>grew up being trained in the ways of the Force >decades

>>78868937
He was conflicted, duh

>>78868937
because despite what the prequels and the EU told you, Star Wars was always about strength of will and belief in something greater than oneself, not retarded powerlevel wanking.

thank god JJ understood that

>>78868937
Luke is mary sue

>hesitant to kill Luke
>Luke also has chosen one midichlorians
>Luke channeling the dark side
>Obi wan and Yoda probably trained him explicitly to counter Vader

>>78869060
>thank god jj understood that

lmfao reyfags are funny

>>78869060
fuck off retard. luke winning was a possibility in the rule set. vader just rolled a bad dice and luke did a saving throw and scored a critical hit.

>>78868937
>Why is this allowed?
Because "lol genetics!" is the crutch of every bad writer. You see it a lot in poorly planned animated shows.

>How could master bad guy X be beaten by hero Y?
>His secret bloodline technique of course!

>>78868937
wtf i hate luke now

That's the WHOLE POINT OF THE FORCE you dimwit.

The power of your connection to the force is greater than physical strength and aggression. Literally PAY ATTENTION WHEN THE CHARACTERS ARE TALKING.

>>78869861
the prequels midichlorian bullshit and the literal experience points of the video games have perverted the Force beyond repair, just look at this dipshit who thinks Luke and vader were playing KOTOR >>78869152

>>78868937
he wasn't trying to kill or defeat his son just turn him to the dark side

>>78868937
Luke was the chosen one, not Anakin.
Also, Sheev had the funny idea to make Vader's suit as shitty as possible. Sheev probably didn't even train him.
I also find it nice that everything the Rebellion achieved and every sacrifice they made was literally for naught. Roughly 20 years after their victory, the Empire is back with an even more powerful superweapon and the senate is once again quite literally in shambles.

>>78869100
>Obi and yoda trained him to counter vader
This. He got his shit kicked in when sheev decided to join in.

>>78869920
>Luke was the chosen one, not Anakin.

Chosen one isn't canon

>Also, Sheev had the funny idea to make Vader's suit as shitty as possible. Sheev probably didn't even train him.

Not canon, wookiepedia autism trying to justify in-universe why the suit looked like it was cheaply made from material lying around a film set in 1976 (because it was cheaply made from material lying around a film set in 1976)

>I also find it nice that everything the Rebellion achieved and every sacrifice they made was literally for naught. Roughly 20 years after their victory, the Empire is back with an even more powerful superweapon and the senate is once again quite literally in shambles.

Sheev was destroyed, his Empire was defeated, Anakin was redeemed. That's like saying World War I was pointless because World War II happened, even though World War I literally changed the entire political landscape of the world and led to the creation of dozens of new nations.

>>78869920
>Luke was the chosen one, not Anakin

wrong.

Anakin is the protagonist of the first 6 movies, not luke (even if the prequels suck shit they don0't change this fact)

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>>78868937
Daddy issues make you stronger.

Skip to 3:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWqTj-LuXCs

>>78869978
Anakin isn't the protagonist of the original trilogy and there is NO mention of him being an especially powerful Jedi, much less space jesus

the "chosen one" nonsense was a retcon because George was influenced by the outside marketing and decided that since Darth Vader was the guy on all the cereal boxes he had to be the literal center of the star wars universe

>>78869969
>chosen one isn't canon
Are you retarded?
Disney didn't un-canon the prequels.

>>78869969
It just seems like the destruction of the Empire didn't change a thing.
The senate is still completely incompetent. The Empire was once again able to build a Death Star, just bigger this time. There is once again an evil space wizard running around.

>>78870036
they haven't explicitly obliterated them from canon but despite borrowing a few things people like (Jimmy Smiths, Ewan MacGregor, etc) they're never going to be mentioned again

notice how despite being the SUPER DUPEREST STRONGEST JEDI EVAR WHO BROUGHT BALANCE TO THE FORCE anakin isn't even mentioned in TFA except as "Luke's father"

Being experienced in something does not make you incapable of error, especially when Vader was under extraordinary emotional pressure.

>>78870086
Anakin's mentioned as Vader, dummy.

>>78870076
>The senate is still completely incompetent

Yeah, so? It wouldn't be an interesting movie if everyone were perfectly logical and rational machines that instantly knew the best solution to a problem. Don't tell me you're one of those faggots who wanted the Yuuzhan Vong because they're """new""" and """refreshing"""

>There is once again an evil space wizard running around.

At least they're not Sith, when in the old EU Sheev returned from the grave like a million times (rendering Anakin's sacrifice+redemption pointless) and new Sith Lords were a diamond dozen

>>78870113
Yes, within the context of Darth Vader as the character from the original trilogy

No space jesus anakin skywalker

>>78870023
>Anakin isn't the protagonist of the original trilogy and there is NO mention of him being an especially powerful Jedi, much less space jesus

it is one of the protagonists of the old trilogy considering his importance and screen time and what he did at the end, after the prequel trilogy he became the protagonist of the first 6 movies.

One of the reasons I like the original star wars is how luke realizes he wasn't really the main character and it isn't everything about him, never understood why sw nerds choose to ignore this- maybe they are too narcissistic to contemplate such a possibility- that you are not the real main character after all, etc

>>78870126
I don't give a fuck about the Yuuzhan Vong.
TFA was completely uninspired garbage that just stole everything from ANH except the threatening villain.
Also, it's just not fun when the same stuff happens again and again. It makes the guys you are supposed to root for look like fucking idiots who learned nothing.

>>78870086
Prequels are canon.
Stop bullshit

>>78870146
>literally the highest bar of power Ren strives for
super duperest.

And bringing balance to the force wasn't about being at op powerlevels anyway, it was about cutting the jedi down to as few as the sith.

>>78869920
Luke was not the chosen one. Anakin is because he killed Sheev

>>78868937
Luke had more midichlorians. He also had Luuke and Luuuke waiting in the wings should he fail. Vader had no chance.

>>78868937

i think i found bigger luke

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>>78869060
I personally agree with this take. This is what the prequels got wrong. Episode I lacked any emotion in the fights and went too deep on trying to explain the power level thing throughout the prequels. The only time you started to feel anything was when Anakin became Vader. TFA kept it simple and I expect TLJ to keep it very similar to Yoda and Luke's teaching. You don't need to be abducted when you're 1 years old and to play with sticks.

Then you got all the EU that ran with these ideas in the prequels. They made games like KOTOR and fans have this prequel power level concept. They think it's a fucking RPG.

>>78868937
>Why is this allowed?

The whole scene on the second death start is about how the emperor and vader didnt want to kill luke, they want to turn him into the dark side. Did you even watched the movie?

>grew up being trained in the ways of the Force
>decades of Jedi experience
>strongest force connection
>turns to the dark side
>trained under Sidious for decades in the ways of the Dark Side
>fought and killed dozens of Jedi

The whole point of OT is vader being cold heart, more a machine than a man now.
he is also a crippled man with robotic limbs, so his movement is limited. His knowledge about dark sides is what make him more powerfull than any jedi

>gets his shit kicked in by his son who went to one week of Yoda boot camp

It´s supossed to be like 2 years between Empire and ROTJ. Also, anakin was trained by Obi Wan, Luke by Yoda, different teacher, different training

>>78870190
Yeah, let's just ignore that Kylo's obsession with Vader is depicted as unhealthy and delusional, ultimately misguided, and it causes him to lack a true understanding of the Force to the point he gets his ass kicked by an untrained girl

>>78870315
Prequels are set in a time when science and politics have a place in the galaxy. I know midichlorians make people go in full aspie mode, but make sense in the context of a technological society, power levels make sense.

Original trilogy take place in a time when science and knowledge is in decadence. The whole jedi thing become a myth.

>>78869969
"the chosen one" as well as whatever they say about the prophecy in the films. Anything said in any of the prequel films is canon.

>>78869920
Lucas never intended to have this chosen one prophecy when he made the OT. However, Anakin was the chosen one with the way they tied it together. He redeemed himself, killed Sidious, died as Darth Vader the Sith Lord, and lived on as a Jedi force ghost Anakin. They could have misinterpreted the prophecy but that would require a ton of explanation and stuff they probably don't want in this trilogy. The only reason why Yoda suspected they misinterpreted it in Episode III, is because they didn't know that Anakin would become Vader and kill off all the Jedi first.

>>78870438
>Anything said in any of the prequel films is canon.

Even when it contradicts the original trilogy? Because that happens a fuckton in the prequels.

>>78870435
That's fine and all, explain the force through science and genes so that we can understand why Luke is strong in the force. I get that.

But the whole Jedi order, the prequel fighting, the excessive use of force powers. This all took away from what the force was all about.

Oh so Yoda steps in, his power level is higher, he can do a few more force powers and has force absorb. It's just a total dick wanking contest.

All the scenes of the younglings was retarded. There was no actual teaching in the way Yoda taught Luke. It was all just a bunch of lightsabers, lightsabers, and more lightsabers. Twirling and spinning.

TFA had it simple, emotional, on a real set. Two people trying to kill eachother with lightsabers while trying not to get hit.

This is why the OT lightsaber fights are actually good when compared to the prequel, despite all the fantasy stage fighting none sense they incorporated.

>>78870497
Yes, because the contradictions are minor and more nitpicking on whether you like the movies are not.

Little things like "the jedi have been the guardians of peace for a thousand generations" vs "I will not let the republic that has been for 1000 years fall" said by Palpatine in the prequels. Little things. You are going to have to argue your point. Either way you look at it, everything in the prequels is canon.

>>78868937
He didn't want to kill his own son, for starters. It also wasn't just one week, ROTJ happened around 2 years after ESB, if I remember correctly

>>78870597
>little things

>Obi-Wan hung out with C3PO and R2D2 but doesn't remember them
>Anakin building C3PO who hung out with the Lars family for a decade, but Uncle Owen had forgotten about him entirely by the time he repurchased threepio
>Leia having memories of her mother who died in childbirth
>Chewbacca being best friends with Yoda and seeing him in action yet never telling Han "hey man, the jedi were real, I saw Yoda doing force flips and cutting off heads and stuff"
>"You must find Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me, but oh wait, it was actually Liam Neeson, he was a good friend"

and when you bring in actual nitpicks like everyone being much younger than the OT portrayed them the list goes on and on

>>78870750
The humans are racist towards the droids and don't consider them people, which is why they can't remember any specific droid despite interacting with them before. Chewbacca doesn't bother correcting Han because they are friends and he's not an autist. Yoda completed Obi-Wan's training after Qui-Gon died and is alive, you wouldn't send Luke to Qui-Gon's grave now would you?

I got nothing on Leia.

>>78870750
>Obi-Wan hung out with C3PO and R2D2 but doesn't remember them
C3PO's memory end of RotS. Obi-Wan acted like he remembered R2D2 in episode 4. R2 was Anakin's droid and C3PO was Padme's droid. C3PO is not a unique droid. R2 is not really that unique either. It had been 17 years, who cares. This is nitpicking.
>Anakin building C3PO who hung out with the Lars family for a decade, but Uncle Owen had forgotten about him entirely by the time he repurchased threepio
Wrong, Anakin built C3PO in his Slave home. Episode II states Anakin's mother was bought and married after Anakin left. Uncle Owen was a half brother through that marriage and never saw C3PO be built and never knew Anakin as a kid.
>Leia having memories of her mother who died in childbirth
Leia said she just has feelings and images of her mother. Says she was beautiful, kind, and sad. She doesn't really remember much. This is implied that it's just the force. Again, pretty much nitpicking.
>Chewbacca being best friends with Yoda and seeing him in action yet never telling Han "hey man, the jedi were real, I saw Yoda doing force flips and cutting off heads and stuff"
This took place years ago and everyone thinks the Jedi are dead. Just because Chewbacca saw Yoda use his lightsaber once doesn't mean anything. Again Nitpicking.
>"You must find Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me, but oh wait, it was actually Liam Neeson, he was a good friend"
Yoda instructed all the Jedi. Did you not see him training about 30 younglings in a classroom? Yoda clearly instructed Obi-Wan on many things and was his guidance after Qui-Gon passed.

All of the things you stated are nitpicking things that don't really matter that much in terms of the story. They create no plot holes. You are blatantly wrong about the Uncle Owen point.

why is a room full of 6 year olds with light sabers left unsupervised? I guess Jedi don't give a fuck about safety. Must be no lawyers in that galaxy.

>>78870535
>But the whole Jedi order, the prequel fighting, the excessive use of force powers. This all took away from what the force was all about.

Lucas envisioned the whole jedi thing as badass budist monk. It was great on OT because it was just a fraction of the story, because the main story is about the rebelds vs the empire, its a war. Jedi are just the mystic part of the story, in the same way Obi Wan/Yoda are Merlin and Sheev is Morgan le Fay.

In prequels the whole story is about Jedi vs Sith. We can blame lucas but also the fans

>Oh so Yoda steps in, his power level is higher, he can do a few more force powers and has force absorb. It's just a total dick wanking contest.

Force absorb is bullshit, but the whole concept of the force is a bit deux ex machina since ANH

>All the scenes of the younglings was retarded. There was no actual teaching in the way Yoda taught Luke. It was all just a bunch of lightsabers, lightsabers, and more lightsabers. Twirling and spinning.

Maybe is the traditional jedi learning in a safe enviroment? Luke trained in a swamp because is the only thing they have.

>TFA had it simple, emotional, on a real set. Two people trying to kill eachother with lightsabers while trying not to get hit.

But again, someone who never pick a lightsaber sudenly defeat a long trained person, the only diference with luke/vader is that vader didnt tried to kill luke.

>This is why the OT lightsaber fights are actually good when compared to the prequel, despite all the fantasy stage fighting none sense they incorporated.

The whole lightsaber duel become dull. It was a special part in OT, and now everyone, even a teenager girl can use a lightsaber... And no, luke didnt use the lightsaber to fight in ANH, we see him use it for first time in Empire and he is defeated.

>>78871664
No, the Rey is the force awakens you stupid fuck. Kylo Ren even says her powers are coming back to her when he's looking for her on star killer base.

The fight was not dull. It actually was one of the more realistic lightsaber fights out of all the movies.

>>78871275
Training sabers are very weak. Would take holding the blade against someone for a while to give them a 1st degree burn.

>>78871789
Wanker

>>78871980
No, that's star wars legends bullshit. Not canon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Training_lightsaber

>>78871789
>No, the Rey is the force awakens you stupid fuck. Kylo Ren even says her powers are coming back to her when he's looking for her on star killer base.

Rey is a character who can flight the Millennium Falcon like Han Solo, can use light sabers like luke and even is the charcter who leia confort after the death of Solo, even if she know her for a day instead of chewie. Is not a character, is a wildcard for the writters

>The fight was not dull.

The fight dull, it was there just because the producers need a lightsaber duel, even if that means have a teenager girl and a cleaning stoorm trooper righting against a trained knight of ren.

>It actually was one of the more realistic lightsaber fights out of all the movies.

Is one of the most gratuite and nonsensical battles of the whole star wars canon.

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>all these retards thinking Luke had actually surpasses Vader
>this is the state of /tv/

Vader let him win you fucking homos. That's the point of the whole scene.

Vader could easily have kicked Luke's ass if he wanted to but he no longer wanted to fight his own son.

Learn how to watch a movie you fucking dumbasses

>>78872271
Rey mentioned she worked on the Falcon with the junk dealer guy who had it. Luke was able to fly xwings at an extremely high level. Anakin in TPM could fly with no practice and was the only human who could pod race.

You just don't get the magic of the heroes in star wars being able to do incredible things.

The fight was not dull. It's better than ever fight in the prequels. It had a real set. Good atmosphere, lighting, and didn't take up an entire act of the movie.

Every single lightsaber swing in TPM is obviously horrible chroeography where they are just dodging eachother's attacks on purpose and not even trying to hit eachother.

In the TFA it was much similar to the OT where they are trying to hit each other and it's more realistic to real real life than the gymnastics they go through in in the PT.

You're just a tasteless, contrarian who doesn't understand star wars and has played too many video games.

Vader was like 90 years old at that point.

>>78872444
Being a marry-sue =/= a plot hole
Just because it can be explained doesn't mean it's good character crafting.

>>78870315
>1 years old
>1 years

Stay in school, underage.

>>78868937
Yeah I agree the movie should have been at least 10 hours long and just showcasing Yoda's training.

>>78872471
Cry more faggot. You probably praise Felacio Jones and the Rogue One characters.

>>78868937
I always interpreted Vader as being not that into it. He seemed quite conflicted, as was shown especially during their scene on Endor when Luke turned himself in.

>>78872561
Finally somebody else gets it >>78872344

Vader didn't want to win

God damn

How are people this stupid

>>78869960
To be fair, everyone gets their shit kicked in by Sheev.

>>78868937
He was battered to the ground by an enraged youth a third of his age. Vader was an old man who couldn't keep up with Luke. He was wheezing for air by the end of it. Luke would have won that fight even if Vader was not conflicted.

>>78872686
Underage idiot

Go back to r/starwars

>>78872743
>muh epik invincible monster man
You should try out r/RogueOne

>>78872666
Gravity did just fine against him.

>>78868937
Did they forget to add space footage to that blue screen?

>>78870183
You are right, the nightmare will never end.

>fought and killed dozens of Jedi

Top kek, the only canon ones he killed were jedi children, and Dooku (Whose defeat can be argued in that Sheev could have weakened Dooku since he was about to betray him and basically enforces the Rule of Two, Dooku's defeat also feeds Anakin's ego in thinking hes able enough to be a master)

>>78873103
He beat Dooku straight up.

>>78869969
Ww1 was the WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED. It literally ruined everything

>>78869889
>watching Ep1 in the theater
>drunk-on gin starts to say "Midichlorians are a microscopic life form"
>immediately think he's about to say that they're some bullshit that's attracted to Force sensitives and thus a good gauge of their degree of Force sensitivity

Still would have been stupid, but far less stupid than them literally creating the Force. Why don't blood transfusions in Star Wars create new Force users?

>>78868937
>>gets his shit kicked in by his son who went to one week of Yoda boot camp
He destroys him in Empire, then we're under the impression Luke realised Yoda was right, and went off to train by himself for a few years between Empire and Jedi.

Also it's his son.

>>78873044
No, Sheevs shitposting machine just broke down momentarily.

Rey and Luke are both mary sues

>>78872444
>Rey mentioned she worked on the Falcon with the junk dealer guy who had it. Luke was able to fly xwings at an extremely high level. Anakin in TPM could fly with no practice and was the only human who could pod race.

I think you dont get the whole point of chare develpment is see how the protagonist goes from a normal guy to learn diferent kind of skills in order to become a complete hero

Luke in the first film is a pilot, not the best one, just the one who survived to the battle and the one who used the force to blown death star. He is not a trained jedi until ROTJ and we see him fight and lost on Empire.

Same happens with Anakin, in the first film we see him only like a pilot, and in the following movies learning to use light saber / force. Rey since her first movie is a great pilot, force user and skilled in lightsaber fights.

>The fight was not dull. It's better than ever fight in the prequels. It had a real set. Good atmosphere, lighting, and didn't take up an entire act of the movie.

About lightsaber duels my point still stands. Since TPM each battle is there just to remind you are watching star wars, TFA is not the exception and again, the whole battle make no sense since rey defeat kylo

>You're just a tasteless

you are the one who like TFA and that tells a lot more about your tastes.

>contrarian who doesn't understand star wars

So, this is a nerd battle?

>and has played too many video games.

I never played SW videogames beside SNES ones and I dont care about EU.

>>78873090
>the nightmare will never end.

Since there is TFA , RO and several disney films for the next century, yeah, the nightmare will never end.

>>78874923
>midichlorians literally creating the Force
But that's not true.

fucking jedi were horrible role models
yoda trained dooku - became evil
obi wan trained anakin - became evil

qui im gone trained obi wan - did okay.
but obi wan was still a dick to luke - probably because he didn't want to take him on as a padwan and repeat the same mistake he made with anakin. so he just gave him the cliff notes of being a jedi. the force surrounds us and guides us. use it for good. light sabre, pretty cool weapon and can be used in conjunction with the force (using it while blinded). okay that's enough, go to yoda and he'll complete your training in 2 or 3 days top.

and what does luke do? hey han/leia let me train kylo. damn, i fucked up. let me hide rey in some godforsaken planet. don't worry, she's only 8, she'll survive. can't let the empire get her.

>>78875224
You still can't get over Rey doing anything special even though the movie explains everything to you. You're just a low IQ moviegoer who watches a film once and never analyzes it closer to answer questions you have.

Rey beating Kylo is explained through the Bowcaster wound. The bowcaster was since act 2 to be very powerful.

The lightsaber battle was good because it's emotional. It's the son of Solo who just killed his father, is wounded and filled with the darkside. Rey finally awakens from whatever she was in. The film explains that Rey is awakening and has a backstory we have yet to learn about. It's very obvious that Rey had Jedi training and Kylo knows her. Kylo even says her powers are becoming stronger and very quickly, because she is remembering. Rey and Kylo were better and more indepth characters than anything in the prequels combined.

>>78875481
>Rey beating Kylo is explained through the Bowcaster wound.

That was powering up Kylo, hectanigger. He was literally beating his wound to make himself more pained and angry to grow his Dark Side power level.

>>78875607
First of all, get that EU faggotry out of here. He's not Darth Sion.

It's also proven time and time again that Kylo doesn't actually believe his own rhetoric and is only pretending to be le badass sith lord in order to make up for his insecurities and perceived weaknesses. he's an emotional fucking wreck because he thought killing his dad would make his pain and conflict go away but he realized how badly he fucked up

Luke actually had been training for at least 2 or 3 years and Vader was conflicted

>>78869152
You can't crit on a saving throw you mongoloid

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>>78868937
>Emotion

He was losing up until Lord Vader mentioned Luke's sister Leia whom he wanted to turn to the dark side. That is when he got angry and defeated him.

Also anyone who is comparing him to Rey is mentally challenged. Luke had already lost a bout with Vader and lost a hand in the process. Rey stood still with her eyes closed while having her lightsaber locked up with Kylo for like 30 seconds keep in mind he is a Sith that was trained by Luke and presumably Snoke and Sith are known to fight dirty, easily the most retarded scene all time in any Star Wars.

>>78875694
>First of all, get that EU faggotry out of here
The Force Awakens isn't EU.

The rest of your post just proves he'd be more powerful than usual.

> only pretending to be le badass sith lord
Killed an entire camp of a hundred or more Jedi so he is le badass Sith lord and even has Anakin genetics meaning his midichlorian count boosts his badass Sith Lordness unfairly from birth.

>>78875751
>continuing to use EU and prequel logic
>failing to understand a simple character in a children's space movie

there's no hope for you, you're beyond retarded

>>78875772
>EU and prequel logic
Never once mentioned EU, prequels are canon.

Make an argument any time

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>>78870315
>OT elitists sperg out about Jedi being trained at a young age
>Yoda says in Empire that Luke is too old

>>78875607
Either way, it weakened Kylo. Add to the fact that he was an emotional wreck after killing his father, it's easy to see why he would be weak in this fight.

Also what this anon said >>78875694

you guys care way too much about this shit

>>78876041
True, but that was because Luke was like 19 or 20 by Empire?

>>78875792
>prequels are canon

in broad strokes to not piss off the autists who enjoyed them, but none of the concepts concerning the Force or its morality presented in them are relevant to TFA

as far as TFA is concerned only the original trilogy is canon.

>>78876041
Yoda was just being a non-committal asshole. He just wants to fuck off and do nothing in his swamp and here comes Obi with some snot nosed kid he wants him to train.

>>78868937

>kills a bunch of niggers under the pretext it will save his wife and children

CONFLICT

>>78876041
"he is too old to begin the training" doesn't mean "he had to be kidnapped as a child and raised in a puerile and stale loveless environment where he whacked around glowbats with his youngling buddies for 20 years"

>>78876315
>Either way, it weakened Kylo.

Nope that was powering up Kylo, hectanigger. He was literally beating his wound to make himself more pained and angry to grow his Dark Side power level.

>>78876439
You can either go by what's actually laid out in the movie (and explicitly said as much in the script) or your autistic prequel logic headcanon

>>78876333

you don't belong here

>>78869969
You do realize that Wookiepedia isn't comprised of completely made up shit right? Every bit of information on the site is sourced back to something official, be it an EU comic book or a supplemental appendix's 4th edition or simply something George said in an interview.

>>78876462
>You can either go by what's actually laid out in the movie

That's what I'm doing thanks.

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>>78876526
You're making shit up, here's some screencaps to show you that you're fucking wrong, dumb shit

>>78869920
Anakin is still the chosen one. He killed the remaining Jedi (obi-wan, Yoda died on his own) as well as the Sith (himself and Palpatine). In the process, he forced Luke to partially succumb to the dark side making him a grey Jedi (in between light and dark), thus bringing balance to the force.

>>78876462
The film lays out why Kylo was weak in the fight. There is no headcanon about it. I'm not that other faggot.

>>78876653
>You're making shit up
Nope I've only stated exactly what was happening in the film there on the screen.

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>>78876526
>>78876653
specific mention is made here that Kylo Ren is "strained" by the wound

now shut the fuck up, prequelbabby

>>78876653
That isn't how it comes across on film. Kylo seems very conflicted leading up to the confrontation, but pretty resolute after he carries the slaying out.

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>>78876667
>he forced Luke to partially succumb to the dark side making him a grey Jedi (in between light and dark)
>grey Jedi
>my shitty franchise is overloaded with lazer guns and magic beans and i have to fit every last bit of it into a box or i'll die

>>78875481
>You still can't get over Rey doing anything special even though the movie explains everything to you.

The movie can explain it, but that dont make it less bullshit. You need 3 films to see luke be a pilot, learn the force and defeat vader in a lightsaber duel (and vader didnt want to kill him, just convince him to awake his dark side) and in just 1 film you see Rey do all in just 1 movie.


>The lightsaber battle was good because it's emotional. It's the son of Solo who just killed his father, is wounded and filled with the darkside. Rey finally awakens from whatever she was in.

Its emotional because the director and the producers want to re-hash the death of Obi Wan? dude you eat the whole turd.

>It's very obvious that Rey had Jedi training and Kylo knows her. Kylo even says her powers are becoming stronger and very quickly, because she is remembering.

Is not obvious, since is not on the movie, just sugested. You seem the kind of guy who love to read rumors and shit.

>Rey and Kylo were better and more indepth characters than anything in the prequels combined.

Rey an Kylo are copypasted shitty cardbox characters with little to none of development.

>You're just a low IQ moviegoer

you are the one praising TFA here.

>>78876428
Jedi aren't abducted, their parents voluntarily give them to the Jedi. We see this in episode 1.

>>78877231
It's almost as if Rey and Kylo are different characters than Luke and Vader despite each filling the hero and villain role, respectively

>>78876851
I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. And is that a picture of yourself?

>>78876392
>>78876392
>as far as TFA is concerned only the original trilogy is canon.

TFA just focuses on OT because of money. Give Disney a couple of years when they died up the cow and they will start to do prequels to the prequels.

>>78877275
>It's almost as if Rey and Kylo are different characters than Luke and Vader despite each filling the hero and villain role, respectively

Rey:
>girl living in a sand planet who want to leave
>white robes
>doing shit job
>she meet a robot wich lead her to be part of the rebelds and confront the empire
>later she up to the millenium falcon
>she have to accept her new force power
>a mentor character die in front of her eyes by a masked man
>and go on the second movie for her real master

Kylo
>masked man wearing black
>is the dog under the orders of other guy who comunicate via holograms
>he hunt people looking for secret data
>he had bad temperament when he dont get what he want
>he torture people
>he kills a mentor of the main character

Dont fool yourself. Disney indeed think you are a fool.

>>78876689
Cut that prequel shit out. Remember how that gun sent stormtroopers flying? Do you think he became more powerful with that hole in his spleen? He's barely keeping his composure while beating the wound to pump some adrenaline through his body.

>>78876697

Why would he show signs of being conflicted in the forest fight? He barely even knows the two people he's going out to murder. He despises one of them, and the other one is a rival to his insecure mind. He had feelings for his father, but he doesn't hold any love for Rey and Finn.

>>78877231
How many times do you people need to be explained that Kylo=/=Vader? Beating wounded Kylo in a swordfight is not the equivalent of beating Vader in a swordfight. Here's a big shocker, the antagonist was beaten at the end of the movie.

I agree that Rey is kinda a weak character, but Kylo is a far bigger character than Vader was in his first movie. And there is not a long stretch from moisture farmer turned pilot to scavenger turned pilot.

>>78877407
Star Wars has been about money since that weird space movie blew all expectations in 1977. It really started to show with Return of the Jedi.

>>78877231
>The movie can explain it, but that dont make it less bullshit.

See, your problem is not the writing because you admit it's explained. It's just that you personally don't like it.

>Its emotional because the director and the producers want to re-hash the death of Obi Wan? dude you eat the whole turd.

Yes it is, Obi-Wan's death was one of the most emotional scenes in ANH. It worked well, and was even stronger because of how much the viewer is familiar with Han Solo. You have no argument here.

>Is not obvious, since is not on the movie, just sugested. You seem the kind of guy who love to read rumors and shit.

It is heavily implied in the movie that Rey is strong in the force. I'm sorry you are so dumb everything has to be spelled out.

>Rey an Kylo are copypasted shitty cardbox characters with little to none of development.

Actually they are new characters with traits and elements of Luke and Vader/Anakin. They have backstories that have yet to be explored and make them interesting. No character in the star wars franchise has tried to be evil on purpose like Kylo.

>you are the one praising TFA here.

TFA is widely considered to be a good star wars movie. I'm sorry your asshurt opinions force you to be such a contrarian faggot.

>>78877726
>Cut that prequel shit out

Prequels are canon, sorry EUbabby.

>>78878032
I don't give a shit about the EU, senpai

>>78878070
I don't give a shit about you being in denial about prequels being canon fampai :^)

>>78878107
Cling to your terrible prequel canon all you want, but as far as the sequels are concerned, the prequels don't exist.

>>78878254
>as far as the sequels are concerned, the prequels don't exist.

Other than the references and acknowledgment of the prequels.

You don't have a leg to stand on here do you?

>>78878304
You mean one of those flags shown for a split second?

>>78868937
>be shit head kid on desert planet
>get trained to be jedi by padawan that was reluctant to defu the council
>max out your stats to be a 8/10 duelist and 6/10 force user
>lose your limbs
>get dueling ability knocked back to 1/10
>train with sheev to get back up to 6/10 dueling proficienty but max at dat force choke to 8/10
>son who has all your natural talent with all his limbs gets lucky and beats you because he goes full ragemode

how is this inconsistnt?

Cylo Gren Neo blocking a blaster bolt in mid air was far more unbalenced than this

>>78877686
Finding similarities in plot=/=interesting characters

Rey
-characteristics of both Luke and Anakin making her interesting and heroic
-She is kind, likable, cares about other people
-Has a rough life, has to dig for scraps in a desert so that she doesn't starve and lives in a wrecked AT-AT. She is utterly alone. This is different from Luke and Anakin, they at least had houses and food to eat. Luke was a farmer and eat meals with his family. Anakin was a slave but lived in a house and eat meals with his mother. His food seemed guaranteed to him.
-She has a mysterious backstory, we see a flashback of her as a child being abandoned as a child
-Instead of becoming a Jedi and learning about the force like Anakin and Luke, these abilities and powers awaken in her strong and stronger as the film goes on. This is different from any other characters in star wars. Maybe that's because she is already a Jedi? Hmmm interesting. This could be a unique character.

Kylo
-characteristics of Anakin, Luke, and Han Solo making him interesting
-characteristics of Darth Vader making him interesting
-unique character because unlike Anakin who went to the darkside because of love, Kylo went to the darkside because of his fantasy to be like Darth Vader. This is so interesting because we have a villain who is blatantly trying to be like a prior villain in the same franchise. This breaks a different dimension because the character admits to his fanboy idolization of Vader. He is unsure of himself, while Anakin was confident. He looks at himself as a hero. He sees Vader/his grandfather Anakin as misunderstood, even though the universe perceives Vader as the most notorious evil man of all time. Vader is their Hitler, and Kylo is murdering all the good guy's saying "Vader did nothing wrong!" He's hands down my favorite character in TFA and might become one of the most interesting characters in the franchise.

>>78878514
>Kylo Ren
>Cylo REEEEEE

>Zyklon B

>>78871198
Kek that faggot got btfo. Jesus I hate sw queers like this faggot >>78870086


>>78870750
Pay attention to the movies you fucking moron. People BARELY remember that Jedi existed at the time of the OT. how many people knew that anakin was the chosen one who would bring balance to the force in the prequels? Only the main characters. God your brain can't make these simple connections pls kys

>>78877765
>See, your problem is not the writing because you admit it's explained. It's just that you personally don't like it.

Beacuse is bullshit. A character that dont evolve, but is insta-win fliying ships, using the force and beating trained warriors in lightsaber duels is boring. You need to see the character learning, you need to see the character failling. Is classic rules of hero´s quest.

>Obi-Wan's death was one of the most emotional scenes in ANH. It worked well, and was even stronger because of how much the viewer is familiar with Han Solo. You have no argument here.

My argument is rehash an scene with no other intention than shock-value is poor´s man writting/direction

>It is heavily implied in the movie that Rey is strong in the force. I'm sorry you are so dumb everything has to be spelled out.

Is heavily impled that Luke and Anaking are strong in the force, yet they go through 3 movies to gain skills that Rey learn in just 1.

>Actually they are new characters with traits and elements of Luke and Vader/Anakin.

Star wars is on creativity bankrupt beacuse Disney feels they need to clone OT to death beacuse they need to please people like you. Star Wars is dead.

>TFA is widely considered to be a good star wars movie. I'm sorry your asshurt opinions force you to be such a contrarian faggot.

TFA is a disney film, disney films tends to have good reception. It´s OK to like Disney films. Go back to IMDB or RT where every Disney film got critical acclaim and films like the new Ghostbusters are praised as good soft reboots.

I can stand prequels fags, but TFA fags are cancer. This thread prove it.

>>78879404
>Beacuse is bullshit. A character that dont evolve, but is insta-win fliying ships, using the force and beating trained warriors in lightsaber duels is boring. You need to see the character learning, you need to see the character failling. Is classic rules of hero´s quest.

You act like her character arc is complete. I'm sure it will be expanded on. She was learning things the entire film.

>Is heavily impled that Luke and Anaking are strong in the force, yet they go through 3 movies to gain skills that Rey learn in just 1

Kylo isn't even fully trained, the film establishes that he's weakened. Yet you keep acting like Rey is on caliber with Luke in Return of the Jedi. It was one weakened not fully trained jedi vs a jedi who is also not fully trained.

>My argument is rehash an scene with no other intention than shock-value is poor´s man writting/direction
No, it's not for shock value. It's an important point in the development on Kylo's character. Han Solo was like a short-lived father character to Rey. He went out in heroic fashion while doing the right thing and showing he cares more about his Son than dying. It was an emotional moment, not a misplaced death for shock value.

>Star wars is on creativity bankrupt beacuse Disney feels they need to clone OT to death beacuse they need to please people like you. Star Wars is dead.
No, they are business smart. Also you don't know how similar episodes 8 and 9 will be. You don't even know the full story yet. Star Wars isn't dead. TFA is the one of the most successful movies of all time. This has nothing to do with being loyal to Disney. TFA was a well done movie. It just triggers you because you don't like it.

People who hate on TFA don't have much ground in terms the film itself. They are just butthurt it's not like the prequels or it isn't what their EU fantasy was.

>>78879404
I don't see how you found that swordfight at the end to be boring. Rey barely beat a physically and emotionally depleted guy with a hole in his side. Did you miss the point of Adam Drivers character? He is all bark with a weak bite. Take his mask, and he is just a troubled young man. Rey was a quick learner of the force? It takes Luke less than a minute to learn how to deflect bolts with his sword. Rey just continues the Skywalker trend of a kid being able to fly a starship. Yes, Rey is a more competent character than Luke, the farmboy turned fighter pilot in a day, but not by a long stretch.

A secondary character dying is a rehash now? What are you supposed to do with the character of Han Solo? Han stopped being a character at the end of Empire. His death has been overdue for over thirty years. Might as well use it for some emotional value. Do you know why Obi-Wan died in ANH? It was because at the end of the movie, Lucas realized that Alec Guiness just sat in the rebel base and looked at the screens. Classic rules of the hero's quest also include the hero being left to defeat the villain on their own means. Harrison Ford got his dream wish when his Star Wars career ended.

Have you ever considered that they played it safe with TFA because Star Wars have been a long series of shocking blunders and bad filmmaking since and partly including RotJ? Be a little lenient with the movie. Give Ridleys character a chance, she still has two movies to prove herself.

The truth is that TFA is an OKEY movie. I also think that it was too similar to ANH while not being as good as ANH. I also rolled my eyes when the death star 3.0 blew up like four planets at once. But the movie does not warrant this level of bitching and nitpicking about it. The movie had likable characters and an unique villain, and that's a good foundation to start a new triology on..

>>78869920
Nah, Anakin is the only chosen one.

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Gee, it's almost as if ROTJ is poorly written or something.

>>78870315
It's always been the tale of a mythological hero, which is the exact opposite of power levels and ranking and RPG and balance.

Star Wars: Skywalkers are naturals with the Force, piloting, and mechanics. 3 different destinies/abilities/prophecies to fulfill.

Harry Potter: Lightning bold, natural at flying a broomstick/stupid game, special wand picks him, oh look, he speaks snake naturally, oh look, he's a whiz at super-petronas, etc. etc. etc.

Paul Atreides: Survives gom jabbar, oh my god, he's the female kwisats haderach, oh my god, he's actually a mentat too! Destined to lead the sand people, he's usul the little mouse, his freaking name is a weirding word, etc. etc. etc.

The mythological hero satisfies multiple prophecies because they were invented, historically, to do just that. Numerous prophecies exist, and the people forming a religion start assigning them to their prophet/messiah/whatever, to show he's a big thing indeed!

They writers know all this and that's how you create such a character...or a religious figurehead safely a hundred years or more in the past.

Rey was trained by luke in the academy along side Kylo, Snoke came in and showed Kylo the darkside and he then killed all those who wouldnt turn to the darkside, thats where the Knights of Ren came from.
Rey is a very powerful Jedi and Luke knows that she could be turned as well so he takes her to Jakku at a young age and wipes her mind only for some of her memory to come back as soon as she touched the lightsaber.
Now Kylo has gone back to his Master to finish his training and Rey has also gone back to hers to finish her training..this all leads to the Last Jedi who we all know dies until Rey gets her Revenge of The Jedi for the last film

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>>78880753
RotJ was the start of the series' problems for sure.

>RotJ end confrontation was not set on Coruscant, giving the opportunity to truly depict the people living under the yoke of the Empire. Maybe replacing the ewoks with some kind of mass revolt?
>RotJ did not push Leia and Han to the side, giving more room for Vader/Luke/Emperor development
>We never got Kurtz' spaghetti western ending, with Leia and the battered and tired rebel alliance winning a close fought victory. While Luke, his purpose now fulfilled, walks alone into the dual sunset.

Instead we got Death Star #2 out of 3
Would probably have been real expensive to make Coruscant locations work I guess.

Vader was an old fuck. The suit extenden Anakin's life by just a couple of decades. He lost because he was conflicted, weary and used to winning with fear. Luke didn't fear Vader. Luke did everything a virtuous Jedi would have done.

>>78880969
No. Rey was on Jakku years before Kylo turned. She wasn't Luke's student either.