Why did this scene confuse so many audiences and critics? I understood

>>81522673
Because it has no real relevance to the rest of the film, just the sequel.

>>81522739
It's a manifestation of Batman's distrust of Superman as reflected in his subconscious

also Spider-man had no point or relevance in Civil War, just the sequel, and everybody seemed to love that so I don't think that's it.

when youre used to seeing by the numbers shlopp drop from marlel, you lose the ability to appreciate avant garde kino

>>81522673
>I understood it pretty well.
A U T I S M
U
T
I
S
M

Holy shit my theater got visibly angry at this scene because they didn't understand what's going on.

DC really shouldn't have overestimated the intelligence of audiences (and critics) who have been braindrained by Marvel

>>81522673

whats the big symbol on the ground supposed to mean? what are the big fire things coming out of the ground? why was batman shooting guns and killing people?

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>people think it was a "dream" and don't realize he was literally seeing into the actual future stemming from the current direction of events, thanks to the Flash

I've only even seen the fucking movie once and I understood it, why is this hard?

>>81522854
what's autistic? It's a sequence that shows Darkseid-ruled earth and a rogue superman. It's left ambiguous if it was just a dream or a vision of the future

>>81522893

also why would superman become evil? thought he was a good guy?

>>81522893
what part of KNIGHTMARE don't you understand?

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>>81522888
>whats the big symbol on the ground supposed to mean?

It's the symbol of Darkseid (pic related)

>what are the big fire things coming out of the ground?
Fire pits, that are seen on every world Darkseid conquers

>why was batman shooting guns and killing people?

The original version of Batman used guns and killed people. With the comic code authority, they scaled the character back to make him more child-friendly. Snyder chose to use the older interpretation of the character

>>81522673
>Why did this scene confuse so many audiences and critics?

a gun-touting, murdering batman in a post-TDKR world will confuse anybody

>>81522774
jesus, you jumped to the "b-b-but MARVEL!!!!"argument pretty quick

that's the thing, as a manifestation of his distrust, it doesn't even work. It doesn't make sense. What are the bug things? Why is there a big omega sign? Why is everything fucked up and a spaceship thing looming over them? It makes no sense in the context of the rest of the film. It's just a really shitty shoehorn setup for the sequel.

Batman's distrust for superman had already been clearly established. There's no context for the stuff that happens in this scene and for flash showing up. The payoff won't happen into the next movie, so as far as this movie is concerned, it's a confusing scene that just "looks cool" but doesn't really fit.

For spiderman, there was a least some context: ironman needed back up. That's it. They don't try to make it anymore than that. He wasn't a setup for his movie. It wasn't like tony told him "you gotta go home kid, you have to get ready for Homecoming ™ - coming to theaters July 7, 2017"

>>81522935
Lois was killed by unknown means in this possible future timeline, causing Superman to become rogue as his last connection to humanity was severed

It's a common trope for evil versions of Superman, the Superman cartoon in the 90s did it too

>>81522774
Holy shit you DCucks can't go one post without bitching about Marvel. Just shows how insecure you are.

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>>81522958
How is it confusing? Batman has used guns and killed people before in the comics.

>>81522673

I didnt really get it. like.... why it happened or how, or wtf was going on, but I thought it was pretty cool. I wish there was more of this. More batman seeing a wasteland and superman as a leader, less lex luthor making them fight. Batmans fears, even if they manifest through magic/science as motivator and not lex luthor as a manipulator works much better. They could have used scarecrow, he got away at the end of TDKR, so that's a loose end to tie up, but his fear gas on batman would have been good. I get they're using lex from Smallville which is cool for those people, but they used him too much I think.

>>81522971
>What are the bug things?
Parademons, minions of darkseid

>Why is there a big omega sign?
symbol of darkseid

>Why is everything fucked up and a spaceship thing looming over them?

because obviously darkseid invaded earth

I mean, I saw this movie once and understood it fine. You seem confused by things due to a lack of knowledge of comics.

Perhaps this film was too rich in DC universe lore for you to understand? I guess marvel does appeal to non-fans better by keeping things simpler...

>For spiderman, there was a least some context: ironman needed back up. That's it. They don't try to make it anymore than that. He wasn't a setup for his movie. It wasn't like tony told him "you gotta go home kid, you have to get ready for Homecoming ™

Lol, that's literally what it was. They shoved him in there at the last minute when Sony gave the rights to Disney. He was JUST in the film to hype up spider-man homecoming and played no relevant contribution to the plot. Hell he appears in the airport fight scene then immediately disappears after, never to be seen again. It was shoehorned and poorly shot.

>>81523002
>Mravle has to consistently fuck with their narrative to appeal to the largest audience aka lowest common denominator

>>81523038
Helpful hint most people don't give a fuck about the comics since they've never read them. BvS is the first time most will see batman using and condoning deadly force

>>81523109
>Helpful hint most people don't give a fuck about the comics since they've never read them. BvS is the first time most will see batman using and condoning deadly force

So the flaw with a gun-toting batman is not the character of batman, but because mainstream audiences don't understand the character?

Plus Batman killed people in the iconic 80s version.

Batman has killed people in every mainstream depiction he's in besides TAS, even the campy 60s version.

Don't give me that Batman Begins nonsense where he didn't technically kill Ra's. Beating up a guy and leaving him on a train you're running into a building is killing him.

>>81523151
>Plus Batman killed people in the iconic 80s version.

Again, most people don't give a fuck since they've never seen it. Seeing batman using/condoning lethal force is new to them.

Are you intentionally being thick to further discussion or is your stupidity legit?

>>81523103
breh, no need to even explain that shit to me. I have cursory knowledge of it and knew what was going on, but imagine the 90%+ of movie going audience that know nothing of batman beyond the previous movies. The movie needs to explain all those things to them within the movie, but they didn't. The sequel will.

>You seem confused by things due to a lack of knowledge of comics.
>Perhaps this film was too rich in DC universe lore for you to understand?
if you don't think this is a problem, you should stick to making threads in /co/. Movies shouldn't demand required reading for you to understand them.

> I guess marvel does appeal to non-fans better by keeping things simpler...
>B-B-BUT SPIDERMAN
jesus, how butthurt are DCucks that thy have to resort to flame wars? How do you even know that I like marvel? Try being less defensive and resorting to attacking marvel, it does nothing but emphasize how much of a butthurt DCuck you are.

>>81523103
>>81523255
and if you haven't even noticed yet, I'm not even shitting on the movie, just answering OPs simple question objectively.

>>81523204
>Batman has killed people in every mainstream depiction he's in besides TAS, even the campy 60s version.

Except he's not lauded for being a murderer in "kill or be killed" settings. BvS hamfists a death-incarnate batman

In this movie we see a harsher batman, disenfranchised with what we know as batmans 'traditional justice'
This is perhaps down to the Joker killing Robin or something (especially if you read into that script leak where bats confronts the Joker in the burning rumble of Wayne manor where he punches out his teeth and Joker says something about being him not being "beautiful or sonething)
Various characters obviously capitalise on this, especially Luthor in his manipulation of Bats into fighting Supes, and obviously the classic Batman distrust and paranoia.

The flash vision/whatever is essentially the full manifestation of this, a ruthless Bats fighting the new regime with guns blazing etc.

What i think is In the end Bats is inspired by Supes and his sacrifice and hopefully we'll see Batman return to what everyone knows and loves.
You kinda see elements of that in Suicide Squad.

The whole line between Bruce and Alfred about how many good guys stayed that way, how many turned bad?
That's totally Bruce talking about himself.

Still a overwhelmingly disappointing movie.

>>81522826
underrated

>>81523255
>ask questions
>"breh, no need to even explain that shit to me"

Holy shit

And I disagree that all movies should be saturated to the point that everyone can easily understand them

>>81522971
>>81523002

It's relevant that most of the "problems" of BvS were also present in Civil War and people didn't criticize them there.

>>81523423
>"underrated"ing your own post
pretty sad desu

>>81523220
>Again, most people don't give a fuck since they've never seen it

like you have any way of knowing this

>>81522673
there was no 3 movie build up for the marvel redditors

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>>81523443
the original was me not him, so there

>>81523424
>>ask questions
>>"breh, no need to even explain that shit to me"
>Holy shit
are you autistic? Can you not pick up on rhetorical questions? Can you not pick up context? These are actual questions I'm asking, but you don't have to answer them. It doesn't matter.

>And I disagree that all movies should be saturated to the point that everyone can easily understand them
they don't have to be easily understood, but a movie should 100% be self contained. Putting a setup for a punchline in the sequel is what gets everyone mad.

>>81522935
Honestly I just don't get hoe he could become more evil. What's the kill count before someone becomes evil?

>>81523442
like?

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>>81523475
>he is honestly challenging the idea most people don't read comics

>>81522957
Whose Darkseid? Was he in the superman movie?

>>81522774
>It's a manifestation of Batman's distrust of Superman as reflected in his subconscious

except it isn't

>>81523442
not really

Civil War suffered from huge plotholes, a villain scheme that made no sense, bad CGI, shoehorned characters for marketing purposes, too much quips that took you out of the moment, etc..

BvS lacked most of these problems save that Luthor was annoying and his plan didn't make much sense. Also the shoehorning, but their presence was so short I don't think it was that bad

Who's hyped?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ixd0Ygj1vQ

>>81523588
>I'm biased but I'm gonna act like I'm not
BvS was worse.

>>81523576
I'd say a majority of moviegoers have seen the 80s batman movie at one point or another, and Batman kills people there pretty maliciously.

>>81523220
sure batman killing people with blades, explosions, barehands and derailing trains, ok, sure.

Batman killing people with the weapon that killed his parents, was expressively shown he hates gun in canon material, hell even quit being batman in beyond because he had to resort to using one to merely threaten someone haunting him to the moment his parents die.

But hey let me strap a billion guns to everything cause i'm mature in a mature universe and not messup my characterization.

Sure thing kiddo.

>>81522774
Better directors could do this through the actual story itself without having to rely on a cut away.

>>81523581
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkseid

>>81522893
this, how the fuck can people think it was just a dream when Batman sees parademons in it and Superman talks about Batman taking "her" away from him when he knows nothing about Superman personal life.

>>81523644
that's the thing, snyder did ok of showing it without that scene. But that scene's purpose wasn't for that.

>>81522935
The Injustice storyline where Lois dies.

>>81523644
>Zack "Kubrick" Snyder
>better directors
>GeorgeCostanza.bmp

>>81523531
>are you autistic? Can you not pick up on rhetorical questions? Can you not pick up context? These are actual questions I'm asking, but you don't have to answer them. It doesn't matter.

Oh wow so now you're claiming you're not confused. It's just that mainstreamers were confused. Who cares? Why should a director be restricted by the knowledge of the masses?

>they don't have to be easily understood, but a movie should 100% be self contained. Putting a setup for a punchline in the sequel is what gets everyone mad.

absolute nonsense when talking about superhero movie. Literally every other superhero movie in history has done this. It's like criticizing the end of Batman Begins because of the Joker's calling card

>>81523663
this

>>81522774

>It's a manifestation of Batman's distrust of Superman as reflected in his subconscious

I'd like to have what you're having because on way shape or form did this scene depict that. You can make up you little theories and such, but it served added nothing to movie. He didn't get more angry after this scene. We knew Bruce's manifestation of anger from the Black Zero event. This was made for future films. It's why Flash was in it. The scene wasn't a dream.

>>81523644
I agree. In Marvel it'd have been Batman waking up in a dream to 90s music and he sees evil Superman throw someone through a roof. Batman responds "wow, remember to left swipe that guy".

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>>81523635
>I'd say a majority of moviegoers have seen the 80s batman movie at one point or another

>I'd say the majority of 18-35s have seen the 80s batman movie at one point or another

>>81523103
You just proved his point that no of that stuff had anything to do with the rest of the movie

>>81523002
>criticism of a film
>lel XDDD insecure dcuck XDDD
it's just fucking criticism

if anything this vision proves he was right in fearing Superman

>>81523788
>im 12 and wat is the DCEU

>Sympathetic characters praying Christian prayers
>Christian imagery
>Bashing glorious communist east germany

It's clear why critics hated it at least

>>81523703
>Oh wow so now you're claiming you're not confused.
I never claimed I was. I think I've been pretty clear that I understood the scene and I was just answering OP's question.

>Why should a director be restricted by the knowledge of the masses?
why should the masses need to know years worth of comic history to understand a shoehorned sequel setup?

> It's like criticizing the end of Batman Begins because of the Joker's calling card
that's a cute false equivalence. I like how you're comparing a few seconds at the end of a movie to a pretty long out of place sequence in the middle of a movie

>>81522673
A lot of people need everything spelled out for them to understand it, including people on this board, which is why this is even being debated in the first place.

>>81523804
it's a criticism in defense of DC. Defend DC without saying "B-B-BUT MARVEL!!!!"

>>81523668
Your absolutely right, Snyder did just ok with this movie

>>81523877
>I never claimed I was. I think I've been pretty clear that I understood the scene and I was just answering OP's question.

>why should the masses need to know years worth of comic history to understand a shoehorned sequel setup?
So you're okay with the idea that every movie has to be 100% understandable for everybody, and no movie can reference another even if it's part of a franchise?

>that's a cute false equivalence. I like how you're comparing a few seconds at the end of a movie to a pretty long out of place sequence in the middle of a movie

Oh, so it IS okay for a movie not to be self-contained as long as it meets some magical limit of how many minutes it can be. Way to move that goalpost

Have you ever imposed this rule on any other movie?

To be honest I can see why it could be misleading to someone with no previous knowledge

>>81523766

OK, what do you think the numbers are and what is your proof to back it up?

>>81523659
Was this part of the WW email?

I must have missed that...

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>>81523967
>no issues using anecdotal evidence until shown he's an idiot

>p-p-put up or shut up

>>81523943
holy shit you cannot be serious...You seriously have some reading comprehension problems.

I never said a movie needs to be 100% understandable. Every scene within the movie should serve the movie, not the sequel. Even you stupid little joker example serves the movie. It sets up that batman isn't done, that he's just started his career as batman, it doesn't even necessarily set up the sequel. If TDK never came out, no one would go "but what about that joker card!?" If the JL movie doesn't come out, the parademons, the omega sign, the dystopia, flash showing up, all that shit makes zero sense in the context of the movie. The only people who know what's going on would be people who know the comics. So to answer OP's question again, people are confused by it because it has no relevance to the rest of the movie.

>>81522774
Spider-Man directly fit in Tony's adjacent character arc about funding the future, putting his stock in people instead of his own self, kicked off by his donation to MiT students in the beginning of the film. He was his own character with his own motivations that still managed to serve the narrative.

For some reason we needed a alt-universe dream sequence followed immediately by a prophetic warning from another future's character from a future movie just to sell the same idea. Then the movie still added about two other commercials for future movies within the movie because they don't want to do post credit sequences.

>>81523943
It's not the reference that's at fault it's how it was used. Even if you knew about reference it still doesn't make sense to put it in the middle of the movie where it does nothing to help with the rising action. The movies entire momentum if there was any is dropped at that point.

>>81522774
>It's a manifestation of Batman's distrust of Superman as reflected in his subconscious

The audience doesn't need a "manifestation of Batman's distrust of Superman." We all saw why Batman distrusts Superman. We don't need a dream sequence that adds nothing to the plot at all, other than an unnecessary fight scene.

Batman v Superman is a shit movie, anyway. Most of the scenes in the movie are questionable.

How the fuck could you not understand this, really.

>>81524086
>thinks Im the same anon

Who's the idiot? You're talking to multiple people dingleberry.

Im the one saying there's no way to know. Im not that anon that said the majority have seen it. I disagree with the idea of knowing that precisely. I say, it's impossible. You're saying its possible and have an idea of what the numbers are. So....where is the basis for your information?

>>81523103
who is darkseid? how a i supposed who that is?

>>81524004
Why are you being stupid

Confuse me? what movie is this even from?

>>81522774
>also Spider-man had no point or relevance in Civil War
I really wish Spiderman wasn't in Civil War and they had Tony Stark meeting him in his room at the beginning of Homecoming or something.

Would have been a good surprise but of course "MUH MOVIE MUST MAKE A BIG BOX OFFICE SO CRAM HIM IN"

>>81524149
lol, way to grasp at straws for that Spider-man nonsense. He could have "funded the future" easily without having Disney shoehorn in another character out of the blue to spout the same old quips.

Why not "fund the future" with established characters from past movies?

>>81524229
By being literally retarded or just shitposting on purpose.

>>81524310
Injustice: The Movie

>>81524349
>Why not "fund the future" with established characters from past movies?
because he was already "funding" them?

>>81524090
>I never said a movie needs to be 100% understandable.

You earlier

>they don't have to be easily understood, but a movie should 100% be self contained

No wonder a movie that isn't just marvel quips confuses you!

>Even you stupid little joker example serves the movie. It sets up that batman isn't done, that he's just started his career as batman, it doesn't even necessarily set up the sequel.

and the dream sequence sets up that Batman views superman as a super-powered tyrant

I mean you'll of course deny this, but it's 100% clear you never applied this arbitrary "you can't reference a sequel in a movie" rule until just now.

>>81524450
>>I never said a movie needs to be 100% understandable.
>You earlier
>>they don't have to be easily understood, but a movie should 100% be self contained
I'm not every going to respond to you anymore. You literally have a reading comprehension problem. You literally quoted me saying they don't need to be understandable.

>>81523881

yeah cause you naturally understood this without ANYONE telling you what it meant.

You are here in this thread to learn something so stop acting all high and mighty you humongous fat faggot

>>81522774
It's sad you think this.

He already stated his motive and his intent. Adding this "knightmare" is redundant to that end. All it really accomplishes is "world building" and shoving completely irrelevant action into the movie half way to keep the audience interested.

Its fucking useless and a better written movie would have scrapped it altogether.

>>81524366
Huh, I might have seen that. Must have been an incredibly forgettable piece of cinema

>>81524498
k, you just keep jumping from thing to thing. First you feigned that you were confused, then you claimed you understood it fine and the REAL problem was that mainstream audiences might have problems. Then it was that a movie should shouldn't reference a sequel

You just seem desperate to create special rules and conditions that ONLY apply to BvS.

But keep up that "hurrr reading comprehension" shit.

>>81524292
Why are YOU being stupid? You can't stick a massive action dream sequence in there without context and then complain that the audience doesn't have a clue what the fuck is going on.

>>81524349
>way to grasp at straws for that Spider-man nonsense
It's literally explained for you.
I'm sorry you can't even follow a capeshit movie, I'll pray for you, son.

>Why not "fund the future" with established characters from past movies?
Because Peter was separate from the Avengers who Tony foresaw failing in Age of Ultron and saw the Accords as the probable nail in the coffin.

And who from the past movies represents the future moreso than Peter?

>>81523002
>Gets BTFO

Y-you just had to mention marvel didn't you!!

>>81524667

>Because Peter was separate from the Avengers who Tony foresaw failing in Age of Ultron and saw the Accords as the probable nail in the coffin.

And who from the past movies represents the future moreso than Peter?

I can invent in-universe reasons to explain sequel setups too!

It's clear you'll say anything to justify the shoehorned spider-man but not the darkseid foreshadowing

>>81524614
I'm very clearly not jumping to thing to thing. I never feigned confusion, and my point the whole time has been that mainstream audiences who don't know the comics would have a problem. Your reading comprehension problem and marvel insecurity if clouding your understanding of what I've been very clearly saying. I'll say it one last time boiled down simply to answer OP's question:
the scene confused so many audiences and critics because it had no real relevance to the rest of the film, just the sequel.

>>81523531
holy shit, you are stupid. why don't you create your own set of rules for making a movie and try publishing it, dumb faggot

>>81524757
So answer these 3 questions:

1.) Can a movie reference a sequel.

2.) If you answer no to #2, do you hate nearly every genre movie ever made?

3.) Should a movie write itself around how easily every part of its potential audience can understand

4.) Should a comic book movie appeal to comicbook fans

>>81524237
>knowingly debate with multiple people
>does nothing to differentiate themselves
>"higher than thou" attitude for your ineptness

/clap

>>81524757

Also you did claim a movie should be 100% self-contained, I just quoted the wrong post earlier

see >>81523531

>>81524756
Foreshadowing is cool, when it's well written. I can tell you why it's not written well in Age of Ultron either, but you don't want to hear that because it's already a lauded movie whereas Civil War is generally liked so you feel more like a snowflake.

Explain why did we need several jarring allusions to a character we haven't met yet everyone seems to know about and vaguely reference the need to prepare for?

>>81524808
>can't tell the difference between 2 posters
>still avoid the subject
>makes it about semantic bullshit, not the issue

So, you got polls of 18-35 year olds if they've seen the 1989 batman movie, or what? You're just talking out your ass and bullshitting to avoid that you got nothing to back up that statement.

>>81526350
>continues to broaden the argument

You're not very good at this debating/arguing/conversation stuff are you?

>>81526485

you got anything to back that statement up?

>>81525082
"laud" means "praise" you cunt. If you don't know what a word means, look it up before using it.

>>81526556

Every one of your posts.
You're not very good at this.

>>81526631

Well, I mean, Im not really debating or arguing or even conversing. Someone said.

>Again, most people don't give a fuck since they've never seen it.

About thre 1989 Batman movie, and I don't think there anyway to really know those numbers. I called bullshit. There's no further argument from me after that point, I don't need to make a further one. My point continuously still stands till something substantial to counter it is presented. Doesn't matter if Im good or bad at debating, im still right. i could be arguing the sky is blue badly, Id still be right whether I did it well or not.

>>81522673
The Flash.
You have a group of people that have NO FUCKING IDEA what the Flashes powers encompass or you have a group of people who KNOW THE POWER SET of Flash really well. Either way there's no precedent saying proximity to the Flash himself or the Flash traveling through time gives you visions of the future or prophetic dreams. And as a result you have people that either don't know what the fuck is going on or people that see the Flash and the dream as two separate events.

>>81526853
>There's no further argument from me after that point, I don't need to make a further one
ok but
>My point continuously still stands till something substantial to counter it is presented

You never presented a fact. You're not entitled to anything, especially when you do nothing to back up your views.

>Bruce falls asleep
>Nightmare scene happens, clearly a dream
>Bruce is awoken by the Flash time travel thing
>Bruce wakes up again,
>This means the knightmare scene was a dream within a dream

So was Flash using time travel inception or something?

>>81527786
Also was that Ezra Miller? that dream Flash seemed less gay

>>81526579
My bad, it's one of those words I always think means the opposite for some reason.
'Acute' is another one that i always fuck up.

>>81526872
Either way it's really shitty writing that's sets up another coincidence

>>81522971
>jesus, you jumped to the "b-b-but MARVEL!!!!"argument pretty quick
It like those thor Threads with DCBTFO

>>81524642
This, this right here. If someone doesn't know all this shit, the entire sequence seems jarring as hell.

>>81528327
The entire concept of dream sequences is flawed in a movie like BvS imo.

They established everything that was necessary beforehand so all the dream accomplished was plugging sequels/spin ofs.

It was probably meant to keep the pacing exciting by shoehorning action in but the action has no consequences whatsoever since its a fucking dream.

AND its badly choreographed as well.

>>81528381
It actually hurt the pacing if anything, since it took everyone out of the natural build up of batman fighting superman.

>>81528327
>caring about normies getting confused

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>>81527786
Doesn't THAT particular scene supposedly leading us to the Justice League ??? Weeell DESU there are too many reference that leading to so many places & points DC universe in the film. It takes D.C. Nerd head to figure out everything. I have problems with comic films that require the study to fully understand.

>>81528522
People here seem to care, seeing as how they whine when it got bad reviews

>>81528571
Yeah but I don't care, I'm an actual comic fan who understood it perfectly because the movie was catered towards the actual fans instead of the Captain America T-Shirt wearing retards who post the latest quip trailer on twitter

>>81528618
That's fine, just don't pretend that a film is good if you need to have a ton of supplementary knowledge just to understand what is happening

>>81528618
Comics aren't real bro, it's just fiction

>>81528044
Kek

>>81528618
>because the movie was catered towards the actual fans
it really wasn't

>>81528847
Neither is white privilege

that's not stopping the critics from complaining about it as well

>bvs thread
>marvel compared in second post

...

>>81522897
Wherr is it implied darkseid ruled the earth? The big omega logo? That literally means nothing and why the locust? It diesnt fit a narrative if they are in it and you have the legion of superman followers. Its a crammed mess

>>81522673
watched BvS the other day and it still leaves me confused on why they decided to leave this in the movie.

Bruce is staring at a computer screen, decrypting the drive and all of a sudden this scene starts. No context, no setup, no explanation. It just immediately cuts.

Forget the capeshit Marvel vs DC shitposting for a sec, and acknowledge that the editing in this film was awful at times.

>>81522859
>thinking a overly crammed nod to the injustice storyline makes sense to anyone that isnt into comics.
>b-but marvel!!1!!!
Dcucks everyone

>>81529098
But dude Jesus symbology and a beautiful lies and why do you think batman made a spear instead of a dildo?

>>81528503
That's what I mean. I don't equate exciting to good.

If it had been integrated into the story logically then maybe it'd have made more sense.

If I have free time after exams I'm going to do a very lengthy shit post about this fucking abomination. Copy every single autistic BvS apologetic thesis and explain why they're all wrong.

There's a massive amount of sophistry about this movie and it actually disgusts me that the same board that posts incessantly about it couldn't give less of a shit about Lynch, Trier, Berg, Tarkovsky, Goddard, Herzog, etc.

>>81523663
>its a future scene!
>glosses over he wakes up again after el flasho warns him.
I wonder ehy people thought it was a dream.
If anything it would point to batmans confirnation bias about how he feels about space jesus.

>>81522774
Sorry senpai, it's time travel shenanigans.

But it does add to his distrust of supermab

>>81528618
>im a comic fan.
That why why you, me, and anyother knew whats going on. Otherwise the average person didn't know

It confused me why it hadn't been edited out. Fucking Chekhov's gun: if it doesn't have a pay-off it shouldn't be there.
>buh buh but it's setting up future events
Not a valid excuse. movies stand on their own. That scene had nothing to do with the movie it was in.

>>81522859
I know about apocalypse and his omega sign but this scene made no sense in the movie. I thought I missed something. I still don't get it. Why was he dreaming this?

>>81522971
But isn't this what Avengers 2 did with Thor and the magical pool allowing him to glimpse infinity stones

Can any marvel fags explain that scene to me? Being genuine. How does scarlet witch give Tony near prophetic visions to see the avengers crushed by Thanos? Also Thor being hated in dream Asgard, what was the context and backstory for this.

I'm not baiting just genuinely curious

>>81529329
>But isn't this what Avengers 2 did with Thor and the magical pool allowing him to glimpse infinity stones
it is, and it was a stupid scene in that shit movie too. But we're not talking about that movie and just because they did it doesn't mean it's fine that it's in BvS.

If I remember correctly, she just created an illusion of their worst nightmares.

>>81523663
Lol why wouldn't people think it's a dream?. You know you can dream things about people without knowing them personally. Am I supposed to know that flash came from the future and was someone use his speed powers to give Batman visions of the future?

>>81529391
at least the thor scene happened after the action and wasn't shoehorned in the middle.

>>81529391
>Tony's worst nightmare is watching all his 'friends' die to an implied purple grapefruit
>shield is broken even though he wanted nothing to do with Sheild and dislikes Cap and everything he stands for

I fucking hate Tony ay

>>81529329
This is why Avengers 2 was complete shit. Executives shoehorned stupid ideas to promote their franchise. Also whedon should only direct for CW.

>>81529329
the thing with Avengers 2 is that they actually cheated in a way. With Thor's vision, they did a one-two punch by combining the creation of vision with the infinity stone revelation. this could not have happened if they hadn't retconned Vision from the comics and have the gen in his forehead be an infinity stone.

this makes the scene seem less blatant because it connects a plot or character in the current movie.

with BvS, that scene has absolutely nothing to do with the movie itself. it's purpose is only to tease a future film because you never hear or see about it again and you have flash literally coming from the future.

>>81529329
But age of ultron was much later into the mcu where most people watching mcu have been fed smaller pieces of the upcoming fight with thanos. I don't read the comics but already knew what the infinity stones were by that point.

BvS is barely the dcmu second movie and were already getting scenes that depict the much more bigger stories of the lore.

Imagine if in ironman 2 Tony got knocked out and gets a dream where he's fighting half the avengers at an airport with another half of the avengers, it just wouldn't make sense.

Marvel at least gives us very small teases of other movies that get people more curious than alarming scenes that break momentum.

>>81529316
>Fucking Chekhov's gun: if it doesn't have a pay-off it shouldn't be there.
Lol. Are you a first year film school student, or perhaps some equally useless Liberal Arts major?

>>81522673
This was maybe my favorite scene in the movie.

>>81529734
even if he is, does that mean he don't have a point? ad hominem ass nigga ffs

>>81529329

>How does scarlet witch give Tony near prophetic visions to see the avengers crushed by Thanos?

She doesn't. She shows Tony his biggest fear, him and the avengers unable to stop another Alien attack that ends up killing all of them and leaving the Earth at the mercy of that outside Alien force. He never sees Thanos in that sequence, Thanos is never mentioned in the whole movie. All we see are all the dead avengers around Tony and an Alien force that looks like the ones that attacked New York in the first Avengers.

As far as the audience is concerned that's all that it was. It serves to make Tony more fearful and try to push the Ultron program to protect Earth if the Avengers should fail. It serves a purpose.


>But isn't this what Avengers 2 did with Thor and the magical pool allowing him to glimpse infinity stones

That was honestly a fucking mess in a movie filled with shit decisions. Joss Whedon went full quip in AoU and it fucking showed. Ultron was underwhelming, Thor was underpowered, Hulk was underpowered as well and Quicksilver shouldn't have died. Also the Black Widow backstory and romance with Banner wasn't needed.

>>81528523
is this a copypasta?

>>81529098
Autism

>>81528503
They should have made this the post credits scene. Instead of a 30 second long marvel quipfest, give us a god damn short film.

>>81530066
Me or who i replied to?

>>81524229
Did you watch this in theatres, without hearing about any of the scenes in it? Do you have extensive knowledge of DC comics and video game tie ins?

No? Then maybe it would be disorientating for the movie to transition from Bruce on the computer to a dream (alternate reality) that then transition to Bruce waking up to a man emerging from a portal saying barely audible and confusing dialogue. Then it ties it up with an inception waking from a dream within a dream.

The theatrical cut was plagued with shitty editing that jumped from scene to scene, compounded with transitions straight to dream squences it made the film hard to follow on first viewing.

>>81529141
There is a transition clue, whenever Bruce is dreaming you'll know because you can hear the world engine from MoS make the buzzing noise.

That doesn't make it any better because the knightmare scene has no barring on the actual plot aside from foreshadowing the sequel, it's also made worst when it transition to another maybe dream squence with a hard to identify and hear Flash.

>>81523663
>Superman talks about Batman taking "her" away from him when he knows nothing about Superman personal life.

If a guy punches you in the face randomly on the street talking about how you took her away from him does that mean you know who he's talking about?

Even if you understood the comic's references, how the fuck is batman having a vision from the future ? What is the link with flash powers and premonition in other people ? This scene really doesn't make any sense when you think a little about it and only a dcuck could defend it

>batman has a dream of a world claimed by darksied (as indicated by the omega symbol) and staffed with an army of parademons

>dude its bruce's subconscious fears of supermans!

This always was the most hilarious part of the "BvS is good" maymay

>>81531550
Batman sees Darkseid's fucking Omega symbol burned into the ground, and up to this point in the actual timeline he's never heard of Darkseid, much less seen his symbol. That's like having a random dream where you not only see your future wife, but you find out her exact birthdate.

>>81522893
This. Its honestly my favorite part of the movie.

>>81526995

My view is that the opinion "Not many people have seen it" is completely unfounded and not based on reality. You have to then present some reality to counter that view. My view is not weakened until there is a fact. I don't need a facts, the counter needs facts, because they are the one lacking facts. Im pointing it out, the opinion is based on.....what? Thats what I want to know. It can be an opinion I guess. You can feel as if not many people have seen it, but.... like, that's my point. Someone could disagree with those feelings and someone has in this topic. I'd prefer some kind of fact to back up feeling that way, or I'll continue to write it off as BS. This is the the way arguments actually work. Otherwise its just a bunch of lols

why do smelly disneylets bombard these threads when they have their own?
Are they paid to do it?

>>81533941
Protip: DCucks are first and foremost disneylets

>>81533969
How the fuck you figure that one?

>>81523405
>That's totally Bruce talking about himself

That's Bruce totally talking about Robin and probably Harvey Dent, too.

>>81522673
A couple of friends of mine didn't realize it was a dream/vision, they actually thought it was time travel. They didn't even pick up on who Wonder Woman was though, they never connected the dots...

They're, I would say, the lowest common denominator.

>>81522774
Its not just a manifestation. It's a prophetic dream. Batman knows things in his dream about Superman that he didn't know. Psychic batman is going to be even more stupid in the JLA.

>>81534631
He's not psychic. It was a side-effect of Barry's time portal.

I also know why he "woke up" twice.

>>81534768
Why?

>>81523151
>Plus Batman killed people in the iconic 80s version.
And the entire fucking thesis of the even more iconic Nolan trilogy was all about his refusal to directly kill people. If "Batman doesn't kill" had wiggle room for general audiences in 1990, it sure as shit doesn't now after 3 good movies and hundreds of episodes of animated series shit and like 5 popular video games all about how he doesn't kill. Batman doesn't kill. It's his thing. Everyone knows its his thing. Doing some vague and underexplained nonsense plot about prison branding doesn't make it any less insane that Batman is literally machine gunning security contractors to death from his tank for no reason.

>>81534849
Because they're playing it smart with their time travel. However big the portal was, Barry's not able to physically pass through to the past. They were using Kryptonian tech to contact Bruce telepathically, so his first awakening was a false awakening.

If they're really smart, they only give him a limited number of uses on whatever device is letting them access the past in the first place. The smart move would be to make the tech dependent on an exotic energy source.

Did you get it? The rock?

>>81534855
He didn't *directly* kill in this one either. And even those he did kill, he could only kill in self-defense.

Snyder does this shit on purpose to point out the mental gymnastics people are willing to employ in order to claim the Batman never kills. Choosing to let someone die when you could save them is still killing them. Burning a ninja dojo full of people damn sure probably killed someone, too. It's not like Bruce went back to check.

>>81535036
That's some really stupid headcanon. I guess you have to resort to that when the movie is so shitty.

>>81522673
I was so high when I saw this movie and I really couldn't take it serious was way too high at the time I saw this shit fest. Like the part in the intro when young Bruce is falling down in the well or whatever made me kek hard.

>>81535324
Yeah, now that you mention it I guess having a thought process does come across as "stupid headcanon" when you're an utter fucking moron.

Thank you. This has been an insightful exchange.

>>81522935
Cause his bitch died

>>81523581
Google it you fucking autist

>>81523103

>somehow Batman's subconscious interpreted his distrust of Superman into beings and symbols from worlds away Batman couldn't possibly have any knowledge of
>b-b-b-buh muh Flash

The whole scene was shameless sequel bait and fanservice for comic book nerds

>>81535711
Hey man, just curious. If you mention or show events, places, or people that are already being slated to be referenced or shown again in a future installment of an ongoing series of films, is that sequel bait?

Like, when everybody won't shut the fuck up about Sauron or Mordor in Fellowship, but we never get there till two movies later, is that sequel bait to you, or is it just story-telling?

people are jumping through so many hoops just to defend a shitty movie

>>81535871
We're warming up for Thor. It pays to keep in practice.

>>81529319
Apocalypse is from Marvel you dipshit

>>81535863

>Like, when everybody won't shut the fuck up about Sauron or Mordor in Fellowship, but we never get there till two movies later,

False equivalency. LOTR establishes the overarching plot early on so the viewer knows they're going to Mordor and why, and who Sauron is.

BvS on the other hand never mentions Darkseid. In fact Superman's extraterrestrial origins are a huge deal because it proves humanity is not alone in the universe. In addition, normies might not know who Flash is or that he can time travel, making the scene even more confusing.

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>he doesn't know what parademons are

>>81535966
a demon that goes back in time to kill his grandfather???

>>81522971
It's unfortunately what happens when you let Snyder have any kind of say in the story, as opposed to just adapting an actual existing comic.

Anyone who saw Sucker Punch could've easily saw this nonsense coming. He's fucking terrible with original work, but great with adaptations.

>>81535955
>False equivalency

Did it establish Gondor early, too? Or Arnor, or explain what Galadriel meant when she said she would diminish and pass into the West?

I don't seem to recall them receiving any cut-scenes or set-up movies.

What I'm doing here is pointing out your cynicism and cognitive bias, in case you were wondering.

>>81535092
>He didn't *directly* kill in this one either
Directly fired a fucking batmobile mounted machine gun directly into a full car until it exploded.
> And even those he did kill, he could only kill in self-defense.
The fucking point is that Batman is such a ninja badass that he doesn't need to kill in self-defense. He's not some pussy George Zimmerman faggot. He's goddamn batman.

Also he wasn't defending himself. He was attacking a convoy transporting a rare mineral.
>Snyder does this shit on purpose to point out the mental gymnastics people are willing to employ in order to claim the Batman never kills.
No. He explicitly said that he doesn't think Batman machine gunning people isn't killing because manslaughter doesn't count.
>Choosing to let someone die when you could save them is still killing them.
Superman chooses to let people die constantly. That's a deleted scene in BvS, Superman ignoring the constant pain and death he can hear. Is he murdering those people?
>Burning a ninja dojo full of people damn sure probably killed someone, too
It's not him directly shooting people with the intent to kill them. And the entire point was that it was his turning point. He chose to sabotage the temple full of bad guys as a way to keep from having to directly murder someone.
> It's not like Bruce went back to check.
It's not like he has to. He doesn't ensure "do no harm." And still: not saving all the ninja death cult =/= murdering security contractors needlessly in a failed mission.

>>81536140

>Did it establish Gondor early, too?

Gondor was irrelevant at the time during Fellowship. When the story escalates, Gondor is brought up and explained organically. Or perhaps did you expect Gandalf to explain the history and geography of Middle Earth in the first 20 minutes of the first film?

>Or Arnor,

?

>or explain what Galadriel meant when she said she would diminish and pass into the West?

They discuss the decline of elves briefly but do not elaborate because elves are not the focus of the story. It even ties in thematically, as elves have largely given up on Middle-Earth yet some come to human aid despite themselves.

LOTR is a perfect example of organic worldbuilding. It leaves plot-irrelevant details vague but not so much that they become plot holes.

If Snyder had directed Fellowship, Frodo would have had a dream about Melkor wrecking shit aright after Bilbo's party, and no explanation given afterward.

>What I'm doing here is pointing out your cynicism and cognitive bias

Right back at you, pal.

>>81536225
Not even going to bother. You couldn't miss the point any harder if you fucking tried. Which you most likely did.

>>81536556
>You couldn't miss the point any harder if you fucking tried.
Right back at you faggot.
>Which you most likely did.
Watched BvS 13 times. Written extensively about Batman. You're trying to defend batmanslaughter, meekly. You're trying to create headcanon about the creator's intent. Batman doesn't kill. And Zack knows that, and tried and failed to do an arc about Batman's fall from grace and descent into killing, but he spilled spaghetti all over everything and ended up vaguely hinting and shit while constantly contradicting himself.
>Not even going to bother.
for the best. You're on the wrong side of history m8

>>81536411
>Gondor was irrelevant at the time during Fellowship.

Then why did they mention it? I smell sequel bait,

>Or Arnor,
It's the "secret fire" that Gandalf is the bearer of and cites as the reason that the Balrog's "dark fire will not avail [him]." Never established, never referenced again. Shit story-telling tbqhwyfam,

>Everything else.
Precisely what I'm talking about when I say "cognitive bias." I'm not the one saying either LotR or the DC movies are telling a story "wrong" when they do these things. You are. You're giving one a pass for using relatively obscure fantasy lore in a movie with a largely normie crowd and calling it "sequel bait" when the other one does it.

>>81536632
Point blank: Did. It. Show. Batman, Put. A. Bullet. Directly. Into. Anyone?

If you answer no, then you and I both know at this point, we're arguing degrees of separation in a story that's clearly intended to show us a broken, fallen Bruce, who even in this state, can't bring himself to kill in cold blood.

So why didn't El Flasho tell Batman what will happen? I mean he went on and on about how he was too early. Would it be that hard to say "Superman turns evil because someone killed Lois" or whatever happened

>>81536678
It would be if that's not what's happening. Barry's always presented as a smart, scientific type, so it might be that by surmising that he was too soon, he could actually screw things up worse by saying anything that he couldn't provide proper context for in the brief time that he had.

Bonus Round: Even what he did might have only served to guarantee the very future he's trying to prevent.

>>81536677
>Point blank: Did. It. Show. Batman, Put. A. Bullet. Directly. Into. Anyone?
yes.
>If you answer no
I didn't. He shoots directly into the cab of a full vehicle until it explodes.
>fallen Bruce, who even in this state, can't bring himself to kill in cold blood.
He kills in cold blood. He runs over someone's head with the batmobile. He drags a disabled car full of people behind the murdermobile just to make sure they get dead.

Plus, the fucking branding shit was set up as Batman knowingly giving people a "death sentence" for whatever reason. (and don't say Lex was secretly killing them to make Batman look bad because that deflates the entire arc that Zack was doing.

>>81536678
because they don't want to reveal too much about future movies.

that scene was completely unnecessary and should've been left on the cutting room floor. the only payoff of that scene is for fans to go "oh, so that's what he was trying to say in BvS."

>>81536787
>yes.
When?

>>81523607
>everyone has armos because
Not me, that's for sure.

>>81536787
>He kills in cold blood. He runs over someone's head with the batmobile. He drags a disabled car full of people behind the murdermobile just to make sure they get dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every last one of those guys either shooting at him or getting ready to at their next opportunity? I don't think you get what "cold blood" and "self defense" mean.

>>81528327
Didn't Flash explain that shit in the end of the sequence?
Are people actively avoiding to connect dots for a second?

>>81536829
>shooting at him
>while he's in his bulletproof tank
>murders them without mercy
>this is still self defense

you can't be this stupid

>>81536801
read more than first word dipshit. He kills AT LEAST 4 or 5 people in the useless convoy attack. That's assuming the guys in the car he drags survive. He shoots KGBeast with Martha Kent in the room.
>>81536829
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every last one of those guys either shooting at him or getting ready to at their next opportunity?
Security contractors doing their job. They where defending themselves.
>I don't think you get what "cold blood" and "self defense" mean.
I don't think you get what NOT KILLING means. He's not some stand your ground faggot that murders people and justifies it because he was afraid like a coward. He's above that. That's the fucking point.

J think people come to superhero movies with certain expectations. The formula of the typical superhero movie has existed since... I wanna say Iron Man but it's probably more like Raimi's Spiderman. Silly light hearted action comedy where you can take everything at face value. The only succesful recent superhero movies to deviate from that formula were the Dark Knight ones and Nolan isn't a director who relies much on abstractions either.

You watch Batman v Superman and you get something sorta different. It's debatable if it's any deeper or more meaningful but it's different. And it threw a lot of people off, even people who should know better like professional critics

>>81536899
Your reading comprehension sucks all ass, son. Show me the clip. Show me the ragdolling of the body. You can't, because that's not what he's aiming at. He's aiming at the gas tank just like he aims at the flamethrower later on.

I'll repeat that just so you don't miss it again:

You can't.

>Security contractors doing their job. They where defending themselves.
So was he, you fucking moron. That's what happens when you're an unbalanced vigilante looking for excuses to feed your beast - you put yourself in harm's way and retaliate.

>>81537366
>Show me the clip. Show me the ragdolling of the body. You can't, because that's not what he's aiming at. He's aiming at the gas tank just like he aims at the flamethrower later on.
He blasts bullets through all the windows. Even if he was firing for the fuel tank, that's still firing, FROM A TANK, at a convoy of guys doing their job, with the intent to cause them to fucking explode. He drives his TANK and jumps it into someone's face. He rams his own vehicle and destroys half the truck that has the MacGuffin he is after.
>Show me the ragdolling of the body.
It's not a ragdolling body. It's 2 cars full of people that where exploded and needlessly dragged and smashed into a fucking wall or whatever. It was a guy unambiguously getting hit in the face by the batmobile's wheel as it surprise attack jumps into the truck.
>You can't.
lol
>SHOW ME THINGS I'M MAKING UP AND IGNORING TO ACKNOWLEDGE
>you can't
no shit.
>So was he, you fucking moron.
He was attacking them. Unlawfully. When they where doing a simple escort mission for a rock from a shipyard to Lexcorp. No part of him showing up and killing everyone was him acting in his own defense. AND AGAIN, BATMAN ISN'T SOME FAGGOT. MUH SELF DEFENSE KILLING MAKES HIM A NON-BATMAN PUSSY.

>>81523564
Like the whole retarded stark vs cap at the end.

>>81537366
Assume i drop a brick on a baby's skull and the baby dies.

Defend me in , prove i didn't actually murder that baby

>>81537366
https://youtu.be/GgkQS7q6sT0

So, he crushes some guy with the batmobile
He explodes a truck with a man on top of it
Opens some guy's skull with a crate
Kicks a man into a grenade
And then explodes KGBeast

>>81522673
Some people had to watch Inception a couple of times to understand it. Let that sink in

This film is too smart for its own good. Couole that with Disney's paid shills and you have an online audience that more or less intentionally misunderstand the film so they can fit in with social media.

One year later and Marvel third-worlders still shitposting BvS. Some things never change.

>>81537096
I generally believe MCU has completely ruined the genre and turned it into an infantile trivializing mess. Even watching Logan, you could see how the audience tried to force laughters everywhere when the film didn't call for it. They are drugged up on the Disney drug and will accept no substitutes.

>>81537908
I understand the film. I've studied it. It's dogshit. If you think you're smart because you think you "got it." You're fucking stupid.

>>81538080
Go shill more Thor Ragnaquips MCUck.

>>81538097
Nobody can talk about BvS without DCucks desperately whining about Marvel.

Why do you suppose you're such a desperate mewling faggot?

>>81538080
So bad you spend every minute of your waking life on saying how much you hated it for months on end.

>>81538187
I've spent like an hour of today shitposting before going to work. You understand that there are more than one person here right?

this scene was weird as fuck

so batman thought superman was a great threat because of this weird dream about flying ant monsters?

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>>81538237
Sure you did. Same as it was just an hour of shitposting yesterday. And the day before today. You are already working. No need to hide it.

>>81538262
Superman can fly too can't he

>>81538265
>Sure you did. Same as it was just an hour of shitposting yesterday. And the day before today.
Always with the projection. Haven't been on /tv/ in weeks. Been busy doing real people stuff.
>You are already working.
Whatever you have to tell your mush minded fucking brain grapes m8. If it makes you feel better about your life to think that the only people that disagree with your contrarian dipshit opinion are being paid to, I'll be your huckleberry.
>No need to hide it.
Said the unpaid shill to the unpaid shit talker.

>>81538436
>feeling this defensive over being called out the shill he is
Hit too close to home I guess. Soft spot there?

Normies are stupid

>>81538472
>feeling this defensive
always with the projection.
And eh I just respond to (you)s. I'm sorry if me not being a retarded cultist has triggered you so much that you think I give a shit about you. You're an argument generator.

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>>81537594
You're such a dickhead.

Here's the gif. Turns out neither one of us was right. He's not targeting the passenger compartment. He's not targeting the gas tank. He's targeting the rear driver's side suspension. As the rear quarter panel deforms, the rear window blows out. When the suspension collapses, the driver loses control, flips, and gunfire then ignites the gas tank and the vehicle explodes.

>>81537594
>He was attacking them. Unlawfully. When they where doing a simple escort mission for a rock from a shipyard to Lexcorp.

Every goddam thing the Batman has ever done is unlawful, you unbelievable fucking jackass.

>No part of him showing up and killing everyone was him acting in his own defense.
Yeah, except they opened fire before he ever even fired a shot. He goaded them into it, but then again, that's the point of what I've already said.

>AND AGAIN, BATMAN ISN'T SOME FAGGOT. MUH SELF DEFENSE KILLING MAKES HIM A NON-BATMAN PUSSY.
THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT, YOU FUCKING MORON. WHEN HE CROSSES HIS LINE, HE CEASES TO BE THE BATMAN. HE'S THE FUCKING VILLAIN HERE. HE'S THE ONE IN THE WRONG. HIS ENTIRE FUCKING REDEMPTION ARC IS ABOUT HIM COMING TO GRIPS WITH THAT FUCKING FACT. YOU CAN'T HAVE A FUCKING REDEMPTION ARC IF YOU DON'T EVEN FUCKING NEED REDEMPTION.

And yet, I bet your stupid fucking ass never complained ONCE when Miller had Superman take the Green Arrow's arm off. Never once complained when he was off fighting dirty little wars in South America and cracking goddam battleships in half. I guess no one got hurt there because Miller just neglected to show us Supes super-speed evaccing all the sailors before he set to work, huh?

Miller's story - Superman across the line, Batman edging ever closer. Snyder's story - Batman across the line, Superman edging ever closer.

>>81537684
Think again, motherfucker. I'm so fucking done with you. They put all this meticulous effort and detail into these movies and it's wasted on fucking fanboys like you.

>>81522971
>>81523002
he's pointing out the double standards of the film critics you dumb marvel drones

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>>81538872
didn't read. don't care. you're a cuck. I don't need your desperate justifications. The movie was dogshit poorly processed.

>>81522673
because the whole movie is a mess

>>81539064
You must have a low IQ. the film is basically an IQ test the higher it is the easier you understand the film. i would say it's probably the most intelligent capefilm ever released.

>>81539003
>t. Senor Gallina

Feigned indifference - the last bastion of the utterly, irrevocably, inescapably BTFO.

Watch this, kid. It's what actual indifference looks like.

Will we ever have another capekino as good as BvS again? i watched it for the 8th time last night and im still catching new things. i wish Snyder received the appreciation he deserves.

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>>81539274
Me too, man. I hope he knows that his fans love him and his work.

>>81539140
>Feigned indifference - the last bastion of the utterly, irrevocably, inescapably BTFO.
whatever you gotta tell yourself mang.
>Watch this, kid.
>kid.
cringe
>It's what actual indifference looks like.
thanks for the (you) m8

The fact is Marvel will never be more popular than DC. Average Domestic sales say so. WBs is still averaging more money domestically than Marvel. People just have higher expectations for DC movies. and they've already met those expectations, after only their 3rd film they are already an oscar winning franchise. Marvel hasn't even achieved that after 10 years and 14 movies.
they are just flicks to literally turn your brain off bro.

DCEU has made more money and more awards in less than half the time it took marvel. and the DCEU is just getting started while the MCU is finally coming to an end. RIP marvel you had a good run.

>>81535036
It's powered by kryptonite?

>>81539121
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand pretentious symbolism and bad filmmaking

>>81522673
>HURR DURR BUT WAS IT A DREAM!?!?
No retards. When flash shows up the room goes crazy; when Bruce wakes up there are papers still flying around the room. Bam now you know.

>>81539649
That's my bet.

>>81539774
The rock in the dream was the one he stole from Lex corp and that's all used up now.

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>>81539709
You're not wrong, but it takes a real idiot to not misinterpret what they're looking at that badly.

You want truly empty symbolism? Look no further than the inestimable Mr. Singer.

Seriously - look at that and tell me what it's saying about his character or his world that's not already blatantly obvious,

>>81539797
Nah, it's still in Doomsday right now. It may or may not have to stay there.

>>81539848
That's only a shard of it but it went straight through and came out the other side.

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>>81539831
Or this one.

people hate bvs based on the fact it challenges the audience. you need to actually think about it to understand.

snyder overestimated the audience. the majority of people are entertained by fart jokes.

>>81539864
That's true, but then we never did see anything beyond the light bulbs in the LexCorp crate. We have no idea whether they take it back, whether the Batman never stole it in that timeline or what.

Hell, LexCorp could conceivably still own what's in Doomsday.

>>81539918
>people hate bvs based on the fact it challenges the audience.
no they hate it because it is stupid, tryhard, narratively incoherent, terribly edited, they fucked up the characters, when it wasn't stupid it was boring, and the big bad was a mindless cave troll.
>snyder overestimated the audience.
yeah turns out everyone isn't into iamverysmart incompetent flailing.

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So yeah, happened across pic related browsing Wonder Woman's IMDB credits the other day.

I want this to happen. I want this to happen soooooo damn bad,

>>81535630
They won't let me use Google in the theater

>>81540028
What were the three principal's character arcs about? What was the central theme of the movie? It had one. It just happens to be one a little bit more mature and more maturely handled than in your standard beat-em-up.

It can't be that poorly edited and conveyed because I know what it is. Two pass their challenges, one doesn't. There's your hint. What was the challenge?

>>81529329
If I remember correctly there's no actual look of Thanos at any point.

The vision she shows Tony shows the same alien army from Avengers 1 going through the same portal. It just also shows all the other team dead and Cap's shield broken.

>>81536632
>Watched bvs 13 times
>32 hours of BvS

How the fuck are you alive right now?

>>81539918
B5S is a far joke son

>>81537366
Lmao.

At this point I'm beyond being annoyed by BvS threads. Its just fun knowing people are losing their sanity over it.

>>81540373
He's full of shit. He claims that shit all the time just to repeatedly get BTFO like he did in>>81538872.

To be fair, he's either full of shit, a shill, an incredible autist that can't connect the simplest of dots for shit, or some perfect retard storm of all these things.

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>>81539512
>mfw Marvel franchise has earned literally 4.2 billion dollars.
>more than every single other franchise in history
>while dceu is 20th on the list or something.

Why would someone do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

>>81540596
Go ahead. Average it out per movie. We'll wait.

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>>81540625
>Let's pretend that all our movies make the same money and are successful.
>Lets use no other metric for assessing movies.

Anon. I get that you like "your team" but almost all these movies are trash anyways and assuming that the superhero honeypot will continue for another 5+ years is fucking insane.

There have been TWENTY TWO fucking Marvel movies. Probably another 10 from sony and fox, maybe more, and THEN DC has another 10+ down the pipe? AND more marvel schlock otw?

Its only a matter of time before the house of cards folds and I couldn't be happier when it does.

>>81534566
Look at this, DCuck >>81522774
Second post and this insecure fag is already "defending" this movie by comparing it to marvel

>>81535036
How do you know it's kryptonian technology, is the canon from the comics?

>>81535569
It's stupid headcanon because you try to explain why bruce wayne is psychic by linking it to something that is in no way related to flash ability to travel through time. It's stupid if you invent your own parameter to how a magical power work with which rock, it's not an intelligent though process, you're filling holes with things that rely on no real logic

>>81539003
Imagine being this butthurt Pajeet

>>81537096
Come on dickhead, the formula of silly super hero stories is much older than that, you fucking newfag

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Directly or indirectly killing, at the end Batman really does fuck up those henchman. Just look they way he puts them to sleep. He leaves them fucking disabled and with concussions. No normal man can take that shit and get up like it was nothing.

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Another thread of Marvel Pajeets getting BTFO and then resorting to buzzwords to tap out

Holy shit every single day on /tv/

>>81539831
They're many more thing in superman returns that are better than the snyderfest, like the article by lois, superman's son, superman falling to earth, lex kryptonite island. You just conveniently ignore it

>>81540135
A movie with character arcs and which convey themes is smart ? That's like basic filmography you pleb

>>81541454
>That's like basic filmography you pleb
If it's so basic, why is Marvel incapable of pulling it off?

>>81541264

Sure, but I'm gonna say the formula for the Spiderman trilogy or any given Marvel movie is not quite the same as, say, sixties Batman. Honestly, Adam West's Batman show would in some ways seem pretty experimental to someone only used to modern superhero movies, just for how straight faced the comedy is in those.

>>81541743
Because it does, each movie follow a character development and tell a story with a central theme. Just because you decide to not see it doesn't mean it isn't there. My point was, having character arcs evolving around a principal theme isn't what make a movie smart, it's the basic to create a story, you learn that in middle school

>>81522957
>Snyder chose to use the older interpretation of the character

Or, like Superman, he and the writers don't know how to portray a superhero without him being a depressed, murderous lunatic.

>>81541808
Yeah I guess just copying Iron Man and changing superhero name counts as an arc. Shame we've seen that arc a billion times now.

>>81541755
Come on, there are more movie about heroes than the one from dc and marvel. They always have been stories about extraordinary being overcoming incredible odds, on of the point dcucks bring the most is the parallels with ancient mythos but you can't see beyond batman films ? Fuck off

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>>81541820
Are Marvel drones still clinging on to this one?

>he's not smiling like a sperg and quipping like muh Marvels so it's bad
Kill yourself

>>81541855
Care to explain what themes captain, thor and hulk movies copy from iron man ?

>>81541909
Sassy quippy genius is humbled after an accident, has to reinvent himself and drop the cocky attitude to overcome his challenge, in the end everything works out just fine and the quips are back on the menu.

>>81541861

Sure, I'm just saying that the usual formula is something more specific. Wouldn't really compare Batman vs Superman to ancient myths though. The closest thing is probably Watchmen. Of course the writing is a lot clunkier because it doesn't have Watchmen's source material but it's obviously going for something similar.

>>81522971
>I need backup for this insanely personal conflict
>I have an invincible robot, another version of myself, a superpowered king, and a super spy
>BUT I DEFINITELY NEED THIS 14 YEAR OLD TO HELP ME

Its okay when Marvel sets up future characters in hacknyed ways but not when DC does it eh?

>>81540760
Yeah. It's called pointing out hypocrisy.

Because I guarantee you this. There is nothing you can point out from this movie that I can't explain. On the other hand, I haven't the slightest fucking notion how Zemo, a guy working alone with limited resources and a rubber Bucky mask, can pore through what must have been at least tens of thousands of pages of hardcopy and zero in on the fact that there is a "Mission Report December 16th, 1991" and what its implications are and Tony Stark, the foremost tech wiz on the planet with an entire stable of like-minded geniuses at his disposal and access to all of HYDRA and S.H.I.E.L.D.'s leaked files can be blind-sided by its very existence.

The hardest part about shitposting Marvel movies is that you'll be forced to watch them.

>>81528503

Which was lackluster and disappointing in of itself. Normies wanted to see a bare knuckle no holds barred brawl between Batman and Superman because that's what the title and trailer promised. Instead they got a fifteen minute fight surrounded by two hours of lofty dialogue with confusing editing and a complete lack of establishing shots.

>>81542169
There were ton of establishing shots. And none as embarrassing as RDJ and gang looking into a camera in front of a CGI airport.

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Post things that make you go "hmmmmm"

>>81541909
I can't because there's no theme, just a plot. Cap's 2nd movie stands as an exception, because it does do a pretty decent job of highlighting the potential danger of sacrificing freedom for security.

Imagine you don't know anything about the plot or DC? Batman has some weird dream where Superman is evil and there are bug monsters everywhere. Then Bruce wakes up and some mexican guy comes in a portal and vaguely talks about Lois Lane and her importance. Then Bruce wakes up again and nothing relevant to that scene happens again. Batman doesn't change in any way, nor is any more importance put on Lois or Superman becoming evil. It's just useless shit to set up another film. It doesn't even set up Batman's character well, as he had the same motive and ideas for hating Supes before.

>>81541946
So you reduce those characters to a single point and complain because they fight a bad guy in the end, but bvs is better even if they resolve their conflict by fighting a common enemy ? That's some competent criticism here

>>81542314
Imagine you don't know anything about LotR. Why does Galadriel get all spooky and talk all that nonsense about "getting small and going to Hoboken" or whatever? It's garbage sequel bait like that that makes those movies shit.

See how this works?

>>81542238
Come on, what does the plot convey if not a theme for the characters to follow ? It doesn't have to be extraordinary complex to be there. Can't you be a little less biased at least

>>81523077
>They could have used scarecrow, he got away at the end of TDKR, so that's a loose end to tie up
Maybe you'd be onto something if this was a continuation of the Nolan Batmans. But they're not, and you're an idiot for thinking they are.

>>81540896
You ever been asleep next to a wormhole while someone hacks your brain with Kryptonian dream tech? Yeah, me neither. Who knows what could happen, right?

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>>81540135
>What were the three principal's character arcs about?
Bruce Wayne is haunted by the death of Robin as well as the Wayne building getting 9/11ed, which has caused him to fall, and those that fall are fallen meme. He sees killing God or at least dying in the effort as his last action to secure his legacy and right is wrongs etc. He sets about investigating Kryptonite (which he would have no idea existed when he started looking for it, since he didn't find out Lexcorp had it until much later. He belligerently tries to steal the Kyrptonite from a caravan, killing a bunch of dudes for no reason and failing to get the Kryptonite (because Superman is stupid and had no interest in investigating why Batman was in a fire fight with badmen in the middle of Gotham, instead he just does a meaning trailer moment threat and Batman steals the Kryptonite off camera 10 minutes later). Batman eventually makes a fucking Ahab metaphor spear instead of bullets that he places in a place at the bottom of a building where he just assumed the fight would end up. He lights the bat signal, knowing it would be a fuck you to Superman after Superman's threat. somehow lex luthor also knows about the threat Superman made about the light, and they get into a ridiculous fight and all of the character drama and motivation is immediately diffused because Superman called Ma Kent Martha (this was supposed to be a payoff of the mystery about the "you took her from me" line in the Knightmare, but that was sabotaged by Zack and his wife tagging the entirely different Flash tease about Lois at the end.

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>>81540135

Superman is depressed. He's haunted by the destruction from the first one, overwhelmed from being incapable of saving everyone, unsure about his place on a planet that hates him, etc. Whole arc is essentially shown by the dead dad dream about drowning livestock and his conversation with Louis. He begrudgingly saves some people in a sad montage. He begrudgingly goes and talks to congress about a retarded Africa subplot, where they are all blown up by a 9/11 survivor's wheelchair with piss also. This makes him sad as he makes no attempt to save injured people or put out the fires or do anything heroic. He fucks off until Lois is kidnapped for no reason then is bamboozled into fighting Batman because in spite of being able to hear Lois in trouble in Africa he couldn't hear where his mom was a few blocks away. After they fight he inexplicably doesn't go help Batman save his mom. He does nothing until after that happens then goes and confronts Lex. Lex makes a retard monster and Superman does a Lady in the Water King Arthur meme, becomes Jesus and stupidly cripples himself holding a spear instead of just giving it to the fucking Amazonian that isn't allergic to rocks. He dies stupidly, everyone ackwardly recreates renaissance paintings with his corpse, he is buried and then we see dirt hover.

>>81540860
Because they use something very similar to that in Man of Steel when Zod hacks Clark's brain.

If they're smart, they're going to make it physically impossible for the Flash to step into the past. One way to do that would be by making the wormhole too small to pass through. Telepathy(the dream tech) can make it through just fine, though.

The shorter the leash you keep the time travel on, the better off you are.

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>>81540135

Lex Luthor initially talks about trying to be ready to defend against the space gods. He pitches the Senators as being concerned about national security and whatever. 3 minutes into his first scene he molests some unnamed person with candy and gets immediate access to the ship (which nobody thought to turn or do anything with in 15 months apparently) and Zod's body, everything he needed for the third act he was handed for no stated reason in his first scene. After that he has multiple vague, sometimes contradictory monologues about gods above us and all that shit and at some point it's supposed to be implied that he either turned or was lying about giving a shit about security and is just narcissistically obsessed with being more powerful than God. For some reason he mixes his DNA with Zod's in the womb pool and that turns into a super strong cave monster. Oh also for no narrative reason he blows up the government after Senator Lady doesn't let him import Kryptonite, which he had already smuggled in. He gains nothing from committing terrorism and treason and mass murder, and his attempt to frame Superman worked for like 2 minutes before news exposition brushes it aside. Luthor then kidnaps Lois and Martha (which supes doesn't hear) and uses her to force Superman to fight Batman, because Luthor somehow knows that Superman threatened Batman and the Bat Signal was Batman ready to fight. Despite knowing that they should have already been about to confront each other, he kidnapped Lois anyway. After he makes his god monster with no plan on how to control it if it did kill Superman, they fight, he gets caught, then he gives a monologue about how "they're coming" and the meme bell is ringing or whatever, in spite of the fact that the scene that explained his sudden confidence was deleted. Batman shows how he's not a murdersman anymore by not punching Luthor with the death sentence meme brand.

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>critics and audiences complain that the characters lacked motivation and that the plot was confusing
>when the main characters literally stop to directly explain their motivations to the audience through a cypher every ten minutes
>even the visual aspects are directly painting the distrust and gravitas of batman and superman
>Lex literally tells Superman why he hates him on the rooftop
>explicitly shows people dying en masse when Superman and Zod are fighting in Metropolis and Wayne's reaction to it
>audiences and critics are either so retarded they don't understand even this hamfisted blunt explanations or are purposefully misinterpreting it

I like Snyder's take because of the visual imagination, the operatic sort of style to it and the complete lack of postmodern sarcasm

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>>81540135

Lois Lane investigates a bullet for 5 scenes for no reason. She is kidnapped for reasons entirely unrelated to her investigation, then manages to get access to the newspaper chopper ON THE ROOF after she promises it's not for work. She flies to the battle, where she conveniently finds and saves Superman from Batman during the Martha meme. Then she throws the spear away. Then she magically knows to go back and get it when Batman says they need it miles away, and also saves Superman's drowning dumb ass and motivates him to stop being a faggot.

WW and BW meet trying to steal shit from Lex. She steals the shit BW was stealing. Then later gives it to back to him when she figures out she doesn't know how technology works. Then after BW, the protagonist cracks the code send the JL tease meme to WW, a cameo character, and we watch her, not him, learn about the JL team meme. It's unexplained what Lex was doing with all that info and why he didn't also have files on Batman and Superman and why he had a graphic designer design logos. It's left to be speculated that MAYBE he was planning on forming his own JLU shit, apparently to create a force that can oppose Superman, but that's fucking stupid because why would he pit Superman to go kill Batman, instead of connecting Bman to the rally the gang and attack Superman as a team.

Perry White is a terrible newspaper editor. He either doesn't know what desk Clark Kent works for, or is totally fine with his employee actively not doing the Sports page and disobeying orders investigating the Gotham Bat because he saw a cable news story about the Bat brand being a death sentence.

>>81536873
>Didn't Flash explain that shit in the end of the sequence?
not really. And you would have to understand that mr mustachio was flash and that he has the capability to time travel. My teenage cousin who is into comics more than I am asked me who he was and what he was doing. Imagine what the majority of the audience who are normies were thinking.

>>81541395
I never said there weren't. All in all, I thought Returns was a decent movie. I'm specifically talking about a completely empty use of symbolism that says nothing of consequence about the character or informs you about anything happening in the story.

You know, the things people routinely bust Snyder out for on a daily basis and end up looking like hypocritical retards in the process.

>>81541454
So what was the challenge?

>>81542696
Wrong
>>81542729
Wrong
>>81542791
Wrong

>>81537096
>It's debatable if it's any deeper or more meaningful but it's different.
movies can be different if they're good. Being different for the sake of being different and not being good doesn't work.

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>>81523581
Darkseid is one of, if not the biggest bad in the DCU. Dude wants the anti-life equation so he can control the minds of every sentient in the universe. His planet is called Apokolips, it's literally hell. Those bug things from Batman's Knightmare are parademons, his foot soldiers. He was created by Jack Kirby, who incidentally also created Thanos for Marvel a few years later.

Thanos and Darkseid are essentially the same. Differences being Darkseid is gray, Thanos is purple. Darkseid wants the Anti-Life Equation, Thanos wants the Infinity Gauntlet. They're your typical mcguffin hunting ultra-villains.

There, you have been spoonfed. Satisfied?

>>81537800
but at least inception made sense. The scene in BvS did not in context of the rest of the movie.

>>81538938
no, he's resorting to typical DCuck protocol.

>>81542589
Tell you what - why don't you tell me what the theme of Thor 2 was and I'll tell you if I can spot it. I can tell you the plot pretty much note-for-note, but as to an underlying message for the movie? Not really.

>>81542696
>>81542729
>>81542791

>>81542885
Is correct. You got close on one. But here's the clue - all three principals are facing the same kind of challenge. If you're not an absolute pleb, you can spot it.

>>81542986
Yeah, and that protocol is busting out plebs, hypocrites, and hypocritical plebs.

ITT: weapons grade autism

>>81542675
it's still stupid headcanon.

>>81543093
Or reading from a corporate approved script.
Its like a desision tree where the only two outcomes are "Durr u didnt understand" or "lol marvel shill pajeet."
Its embarasingly transparent.

>>81523877
>why should the masses need to know years worth of comic history to understand a shoehorned sequel setup?
If that's what your complaint is, then maybe comic movies aren't the thing for you.

>>81542070
>Its okay when Marvel sets up future characters in hacknyed ways but not when DC does it eh?
at least marvel incorporates them into the current movie and doesn't insert a trailer that has no relation to the rest of the movie.

>>81542100
>Because I guarantee you this. There is nothing you can point out from this movie that I can't explain.
why did superman stop batman from chasing the mercenaries but not the mercenaries themselves?

>>81542224
>And none as embarrassing as RDJ and gang looking into a camera in front of a CGI airport.
>I thought she was with you

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>>81542885
ur cute. not an argument btw.
>>81540373
>How the fuck are you alive right now?
extreme passive masochism and obsessive compulsion. Was working on the idea of doing a fan edit called Batman Versus The Superman that would dramatically change the structure by not showing Superman as anything other than a monster until the third act, and having the first act focused solely on Wayne up to the Luthor banquet. Took scene by scene notes and wrote out a paper edit for like a 90 minute movie that tells the Knightmare and dead parents shit in cross cut scenes and flashes. Movie would portray Bruce as crazier and Zod blowing up congress would be what gets him access to Zod's ship. Would cut the meaningless convoy attack, cut the Lois bullet shit, break up the sad superman saving people sequence to use each shot at key points in the story as a way to highlight and payoff Lex's dumbass monologues.
>>81543064
>you're wrong. I won't say why, but I will say empty vague bullshit without actually advancing a fucking point because I'm incapable of intellectually honest or meaningful thought.

The movie is an endless unorganized series of different thematic things being suggested. They're all confronting mortality, legacy, trying to do what they think is necessary, etc. So for whatever fucking thematic meme you want to talk about, suck a dick or talk you mewling zero sum cunt.

>>81522673

Didn't make any sense.

>>81542237
>comparing how 2 of the top three super heroes of all time barely averages a bit more than marvel's b and c list heroes
>thinks this is a victory

>>81543180
Then prove it, dipshit. Prove you understood one fucking thing about these movies. Let's start with something pleb tier:

What is the religious inconography being used to convey? Is there more than one type? Is it more than one god?

>>81542505
I think it's really cute that you think that you're making a point.

>>81531119
>The theatrical cut was plagued with shitty editing that jumped from scene to scene, compounded with transitions straight to dream squences it made the film hard to follow on first viewing.
That's why I watched the Ultimate Cut. Fills in a lot of the gaps.

>>81543292
It's truth, dumbass. And how facing it is the key to overcoming their respective obsessions.

>>81543367
how does gravity work?

>>81543405
wew lad.

>>81543557
Top notch argument.

>>81535955
>LOTR establishes the overarching plot early on so the viewer knows they're going to Mordor and why, and who Sauron is.
And anyone who has even had a passing interest in DC Comics knows who Darkseid is and what he's all about. Seriously this whole BvS thing just comes across to me as the people who hate it don't know a thing about DC and the people who have some knowledge of DC heroes either enjoyed the movie or were ambivalent towards it.

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>>81543405
>It's truth, dumbass
Lex doesn't face any "truth." He's either lying the entire time or somewhere is corrupted. Exactly what in the dialogue are you referring to suggest the primary thematic message of is "facing truth?" Particularly for Luthor? At the end on the roof it's made relatively clear that he's transferring issues he has with his dad onto God, and he sees Superman as God, and that's a major motivation for his action against Supes.

What Truth is Superman struggling to face? What truth does he overcome? That he needs to stop being a whiny faggot? That he should stupidly sacrifice himself?

What truth is Batman not facing? What truth does Batman face and overcome?

And how is truth the primary theme, over mortality and legacy and fear, which are all concepts explicitly addressed multiple times?

>>81543525
It works by following the inverse square law. Newtonian physics provides no explanation, just the empirical law. The relativistic interpretation is that mass warps the fabric of space.

Now how about my question.

>>81522774
No it's not you dumb ass

>>81537795
But anon, it's all ok because they were KGBeast's guys. And everyone knows bad guys don't have souls, so it's ok to kill them.

>>81539388
>>Feigned indifference - the last bastion of the utterly, irrevocably, inescapably BTFO.
>whatever you gotta tell yourself mang.
He is right though, you feigned indifference, then fired back the instant you got a (you). Seek help, you're about as unhinged as batfleck.

>>81542505
>Why does Galadriel get all spooky and talk all that nonsense about "getting small and going to Hoboken" or whatever?
If you didn't read the books before watching the movies you have no one to blame but yourself.

>>81522774
Bruh, I like DC, but that was such a terrible argument. Stop bringing Marvel into this.

>>81542854
>My teenage cousin who is into comics more than I am asked me who he was and what he was doing.
Well then your cousins probably doesn't read many comics because time travel is one of the things Barry can do with the speed force. Hell, he even time traveled in the CW show.

>>81535966
demons paralysed from the waist down

>>81544283
>He is right though, you feigned indifference
Didn't feign shit. I don't really care about some whether or not some triggered kids don't like when people call the shitty movies they shill for shitty. I'm conflict oriented. I argue with dipshits on the internet as a means towards avoidance and real world transference and procrastination while working.
>then fired back the instant you got a (you).
Yeah. I respond to (you)s. I love how you victim complex narcissists take everything so personally, and assume anyone that fucks with you must also give a shit (or must be a paid shill).
>Seek help
implying this shit isn't therapy.

>>81544740
he knows who the flash is and what he's capable of. He did not know that the mustached mysterious man who had never been mentioned or introduced prior to that moment was the flash because he really didn't look like the flash.