>"lol sorry daughter, you're gonna have a shitty

>>79322514

She had to have the kid and it had to die so that she could save the Aliens & Humanity.

>>79322514

6/10 only because of ginger princess.

>>79322514
She couldn't change the future.
Idk why tho

>>79322557
>a human being had to be born and die horribly and prematurely so some woman could remember the term "zero-sum game" at a critical moment during negotiations
why didn't she just ask the Chinese dude at the ceremony in the future? an international strategist would certainly know his terminology. the phone call was more important than her remembering some technical term during her hero speech anyway.

>>79322514
just cause she was going to die young didn't mean her life wasnt fulfilled, you can't assume her life was painful and shitty just because it was short

Yeah I was appalled. I was like.. so you still choose to have the kid and not even tell the poor fucking dad??? Just adopt you cunt!

>she can't change it

Okay then the movie's point is even though she can see the future it's all prewritten destiny and there is no free will.

>>79322632
she didn't even try
I mean Interstellar is a pile of Spielbergian schmultz but at least Cooper is a believable character emotionally in that he does stupid, crazy shit to try and save / get back to his daughter even when it defies sensible logic

Amy Adams' character doesn't even *try* to test whether the universe she's in is deterministic in nature or whether the fat she's seen can be avoided. fuck, for all she knows, the aliens showed her her future daughter dying as a warning as to what *could* happen like "hey, you should probably take her for regular checkups or invest your rewards for this alien language stuff in cancer research" or something, but the moment she reaches ~self-actualisation~ she totally gives up on even attempting to save her daughter's life because muh Nietzschean Affirmation or something.

fucking Asians and their melancholy fatalist bullshit, man

>>79322650
No it was trust me. I personally know 2 girls who died of cancer before 18 and one who died of cystic fibrosis.

>>79322714
I mean my problem wasn't even that alone, it was that she didn't even care to try

for all she knows the in-film reality is a multiverse and all sorts of options are still possible but she just handwaves it to make her own life more profound and shit

>>79322741
this, I went to high school with a girl who became terminally ill a few years in, even though I hardly knew her it was fucking horrific and gave me a paralysing fear of death and severe illness for years afterwards

>>79322514
it was something to do with 'suffering makes you more human lol', as far as I could tell
aka bullshit people with shitty lives tell themselves to feel better

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Villeneuve to maybe clear things up for you autists:

>"The idea is that the heptapods see life like a [scripted] play. They know what will happen, so they have the choice — either they do it bored to death, or they embrace it and try to be at their best, like an actor on a stage."

>>79322836
>fatalism
absolutely disgusting

it'd have helped if they'd made it explicit that the world was deterministic in the film but yeah, fair enough, if we take that as a given the ending makes more sense in its own terms.

still a shit-tier life philosophy though

But Abbott is death process.

They knew that was coming.

Should they have not bothered to allow Abbott to live at all since he was going to die prematurely and painfully anyway?

>>79322514
>testing whether the universe they live in is deterministic

Well she does say way after the girl was born that the argument with the father was because she made the wrong choice. That makes it not deterministic, which should make this lifespan-long future sight kind of unreliable at best.

>>79322729
>she didn't even try

The only choice for "trying" was not to have the daughter at all or to wait a couple of months and have an another kid.
But the point is she already deeply loves her daughter (just like her daughter loves her) and thinks the moments they had together are worth living for.

How could she else "save her life" other than to not have her at all?

>>79322896
Renner isn't shown during the opening either, suggesting that the breakup did happen/was going to happen etc. in the vision the aliens showed her, not just in the later iteration of her living it out

>>79322632
Because it already happened, because the whole point is she's no longer seeing time as a linearly, so future events will have happened for her before events in the past.

why make a separate thread for every autistic question
there are currently three Arrival threads active in the catalog, which could've easily been one

check the fucking catalog

She hasn't had the kid yet. Put your self into her shoes.
She will treat the kid like a part of her work. This is why Renner left her, Amy Adams is a heartless lying, manipulating bitch who only cares about doing what she wants to do, like you.

>>79322514

That's women for you

>>79322909
invest heavily in cancer research? she's probably batshit rich after decoding an alien language and stopping WWIII. treatments for cancer have improved incredibly over the past 50 years because of investment and research.

whether or not she should have had the kid at all relies on the more subjective ethical point on whether you believe all lives are worth living, etc., but even aside from that there's thing such as the above she could have done to better her daughter's chances in the case that the future could be changed. it's not like she has anything to lose by trying, even if things turn out the same in the end.

Her daughter already existed in her mind so from the mother's perspective she would have been killing her own daughter terminator style. Sure she was going to die but she would also be loved and happy etc up to the point of her death.

I like to imagine that before she actually decides to have the kid she "remembers" a future scene where she gets the daughter to choose either to have never been born or born with cancer and the kid chose to live,

>>79323001
>she's probably batshit rich after decoding an alien language and stopping WWIII

Yeah, she would be lauded as the saviour of the World and that book she wrote would sell more than The Bible.

There is no way she is just living some hum drum life with her timebomb daughter as depicted in the flash forwards.

>>79322865
>still a shit-tier life philosophy though

So what is a god tier philosophy according to you?

>>79323001
Maybe she even did try, but there is no need to show a scene where she is trying to find a cure for cancer or anything like that because that's not what the movie is about.

>>79323019
yeah except they never showed or suggested such a scene
actually having something like that in the film would have made the ending okay, like, fair enough, give the kid some agency, but the way it actually goes down it's more like the kid is just a pawn in some game-of-life her mother is playing.

not to mention the opening of the film where she screams "I HATE YOU" at Amy Adams presumably for telling her what's gonna happen to her, like how can you fuck someone up like that telling them how/when they're gonna die and that you were the only one who had any possibility of trying to change it and you just didn't bother to try, and call yourself a responsible parent? the whole ethic of the movie smacks of shirking responsibility.

>>79323115
You don't know that she didn't try. Honestly we barely know anything about the future plot other than what's explicitly told to us

And I thought the "I hate you" was standard teenager bullshit that made the daughter more relateable. It's weird because if they threw the daughter in there it wouldn't have been a twist and all her scenes would feel shoehorned in at the end but with her as an abstract concept it ends up pretty unsympathetic

>>79323067
something that incorporates elements of Nietzsche's appreciation of life without the fatalistic/eternal recurrence elements

personally I believe the act of living is in struggle (death being the more natural state in the first place) and that even when the odds are against you, the ultimate satisfaction comes from knowing you've tried your absolute hardest

when you give up on the thrill of the chase you just become one of those Buddhist monks who starves themselves to death, or some kind of Schopenhauer-esque pessimist, absence of will is a terrible spiritual (in the secular sense) sickness imo

I thought the point was time wasn't linear so she didn't have a short life

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>>79323204
>Not accepting the futility of existence and patiently waiting for death

fucking normies

>>79323239
Nah I don't think you can see past your own death. So even if they taught her the language she'd have a really short timeline to jump around in

Abbott is death process
:(((

>>79323239
lol not from her own perspective
from Amy Adams's perspective maybe, but from the daughter's it was

>hey mom
>hey daughter, guess what, you're gonna die in like a year and it's going to be horribly painful and drawn-out, just letting u know lol
>wtf mom what about school and all my hopes and dreams, I haven't even had the chance to feel love yet

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such original

much creative

wow


it's an album cover from 2010

Reminder to OP and other children that parents often gamble on hereditary illnesses, this isnt dissimilar.

>>79323337
>parents often gamble on hereditary illnesses

That's fucking sick, I shall stick to horses.

>>79323337
yeah, OP here, I actually have a hereditary condition that commonly leads to much higher chances of terminal throat and esophageal cancer, as well as some other genetic shittery

guess what? I'm not having kids unless gene editing gets to a stage where it's a viable solution, because I'm responsible and don't want to force a shitty quality-of-life on some poor kid just so I can play parent

it's a genetic anomaly that causes development of Barrett's Esophagus at around puberty, btw, once it develops, 0.5% chance of throat cancer is added to a baseline 15% for every year you live, and throat cancer has an 85% mortality rate. I'm not thrusting that onto someone who doesn't have the choice whether or not to be born.

>>79323461
>and throat cancer has an 85% mortality rate

And life has a 100% mortality rate.

>>79322714
>Okay then the movie's point is even though she can see the future it's all prewritten destiny and there is no free will.

that's almost always the implication of these movies, Hollywood just pussies out because it's not tinteresting enough a concept for the average viewer.

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>>79323461
>I'm not having kids unless...

As if you have choice?

Hmmmmmm?

>>79323315
literally Enso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ens%C5%8D

>>79323524
>dying peacefully in your sleep at 80
>dying in agony that no painkillers or opiates on the planet can stop at <35
oh jeez I wonder which I'd rather pick

I can only assume you've never been around someone who is dying of cancer, anon

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>>79323718
>>dying peacefully in your sleep at 80

How many people actually get to pass away that way?

Is a heart attack, cancer or stroke really peaceful?

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>>79323571
kek

>>79323706
cool. most results on google images are just circles though, no twirly squiggly stuff

>>79322514
The point is that everything is already decided, knowing the future only means you know what will happen not that the you can change it.
It's how things are meant to be and how things will go.

>>79322514

I haven't seen the film but I've read the short story it's based on.

It becomes clear that she can't change her perception of how time flows, but she changes her perception of how she recalls events. Events are no longer recalled chronologically, but as linked actions. This is because she starts to think in Heptapod B (that part is really the only bullshit part in the book). So new events are being added to her memory as they happen. This means that her daughter has already lived and died when she recalls the story.

I'm not sure why they chose to use future tense when describing the daughter, however. that did not make sense. I would have gone with present tense for the scenes with the daughter, but hey whatever.

Don't think I need to go see the film desu.

>>79322514
DUDE CIRCLES AND EMOTIONS LMAO

Mediocre film that is defended to the death by autists on here

>>79324455
>Mediocre film that is hated to death by autists on here

ftfy

>>79322514
yeah it really bothered me a lot too

I was also bothered by the fact that her knowing the Chinese General's phone number because she saw it in the future was the only time in the entire film that there was a non-causal relationship between events. That made it feel way too much like a plot device.

>>79324556
they demonstrated it a little while earlier when she can't remember the phrase 'zero-sum game' and asks her daughter in the future about it, so it wasn't totally out of the blue and contrived

I just saw it and wanna share my thoghts. Kinda agree with op though. My main issuie with this:

>By the logic of the movie hectapods know the funure
>by the Shang scene it is clear that you can change the future by actions in the past and vise versa
>Hectapods arrive to give information to shape their future

That hypotheticaly leads to the following scenario: hectapods arrive 3000 years after and face equal opposition so they had to arrive now to prevent it.

So by the logic of the movie you have to think beyound time. If they are not hostile now, its quite likely they could be hostile in the future. Her daughter's life kinda teaches us that. Enjoy your happy childhood and when death comes- just accept it. So you gotta think how your enemy thinks, if they use their main advantage now its kinda fishy. Why couldn't they arrive 3000 from now, meet another amy adams and teach her thir langage and ask for "help" right away?

sorry for bad english I am Russia

>>79324680

quck summury. They know that in 5k a.d. we fuck them up, so they arrive 2k a.d, find an emotional bitch, teach her how good hectaphilisophy is so we meet them with open arms. Fucking illigal aliens.

>>79324680
>sorry for bad english I am Russia

Made me smile thanks anon

>>79322636
When she 'remembers' the future her mind is still on the past

>>79322514
She got to suck Amy Adams tits and get tickled by her. What more could you ask for in life?

the aliens came because they need our help 3000 years from now, i.e. they want to change their future.

yet Lois Lane does not want/do anything to change the future to save her child.

also she get the phone number from the future which contradicts this and means that the future is set in stone.

>>79322514
>>"lol sorry daughter, you're gonna have a shitty short painful life but it makes ME feel more aliiiive so deal with it"
Every person born is doomed to die you stupid faggot. It would have been selfish for her to deny life because it would hurt to lose a child.

Also time is a flat circle dipshit. Hannah never wasn't born. there was no choice being made.

>Louise can't change the future because fate
>heptapods decide to go to Earth to tell them this magic language to change their future

Does this make sense to anyone?

>>79324767
What this movie needed:

After Amy's last contact her husband's like: "Wait a minute, now i'm gonna talk"

-Hey, squddie. That thing about my unborn daughter is heartbreaking and all. But im still not convinced. We used to take precattions you know. You're all-seeing but we're not. We've put ourselves in your position, but now you do the same. To me it looks like some colonialists come to aboriginals and teach them about how Jesus died for our sins. And teach that in english. So all your bullshit only raised my concearns right now. So try to convince me one more time.

- Ok mammal-boy, well played. You see, when that thing with your chinamen happened you will not die in a nuclear blast, so we had to do it, you know. Cuz we're gonna come some time after and we need you to be alive and well. You know that sweet pice of ass you call Venus? Its gonna be our next home and we will be total bros and you will help us heptapodomorph that n shiit.

- Ok, thats kinda realistic, Not fully convincing, but I'll buy that. See ya next time, dont try anything stupid. And thanks for fucking up my future wife's brain btw.

- Sorry for that, bro t had to be done. Cuz future n shit. See ya next time.

-Ok you can fuck off now, heptabro.

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>>79325320
>heptapods decide to go to Earth to tell them this magic language to change their future

didn't decide. just did. there was never a reality where they didn't. there was no decision and there was no change.

holy shit can you guys even pay attention?

Her daughter has a rare incurable disease. She stated the reason her husband left her is because she knew this was going to happen but did nothing to change it so he fucked off.

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>>79323315
also reminded me of Oversteps t b h

>>79325630
Then why did she have a daughter in the first place? Even Back to to Future made more sense with the multiple timelines.

>>79325666
The movie tried to justify it by saying even though she knew her daughter was going to die young from a terrible debilitating disease, she'd be happy with her for the brief stretch of healthy life they'd share.

It's messed up.

The point is that you cant throw away years of happiness and good times because you know its going to end tragically.

As a pet owner my whole life, this was instantly clear.
Every time i get a dog i know that im going to be wrecked for weeks when it inevitably dies, but i do it anyways.

>>79325666
time is a dang flat circle. She didn't have a choice in the matter. history is and always has been written.

>Then why did she have a daughter in the first place?
Why does anyone? Birth is a death sentence

>>79325727
But the likelihood is your dog is going to live to the end of its natural lifespan. Not die when it's 4 from cancer. Also you'd be giving both to the dog in this case.

>>79322514
I hate Amy Adams

>>79322955
what if she decides to kill herself after seeing the future events

>>79325773
this, kek

I had a cat when I was a kid that died at 7 yrs old due to skin cancer, it fucked me up

I have a cat atm who is 18 years old and still not a bony haggard mess, when he dies it'll be kinda sad sure but I know we've had lots of good times and it won't be anything like when my first cat died

>>79322514
Yeah I suppose, but that wouldn't really jive with the message of the film. If the author wrote the story with the original moral being, "It's okay if we live in a deterministic universe, that doesn't make our life experiences less valid," then it wouldn't be very smart of him to write an ending where she's trying to fight against determinism. At the very least, it would come off as more of a greek tragic, "You Can't Fight Fate" story, rather than an existentialist parable.

tl;dr Amy Adams has to accept the deterministic universe otherwise she fails at being a model for the story's moral.

>>79325854
But the story's model is flawed if foresight exists. It allows you to mitigate choices that have terrible outcomes.

>>79325854
but what is the point of living if there is no will to power?

>>79322636
>timey whimey mindy windy child deathy preachy reachy round about woman 'logicing'
>'zero-sum game' the answer to everything - came from the guy sitting 2 feet next to her the whole time
sounds about right

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>>79325976
We must imagine Sisyphus happy.

>>79325741
>She didn't have a choice in the matter.

She already knew the future, she had a choice unless she forgot the future or forget to take her pills when studying biology with Renner's character

>>79322714
Well yeah, that's the point. She can see what's going to happen but has no choice over it. It's determinism. The whole point of it is that even though everything is already predestined life can still be beautiful to live, even with all the pain that it has.

>>79323376
Severely underrated.

>>79325706
>>79325666
Exactly and thats why her husband left her

>>79325666
There isn't actually a "why". The decision was already made. In the Arrival universe, time is flat, and solid. Past, present, and future are simultaneous. Everything that ever will happen has already happened, and it couldn't have possibly have happened any differently.

The world of Arrival is a world fundamentally without Free Will. It's, well, like a movie. You, as the viewer, have the illusion that the characters on the screen are making decisions, that they have some measure of control over their lives, but they're just images on celluloid. Their entire history is contained in a reel. That's our world too, only bigger.