.

>>82631003
yeah that was some mighty fine bullshit

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>>82630994
>>82630982
>tfw no Maiar gf

>>82631005
>>82629530

It's not the "real" explanation for him, but it's the one that fits the narrative of the book as presented.

>>82627413
well you could also just bury it deep underground and sauron wouldn't know where it was, the point of the quest is to destroy sauron once and for all

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Turin.... had a hard life

>>82631020
>wanting a superhumanly perfect gf

Enjoy feeling incredibly inadequate.

>>82630599
He used to be a close friend of Theoden until Saruman corrupted him, and a hero of Rohan. Aragorn persuaded Theoden toblet Grima go because he knew tgat king will mourn the death of his son, he didnt wanted him to do it with blood of his former friend on his hands as well

>>82631032
>>82627413

They mention hiding the ring in the books, there were two reasons why it wasn't an option: Firstly, merely keeping the ring from Sauron wouldn't stop him, it would just mean it took him longer to conquer the world. Secondly, the ring had its own evil intelligence and was capable of influencing the world around it in some ways, its quite possible that it would find its way back to Sauron no matter how well you tried to hide it. The only reason it hand't already was because it was found and kept "safe" by a hobbit (Smegol) for thousands of years.

>>82631036
Does an orc feel inadequate raping an elf? No.

>>82631068
>implying you would survive an attempt to rape a maiar

Shit nigger, all she'd have to do was reveal her true form to you and you'd be blasted to nothingness.

>>82631036
>easy going hippy magic gf
>but also builds wall

I would be fine

Here's a legit plot hole.

How can they ride up the stairs and push the 100kg orcs around so easily?
Try riding a horse through 100 kg obstacles and see if the horse can push them or if the horse falls, totally unrealistic compared to horses strength IRL.

Are they "magic" horses or what?

>>82629357
Except he did care. The thing is you don't become 'corrupted by the ring' and then turn into Sauron. You turn into a brand new dark lord - one that isn't Sauron.

He feared Aragorn's Numenorean ancestry, and, a lesser reason in my opinion, that he would become corrupted and overthrew Sauron.

Think back to Gandalf and Galadriel saying that they would become wicked in their desire to do good

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>Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
>Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
>Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
>Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
>They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
>The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
>Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
>Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

>>82631097
What scene are you referring to

>>82631103
Because war horses with rider and armour weight over half a tonne?

>>82631103
Aragorn also carried the sword that fucked Sauron's shit up, so he was probably a bit buttflustered about that. He posed a threat against Sauron for many reasons, maybe having the ring was one of them, but ultimately he had the mandate to unite Anor and Gondor again and that would have threatened Sauron's plans (even in the long term).

>>82631097
Does your dumb tripfag ass even know what plothole is? Because it certainly aint that

>Eagles don't fucking count because the ring had to be transported to Mordor in SECRET. If Sauron even suspected that his enemies would try to destroy his ring it was game over.

Bullshit. The eagles are fast, and tough enough to not give a fuck about the Nazgul and their flying beasts (you can see them not giving a fuck in the movie).

>>82631076
you don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of defiling, you've got to make her/it want the dick. Then her true self, a total cockslut, is revealed and you get down to business.

So Gandalf is this half-God dude but he fights only with a sword and occasionally shines out some light with his staff.

His staff and his mystical abilities served no purpose really. Could have been replaced by any random dude.

>>82631156
How is that not a plot hole?
Horses are just magically strong in lotr so they can just ride into heavy armored orcs with no consideration?
That was never explained to me.

>>82631136
>>82631103

There's also the fact that Aragorn carried the weight of Destiny on his shoulders, and in a setting like Middle Earth that can be the greatest weapon you can hope for.

>>82631165
Thay also
1. Don't give a fuck about Sauron and all that jazz
2. Would be corrupted by the ring and tried to take it from Frodo

>>82631114
I started to doubt myself thinking it never happened, but here it is.

https://youtu.be/LOhXfTq-WAU?t=2m51s

>>82631176
He knew almost everything and everyone knew him, that is what saved Middle-Earth basically.

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>>82631113
Theoden is the best character in the movies desu

>Simbelmynë. Ever has it grown on the tomb of my forebears. Now it shall cover the grave of my son. Alas that these evil days should be mine. The young perish and the old linger. That I should live, to see the last days of my house.
>No parent should have to bury their child.

Gets me everytime

>>82631201
/thread

>>82631165

They were forbidden from interfering in mortal affairs by their master Manwe, the sky god. They occasionally offered minor assistance to Gandalf because he did them some unnamed favor in the past, they weren't at his beck and call as the movies suggest and considered Gandalf to be their peer, not their master.

>>82631216
No wonder, he got almost all of his lines straight from the book

>>82631186
Nigga draft horses weighted over a tonne, it is documented that specimens could reach 1,5 tonnes on mass
Sure war horses were not so massive and unwieldy but they werent your average equestrian horse either

>>82624466
imagine you and your spec-ops team had to carry a weapon so powerful that it could end the war with the push of a button. Imagine everyone in your spec-ops party being a bitter sour and hardened war veterans. Nobody speaks with one another and everyones thoughts just constantly revolve around the weapon.
The group would break under the pressure and you would get Boromir style backstabbing from everyone.
Jokers are extremely important for group moral in every military or group in general.
They literally give +20 moral boost.

Also they are small, can hide well, and are less prone to corruption than all other races

Sauron saw Aragorn as a threat because he was a strong leader, and could conceivably unite the peoples of the Middle Earth against him.

>>82631209
Gandalf's greatest ability wasn't beating up Balrogs or blinding Nazgûl, it was instilling hope in the hearts of men. He also carries Narya, one of the rings of power.

>>82631176
Gandalf is prevented from showing his true form to mortals, he is supposed to guide, not inspire fear, thats why he looks like grandpa. He only goes super sayian when there are no witnesses, like with Balrog

>>82631176

He's not a half god, he's an angel, like the other Wizards. The reason he was an old feeble man who didn't go around flinging fireballs left and right is because he was outright forbidden from doing anything but inspiring mortals to fight Sauron, he wasn't supposed to be the one fighting Sauron himself.

>>82631201
>you will NEVER have a dwarf bro

6' here and the shortest of my friends guess I should grow a beard out.

>>82631201

The horses of Rohan ARE magical, you thick cunt.

Thanks for the trip, filtered.

>>82631263
but why tho?

Was it literally all just a TV show for Eru?
if so was it kino?

>>82631274
you dutch or what

>>82624466

They were the heirs to the two greatest Hobbit clans, sure that's not impressive on the grand scale but they weren't nobodies.

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>>82625895
whoa! and i thought i was the only Toll- Kin
my preferred pronouns are it, they and toll-self

>>82631186
Plot hole is when cause and effect relationship fails int the script. This is just hollywood doing unrealistic movie shit so it would look nicer, but not a plothole

>>82631256
>>82631263
The whole idea behind Gandalf fighting the Balrog and winning is pretty funny. They're basically old colleagues; magical beings of similar rank. Gandalf wouldn't have sought out the balrog, but the balrog decided to fuck with Gandalf and that means he overstepped his boundaries. He attacked another maiar and had to be put in his place; this basically gave Gandalf mandate to fuck Durin's Bane up.

>>82631287

Because Eru is the Catholic god, and so he values free will.

>>82623558
they are just elves with evil injected into them, it's in their nature to be assholes

>>82631322

To be fair to the Balrog, he would have won if Gandalf didn't have his magic sword and ring. Even as it was, the fight was essentially a draw, with both ending up dead.

>>82631287
Yes, yes, the grey advertising-curtain turns all to blockbuster previews and is rolled back, and you behold great Kino and beyond that a far blue imageboard under a lousy moderation.

>>82631287
Because the gods interfered directly in the first age and it ended in a battle that destroyed half a continent, decided it's better just to give people a nudge in the right direction this time.

>>82623268

There actually was divine intervention at the end with Gollum tripping. Sauron's downfall was already decided before he was even a thing. None of what happened was the characters' own choice or doing. Have fun.

>>82631321
Biggest error I know if is a mini-plot hole
Hobbit's hand-ropes vanish when he's about to be trampled by the horse in Two Towers, and then reappear
https://youtu.be/TOqyK8BCD4U?t=69

>>82631351
>elfs of old slay balrogs by the dozens
>literal angel can't beat one without getting his own ass beat

bravo toll-kin

>>82631351
Gandalf got a promotion and a nice new set of threads from it though. I'd say he came out on top.

>>82631373
That's a continuity error, not a plothole, you daft dumb cunt

>>82631384
>Levelled up from the kill
>Looted sweet robes and staff

>>82631381

There's balrogs and balrogs. The one that lived in Moria was one of the most powerful of its kind.

>>82625969
projects the user in to the void (invisibility)
lets you read the minds of any user of the other bound magic rings and know their location.
chats to you with all kinds of neat promises.
+3 dexterity.

>>82631381
First age elves were op af, full of valinor juice.

>>82630435
>prosecuted

>>82631381
elfs of old where angry beyond reason

>>82631438
>Feanor literally burst into flame upon death he was so mad
What a hothead

>>82631291

Just a coincidence I guess, never had a gf shorter than 5'10 either.

>>82625946
Tolkien based lotr on the ring cycle though

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>be me
>be very dark and pretty boring
>be hanging around with my bros
>dad says we are going to create a world by singing
>neat, I love singing
>singing starts, throw my sick jams
>everyone gets angry over it and say they are ugly
>fuck you guys I liek my jams
>dad kicks me out of the band wtf
>leave home and be emo about singing by myself
>meet this big ass spider and hang around because at least she is some kind of company
>hear everyone talking about those amazing gems and want to see them too but I am banned
>friendly spider says will help me sneak in to have a look
>get in, turns out big spider is crazy bitch, kills the Two Trees and wants to eat the Silmarils
>wtf I didnt want this
>grab silmaris and run away, bitch spider chases me around
>manage to save 3 of them
>everyone thinks I stole them
>everyone hates me
>want to kill self but cant because immortal
>fuck this gay earth
>fuck everyone
>I just wanted to jam with my bros

>>82627109
hes an advisor, the struggle against evil is a force that shapes the world and it would be wasted if gandalf did all the work.
like if your dad were to help with your homework, not that he ever does.

>>82629812
i would have loved to see Ghân-buri-Ghân in the movies. All of the druedain were pretty entertaining

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there were plenty of other wizards in the book not mentioned

>>82631575
Jackson got a lot of the races of man wrong though like Dunlendings and arguably the haradrim. Beorn is pretty shit in the hobbit as well, I guess Jackson couldn't envision white men as primitives.

>>82630984
i would like it to see adapted into a stageplay, with the roles played by shakespearean actors. It would be great.
A hollywood movie adaption would absolutely fucking butcher it

>>82631695
How so?
The books dont give away much about the looks of those races, I think Hackson did a good Job with what he had

>>82631003
i fucking hated that scene!

What would have happened if Pippin hadn't dropped that armour down the well like a tit, would the whole fellowship have made it through Moria unscathed?

>>82631695
neither can white people unless your a self hating cuck, fucking faggot

why gandalf didn't just teleported the ring to mordor?

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>Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
>Fell deeds awake, fire and slaughter!
>spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
>a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
>Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

>>82631775
He has given away his tp device to Littlefinger

Here's a plot hole. Every race has an origin story, except for hobbits. Where did they come from?

>>82623173
Legitimate plothole is gollum continuing to live on for decades after losing the ring even though he'd lost it. Meanwhile after Biblo gives up the ring he ages really fast within the span of a year and is damn near dead by the time he got on the boat to sail across the sea.

>>82631640
>plenty

You mean two? They were mentioned in other books, and in the appendixes of Lord of the Rings.

Why do you put your single weakness on your finger and try to grab your enemies with the said finger's hand?

>>82631789
>Stern now was Éomer's mood, and his mind clear again. He let blow the horns to rally all men to his banner that could come thither; for he thought to make a great shield-wall at the last, and stand, and fight there on foot till all fell, and do deeds of song on the fields of Pelennor, though no man should be left in the West to remember the last King of the Mark. So he rode to a green hillock and there set his banner, and the White Horse ran rippling in the wind.

> Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
> I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
> To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
> Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!

>These staves he spoke, yet he laughed as he said them. For once more lust of battle was on him; and he was still unscathed, and he was young, and he was king: the lord of a fell people. And lo! even as he laughed at despair he looked out again on the black ships, and he lifted up his sword to defy them.

>>82631722

The Dunlendings are based on the Silures, they should be swarthy and dark-haired.

>>82631809
Bilbo didn't spend hundreds of years with the ring either, just a few decades. He also lived comfortably in Bag End rather than running around in the wilds like some animal.

>>82631739

The Balrog would have come for them anyway, and the orcs didn't actually cause them much hardship.

>>82631809
>he ages really fast within the span of a year

Wrong!

>>82631807

Literally addressed in the books. They're a type of human.

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bravo tolkien

>>82631813

He was one arrogant shit so probably that's why.

>>82631844
what about when the orcs absolutely surrounded the fellowship with about 400x as many troops

>>82631852
I 100% don't remember that. So how did that come about? Too many shortstacks? Flouride in the water?

>>82631852
>short guys should just go for short girls

Was Tolkien an epic memelord?

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>>82631811

>>82631874

How many of the fellowship did they kill or even injure?

>>82631403
what? were does it say that?
also Gothmog, the most powerful one, was slain by an elf

>>82631909
A very angry elf

>>82631908
well the balrog rocked up and scared them all away so they didnt harm any of them

Bane

>>82631880

It's not mentioned and is something of a mystery to the people of Middle Earth. They lived in ancient times alongside the ancestors of the Rohirrim, and were already a distinct people by then.

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did they do it

>>82631909

Ecthelion wasn't just "an elf", and he only managed to kill Gothmog by literally dragging him down into a bottomless well to their mutual doom.

>>82631930
Frodo and Sam had the very definition of a Platonic relationship, as defined by Platon himself.

>two men
>don't bang, but love eachother on a spiritual level like only men are capable of

>‘Where are you going, Master?’ cried Sam, though at last he understood what was happening.
>‘To the Havens, Sam,’ said Frodo.
>‘And I can’t come.’
>‘No, Sam. Not yet anyway, not further than the Havens. Though you too were a Ring-bearer, if only for a little while.

anyone else annoyed by this? elves give access to 'heaven' to frodo but not to sam. sam did as much as frodo and probably even more to destroy the world but he got screwed at the end.

even bilbo goes heaven, who used the ring for jokes and shit

>>82631948
>literally dragging him down into a bottomless well to their mutual doom.
>>82631918
This is what I mean

A reasonable person (or Gandalf at this point) has reasonable priorities
1 protect his companions
2 protect himself
3 fend off powerful opponent
4 ensure mission goes on

Noldor priorities were pretty much
1 stab them in the dick
2 if you make it find another one and stab him in the dick too
3 when dead piss on gods

>>82631998
>Not yet anyway
Key phrase. Sam went to the West (Valinor I guess) when he was an old man and his wife had died n shit.

>>82631998
Sam goes after he raises his children and Rosie died of old age, he can't just abandoned his family like a nigger.

>>82631998

The Undying Lands aren't heaven. Humans already have the Gift of Death, and of actual heaven afterwards, the reason the ring bearers were permitted to travel into the West was because the wounds they had received from the ring couldn't be healed anywhere in middle earth.

I am not sure if eagles are plot hole or not but they are deus ex machina of tolkien. Gandalf trapped somewhere? send the eagles. frodo can't make it back? eagles. the team shorties stuck on the tree? fucking eagles.

>>82631998
"Sam was also elected mayor of the Shire for seven consecutive seven-year terms. After his wife's death, he also took a ship to Valinor, since he was briefly a ringbearer."

he went to valinor

even gimli goes there (or just Tol eressa, i don't recall) with legolas when he's an ancient dwarf

>>82631722
The Dunlendings are fully mail clad vikings basically not a wild rabble. They get tricked by Saruman but when they discover the Rohirrim are good men they are pretty affable.

>>82631754
Thats how all Tolkien's men started out, as white primitives called Edain.

>>82632074
>The Dunlendings are fully mail clad vikings basically not a wild rabble.

No, not even close. They're wild Welsh hillmen, based on the Silures (a tribe from southern Wales in Roman times that was remarkable for their swarthyness and their fierce warlike natures).

>>82632069
>>82632039
>>82632054
>>82632062
oh thanks, I was feeling sad for the little guy for such a long time.

>>82632062
what DOES happen with the elves in the halls of mandos? Do they have to wait until the world ends?
i'm pretty sure, hobbits share the mysterious fate of men, since they are just a subclass of humans
but what happens with dwarfes? do they have an afterlife?

>>82632074

Not all humans descend from the Edain, only the Numenoreans do.

>>82632074
the only thing close to blacks were orcs god it was good no diversity in it they will never make a film like that again

>>82632107
>what DOES happen with the elves in the halls of mandos

It depends on the elf. Some are forced to wait to the ends of the world there, but most are reborn as new Elves. Generally only the most prideful and "sinful" Elves are denied reincarnation.

>what happens with dwarfes? do they have an afterlife?

They go to the halls of Alue their creator, and there wait out the rest of history as observers before ceasing to exist along with the Elves.

>>82630606
IIRC there is a passage that says something like

"in the war, the only race that was undivided were the Elves", implying that orcs fought on both sides

>>82632147

Indeed, and that even the Dwarves had some who followed Melkor.

>>82632054
but i guess he can get cucked by frodo

>>82632147
>the only race that was undivided were the Elves

I guess the three kinslayings were just friendly banter

Who created that god that created universe? What is the point of their planet and all those races? what is the point of living in their universe? Is it all about killings and agony , good vs evil ?

>>82632092
>Wild welsh hillmen
>using battleaxes and roundshields

You didn't read TTT did you?

>>82632188
yes

>>82632184

Undivided in terms of the war against Melkor, not against one another.

We need a new thread lads