I just watched this movie for the first time and I can't

>>82020604
It's impossible to prove a negative

>>82020870
>>82020870

>implying

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

OP is an atheist looking for (You)s.

Why are christians so butthurt over a scientific system that cannot prove the existence of god?

>>82020954
not even the same thing, retard

>>82020954
prove that you aren't a criminal who stole my amazon credentials, changed the adress and shipped stuff to your adress while charging my cc.

>>82021098

Do you think there's a living elephant on Mars walking around? No? Why not? We can't prove that it doesn't exist! You're clearly s-t-u-p-i-d.

>>82020604
Noone can disprove that flying spaghetti monster isnt god

Checkmate op

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>tfw you realize that god exists

>everything question we have been able to solve about our lives and our world has turned out to demonstrably be natural phenomenon
>it is therefore a fair extrapolation to assume that super-natural forces don't exist
>religgies can't understand this idea and insist that god must be specifically disproven

>implying nietzsche was talking about atheism with his "god is dead" dictum

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>tfw you realize that god exists because you exist and you are the only thing that you can prove exists so you are god and god is insane

>>82021164
it wasn't my address I shipped it to.
there I proved a negative, get fucked.

>>82020604
>pic
So it's settled that agnostic makes the most sense then right?
Does he actually provide an argument that supports and justifies unfaltering belief in his specific god?

>>82021921
Actually deism is the most strictly logical position. Christianity is the correct one, though.

>>82021945
>Christianity is the correct one, though
On what grounds do you justify this assertion?

>>82021957
I find it hard to believe we'd exist if it were not the intention of a higher being. And if it was the intention of a higher being, I'd assume he'd want a personal relationship with his creation. If not, why were we created with minds that desire a relationship with our creator? All civilizations have strived to know more about God.

>>82022035

Have you ever considered that nature intelligent animals in the same way an apple tree creates apples? It's just the way it all works?

>>82022098

...nature creates intelligent...

Sorry for confusion.

>>82022035
>minds that desire a relationship with our creator
Mighty big conjecture you're pulling out here, anon
>All civilizations have strived to know more about God.
Your framing of this sentence shows your biased view of the topic. Civilizations have explored the possibility of supernatural forces being behind creation - that is in no way the same as saying that everyone strives to have a personal relationship with a god.

You don't actually explain why you believe the christian god to be the real one. Is it because he fits best with your pre-existing opinions about the nature of a creator? Or is it because you grew up as a christian and are now trying to justify it after the fact?

>>82021897
For a second, this almost made sense.

If you believe that you are the only consciousness then it works. Though I know that if you said that, you'd absolutely be wrong because I'm certain of my own consciousness.

>>82022035
Jesus, look at this prick.
Hey buddy, I'm walking here!

>>82022098
How does nature create something? That's why I saw deism is the most logical position. I find it incomprehensible that the laws that govern he universe came from nothing. More likely that a creator of some sort at least started the ball rolling. Even the idea of a creator presents many problems. It's a mess to think your way through.

>op's pic
>you can't prove that divine beings don't exist
>therefore my extremely specific conception of God is 100% proven
>checkmate atheists

Christcucks should just stick to the whole "I don't need evidence or logic because it's faith" thing. At least then they'd be consistent.

>>82021897
These comparisons are pretty bad. They dont have remotely similar structures and they have been artificially colored to look attractive.

BRAVO JOSH

>>82022192

In M theory, it's thought that the interaction of higher dimensional 'branes' is what caused the creation of the universe; in fact, all universes. Like throwing a pebble into a pond and the resulting concentric circles that form.

>>82022192
Think of how infinitely expansive the universe is, how many billions of planets there are
if there was a one in several billion chance of a planet having the proper conditions for life, what's to say that we couldn't be that one?

>>82022192
>I find it incomprehensible that the laws that govern he universe came from nothing.

How is it less incomprehensible that a divine being came from nothing? You aren't solving the problem, just pushing it back one step.

>>82022035
Relationships are formed out of necessity of survival. social, emotional and pseudo spiritual experiences are symptoms of instincts required to survive.

A supposed creator wouldn't have a function anything even remotely similar to the asinine emotional bonding shit you're referring to.

All the stinking hairless apes on this rock are probably only gonna be around for a few more fleeting moments before they disappear from existence forever. We ain't shit.

>>82022192
self-contained models of the universe aren't exactly rare. Stephen Hawkins proposed one and Lawrence Krauss as well, for example. Even if you don't believe those specific ones, it's clear that self-contained models are possible therefore throwing a deity in there without the need for it is most definitely not the logical position. Much less one that cares at all about what you do.

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>>82021803
how long has it been

>>82022258
My main conundrum is the idea that at one point there had to be something, and that something had to come from nothing. Even the idea of God conflicts with this. It always boggles my mind. You're essentially forced to accept the possibility of something being eternal, be it God or the branes you speak of.
>>82022322
I find them both incomprehensible. That's why faith or agnosticism are my only options. I've just accepted that the human mind can't comprehend the mysteries of the universe.

>>82022141
I was blessed to be raised in Christian home. I was blessed to be chosen by God.

>>82020604
>What are your thoughts
I want to give Josh a good dicking

>>82020870
The point is that atheist so called intellectuals will say that faith is a bad thing when attacking Christians, while failing to acknowledge that his own religion of atheism is just as much based on faith.

>>82022422
And with that you've invalidated your whole argument. You don't have an objective perspective on the matter, you've been influenced in favor of christianity since birth. Beliefs aren't based in logic or reason, you're trying to rationalize them after the fact

>>82022422
>chosen by God.
God gives people free will, that's how sin became a thing.
God didn't choose you. He knew you would become a christian but he didn't choose that himself.

>>82022458
Absolute debauchery.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

tl;dr

there are two answers, void and god
in all humans
at 2 nodes: NATURE(predisposition, hardware) AND NURTURE(experience, software)

1NATUREvoid + NURTUREgod =
I was raised as an atheist who has been fooled into believing there is a god.
Does god exist because i believe in him?

2NATUREvoid + NURTUREvoid =
I was raised as an atheist who has been fooled into believing there is no god.
Does god exist despite my beliefs?

3NATUREgod + NURTUREgod =
I was raised a believer who has been fooled into believing there is a god.
Does god's existence validate my own?

4NATUREgod + NURTUREvoid =
I was raised a believer who has been fooled into believing there is no god.
Do I affect the existence of God?

Human beings evolve to a point where they create a bomb so powerful that they have to send it back in time to prevent it from destroying existence.

The bomb explodes in the past and creates the universe.

>>82022483
Perhaps so. I'm thankful either way.
>>82022507
Only by the mercy of God did I not stray from his path. I can take no credit.

>>82022552
>Only by the mercy of God did I not stray from his path. I can take no credit.
Same thing again. You have free will. You chose not to stray, god didn't do anything to lock you into believing in him.

>>82022598
Romans 9:16
So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

I take it you subscribe to Arminianism?

>>82022640
you're getting two things mixed up, anon
The mercy is what lets you into heaven
mercy has nothing to do with you being able to hold to your beliefs (unless the knowledge of god's future mercy on you that will let you into heaven is what keeps you going, but that's not the same thing)

>>82022035
>I find it hard to believe we'd exist if it were not the intention of a higher being.
I find it extremely way more hard to believe that a higher being would exist. It's kind of a circle-argument, and doesn't really matter

>And if it was the intention of a higher being, I'd assume he'd want a personal relationship with his creation.
Is this about christianity? Every single one of Abrahams religions have this. Wouldn't you assume that he'd not just "lol fuck off guys, see you in another 2000 years, lmao", when people are commiting atrocities?

>If not, why were we created with minds that desire a relationship with our creator? All civilizations have strived to know more about God.
And now they strive to debunk religion. Because we've progressed from that stage. We actually look for evidence now.

Also do you believe in Noah and his ark? Do you believe that the Earth is 6000 years old? Should you stone cheating women to death?

If you do not, why do you believe in the rest of the book?

Also, redundant question, but are you per chance an ameriburger?

>>82022679
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Explain these to me, if you will.

I am sorry, but this movie was shit

>>82022749
God, being all-knowing, knows who's going to go to heaven. He knows the results of us having free will - our 'destinies' are predetermined, if you will. God doesn't make us believe or not believe, but he knows who will and won't

>>82022749
Yeah and what about 2 Kings 2:23-24:

>From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!”
>He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

Really makes you think about God's plan for you, doesn't it?

>>82022859
>Get out of here, baldy!
What is that, The Message translation?

>>82022822
To predestine is to make something accord to your will. God exists outside of time. His knowledge of our future does nothing to predetermine it. Augustine talks about this at length.

>>82022822
...But if he knew ahead of time, then there wasn't a choice, was there? I mean, you couldn't do anything other than what he knew you would do.

>>82022896
Faulty logic. Knowing the outcome of a decision before it happens doesn't mean that the decision doesn't happen.

>>82022880
NIV m8

>>82022886
So are you arguing that God actually controls everyone at all times and explicitly decides which humans will follow him and which do not, and that god makes people sin because he's controlling them at all times?

>>82022859
Who am I to judge a being of infinite wisdom.l? He could strike me with incurable leprosy and I, content in my suffering, would still see it as an act of his divine providence.

>>82020604

This review is the best to come from this masterpiece.

neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=106050917&postcount=205

>>82022534

christians will argue "bbbbbbbut it not dumb ttttthe theology!"

frankly if you believe in the fact that the harder a truth is to ascertain the more likely it is a truth

then

it is a far sadder reality (imo)
to think that some people are just ugly and will end up alone and unloved because they are unfit to reproduce because humans are ultimately shallow beings

this is why the jews invented god

Darwinian selection is the a posteri true hell. and you are already living it.
Darwinian selection is also valid as an a priori because it does not require a human to exist to deduce that entropy exists and that resources are finite and that somebody gotta lose and you are already praying it isn't you. CEST LA VIE

Let us not pretend humans are internally good, we are not believing in god, we are more likely avoiding hell. even pope francis is kissing feet and loving da jeebus so he doesn't face pitchforks when he croaks.

humans do so as long as it is useful, all that you pride in and deem of worth is due to "usefulness"

Believing in god simply has no use.
it is a bad gene and needs to be killed off for the benefit of the species.

A priori = god exists independent of humans. why? i dunno, then why do we exist?
a posterii = god clearly exists because i have seen him. why? i dunno then why do we exist?

but hey, at the end of the day

look at your slavery, and believe in god
look at your slaves, and thank god you aren't one

if you don't see an error in your logic it doesn't mean there isn't one

if you dont see a sucker at the table, that means it's probably you.

unless jesus is the ultimate sucker, who sucked it up for all us

but then why call him god?

>>82022916
But a decision between one thing and nothing else is not a decision. It's determinism.

>>82022946
No. I believe that he chooses his elect, those who will accept his mercy and follow his path. I still sin every day, though I've made a concerted effort to change.

>>82023005
It's a decision between one thing and another thing, not "nothing else". What point are you trying to make?

>>82020604
The movie's just hilarious. In the ending the two priests rejoice because the atheist professor is dead. I know that the message was different but that's definitely what it did look like.
And I can't imagine the amount of people scared to death by finding text messages from unknown numbers in the middle of the night saying "God's not dead"

>>82023011
>I still sin every day, though I've made a concerted effort to change.
So when you sin it's your own fault but when you decide to follow god it was god's decision?

>>82022886
So the argument here if I'm understanding correctly, is that God knows the outcome because he witnesses all of existence in a non-linear singular fashion.

Though people of faith frequently allude to gods plan as though everything is his will. If that's the case, then god wills those who disobey him and essentially every other transgression against him. Regardless of time, they are either of his design or they are not.

>>82022896
God doesn't exist within time. You have to understand this before you can attempt understand his interaction with us.
>>82023075
Yes. I sin, but not out of compulsion.
>>82023086
Read up on double predestination. God chooses those whose sins he will pardon and those who he will damn for eternity for their sins.


You all need to read up on Reformed theology. American Diet Christianity has poisoned your minds.

>>82023005
That you can't do the other thing, because that would make God wrong.

Whoops
>>82023308
Meant for
>>82023048

>>82023276
>You all need to read up on Reformed theology. American Diet Christianity has poisoned your minds.
Or I could just jerk off and forget I ever read this thread. That seems like a more productive course of action.

>>82023276
>God chooses those whose sins he will pardon and those who he will damn for eternity for their sins.

He will choose based on which ones accepted jesus' sacrifice and asked for forgiveness. He knows which people this will be because he sees everything before it happens. People are given free will, the bible makes this clear. In their lives, people either do or don't come to the decision to ask for forgiveness. God knows ahead of time which people this will be, and later in time he chooses who will go to heaven based on this. That much is true, but that does not equate to predestination. The decision is still up to the individual. God doesn't force it. Forcing it and knowing the result are two different things.

>>82023378
the extent of atheist spiritual understanding summed up in one post

I'd feel bad for you but you chose this path

>>82023412
>Forcing it and knowing the result are two different things.
no they're not. If he 100% knows that's the decision that will be made, then it there is something forcing those decisions. Whether it was god himself or the progression of events that forced it, it doesn't matter. If the person was predestined to make that choice and there was no way to change it, then it is not free will.

Allahu akbar, my brothers

>>82023358
God doesn't know what you will do, he knows what you did do. The event is not in the future for him. That is a temporal concept that does not apply to his nature.
>>82023412
I understand what you believe and I'm certainly glad to discuss the topic with you, I just need to you to provide scripture that affirms what you're saying. Your assertion negates God's total sovereignty over creation. This is contrary to the beliefs of Augustine, Martin Luther, and John Calvin; the men who gave us the Christian paradigm that we have today.

Coincidence or not, I also watched this film for the first time today, as well as it's sequence.

I liked the first one a lot. However, the argument didn't got to me. My suspension of disbeliev didn't work so well, since all the main arguments of the atheist professor seemed like an angry teenager raging at it's parents not to go to church, specially when he admits to hate god.

I do understand the whole point of the movie, but I don't see how a philosophy professor (and specially a doctor) who's a convinced atheist would act like this. A more credible answer might have been something like "No, I don't hate god, as well as I don't really care about religion", and the boy would have no retoric.

And the professor died, the girl got cured from cancer, etc, etc, etc. The argument didn't convinced me. But it was a good idea for a movie, indeed.

>>82023489
It's a product of his vile and sinful nature.

>>82020604
atheism is a reddit-tier worldview

>>82021885

>im-fucking-plying he wasn't

>>82023518
God knowing something will happen and god deciding something will happen are two different things.

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>>82023624
Doubtful, looking at how "Atheism is like the highest level of white privilege"

>>82023412
>Knowing and Causing aren't the same

That's true, if the case were from a human perspective. This however, is from the POV of the creator and infallible dictator of the universe and reality.

Either he wills it all, or he does not will it all. It cannot be both. If a man murders my family and the consolation is that it was within gods plan, then in what manner did the murderer actually chose anything at all?

>>82022192

>hard to believe laws that govern the universe come from nothing
>but if God governs the universe with a wave of his mighty hand, nothing incredible about that

>>82023669
>the consolation is that it was within gods plan
That's just how modern christians justify bad things happening. The bible doesn't support this. "It's just a test like that one time with Job" is another favorite and it's equally unproven

>>82023669
We're getting into double and single predestination. This man believes neither, and therefore doesn't come to the same conclusion as you. Further, the conclusion does not follow from the premise you presented.

*burp*

>>82023657
why are you repeating the same thing I just responded to? If he knows 100% it's going to happen, then something is forcing it to happen whether it's him or not. Therefore it's not free will.

>>82023489
You'd like to think I don't believe just because I don't understand, wouldn't you Christcuck? That would make your little world more secure, wouldn't it?

I suppose if I told you about my many years of religious education you'd probably just hand-wave it away because it was the wrong denomination, right?

>>82023774
IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOR HIM. That implies that God has a future and that he anticipates something. HE DOES NOT. He exists outside of the time that you keep referring to.

>>82023774
There's no """forcing""" required. It will happen because all "free will" decisions are purely deterministic. That doesn't mean God (or any other cosmic force) forced it to happen.

>m-muh free will
Evidently not a thing if you follow the jewish deity of the bible, Exodus 9:12
And the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

>>82023825
Cool. Me and my choice (or lack thereof) exist within time. If all you've got is a special plea that rules don't apply to God, why even pretend that you're being logical?

>>82023971
I was under the impression that we were arguing within the framework of Christian theology.

>>82023825
Aside from the fact that it's never stated in the bible that he's outside time, that's a poor way to skirt around the issue. It's still determined exactly what decisions i'll make at what time. There is a set path and there is no changing it. We are basically robots following states.
>>82023864
>It will happen because all "free will" decisions are purely deterministic
the it is not free will. These concepts are incompatible with the average person's definition of free will.

>>82023729
>>82023710

There would have had to have been a period where God did not know who would sin for there to have been any purpose in proceeding with creation to begin with.

Why perform a test if the outcome is clear prior?

>>82024014
Who said it was a "test" and who are we to approve or disapprove of God's purpose in doing anything?

>>82022159
Of course you are. You/I/We are god and you/I/We are insane.

The fact that you are talking to ourself proves we are crazy.

>>82024075
>who are we to approve or disapprove of God's purpose in doing anything?
So God is also above morality? Sounds like a hypocritical asshole to me.

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>>82023950

>mfw listening to my theology teacher try to explain how the pharaoh still had free will
>mfw, even ignoring that conundrum for a second, he had to try explain how a loving God could actively influence the pharaoh to make the wrong decision, which then gives God a justification to punish him

>>82022461
>>82022461
>religion of atheism is just as much based on faith.

Not collecting stamps isn't a hobby, dumbshit

>>82024228
God is good and everything good comes from him. Clearly he's not bound by human morality.

>>82024075
>Who said it was a "test"

The test is following gods word or whatever the parameter for not going to hell is in this case. That's the test.

>who are we to approve or disapprove of God's purpose in doing anything

The goal isn't to approve or disapprove as you put it. That would require that I'm already subscribing to the fact that what's being discussed here is objective. It's to find fallacies in the reasoning behind the belief that these things are so.

If we were to simply settle on saying that God doesn't need a reason, then that would equate to saying you believe all of this for no discernible reason.

>>82024075

If you don't assume to begin with that God loves you, you have no reason to assume he has your best interests at heart

This sort of "why question God?" reasoning only works if you already believe in the Christian God

>>82024278
We disagree on the tenet of unconditional election so I doubt we'd be able to find a middle ground on anything, considering how crucial it is.

I just saw this same OP on /pol/. Whatever...

So aside from kistchy evangelical shit, what are some movies that engage with Christianity in a more interesting way? I keep looking at the relationship Fellini had to Catholicism, and as a Catholic I find it fascinating.

>>82024245
Spirituality is a metaphysical persuasion, which atheism is by rejecting it. If anything atheism isn't a religion because religion is inherently organized, unlike atheism (unless you count Dawkins type fags.)

>>82024254
satan came from god too
or are you suggesting god didn't make the angels?

>>82024281
So you're asking me to answer questions that can't be answered, since I'm forced to argue within your specific set of moral and religious beliefs?

>>82024254
>God is good and everything good comes from him

He created everything, that includes all the bad shit too. He manufactured every possible outcome leading to every decision I make.

Tell me, how does one go against gods will?

>>82024354
God made the angels. Satan sinned of his own free will.

>>82024389
I believe in double predestination, so we agree. Everything is according to the will of God. He has ultimate sovereignty.

>>82024346
Did you watch Calvary? Was p. good

>>82021867
It's funny the arrogance of our knowledge today. I think our current intelligence is in a sort of sweet spot that we are smart enough to understand the phenomenon around us but not smart enough to understand just how much we don't know about the universe.

It's like a painter who doesn't suck, but is far from a master, but because he knows he doesn't suck, his ego gets inflated and thinks he's the best painter in the world.

>>82022035
God as you think he is, isn't real. I'm agnostic cause I used to be religious until my brother died but there is some logic in a higher being. But if there IS a god, it's a being beyond your understanding. An alien from a different galaxy is easier to understand. A being of vast power, power enough to create or influence the big bang and to create the laws of nature (we live in a universe that is perfect for life and that is unlikely) would not be understood by humanity. Also, such a being would have little interest in us, much less individual people. Highly unlikely that the same being who created the universe would stick around to answer prayers and create a different universe for souls.

>>82020870
Literally every statement can be formulated as a negative, you've been memed.

>>82024390
>so I made this thing that may work ok, but may also go awry and release poison gas into the atmosphere. But don't blame me for it!

>>82024453
You make a few assumptions in this but I generally agree that deism is the most strictly logical position.

everyone in this thread needs to take some magic mushrooms, open yourselves up a bit. honestly I think we're just the universe, and when we die we'll still be the universe

>>82024432
Calvary was great in how Christianity loses practically but remains unshaken theologically. If you look at the priest as a Christ figure, the way he threw away the gun on the shore was a parallel to Christ refusing to use His power during the crucifixion. Subtle stuff, but nice.

After Calvary I feel like the next step would be to watch Spotlight, but I don't know as much about it and if it has any spiritual element to it or is just "priests are evil" shit.

>>82024420
Not true, he gave us free will and even though he is omniscient about the present he doesn't foresee everyone's future. When Jesus was being crusified God was ready to destroy the world until Jesus asked him to spare us all, he had not anticipated him to do that.

>>82024390
So god mad satan and satan gets free will, and god made humans but humans don't get free will?
Are you suggesting that God doesn't know everything satan will do?

>>82024370
More like you have to step outside of YOUR specific set of beliefs if you want to talk to normal people. This is not your safe space, and Christian theology is not automatically assumed to be correct.

>>82024453
Well if God made us in his image and a fruit that was supposed to give us knowledge akin to his, I would think he would be very much interested in us.

>>82024522
This guy wasn't me. That's the problem with 4chan discussions.
>>82024532
You were asking theological questions. I gave a theological answer. Are you medically retarded?

>>82024420
This is what you believe, but the important question is why?

The idea of god is only a placeholder for our lack of understanding behind the purpose of the universe.

The earthly questions relating to mankind and morality are being unravelled without religion.

I understand the need for God but certainly not for the subscription to doctrine. It seems blatantly man forged. Yet you chose to believe a specific one for reasons I'm sure you can't articulate yourself.

>>82022749
It's mortal people who wrote it, and it was their beliefs that they wrote down. You might as well read some philosophy books.

At the end of the day it's faith, despite evidence. Believe what you want but don't expect others to believe it as well.

>>82024505
I have. Love em.
I used to grow my own.
But letting yourself believe that the things you think while high are some kind of spiritual truth is dumb as shit.

>>82024453
>until my brother died
Your faith was shaken by death. How could God allow death?

One answer would be that death was not part of Eden, and that humanity brought about death through its own wrongdoing. Humanity continues to do wrong, so death continues as well.

>>82024505
God is the light and the universe is like a crystal that refracts his light into the different colors of the spectrum. Everything in the universe is just different pieces of God refracted. If you combine enough elements of the universe you can get a combination that is closer to his image like us.

>>82024620
If death was not part of eden, was reproduction going to be infinite? Where would everyone go if there was a permanently expanding population?

>>82024622
Analogies are not arguments

>>82024608
I don't expect you to believe it. You may not be among the elect.
>>82024600
It's certainly not a placeholder. I believe it because God's only begotten son came to live among us and reveal his nature.

>>82024678
I was agreeing with you, what happened to opening up?

>>82024611
yeah obviously dont believe the wacky shit, but it opens your mind to the strangeness of the universe. like why are our minds capable of perceiving so much more?

>>82024622
interesting thought

>>82024390
What is the purpose of free will?

Surely the answer in this regard, is to act as a test. If so, then God cannot see an outcome from a perspective. If he could, then no such test need occur at all.

If he cannot perceive all, then he is infallible. If he can, then was never a test.

>>82024660
There was no need to have more kids because there was no need to continue the species because there was no death.

It's more of an archetypal story anyway.

>>82024697
Right, believing in a God of gaps is defenitly old, but science will only ever tell us how things are but never why. God isn't a placeholder but the answer.

>>82024727
I'm still waiting for a rebuttal on this one haha
>inb4 hes too complicated
god created us to learn about the universe, why would he make our only tool (logic) unable to figure this simple stuff out

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>enter the information age
>people now have access to any known piece of information they could possibly need to improve their lives and the world around them
>somehow general population is becoming stupider and more religious

Someone please explain

>>82024574
This isn't your seminary, fag. People aren't asking questions because they are curious about your doctrine. They're just pointing out the illogical bullshit.

A god I can accept, organized religions are just silly since it's following the random rules and fiction of some non-divine entities decided should be rules and has nothing to do with an omnipotent creator.

>>82024771
>somehow general population is becoming stupider and more religious
Think a little harder about which parts of the world are actually getting more religious, and which ones aren't

>>82024771
I think 4chan is just becoming the new edgy counterculture to hipster millennials

in general the world is becoming less religious, this is the least religious time in history

>>82024772
Yet nothing illogical was pointed out.
>>82024749
Exactly. You're very bright.

>>82024762
Just because you know what someone else is going to choose to do doesn't mean they wouldn't still be choosing to do it.

>>82024804
Atheism is actually the fastest shrinking religious belief in the world. It's directly tied to Marxism which is a failed ideology.

>>82024697
>I believe it because God's only begotten son came to live among us and reveal his nature.
>I believe it, because I believe it

You missed the point I was making, you chose to believe in the doctrine because it states it's the truth.

You might be interested to know I myself have actually met god. That's the truth because it says so right here.

>>82024727
What makes you think not being able to percieve the future is a flaw? If God is eternal, always is and always will be, it really doesn't matter if you can percieve the future

>>82024844
Religion is gained by revelation. No amount of natural theology will bring you to God. That's just the reality of the situation.

>>82024826
>Just because you know what someone else is going to choose to do doesn't mean they wouldn't still be choosing to do it.

>>82024727
read this again.

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>They say Jesus was God
>Jesus never said that
>Jesus was a Jew
>His followers are "Christians"

this story has been recited, rinsed, and repeated throughout history, right alont with the Noah's Arch story

literal brainlets

>>82024844
>There's no evidence so it's wrong
Religion is inherently metaphysical. Augustine said that doubt was another part of faith.

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>>82024826
>Just because you know what someone else is going to choose to do doesn't mean they wouldn't still be choosing to do it.

he created us though, he created your choice.
what this guy said >>82024727


>Atheism is actually the fastest shrinking religious belief in the world. It's directly tied to Marxism which is a failed ideology.

atheism != general less religious practices
less people are believing in god

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>>82024914
Ouch. Zeitgeist brainlet detected.

>>82024826
>Atheism... religious belief

Why are christfags so retarded? How is "no religion" a religion?

>>82024950
>somehow ignored everything else i wrote
lol

>>82024933
>most americans believe in God
>average IQ is 98
who would have thought

>>82024959
Posting false and unverified info means you're a disingenuous liar. Why should I take the time?

>>82024727
You say this only because you view time linearly. There are near infinite possibilities for every outcome for everyone alive. Alternate dimensions of your life. But there is only one soul for each person and the version that you are aware of right now is the only version of you with a soul and every choice you make transcends your soul to a different dimension where you made a choice. God sees every possible outcome for you but does not percieve the choices you will make and where you will eventually end up.

>>82022461
Faith in what exactly? Faith in the idea that a group of people who've consistently failed to provide any evidence for their world view beyond idiotic semantic ones for several millennia are probably just talking shit? Not much of a leap of faith, I don't believe in the loch ness monster or the greys either and those people have had much less time to prove their claims.

>>82024861
>What makes you think not being able to percieve the future is a flaw?

In regards to free will, it is a flaw. I'm challenging the notion that God is infallible. If free will truly exists, then god must to an extent be fallible.

>>82024987
>le why should i bother proving you wrong
k

>>82024911
>God can see things so that means God actively influences them

>>82024914
>Jesus never said that
>"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." [John 8:58]
Also learn archetypes. This kind of shit only proves religion right.

Also don't start busting out the shitty compressed jpegs atheists seem to have such a fetish for. What's next, you're gonna tell me Christmas is a pagan holiday? (Please do.)

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>>82024987
>Posting false and unverified info means you're a disingenuous liar
How is t hat different than the bible?

>>82024567
That whole "in his image" is just people thinking they're special in this universe.

>>82024998
>does not percieve the choices you will make

So he's fallible.

>>82025038
The Bible has never been proven false and has thousands of ancient documents that verify it's accuracy.

>>82025008
How?

>>82025042
So far we are

>>82025033
>John
Oh you mean the NEW and IMPROVED bible? lol kys faggot

>>82025049
How is that a flaw? Not being able to percieve our choices?

>>82025056
>>82024727
I'm not gonna repost all this, just try to comprehend it the first time around

>>82025082
are you an idiot?

>>82025055
>The Bible has never been proven false
Kikes wuzn't slaves of the kangz. Stop falling for their trinity of untruth that is the hoaxodus, the crucifiction and the holyhoax. Stop loving the enemy of your people, cuck

>>82024998
>god has seen every single possibility in the world, has seen every outcome, lives every moment in time simultaneously
>still cares about if people have sex before marriage some reason even though he's lived and is living in an infinite number of realities where the concept of marriage have never been a concept or it's outcome ended up saving the world

It feels like they can't decide if he's omnipotent or just a powerful creator.

>>82025082
t. below average intelligence

>>82025085
You just make a statement saying if he cannot percieve all, then he is infallible. But do you have proof of that statement?

>>82025111
>Christians
>asking for proof
lol

>>82025103
Jesus went into the temple and antagonized the jews very often and forced them to quit acting jewish.

>>82025111
He is omnipotent but I don't see how this would negate it

>>82025133
meant for >>82025121

I can't tell if the guy arguing for. Christianity is b8ing or being sincere but I just felt like saying why I believe.
I used to have lots of doubts and stuff, especially when I was depressed and suicidal. There was one night where I was about to drive home and I prayed asking for a car to hit me and kill me. I felt a sort of "no" feeling deep inside me. I know it wasn't my head just telling me what I want to hear, that's happened plenty of times and this was different. I know for sure that there was something outside if myself telling me no, I have a purpose here.

>>82025055
Doesn't the bible state that the world was created in 6 days?

>>82025145
>especially when I was depressed and suicidal.

>mentally unstable
>found religion
hmm..

>>82022345
BUUURP MORTY

>>82025055
Even Origen and Augustine knew that a literal translation was silly.

>>82025134
>rejecting tradition
>enacting policies that would lead to the disintegration of his host people
>not like your typical kike
He's just on the opposite side of the semitic spectrum but deserves the same oven.

>>82024804
This. 4chan by default is a site full of people with unconventional views.

>>82025067
So the americas weren't real because people didn't know it was there? Same thing. Just because we don't see any aliens doesn't mean there is no more life in the universe.

>>82025162
For you
>>82025148

>>82025067
Except for you.

>>82025155
kek

>>82025183
So do you have faith that there is intelligent life out there?

>>82024826
>Atheism is actually the fastest shrinking religious belief in the world
Anon ...

>>82025145
God bless you. I'm one of those guys and I'm wholly sincere. Revelation is a large part of Christianity and it appears that's what you've experienced.

>>82025137
It wouldn't negate it, it would just make it incredibly fucking stupid that god would act like such a petty child like he does in the Bible and have a stake in humanity when none of this matters in the slightest.

Hell the fact that god is omnipotent just kinda shows how fucking pointless life is, how mundane and meaningless heaven is.

>>82025134
>A Jew claims he figured out a new religion and starts preaching it to some Jews so the powerbroker Jews complain to the Romans who then kill him... which makes him not a Jew.

Don't bother arguing with Christians, you just give them a platform to hear themselves speak.
They are mostly below average intelligence and the poverty line. You can't blame them for holding on to the invisible, since it's easier than opening a book and forcing their tiny brains to actually work. Christians are the weak that need people to tell them how to live. They are incapapble of making decisions for themselves.

>>82025261
How does it make it meaningless?

>>82025162
That's pretty much all region is though isn't it?

>take a powerful creator, whether he exists or not
>slap a bunch of invented rules, creeds and texts on it made up by random people
>call it a religion

>>82025282
The top 20 IQs are majority Christian.

>>82025282
Yes the world would be a better place if we stopped arguing with one another

>>82025309
did God tell you that?

>>82025285
There is an infinite number of me who has gone to heaven, an infinite number of me who has gone to hell, and infinite number of me who was kind and generous and an infinite number of me who were evil.

Whatever I do or will do I have already done an infinite number of times.

>>82020604
That was actually a pretty clever reply. On a serious note, for the first time ever I'm actually happy now so that's pretty cool, even if it turns out to be totally wrong I don't care because believing in it actually makes me happy.

>>82025240
Yeah, I grew up in a Christian home but I always liked deciding things for myself so I think I just needed to figure it out on my own.

>>82020870
>"i don't have money in this box"
>prove it
>"i can't because you can't prove a negative"
>sure you can, just open the box and show us what's inside and what's not inside

>>82025309
are you talking about modern times, or historical times when saying shit against the Church got you burned at the stake?

Because if you end up living in ISIS controlled territory, I guarantee you you're going to Muslim as fuck.

all the literal retard irish fags and poor americans are the filth infesting this place with religious bullshit

fuck off

>>82025341
>>82025366
It's actually the top 10
http://godfatherpolitics.com/10-highest-iqs-least-8-theists-least-6-christians/
The number 1 IQ is studying to be a missionary. And I mean modern people.

>>82020604

>you're going to Muslim as fuck.
>He isn't willing to risk his life for what he believes in

>>82025350
>Yeah, I grew up in a Christian home
I think that is a huge factor to be fair.

I've grown up in a non-religious home and there's like nothing in my brain that lets me accept a god. Not to sound edgy but it would be like suddenly thinking Santa is real. It's just not there.

wtf I hate not believing in god now

>>82025419
This blows the fuck out of your argument you retarded faggot. Kill yourself.
>>82025282

>>82021803
>tfw you realize that god exists but you dont believe on the Church

>>82025458
>mostly below average iq
>posts 10 people that aren't
Christian's can't into reading comprehension, apparently

>>82025439
You're probably right. The idea of a higher being was normalized for me because I was used to being around people that believed. I was never forced into believing it but I can see how it would be hard to come to that conclusion if you dont have that background

>>82025487
You're still wrong faggot.
http://strangenotions.com/atheists-higher-iqs/

>>82025458
lol dick

why do christcucks love niggers and jews so much?

>>82025419
>>82025527
>strangenotions
>christian
>calling me a faggot
>christian
>using strangenotions as a source
o im laffin hard

>>82025527
try again brainlet

>>82025550
>>82025569
You're trolling at this point. Analyze the merit of the content you faggot

Is this the thread where all the faggots came to now that the other one got deleted?

>>82025419
>some evangelical website names people I've never heard of as the smartest 10 people on the planet

ok

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Why can't atheists argue without resorting to ad hominem attacks or vulgar words? It's almost as if they think they can say or do whatever they want because life is meaningless and there are no consequences for their actions.

>>82025612
Not looking them up for yourself means you're a lazy faggot.

>>82025615
>because life is meaningless and there are no consequences for their actions.
That's how religion makes me feel like.

>>82025576
>being this upset
just like a typical low-intelligence, poverty stricken individual to be unable to control his emotions and resort to personal attacks and ad-hominems.
You are a fool if you think "GodfatherPolitics" and "StrangeNotions" are credible sources, when there have been studies done that prove Countries with less theists have higher intelligence.
I feel sorry for you, mate.

>>82025615
Morals are purely subjective. Even if you personally have chosen to abide by the moral code laid out in the bible, that was your subjective choice. Your pic is pure bias and has no point besides "isn't that depressing that they don't think the same way I do", which isn't an argument

>>82025628
>this militant for christianity
>supposed to love thy neighbor
>supposed to treat others the way he wants to be treated
>supposed to be kind and giving

>the last 5 replies were calling people faggot and using made up stories as facts

sure is evangelical in here

>>82025665
It's funny how the evangelicals are always the first ones to attack and insult the people they're allegedly trying to convert

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Jesus, go to r/atheism both of you atheists and bigots. Let's post nude Josh instead

>>82025647
>I think it's okay to rape and murder people, you can't judge me because that was my subjective choice just as valid as yours

Thank God our legal systems have a Christian foundation and not an atheist one.

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Wait hold up.

Weren't theists the original cucks? I mean they literally worship an omnipotent deity superior to them.

Jesus is also literally the product of a cuck relationship with God as the bull.

>>82025688
you just have to laugh at them.
They're like little kids throwing tantrums. Just ignore them and eventually they'll stop/go away.

>>82025709
>he thinks you need a Christian foundation to outlaw rape and murder
I'm sure there's a part of you that realizes how retarded you are

>>82025709
Well, to be fair the Christian foundation is inspired by the religions and morals that came before it which stem from out sense of community as a species.

The bible was written to accommodate a lot of our inherent morals, not the other way around.

>>82025735
>I'm sure there's a part of you that realizes how retarded you are
he's a christian, mate
i doubt it

>>82025576
kek get rekt nigger >>82025637

>>82025688

It's a long standing tradition

Martin Luther tried to convert the Jews but when they refused, he wrote an elaborate stories how they literally eat devil's shit

>>82025688
The Christians ITT have been friendly and positive more often than not, while the atheists that were drawn to a thread about religious movies like a moth to a flame have done nothing but call Christians retarded over and over as if that is an argument. I know you are searching for meaning in your life but that doesn't mean you should attack people who have found it.

>>82025862
>I know you are searching for meaning in your life but that doesn't mean you should attack people who have found it.
Now that's projection if I've ever seen it.
Not to mention the fact you're generalizing both sides to support your confirmation bias and present an invalid argument.
Doin' the Lord real proud right now anon.

The only real difference between Christians and the non-religious are that Christians need to go to a big church with other Christians for a weekly reminder to have humility, awe, and appreciation for life, whereas non-religious are constantly reminded by simple everyday things. Sounds like a lot of Christians ITT haven't been to church in a while.

>>82025899
>Not to mention the fact you're generalizing both sides to support your confirmation bias and present an invalid argument.
as if he knows better lol

>>82025909
Christians go to a church, atheists go on reddit. It's the same thing and has more to do with the community than the religion.

>>82025926
>Christians go to a church, atheists go on reddit.
one of these is a fact

>>82025932
makes sense
you never get the whole truth out of christians anyway

>>82025926
>how to tell when someone browses /pol/

>>82025926
Christians go to church and reddit*

>>82025926
This non sequitur probably sounded a lot more clever in your head.

>>82020604
The kind of garbage that flyover state people eat up

>>82025665
I apologize for my language. I got passionate. I'm not infallible.

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>>82022461
>his own religion of atheism

>>82022534
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_Nonexistent

>>82020604
As a christian, this movie was cringey as fuck.
What with the whole "professor is evil atheist" narrative.

>>82026569
>christian
>swears
hmmmmmmmmm

>>82026778
>christian
>frequents 4chan
HMM...

>>82026336
but I am phallible