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9fags

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Thread replies: 273
Thread images: 41

This makes me wanna puke.
>>
Typical plebs that don't understand that a hero NEEDS flaws

sure hope you're not surprised.
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>>64952752

But she's totally not a Mary Sue. She's just perfect at everything and everyone loves her, nothing like a Mary Sue at all.
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>>64952752
It's a shame that Finn is the more interesting character yet he only exists to be upstaged by Rey and be le fanny negro.
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>>64952773
She ran away which led to Han's death.
>>
Holy shit, 9fag truly is the worst cancer of all. Why is this even allowed?
>>
>>64952773
>a hero NEEDS flaws

why?
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>>64952873
This, the only 2 decent characters in that movie were Finn and Kylo.
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>>64952920
To be interesting. Can you name one interesting hero that has no flaws?
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>>64952952
Tintin
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>>64952873
>jar jar
>interesting character
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>>64952920
Allows them to be more relatable

>lrn2josephcampbell
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>>64952920
because it makes them boring and harder to relate to.
Even god like character like Hercules have character flaws.
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>>64952920

Why do you think everyone hates Superman and John Cena? A hero who is always right and never loses is boring as fuck to watch, and totally unrelatable.
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>>64952966
But he often makes mistakes and needs other characters to bail him out.
Being optimistic and determined doesn't make you flawless
>>
Why would you ever go to 9Gag in the first place? Do you hate yourself?
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>>64952752
They're right. I'd rather watch Rey than Luke on screen.
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>>64952952
>To be interesting.
Why do flaws make a hero interesting?
>Can you name one interesting hero that has no flaws?
Gandhi, not the actual person, but the ideal the world remembers him by.
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>>64953001
It also drags down the whole movie because there's 0 suspense.
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>>64952966
How is the character of Tintin interesting?
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>>64952920
>>why?
OPM generation everyone
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>>64953032
An ideal is not a character, and even then, do you seriously think the world views him as objectively flawless?
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>>64952976
>>64952978
>>64953001
Why do you need to relate to a hero? Isn't a hero an ideal to strife towards? Giving such a character flaws only reinforces that you should be content with the status quo with all its flaws.
>>
Being a reluctant indentured servant means you're perfect?
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>>64953001
>John Cena
>hero
Top kek m8
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>>64953001
>and John Cena?
Do amerikeks really consider john cena a hero or something like that?
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>>64953077
You are correct, all of human history dating back to ancient mythology has in fact gotten story-telling wrong, thank god Disney has shown humanity the light with Episode 7.
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>>64952920

So they can develop and grow from them

This is an episodic series, I don't think J.J. Abrams understood that

My guess is that Rey is going to take an odd step back in 8 that doesn't make a lot of sense in continuity but is necessary in order to build an actual arc for her character

Not that I have much hope for this Disneyshit trilogy
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>>64953037
Agreed, Tintin is only interesting because of the people around him.
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>>64952899
>Why is this even allowed?
You sound exactly like the faggots on 9gag.
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>>64953001
Spotted the guy who never read any Superman comic
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>>64952952
yes.
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>>64952920
because a character can't grow if they are already perfect.
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>>64953106
He was the most requested character at the american poll for Smash Bros
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>>64953037
Yeah, I always thought Tintin stories were interesting because of his plucky reactions to interesting situations, like going to the moon and stuff.

>>64953032
Do you think people would like a movie about flawless ideal Gandhi? Americans have similar perfect memories of the founding fathers, but I don't think we have any movies about those people.

That movie Lincoln, for example. Great man, but not a perfect flawless one.
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>>64953032
That idea is boring as fuck.
And the real Ghandi was a pervert, and
that's interesting.
>>
>>64953001
>superman didn't have flaws
I want John Byrne to leave and stay at marvel where he belongs
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>>64953077
No.
Heroes are not supposed to be perfectly ideal, but instead portray ideals.
For example sacrifice is a noble ideal.
A hero may sacrifice themselves, presenting the audience with how sacrifice is noble.
That doesn't mean the character has to be literally ideal in the definition of every characteristic.
By making them perfect, you're only presenting that the status quo can't be changed, because you need to be perfect to do so.
However when an imperfect character achieves something it can assert that the status quo can be changed by imperfect people like us.
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>>64953154
He was comedic in the series.

He was actually legitimately interesting in the novel as it explained how he overcame Rimmer's character flaws to become Ace.
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>>64952773
Also the whole point of the movie was his development from the innocent country pumpkin teen to him growing up as he embarks on an adventure of galactic importance.
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>>64952966
Depends on when you're talking in the series. Herge got better at writing as he went on. Like Tintin in Tibet has 10/10 characterization where his flaw is the fact that he can't just fucking accept the fact that his friend has a 99.99% of being fucking dead out from being stranded in the goddamn Himalayas, and he's willing to risk his and Captain Haddock's lives over it. It ends up being a good thing in the end but makes good drama.
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>>64953117
The most popular and oldest relevant hero in human history is Jesus Christ, Try again.
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>>64953165
You basically just confirmed this
>>64953132
The stories are interesting, not the character. Want to try again?
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>>64952966
>tintin
>interesting
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>>64953223
>who is gilgamesh
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>>64952752

Why? It's true
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>>64952952
>>64952976
>>64952978
>>64953001
>gets captured by the enemy
>is a bitch to Finn
>gets wrecked in a fight, initially
>gets found by Han Solo

Luke got out of his Death Star situation just as easily.
>>
>>64953106
He's a former marine (insta hero) who does amazing amounts of charity work (more hero points) and is just a super nice guy all around
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>>64952952
hitler
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>>64953243
>relevant
>>
>did a good job at showing that space boy was relateable

>Mary Sue with nig lover
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>>64953223
>39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

Try again.
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>>64953117
Have you read the Epic of Gilgamesh? Rey is a damsel in distressed compared to him.
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>>64952752
This looks stolen from College Humor though
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So TFA fanboys are exaggerating Luke's whinging to try and make Rey's mary sueness look good? That's pretty desperate.
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>>64953236
That's what I meant; the Tintin stories are interesting because of the people around Tintin. As a (hero) character, he's pretty bland.
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>>64953223
even Christians find Jesus Christ boring.
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>>64953269
>Hated all Jews
>Ended up setting into motion a chain of events that let Jews have their own literal country for themselves

So perfect.
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Whats wrong with it, it's true.

The thing it doesn't include is Lukes arc and growth.

Rea had the issue of being pretty static through the whole movie because she was the best at everything at the start and the best at everything at the end.
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>>64952920
To be more relatable and human considering the vast majority of people have vices or issues with themselves
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>>64953223
And he didn't have flaws?
When he destroyed the market stands at the temple?
The man cried after the Last Supper, because he was afraid. The fact that he was human is one of the pillars of his divine nature, because of it's contradiction.
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>>64953333
Nope, zionists were working on acquiring their own country since the 19th century.
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>>64953267
Why are army whores insta heroes in Fatland?
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>>64953333

You know he actually wouldn't have minded that

he wanted Jews expelled from his country and national land first and foremost

The idea of trying to exterminate every last one on the planet is a meme
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>>64953360
Crying is a character flaw? Rey cries throughout.
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>>64953289
>, Gilgamesh selfishly indulges his appetites, raping whatever woman he desires, whether she is the wife of a warrior or the daughter of a noble—or a bride on her wedding night.
Come on son, this is just too easy.
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>>64953373
Because freedom isn't free
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>>64953360
>When he destroyed the market stands at the temple?
This isn't a flaw. This is a simple action.
>The man cried after the Last Supper
Crying isn't a flaw.
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Rey a cute, not like that faggot Luke.
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>>64953270
more than you think
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>>64953404
When does Rey cry even once?

Nevermind, the whole conversation stems from an anon asserting that a hero doesn't need any flaws at all, rather than a comparison to Rey.
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>>64953405
This wasn't a flaw in 3,000 BC, it just meant that he's a badass above petty morality. It's not something that served to make him less powerful.
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>>64953398
this
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>>64953333

Only because he let the Luftwaffles get pwned by the Britfags and then thought the invasion of Russia'd be a good idea. Were he a wee bit more somber in his planning, the Nzais would stretch from Lisabon to half of Warsaw. Must've been the cocaine and meth he was taking daily.
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>>64953446
I wasn't thinking about you, so I guess you're right there.
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>>64953223
>what is withering the olive tree
>what is Gethsemane
>what is "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Not even a Christfag.
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>>64953404
Of course it fucking is.
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>>64953254
>is a bitch to Finn
uh no, she just didn't jerk him off.
>gets wrecked in a fight
I don't remember this.
>gets found by Han Solo
who just so happens to be exactly who she needs to meet and it's of no fault of her own because how the fuck is she supposed to know it has a tracker and how the fuck is she supposed to care when she just wanted to use the ship to escape the attack.
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>>64953451
Yes it was.
The beginning of the Epic is how much a faggot Gilgamesh was that the people pray to the gods for someone to deliver them from his faggotry.
Have you even read it?
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>>64953448
She cries like 3 or 4 times. When Kylo Ren is mind raping her, when Han Solo dies, when she thinks that Finn is dead, and she gets slightly teary when she finds Luke.
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>>64953333

nice quads bro :^)
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>>64953451
Flawed doesn't equal less powerful. Even if people of the day somewhat admired his actions, they were still unfitting of a civilized king and thus a flaw.
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>>64953254
>Luke got out of his Death Star situation just as easily.
Because the Empire intentionally let him escape so he would lead them back to the rebel base. You call that a victory? He won in the end, but he nearly doomed the rebels.
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>>64953434
Destroying the market is a flaw because it contradicts his message of peace.
Crying contradicts his divine nature.
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>>64953132
Kinda like Luke Skywalker
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>>64953333
Not canon
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>>64953514
I read it in high school. All I remember is Enkidu dying, and some other bullshit.
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>>64952899
Whats the problem? You turned this board into exactly what you're crying about tourist
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>>64952752

>I BYPASSED IT :^D

Every Rey scene, how can this shit be tolerable? Bad enough she was a Mary Sue but the writers practically gloat about it, no wonder Harrison Ford wanted out.
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>MUH HERO NEEDS FLAWS
Achilles. Literally the most renowned hero on earth for thousands of years. No flaws.

Try again prequel-friends
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>>64953638
His heel.
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>>64953638
I'll take Achilles heel for 5000
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>criticizing luke for having parents that did their job

liberals everyone
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>>64953638
nice!
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What exactly is a flaw? An innate character trait, or something that happens to the character that can be considered bad? If the latter is the case, then she's clearly flawed.
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>>64953638
The term Achilles' Heel, which means having a crippling flaw, literally stems from his story.
>>
Rey living alone would have been raped and murdered long ago.

The movie was a whole new level of fairy tale.
>>
>people making comparisons to legendary heroes

How is this even relevant

It's fucking Star Wars, an episodic soap opera

Ofc development is necessary, it's the crux of the entire saga, you don't need to cite Greek myth as an example, use the previous 6 movies, which all feature character development for the leads and are predicated on teamwork and complementary strengths

7 was boring as fuck because it was basically the Rey Show ft. Heavy Breathing Cornball Nigga
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>>64953339

The intent behind it. They think this pic shows that Rey is a better character, which simply isn't true.
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>>64953675
>>64953677
You don't know about his heel until the moment it kills him retard. How does that make him relatable?

But seriously now that I think about it I suppose arrogance was his flaw.
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I am literally disgusted right now guy, if I had lunch already I would be puking
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>>64953638
He was such a butthurt faggot he refused to participate in the Trojan War and even prayed against Greece until his LITERAL buttbuddy got killed.

Plus
>>64953725
you dumb faggot.
>>
>>64953001
But Superman loses and is morally trumped by Batman a good number of times but everyone still loves him
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>>64952952
Cumberman's Sherlock

>Interesting

wait, nevermind
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>>64953708
Former. Having bad things happen to you isn't a flaw. How you deal with them is how you know if you have a flaw or not.

In the case of Rey, she gets mind-raped by Kylo, which isn't a flaw, but resists it then immediately deus ex machina her way out of the interrogation room.
>>
>>64953675
>>64953677
Achilles had lots of flaws beyond his heel (also, I'm pretty y'all got trolled).

There was the time he killed the Amazon queen, and as he was dying, he fell in love with her.
Another Greek soldier laughed at him and called him a faggot, so Achilles killed him.

Lots of flaws there.
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>>64953746

and here I was thinking they were making fun of her Mary Sue-ness
>>
>>64952752
Women and minorities are the weaker hands in society. They subsist on the scraps that white men throw them.
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>>64953638
Achilles had many flaws though, he had temper problems, threw tantrums, was a dumbass who angered the GREEK GODS and was gay
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>>64953775
If that's the case then most Super heroes don't have any flaws. Their relateability come from their situation, not their lack of skill or personality flaws.
>>
OP's pic is a good comparison, but it's what makes Luke a good character.

All good heroes need to start out with imperfections.

Like take look at Toy Story.

>Woody starts out as a fucking asshole who can't imagine a world where he isn't like the king of the toys.

>Buzz shows up and Woody starts feeling jealous of how everybody fawns over him.

>He decides to get rid of Buzz, but ends up throwing him out the window instead by accident.

>All the other toys hate Woody for doing this and he loses his leadership position.

>The only way Woody can gain the respect of his friends is by getting him and Buzz back to Andy's room

>And the only way he can do that is by cooperating with Buzz, the guy he fucking hates.

Do you see this? The entire plot is fueled by Woody's flaws and forcing him to confront his shitty personality. Him struggling to get back to Andy's room is like a purgatory where he has to realize and then and grow past his obsession with being a leader and his insecurity over it.

This is what Star Wars 7 struggles with: there is no place for these characters to grow. Maybe Finn will learn to stop being a fucking liar, but other than that the characters are motivated exclusively by defeating Evil Empire 2: Electric Boogaloo and by nothing personal or psychological. They are nice people that have fun dialogue, but are super stale because they can always finish the job perfectly

.
>>
Give up neo wannabe hipsters.

TFA is shit.
>>
>>64953857
Yes, and that's why many superheroes are boring as shit.

The most classic character arc is

Bad shit happens to someone - they get fucked up by it - they work their way back up and finally overcome it in the end.

The fact that they failed in the first place is an indication that they're flawed, because it means they have something to overcome before they can attempt the same situation and win.

Having something bad happen to you, but there's nothing you could possibly do to prevent it isn't characterization. However, having something bad happen to you, having seemingly nothing you can do to prevent it, but then asspulling something to save you, is terrible characterization.
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>>64952752
>Dorkly
This is known webshit.
>>
>>64953857
You really just have no idea what you're talking about. Marvel grew to the prominence it is today through providing interesting characters that actually had flaws as opposed to DC's (at the time) more boring archetype good guys. Literally any classic marvel character you can think of was built on this formula (Aside from Captain America, being made before Timely had re-branded to Marvel).
>>
>>64953857
most superheroes are very flawed and act like retards though, specifically marvel heroes
>>
> ITT plebs use shit tier characters & straw men to justify their love for Mary Sue Rey

lol

It's ok to admit you love shit writing and Mary Sue heroes.

dumb masses love TFA

plebs gonna bleb
>>
This whole thread is trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls
>>
>>64953069
Saitama has a massive flaw: he is shit at video games.
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>>64954094
How have you come to this conclusion?
>>
>>64952752
Why does this make you puke exactly?

>Luke grew up with aunt and uncle, working on a farm and piloting crop dusters in rough terrain. random ace pilot that force pushes a torpedo into a death star after training for all of 20 seconds which included swinging a light sword a little

>Rey grows up abandoned on a battle scarred planet whose primary economy revolves around scrap collection of destroyed ships from the final days of the Empire and corrupt business men.

What she accomplishes is not far-fetched. But I understand the frustration that she never gets faced with the problems that don't correlate to her skill set.
>>
>>64953001
>everyone hates Superman

He's more of an American icon than Captain America is.
>>
>>64953962
>Bad shit happens to someone - they get fucked up by it - they work their way back up and finally overcome it in the end.
This is Rey's basic story arc. If it suggests flaws, then she has flaws.
>>
>>64954164
As is Mickey Mouse. Would you call him an interesting character? Of course, its a somewhat moot point since Superman has flaws these days.
>>
>>64953466
Nazis were gonna get rekt by Russians anyway sooner or later. It was unavoidable.
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>>64954227
go ahead and write that layout for both Rey and Luke. I want to see how you think Rey even remotely fits within that arc, because she doesn't.
>>
>>64954227
Did you miss the last sentence ?

> random ace pilot that force pushes a torpedo into a death star after training for all of 20 seconds which included swinging a light sword a little


They make a point that he's actually a good fighter, able to hit womprat or whatever with his small ship, and that he'd like to sign up in an imperial pilot training facility.

>Rey grows up abandoned on a battle scarred planet whose primary economy revolves around scrap collection of destroyed ships from the final days of the Empire and corrupt business men.

She didn't even have the "20 seconds of training" yet defeats a sith in single combat.
>>
The punchline here is that, at the end of the day, the movie starring the girl on the right was all about looking for the guy on the left.
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>>64952966
He's a faggot
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>>64952952
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>>64954561

holy shit you are right
>>
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>>64952952
This guy
>>
I haven't watched TFA, yet. AMA.
>>
>>64954523
The film establishes that she's a proficient fighter when Finn first finds her on Jakku.
>>
I long await the day that Rey is revealed to be a Sith Lord.
>>
A new hope would be way more dope if Luke started out no scoping storm troopers and saved ben kenobi. Weak characters are like so lame.
>>
>>64954523
>Kylo
>Sith

You faggots really need to stop.
>>
>>64954716
Do you live under a rock?
>>
>>64954833
He's on the spectrum though.
>>
>>64952952
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
>>
>>64954992
Read the replies first senpai.
>>
>>64954757
> Can use the force adequately
> Has his own light saber he built himself
> Has a sith master, following the rule of two
> Is in charge of large battalions of storm troopers

You should stop moving the goal post in order to make Rey not quite as ridiculously broken. He was a sith, perhaps not a strong one, but still one.
>>
>>64953015
It was on Facebook...
>>
>>64955291
Kylo isn't a sith, him and ssssnok are a new type of evil bad guys that aren't sith

I think that was anon's point
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>>64953638
>ACHILLES
>NO FLAWS
YOU FUCKING WHAT.
DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THE CORE CONCEPTS OF ACHILLES AND GREEK MYTHOLOGY AS A WHOLE, YOU DEGENERATE CULTURAL POLLUTANT?
>>
>>64955291
He's still not a Sith.

>>64955412
>new type

There are plenty of dark Jedi in EU. It is not something new just because Disney made it non-canon.
>>
>>64952952
Is that why people find my uninteresting? Because I have no flaws?
>>
>>64955586
Yes. You're a special one. Only one in the world.
>>
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>>64955469
>eating the b8 this hard
>>
>>64952773
>Typical plebs that don't understand that a hero NEEDS flaws
Things plebs say
>>
>>64952773
If the story isn't about the hero's character development and instead about whatever happens around the hero then having flaws for the hero isn't all that necessary.
>>
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>>64952976
>2016
>psychoanalycucks
>>
>>64955291
What proof do you have that snoke is a sith master? I don't think either of them are siths, just dumb jerks. Snoke is probably plagueis tho but right now we don't know
>>
>>64954124
memes
>>
>>64954833
Autism is a flaw.
>>
>spend years making fun of 'perfect' Mary Sue characters that can do no wrong
>suddenly it's okay when Disney does it

What happened?
>>
>>64956675
But it makes its audience relate to him
>>
>>64952920
Go back to /a/
>>
>>64953502
That's called looking sad not crying you retard. I remember those scenes and not a single tear was dropped.
>>
>>64952952
Rey from ep7
>>
>>64952952
Yes, I can
>>
>>64953158
That's because he's part of a living meme, like Ron Paul or Donald Trump.
>>
>>64957537
>bleeds out of her vagina and turns into a giant cunt every month
>>
>>64952752
> hero starts out as an unstoppable badass with zero development or arc

wow, such a great hero ;^)
>>
>>64955826
too bad star wars is about the monomyth

without character transformation it's totally pointless
>>
/tv/ is the board that can't stop talking about some shitty generic hero's journey flick series that is made for children. at least 9gag is mostly children.
>>
>>64957870
Most people are here for an echo chamber to force le hot funny memes.

When you get right down to it, /tv/ and 9gag are not so different.
>>
>>64952752
BIG
>>
>>64958044
>>
>>64952752
>bringing this trash to /tv/

I really fucking hate new-/tv/ som- most days.
>>
>>64952752
>going to normie meme sites
>>
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>>64952752
all you little boys with no dicks whining about a girl who intimidates you

top fucking kek
>>
>>64952966
he's a racist
the worst flaw of all
>>
>>64952952
Superman.
>>
>>64958173
neo/tv/ is just spam

i maybe find 1-2 threads per day that meet old /tv/ level discussion or not full of normie or underage retard 'banter'
>>
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>>64952920
they are boring without them
>>
>>64958280

>skinny little chipmunk faced womanlet
>intimidating

that was part of the problem

they tried to play her off as badass and I just couldn't see it

>Rey makes a le mean face
>>
>>64952931
Poe was good, for what little we saw of him.
>>
>>64958366
Wasn't kryptonite made his weakness literally so that Superman could have a flaw?
>>
>>64957870
where is the superior location to which you go to discover superior film choices friend
>>
>>64952752
but Rey is a grill so she's automatically better =3
>>
>>64954145

He didn't push shit.

The Force guided his aim. He had been practicing seeing through the Force there on the Falcon. That's what the blast shield was about: teaching him to stretch out with his feelings to see the remote.

All of this is right there in the dialogue for the scene, too. It's not like they try to keep any of it a secret. When he uses the Force at the trench, he's not doing shit to the torpedoes: he's just letting the Force guide his own aim, since we already saw before that Red Leader's targeting computer only got him as far as a surface hit: not good enough.

In the briefing they explained that a direct hit on the exhaust port would start a chain reaction that would destroy the reactor. The torpedoes aren't flying all the way inside, they're just hitting something very important just inside the port.
>>
>>64952931

Finn had incredible potential to be a great character.

But I can pinpoint exactly the moment it all fell apart.

>Why are you helping me?
>Because it's the right thing to do.

I would have loved it if they'd just cut to the next scene right here and kept Finn's concept running along these lines, but then

>...You need a pilot.
>I need a pilot.
>We're gonna do this.
>Yeah?

You sarcastic faggot Abrams I will kill you for this

And then Finn just turns into sassy sarcastic comic relief black sidekick for the rest of the movie.

God fucking dammit.
>>
>>64953223
>all the shit before Jesus didn't happen
>>
>>64952920
Because that's what the Hero's Journey is literally about. Someone starts out from being a no one and becomes a fully realised hero over the course of the story.
>>
>>64953254

The Death Star in ANH was a team effort all the way.

Chewie gets them into the detention block by playing prisoner.

All three of them clear the block.

Luke finds Leia.

Leia finds a way out.

The droids save them from trash compactor.

Han and Chewie get most of the stormtroopers' attention running through the halls.

Leia covers Luke while he digs out the cable.

Luke swings them to safety.

And finally Obi-Wan deactivates the tractor beam and holds off Vader.

The problem with Rey isn't that she's really good at everything, the problem is that nobody else has anything to do. People get in trouble, Rey gets them out. Rey gets in trouble, she gets herself out. There is no team here, just a bunch of useless idiots Rey saves over and over.
>>
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>a hero needs flaws to be interesting
>>
>>64960931
You are a retard.
>>
>>64960790
No but you see they were totally useful!
Like the janitor who knew enough about the single most important and powerful space station he was cleaning up, to know what you need to blow up to make the entire thing collapse in on itself.
And the Han gang, who heroically turned off the shield, by abducting an officer who had no personal guard, but yet somehow had the clearance to turn of the one thing protecting the skin deep weak point of the death star, namely the shield, which at the same time cannot be trivially turned back on by someone else.
Oh and of course the princess-general, who managed to get together a ragtag team of freedom fighters, rallying them against this new threat, but of course somehow less well equiped than back when they were an illegal group with 0 government backing.
There's so much team work, isn't there.

>>64960931
>Saitama
>Has no flaws
He's a neet with invulnerability and the power of a supernova in his fists.
The only reasons he has for being proactive, is a) he spots someone who might be a challenge, or b) he wants to impress his friend(s).

I mean he is great, but he does have flaws.
>>
>>64953638

Achilles's stupid asshole pride significantly delays the end of the war and gets a ton of Greeks killed, including his best buddy Patroclus.

He then parades Hector's corpse around like an asshole, getting everybody mad at him.

And finally he gets killed by Hector's little bro with a single shot to the heel.

You bet your ass Achilles has flaws.
>>
>>64960931

>Bald
>No flaws

Pick one my mane
>>
>>64960931
>posts saitama
the irony
>>
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>>64955639
>Thinking someone who replies with pic related to b8, isn't just poking fun at the bait
>>
>>64959843
Finn just wanting to save his own skin was great, and an important part of his development
>>
>>64954628

Anti-Social Maniac who only knows how to speak in puns/quips
>>
>>64961483

Yeah, but it's so cliche and it doesn't really fit his stormtrooper background.

The guy never acts like he's experienced any sort of military training or indoctrination at all. There's so much that could have been done with this idea of a stormtrooper who suffers an attack of conscience and is torn between the life he's always known and doing the right thing, and they could have set up an incredible confrontation with Phasma near the end.

I thought that was what they were going for at the beginning, too, with that scene in the lander where Finn takes off his helmet for the first time and Phasma sneaks up on him, but then he just turns into this comical coward.
>>
>>64953638

Did you even read the first line of the Iliad?
>>
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>>64953001
>>64958366

>Superman
>Flawless

In terms of abilities he's poisoned by Kryptonite, and he's completely vulnerable to Magic or Magic enhanced items

Also, he has to live double life so his social life is a bit of a mess, and you could argue he's completely naive about the world.
>>
>>64961605
>it's so cliche and it doesn't really fit his stormtrooper background.

That's why he was essentially a janitor for them...he wasn't fit to be a soldier
>>
>>64952920
It's the very nexus of western storytelling, as far back as the greek tragedies that these kind of films are basically based off
>>
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>>64961773

Also, its not like Clark never gets angry or frustrated.
>>
>>64961773
Isn't it a version of Superman who also punches existece so hard, that he breaks it, erasing an infinite amount of universes along with infinite lifeforms?
>>
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>>64952752
>demographics in one picture
Just wow...
I can't remember how log has it been, but in a last year I heard word Spoilers enough to start hating this culture.
One more thing. Respect to 9 gag devs for milking this cow for so long. Damn 8/10
>>
>>64961799

He worked sanitation at Starkiller Base, but they considered him fit for the assault on the village, and even after he went AWOL and Phasma and Hux were talking about it they mentioned he'd never previously shown any signs of non-compliance -- this was his first offense.
>>
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>>64952952
Saitama

Just kidding, even HE has flaws.
>>
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>>64961898

Superboy Prime.

He's essentially as powerful as Pre-Crisis Superman was, who was essentially unbeatable and had a billion different powers because the Silver-Age was goofy as fuck (i.e. Super Ventriliquism, Super-Dancing, etc..)
>>
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>>64961773
>>
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>>64961898
>>64961972
>>
>>64953267
john cena isn't actually a former marine
>>
>>64954833
I liked how his Stand was literally just Cartman from the Fun With Weapons episode of South Park.

>Wait you guys, I just realized my stand also has that power, but even better than Kyle's!
>My Stand's power is... the power to have as many powers as I want!
>>
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>>64961898
>>64961972

Also, DC once temporarily lost the rights to Superboy, so they killed off Conner Kent (Superboy), and turned Superboy Prime into Superman Prime, who was essentially a living meme.

Then they got the rights back and turned him back into Superboy Prime (comics everybody)
>>
>>64953451

Being so arrogant that you become a serial raping tyrant, so much so that your people hate you, isn't a flaw?
>>
>>64958348
yeah because being racist is worse than being a heroin addict or a rapist

wew lad...
>>
>>64953622

>bypasses every problem

By the 9th movie she'll have learned to bypass the problem of a ship itself and learn how to fly at the speed of light without one.
>>
>>64962244
Well it depends who is the racist or rapist. A racist with power is worse than a rapist without.

and I mean political power more than capshit powers
>>
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>>64952752
Rian Johnson will have to remake Episode VII with Bel Powley as Luke's daughter.
>>
>>64953874

Well put
>>
>>64952920
Because the point of the hero's journey is to grow from his challenges.
>>
>>64962728
or get killed.
>>
>>64953424
It literally is.
Your worldly comforts, however, are not.

>do you even Walden, fgt?
>>
>>64962757
In the case of the tragedy, yes.
But usually this also gives insight for the viewer, as to the relation between the protagonist and everything else.
Usually a hero dies because of a choice he made. Either doing the wrong thing or doing the right thing and dying anyway.
>>
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>>64960931
>he doesn't think Saitama has flaws
>>
>>64960931
The entire joke of Saitama is that he wields the power of a god but is otherwise a pathetic loser with an okay personality.
>>
>>64953254

Disney is still trying THIS hard to prove TFA was better, or even on par, with any of the OT.
>>
>>64953077
Its literally the other way around
>>
>>64953243
A weird little puppet on a tricycle who owns a vagina table
>>
>>64953874
Just realized Toy Story is a retelling of Gilgamesh.
>Woody= Gilgamesh
>Buzz= Enkidu
>Sid= Humbaba
>>
>>64953077

No you idiot.

A perfect invincible hero is boring as shit because there's never any sort of suspense. Their victory is always perfectly assured and they never need to grow or struggle to overcome adversity.

The status quo doesn't change because perfect people came down from Olympus and fix everything, it changes because people try to change it even though it's hard and they might fuck up. A well-written hero is heroic because what they're doing is CHALLENGING, even for them, and stretches them to their limit, presenting the very real possibility of failure with potentially disastrous consequences.
>>
>>64952773
>muh pottery
Fuck off.
>>
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>>64963919
>>
I hate everything that Star Wars has become. I wasn't even a hardcore fan, but this shit is terrible I never want to talk to a Star Wars fan besides my uncle (who saw the OT and PT in theaters) ever gain holy fuck
>>
>>64963995
>entirely missing the point of the show
see all the replies to >>64960931
>>
>>64953223

I mean, Jesus really isn't very relateable, but the text does display him with flaws that are sort of retconned to not be flaws because he's God and for no other reason.

He flips out and wrecks market stalls in WRATH and ANGER. Violent anger is definitely a flaw.

He begs God to pick someone else in Gethsemane because he's AFRAID. Fear is a flaw.

He cries out at his death "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" displaying doubt. Doubt is a flaw when you're trying to tell a religious story.

He's an interesting character not in the moments when he is most godlike, but in the moments when he is most human.
>>
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>>64964059
>there's never any sort of suspense.
>entirely missing the point of the show

Also, if
>A perfect invincible hero is boring as shit

Explain, say, pic related.
>>
>>64964189

>being this illiterate

COME ON IT'S 201...6
>>
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>>64964189

>he thinks James Bond is flawless or invincible

You can just admit you've never seen a James Bond movie and have no idea what you're talking about at all, you know.
>>
>>64955918
DJELETE THIS!
>>
>>64964454

Facts are not a matter of "thinking". Only a complete drooling retard can go to watch a Bond movie entertaining the idea that Bond might possibly die or lose. And more importantly nearly always he is a static character who has no flaws to overcome either. And he does not need a team to cover his blind spots too, for lack of such.
>>
>>64964771
Bond constantly fucks up and the only reason why he survives by the end is that his opponents can't aim for shit, have terrible plans, and simply won't kill Bond when they have him at point blank range.
>>
>>64953267
The dogtags are his dads you dense mother fucker
>>
>>64964862
>He totally fucks up, except he doesn't.
>B-but If only he was in a different genre he would be dead!

Any more deep thoughts on unrealisticness of action heroes?

Also, you haven't actually addressed any of my points.
>>
>>64953290
It is.
>>
>>64962343
Honestly wouldn't even be surprised if she started force flying or some shit
>>
>>64952752
Well her tits are on the small side, and she looks like the xenomorph when she laughs, plus she hangs with niggers, which are pretty serious flaws tbqh familia.
>>
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>>64952952
>>
>>64965600
he thought he was in charge when he wasn't
>>
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>>64952952
Patrick Bateman

His skin care routine is second to none. He even has a slightly better haircut than Halberstram.
>>
>>64961325
You were just pretending to be retarded!
>>
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>>64953001
>John Cena
>>
>>64952752
Star wars is retarded period. It's a fucking fairy tale and not a good one at that.
>>
>>64965790
his flaw: his business card has no watermark
>>
>>64953032
Ghandi was racist as fuck towards us negro's, the fact that white people basically worship him still shows how racist white devils are.
>>
why do people pretend like Rey was a competent fighter when she fought those thugs.
>>
>>64954145
Luke piloted ships through canyons all the time as was known to be a great pilot. Kassel run?? Did you even watch any of the earlier films?
>>
>>64965058

The point is to create situations that LOOK suspenseful because the hero could fail.

Now, obviously no movie is going to kill its hero that early, but a movie has to enable suspension of disbelief by creating scenarios where that is a possible consequence, one that the hero fights off with difficulty.

If the hero always triumphs in every situation, there are ways to do that well, but if they always get out of every situation VERY EASILY, that's a much bigger problem.

The issue with Rey in TFA is not that she never loses, it's that she almost never looks like she might lose and is so hypercompetent that any time anyone gets into trouble, the only way to keep her from being the one to save them is to have her not be involved in the situation at all, through incapacitation or geographical distance. You can go through the movie: if she's conscious and present and someone else is in trouble, she will be the one who gets them out of it. She aims the entire Falcon with an insane drift move so Finn can shoot that TIE, she saves herself and Finn from the Falcon gassing them all, she releases the rathtars to save Han from the gangs, she saves Finn from the rathtar, she saves the Falcon from blowing up in hyperspace, she reverses the mind probe and busts herself out of jail with a sudden bullshit powers, she breaks the little fuse that opens all the doors in the oscillator so Han and Chewie can get in to plant the charges, and of course she beats Kylo Ren.

Han only gets to be the hero when Rey's not around, and Finn only gets to be the hero when neither Han or Rey are around. So Rey overshadows the entire rest of the party, and as the pattern sets in situations stop being suspenseful because it becomes obvious Rey will always save the day in every situation and everyone else is just a burden.
>>
>>64954145
Correcting myself. Not the kessel run that's han, but Luke used to pilot all the time, is what I'm getting at.
>>
>>64952752
.come to /tv/ after a week
>9gag thread

fuck this place, seriously
>>
>>64953289
dude fucking fails at his quest to attain immortality...twice
>>
>>64958348
Every person on Earth is racist. How brainwashed are you?
>>
>>64966244

This.

When watching TFA I had no doubt that even if Solo and Finn didn't show up at Starkiller base she'd find a way to deactivate the entire base, set a self-destruct and commandeer a spaceship to escape without even breaking a sweat.
>>
>>64965600
You didn't even watch the movie or read the book.
>>
A reminder that Rey is more capable than Indiana Jones.

Even Indy was afraid of snakes and needed other people to save him in a pinch.
>>
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>>64952952
>>
I love that these apparent Star Wars lovers are getting so desperate to defend Rey that they're actively going against Luke as a character in order to justify her writing.

Like, to make her look good, you apparently NEED to go back on Luke and make him look bad.
>>
>>64963888
I have never read gilgamesh because my shitty turdworld country does not sell copies.
Please summarize it for me
>>
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>>64966849

>hero

All I see is a milf who's retarded libfag opinions ruined the world for decades to come.
>>
>>64966962
sorry you didnt get the memo. If other things are bad, that makes it okay to be bad. And if something is worse, that makes you good!
>>
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>>64961157
>by abducting an officer who had no personal guard, but yet somehow had the clearance to turn of the one thing protecting the skin deep weak point of the death star, namely the shield, which at the same time cannot be trivially turned back on by someone else.

>The fiercely loyal captain who literally sold out everyone on the base the size of a planet to save her own skin, and then got thrown into a trash compactor and imploded
>>
>>64952773
First reply gets it. Luke is a great character. Rey is a power fantasy.
>>
>>64954833
But Jotaro is the least interesting JoJo protagonist.
>>
>>64952920
heres my problem with Rey, because of the way she is written every other character becomes irrelevant, in the OT luke has Leia and Han to lean on, because he needs it at times, this makes him a character able to grow and become great. Anakin has Obi-Wan to lean on and learn from, this makes it so he is not, despite everyone telling him he's the fucking chosen one, able to win all the damn time. Rey has Han solo a veteran fighter pilot, Chewie a veteran savage and Finn a trained soldier to lean on and get supported by. But she doesn't need anyone, ever. so Finn is made pointless Han becomes funny man reference guy and chewie becomes slapstick bear. every character serves only to further hammer in the fact that Rey is the greatest ever at everything and she dont need no one. Finn the character who should become her most trusted friend and capable ally is immediately bumped down to comic relief. Rey has no growth other than watch this character go from powerful and completely independent to over the top savior of the galaxy doing everything by herself. she is literally just like a my japanese anime main character and the movie and the sequels will suffer for it unless its changed
>>
>>64967040
That's because good is a point of view, anon
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