Long time atheist here, was Jesus insane? I know what you're

None of it even happened, it's just a version of a common mythos shared with many other religions. Fiction.

File: kek.jpg (38KB, 361x262px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 361x262px

>>81858605

If you do consider that he is God, then it is more understandable.

Christianity is kinda complex on all of it's theological stuff, but I do think that it makes sense if you buy the whole God thing.

>>81858680
I saw this film in store on the non-fiction shelf. Checkmate atheist.

>>81858605
Jesus is part of God. This is actually why He is called Christ, it's not his name, it's his title. It may seem insane to think that if he was the son of God, then he could just stop it all. And yet, he continued on with it. The reason being because He loved us (and I mean EVERYONE). But now you might ask "How does dying on a cross mean loving us?" Back in Jesus' time, Jews would sacrifice animals, including lambs, as an offering to God, which would, in some hopes, forgive them of sin. Jesus was made to be not just a lamb, but a lamb of God. This is evident if you were to read or even watch a movie about the nativity. His Passion was an offering to God to forgive the sins of the whole world. To allow the forgiveness of sins. The reason it had to be Jesus though is because he was born without original sin, which comes from Adam and Eve. And the reason Jesus was born without original sin, is because his conception came from God, rather than from mere humans. Now keep in mind, He knew all this. He knew about the passion. It is said throughout the New Testament. He knew that it was his destiny to die on a cross, but to return from the grave and bring everyone closer to God.

Sorry for the long read.

>>81859116
>Go to film store
>Put it in the fiction section
Haha, another win for atheism!

>>81858680
None of those apparently connected myths bear the slightest resemblance to Jesus's story.

What did Jesus get up to after resurrection? Did he die again of age or did he just disappear or what? My primary school education just seemed to stop after the empty tomb bit

>>81859615
He was around for 50 days, at some point he appeared inside the place the apostles were hangin and said shalom. They didn't berlieve it was really him until he showed him the wounds in his hands and side. Eventually he ascended to heaven while The Final Countdown played

>>81859729
I knew status quo were legendary, just didn't realise they were of biblical proportions. Bet it was a bit embarrassing for the apostles, total bunch of doubting Thomas'

>>81859514
>slghtest resemblance
Hilarious. Believe whatever story you want to, they're all equally fictional. You can believe that highly, highly original Christian story if you want to though there are more entertaining ones. Christianity is so zzzzzzz

>>81859898
I think the bible reboot 'matrix revolutions' did the story better justice to be fair, the fight with the Anderson's and resurrection neo was great

File: 1452853727167.jpg (619KB, 1035x1359px) Image search: [Google]

619KB, 1035x1359px

>>81859898

Unlike myths, Jesus was documented in the century of his death and his existence was never contested by Jewish or Roman authorities.

>>81860176
Iris bringing back some one from the dead to have sex with them before they died again is some effort, why didn't he just use a prostitute

>>81860176
>He thinks posting some corrected meme shit makes his fairy tale real
Nope

Okay let's break down this ridiculous story. Jesus died for our sins right? But that was not necessary. God can just forgive our sins. So I guess it's just a big show so we understand. In that case Jesus and God did this whole bit just to communicate a message, which means that they are the WORST COMMUNICATORS IMAGINABLE. I mean look at the Bible and the church and all of it. Can you get any more fucking confusing and vague? But hey, it's just GOD after all. So we can't expect too much of him, like making an ounce of freaking sense. But here's our highly confusing message that apparently you must puzzle out with whatever information you get and then live your life according to our teachings whatever your interpretation might be. But make sure you don't interpret it wrong or you go to hell and burn for all eternity.

Trust us guys it's all in the book which is thousands of pages long and was written in another language and translated multiple times over hundreds of years. Just read that a few times and it will all make sense.
Or don't read it and just obey and give your money to clergy and it will be fine

>>81858680
>tips fedora

>>81860558
This guy gets it

>>81859373
I understand that, but only partially. Why would God need his son to die in order to forgive the sins? It wasn't a solemn, human sacrifice of the Lamb, it was more of an ignorant, jewish and abrasive murder of a new, "strange" prophet.

Why haven't we had a second flood to reverse creation given that the world has far more evil in it now than it ever did when Noah built the ark. I found the film Noah to be surprisingly entertaining and would like to watch a sequel

>>81860558
READ SOME FUCKING THEOLOGY

WATCH A VIDEO

ORIGINAL SIN YOU DUMB FUCK LOOK IT UP

>>81860558
What you're missing is that for the old Jews, sin is paid for with a holocaust, usually a cow or bird or some shit. The sins of the people offering the animal are 'transferred' to the animal, and the animal is killed. Jesus is supposed to be the ultimate [final] sacrifice, taking on the sins of all humanity and dying, then destroying death. If you would actually read the fucking book you would get this, but nobody wants to do that.

>>81860993
Divinity original sin is good but that seems a little off topic anon

>>81860855
Because after the flood God said "I'm not going to do that again, here's a rainbow to prove it"

READ THE BOOK AT LEAST A LITTLE.

>>81861049
Does that mean I won't get to watch a sequel to Noah? Balls.

>>81860994
I find it too convoluted in order to just say "your sins are forgiven"!

Though I guess the old Jews actually learned that?

>>81858605
Since its supposed to be biblical Jeaus in the film, you could argue that the strength of God got him to get through the pain up until the crucifixion.

If you want to talk about reality, I suppose it's a matter of faith...or lack there of.

Last Temptation of Christ does a good job of walking the "Was Jesus crazy?" line (at first...once he has his vision in the desert he becomes biblical Jesus but the first 3rd of the movie he's portrayed as some guy who is possibly just nuts).

>>81861188
Ancient sand-people religions have a lot of arbitrary ritual. It's just how it is.

>>81861049
How did the two of each animal get picked? Did God do a lottery to decide the lucky winners? I don't really want to buy the book

>>81858605
yes, and so is mel gibson

ITT: mortals discuss the actions of an omnipotent being as though they can grasp infinite wisdom when half of them can't even figure out how to set the timer on their DVR

The only thing I know is that I know nothing.

>>81861258
>7 The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

14 of every animal Jews were allowed to eat, 4 of everything else. All chosen at Noah's discretion because animals are unimportant.

>>81861226
They're actually not so arbitrary, it just seems that way through the modern eye.

Take the practice of Kosher, for example. Pork and shellfish spoil fast, and when you live in a hit, arid region, it spoils even faster.

Some goat herder in 5,000 BC doesn't know why he gets sick from eating pork, he just does. So he tells another goat herder, who tells another, who tells another...and the next thing you know it's "Well I guess we're getting punished for eating this for some reason."

It's not logical, but this is primitive society we're talking about. The history behind religious law is pretty interesting.

>>81861301
So what are the requirements for Jews to be allowed to eat them? Does it really just boil down to their cleanliness?

>>81858605
He knew what was going through. Luke 22:42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done"

>>81858680
found hte redditor pretty quick in this one.

>>81861655
Why didn't he want god to take his will? Things can get messy without one, I'd imagine the disciples would be arguing over who gets what and property ownership! You just know the state would try and take as much as they could

>>81858605
If you're an atheist why do you believe Jesus sacrificed himself? Is there historical proof he allowed himself to be tortured willingly?

>>81860816
2 things:
1. Since sin came by man (Adam), it had to be a man to atone for sin. The lambs sacrificed in the old testament we're just foreshadowings of the "Lamb who takes away the sin of the world". It would be like a judge allowing a dog or cat to serve time instead of a convicted felon...
2. Jesus was murdered by the Jews, but at the same time he said "no one takes away my life, I lay it down myself". So while they were guilty of murdering the son of God, they couldn't have laid a finger on him if he didn't allow it.

>>81860558
Tell me how a judge (God) can "just forgive" a crime (sins) and be called a just and fair judge.

The awesome thing about Jesus dying on the cross is that it demonstrates both God's justice, (in demanding a sacrifice/atonement for sin...I.e., not "just forgiving") and God's love (He sent his own Son to suffer and die- and be the atonement for- for those he loved.)

The cultural gap is too great. You'll never truly understand what sold these tales to the ancients because you'll never get to truly experience their way of life. It's best to not worry about it.

>>81861286
He has made much about himself known though, Anon. Even just looking at nature. The creator is smart, inventive, appreciative of beauty, kind , benevolent, and many more

>>81861999
Yeah but Jesus then came back from the dead, it's kind of cheating. Like I get four life sentences in jail but I'm let out after a week

>>81860816
>I understand that, but only partially. Why would God need his son to die in order to forgive the sins?
Its is a reconciliation of mercy and justice. God possess both.

> It wasn't a solemn, human sacrifice of the Lamb, it was more of an ignorant, jewish and abrasive murder of a new, "strange" prophet.

Of course it was violent and humiliating. Its even more so if you are Catholic, and believe the process also necessitates us eating Christ's flesh in the Eucharist. He literally cannot humanly becoming any lower then He was during this. Why? One because our punishment of sin would not necessary be only painful, it would also be humiliating. Shame should be the natural consequence of sin, and by accepting the punishment on our behalf, shame is included in Christ's passion. Secondly, the sheer horror, pain and humiliation Christ experiences ensures that no sin, committed now or until the end of time, could ever be too great for His sacrifice not to forgive.

As for no sane person could go through this. Christ is literally the best person ever lived, if one person is capable of doing it, out of pure love, it is Him. even then, however, he experiences and almost unbearable agony at its prospect in the garden.

File: jews.png (260KB, 621x681px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 621x681px

>mel gibson was redpilled enough to show an entire generation that jews killed christ

>>81862056
These tales are universal and deep and still speak today Anon. What about them doesn't make sense to you?

>>81862071
If Jesus fed 5000 with two loaves of bread and some cod why do 20 million people face starvation now? If god is kind and benevolent why do children have bone cancer? You can tell me he works in mysterious ways, I'd tell you he works in cruel and evil ways

>>81862158
God has always makes his followers go through trials and tribulations.

>>81862158
What are the beatitudes? Idle promises? God makes the state of things clear. People who suffer in this life can expect the greatest reward in the next. It is this promise of an eternal reward on behalf of temporal punishment that motivated countless martyrs's and ascetics, Christ Himself, His mother, his closest friends to endure terrible pain. The direct correlation to pain and holiness was so closely understood that throughout the early Church's history only martyrs were honored with the title Saint. The notion that we deserve rewards in this life for fidelity is a movement that began only relatively recently in christianity.

>>81862072
I get what you're saying, but consider that Jesus didn't just get a death sentence. He was experiencing the punishment due for the sins of the whole world. And this was the perfect, spotless lamb doing it. There really isn't a way to grasp just how much he actually did suffer. One of the Greek words to describe Jesus'work is propitiation, which means like taking the full brunt of God's punishment. And God can deal out a lot of punisihment

>>81862235
If giving small children fatal diseases and starving millions of people to death is his idea of trials and tribulations he is not a god that is in any way deserving of respect or love.

>>81862126
The narrative of god himself coming to the world in flesh and letting jews kill him so he can rid humanity of their sin and then resurrecting is not universal. Its logic is convoluted compared to other religious texts which were mostly written by historical winners. Jesus just got BTFO so hard that the apostles had to retcon his whole story.

>>81862307
Well with that statement all I can say is enjoy this life to the full extent because, you'll be spending an eternity in hell.

>>81862158
See
>>81862272
For some good answers. I would also ask a question to you - if you decide to do some sort of evil tomorrow like pollute a stream of steal someone's coat, should God stop you somehow? I'm getting at the issue of free will. If God made the world like a giant playpen where no one could get hurt and no suffering could take place, and we just loved God and obeyed him because there was no alternative, our love wouldn't mean anything.

Also keep in mind that He suffered greater than anyone ever has, as Jesus suffered for the sins of the whole world. It's not like he can't identify with the world's suffering

>>81862422
I'll take the first bus there, better than to spend an eternity with a so called benevolent psychopath who gets his kicks from torturing his subjects

>>81862487
I'm all for free will, if I chose to murder tomorrow I deserve all the damnation coming my way. I don't see how a child born into extreme poverty, famine and disease is in any way a result of free will

>>81862158
>The last shall be first and the first shall be last
Really makes you think.

>>81860176
>Bill Maher
>comedian

>>81862284
>propitiation
And more importantly expiation. He suffers for every sin comitted, wether you believe in him or not.
So if you're a christian, but act like a shitty person, you're literally spitting in his face.

>>81862323
Well, it looked like he got BTFOd, until he rose from the dead with the keys of hell and death, and who is now sitting at the right hand of God, with all the angels and demons subject to him. So, I'd say he actually didn't need much of a retcon.

>>81862307
Tell that to Job.
Eating shit and being grateful for the peanut is a tenant of faith. Ask literally and catholic or jew.

>>81862323
>>81862323
Because you cannot grasp the concept of an Infinite or All-powerful God. For such an entity, inherently satisfied in His mere being, any action, even creation itself, is an act of astounding mercy on His part. The notion that you find it somehow beneath Him to become Incarnated or losing a trial, you diminish His own preexistent status, and elevate man's status. To a truely infinite God, the notion of being king of the world, or an undisputed victor of the human race, glorified and honored by all men is still such a downgrade it would be comparatively shameful to accept, compared to the true status of Divinity. As for submitting to the corrupt justice of this world, He clearly states He will find glory in His own kingdom, which will put any earthy glory to shame.

>>81862567
>I don't see how a child born into extreme poverty, famine and disease is in any way a result of free will
Its the free will of those with the means to help, who don't.
Fides, Spes et Caritas, anon. The most important being charity.

>>81858605
Jesus was the houdini of his time. Walking on water? Turning water to wine? Just magic tricks. He just failed his final trick of escaping from the cross he was nailed onto.

>>81862702
God takes everything from him just to check that he really loves him then gives him even prettier daughters as a reward
I'm sorry I don't understand why you'd want to follow that

Why didn't jeaus just fly the eagles to heaven instead?

>>81862567
Yeah dude, but what if the person you murdered was a small innocent child? You said you were for free will but every bit of suffering in this world is caused by someone else's free will. So free will also means accepting the consequences of our decisions. Should he stop the bullet if you fire the gun?

>>81862813
>He just failed his final trick of escaping from the cross he was nailed onto.
He escaped from his tomb. Where is your god now athiest?

>>81862956
Im sorry but I simply cannot agree that cancer is the result of some ones free will

What's the moral of Isaac and Abraham?

>>81862818
No, he proves to the devil that among the righteous, spiritual faith can't be broken by physical trial.
Shitty things happen in real life, and there is nothing anyone can do. You can either shit on everyone around you like a sperg, or buckle down and move forward as best you can. If you can keep your pluck up you might just be rewarded.
The unworthy aren't tested.

>>81862879
I am one of the Christanons in this thread, and I think this is hilarious

>>81859373
>part
heh

File: dubsofgod.jpg (202KB, 695x1120px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 695x1120px

Checkmate atheists.

If Christianity is essentially born from Christ's life, death and resurrection what happened to all those born before Jesus? Were all those ancient civilisations damned for being born in the wrong time period?

>>81863326
They had animal sacrifices as a stopgap measure.

File: descent-to-hell-by-duccio-1308-11jpg-d29b336d8cdaa7e3.jpg (57KB, 470x428px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 470x428px

>>81863326
>What is the Harrowing of Hell?

>>81863020
What about the cancers caused by agent orange, or the atomic bombs. Many "natural disasters" happen but most of the suffering in this world is caused by the actions of people.

But my point is that it's not some vengeful, malevolent God causing cancer in innocent children. Humans using their own, God given free will do things that cause it.

>>81863284

rolling for god

>>81863326
You do realize that in the bible there's two parts the new testaments which were about Jesus and the other part was the old testament. Which also had Jesus in it.

>>81863401
So it's a bit like that bit in god of war where you climb out of Hades but instead of slashing off dead people arms he gives em a ride to heaven?

Seriously though which of the disciples volunteered to pop down to hell with Jesus to document what was going on?

>>81863433
>by the actions of people.
By the inaction of people. Jesus was an activist and a rabble rouser. Turning a blind eye is as bad as doing the deed yourself.

>>81863326
It's an evangelical religion. You're supposed to spread the gospel or "good news" to as many people as you can. If you haven't heard of his sacrifice you can't be blamed for not accepting him, but that means you're not counted among the saved and face oblivion rather than life at the side of god after death.
This was recconciled by Dante bringing in purgatory as the first level of hell where "noble pagans" went after death. Its not heaven, but its better than hell.

>It's a /tv/ is suddenly fluent in catholic dogma episode
Christian Gnosticism is the superior christianity.

>>81863851
>Dante bringing in purgatory as the first level of hell
You mean Limbo, and Dante didn't invent either of those.

>>81864203
Yeah well fuck, its been a decade since I read it.

>>81863326
The people in the Old Testament were saved by having faith in God's Word
Jesus was the Word made flesh

>>81863075
And if God exists he has the power to make shitty things not happen in real life but chooses not to for some reason. Not even some reason, literally no reason.

>>81862567
>free will causes the situation of poverty [there are plenty of resources, it's a distribution problem]
>child is born into poverty
>hurr how did this free will

>>81862091
>Secondly, the sheer horror, pain and humiliation Christ experiences ensures that no sin, committed now or until the end of time, could ever be too great for His sacrifice not to forgive.

What about the sin of necrophilia? Why wasn't that part of the passion?

>>81866219
Necrophilia can be forgiven. Literally any sin. Learn to read.