If the First Order is just a vestigious of the Empire, how could

>only one star destroyer
>only one planet size weapon that needs a sun to fire once
why are they a threat again?

>>81964790
>how could they have the resources to build the Starkiller base?
First Order is space USSR or North Korea. They can afford to spend 40% of their budget on military because its brutal dictatorship.

Empire was a regular state that needed to fund all shit from welfare to education.

>And why even build it?
In the movie it wiped out New Republic's navy, capitol and several planets. So clearly it was worth it.

>>81964828
Because apparently the New Republic is still using a poorly armed and equipped geurrilla force as its standing military.

>>81964903
and how did you come to that conclusion
The resistance we see in the movie is not New Republic's military

the movie was fucking shit but the geopolitical situation behind it kind of makes sense

>>81964879
>They can afford to spend 40% of their budget on military because its brutal dictatorship.
Even that wouldn't be enough to make it. Also USSR and KR spent a lot with welfare, just like most of dictatorships.

>In the movie it wiped out New Republic's navy, capitol and several planets. So clearly it was worth it.
>Death Star I and II needed a ridiculously hard plan to be destroyed
>Starkiller base was destroyed by the dullest way ever
kek

>>81964879
>In the movie it wiped out New Republic's navy, capitol and several planets. So clearly it was worth it.
Did you read this in the novel?

The only reason that would make sense to me is if they found something in the area of space they rule like the Star Forge that gave them unlimited resources for a project

>>81964952
Why the fuck would the New Republic not just use its regular military to crush the First Order? What's the point of plausible deniability when there are literally two governments in the universe?

>>81965046
It's in the movie m9.

>>81965125
>Why the fuck would the USA not just use its regular military to crush the Soviet Union? What's the point of plausible deniability when there are literally two superpowers on the Earth?

>>81965128
There was a scene of the republic's navy blowing up along with a caption about how this was their entire navy and not just part of it?

>>81964790
JJ wanted to just have the good guys not be the galactic establishment, which was impossible after ROTJ.

It's all idiotic aesthetics and pushing culture war memes.

>>81965158
Because the commies had nukes. On the other hand the republic was too pussy to get their own superweapon.

>>81965158
Because they would wipe out themselves as well.

That wouldn't happen in a huge galaxy.

>>81965158
The First Order is supposed to be some fringe extremist group you fucking dumbass

>>81964790

>uses the sun to fire
>that means it can only fire twice before extinguishing the sun
>apparently can't move since it is a fucking planet
>that means it was built close to the planets they wanted to destroy?

What if the rebel base happened to be on the other side of the galaxy? The whole thing was fucking stupid and I don't know why the writers had the need to make it an actual fucking planet. Just put in another death star and that's it. It's not like you didn't rip off 75% of ANH anyways.

>>81965158
I don't think First Order is nearly as strong as the New Republic though.

The Empire almost destroyed the Alliance with brute force, that would probavbly work against first order.

>>81964790

>And why even build it?

Because it's capable of shooting a death ray halfway across the galaxy in minutes and obliterate an entire star system in one shot.

I mean that kind of thing is pretty useful.

As for the resources you can always handwave that away as the base being a leftover secret project that never got completed during the times of the Empire and the First Order took over and finished it.

>>81965270
>I don't know why the writers had the need to make it an actual fucking planet
>not being awed by that scene comparing the size of the new death star with the previous 2 and realizing the stakes just got raised

>>81965270
>What if the rebel base happened to be on the other side of the galaxy?

Did you not notice that it in fact did fire across the galaxy and obliterate a whole star system there?

Did you miss that part of the movie?

>huuuuur let's bring the Empire back
>except they aren't really an empire any more nor do they have any of the power or threat
>let's make them build another Death Star anyway because it's not like we haven't seen that plan fail twice already

Nice writing, Disney. Bravo.

>>81965158
>The US and North Korea are literally the only two countries on Earth
>instead of just crushing North Korea, the US sends some ragtag group of civilians in pickup trucks with hunting rifles to try and overthrow North Korea
>this accomplishes jack shit and North Korea eventually develops ICBMs and nukes the US

Truly genius geopolitics

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>>81965233
It still is a government covering multiple star systems with sizeable military.

>>81965233
Not fringe enough for the New Republic to risk reigniting the war.

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>suns are in delicate balance between forces pushing out and gravity holding it all in

>without that balance they'll explode

>SW physics lets them drain all the energy of a sun and contain it within a planet-sized structure with no problem, and the sun doesn't explode and destroy everything within 5 light years. Instead it just goes dark


I know sci-fi often has bullshit science, but Ep. VII was just plain retarded.

>>81965348

Idk dude to me it looked like the star systems were pretty close to each other

>>81965312
>Because it's capable of shooting a death ray halfway across the galaxy in minutes and obliterate an entire star system in one shot.
The thing here is efficiency. You don't put all the eggs in the same basket.
You can build tons of smaller ships that could destroy even more planest at the same time and if you lose some battles there would be many others.

>>81965397
First order is not bunch of crazy gooks without any real potential. They are what's left of the Empire.

In that aspect they are closer to Germany after WW1.

>>81964790
empire= germany WWI

first order= germany WWII

read up on the history of germany army principles and how nazi germany tried to get back to the old strictness of Kaiser germany..

yes there resources were greatly depleted after WWI, but they got enough resources back in 20 years to fight

>>81965447

I don't think you're fully understanding how useful it is to obliterate a whole star system in one shot halfway across the galaxy.

The only reason the "Resistance" knew where to even find the base is due to Finn defecting.

>>81965408
>we can't reignite the war
>lets just ignore the fact that they're illegally occupying like a tenth of our territory
what a bunch of cucks

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>>81965504

It's about the brave SJW against the white patriarchy racist shitlords

>>81965562
tbqh national leaders being bunch of cucks in similar situation does have a precedent IRL

>German reoccupation of Rhineland
>German military rearmament
>Germany occupying rest of Czechoslovakia despite the Munich treaty giving them only Sudetenland
and so on

>>81965630
>Battlefront 2 is about Spic/Black Female Imperial Special Forces member fighting to avenge Sheev
really makes you think about the brand's consistency then

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>>81965504
>first order= germany WWII
So who are the jews

>>81965721
>implying she won't turn good by the 3rd mission, thus restoring the female minorities vs evil white empire narrative

>>81965721
the first female of color main character is a trump voting nazi? i'm literally shaking right now.

>>81965764
most of the actors, directors and producers

>>81965556
I do not think you understand how useful it is to spend the same resources to obliterate dozens of planets at a time with smaller ships that would not be lost if you missed some of them. This is a principle of efficiency, what rules millitary nowdays.

After the destruction of ships like Bismark and Yamato people found out that the force is on the number, not at the size.

Just study a bit of military before saying bullshit

The First Order still had access to the Death Star plans from Return of the Jedi, yes?

That one would have been indestructible had it been completed. No weak point exhaust port.

Just make it. Much less material needed for creation. Doesn't need a star to power it. Can fly in hyperspace to get to targets. Its the perfect weapon.

Nope. Have to make one 50 times bigger that can only be fired twice.

>"FUCK YOU GUYS I'LL JUST START A NEW EVEN BETTER EMPIRE OVER HERE"

There, movie over.

>>81965764
Zarn Consortium.

>>81965669
no one outside of modern europe is so cucked that they'd ignore their own territory being occupied

>>81965270
Are you dense or what? They shoot the weapon once, wait 12 hours and the sun is up again to power more shots. Just like in real life.

Jesus.

>>81965769
That's likely but if nothing else it'll give us a fair amount of #notallimperials or #justfollowingorders

>>81965800
>why develop nuclear weapons when few dozen of bombers loaded with incendiary ammunition can obliterate a city just as effectively

>>81965868
Thank you to prove my point, lad. You don't make Tsar bombs, just smaller ones.

Was the republic senate planet in the same solar system as the dingy pirate bar that anus eyes ran? How the hell did they see it explode?

I never got the purpose of the deathstar or starkiller. Surely the empire is capable of glassing a planet from simple orbital bombardment instead of investing a shit ton of resources into a huge laser? The orbital bombardment fleet accomplishes exactly the same thing without being a huge fucking target.

This is why battleships aren't a thing anymore. Starwars should be entirely carriers, small fighters and bombers, and laser-cannon ships for killing carriers and destroying cities. Why the fuck would you want to blow up a whole planet? Then what is there to rule over?

At least LoGH made Iserlohn fortress half-way make sense through magic space physics.

>>81965899
Yet Tsar bomb was indeed made IRL.

>>81965806
B-but it's smaller, we need to make it HUGE!

>>81965943
Just like Yamato Battleship, however now we just make destroyers.

>>81965408
So they occupy territory literally next to Coruscant and all that Republic has done was moving their capital to another planet?

>>81965806

But anon, biggerer is better.

Next movie we'll have 4 connected planets with a cannon in the middle.

>>81965972
what if first order were bunch of retarded naziboos with wunderwaffe fetish

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>>81965914
everyone should just watch legend of the galactic heroes instead of star wars, better in every way

>>81965993
>occupy
That's what they were left with after the civil war.

For whichever reason Rebellion/ New Republic did not gain control of what is now first order territory before the end of the war

Probably because of war attrition and desire to end it asap.

>>81965210
This. The "resistance" should be called the "government"

>>81966066
Couldn't republic just start producing clones again and take over those planets?

>>81965914
>At least LoGH made Iserlohn fortress half-way make sense through magic space physics.
That part where the other huge fortress traveled to fight Iserlohn was pretty dumb though.

I mean, wouldn't tidal waves destroy both fortresses?

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>>81966053

LotGH is pretty much World War 1 in space, or Star Wars but far more detailed.

I'm glad to see /tv/ is getting even more and more hostile toward TFA. Maybe there's still future to this board.

>>81966144
Old Republic started producing clones with healthy economy behind them. As they did not already have standing army they could afford it as well.

I like to think that New Republic is only slightly less fucked up Libya after 2011.

>>81966176
except space Germany wins

>>81966190
We've had two years in a row of SW overkill, and I am fucking sick of it

>>81965972

Yes we make destroyers but we haven't decided to just not make nuclear weapons, moron.

Why couldn't they just fucking adapt the Thran Trilogy of the New Jedi Order series?

Did they just want to pretend to be original due to marketing strategy despite stealing half ot ANH plot or they needed to make something light-hearted and PC?

>>81966026
>Implying they aren't
That speech scene right before they fired the sooper dooper Deathstar might as well have had them heiling and yelling Sieg Heil.

>>81966311

You're a fucking retarded redditor.

The problem with warships and weapons like Star of Death and Starkiller are the resources that you have lost if they are defeated. This is the principle of efficiency that prevents you from making warships today

Inb4: b - but was supposed to be invincible! You do not work with this shallow-minded hypothesis in the military. Someone can always see a flaw when you do not.

>>81966350
Ego

Every new director wants shit done HIS way.

That's why Mark Hamill's pissed off

>>81965630
>movie has nothing to do with race or gender
>never at any point mentioned or addressed in any sort of capacity
>Empire never demonstrates any sort of racial preferences
I fucking hate shit like this. He's just making shit up that isn't there for brownie points.

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>>81966149
Well the Tidal Waves were fucking up Iserlohn´s aiming and since Iserlohn´s mass pulled Geiersburg liquid armor, it made it better by concentrating it towards Iserlohn

>>81966578
>>Empire never demonstrates any sort of racial preferences
It acutally did in the expanded universe.
The emperor despise non-human species, Mitth'raw'nuruodo was the only non-human admiral.

Funny because Disney killed it and said that everything that wasn't part of their films was a fanfic from now on.

>>81966887
Mas Amedda, the fucking vicerroy and emperor´s right handman was a fucking ayy

>>81966887
>expanded universe.
literally stopped reading right there
fanfic is not a relevant source of information

>>81965800
>After the destruction of ships like Bismark and Yamato people found out that the force is on the number, not at the size.

Actually the lesson was that airplanes>ships

>>81964790
What was Snoke doing during the Galactic Civil War?

>>81966917
Ok, so two blue aliens in a huge empire.
>>81966932
>fanfic is not a relevant source of information
It used to be canon. Before TFA The New Jedi Order was the aftermath of the OT.

>>81967031
>It used to be canon.
And thank god it isn't anymore.

>>81966887
>It acutally did in the expanded universe.
Who the fuck cares about the expanded universe? It's all fanfiction.
If he wanted that to be a thing, he very well could've written it into the movie.

>>81967072
It's still better than TFA, you must admit it.
>>81967079
> It's all fanfiction.
See >>81967031

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>>81966984
He was sitting in the tree

>>81965769
The writer said the Imperials are the good guys in the game's story. He said that in response to some queer asking him if the main character will join the good guys.

>>81967031
>It used to be canon.
And yet it was never addressed or brought up or shown in any sort of way in a movie that was supposedly about a multi-ethnic group taking on white supremacists.

>>81965914
It's not a military strategy. It's a political tool. It's made to subject planets into submission. Imagine if you were the only country with nukes, who would fuck with you?

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>>81967031
Yeah, only two of the most important persons and administrators of the empire.

>>81967161
>It's still better than TFA
No. Expanded Universe as a whole is a contradictory, convulated and at times plain retarded mess. I mean it was not even really canon considering anyone could hardly claim it had the same importance and weight that movies have.

The way new canon works, atleast for now, is much better. While the old EU was pretty much just rubberstamped shit glued around the movies, the new canon is what it should be - the extension of the universe. This might change in few years but for now, ithat's what it is.

>>81967161
A.) What does it formerly being canon have to do with anything?
B.) Even if it still was-- How can you argue this was a story about race when it was never actually addressed by the film?
Like, really, I need to go read some book that may or may not be canon so I can properly put this movie in context?
This is the stupidest argument I've heard this week.

>>81967313
>implying Rogue One isn't totally contradictory with A New Hope too

>>81965348
>expecting /tv/ to have watched movies it criticizes

>>81964828
the most retarded shit is

>consume a star to destroy few planets
>no more star = all the star sistem is dead
>the weapon charge is more dangerous tahn the weapon itself

>>81967349
>What does it formerly being canon have to do with anything?
The Emperor was racist on the old canon.
>How can you argue this was a story about race when it was never actually addressed by the film?
I didn't say it was, nigger.

>>81967363
how come?

>>81967469
Just Google it.

>>81967313
Well you're an amazing idiot.

>>81967530
All the contradictions and continuity issues are minor nitpicks like wording in several sentences that could be justified with hard enough mental gymnastics. Not something I'd call "totally contradicts"

>>81964790
You're thinking too hard about it, Anon. There's a reason the contractors discussion in Clerks was a JOKE. It's absurd to actually seriously discuss such things about a movie with space wizards.

Disney StarWars is not canon

>>81967685
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

>>81964952
>>81965125
>>81965158
>>81965233
>>81966233
>>81966144
>>81966066
>>81965993
>>81965408

the funny thing is, people ahted the prequel trilogy because it had politics

now people arguing about politics when the movie barely had none

people really don't knows what they want

>>81967965
> Wiki
Every film Disney has made is like Fan Fiction.

>>81968065
I loved the political parts of the prequels

>>81968091
They decide what is and what is not canon, deal.

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>>81968091
>>81967685
>you right now

>>81967031
>it used to be canon

Except it wasn't, George was always clear on what was canon

>>81966135
There are three factions
>New Republic
>Resistance
>First Order

no, I don't understand how that makes any sense either

>>81968144
>no, I don't understand how that makes any sense either
Resistance is rebellion within First Order territory, covertly funded from within the New Republic.

Literal 8th grader could understand this.

>>81968144
>the Resistence attacks the First Order
>the First Order doesn't give a shit and mostly attacks the New Republic
>the New Republic are a bunch of beta and don't attack anyone

Bravo, Adams.

>>81965158
If they had already gotten into a shooting war with the big stuff, yes, they would indeed go polish off the USSR.

MAD is only active before they start flying, not after. After, you go finish the job.

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>>81965840
>Zarn Consortium
Urai, get this motherfucker desintegrated.

>>81968198
Why covertly though? The First Order is openly hostile towards the New Republic. Why is Leia part of the Resistance instead of the New Republic?

>>81968516
>>81965210

>>81968379
Thing is, first order and new republic never really got into shooting war with each other. New Republic support for The Resistance mirrors that of US support for Taliban during the soviet invasion of afghanistan. (Obviously with the exception that resistance operates within the first order's territory)

>>81968516
See first part of my post. US was never entirely open about it's support for Taliban and always maintained some degree of plausible deniability, just like Soviet Union was not entirely open for it's support for Vietcong. And it was same with either side's support for any of the South American far left or far right guerillas.

>>81968615
Neither the US or the Soviets were actively invading the other country though.

>>81965900
It was in a different system or it would have been destroyed, too.

See, the thing not only blasts faster than light, but it sends out the light from what's going on, like the target planets exploding, faster than light too so everyone can see it happen live and get real scaredlike.

>surface shows no forestation
>end fight is in a forest
someone explain this bullshit

>>81964790
Why did a stormtrooper who pulled janitor duty have access to the Starkiller blueprints ?

>>81968615
That's because the USA and USSR were rivals with comparable military capabilities and they didn't want to start WWIII. The First Order is NOT supposed to be anywhere near as powerful as the New Republic.

>>81968516
It's like Russia annexed Crimea, and instead of electing Hillary the republic elected Donald, and Hillary instead decided to create a secret army to operate inside Russia

>>81968691
black people are just that smart, deal with it.

>>81968643
And First Order was not in war with New Republic.

If you want verbatim real life variant of the EPVIII political situation it would be like US covertly funding separatist group somewhere in Caucasus and Soviet Union then using this as an excuse start a war by conducting nuclear on Washington DC.

>>81968724
New Republic does not want to start a war either.

>The First Order is NOT supposed to be anywhere near as powerful as the New Republic.
But it's not supposed to be some irrelevant bunch of naziboos either.

It is clearly powerful enough for the republic to not want to incite a war with them.

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I just got through watching Rogue One. Jesus christ that was miles better than Force Awakens. This made me feel like I had just seen a true sequel to the original films. Weird feeling, after all those years.

>>81968724
>>81968796
>The First Order is NOT supposed to be anywhere near as powerful as the New Republic.
No, the republic is supposed to think that. I think it's supposed to be like Nazi Germany and the politics of appeasment. The western leaders did not believe Hitler was a threat up until he started annexing everyone's shit.

>>81964828
>only one star destroyer
Really? I thought it was implied they had more than what we see on screen.

>>81968065
I for one loved the politics in the prequels because I think they weren't used in excess and I think this movie severely lacked politics scenes to at least have a better idea of what's going on and who's who. I don't like having to actually read a book or a comic or an encyclopedia to know what's going on, those are only supposed to expand on what we see on screen imo.

>>81968975
They have 3

>>81968975
Where was the fleet then?

Why wasn´t Starkiller base protected?

What is even Poe's rank?

Does the """"resistance"""" have any pollitical power inside thier systems or what?

>all the retards arguing about ussr and usa etc.
first order is north korea with actual nuclear strike capability that decides to nuke washington after USA decides to start funding some sort of resistance group within

was it that hard

>>81969051
I don't know much about this shitty nu-canon but I think the Resistance is just a guerrilla that fights for the New Republic, because the New Republic won't fight for its own safety.
The Resistance thinks the First Order is a threat, the New Republic does not, so the Resistance fights the First Order, but they don't have planets under their control, only the First Order and the New Republic do?
(someone correct me if I'm wrong)

>>81969154
Pretty much correct.
>shitty nu-canon
Not any less shitty than the previous one tho tbqh famalamdingdong

>>81964790

>Implying that Abrams actually put an ounce of thought into backstory of the Empire

>>81969140
I think in this case the New Republic doesn't fund the Resistance, that's why their tech is allegedly old.
And the First Order is totally space nazis.

>>81969191
Hey, I unironically liked Luuke.

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Snoke is an Old Republic-era lord, king or emperor that fled to the unknown regions with his riches

will explain the funds that the first order has, and the knights of ren/emperors guard will be revealed to be some weird species he brought with him (maybe the same as Snoke)

>>81969246
Sounds good, I hope they go with that

>>81969282
forgot to mention that the earliest Jedi chased him off which is why he hates them/had them killed

bonus points for Rian if he makes the earliest Jedi morally ambigious or bad like conqueror warrior kings n shiet who were not much better than Snoke

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So I was checking and the Resistance only has a commisioned rank structure.

All the enlisted are just enlisted, no difference between them.

It goes LT>Captain>Major>Commander>Colonel>Gen/Adm

what fucking bullshit, that's it

>>81969403
its a teeny underfunded subset of pissed off/unhappy Republic admirals and soldiers, that's why it's not that structured

the Republic is playing a bigger part in TLJ anyway (Laura Dern is a republic admiral who tries to wrestle control from Leia/Poe)

>>81969140
>>81965397

>>81968121
>>81969032

i loved those part too, because they make the story interesting

but all the hard fanby whined against the politics, to the point that in SW7 they destroy all the whole republic even before telling us wtf that republic was
that shene had no emotion att all

>>81965806
Worst part was Han pointed that out in the war room scene.

>>81964790
The real question is why can't they build hundreds of them and fleets in the hundreds of millions when they control numerious star systems?

Our solar system alone has resources to build a million star destroyers sized ships and still have more than enough resources to maintain a civilization.

>>81965806

You're arguing specs but the results speak for themselves.

With the Starkiller Base they managed to destroy the capital system of the New Republic.

Bear in mind Snoke wasn't too phased by its destruction so all this is just a means to an end for him.

>>81966000
So centrepoint station?

>>81968065
The politics in the prequels was alright, they just should have down played ut rather than attempting to use it for drama. Politics exists to explain shit, not add emotion. Politics is terrible for generating drama. C SPAN isn't exactly emotionally enaggaging

>>81968198
I must have missed the part were they explained that in the movie.

JJ and Kasdan copied ANH without understanding what ANH did.

muh rebels/resistance
muh empire/first order
muh death star/starkiller

GOOD ENOUGH

DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL MOVIE DIDN'T (expect it explained enough)

>>81970101
>I must have missed the part were they explained that in the movie.
I remember understanding it after the first viewing.
Must have been me not being complete retard. Oh well.

not saying the movie was not shit,
it was, but this was made pretty clear from the both the context
and the dialogue tbqh

>>81970068
It'd only take a few minutes. Problem with TFA is it wants to push on to the next action scene so any chance for some exposition gets left in the dust. Best to turn off you brain and not think about anything that happens in the movie.

banpu

>>81965342
>stakes
>on a disney movie
kek

>>81965806
>>81965270
It moves though.
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/679446383925960704

The more I think about Star Wars 7, the more it pisses me off.

It undid literally everything accomplished in the originals.

> There is no longer balance to the force
> The empire has still not been defeated
> There is a new, even better death star so Luke and Lando accomplished nothing longterm
> Leia is not learning to be a Jedi
> Leia and Han are not together
> Han is back to being a somewhat sleazy smuggler
> Luke is still learning to be a Jedi
> The prophecy of the originals was apparently meaningless, because Anakin's redemption apparently accomplished nothing.
> It even undid little things like Luke losing his saber, which was somehow recovered from falling into an abyss

>>81972092
Just pretend it's not canon, anon.
It's fiction after all, you can consider nothing happened after episode VI.

>>81972210

>pretend

Star Wars Ended with episode 6, anything past that is just a giant "what if" scenario.

>>81972266
Yeah, I know, they cannot force us do believe that's canon just because they want money, but that also why we don't have any reason to get mad.

>>81964790
Why make a deathstar? Orbital bombardment is more than enough to make a world uninhabitable. Hell, strap some thrusters to a pretty big rock and you can ruin it for a generation.

If they had spent the time and materials just making a more widespread fleet, they could have far greater coverage as well as absolute destruction of any planet.

In other words, star wars is retarded so don't worry about it.

>>81972365
>Why make a deathstar? Orbital bombardment is more than enough to make a world uninhabitable.
KOTOR Did this.

>>81972406
>KOTOR
I remember the Star Forge, but only by name. Is that what it did?

I played it a couple decades ago, I don't really remember much besides an assassin droid, a few locations and the tweest

>>81972092
History repeats itself, it's like poetry.

>>81965408
i dont think that map is canon

>>81972092
>Leia is not learning to be a Jedi
yeah, wtf was the point of Leia being luke's sister if she never went on to be a force user?

>>81969154
didnt the resistence have their base on cocaineum?

>>81972738
Oh, no. the first planet in the game gets orbital bombarded into submission by the empire.

The Star Forge used a mixture of the force and the energy of a nearby star to shit out resources to make ships with.

Now that I think about it, that just makes the Starkiller base even less original. It's just a Death Star + The Star Forge

>>81972889
So they removed KOTOR from cannon just to steal from it?

That sounds about right.