Does it ever blow your mind how unlikable every single character

Agreed, particularly didn't give a fuck about Chakotay. I watched some of it and it was cool but there's no comfy level like there is with the other series. Also, black Vulcan, I'm not a /pol/ tard or whatever, but Africans on Vulcan? Vulcans are white guys with dark hair. Seemed bullshit to me.

>>80484798
I didn't mind that Tuvok was black, I had a much bigger issue in the fact that he was a terrible representative of Vulcans. It seems like every other episode he was losing his emotional shit, and in the rest he had a constipated look on his face all the time, seemingly desperately suppressing his urge not to kill Neelix.

I mean for Chrissake, Spock was half human and he was still twice the Vulcan that Tuvok was...

>>80484728
That's cause that show sucks and was run by producers and not writers from day one.

>>80484798
Question: How do you identify a /pol/tard?
Answer: When they insist that they aren't a /pol/tard, buuut...

>>80484798
why would vulcans be white guys? it actually makes more sense for them to be dark since vulcan is a desert shithole.

>>80484728
Tuvok is baller though

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>>80484728
>Computer, generate a universe where I'm not a 27 year old kissless virgin
>Unable to comply with your request ... virgin

>>80484798
All that would be required for black and white Vulcans is that Vulcan orbits a star like Earth does and that Vulcans live in different places, some close to the equator, others nearer the poles.

A friend of mine saw Voyager for the first time recently and asked if they put the black vulcan in for 'social justice'.

Not only was this a long time before that coin was phrased but they never mentioned his colour once because they're a fictional alien species, his colour was irrelevant.

God, I get sick of people like that who see a black actor and immediately go 'SOCIAL JUSTICE AT IT AGAIN'. Maybe they're just an actor and got the role because they're good? You ever think of that?

>Doctor
>likeable

L O L

he was the worst one

The Doctor was one of the worse. He started out ok, then he turned into some poetry sprouting fairy for some reason.

>>80484935
>It seems like every other episode he was losing his emotional shit
You are wrong. All the recurring Vulcan characters in the franchise had their little episodes where alien influence or whatever pushed them over the edge, but Tuvok was the best at playing it straight constantly. Spock was constantly suppressing a smug smirk or letting the irritation slip through.

>>80486212
Spock was half human so it's different

>>80486271
The whole point of Vulcans training their emotions away was that Vulcan emotions were extremely intense and needed to be controlled. Being half-human should have made this inherently easier for Spock, not harder.

>>80486353
wrong because he has the defective traits of being humans which are shit at controlling their emotions

so he had vulcan emotions in a flawed body not fit for them + human irrational emotions

>>80486377
>humans which are shit at controlling their emotions
Human's aren't trying to.

>>80486463
because they couldn't do it anyway, they are flawed and shit all around

>>80486505
This is just a meme. A human who can't help but sperg out like a triggered child is called a liberal. Human will is much stronger than this bullshit.

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>>80484728
Remember that time when they just murdered a guy?

>>80486505
>because they couldn't do it anyway
They don't need to. Vulcans in their natural state are basically bath-salts junkies.

>>80486565
Nothing of value was lost.

They aren't all particularly unlikeable, they're just bland.

>>80486556
Kirk kept getting people killed because of his emotional outbursts

>>80486571
Vulcans are superior and spawned multiple empires while humans were killing each other in constant wars until they were uplifted by the Vulcans

Humans suck

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i like this tsundere bitch

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Such a lust for revenge!

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WWHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

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>>80484728

I unironically like every character on Voyager except for Kes. They are one of my favourite of all the Star Trek crews.

They are much more likeable than the DS9 Ops crew who feel like paper machet characters (probably because everyone other than Armin Shimmerman and Rene Auberjonois were bad actors - leaving out guys like Andy Robinson and Marc Alaimo because they weren't in the main cast).

The Tom Paris character is a little bit cheesy but at least the actor is decent. Harry Kim isn't supposed to be anyone other than a green wing man who looks up to the captain but somehow people want to put him down for being the background type of guy he was. Chakotay's actor plays him as this very calm mannered, even-keeled guy and his character is just mauled and mangled by the main writers over and over and the times they gave his character a chance to stretch out it was in ridiculous episodes like Tattoo or the one where he puts Seven and Tom at risk for some old Earth probe. B'Elanna's great and has a personality that befits her two halves and Janeway's actress is probably in the top 5 of good actors who are a part of Trek. If you can't see the range she exhibits in careful displays of facial expressions and little subtle hints you should try watching it without the shallow blinders of the fandom biasing your thoughts on her. Kate Mulgrew admittedly played her to be flawed more than the writers did at times. And of course Picardo is spectacular as the Doctor, shouldn't have to go into it that much.

The TNG crew is great but some of the characters are so paper machet like Crusher Sr. and Crusher Jr. Sometimes Sirtis gives a good performance and Frakes can go from incredibly convincing to outright bush league. His consistency in the various TNG stories is all over the place. Geordi is a likeable character but I can only think of a couple of times where they really fleshed him out and let him be himself (the Leah Brahms episode).

That's my take OP. Love Voyager.

>>80486714
We actually got to see the sonic shower in action that one time.

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Archer iss drying tuh-oo ztop the ZZIN-DEE probe!

Everyone likes 7 of 9

I think Voyager had some good episodes.

>>80486071
>character's name is 'Tuvok'
>during the height of a black rapper's career whose name is 'Tupoc'

really got my humanoid brain spinning

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>>80488379
>blink of an eye
>unity
>survival instinct
>year of hell
>mortal coil
>eye of the needle
>latent image
>tinker doctor spy

it's filled with phenomenal stuff. voyager getting shat on is a meme

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>>80484935
>It seems like every other episode he was losing his emotional shit
>every other episode

I think you need to start rereading your posts, anon. He was one of the ideal Vulcans. He rarely every "lost his shit" to use your misused colloquialism.

This also sounds like terrible selective memory.

>>80486565
Archer murdered Sim, put him down like a Dog and nobody gives him shit for that.

>>80488509
I really liked the scene where they first encounter a fleet of Borg and they are all scared because it was like multiple cubes but they all fly past them

Can't remember the name of the episode tho

VOY still has some good episodes and great acting too

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>>80486663
>Vulcans are superior and spawned multiple empires
>multiple empires

fuckin hell, stop just making shit up
the Vulcans never had an empire or emperor, much less multiple ones
go back and watch the shows again or use the internet before you shitpost

>>80488643
sounds like Scorpion part one

>>80488643
that was Scorpion. it was a two parter and part 1 is definitely one of the top Voyager episodes

Dark frontier is another great Borg episode but after that I can only think of survival instinct as the last good one.

>>80488675
they had their own which collapsed and after that they started using their new belief system

and the Romulan empire (they are a subset of vulcans after all)

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>>80488581
>Archer murdered Sim, put him down like a Dog and nobody gives him shit for that.

Shit, I completely forget about this and no one else remembers when bringing up Tuvix. It really is a similar scenario it's just that Archer had the "humanity has an existential threat" shit hanging over his thread where as Janeway basically wanted Tuvok back and had to make an excuse.

Archer gets a pass, Janeway should be put in a prison colony

>>80488509
Living Witness was also great.

>>80488643
Scorpion. Good episodes but that completely killed the Borg in the series. They could have made an entire season where Voyager was playing an extremely high stakes game of hide and seek trying to navigate through Borg space but instead they went "We're in Borg space! Oh wait the Borg are irrelevant now". Voyagers misuse of the Borg is the biggest failing of the series, imo

>>80488717
no, there was never any mention ever of an empire in the Vulcan history or as a part of any show

The romulans are now vulcans so quit moving away the goal posts.

>>80484798
>comfy

gay detected

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>>80488767
>Voyagers misuse of the Borg is the biggest failing of the series, imo

The writers hit the reset button so many times that by season 6 you sort of expect everything to return to normal even if the entire universe collapses.

Ronald moore left the show for this very reason because he knew it was bad writing and they were afraid to take chances because UPN pretty much told them we can't do multiple episode stories and kill off actors because we want to have more stand-alones. they put their money into the future but at the same time shot holes in their investment like the short sighted suits they were. Berman was perfectly fine to go along with it too

>>80488777
but the romulans are literally the vulcans that didn't want to follow Sauron's teachings

>>80486271

>>80486353 is right in that Vulcan are violently more emotional than Human. And I'm not exaggerating about the "violently" part. But iirc this is info not in the movies and TV shows (but I may have misremembered and it was shown or mentioned somewhere). This is info I read in one of the novels. Before Surak started the philosophical movement that eventually became the current Vulcan culture, Vulcan society was an extremely violent.

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>>80488898
>Sauron's
>romulans are literally the vulcans

Wrong franchise and if you would've just said Romulans instead of Vulcans, now you've just admitted you were wrong. You said Vulcans, so why would anyone think you were talking about Romulans? When people discuss Golden Retrievers do we suddenly assume you meant Siberian Huskies?

Stop replying, please.

Tuvok and Seven are the best in Voyager.

>>80488934
>But iirc this is info not in the movies and TV shows (but I may have misremembered and it was shown or mentioned somewhere).

They talk about it all the time. Spock and Tuvok make multiple references before they found logic being a time of violence and wanton emotion that brought about a nuclear winter.

>>80486714

top quality armpits. I wonder what a sweaty kling-on woman's pits would smell like?

>>80488934
It's demonstrated in TOS

>>80488965

It's established in TOS that Romulans are offshoots of the Vulcan race. When the majority of the Vulcans accepted Surak's teachings, a group who disagreed with Surak left Vulcan and became the Romulans.

>>80488988
>>80489062

Ah, ok. So it's also mentioned in the TV shows and not just in the novels.

>>80489065
>It's established in TOS that Romulans are offshoots of the Vulcan race. When the majority of the Vulcans accepted Surak's teachings, a group who disagreed with Surak left Vulcan and became the Romulans.

You are typing with all caps and decent punctuation now so I feel like I'm talking to a different anon.

The Romulans are functionally a different race, hence my reasoning with the Husky/Golden Retriever analogy.

This anon specifically said "the vulcans had multiple empires". The Vulcans never had an empire ever except maybe in some crazy novel I've never read. The Romulans did. If he wanted to talk about empire he should've talked about Romulans who are a different species and live on a different homeworld and are very different from Vulcans.

End of story.

no guys in voyager were fapalicious ;_; not even guy in op's pic and that asian guy

>>80484935
it makes sense that blacks make for shittier vulcans, just like blacks make for shittier humans.

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>>80489045
A sort of earthy, peaty aroma.

>>80484728
I never understood voyager fans and I couldn't put a finger on it until now. You're right OP I loathed every character except the EMH he carried that show.

>>80489131

Yes, I'm not the anon you've been talking to.

Actually, Vulcans and Romulans are still the same species. Their only difference is cultural and political.

>>80484935
My main problem was that Tuvok is the only real Vulcan we ever see and he's never used for anything except to be the butt of jokes. He is a pretty good character in a show with generally bad writing (goes for most of the crew, really - none of them are super unlikeable but the episode-to-episode plotting just isn't there).

>>80486714
B'Ellana was good, she had that one episode where they go to Klingon Valhalla which is fantastic

>>80489233
>Actually, Vulcans and Romulans are still the same species. Their only difference is cultural and political.

Stick to the main point here. Vulcans never had any empires. They are not the same as Romulans. The analogy here, stay with me now, is like saying some way different tribe like the R1b haplogroup is responsible for every tribe thereafter. It's fucking stupid and you haven't are moving goalposts all over the place to where you don't even have an original argument anymore.

Are the Romans responsible for Great Britain? France? Ireland? They all share major DNA.

The answer is of course not. Romulans are aggressive and paranoid. The entire opposite of Vulcans. They have huge cranial plates and the Vulcans don't. They are more than culturally and politically different, their cognitive funcitioning is different and their evolution is separated by a nebulous period of time on two entire different homeworlds.

The more you or that anon responds with information I can corroborate from shows and shit on memory-alpha, the more you prove I'm right.

The Vulcans never had any empires. Prove me wrong without bring up a species that isn't Vulcan.

>>80489288
>My main problem was that Tuvok is the only real Vulcan we ever see
There was also Pon Farr guy.

>>80489411
You mean Pon Farr girl? T'Pol wasn't really ever used for any Vulcan anything past being essentially an amped up tsundere

>>80489459
No, there was another vulcan (Ensign Vorik) on Voyager who had Pon Farr and turned B'Ellana into a cumhungry cockgobbler.

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>>80489459
T'Pol's Pon Farr almost destroyed the NX-01 Enterprise, that's how libidinous their people are.

>>80489360

I'm >>80489233 and >>80489065 and my point in my posts are that Vulcans and Romulans are the same species. I saw in your post your erroneous statement that they're different so I replied that they're the same species. That's all the point that I intended to make and the only point that I'm interested in. You can continue your other points with that other anon, if you want.

>>80489540
>Vulcans and Romulans are the same species.

This is wrong, or at the bare minimum, not provable.

The term "ancient offshoot" actually implies they are more than just a different species but of an entirely different genus.

If you can point to me any dialogue where they EXPLICITLY state that Romulans ARE Vulcans, not only will I retract my earlier statements, I'll even apologize.
This will need more than just the phrases 'offshoot' or 'biological cousins' because I can apply the same semantics to Neanderthals and Denisovans, two ancient offshoots of the original Homo genus from Africa yet all three are different species.

Here, have at it.

>https://www.chakoteya.net

>>80489653
not him but beverly says the only differences are just their ancestors or some shit.

i think its when that one romulan needs worfs blood to live but i could be wrong.

>>80489734
shit scratch that. she bitches about too many subtle differences between the races. whatever that means.

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>>80489734

That episode was terrible and shows how the writers were quick to make shit up on the fly about biology when it served their purposes.

We are to believe a species that uses copper instead of iron as it's main element in erythrocytes can make a compatible blood donor not to mention, oh yeah, they evolved in entirely different star systems.

I guess all that shit can be handwaved with pick related.

In fact, yeah, Romulans and Vulcans are the same species, but so are Cardassians and Humans and Klingons and.. you get my point.

I also hated the Progenitor storyline because it was just a cure for fan autism to say "hey they're all humanoid because of these proto-changeling looking guys!"

>>80484728
I liked species 8472 tho.

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>>80486555
the Tholians were one of the most alien species they ever came up with, just perfectly alien

i loved that they existed in some 200 degree suit in their ships

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>>80484728
>how unlikable every single character in Voyager is
Op confirmed for being a faggot, but of course that goes without saying.

>>80486071
>Not only was this a long time before that coin was phrased

You're young. Social Justice AND Social Justice Warrior predate Voyager by a long time.

SJW has been used in a pejorative sense for at least 25 years. It's only more widespread now because of the resurgence of nationalism in the developed world.

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Sounds like you need a bowl of my Leeola Root stew crewman!

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>>80490351
>tfw you write in a ridiculous character just to have a hot girl in a skintight suit and she ends up being the best character in the show

>>80490571
do you mean tpol kira or deanna ?

>>80490386
>SJW has been used in a pejorative sense for at least 25 years.

No, it really hasn't and before 2012, the term was a hardly even known about.

>Katherine Martin says that the term switched from primarily positive to overwhelmingly negative around 2011, when it was first used as an insult on Twitter.[1] The same year an Urban Dictionary entry for the term also appeared.[1]

>>80490571
Neelix got better when he stopped being a pedo and just a friend of everyone (somewhere around his near death experience)

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>>80490611
Two out of nine

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>>80490681
>Implying

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>>80489535
>watch Enterprise
>Reed is literally the only good character

>>80490722
Reed is some weird nihilistic psychopath. What can I tell you about Reed?
>likes Pineapple
>likes weapons technology
>introvert
>likes T'Pol's "bum"
>can actually fight

odd how all I had to do was type that out to convince myself that he's a sort of mysterious and vulnerable character that is very likeable

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>>80490652
>2001

>>80490882
Actually, it's usage goes back to the 90s, you haven't disproven my point about mainstream usage and "Gamergate" which I'll link the wikipedia now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior

Under "pejorative use" it discusses it's modern mainstream history that begins with a tweet in 2011.

Picking a cherry doesn't count.

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>>80486753
mfw this guy did anime/jrpg dubs

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>>80490882
>>80490949
>tfw justice is a negative term
>tfw this implies the strive for injustice
Really makes you think...

>>80490949
> you haven't disproven my point about mainstream usage

I don't have to because that's not the point I was arguing you daft cunt. Show me where I said SJW was ONLY used negatively.
I said it has been used in a pejorative since for decades, not that is been EXCLUSIVELY or OVERWHELMINGLY used as a pejorative.

Are you able to parse the different meanings there?

You didn't prove shit and your argument was a non-sequitar because I never claimed it was only used negatively.

It's not cherry picking, it's proving that it has been used negatively for years (at least literally a decade) since 2011.

You said (if it was your post)
>Not only was this a long time before that coin was phrased

I demonstrated that you were wrong and that the phrase existed long before the show, and was being used negatively before the show aired (though not exclusively used in a negative sense)

Try responding to what I wrote, instead of responding to what you read.

>>80491018
Actually, the term "social justice" is what is wrong, because it implies there is something wrong that the normal concept of "justice" doesn't address.

>>80484728

Fuck off, Seven was my first ever waifu.

>>80491085
>I don't have to because that's not the point I was arguing you daft cunt. Show me where I said SJW was ONLY used negatively.

I quoted you but was only talking about it's mainstream usage, not the connotations applied to it.

Mainstream, it was practically non-existant before 2012. You haven't proven me wrong and picking cherries doesn't prove you right.

No one here, that I've read, was arguing that it didn't exist prior to Voyager, just that it was a highly niche term. In fact, you could argue that it still is niche and hasn't truly reached the mainstream yet but I wouldn't since it's finally reached that point in colleges now.

>It's not cherry picking, it's proving that it has been used negatively for years (at least literally a decade) since 2011.

You showed one link. I could show you a 1,000 links of the term Nazi being used positively.

I also wasn't that guy you quoted, the original person you were arguing with.

So what is your argument? That it was used negatively for quite some time? Are you arguing that it has been mainstream before 2012? I need an adult.

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>>80490722
I miss Reedposting