>Horse riding warriors >Don't use bows What gives?

>>79615892
They do use bows though

>>79615935
>massive charge with spears
>B-But the movies show one soldier with a bow

>>79615892
>horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth
Oh boy. Wait till you hear about armored knights

>>79616034
Did you stop watching right after that? There's literally groups of them drawing their bows to take down the oliphants.

>>79615892
>fantasy settings aren't realistic

Holy Christ dude you might be onto something.

>>79615892
There's literally tons of horse archers shown in the movie, are you daft?

>>79616045
Mounted knights got btfo by Mongol horse archers repeatedly.

>>79616151
And then a thousand years of improved armor happened

>>79616092
How did that work out for them?

>>79616243
>work out
heh

Mongols were only effective on open steppe. They got blown the fuck out every time the terrain didn't suit them.

>>79616215
Armor was already on its way out around 400 years after the Mongols invaded Europe thanks to a little thing called guns.

>>79616243
Not so great because horse archers are useless as fuck

>>79615892
>there was literally no way to counter them.
It's called a shield

>>79616292
>Before gunpowder
>a little thing called guns

Horse archers get fucked when you put a huge stone wall in front of them
Have you heard of a mystical and magical land called Hungary?

>>79616345
Doesnt work when you take the bait and run after the "fleeing" mongols

>>79616397
>Have you heard of a mystical and magical land called Hungary?

literally where country

>>79616397
>Hungary
Irrelevant

>>79616397
>mystical and magical
>literally naming your country after not having enough to eat

Topkek

>>79615892
The huns/mongols middle earth equivalent is orcs or humans that served Sauron or morgoth (the Valar, not the movie only orc general) and we saw bow cavalry used by orc warg riders. while the rohirrim coulda been great, they just didn't have a smart guy like you to tell em.

>>79616397
>>79616491
Fun fact: The country is actually called Hungry since they were invaded so often and besieged so much that the population was pretty much always starving

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>>79616424
>>79616437
>>79616491
>>79616557
>Hungary couldn't singlehandedly-destroy America in a week
TOP KEK BURGERSHIT!!!
Oh believe you me, us Hungarians are ITCHING for a war with America. We will fucking ANNIHILATE your dirty country. There wouldn't be a square meter of American soil that has running water, electricity, or petrol that isn't on fire, once our airforce and navy is done bombarding your defenseless country. Then, our army boys would swoop in, raping your women, and killing EVERY burgershit shit they see. When Hungary's done with you, we will have committed acts of genocide. Of course no one is gonna do shit about it

>>79616557
>amerishart education

>>79616397
Yeah, Hungary got their shit kicked in even with the help of the Holy Roman Empire until the stone fortifications were made. Which also only makes OP's question that much more valid though since the "good guys" in LOTR had the more advanced western Euro inspired tech so they wouldn't have run into the same problems the Mongols did with their shoddy tech that couldn't get past the stone fortifications.

>>79617204
>
>
>

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>>79617374

Fuck off Khergit shill. Swadia 4 lyfe.

>>79616397
Huge stone walls get fucked if you put horse archers in front of them. Have you heard of a country called China?

>>79618935
Yeah, they went around the walls.

>>79616658
magyar cigány

>>79618966
So you're agreeing with him

>>79615892
>there was literally no way to counter horse archers

lol? what are guns?

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Horse Archers are a complete myth. All the mobility in the world means shit when 2,000 Imperial Legion Solders just walk up to your city and pillage it.

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>>79618081

>>79618999
>guns
>before gunpowder

do explain

>>79619015
Just use plasma or lasers lol

>>79619006
>city
>nomads
>imperial legions in Eurasian Steppes
?

>>79619009
>84+12
>implying it's a threat for my 120 swadian knights and 40 merc cavalry
boi.

>>79615892
War and history of warfare is not Age of Empires you fucking faggot. Just because you played some war games on your mom's PC doesn't make you a military historian.

>>79619006
Can't pillage what you can't catch. The Mongols were deadly because they were extremely fast. Each rider has a couple of horses so the army can move at full gallop all the way. If your horse is tired with your ass then chage horse. Plus they mostly ride on mares so the riders get sustenance from horse milk (or they cut the horse a bit and drink a bowl of its blood in emergencies, this doesn't bother the horse)

They cover so much ground that everyone thinks their numbers are limitless, which is not. Indeed, there weren't that many Mongols, not like the "endless horde" we're led to believe. They just cover so much ground so fast and each rider having multiple horses, they seem limitless.

The horse archers thing is just icing on the cake.

>>79615892
>there was literally no way to counter them

There was: Archers. A man on a horse is a very big and target .

>>79615892
>Before gunpowder, horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth, there was literally no way to counter them.
You're from /his/ right? You're meming right? Right??

>>79619214
no he's from /civ5/ generals

>>79619006
Good thing their cities are 3000 miles away

>>79619041
rekt

>>79619199

big and easy*

>>79619199
>>79619256
Also fast and mobile.

>>79616151
>Mounted knights got btfo by Mongol horse archers repeatedly
No, they didn't. Russian "knights" are extremely different compared to their Western European counter-parts.

>>79618995
Can't go around the walls if the walls enclose a space.

Horse archers usually defeat an army who hasn't faced them before or is overconfident in a land that is mostly stretching plains.

>>79619296
>Also fast and mobile

yeah they were also in big fucking groups, war archery wasn't about hitting individual targets with personal accuracy as much as it is putting a shit tonne of arrows way over there where the enemy is

And an archer on foot can use a more powerful bow

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>/tv/ talking /his/

Jesus Christ

>>79619416
yeah cause its so much different from /his/ talking /his/

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>>79619463
but at /his/, history is our specialty

>>79619463
It's not really but I was hoping that particular cancer strain would not spread here.

>>79619015
saruman had gunpowder retard he made a bomb

>>79615892
>no way to counter HA
Lurk more, faggot.

>>79619634
Lockdown Prowler counters HA, and everything else in the game.

>>79619006
>An inscription thought to be from 1226 was found on a stone stele in Nerchinsk, Siberia. It may have said: "While Chinggis Khan was holding an assembly of Mongolian dignitaries, after his conquest of Sartaul (East Turkestan), [Chinggis's nephew] Esungge shot a target at 335 alds (536m)."[4]

>In the historical novel "Khökh Sudar" Injinashi, the Mongolian philosopher, historian and writer, imagines the competition amongst all Mongolian men in about 1194-1195: five archers each hit the target three times from a distance of 500 bows (1 bow = at least 1 metre).

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/mens-archery-farthest-accurate-distance

Apparently they could shoot twice as far and just as accurate as today's world record with a modern bow and arrow? Nah, stories about Mongol bows are obvious bullshit tales they made up.

>>79619125
implying your swadian knights are shit to my nord huscarls nigga BEST FOOTMEN

>>79616395
Are you an idiot, when do you think the Mongols invaded?

>>79615892
maximum power level is archived by realizing that while mongols used horse archers to harass their enemies during pursuits, retreats and deployment they actually defeated theyr enemies with spears and shock cavalry

>>79615892
>cavalry using crossbows is never depicted

That's the real shame.

>there was literally no way to counter them.

fuck off

>>79615892

Didn't cavalry archers use tiny ass bows that were only accurate to like 50 feet? Most horse archery videos on Youtube have guys shooting tiny ass bows at very close targets while they ride past. That sounds very counterable.

>>79620282
Rhodians clearly have the best footmen, you northern savages

>>79616151
the mounted knights were only BTFO because of tradition and tactics that they refused to adapt to counter the Mongol archers.

>>79620216
I just looked up the "World Archery conditions" rules and it says:

22.2.1.1. The peak draw weight shall not exceed 60lbs.

That's a joke weight for a warbow. The English war bows could be up to 180lbs for instance triple that. It isn't hard to believe at all they could make a shot at that distance considering the Mongols made the best warbows in history using techniques mostly lost to history and fired by warriors who were the culmination of an entire society's effort.

>>79616397
CHINESE SIEGE ENGINEERS

>>79618966
Not really. One garrison commander decided to open the gates and let the Mongols in. At the time, there was an internal Rebellion in China and the Commander was on the losing side. My memory might be wrong though.

>>79615892
why is high fantasy so fucking obsessed with plate armor? hardly anybody in history actually wore plate armor.

Who /dan carlin/ here

The mongols under Genghis and Ogedei khan were literally nigh on invincible, and rekd pretty much everyone

The only reason Europe as a whole wasn't conquered by the Mongols was because after destroying the armies of eastern europe, the khan died from illness so they all had to go back to Mongolia for the kurultai

>>79616397
the Timurids frequently employed cannon, it is not as if Mongols were incapable of sieging cities either they ran through China and fucked over some of the largest walled cities on the planrt at that time.

>Muh Horse Archers

A decent Phalanx or Testudo would slap your shit

Are you fucking artistic

>>79621748
You don't seem to understand warfare anon. If one army is morem obile than another, it doesn't have to commit to a field battle. While your boys are in phalanxes or testudos the horse archers are 8 miles away sacking Rome or Athens after turning your supply caravan into pin cushions

>>79621741
>The only reason Europe as a whole wasn't conquered by the Mongols was because after destroying the armies of eastern europe, the khan died from illness so they all had to go back to Mongolia for the kurultai

This tarded meme will never die

>>79621860
So explain the non meme version then you fat fuck

>>79621942
>proper castles everywhere
>poor terrain
>not enough grazing land

there now fuck off

>>79616151
actually mogols didnt win every fight. the point of them being invincible was that they ALWAYS came back with even greater numbers.

also the first decisive and final victory against mogol horde was delivered by mamluks who fielded exactly a heavy armored rideres, preety much middle eastern knights. after that fight mongols for the first time ever didnt come back for a rematch.

>>79621942
supply lines stretched thin, they needed huge areas of grasslands for their horses and were dependent on the weather
the geography of europe wasn't in their favour
infighting
and contrary to popular belief they also actually lost men in battle and were wearing thin

>>79615892
>Before gunpowder, horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth, there was literally no way to counter them.

Lol wat?
Kill the horse, the archer is absolutely fucked.

>>79616397
mongols sieged fuckload of cities thanks to chinese siege engineers.

also hungary was invaded simultaneously with poland and mongols completely blown both of them apart. the only reason they werent conquered was because great khan had died and according to tradition they ALL had to go back to Qaraqorum for funerals and choosing of new khan.

>>79619337
Russian knights were just as capable as western, both in gear and skill. Mounted knights are a shitty counter to Mongol cavalry for two reasons. 1) The Mongols had their own heavy cavalry 2) Heavy cavalry was used to crush infantry (see hammer & anvil), not chase after anyone. The horses, destriers, that were used by heavy cavalry were not particularly fast nor nimble, but they were sturdy and strong as fuck to deal with all the armor the knight wore, and possibly the horse itself as well.

>>79621080
The bows were small but incredibly strong. These days weaker bows are used in competitions, but Mongol composite bows were not a joke, and could just fine rival any longbow. In fact, they were actually superior in both craftmanship and effectiveness.

>>79621364
You are talking about a completely different thing. Sports archery is hardly comparable to historical archery. The maximum range of historical longbows is under 400m. Additionally, different arrows are used for different distances. Heavier for closer range warfare, and flight arrows for personal showing off and competitions.

>>79620216
See the previous paragraph. Turks have been known to achieve distances over 800m in their competitions, it is in no way implausible. Special bows and special arrows that were not used in combat, yes, but still. Modern distance shooting competitors can shoot for over 1000m, but that is really high tech stuff.

t. Historical reenactor, I own and have made several bows myself

Sure... but the enemies they were fighting weren't humans

>>79616397
the mongs have siege engines. they also wallop plague ridden corpses into cities kickstarting the yurop black plague pandemic.

>>79622084
he's right, the biggest empire on the planet was due to the invention of the bow
horse archers were god tier, because you never would "kill the horse" because they'd ride away

>>79622266
>because you never would "kill the horse" because they'd ride away

You're stupid, you know that?

>>79622266
>horse archers were god tier, because you never would "kill the horse" because they'd ride away

WHAT

>>79619337
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Legnica

>>79616397
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)
fucking education is so bad here

>>79616243
DELET THIS

>>79622339
>>79622297

Not him but i mean if you have a fucking horde of archers who can keep their distance as well as move at great speeds (relative to unmounted soldiers) and outmanouver you while just twanging arrows into your tight formations slowly whittling you down, how the fuck are you going to kill their horses in the first place?

I mean you too can fire arrows, but you would need extremely well trained bowmen to hit riding targets, and horses aren't as clumped up as normal units so volley tactics would be far less effective, and even then those riders whose horses died would probably just get bailed out by their mates before your infantry can get in there to kill them.

>>79622041
Mongols were mostly outnumbered though also the mamelukes were literally mostly turkics which also fought as horse archers.

Reminder that england was won the most wars in history out of any country or empire

>>79616243

They brought down one of the elephants with them.

>>79616151

Arabs and Russians wrecked Mongol horse archers.

Euros lost against mongols because hey focused entirely on heavy cavalry. That's why the got slaughtered.

>>79622664
What's "England"? You talking about the Caliphate of New Pakistan?

>>79622739
Still mad about 1812 I see

>>79622696
>Arabs
The Mongols wiped out a superpower of the time, and fucked Baghdad so bad the region still hasn"t recovered.

>Russians
The Mongols invaded Russia in winter and steamrolled the divided Russian states.

>>79622696
>Arabs and Russians wrecked Mongol horse archers

no arabs and russian wrecked mongol horse archer AFTER mongol horse archer ASSRAPED them hundred times over.

basically there came a point when people started using their heads and come with intelligent solutions. before that moment mogols might as well been demons from hell.

>>79622785
Shouldn't you be at the call to prayer, Muhammad?

>>79616397
>Hungary
>the land where the Huns settled after raping everyone
>with Horse Archers

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>>79622831
>t.60% white country

>>79615892
charging was more efective on that fight

>>79622130
>Mongol composite bows were not a joke, and could just fine rival any longbow. In fact, they were actually superior in both craftmanship and effectiveness


>if its from Asia its magic meme

>>79623078
>the war of 1812
too soon, bro

>>79623296
probably folded a million times over

>>79622812
This. Hungarians, Arabs and Russians repelled the Mongols at the end, but after a long time and a long streak of assrapes.

>>79623048
There is little of asian in hungarian genetics.
Why they speak hungarian is quite baffling to me.
Is even more striking than brits speaking english or "turks" in turkey. In that case, is well explained by dominance, but there is a clear genetic introgression.

Is like Bulgarians. They are Turks but actually slavs but actually turks but actually slavs. Ignoring all the thracian of else background.
Völkerwanderung must have been an hell of a party.

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>cavalry
>archers
>mounted archers

>>79623541
The romans were countered by Parthians. Guess what was one of their strong points.

>>79623296
>>79623413
>he doesn't know about recurve bows

>>79623499
>Why they speak hungarian is quite baffling to me.
The same reason Spanish talk Latin and the French and Brits dont speak Gaelic
People convert on the language of the conqueror to climb the social ladder

>>79616151
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary
Not after 1240, they weren't

>>79623662
Fine, but Huns, apparently, did not set in great number, or did not rape that much.
Either that, or many people there were slavs and previous settler that identified as Huns in the same way one can identify as an attack helicopter.

>>79623696
>did not set in great number
Doesnt really matter

>>79621676
It looks cooler than a bunch of peasants in mail.

>>79621653
Wrong dynasty, faggot

>>79623578
>The romans were countered by Parthians
no they werent. it was one lucky battle and so the meme was born

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>its an enemy army teleports around you episode

>>79619006
They have to get to the city first, which didn't always work out too well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

longbowmen counter horse archers anyways

>>79621748
Testudo doesn't work out so good if they also have shock cavalry.

>>79616397
>China has biggest stone wall in the world.
>gets btfo

Your point anon

>>79623296
What? A longbow is made from a single piece of wood, if you wanna get fancy maybe two. A composite bow has multiple woods, horn, bone etc, and is curved into a shape that maximizes its efficiency. Originally the techniques were born out of necessity/practicality, as one of the defining features of steppe is the lack of motherfucking wood.

I can craft a longbow in half a day, but a composite bow may take months.

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>>79616151
>>79622041

>1000 years ago Mongol hordes terrorized half the fucking planet with massive numbers
>check out Mongolia on wikipedia
>entire country population: 3,000,000

??????????????????

>>79616397

The fact that it's called Hungary eludes from that time it was conquered by the Huns.

>>79615892
>Using literally incorrectly and unironically twice

fuck off tween

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>Implying the could afford the bow taxes.

>>79615892
Aryans cannot into horse archery.
That has always have been the art of Turks/Mongols.

Horse archery is incredibly difficult and many equestrian cultures never developed it.

>>79627185
Scythians, Saka, and Parthians say you're a aggot.

>>79627270
OK, you got me there, forgot about them. Also Carrhae was pretty rad.
However how did all the Aryans got BTFOd by Turkmongols to the point that entire Central Asia became Turk?

>>79627572
>However how did all the Aryans got BTFOd by Turkmongols to the point that entire Central Asia became Turk?
I think it's a combination of the most martial ones conquering sedentary peoples and settling down plus trade routes shifting so grain from around the Black Sea wasn't as important anymore. Plus the Romans and Sassanids wearing each other down into nubs before getting fucked by the Arabs.

>>79627670
>>However how did all the Aryans got BTFOd by Turkmongols to the point that entire Central Asia became Turk?
Cossacks were in the process of taking it back for Indo-Europeans before the tsarists and commies fucked it all up.

>>79615892
Being a good horse archer comes from it being a lifestyle rather than something that is occasionally practiced. Being a mongol was literally being a horse archer, it was their entire life. No amount of training as an adult will catch up to that.

>>79625660
A massive amount of Chinese still have Mongol heritage because of history and it is said that Genghis himself has like a shitton of offspring because of how many women he fucked.

Try suggesting in China that they're part mongol and they'll fucking kill you.

>>79625660
Mongolia is shit land. Why do you think everyone left?

>>79616557
Why would you go on the internet and tell a lie like that?

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>>79615892
Only the mongols made extensive use of horseback archers.

>>79628474
Completely wrong. Shut up.

>>79628474
>Who are the Huns?

>>79628589
>Who are the Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Hepthalites Scythians, Sarmatians, Arachosians, Parthians, Sassanids, Saka, Dahae, Sogdians, Bactrians, Magyars, 500 different varieties of Turks etc etc etc

>>79616243
They won the battle and killed over half the oliphaunts before the ghosts cleaned everything up? Did you even watch the movie? Every rider was armed with spear, hand weapon, and bow. Each weapon was used many times throughout the movies

>>79628589
didnt huns use a more light javelin weaponry

>>79627572
Huns kicked too much ass with their stirrup-based cavalry. The steppes never really stopped being Asiatic dominated after that.

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>>79618081
>mfw I'm behind 200 rhodok crossbowmen in the woods
get fucked

>>79628474
I saw a video once about them holding 3 arrows in their hand so they can shoot them like a semi automatic weapon or some shit.

>>79616151
>Some starving slavs and an outpost of knights got overwhelmed with hundreds of thousands of cavalry
>DUDE HORSE ARCHERS LMAO
Europeans have been fighting horse archers since the begining of history til Russia had enough of steppe niggers

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God I love this shit. Medieval settings are best anways.

>>79631519
As long as no hocus pocus is involved

>>79625660
Yeah and Greece was literally a cradle of civilization, science, philosophy and they are bunch of lazy niggers nowadays

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>>79631632
I like it anyways

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>> Btw there's no hocus pocus in these shots I think. Not sure, but I think they could be pre-

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>> 79631953
>>79631632

maybe pre-vfx

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ok nah, not sure, maybe post... whatever

>>79631953
House Giantsbane, has a nice ring to it.