Was this the greatest debate kino of our era? https://www.

Fuck off you retarded Christian. Religion is a plague on the Earth and the sooner people realize this the sooner we can collectively move on as a species.

>>81845116
>Ken Ham
>Creationist
>Australian
makes sense

>>81845143
You don't have to be a Christian to believe in Creationism dummy.

who cares about shit like this?

>>81845186
People who care about truth.

>>81845169
no but it helps since christianity already has a creator

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>>81845143
Where are we going as a species? Evolution isn't a sort of transcendence. It has no higher purpose but survival. A slug is as evolved as a human.

>>81845169
no, but you'd be even more pathetic than christcucks

Creationism is not just bad science. It is bad religion.

Thinking that God's creation of our world is limited to your simple reading of the English translation of the creation story of the Bible is blasphemy. Even in religous classes I learned there are two contraditory stories in Genesis to say nothing of other Hebrew creation texts.

>>81845224
and what kind of truth did you learn from watching this?

nothing. just a bunch of whiners who are whining about who is wrong and right, when it's all irrelevant to how you should live your life.

>>81845116
>athiests think theyre right
>they think everything just randomly came about
>they think gravity, space, mass and light arent gods inventions
>they think theyre smart

oh i am laffin.

If you are a true Christian with faith in Christ, nothing about evolution and science contradicts Christianity.

It only challanges your simple ideas about the creation of this world.

The glory of God and his creation is beyond even words in the Bible.

>>81845167
There are literally almost zero percent creationist demographics in Australia.

That's probably why he moved to the states.

>he thinks Jesus is God
>when Jesus was killed
>he's a christian
>when Jesus was a jew
laffin to hide the pain i guess

>>81845116
>engineer being any authority on biology
Same with the climate change debate with Sarah Palin. Stick to your field of expertise, nigger. Literally a meme ''''''scientist'''''.

>>81845116
>aircraft mechanic gets dubbed "the science guy" because it rhymes with his surname
>this makes him an authority on scientific matters

jesus christ america

>>81845116
Creationism is retarded and does not belong in our education curriculum. If you choose to believe that our existence is designed by a higher being, without any direct evidence, that's your prerogative. But don't hoist that belief onto others and definitely don't treat it like it should be studied alongside observable science.

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>LE I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE XD engineer vs creationist idiot
Don't know which I hate more.

>>81845291
>religious cuck thinks they're right
>think some diseased warring farmers who believed the Earth was flat who wrote a shitty old tome is an accurate account of the creation of the universe
>atheists/religious folks actually thinking they have the answers to the creation of all existence when they're just a bunch of hairless apes on one of a trillion worlds in the universe who haven't even achieved outer-solar space travel

Atheism and religion were mistakes

>>81845330
He's usually the first to tell people that he's only a layman when it comes to science and that his mission is to make the dumbass American public more open to studying science for the benefit of all.

I'm from Seattle, so I actually visited his home when I was a kid. That was during the heyday of his show. He had all kinds of neat shit, but we could tell he was in a bad mood. He still feigned enthusiasm like a professional. I've heard from other people who grew up in the area, and had the same field trips, that he acted the same way. Maybe he just doesn't like kids.

>>81845348
>Don't shove your beliefs on others!!!1!
>Meanwhile let me force your children into government schools where we teach them leftist atheist values and punish them for nonconformity

>>81845584
>teach them leftist atheist values

and they're putting fluoride in our water!

fuck off conspiracy cuck

>>81845116
>Creationist
This faggot is an embarrassment to the Christian community

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>2017
>not being an atheist
what is wrong with you? a thousands years from now, people will laugh at your beliefs
>i choose not to be an atheist because i don't want to associate with atheists
could you be more of a coward?

yeah i'm talking to you.

>>81845143
>move on as a species
Where to?

I'm an atheist but I can't really stomach Bill Nye. I'd be pleased even if he was shat on during a debate about bigfoot or Nessie.

>>81845610
>and they're putting fluoride in our water!
>fuck off conspiracy cuck

What conspiracy? They literally are you fucking retard. And it's the same with pushing egalitarianism and relativism in government schools. This shit is not hidden.

>>81845584
You sir are a conspiracy theorist because you have an opinion that differs from mine regardless if its based on fact and logic

>>81845479
All atheists are paedophiles

>>81845691
No they aren't. Public education is not indoctrination and plenty of us got a good, balanced education through American public schools.

You're obviously biased, or else ignorant, in thinking that it's only a brainwashing station.

You only think that way because you think tolerance for other people and ideas is a vice and not a virtue. You're closed-minded and the purpose of school is to create open-minded, critically thinking individuals.

>>81845647
I was an edgy atheist until I left high school when I realized that you're as arrogant as Christians. The universe is too big and too old for our feeble minds to comprehend, so why assert one universal theory or the other?

Maybe there's some metaphysical being that had reached the pinnacle of evolution and created the universe, or what we'd interpret as God. Maybe the Big Bang created it. Or, more likely, it was because of something we have yet to theorize on.

>>81845291
>The sky magic man did it is a better answer than "Well I don't know that yet"

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>>81845116

Literally reditt

>>81845116
>Ken Ham brought forward about even the fundamentals of scientific knowledge.

he bought nothing.

>>81845785
>The universe is too big and too old for our feeble minds to comprehend,
actually the universe is pretty desolate and barren. Its a Miracle we exist at all

>>81845685
I'd only ever respect any atheist debater if they actually had the balls to go into a debate where they had to move for the existence of God. When arguing for teh existence of God you have to try to explain existence itself, which atheists never do.

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>>81845647
>what is wrong with you? a thousands years from now, people will laugh at your beliefs

Quite the opposite. Atheists in literally every single country on this earth have negative birth rates. They base their lives around the doctrine of "eat and drink, for tommorow we die" and see children as a burden. Meanwhile right wing Christians breed above replacement levels, and fundamentalists often don't believe in birth control whatsoever and fug their wives until they have 10 kids.

Our genes are going to be the ones present in future generations. Your genes will die in your trendy hipster loft surrounded by garbage and cats.

>>81845848
It is far better than "magic did it, but I don't believe in magic, and free will is an impossibility under my belief system and your life is meaningless so you should probably just kill yourself right now since any amount of suffering is worse than zero"

It is a self defeating philosophy.

>>81845785
Atheism isn't a theory though, anon.

At its core, all it says is that because there is no definitive evidence of God, or a creative force directing and influencing the universe, then we should not base our laws, actions, and outlooks as if one does exist.

How is that irrational?

I know militant atheists are shitheads, but it really is the most sensible way to study existence - with the notion in mind that any possibility could arise to explain matters, and not that the source of all existence has to be a God that fits one specific image or another despite us not having any tangible proof of its presence.

>>81845968
That is agnosticism, as well as self evident.

>should not base our laws, actions, and outlooks as if one does exist.

how would you change this?

>>81845920
Even assuming that gigantic leap of logic it still beats worshipping an eldritch alien entity that murders innocent children. What guarantee do you have that "god" isn't just a space parasite? None, because he demands faith that he is right because he says so.

>>81845897
>pretty desolate and barren
Well, relativity and all that. The fact that there are billions (trillions?) of stars just in this galaxy, and there are the same amount of galaxies that are visible from Earth, the scale of the universe is unimaginable.

And with dark matter and dark energy, things we don't even understand making up the vast majority of the universe shows humanity has no grasp on the universe and especially how it was created. We're like children trying to understand nuclear physics, except the universe is exponentially more complicated.

I can't get behind anyone who claims without a doubt they know how that was created.

>>81845116
Why wasn't Ken Ham being debated by Christians for being a goddamned heretic rather than scientists for fake science

>>81846001
>gigantic leap


>worshipping an eldritch alien
>murders innocent children

>>81845968
That's not atheism, that's agnosticism. Atheism is the assertion there is no God without a doubt. Agnosticism is to admit not knowing if it does or not, and essentially living your life without God.

>>81846054
God is an alien because he is not from Earth, and it is clearly stated that he murders children in the bible.

>>81845780
>Public education is not indoctrination
>and plenty of us got a good, balanced education through American public schools
ummmm... literally no, sweetie.

>>81845998
Agnosticism tells us that we aren't sure of the source of existence but we shouldn't rule anything out.

Atheism says we should rule out God and seek other sources for our creation until we're shown any proof of its existence otherwise.

Agnosticism has space, and even some positive regard, for an Abrahamic God. Atheism basically rejects that potentiality and seeks to move past it to find a better explanation.

>>81845116
No, Tony Blair vs Christopher Hitchens was.

>>81846008
>live children trying to understand nuclear physics

Not really, and we can observe regularity in certain phenomena that allow us to predict how the universe behaves. You don't need to colonise the universe or witness every inch to understand it, Just as you personlly don't need to be in China to know the composition of the air, the ground, the types of animals there and so on.

>>81845998
>That is agnosticism

Oh, God, this shit again.

If anything, it's Agnostic Atheism -- because Agnosticism isn't a fucking middle-man/mutually-exclusive like intellectual cowards keep pushing.

If you don't believe in God [i.e. irreligious or just don't care], you're an Atheist; if you don't think there is a God, you're also an Atheist.

It's that simple. The matter of epistemology will answer if you're Gnostic or Agnostic on the subject.

Stop with this fence-sitting shit because someone is too fearful of the baggage of Atheism to admit their stance.

>>81845116
>lot of strong points about fossil layers and how animals would have had to die
this is hardly a point since almost all of it is fucking plant matter

>>81846100
Well that sounds like agnostic atheism to me. Unless you are sure, without a doubt there is no God? Are you 100% positive?

>>81846082
>most literate our nation has ever been
>rapid rate of technological advancement
>mostly due to a well-funded public education system

right, tell me again why it's bad to educate our children with tax money?

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>>81845143
Oh where going somewhere as a species alright, my fellow fedora friend

>>81846075
>God is an alien because he is not from Earth, and it is clearly stated that he murders children in the bible.

Without running off to Google or r/atheism, give me 3 chapters and verses where God "murders children".

>>81846111
Wow anon, you have it all figured out it seems.

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>>81845116
Why am I clicking on this thread?

>>81846136
Do your arms get tired moving the goalposts?

>>81846120
>atheist desperately wanting agnostics to be on his side so he pulls semantics out of his ass

>>81846111
But we don't understand it. Dark matter and dark energy make up the vast majority of the universe and we have no idea what they are.

And we can never truly know how the universe was created because we weren't there and can only observe what we hypothesize are its effects.

>>81846151
It is clearly stated that he killed firstborn sons in Exodus fuck off faggot.

>>81846133
Until shown otherwise, I think it's prudent to treat the situation of existence as anything other than 'created in 7 days by the hand of God'

I'd consider that Atheism, but I'm not one to quibble over terms, I guess. I don't believe in God and I don't think we should start from a place where we're trying to prove the existence of God for fear that we might miss other clues to our foundation and existence. Whatever that makes me in some course taught at a university is meh.

>>81846209
The children were sinless and were just brought to Heaven. The adults were sons of Belial and dickheads who had it coming.

Wasn't murder.

>>81846179
no, my liberal indoctrination gives me strength to battle the alt-right cuckolds forever!

;)

>>81846205
That isn't an argument, as soon as we do understand dark matter and energy you cucks will say 'oh but we don't understand dimensions' and on it goes. Also you don't have to be somewhere to discover what happened, what the fuck do you think geology or archaeology is? Events leave traces that can reveal their origins. If you beleive we'll never know how the universe is created, why even worship God in the first place?

>>81846270
Ah OK then I'm gonna go outside and murder innocents, then it's just "sending them to heaven xD". In fact, murder as a concept doesn't exist! Since if they're innocent they're just sent to heaven, and if they're sinful it's a justifiable punishment either way!

>>81846270
What about Sodom and Gomorrah? You know, where God destroys an entire village of people for their deviance, sparing Lot and his daughters (though not his wife, because she had the gall to defy him by looking back at the destruction, that bitch) so that they could have incest to continue the bloodline.

Or what about when Moses has the Levites slaughtered after he brings down the commandments and finds them worshipping the Golden Calf? Surely there were children, of God's chosen people no less, in that mess?

And keep in mind, this was before God established the second covenant through his son, permitting humanity forgiveness for their sins through the sacrifice of Christ.

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>>81846336
>Events leave traces that can reveal their origins.

Almost like the universe did when God created it.

Romans 1:20-23
>For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

>>81846353
>this is the extent of reddit's intellectual capabilities

>>81846120
Look up the definition of atheism you uneducated plebian.

>>81846485
Gen. 1:27 (KJV)

>So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So, which is it? Are we created in God's image purposefully, or do we assume that because the complexity of God, in comparison to our simplicity in being tethered to this plane of existence, is beyond us?

You can't have it both ways. Either we are shaped after our creator, and thus fully understood and forgiven for being his flawed creation, or he is some superbeing that will never be understood because he is so far beyond us that even attempting to comprehend his work is fruitless because we are so limited.

>how much truth Ken Ham brought forward about even the fundamentals of scientific knowledge.

he attacked the source of contradicting evidence when it could not be discredited scientifically.

>>81846540
>muh reddit
Idiot. It is entirely logically consistent with your bullshit about it "not reeeeally being murder".

>>81845116
>watching bill nye for more than 15 seconds
Hard pass

>>81846632
I see you were successfully taught to reject knowledge.

>>81846597
>because it is possible for something to be flawed, it must be flawed always
>if something cannot be understood, it can never be understood
this is how dum u r

just drop a load of acid, lads

Nye being a mechanical engineer arrogantly trying to act like he knows everything and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong reminds me of the whale biologist in Futurama.

>>81846384
to be fair to the death of Lot's wife, god turned her into something infinitely more valuable than a disobedient bitch. A fuckton of salt. Lot lived like a king off that shit.

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>>81846384
By what standard are you judging God, exactly?
Atheism implies moral subjectivism so you have no metric, no standard, by which to criticize literally anyone for that has no more authority than criticizing people for choice of preferred ice cream flavor. Oh but let me guess, you'll say well we judge by the greater good! And how the fuck do you know what God does isn't for "the greater good"?


In fact why are you even getting mad at someone you claim doesn't exist? I sure as fuck don't get mad at Krishna.

>>81846697
>having a basic understanding of science, the scientific method, and rationality
>this is acting like you know everything

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>>81845116
Bill: Well we have pretty empirically established evidence that this occurred this way because ______
Ken: I will direct you to a book that contains the truth :^)
*audience roars in applause*

Basically sums up the entire conversation that occurred.

>>81846720
>Atheism implies moral subjectivism
Actually so does theism. There is no difference in saying something is right because a human says so, or because your alien tyrant says so.

>>81846720
>god says don't do x, y, z
>god does x, y, z
>BURT UR MURUL SUBJECT!!

...

>>81845227
We're going nowhere. The earth will continue to get warmer, as it does naturally, until we die off like so many species before us.

>>81846658
No, just faggotry

>>81846660
if you're implying that humanity will progress, inexorably, towards omniscience, then negro I've got some bad news for you

>>81846827
public education trains you to think useful information and productive, non-magical thought is gay

>>81846162
To watch contrarians pretend to be religious.

>>81846700
Lot died in a cave, miserable from losing his wife, after his daughters forced him to inseminate them.

>>81846882
We were well past the point of even being able to even think about pretending all idiocy on 4chan was contrarian in 2010.

>>81846899
>the bible is true

Who benefits from the claim that lot died after fucking the shit out of his daughters?

>>81846137

Hope you realize by supporting the idea of religion (belief in God) you support Islam.

>>81846137
what did those posters say before they were shopped to "freedom can go to hell?"

>>81846954
I don't understand what you're asking. If the Bible isn't meant to be taken at face value, then how are we supposed to pick and choose the aspects that are true from those that aren't meant to be treated with literalism?

In order for there to be divine infallibility you have to be in for a penny and a pound, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KQ7bmbN8H8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI_Ogcsg3RA


A reminder that atheists claim the man on top is an enlightened gentleman while the guy on the bottom is evil and insane.

>>81845143

I fell its necessary for some people. I don't care for it myself but some people would be worse off without it.

>>81847071
why are you acting like I'm claiming the bible is true?

>>81847071
>how are we supposed to pick and choose the aspects that are true from those that aren't meant to be treated with literalism?
In Catholicism, by a lengthy process of academic theological studies and debates. But 99% of the people that engage in debates about religion are protestant plebs anyway, and Protestantism is the stupidest premise I have ever heard in my life and each tiny sect has its own retarded and completely different interpretations.

"37. In matters that are obscure and far beyond our vision, even in such as we may find treated in Holy Scripture [he is speaking of Genesis here], different Interpretations are sometimes possible without prejudice to the faith we have received. In such a case, we should not rush in headlong and so firmly take our stand on one side that, if further progress in the search of truth justly undermines this position, we too fall with it. That would be to battle not for the teaching of Holy Scripture but for our own, wishing its teaching to conform to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to conform to that of Sacred Scripture"
-Saint Augustine

YEC blown the fuck out in the fourth century.

>>81847147
>protestants are dumb
>giving 10% of your earnings to the church, telling all your darkest secrets to strangers, and drinking a bit of cheap wine and eating some bread at least once a week to suppress the taint of original sin is smart

...

>>81846854
No, it's just that Bill Nye does not have a monopoly on """"useful information"""". I'd rather not listen to a clown when there are other sources available.

>>81845780
The projection is too hard here

I admit to not watching the whole thing. From what I do know of the debate I feel like Ken Ham was a better debater, but was still unable to to win the debate because of how incorrect his position was. Realistically, no amount of debate preparation will allow you to defend claims as wrong as Ken Ham's.

>>81847228
Catholicism has plenty of problems as well but at least it sports a proper centralized authority, a well-structured hierarchy and serious theological debate. Protestantism is just disgusting, any filthy plebeian can just go grab a copy of the bible and start his own hackish cult with his own twisted rules, there is no order and no legitimacy to it.

>>81847323
There's a reason Apologetics are a thing.

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>>81847147
Most Catholics are going to be burning in hell and don't even pretend to follow the Bible or believe on the Lord Christ.

Matthew 15:9
>But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

1 Timothy 2:5
>For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Luke 13:28
>There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

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>>81847104
>>81847104
>religion is necessary for the weak minded

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>>81847435
Stand back, kid. Leave this theist scum to me.

>>81846976
Nice case of islamophobia you got there pal

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Ken Hamm does a lot more to hurt Christianity than help it. I wish he would use his vigor in a more productive way.

>>81847693
Standing on the word of God and holding your ground even when society mocks you is a hell of a lot more powerful than endlessly backpedalling at the slightest resistance from atheists or leftists to appear "reasonable".

>>81847778
It's written as an allegory. THE FORMATING DOESN'T EVEN LEND ITSELF TO A LITERAL INTERPRETATION!

>>81847778
Really I agree. Your position is weak, so you have to be aggressive and work with what you have. It's like selling a shit product. You don't back off, you force the issue until you've sold something or they tell you to fuck off

>>81847693
>Christianity is the only belief system that believes lying is immoral. No other group came up with that independently.

I'm a Christian and boy are my jimmies rustled.

>>81847910
Biblical morality influences you regardless of your belief. It's ingrained into your very being by God who created you.

the republican debates when jeb! was still running were better and will be better than anything else. pure entertainment

>>81847955
>Even if you find something self-evident, it's still biblical because God created you

And you don't see any sort of issue with this kind of circular logic?

This sort of bullshit is what drives people from the church btw.

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>>81847826
There is not a single Gnostic/"allegorical" interpretation of 1st Corinthians chapter 15 that makes sense. If it's all just a glorified self help book, if it all doesn't really matter, then why the fuck are you even bothering to begin with?

1 Corinthians 15:29-33
>Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Nope, fuck you. God walked among us in the flesh. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

>>81846829
u r so dum

>>81848096
Why are your bringing up Corinthians?

>>81848165
*you

>>81848096
What are you on about? Genesis =/= a letter written by a verified historical person.

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>>81847879
Yeah the atheist worldview is really so much more logical.

>>81848044
Morality proves God and the teaching of Jesus Christ directly correspond with human morality, unlike other religions.

>>81848232
That's the spirit! Push your crap until everyone's sick of it!
On a related note, fuck off I'm not interested

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>>81848302
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

>>81845143


>tfw atheists will always be a minority in the world because they're all virgins who don't reproduce like superior religious patricians

>>81848282
What? There are plenty of good moral people who wouldn't be considered so by the Bible because they had sex out of wedlock or got a divorce.

>>81848232
and yet I bet you can't give a good reason why the universe needs a creator, but God doesn't.

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>>81848373
lol atheshits BTFO

>>81848389
No one can live a perfectly moral life. We all have the inclination and can tell right from wrong. That doesn't mean we follow those rules all the time. Even the most devout Christians have committed horrible sins in their life; this is why we need God's mercy.

>>81848426
hmmm I wonder what could create a god and what could create that god and so on

really gets the think tank running

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>mfw i dont believe in shit because the universe is so strange and absurd and has so many things in it that lack explanation that there's no point in trying to comprehend what's all this is about

it's quite a liberating feel

I still don't get why people think science is anti-religion. At worst it says we have no current evidence for this not "it's wrong/impossible". Fedoras are retarded.

>>81848680
Science does contradict many religious claims, if not the idea of religion itself.

>>81848495
You're missing the point. You've just said that basic human morality aligns perfectly with Christian teachings proving Christianity true. That's simply false. Plenty of things as already mentioned immoral to Christians are not immoral to basic humanity. You're simply reassigning those to basic humanity retroactively to force your argument. Humans don't intuitively know deep down that sex outside of marriage is wrong. It has to be taught by norms and religion.

>>81846270
How can children be sinless? wat

everyone is born into sin because of Adam and Eve. God also said he searched humanity for a single truly righteous person who did what was right and found NO ONE because perfect sinless people don't exist

god says he knows children from the womb so naturally some kids in Egypt could have been spared but some maybe most went to hell

>>81848426
>a literally omnipotent being can't be created from nothing or already be existing without the need to be created
Damn...really gets your noggin' joggin'...

>>81848942
Except sex outside of a formal bond (marriage) brings emptiness and regret.

>>81848942
>Humans don't intuitively know deep down that sex outside of marriage is wrong.
yeah they do because you bring with you into your marriage all your past partners and sexual experience good or bad, its all baggage

>>81848680
>>81848879
There's also the fundamentally opposite mindsets, with religion being based on faith without proof, and science being based on doubt and evidence.

>>81848993
Bingo.

>>81848999
Except universe isn't an omnipotent being, and it isn't a being at all, you dumb retard, unless you're a pantheist which is a retarded view because it's mental gymnastic.

>>81847333
>the biggest and oldest filthy plebeian hackish cult with twisted rules is older and larger therefore more valid than any other

... and yea, theological debate is allowed as long as subjects like "nothing in the bible indicates structured hierarchy is necessary or even condoned" are never brushed against.

>>81848942
Why do you think non christian men and women get angry and jealous when their partner has had sex with someone else? Answer me that.

>I haven't read Hume or Euthyphro - the thread
Actually, make that
>I haven't read any philosophy - the thread
>I get all my knowledge from 4chan posts, religion memes and facebook pages - the thread

>>81848992
this might be true but sex inside marriage could also bring emptiness and regret. There's also the theory which suggests the more sex you have with the same person the less satsfyied you are

>>81845116
>What would make you change your opinion?
>Evidence. Just give me any definitive proof whatsoever.
>LOL NOTHING BLIND FAITH TIL I DIE
Ken Ham is a git.

>>81845143
*BRAP* MORTY MORTY LISTEN.. LISTEN *brap* Morty, there is something I need to tell you Morty, Morty are you *brap* listening Morty?
God's not real PICKLE RIIICCCKK

>>81848282
this was all the justification I needed to start my sex slave export business.

>>81849095
Sex is a bonding process. Outside of marriage, you are regretting the act of sex. Inside of marriage, you aren't regretting the sex act, you're regretting the marriage. I'd also like to point out that these people went about marriage the wrong way. A Christian pairing, with honesty and respect, won't lead to an unhappy marriage. Unless contempt, or lust for another person intervenes; which is something that scripture helps us with as well.

>>81845116
Creationism has been disproven on all fronts. Being a creationist means you're being willfully ignorant. Just say it's your faith instead of pretending its science, it's not.

>>81849167
>you aren't regretting the sex act, you're regretting the marriage.
you don't know that though so relax

women want men who can take control and know what they're doing. Its biological has nothing to do with the symbol of marriage.

>>81849081
high school

>>81849165
Except you know that you are doing the wrong thing. Like I said, we all know right or wrong. We just choose to ignore the right thing and act on the wrong thing. It's why we have the voice in our head that tells us we shouldn't have stole from that person, hurt that kids feelings, lied to our spouse, etc.

>>81849227
>you know that you are doing the wrong thing

I've done nothing the not advocated by the bible. And the bible syncs up perfectly with human morality.

>>81849167
that sounds like some shit a priest would say

>listening to a virgin about relationships

>>81849227
I regret not punching some people in the face. Are you going to blame that on the devil?

Everybody with at least half a brain would realise , if they thought about life and the univers searching for meaning, that atheism is fundamentaly wrong. The main reason is that you can't derive moral without a god ,you have no reason to care for others or help them if it doesn't benefit you , you'd be like an animal.For example: if you really hate a man nothing stops you from killing him if you don't get coutch , because without an afterlife where you get judged for your sins and a god good and bad do not exist , they are invented by the human mind. As kant put it: in order to have a good life and live happy we must asume two postulates: 1.the inmortality of the soul and 2. The existence of god. Without a god life has no meaning
Sorry for my bad english , i'm not a native speaker.

>>81849081
Nobody except autists get upset if their spouse had a sex partner 10 years before they met.

>>81849167
>Sex is a bonding process
So is living near someone, hugging, discussion, etc, all of which we openly do with people not married to us.

>/pol/ claims to be morally righteous Christians
>Ignore the parts of Christ's teaching that fly in the face of their over racism and antisemitism/islamophobia

Never gets old. Never. It'll be hilarious to me until the day I die.

>>81849286
I regret not eating a huge piece of cake. If I had eaten the cake, I would have regretted the gluttony of the act.

>>81849311
Religion does nothing to stop crime and any jail will have a lower % of atheists that the same country as a whole. Authority, self-defence and punishment stops crime. Also there is no inherent reason why a moral system is more or less valid just because some alien who claims to have created you (with no evidence to back it up) said so as opposed to another random human saying so.

>>81849362
Overt*

>>81849362
it gets old once you realize everyone just picks and chooses what is most convenient to them at any given time as the basis of their morality

everyone.

>>81849311
Well said, I'd just like to make your post more precise by adding that Kant was an agnostic, but he did think that the topics like existence of God couldn't be know (as they are part of the noumenal world, the thing-in-itself), but that in those cases, it was better for the individual, and the society as a whole, to suppose a God exists.

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>>81846783
>naturally

>>81849398
eh, "over" worked too. As /pol/ takes racism to whole new heights.

Kinda like how autistic children will become obsessed with certain things and take them way beyond any reasonable or productive level.

>Was this the greatest debate kino of our era?

No. This is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohd5uqzlwsU

>>81845584
>Whaaa! Why do you want reason and logic to rule us, when there's JESUS™

>>81849175
It's not about their faith. It's about power. They see science as the big evil that takes away their power and influence in society.

>>81849444
If god is omniscient, then every act of humanity is locked into the mind of god. Free will doesn't exist and all acts are a direct result of god. There can be no evil or sin as god has already seen and forgiven all acts that can ever and will ever be performed by the whole of existence, as they were a direct result of god setting all of this in motion.

So the only levels on which it is better to suppose god exists are those which lack sufficient mental capacity to realize literally all acts are pre-forgiven, else why call it God?

>>81849624
>It's about power.

Sure, at the highest levels, but that doesn't really apply to the faithful. They have no reason to want power and influence for people who rule them. So what's their takeaway?

>>81849390
That's because very few people are following their religion as they should . The human nature has that "animal part/instinct" in it , some call it the devil others diffrent. Also please read some theology/philosophy , divinity is such a complex concept it can't just be reduced to "the magic alien/man in the sky".

>>81849631
All Calvanist sects like Presbyterian already believe free will is false and they seem to be fine still believing.

Bill Nye has a bachelors degree? The guy is a fucking actor playing a scientist who somehow deluded himself enough to let his character spill out into his real life.

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>>81845143
>he doesnt know religion is what held europeans together for centuries, and now that its going away is starting to drown in mudshits that still play by the rules of their religion

>>81849706
so
>lack[ing] sufficient mental capacity to realize literally all acts are pre-forgiven, else why call it God?

>>81845224
People who care about truth are willing to listen to both sides of an argument as until you have concrete evidence in either direction both theories remain plausible. This is the fucking definition of scientific method.

Anyone who closes off possibilities because of prejudices is just as ignorant as the Bible thumper claiming there way is the only way.

>>81849745
islams simply a kneejerk reaction to the fact scary sky gods aren't necessary to keep people in line.

>>81845584

Not believing in god doesn't make someone a leftist.

Saying the earth is 6000 year old is factually incorrect. Believing the christian god of the bible is a real thing is also ignorant. Forcing children to believe in the god of the bible because that's what you specifically believe because your parents and environment raised you that way is also immoral.

Religion has no place in public institutes of knowledge. Neither do identity politics or any political bias for that matter.

I don't like the very left leaning spin public schools give on a lot of subjects, but that doesn't make the science classes any less truthful.

>>81845785
>reached the pinnacle of evolution

Wanna know how I know you don't understand evolution?

>>81849781
>anyone who doesn't seriously consider the veracity of a 1300 year old book that hasn't even been read by 99.9% of people who claim to believe in it is closed minded

...

>>81849695
>That's because very few people are following their religion as they should
Therefore we can conclude that it is inefficient for your purpose of restraining mankind.

>divinity is such a complex concept it can't just be reduced to "the magic alien/man in the sky".
It literally is nothing but an alien who claims to be your creator and that his rules are the only legit ones, gives no evidence and demands faith.

If a spaceship landed right in front of you and little green men came out of it, demonstrated technology so far advanced that it could look like magic, and then said "abortion are pirating video games are OK, but smoking weed and masturbating are not OK", would you accept it?

>>81849745
>implying Europeans, as a whole, were ever "held together"

>>81849781
>This is the fucking definition of scientific method.

That actually isn't the definition of the scientific method. You're just declaring that to try and bolster your argument. The problem of induction plus a hazy understanding and application of methodological approaches actually casts serious, plausible doubts a lot of "concrete evidence" that many fields of modern science are based off of.

>>81849755
But they don't lack it. They openly acknowledge it. They have books and books written detailing their theology. Why not look them up if you're legitimately looking for an answer to that question.

>>81849815
>Forcing children to believe in the god of the bible because that's what you specifically believe because your parents and environment raised you that way is also immoral.

By what standard?

>>81849850
>abortion are pirating video games are OK!

... that seems like an awfully specific claim that's very difficult to follow. But I will do everything I can to make sure abortions pirate video games, so as to validate God's claim.

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>>81845143

you sound like you need to sort yourself out

>>81849463
Are you denying scientific consensus that the earth's climate naturally changes over time and has done for millenia?

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>>81849745
Unfortunately you really do need religion to instill morality and ethics into the majority. Just because a small percentile of the population is capable of making ethical choices without the threat of damnation does not mean the rest of the mongoloids have evolved past juggle dragging barely sentient apes.

Religion is a necessary evil to control the masses that are not ready to control themselves, but now it's too late.

>>81849882
They were divided between themselves but when all of them were in danger, they would stick together, and religion was that bond

it was either christianity or islam

>>81849781
False dillema. There isn't a 2 sides of an argument here, but it's thousands upon thousands of arguments against each other. The only argument that can be proven is the scientific one.

The fact that this debate is even happening is proof that people will go to extremes to defend their make belief bullshit.

>>81849925
>when all of them were in danger, they would stick together, and religion was that bond
Yes we can clearly see how religion held them together in wonderful cases such as the 30 year war or the 4th crusade.

>>81849887
adding "God" to "just be a decent fucking person" is unnecessary complication and simply smacks using "God" as an authority figure for people who can't really understand what the concept of "God" entails.

>>81849913
Because you're forcing them to adapt arbitrary rules that have been written down by desert cultists thousands of years ago because otherwise you're going to be tortured for eternity, god loves you that much.

>>81849920
>the majority of people are stupid therefore we need to tell them stupid things

you do fucking not and that simply reinforces people's stupidity.

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>>81849950
Atheists always have such wonderful hills to die on.

>Life is meaningless we should live however we think is best
>Well then we should follow Christiani...
>NO WE CAN'T DO THAT FEDORA FEDORA M'LADY BANANA ATHEISM M'LADY

>>81849967
>Because you're forcing them to adapt arbitrary rules that have been written down by desert cultists thousands of years ago because otherwise you're going to be tortured for eternity, god loves you that much.

That didn't answer my question. Again, by what standard do you judge that? And why should I, objectively, have the same standard?

>>81849956
Again. I am not those people you're accusing of doing this, but I very seriously doubt that is what they're doing. You're essentially strawmaning them in order to more easily tear them down. Unless you have a firm grasp of their views, you can't do what you're trying to do. You'll just be beating a group of people who don't actually exist.

>>81849850
I'd recommed you to read some books by Mircea Eliade , literally anything .it will broaden your horizons.

>>81850006
>point out clear historical evidence of christians slaughtering each other for power and money
>FEDORA FEDORA HURR
Great job pal at last I am truly enlightened by christianity I think I'll go out on a crusade and ransack a bulwark of christian resistance against Islam on the way for the lulz.

>>81849927
>The only argument that can be proven is the scientific one
Tell me how evolution and the big bang still rules out creationism.

>>81850074
>here go read some books
No fuck off faggot I've already read the bible and that in itself should be enough, either use proper arguments or get lost.

>>81848432
I hate this cunt so much. Any time she is on TV I want to shoot myself in the head

>>81850063
The point, I'm making, that you're seeming to miss, is trying to combine free will and an omniscient god is doublethink, concepts that contradict one another on a fundamental level, held in the mind simultaneously until the contradiction is no longer recognizable.

You've admitted you don't know what they're talking about, I do, so just fucking stop.

>>81850099
I never said that creationism is true , the bible is prezenting an abstractization of the truth , the ideas are presented as naive stories so that they could be understood even by the poor and the stupid.That's where the genius of this book comes from, it isn't meant to be taken literally.

>>81850240
>prezenting an abstractization

doubleplus good, comrade

>>81845116
Nye is a retard for even agreeing to this debate. Christcucks just see this as validating their uninformed, assbackwards beliefs as worth debating.

Evolution is an objective fact, and the Theory of Evolution is as universally accepted in biology as the Theory of Gravitation is in physics.

>>81850238
>Sims don't have free will
>This means nobody can be playing the sims

Either you're very poor at expressing this logical proof, or it's just not very good.

>>81847038
Thats not a shop anon...

>>81849925
>but when all of them were in danger, they would stick together, and religion was that bond
Except, you know, the two world wars.

>>81850288
Go google "not even wrong."

>>81850285
It highlighted that christfags cannot be convinced of anything even with plentiful evidence. Science is malleable if you have the data but faith apparently won't budge an inch for anything, ever.

>>81845116
Nye is a terrible debator. Ham isn't much better but Nye looked like an idiot and I agree with him.

>>81847076
Theyre both idiots

>it's surprising how much truth Ken Ham brought forward
shit bait thread, OP is a massive fag.

>>81850321
>these events after protenstatism where religion started to fail cause major shitstorms
wow dude

>>81850343
This just makes it even better though. Nye looks like the ass that he is and the creationist nut spouts his insane views, in the end we all walk away a little bit dumber.

>>81850288
If your concept of "God" is an entity playing a cosmic version of a video game he didn't make and only understands just barely well enough to interact with the UI, why do you think of that entity as "God?"

>>81850389
Catholics and Orthodox Christians were killing each other en masse in the past.

>>81850043
By the standard that it's made up bullshit.

>>81850432
Why do you think I'm the one believing this? I'm simply showing you a counter example.

>>81850683
No, you made a statement that is "not even wrong." A statement that either betrays a profound lack of understanding of every subject at hand or was made intentionally to befuddle opposition into silence.

>>81845143
>Meanwhile in another thread
>"We MUST make room for our Muslim brothers."
Fuck off atheist proxy kike

>bowtie
lmao jesus fuck, what a faggot.

>>81850006
>mentions the few the books the monk saved that adhered to Church dogma
>conveniently ignores the hundred times as many books that were either burned or weren't even written in the first place because they would just be burned and the author forced to recent and/or executed

Really getting tired of this meme picture, especially since by virtue of being on 4chan you don't even go to church. The Church suppressed a remarkable number of fields, such as physics, biology and anatomy.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Enlightenment started to take off at about the same time as the Reformation? Curious how most of the greatest minds of modern history occurred right when the Church's stranglehold on Europe was slipping for the first time, hmmm?

Someone explain how "don't commit adultery" became "don't have sex before marriage"

>>81851130
it doens't matter when you cheat on your husband its still adultery

>>81851130
It's actually "don't have sex at all but if you must only fuck for reproductive purposes".

>>81851165
>Follow this oath to God before you even made it
That's not in the Bible, anon.

Bill Nye was destroyed in this debate, the flaky answers of "science" from so-called "intellectuals" were hit pretty hard by Ken Ham, so much so I think many people will change their minds to the Truth as He intended. As a creationist, our cause has been furthered magnificently and we are now stronger than ever, as God told us why we were created, and we were created by God. Perhaps these idiotic pseudo-scientists that plague this board and Reddit will now shut up as they haven't a leg to stand on.

>>81850006
>Heh heh, good thing I managed to save all these books about Catholicism
>thousands upon thousands of words regarding humanities most pressing issues
>like...
>like if the Holy sacrament ACTUALLY transforms into the blood of Christ or if it only metaphorically does it
>or if the Holy Trinity is one divine being with three aspects, or three divine beings that manifest themselves as one? Got a couple thousand pages about that one alone


>wait a sec
>what the-
>is that-
>Oh Lord give me strength, is that-
>A FUCKING BOOK ON ANATOMY?
>WHAT SATANSPAWN COULD POSSIBLY QUESTION THE DIVINE LOGIC OF HUMORS BEING ALIGNED WITH THE STARS
>BLASPHEMY
>HERESY
>DEMON MAGIC
>BURN IT ALL
>BURN
>BURN IT IN HELLFIRE

I'm going to make a long story short and tell you that he burns most of the Greek and Roman plays because they were lewd, smashes the Greek and Roman works of art because they depicted the human form too sinfully, and tore down the ruins of ancient European buildings because the they predated Christianity and therefore the carvings depicted false Gods.

Then he takes out his favorite book other than the Bible, and reads aloud it to the oppressed peasants. Very basic and well-established Church doctine like:
God WANTS them to be poor and suffer because their real reward is in heaven so it's ok.
And that committing a litany of sins is fine as long as you pay for it is A-OK!
And if anyone questions this they're a heretic and should be executed
Praise God!

>>81851400
rational answers are always "flakey" because rationality never operates in a faux state of unfalsifiablity, and, in fact, regards any statement that is unfalsifiable as fundamentally flawed.

>>81845116
The Lawrence krauss vs william lane craig was better.

Krauss didn't even bother address any of craig's points. He just used his time to lecture physics.

>>81851483
Which is a long winded way of saying
Creationists 1 - 0 Science bitches

>>81851527
That's because William Lane Craig is an actual apologist.

>>81851567
or that thinking of "the answers to the life, universe, and everything" as a football game with winners and losers is lazy and stupid.

>>81851600
t. losing team

Come on the right side of history, and God himself will let you enter Heaven.

>>81851638
prove it

you can't

>>81851638
Or more realistically he will eat you since he is an alien who preys on humans.

>>81851660
Disprove it
You can't

>>81851692
Can't disprove something without a presence. Can't prove a negative.

>>81846783
defeatist pussy

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>>81851671
Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows God is actually Darkseid

>>81851671
if heaven is god's stomach then whats the difference?

>>81851763
Slow and painful digestion.

>>81847693
test

>>81851792
>heaven
>slow and painful

I think you're missing something fundamental to this particular line of reasoning.

>>81851742
i wish jack chick drew porn

>>81845116
No.

Bill is a shit debater, even if his heart is in the right place, if you want debate kino look up Matt dillahunty, there was one debate where a central premise of his opponent was that you can't make predictions based on data/experience and at the end of the debate matt pulled out a pre written statement that dealt with every point his opponent brought up for the closing argument

>>81851708
lmao, nice fallacy. The Lord exists because it is written in the Bible, His book. Check and mate.

>>81851583
He's an actual faggot.

>>81851866
prove the veracity of the bible

>>81851882
disprove it?

I'll wait...

>>81845906
remember that belief in god is not genetic.

The number of atheist has increased a lot in the past decade, but it's not because atheists have been breeding.

>>81851868
Post proof. I've never heard this. I'll drop him so fast it'll make your head spin. Unless it was just a stupid joke.

>>81851899
every falsifiable claim contained therein has been falsified.

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Christian countries= high birth rate
Atheist countries= low birth rate

What do you want for the White race?

>>81851928
Exactly, you can't and so you turn to the circular fallacy. Looks like He triumphs again, God bless you though; may you enjoy your night.

>>81851937
Mooselimb countries = even higher birth rate. Time to convert?

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>>81848373

>tfw Atheism prospers in places where education is most accessible and highest in quality.

I feel truly euphoric in this moment anon.

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>>81851937
to be drove to extinction

fuck your spaghetti monsters

>>81851990
I get that you're screwing around but there are people dumb enough to think you're right.

>>81845116
just for all the brainlets in here:

believing in the christian god -> that god gave out some moral laws -> having moral

is EQUAL to

beliving in an arbitrary moral code -> having moral

>>81852127
No it doesn't work like that, if we were to follow Aquinas' Laws, then it's not that we're given a morality; it's that he has set out a morality in the Bible and whatnot and we have to learn it.

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>>81846019
Because it's been a non issue for a while.

>>81852493
what's the difference between learning morality from others and learning morality from god?

how do you not see aquinas as basically saying morality is relative? as people won't teach morality they don't agree with.

>>81845116
>literally 2 old men jerking off at each other in front of a camera
Idk OP, is that kino for you?

>>81850748
Explain how. Your argument is "if God knows everything then free will cannot exist and God cannot exist". You're presenting it as if the first part is the logical buildup to the second conclusion. It is not.

>>81852493
>it's that he has set out a morality in the Bible and whatnot and we have to learn it.
so what if i "believe" in the content of the 10 commandment. whats different to believing that set of moral beliefs is true to believing god is real and his book is absolutelky true therefore the 10 commandments are true?

>>81852664
>omniscience
>knowing everything
>including everything that has ever happened and ever will happen

>free will
>the ability to make your own decisions

I fail to see how these concepts aren't contradictory.

>>81845116

Bill got btfo but only because he's not a professional debater and people are won over by 1337 debate tricks and not just repeating facts.

>>81846270
Wow.

>>81852743
Think about it as time travelling to the future, then travelling back and not telling people what you saw them doing.
Jk. I have a problem with this concept as well, it makes no sense to me either and I've met a lot of Christians, they either say it's a matter of blind faith or that "it doesn't matter, okay? I believe anyway".

>>81852743
The easiest way to resolve the contradiction is that God is not all knowing and is bullshitting rubes into believing he's all powerful

>>81852743
That's the first part, not the second, faggot.

>>81852823
and then we drop right back to epicurus, why call him god?

>>81852743
You could answer it by saying that God lives outside the laws of physics, or that he can operate at a higher level, or that he's not bound by the laws of our 4 dimensions, etc. Like he makes his own rules because he can do whatever he wants, so he can make contradictions not contradict themselves if he wants to.

>>81852743
Again. Calvanists believe they have no free will and people who are saved for heaven are predetermined. This is not something that Christian sects haven't already thought of.

>>81852848
The first part of what? If God set all this in motion, and God is omniscient, the God knows all that will happen, and thus all actions by any entity he created is the fault of God.

>>81852880
This. Existing outside of time makes you immune to causality.

>>81852919
The part that says therefore God does not exist. That's the non sequitur conclusion. God may just be running a simulation and watching the results unfold. I know the plot of star wars but I watch it anyway.

>>81852860
Because he'll kick your ass if you don't.
Though there's no evidence of a heaven or hell, so that could be a lie to scare rubes too. And there's no evidence that the creator of the universe and the thing that inspired the bible being the same
What I'm trying to get at here is that even if you do find some logical proof an all powerful being created the universe, you're still about ten leaps of logic away from christianity being real

>>81852889
That would mean God consciously damnned people to hell and gave them no ability to change their fate, and the acts of the damnedb that affected others was directly the fault of God as well. Dropping us back to epicurus again, then god is malevolent.

>>81852889
Calvinist here.

>>81852984
So God will kick your ass for not calling him God even though he is the reason you're not calling him God.

>>81852974
>ctrl+F: therefore God does not exist
>1 of 1 match

...

>>81852992
So? God being an asshole doesn't negate the existence of God.

>>81853071
We're getting into the nitty-gritty of "why follow a damned thing he says" though. If god exists and is a malevolent asshole, then he is irrelevant to human existence, thus, functionally, doesn't exist.

>>81853032
I don't believe God can kick my ass because I have no reason to believe in divine intervention or any way to punish a corpse.
Plus how true a statement is doesn't have any bearing on if you're punished for it. If you say the mods are fags then you can get banned for it, even if they are fags. Same principle

>>81845116
Who knew that the laws of physics can slowly change over a long period of time?

Makes me wonder why they would then say that adaptation in animals doesnt work over a long period of time.

>>81850077
-tips fedora- how do you do, edgemiester!

>>81853156
You're comparing non-omniscient entities to omniscient entities.

The mods aren't directly responsible for you calling them fags.

>>81853126
For the nth time, I'm simply playing devil's advocate against the atheists itt saying God doesn't exist because X.

I consider myself a Christian because I follow the teachings of Christ. To be quite honest heaven/hell and his divinity are entirely irrelevant.

>>81853267
... so?

>>81853316
What do you mean so? You asked why worship him. I explained that I don't have an answer to that because I don't care either way.

>>81853372
Or I'm speaking in an abstract universal sense and you or your beliefs are completely irrelevant?

>>81853126
Idk, I'd rather live in eternal paradise as a worshipper of some asshole than to live in eternal pain out of principle.

>>81853126
Idk, I'd rather live in eternal paradise as a worshipper of some asshole than to live in eternal pain out of principle. I'm not saying people should all worship him of course, but saying he's functionally irrelevant denies the afterlife part.

Man, that bowtie joke fell flat.

>>81853397
>Or I'm speaking in an abstract universal sense
On the television board of a Chinese Cartoon board?

Why?

>>81853412
>>81853451
>pascal's wager

play-acting belief or believing because you fear hell just means hell.

>>81853480
Typing practice, more than anything.

>>81853720
There are websites for that.

>>81853680
> I'm not saying people should all worship him of course, but saying he's functionally irrelevant denies the afterlife part.

>>81853789
rote repetition isn't really useful to practicing how to type as I think.

>>81853818
again breh, just countering pascal's wager in general. Don't really have any means to give a shit about you or your beliefs on 4chan.

>>81849745
Did you ever read Jung? Jung espoused the same thing, that christianity is something that bonded people together regardless of caste or national identity. But the west is now looking towards the east for inspiration now depleting its own religious foundation.
And to this it brings about its own danger, because Jung warned about the fanaticism inherent in religions such as Islam. There was also the fascination with chinese mysticism during the 60s.

>>81849920
The communistic states encourage the worship of the nation, just like in the old USSR, and North Korea.

>>81854412
jung also believed in guardian angels

or was that the other negro

>>81845116
>To be honest I'm surprised how strongly Ken Ham came through in this
Midwestern homeschooled fag detected

>>81854412
Liber Primus is my bible senpai

>>81850111
>watching CNN
Yeah, maybe you should shoot yourself.

>>81853879
It has nothing to do with my beliefs you illiterate fuck.

>>81851741
Not an argument.

>>81854756
Yes, that was my point.

How do I into arguments and have vast knowledge like you folks ITT? For what It's worth I enjoyed reading the back and forth