>"we didn't lose the war. we abandoned it."

>>81404908
No we don't believe that, if you watched the movie you would understand that his character is purposefully over-zealous about the military

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>>81404952
I've only marathoned 19:22 minutes and seconds of it so far

>>81404908

it's true though. if it wasn't for the huge movement on the homefront causing nixon to enact hurried vietnamisation and pull troops out like crazy the war could realistically have been won

>>81405009
Yeah, because of dem commies drafted young men should totally be sent to die on the other side of the globe.

>>81405009
come on, now

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>>81404908
That's the truth. We pretty much destroyed the whole place with bombs and chemicals. Some of the pesticide used on the jungle had adverse effects on the population. It was an unpopular war that no one but the CIA and the President wanted to engage in.

>>81405057

if only you had an attention span to keep both my comment and the OPs post in mind at the same time, you'd realize that you're arguing a different point.

A friends keeps saying they sponsors most movies made in hollywood. Which is not that surprising since they probably provide a lot of the equipment.

>>81404908

It's the truth. The US pulled out most of its troops after the Peace Accords.

If the North re-invaded, the US was supposed to return, but we pretty much said fuck you and the South was overrun.

This is why I laugh when countries trust the US government. From Vietnam, to the Kurds in Iraq all the way back to Tripoli, the US government have never not fucked over an ally.

>>81404987
>marathoned
you need to be some kind of ADD spergie for calling 12 mins a marathon

>>81404908
What did we lose?

>>81404908
nam and every war since has been for artificial reasons

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>>81404908
>He doesn't realize it's just apocalypse now with big monkey

>>81405009
Except Nixon sabotaged the peace deal LBJ made so he could become president. The war was over for America before Nixon became president.

>>81404908
Nobody in America cares about Vietnam, Korea is seen in a somewhat favorable light.

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>>81406570
>He doesn't take a week to finish a 90 minute movie
wew

>>81406570
Are you NEET? How much free time do you have?

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>mfw I remember how the Viet Cong burned down Washington DC, executed President Nixon and kept me as a rape slave in the Minnesota Comfort Brigade for seven years
losing a war hurts bros

>>81406615

Ape, not munky

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yank editors can't even bring themselves to write 'vietnamese victory'

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I suppose surviving long enough for your opponent to get tired of slaughtering you after they've destroyed your country is a victory, in a way.

Lot of victories going on in modern proxy wars.

>>81404908
We killed millions of them. They never had a single tactical victory. Even Tet Offensive was a failure, but the American media lied about it. If we weren't restricted by the international and Washington bureaucracy, we could have conquered the entire country in two months and made it a new colony.
The only attribute the Viets had was perseverance, they had no great military tactics. America;s defeatist attitude lost the war.

>>81406570
But I was running at 210 km per hour

>>81410266
i thought this was a picture from a movie and got excited to see something good. where is all the good well shot movies from the journalists that were all embedded and running around for this war.

>>81405057
Are you a schizophrenic? Nobody was arguing the morality of the war.

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>>81410337

I just wonder who could be behind this post

>>81404908
but that is correct

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>amerifaggots actually believing they were winning when those chimpmonkeys were all living underground and the bombing didn't even affect them all the while ambushing you niggers on quick attacks out of their bunkers

>>81405009
>fail to win over 10 years
"I s-s-swear guys, it's a good plan, it'll work soon!"

anyone finished it?
is it doable in one session?

>>81404908

It's correct, but it's still losing the war. You can't win something by abandoning it.

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ITT: excuses

>people can look at southeast Asia in the years following the Vietnam War and claim the Vietnamese "won"

Nobody won the Vietnam War

>>81410457
>when those chimpmonkeys were all living underground and the bombing didn't even affect them all the while ambushing you niggers on quick attacks out of their bunkers
Which was horribly ineffective. Try to pay attention anon.

>>81410520
it wasn't actually America vs Vietnam
it was Democratic Vietnam supported by America vs Gommie Nam.

When the US left the gommies went in and offed couple million.

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfX7AxRuCyc

Americans are still asshurt over Vietnam to this very day.

>>81410576
it was actually The French Empire + The American Empire + The Well-Financed South Vietnamese Government vs. a bunch of rice farmers, but who's counting?

>>81410576
Don't expect commie shits to understand history. They don't care that South Vietnam existed, all they care about is shitting on anything threatening their poisoned ideology.

>>81410559
yeah truly ineffective that's why ameriniggers couldn't even push north or they'd get ambushed from below all the time

>>81405205
>Some of the pesticide used on the population had adverse effects on the jungle.*

>>81410624
You forgot Russia and China m8, but it's ok, we'll just call them "silent partners" ;^)

>>81406490
Same with Britain. Anglos are least trustworthy people on Earth.

>>81404908
>>81404987
Fucking retard

Kill yourself after reading this post >>81404952

>>81406570
>being this new

>>81410624
you're just trying to make it appear like America invaded Vietnam, when that's far from the truth.

>>81410672
China literally invaded them after the war, most of the supplies were coming in from the USSR

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>>81405205
>lose so many troops have to draft conscripts
>kill majority of thier own male civillians
>more casualties than the enemy
>more arms spent and burden on economy
>retreat from country
>Winning


face it, murica is shit at war

>>81410737
>more casualties than the enemy
Not even remotely true. Educate yourself anon.

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>>81410457
Tell it to Agent Orange faggot
>Tfw we did the same thing in the ME with depleted uranium

>Mfw the anti-Vietnamwar movement was created almost entirely by the KGB

>According to Stanislav Lunev, GRU alone spent more than $1 billion for the peace movements against the Vietnam War, which was a "hugely successful campaign and well worth the cost".[3] Lunev claimed that "the GRU and the KGB helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad".[3]

>The World Peace Council was established on the orders of the Communist Party of the USSR in the late 1940s and for over forty years carried out campaigns against western, mainly American, military action. Many organisations controlled or influenced by Communists affiliated themselves with it. According to Oleg Kalugin,

> ... the Soviet intelligence [was] really unparalleled. ... The [KGB] programs -- which would run all sorts of congresses, peace congresses, youth congresses, festivals, women's movements, trade union movements, campaigns against U.S. missiles in Europe, campaigns against neutron weapons, allegations that AIDS ... was invented by the CIA ... all sorts of forgeries and faked material -- [were] targeted at politicians, the academic community, at [the] public at large. ...[2]

>>81404908

I uninstalled the movie after this part.

>>81410876

History really does repeat itself

>>81410820
oh wow you burned a bunch of farmers on the surface with it and couldn't even destry their rice supplies, truly winning

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>>81410645

>USA, Australia, South Vietnam, France, UK, Canada, among others directly involved
>North Vietnam with some USSR support cut off from China
Vietnam Wins

>China
>Vietnam
Vietnam Wins

>Just France
>Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, some foreign support
France wins

Why is this allowed?

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>>81404908
>"we didn't lose the war. we abandoned it."
>come on, now
>do american'ts really believe this? how much influence does the amerimeme military have on hollywood?
well technically he is not wrong just like in the sandbox military conflict was won but after a while Uncle Sam got bored and pulled out

>>81410951
It's almost like there were many other factors involved besides who was participating.

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>kill everyone
>lose minimal soldiers
>basically bomb, mine, and napalm the shit out of the whole country for years
>ruin the country for generations to come
>leave

>"lol you lost!!!!!"

???

>>81410802
>several pieces of evidence presented
>one piece of proof is wrong depending on whether or not you include US allies
Oops lol looks like I win

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>>81405205
Nam?

>>81411011
>ruin the country for generations
Nam has been fine since the 90s you dimwit

That's still losing the war

America surrendered their win, they gave it up so they lost. Yes they could have won but they didn't they gave up and lost.

>>81411013
The others were anecdotes that were also true for the north vietnamese, or otherwise just didn't make sense. I picked the one that was just blatantly untrue to put under the spotlight, sorry to hurt your feelings anon.

>>81411011
>Take credit for kills by your incountry allies
>Ignore their losses
>Ignore that the group you are fighting conquer the place as soon as you leave

>>81411011
yeah, that's what it's called when you don't win. just because someone else lost a bit harder doesn't mean you claim victory

>>81411049
If by "fine", you mean a third world shithole, then yeah.

t. someone who has worked with Vietnamese in SEA and in America. The one goal in life for every Vietnamese is escaping that shithole.

>>81411011
>go to war to achieve a specific goal
>enemy goes to war to achieve different goal
>say "technically we achieved our goal" and pull out
>within weeks, enemy achieves his goal

>lol we still won for like a week

>>81411049
they are still finding mines all over the country, people have to be careful where they go because of them

>>81411093
>as soon as you leave
>literally years later
Keep twisting facts

>>81410390
>>81410337
>>81410266
>>81411141
There's something to this.

Wars don't have beginnings, ends, winners or losers anymore. It makes no fucking sense. How come we didn't see assholes in 1985 blowing themselves up in cafes while yelling "HEIL HITLER" or constant Japs ambushing and stabbing US soldiers stationed at Okinawa?

The last war that was anywhere near linear was Desert Storm and even that had a blue balls ending.

Besides Germany and Britain is there any other country worse than the US at conflicts?

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>entire air force gets shot down
>cities get firebombed into oblivion
>chain of command decapitated
>millions of your people slaughtered
>eventually the other side gets so bored of killing you they fuck off

>>81404908
The Americans weren't in the Vietnam war to win it in the first place. They were there to protect the south, and never actually crossed into nothern Vietnam.
If they had wanted to simply conquer North Vietnam, they could have done so in a matter of months. The problem was that they didn't want to start WW3, as China, and possible the Soviet Union, would have gotten involved if the US invaded the north.

Vietnam was lost due to the widespread incompetence and corruption in the South Vietnamese government. It had little to do with the US, who won literally all of the battles they were involved in, and were on the verge of breaking the North Vietnamese through airpower alone.

>>81410337
"Lied", meaning what, exactly? The lives of young, American men were being lost for a cause no one believed in. What you don't get is that who won which battle didn't matter to people because they disapproved of the war in the first place.

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>>81411281
>Britain
>bad at conflict

>>81410337
>Even Tet Offensive was a failure, but the American media lied about it.
>Launch full-scale assault on the week of a traditional ceasefire, like a sneaky little rat
>lose literally 95%+ of your forces
the Viet-Cong were a joke

>>81404908
why was this movie so shit?
why is brie larson so fucking ugly?

>>81411013
>meme arrows make them evidence

>>81411195
>How come we didn't see assholes in 1985 blowing themselves up in cafes while yelling "HEIL HITLER" or constant Japs ambushing and stabbing US soldiers stationed at Okinawa?
There were still a few Japs that refused to surrender and fought for years after the war was officially over, but yeah, they were different enemies. While the Japanese had their dogmatic beliefs and wanted an empire, it wasn't some do or die shit like muslim extremists get hyped up for. Plus America helped rebuild the place and generally treated them very favorably. Their emperor was also spared from prosecution for war crimes so that probably helped chill them the fuck out too.

>>81411281
How can the largest Empire known to man be 'bad' at conflict. They managed to take all of India with 200,000 men.

>>81411363
Why is great britain shown as a territory/protectorate?

And what the fuck is this map smoking with the western united states being under the empire? lmao

>>81411363
We're talking about modern cucked Britain. The one that hyped up fighting Argentina of all fucking places.

>>81405205
YEAH FUCK THOSE TREES UP JOHNSON

>>81411433
>How can the largest Empire known to man be 'bad' at conflict.
He's obviously referring to the UK. That empire you're talking about doesn't exist anymore lad.

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>>81411281
I nominate China as the shittiest warfighters ever
>btfo by Mongolia
>btfo by Japan
>btfo by Russia
>btfo by Britain
>btfo by themselves
>btfo by Taiwan?!

What's China's greatest martial success?

>>81405009
The war couldn't have been won without an actual invasion of the North.

>>81411500
Chinese civil war probably.

>>81411500
>What's China's greatest martial success?

when they beat all those Zerg centuries ago?

>>81410876
Source, please

>>81411511
And the US wasn't willing to do that because it'd have ended up like fucking Korea, where we push those fuckers all the way into China, and China gets pissed because now the Vietniggers are in their territory. They could've been eradicated but that's the ONLY way the war could've realistically been won. The goal of it was to prop up the unfavorable Southern Vietnamese government, but to do so the US would have had to station troops there like in South Korea.
Basically, they saw it as a money pit and GTFO

>ITT people who don't understand what nation building is

Sam El was right.

we did great in asia with a bunch of other countries and didn't need Vietnam to keep communism from spreading. S. Korea, Taiwan, and Japan were good enough.

The US and South Vietnam essentially won the Vietnam War. The Tet Offensive and later Easter Offensive were both failures that saw unsustainable losses to the North.

The problem came from Watergate and the Democrat sweep from the domestic anti-war movement. Due to the domestic pressure and congressional meddling Nixon was forced to accept a weak version of the paris peace accords that let the North Vietnamese keep units in south vietnam. Had he pressed negotiations further the north, which was in the midst of not only devastating military losses but also a falling out with Pol Pot and China, would have been forced to accept terms.

Meanwhile with Nixon out of the picture via watergate, the North was free to violate the accords and re-invade south vietnam. Just as in the Easter Offensive ARVN could have beaten back the attack, but the Congress would not authorize any sort of aid. Not even a single bullet went to south vietnam until the evacuation of Saigon began. Meanwhile, the Soviets pumped $20 billion into North Vietnam in the 1972-1975 period.

North Vietnam's political situation was falling apart by the mid-1970s, mostly because Pol Pot was fucking insane and was beginning his Chinese-backed attacks on Vietnamese. The US could have used this to their advantage had there been any will for victory.

It's basic history, not denial or revisionism.

In fact, just about every guerrilla anti-colonial war saw the "colonial" force victorious and the "resistance" crushed, but domestic pressure forced the victor to give into their conditions. The French in Algeria, British in Malaysia, Rhodesians, Portuguese in Africa, Israel in the Intifadas, and South Africa in Angola/Namibia are all examples of this. The only colonial power that was decisively defeated in the post-war world was France in Vietnam because they were retards.

>>81411763
I meant the British in Kenya, though Malaysia somewhat fits as well.

Also the Dutch in Indonesia are another good example. Not to mention the British giving up India without a fight.

>>81411606
If we're talking post sino-soviet split (i.e. late 60s) there was no chance of China invading north vietnam to save them from a US invasion. Hanoi was way too close too Moscow. The Chinese funded the Khmer Rouge precisely to counter the North Vietnamese

>>81411859
We have this cultural image of "the commies" as a united front when commies were way better at invading and killing commies than Americans ever were.

It makes any NATO bitchfights look like true love

>>81410951
lol wut, France was BTFO by Vietnam at Dien Bien Phu what are you on about. Unlike the US in Vietnam, the French fought primarily conventional forces with tanks and artillery

>>81411763
finally someone who knows what they're talking about

>>81410731
Just because animosity developed after Vietnam doesn't mean that China didn't play an integral role in supplying the North Vietnamese.

>>81410355
lmao fuck you that got me good anon

>>81411859
I meant that the NVA gets tactically pushed into China as the US blitzkriegs North Vietnam and claims more and more territory in a dedicated full-scale assault. The NVA have no choice but to retreat into neighboring countries and China's pissed because the NVA are now inside their territory. They'd get pissed at the US for forcing them there and taking(from their point of view) the US's war and forcing it into Chinese territory, making the NVA a Chinese problem now.

>>81411763
>The US and South Vietnam essentially won the Vietnam War.

If this was true
Then the US wouldn't have needed to support the South just a few years later.
But it's not true, it was never true, the north was never running out of manpower.

>In fact, just about every guerrilla anti-colonial war saw the "colonial" force victorious and the "resistance" crushed

Same situation here, the guerilla wars dragged on forever, never a hope of victory for basic fucking reasons which noone would address. If they had actually "crushed resistance", then they wouldn't have been fleeing the country.

The population of the US has been declining due to sub replacement fertility for 50+ years

Meanwhile the population of all these asian countries has tripled.

Theres only like 200 million whites in the USA

Ultimately this is the real reason for the failure of all these "colonial" wars, simple population dynamics.
Whites used to be 25% of the worlds population, 100 years ago.

>>81412459
100 years from now when everyone in the US is Latino, everyone in Canada and Australia is Asian and everyone in Europe is an Arab I wonder what global power dynamics will look like.

>>81411763
As a history major, I thank you for this well-thought post that everyone will unfortunately ignore.
I've been there several time.

>>81412158
What you are not mentioning is that during the war, China kept around 300 000 troops in north Vietnam in order to help the NVA gathering their full resources against the South. That's partly why the US didn't wanted to invade the North : their troops would have inevitably fought against the Chinese army and thus repeating a Korean scenario (albeit with higher risk considering everyone had the bomb by this point).

>>81411013
>I win

teenager straight out of reddit, go the fuck back

>>81411438
The map shows the reaches of the British Empire at it's peak. Great Britain is a territory of said British Empire, it's like how the US Virgin Islands are US territory.

>>81411011
>do all this
>withdraw anyway
>vietnam is communist now

>>81412606
Choose a better major while you are still in school. I was a history major too, and it took me most of my 20s to claw my way into a good career that I could have easily gotten into years earlier if I had picked a better major

>>81413318
No it doesn't, Britian has never owned or had as a protectorate Kamkatcha, Japan, most of Indochina, Argentina, California, Alaska, Scandinavia or Portugal. Nor has it owned any of mainland France and any of the New World simultaneously. At a geuss it's showing something like "places British military personal have fought, that are not coloured over in green, no Idea what that is though, (the Roman Empire certainly had Southern Italy and Anatolia), which explains most of the map, esecially crimea, greece and Italy, but doesn't explain things like the west of America being red rather than the east.

>>81406570
>>81406570
He said 19:22 minutes. Looks like you can't even marathon a single post.

>>81414409
I marathoned your mom last night you FUCK

>>81414446
OH SHIT WURLSTUR WURLSTUR

>>81410109
I was talking about Samuel L Jackson

>>81404908
it was an armed conflict faggot, if congress doesn't declare war it is not war. Till such moment that congress declares it as such it there for an armed intervention.

>>81414878

No you weren't, you unfunny dishrag.

>>81404908
Is there a movie about the Aussies in Veitnam? I heard they kicked ass because they knew how to have a bush war.

>>81411195
I'm pretty sure there was one crazy Japanese soldier still fighting 30 years after WW2 ended in Indonesia. He wouldn't surrender until given orders in person by a commanding officer, he thought all the leaflets and letters were fake. So they found his (now super old) CO to come and convince him to come home.

>>81410237
thats because Vietnam wasn't unified and became even more divided than ever

even today the country is not even close to socialist outside certain programs , the south is immensely superior to the north and has been like that since after the war.

China tried to push vietnam after both the french and US were done and was butt blasted to hell. It thought the vietcong that communism is a mistake and quickly changed their attitude towards western ideas

>>81410737
Didn't actually have THAT many casualties and America doesn't give a shit about winning a war, it's all just a racket for the military industrial complex. They win regardless of strategic outcome.

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>>81411011
>go into conflict with an objective of preventing a communist takeover
>fail to retain that objective

Regardless of statistics, that seems like a pretty definitive loss to me.

>>81412284
The South needed support because the north was getting massive support from the USSR. The Vietcong especially had been wiped out and didn't do much of anything in the actual conquest of south vietnam

And the guerrilla wars weren't really dragging on together, they had militarily won but continued their political pressuring until the victor gave in. There was minimal violence in Portuguese Mozambique before the socialist revolution had portugal give them independence

>>81410337

Vietnam destabilized because of our actions. We couldn't tolerate any leader that had even slight communist sympathies and so we sponsored a coup that destabilized the country and ended up accomplishing nothing.