Mark Hamill: I fundamentally disagree with virtually everyth

>>82156212
he got killed off and is butthurt

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>>82156212
ayy lmao it's gonna be a trainwreck isn't it?

Luke turned to the dark side / wants the jedi to die

This is the end for you my master.

If you listen to some of hamill's interviews he kinda wanted luke to be like some sort of sentimental and caring grandfather figure.

I like the guy but he's not a writer.

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Everything must be ruined.

>>82156423
so he wanted Luke to become Obi Wan in the original trilogy?

>>82156212
Who cares what an actor thinks how a character should be written.

Also he had major issues with George in Return of the Jedi too.
He had some autistic idea of an "evil clone Luke" made from his chopped of arm, not making this up.

Also everyone is taking this way out of context because in the next sentence he is sucking Ryans cock how much he overpraised the dude.

>>82156423
I dont give a shit what you think

>>82156465

No, more hammy. Think a cheesy teen action flick or the shitty ending scene from the fight club book

>>82156366
>letting actors decide the direction of the character they play
no, THAT would be a trainwreck

>>82156377
Hamill actually wanted Luke to turn to the dark side. Johnson probably turned Luke into Yoda/Obi-Wan 2.0.

>>82156541
jesus...maybe he should be killed off before he actually manages to influence the script

Mark Hamill is a mediocre actor riding a nostalgia wave and constantly bitching 24/7 about literally everything he doesn't like. If he wasn't an "actor" he would be a fat annoying asshole on facebook that everyone ignores.

>>82156497

>putting actors on a pedestal

>>82156468

Hamill is a smart guy he clearly knows he's not the writer and gives the directors benefit of the doubt, he just seems more upset that they don't care about his ideas and ignore him.

>>82156212

GIB MONIE

They already ruined Luke by portraying him as a pussy ass bitch that went into hiding after Kylo (somehow) killing his students. What more can they do to his character that's not already done?

>>82156343
this

but its a shit decision so rightfully so

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>>82156212
>That awkward scene cut every 5 seconds
Please don't shill your u-tube on 4chan mister

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>>82156212
UNJUSTl

>>82156660
I actually feel really stupid now that you mention this. Why the fuck didn't Luke kill Kylo?

>>82156212

holy fuck an actor being honest

>>82156764

If this was my video and it already had half a million views, why would I "shill" it on a Nepalese basket-weaving forum?

>>82156764
>>That awkward scene cut every 5 seconds

You've never seen a compilation of any kind?

>>82156377
>implying that would be a good thing

Yeah, literally fuck the entire character development in the old trilogy cause Luke would look cool with a red lightsaber.

>>82157073
Because then there'd be no movie

>>82157073

Why didn't Obi-Wan kill Darth Vader?

>>82157393
he thought he did, just couldn't deal the finishing blow

>>82157370
nah that's cheap, at least explain it away, I hope they do in the third

>>82156423

Instead he's a guy who has lost all hope and ran away for 30 years, negating everything that happened in the original trilogy. It's fucking terrible. Abrams pushed a reset button and the characters are back to square one. It fucking sucks.

>>82157393
Because he was a good friend

>>82157426
>he thought he did

Bullshit.

>>82157456
>negating everything that happened in the original trilogy

Something that happens in the future cannot "negate" the original trilogy.

>>82157456
It's almost like life is full of hills and valleys.

>>82156212
Who tf is this?

>>82157507
dude was dismembered and literally burning to death near magma. He was pretty fucking dead unfortunately Palpatine (who Obi Wan though Yoda had killed) showed up and saved Anakin

>>82157456

>Abrams pushed a reset button and the characters are back to square one.

Kind of like Empire Strikes Back. Dipshit.

>It fucking sucks.

Cry more, fag.

>luke tried to lead the new Jedi order after RotJ
>didn't realize in time that one of his students was turning to the dark side
>that causes the Empire to return in a new form
>luke blames himself
>goes into recluse bc he sees himself and Jedi as a negative influence on the universe
>hence the infamous line from the trailer

The only thing that makes sense and is inline with the ending of RotJ. The whole "Luke is a sith" theory is kind of dumb and edgy.

>>82157557
Heath Ledger as the Joker before they put the makeup on.

>>82156212
He's spot on. Star Wars is fucking terrible now.

Why does Mark Hamill's face always looks like he walked through poison ivy or something?

>>82158073
cause cameras are really good and he doesn't wear a cake

>>82158073
I'd be willing to look like that if I was going through Poison Ivy everyday if you know what I mean?

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will Luke have taken the Kreiapill in episode 8?

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>>82158463

After most of these quotes the video goes on to him saying that once he saw what the director was actually going for he was on board. This video is just crap editing

>>82156212
Luke really should've had a bigger/borderline had one at all and should've had Luke, Leia & han together one last time. honestly the whole idea of Luke fucking off instead of dealing with his mistake after ROTJ seems dumb as shit

>>82158565
T H I S

>>82156564
>t. pleb

>>82158598

He was talking about episode 8, not 7.

>>82158565
>>82158617
Shill-kun, I realize you are being paid by the post, but try not to make it so obvious.

The fanboyism in this thread is pathetic. They can't defend TFA so they just blurt out "UH NO U"

>>82156343
I'd be pissed too if I'm being replaced with a Mary Sue played by a shit actress, like Daisy Ridley

>>82158769
>this is his legacy
feels kind of bad man

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>>82156660
Well, this?
I doubt Hamill was happy with decision, and they surely expanded on why he turned into a pussy in the new movie, which is what he probably disagreed with.

>>82158769
Really? Because I'd be sort of happy if I was rescued from acting limbo and given millions to reprise a superflous role in an otherwise new trilogy.

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>>82158721
>Shill-kun
You got it, SENPAI!!! DESUUUUU

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>>82158845
You almost fit in, but not quite.

>>82157562
>who Obi Wan though Yoda had killed
That's a stupid ass assumption to make.

>>82158742
>1$ deposited to your account

>>82158598
>Luke never reunites with Han and Leia
>At most he gets to see Chewbacca and maybe C3PO

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>>82156465
The character of Obi-Wan Kenobi in Lucas's original draft was called "General Luke Skywalker." He an old Toshiro Mifune type.

The character of Luke was called "Annikin Starkiller."

There's a wonderful comic series that draws Lucas's original draft from 1975. It came out the year before Disney bought Star Wars. It has lots of influence from the 1930s serials and the 1970s science ficiton zine illustration. It's fucking great.

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>>82158463
based

>but i will still do the movies because muh paycheck

No point pretending you have any integrity if you don't actually follow through

>>82158963
>That's a stupid ass assumption to make.
Yoda is like a God to Obi Wan, he beat Anakin so I actually think Obi Wan could think that Yoda beat the emperor. and again Obiwan was pretty sure he had killed Anakin

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>>82158463
>Kreiapill

You mean take no pill at all

>>82159259
Is Stirner the biggest spook of them all?

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>>82159170
It's the last worthwhile Star Wars product I've seen. You see how his ideas evolved. Originally the character of Anakin Skywallker/Darth Vader was three characters:

The religious Sith lord aspect of Darth Vader was the character of "Prince Valorum," master of the dark side of the force and the emperors right hand man. An ok villain. Lucas used the word Sith a lot.

The SS-type military officer/enforcer who goes in and fucks shit up and turns good at the end when he realizes what the empire was doing is wrong was called Darth Vader. He's not related to anyone. Lucas wrote in the notes to his draft that the character is like a Green Beret who decides to join the Vietcong because he realizes what the USA was doing in Vietnam was wrong. Aspects of this made it into Lucas's ideas for Apocalypse Now. He's just one General of many, a military man.

Finally, the apprentice of the old General (called Luke but who became Obi-Wan), who was the main protagonist's father and half man half robot, was called Kane Starkiller (who became Anakin Skywalker)

Kane Starkiller is alive at first, and he trains Annikin, but when the Sith come he seeks out his old master Luke Skywalker, and die sacrificing himself to save the others.

So you see Darth Vader was Valorum, Darth Vader, and Kane Starkiller all in one. First Lucas combines his two villains, then he makes the young Jedi's father dead sooner, then he makes him be the main villain.

>>82159307
yeah but mark hamill is old and weird and sucks

>>82156564
That's exactly what happened to the new Ghostbusters, 80% of the dialog is just improv and it shows.

>>82159382
You suck.

>all the disney shills itt
I've never seen so many of them in one thread before. It's kind of breathtaking actually.

>>82159382
I never liked him. He's a great voice actor, but honestly I think the main guy from Battlestar Galactica Richard Hatch would've been a better Luke Skywalker in the 70s.

I don't consider these new movies to be real Star Wars. Disney just paid Lucas money for the rights to that brand name. It's like the ship of theseus. At this point it's not Stars Wars anymore to me. So I don't give a shit about him or these stupid new movies.

But the original draft I consider to be all Star Wars, because it's Lucas's unfiltered original ideas, from Kurosawa and Flash Gordon. It's pure, uncut heroin from the poppy fields.

>>82158837

it's obviously not a superfluous role but i agree, also daisy is clearly a better actor than mark

>>82159395
There's a difference between improv with good and bad actors, anon.

>>82159526
Come on now. Ridley is high school play tier bad.

>>82159538
A line here and there is one thing, but when your entire movie goes off script every 2 seconds because one of them did a funny the script may as well not even exist. The whole thing felt like a bad SNL sketch.

>>82159638
That's because they were incompetent hacks.

>>82157073
That would bastardize his character even more, anon. Luke doesn't kill family.

Why is he talking shit about his own movie *before* it is even released? What does he stand to gain from this?

>>82158837
>acting limbo
>mark hamill

k

>>82159723
He can afford to be honest because Disney can't do shit against him.

Firing ''Luke'' would backfire hard

actors are the least important part of a film. Only plebeians care about them.

>star wars thread

oh, of course. Nothing but brainlet tourists itt

>>82159307
Also a lot of this went into Phantom Menace. Annikin falls in love with Princess Leia. Leia is like Queen Amidala, and Annikin is like Anakin. There are two jedi, an old master and a young apprentice, protecting a princess whose planet has been invaded.

You know that scene of the Plinkett review where he says the character of Qui-gonn Jin and Obi-Wan should have been combined into a new character called Obi-Wan Kenobi? Well, that's what Lucas's original draft was. It's about one Jedi master protecting the princess on planet Aquilae and finding Anakin.

But I think Lucas wanted that older jedi and younger master dynamic from his original script.

So in the first movie Qui-Gonn fills in the role of Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan is the character of Annkin Starkiller. Master and apprentice protect the princess. But in the first draft the young apprentice and princess fall in love.

So then by the second and third movies the character of Obi-Wan Kenobi plays the role of General Luke Skywalker and Anakin Skywalker plays Annikin Starkiller.

Princess Leia plays Queen Amidala. She becomes a queen by the end of the movie. She was never a Senator.

>>82159561

no she's not and the acting in the OT was mostly terrible

>>82159561

mark hamill is high school play tier bad, this is not up for debate whatsoever

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>>82159806
>>82159839

>>82159761

no you're right, he was really setting the world on fire

ask someone to name an a-list actor and the first name out of their mouths will undoubtedly be "mark hamill, the actor who's been in many famous movies that are not star wars"

>>82159802
And that's not even including the first draft, which almost the same as the rough draft, except all the names are changed.

A-2 was changed from Artoo

C-3 was changed from Threepio

Dodona was changed from General Valorum

Boma was changed from Chewbacca, who is half Chewbacca and half Wicket.

Hu Tho was changed from Owen Lars, who is a settler on the Wookie planet during the Ewok/Wookie scenes.

Ngai Thuc was changed from Seig Darklighter - noticed the Vietnam influence

Akira Valor was changed from Kane Starkiller

Justin Valor was changed from Annikin Starkiller

Princess Zara was changed from Princess Leia

Then when he did his rewrite he changed most of these names back.

>>82159709
hm...you know what you're right about that. Thanks anon..maybe he could've captured him or something but eh

>>82156468
You mean Luuke Skywalker?

>>82156212

He's right to be angry, as is the sequels basically being copies of the OT as a soft reboot literally undermine the better movies.

but that was guaranteed to happen once lucas sold to disney, and a good chunk of people here including hard Otfags are to blame.

>>82159883

it isn't "bait." most people aren't autistic enough to sit here and "troll" people they don't even know.

whether you think i'm trolling or whether you just can't come up with a good reply, either way you're a fucking retard

Please identify which of these you consider to be "good acting"

1. Luke when Vader said "I am your father"
2. Leia when Luke tells her she's his sister
3. Luke on the hologram talking to Jabba the Hutt
4. Han talking to C3PO while in Ewok custody

>>82160150
I wonder if people for a moment thought "if there's a sequel trilogy it will be a remake/reboot of the OT"

I have a feeling not a single person alive besides a few jews thought of that.

>Lucas was ultra autistic about his characters
>Hamill got all infos about Luke from him and so has a clear idea on what kind of human he is
>instead of respecting that Disney writers and directors make up their own shit

Mark Hamil was also signed on for The Killing Joke.

A SJW Safe Space version that butchered the comic, but "he loved the script".

>>82156423
>he kinda wanted luke to be like some sort of sentimental and caring grandfather figure.
There's nothing particularly wrong with that, though.

>>82160150
>He's right to be angry

he obviously isn't, unless this is more of his "great acting"

>the sequels basically being copies of the OT

having a desert planet and a big spherical weapon does not make TFA a "copy" of ANH

>literally undermine the better movies

they literally don't. if something is a good movie nothing can "undermine" it simply by existing

>a good chunk of people here including hard Otfags are to blame.

literally no one on this board is to blame at all, also "OTfags" are more commonly known as "star wars fans" or "normal people who like the OT more than PT" or "heterosexuals"

>>82160188
u r autist

>>82160209

>sell something
>moan when the new owners don't do exactly what you want with it

"making up your own shit" is also known as "writing"

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>>82160355

>>82160377
I bet you're the same kinda guy that whines about fanfiction.

Man, I love Hamill. If there is one actor who deserves to be back in the spotlight, it´s him. His grumpiness is a consequence of lucidity and experience. He´s not Harrison Ford and his tiresome smug old star shtick . Hamill´s grumpiness comes from a clever and honest place. And I hate fucking Star Wars.

>>82160411
>filename
now that is autistic

>>82160419

what? did you mean to respond to the person i replied to? otherwise your post makes no sense.

>>82160436

how? if you save the image directly and try to post it it'll tell you it's already been posted

>>82160338

People just like you wanted Lucas to sell the franchise, do you deny it?

Taken out of context: The video

>>82157543
kill yourself
when somethings stupidly unrealistic:
>lol its just a movie bro turn ur brain off
when shitty storytelling happens
>but that can happen in real life sometimes

>>82160492

you need to step back and re-evaluate what you're doing with your life, i honestly mean no offense by this

>>82160491
>he doesn't know

>>82157577
That's probably where they're going but it doesn't make a lot of sense for Luke to make the same kind of mistake Obi-Wan and Yoda did. The way Snoke takes Ben/Kylo and in turn his Order out from under him makes Luke look uncharacteristically imperceptive. And the idea that that alone is enough for him to give up on the Jedi seems a bit flimsy to me too. I'm all for Luke still having flaws, but these don't seem to be the right ones.

>>82160535

it's almost as if the rest of the world isn't all one person but rather it's different people saying those things

>>82160338
the sequels are a cancer and the imbeciles that keep defending TFA and the cells.
They hated the shitty prequels so much (see reddit lettermedia) that they defend TFA out of spite.
You should be all hunted down and neutered

>>82160550

yikes

why do you keep replying to me lol

>>82160572
why is everything "almost as if" something to you? are you brain damaged?

>>82160609
autistic

>>82160535
>stupidly unrealistic
So like the original movies?
>when shitty storytelling happens
Leia's my sister!

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>>82160598

>They hated the shitty prequels so much that they defend TFA out of spite.

>>82156343
Unless the entire movie is Luke-centric as fuck there is no way in hell they'd do that

>>82160540
>you need to reevaluate your life!!
stop projecting. you are literally on full defense for for nu-starwars and disney. they can do no wrong in your eyes. you're an embarrassment.

>>82160628

this is not a cogent response and i'm not the person who posted the comment you replied to

>>82159769
I guess the consequence for doing something like that is more like you will get blacklisted for being a "difficult" actor, and you wont get any more roles. It's a pretty unprofessional thing to do. But he's old anyway so I guess he doesn't want any more roles? All I know him from recently is voicing the Joker

>>82160698

>you are literally on full defense for for nu-starwars and disney. they can do no wrong in your eyes.

i haven't said anything that would remotely suggest that

you're the one who seems to give a massive shit about this shit

>Just ADMIT IT! You DEMONS wanted George Lucas to sell Lucasfilm!

no one gives a fuck about that you weirdo

>>82160205
When i heard Disney bought Star Wars i worried about it a bit but i knew it would never happen. The Star Wars series is too far gone to start hard rebooting now.

>>82160205

good thing it wasn't

>>82160562

>doesn't make a lot of sense for Luke to make the same kind of mistake Obi-Wan and Yoda did.

Doesn't make sense for the First Order to build yet another Death Star either. We're dealing with turbo-hacks here.

>>82157366
The original trilogy was supposed to end with Luke turning, lol.

>>82156212
the most interesting part of that video was when Hamill says that they signed up before they knew that Disney was at all involved
he got tricked

the transformers comparison was brutal

>>82159709
He killed his own dad in a fit of rage.

>>82157570
>Kind of like Empire Strikes Back
In what sense?

>>82157366

>Yeah, literally fuck the entire character development in the old trilogy cause Luke would look cool with a red lightsaber.

>the only interesting thing about that would be luke having a red lightsaber

fuck your shitty imagination

by character development do you mean "being a protagonist"? lol

if you browse /sp/ you see they know more about sports than most, /lit/ is more well-read, etc

the same can't be said of /tv/

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Based

>>82160209
George can't write for shit anyway so why does that matter?

>>82161043

the fact that they defeated the empire then in ESB they were on the ropes again

not sure why i need to explain this

>>82160933
But it ended with Luke rejecting the Dark Side entirely. You have seen RotJ, right?
>>82161055
But he's right. It was actual character development. Luke has a pretty overt character arc.

>>82159802
>a lot of this went into Phantom Menace
To me, that's one of the weirdest things about the development of TPM, and it's something people almost never talk about. The first few drafts of Star Wars (including the one the comic was based on) were pretty much direct ripoffs of The Hidden Fortress. Part of the reason he ended up changing the final versions so much was to make them less obvious copies. Going by the conversations he had with Kurtz and some of his friends, he wanted to develop something that was more on an original story.

Twenty years later, he was writing the script for TPM, and he basically ended up reusing his first draft for Star Wars. Aside from a few changes (locations, splitting the old Jedi/General into two characters), it's the same story. Instead of coming up with a new idea, he just ended up recycling concepts he'd discarded two decades previously. It was like he forgot there were reasons he kept working on that script in the first place.

>>82161104

good people never doubt themselves or stray from their path or become corrupted, great point dickweed

>>82161093
How is destroying a ship defeating the Empire?

>>82156212

Where the fuck does he even say that?

>>82161178

i knew someone was going to sperg out about the word "defeated," please just fucking kill yourself

I care very little about Star Shit but I honestly believe none of the actors in the original trilogy could fucking act. The idiot who played Han Solo, forgot his name and I won't search it, got better, but Hamil is still as green as he was in A New Hope, and watching him try to be funny in interviews and cons is honestly cringeworthy. He's a lucky nobody.

>>82161174
It's not about it being impossible; it's about whether it's worth trading in the satisfying completeness of one arc for another that's completely at odds with it and subverts it. It's a difficult thing to sell to the audience and it can be jarring thematically or redundant depending on what they're doing with the story.

I'm skeptical of a "Luke is corrupt" or "Luke gives up" story being anything more than a tool for Rey's character and convenient setting garnishing. I could be wrong and it might be rather fluid, but I doubt it.

>>82161241
How is asking you to clarify your argument "sperging out?" Why did you bother posting if replies were going to upset you this much?

>>82161198
In OP's imagination.

>>82156212
>Why does Mark Hamill's face always looks like he walked through poison ivy or something?

he had a carcrash right before shooting ESB. I think that's why the cave scene on Hoth was for, to explain the scar.

>>82156212
Maybe if this disgusting fat fuck could keep the weight off they wouldn't have needed to kill him off

>>82161527
he can just wear fake a mustache and play his son Luuke in the sequels

>>82161393

>How is asking you to clarify your argument "sperging out?"

because you know exactly the idea i was convey you faggot, it didn't need to be "clarified"

>it's about whether it's worth trading in the satisfying completeness of one arc for another that's completely at odds with it

you don't have to "trade in" anything. the original trilogy exists, it's good, and any future films can't change that.

>>82161605

*conveying

>>82161605
I didn't know that you didn't mean defeated. It seems clarification was appropriate since you actually meant something different. Do you disagree?

>>82161241
kill yourself reddit, you can't defend your pathetic, ignorant opinion.

>>82161671

i did mean defeated

>>82161518
I think you should shut the fuck up

>>82161996

>reddit

yikes

please tell me how my opinion is "pathetic and ignorant"

>>82161518

that's an apocryphal explanation

you'll still watch it anyway

>>82162033
Then I return to my previous question: How is destroying a ship defeating the Empire?

YOU'RE STILL GOING TO WATCH IT FAGGOT HAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>82161605
>and any future films can't change that.
Sure, but these new movies are still sequels that are beholden to previous movies. The question is whether "evil Luke" would be an interesting, graceful direction for the story to take given everything else TFA has built up and needs to deal with and where we left Luke in RotJ. I very much doubt it.

In reality I think Luke will just be depressed and resistant to training someone more than he'll be corrupt or evil anyway, but the circumstances that got the story to this point are pretty clumsy. TFA blundered its way through setting up the new conflict, and I doubt VIII and IX will be able to provide satisfying answers to the holes in the backstory.

>>82162140

1. would you agree that the confederacy defeated the union in the battle of fort sumter?

2. we were discussing this from a filmmaking standpoint rather than a story standpoint, someone lamented the supposed fact that disney "rebooted" star wars and "sent everyone back to square one" by virtue of continuing the struggle between good and evil rather than having the rebels victory in ROTJ stand unquestioned for until the end of time. i pointed out that ANH was a self contained story in which good triumphed over evil and that a similar criticism could've been leveled at ESB. then you sperged out like a faggot and now here we are

>>82162444
You're just a fucking idiot.

Hamill looks like someone beat his face with the butt-end of a light saber. he needs to die in the next film, and his death should be from something embarrassing like Jawa venieral disease.

>>82156468

Everyone takes the issues he had with ROTJ out of context. He thought when making those movies they wouldn't be ending at ROTJ. After Star Wars was a hit they were going to make 4 more movies. He didn't want Luke to turn evil, he wanted it to be a struggle, a challenge and have to be turned back or really make a choice. Not just be the stoic powerful Jedi.

Lots of stuff was dropped that they were setting up to wrap it up in one movie.

>>82162513

i win.

>>82157562
And Obi Wan left him screaming.

Seriously, he could've chopped the guy's head off or something just to put him out of his misery.

>Hamill repeatedly giving away that Luke dies in this film

Why hasn't Hollywood murdered him yet?

>>82162444
If Disney had chosen to have the Empire not die with the Emperor, they could have done this. That's essentially the stance taken in the extended universe.

Instead, they wanted things both way. So the Empire was defeated and made largely irrelevant. So much so that the New Republic felt comfortable ignoring them entirely and necessitating that Leia reboot the rebellion to continue a fight that had, for all intents and purposes, already been won.

Then, the new Empire is shown to be uniquely capable, building even larger, more powerful weapons than when they were a galaxy spanning super power. They then use these weapons to destroy the New Republic, leaving Leia's rebellion as the only fighting force in the galaxy capable of opposing them.

This is not equivalent to the ending of a New Hope, in which only the Empire's new battlestation is destroyed. But we already knew the Empire was a great threat even before the Death Star. And Vader is clearly seen escaping to fight another day.

It is the contrived series of events TFA concocted to return to the OT's status quo that is being criticized.

>>82156212
>$0.02 have been deposited in your account

>>82162650
>This is not equivalent to the ending of a New Hope, in which only the Empire's new battlestation is destroyed.

if ANH was the only SW film to ever get released, do you think people would be saying, "they only destroyed their NEW BATTLESTATION! where's the rest of this story???"

>>82162552
Or he gets rekt by Kylo the pusspuss

File: adam-driver-0720-3005493-01.jpg (465KB, 2500x1664px) Image search: [Google]

465KB, 2500x1664px

>>82163120
>Kylo will never wreck your pusspuss

>>82163007
A story doesn't need to end with the total defeat of the enemy. It can simply be the story of when the tide was turned. A continuation is not necessary for this to be true.

Regardless, it isn't relevant. Empire establishes that the Empire was not defeated. By contrast, TFA establishes that the Empire was, in fact, defeated. But somehow after this defeat gathered the resources to become more effective than ever.

Again, it is the contrived series of events established in TFA in an effort to return the rebellion to its underdog status that is being criticized. The stories in the EU went the other direction, leaving the Empire a credible threat despite the death of the Emperor.

>>82163258
>A story doesn't need to end with the total defeat of the enemy. It can simply be the story of when the tide was turned.

name 5 movies that fit that description which don't have sequels

>Regardless, it isn't relevant. Empire establishes that the Empire was not defeated

we're talking about how people would've reacted to ESB at the time you utter knuckledragger, your argument is circular

>By contrast, TFA establishes that the Empire was, in fact, defeated. But somehow after this defeat gathered the resources to become more effective than ever.

which means by your definition of "defeated," they weren't defeated. are you really positing that it's inconceivable that after ROTJ an evil cohort would ever fight the republic again

>Again, it is the contrived series of events established in TFA in an effort to return the rebellion to its underdog status that is being criticized.

no, it's not. this is the godforsaken post i originally replied to:

>Instead he's a guy who has lost all hope and ran away for 30 years, negating everything that happened in the original trilogy. It's fucking terrible. Abrams pushed a reset button and the characters are back to square one. It fucking sucks.

your subsequent outburst of unfettered asperger's syndrome is not relevant or interesting

>>82156423
That fits Luke's character, though.

>>82163258
You're talking to a brick wall. Give it a rest.

>>82156212
>Mark Hamill
Literally who?

>>82156423
Literally everyone has their own headcanon and view of characters, especially of someone as prominent as Luke, it's just that I prefer the one from the actor who played him and had to get into the role and mindser, to the one some edgy director conjured up to drive sales for Disney.

If they kill Luke I'm not watching the next one. SW is Luke Skywalker to me and will always be.

>>82163796
I guarantee you said "I'm not watching the next one" after each prequel, TFA and Rogue One

>>82163509
>name 5 movies that fit that description which don't have sequels
Virtually any war movie ever made.

>we're talking about how people would've reacted to ESB at the time you utter knuckledragger, your argument is circular
No, we aren't. We are talking about what is an appropriate continuation of a story and what isn't.

>which means by your definition of "defeated," they weren't defeated. are you really positing that it's inconceivable that after ROTJ an evil cohort would ever fight the republic again
Actually, I'm using Disney's definition of defeated. The Empire is gone in TFA. They have no meaningful military presence and the New Republic has opted to ignore them entirely. And yet somehow, they've amassed the resources to construct not only a larger Death Star, but one that is immensely more powerful, capable of destroying multiple planets, light years away, simultaneously.

These are incompatible positions. The Empire cannot be powerful enough to do this while also left completely unmolested by the New Republic. The only reason this scenario was concocted was leave Leia's rebellion as the last stalwart against the New Empire and put the good guys back in the underdog position.

It isn't about an appropriate continuation of the story and exploring developing themes as they did in Empire. Instead, it's about wiping the slate clean and leaving the Empire and Rebellion roughly in the same place they were three movies ago, going through the same motions.

>no, it's not. this is the godforsaken post i originally replied to
And then I responded to you and we started a new conversation. If you're uncomfortable with this you can simply not respond.

>your subsequent outburst of unfettered asperger's syndrome is not relevant or interesting
Can you explain why you've decided to frequent a forum while being this hostile to discussion?

>>82163821
The only prequel I watched in the theater was PM.

I watched the others twice each, on marathons with family/friends. But I don't care about the prequels.

>>82163861

idgaf about any of that, you don't want to admit you were wrong, it's fine, it happens to the best of us

>>82163007
ANH leaves the Empire around but it's a rather thematically complete movie and rather self-contained (naturally) and satisfying on its own. It's obvious that Vader is going to still be a threat and that Luke isn't exactly like Anakin or Obi-Wan yet, but that's not really what the story of ANH (taken on its own) is about. It's about a young guy that finds a purpose and steps off his little desert Smallville farm into something greater. On that front, ANH is a very whole story. TFA works pretty differently, in part because it's a sequel that knows it's going to have two sequels of its own.

>>82163951
As I said, if you're uncomfortable continuing the conversation, you can simply not respond. Though I still don't understand why you'd post on a forum if you weren't interested in extending basic charity to fellow posters in a good faith discussion.

>>82163951
go back to redefining defeated you fucking queer.

>>82164167
Another example would be The Matrix. Neo accepts his role and defeats Smith, but the Matrix and the machine oppressors are very much still a factor.

>>82156423
That would have made sense, though
Luke was always as archetypically heroic and pure as possible, which is what allows for the conflict involving the temptations of the dark side which he surpasses. Him becoming a wise, sentimental Yoda-like figure in his own right makes perfect sense, but instead he has to be edgy and evasive because they need to convince people that this space fairy tale is actually very serious and nuanced

>>82162644
because he's obviously reverse trolling