Can someone help me understand this movie? What did it all mean?

>>79218111

Movies don't mean anything you dumb faggot, they're just pictures and noise.

>>79218111
He held onto his beliefs in the end. That's it. Not terribly complicated.

>>79218111
The general message is that faith is personal and internal, and if your faith causes others to suffer, it may be more in keeping with Christian ideals to do something internally sacrilegious if it prevents external pain.

>>79218168
Ok. I got that i guess. I thought it meant he was defeated because he forsook his lord in front of people.

>>79218111
Trying to bring new meaning to literally living for Christ. Shows the strength of Christ and weakness of man

>>79218208
Ok. Would christian philosophers accept this do you think?

>>79218235
I'm on the fence about that, and I feel it would cause divisions within the church.

>>79218235
I'm not sure. I assume some would. I'm not Christian, so I'm not on the up and up on modern Catholic discourse on apostasy.

>>79218250
I mean it is a legitimate question in that realm. Denounce christ to save the lives and possibly souls of otherss.

>>79218235
It doesn't take much thought to know that you must proclaim your allegiance to Christ in the face of death. After all death is the only way to eternal salvation. He's fucking up Catholicism with this movie

>>79218315
Even if it's true that you need to proclaim allegiance to Christ in the face of death (which I think is dubious) the movie isn't about that. It's about proclaiming allegiance to Christ in the face of death for others.

>>79218348
The others he was said to be saving already renounced Christ. They can't be saved

>>79218360
Uh, they could be. Someone renouncing christ can be saved. This is basic stuff. God is all forgiving granted you are truly sorry.

>>79218208
That's the moral of the story, but if you think about why the story exists, I think it exists to explore the reasons why this extremely devout man might have apostatized as he did, and not sought to suffer torture and death for his beliefs like the Christ did.

That's what I love about this movie. It's so disappointing. Oppression and weakness win out. Very atypical of a religious film

>>79218408
I don't disagree with that. It's really a clever inversion of Christ's life. Christ had to suffer and die to save others, while Rodrigues had to avoid suffering and death to save others.

>>79218408
How true is it? I dont wanna google it i want to hear it from 4chan discussion first.

>>79218208
Said it before, I'll say it again: Adam Driver was the only real Christian in the movie because he never apostatized and died trying to save others.

Don't believe me? Ask an actual bishop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Th7Tiz1cEk

>>79218517
>real christian
>nkt reallizing everyone is fallable
So jesus only saves mentally strong people? Sad!

>>79218558
According to true Christian doctrine, which is why I'm not a Christian.

That's why the ending on the movie is so disingenuous. It's more like an attack on faith than a confirmation of it. It says that's as long as you keep some small internal faith alive you're still a Christian. If you really believe in an afterlife, then your devotion to God should be supreme no matter the cost. But human nature takes over that and people want to live, or to prevent suffering, and abandon faith for worldly conflict.

Ferrara and Rodriguez are the good guys in this movie not because they are or were the best Christians, but because they're the best humans. They renounced their faith in order to prevent the suffering of others. The little clip of Paul holding the crucifix at the end isn't in the book and is just there to comfort Christians because they're fragile. Christianity and the idea of salvation of the movie's villains.

Stupid Jap Christians deserved to die. As a Japanese person myself, they are disgrace. Abandoning beautiful japanese tradition for ugly white man faith. Also white man so arrogant and dirty. Why they push their filthy religion on everyone?

>>79218474
>>79218408
They weren't going to torture or kill Rodriguez or any priest anymore. Because they knew their religion thrived on that.

Hence all the torture of others. Even people who recanted/apostatized. The more innocent the better.

Which is to say, you aren't thinking very deeply about the "why" of the situation.

>>79218708
You should see my ramen noodle recipe

>>79218860
i tell you already it disgusting you filthy white pig

>>79218770
>Which is to say, you aren't thinking very deeply about the "why" of the situation.

Is there a "why"? There would be no Japanese Christians to dedicate a movie to if they hadn't gone over there trying to make them in the first place

>>79218908
japanon with the banter

>>79219048
You're still only thinking surface level dude. If anything you've actually gone shallower.

Isn't Scorsese a devout Christian

>>79219307
he's a devout hack that's for sure

>>79219048
kirishitians weren't christians.

Should I see this, I love most of Scorcese's movies, but I'm iffy on this one.

>>79218217
Literally got permission to do it from jesus