Drawing Improvement/Progress Thread Previous edition: >&

Here's to a brighter drawing future

sucks when a blank page is scary

>>9299826
May as well turn that fear into excitement. They're basically the same thing anyway.

>>9299721
Looking groovy there Bob

>>9299826
I always draw little gesture sketches or something small and in my comfort zone down the side of a fresh page. It's a good warm up and gets my head out of the idea that a clean page demands a perfect drawing.

Bumping for interest

rip

What colored pencils do you all use? Do you prefer wax or oil, or use both?

I've got Prismacolors, which are a bit shoddy but overall decent, though with their shitty lightfastness I'm not about to use them outside a sketchbook or anything that's going to be stored away.

I think I'll put gesture drawing to the side for a bit and actually read one of those books. Need those fundamentals.

Any tips on using perspective with figures?
I find it rather tough to keep them not super stiff but still in perspective, especially in more complex positions or views.

>>9304862
Do perspective exercises and place figures in boxes.

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>>9306766
Forgot my pic.

>>9306766

how do i see the figure after it's in the box

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>>9307362
Make the box transparent.

Man with all the tutorials out there I feel rather overwhelmed to be honest.
Is it better to just focus on one area to practice at a time?

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bait

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pizza bob

Is there a "skill cap" for drawing? I've been studying and practicing diligently for months, and I haven't seen any improvement. Is there just something wrong with my approach, or is it possible I just can't improve?

>>9308676
You can always learn more, though most of your progress will be when you first start out. You're probably not practicing correctly. Post what you're struggling with.

How do I get folds and creases in clothes right?

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>>9299721
Bob Ross died for our sins

>>9308676
>Is there a "skill cap" for drawing?
No.

>>9308676
there's always ways to improve, see your mistakes and face them head-on

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>>9308770

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>>9309406

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>>9309423

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>>9309433

>>9308770

with an iron

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>>9309538
well you're not wrong

>>9308117
>Is it better to just focus on one area to practice at a time?
Well you should spend enough time on something to actually learn/study it.
But it's probably not a good idea to spend too much time on perfecting one skill. If you anatomy knowledge is great but your perspective is very poor, your drawing will still look like ass.
Also maybe just draw often and evaluate often what you should study next.

>>9308676
Post your stuff, preferably prior and after the months of practice. Maybe people will give you some advice what to do next or words of encouragement if you actually made some progress but just can't see it.

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>>9306779
More perspective practice. Paths are a godsend.

>>9309538
I tried this and my paper burned. Is there a tutorial for this technique?

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>>9313390
>draw a dick
>now the rest of the tiger

>>9313889
kek

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Pathetic bump

>>9315758

>le boobies hurt :((((( meme

do a row you daft cunts

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Man I don't think this is even relevant to what I want anymore. Last thread I posted a reference image and was trying to practice on forming the shapes of a face. This is still an improvement from my second attempt but I can't help but feel like I've gone down a path I have no interest in. I'm not interested in doing anything photo-realistic, and this seems like a step in that general direction (by no means am I claiming this drawing is photo-realistic, fuck no it isn't).

I guess I can try putting what I've learned out of this into practice on something i'm a little more interested in. But I don't really know where to start haha.

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18x24 acrylic on ur mother's thigh how am i doing guys

>>9318121
That IS practice. You're training to see and render, and you're not good at either. So it's good practice.

But if you're not having fun with it, try something else. Get a reference of something you like to draw an copy that. You won't get far unless you derive some enjoyment out of it.

>>9322770
Shit.
I find myself not enjoying anything these days.

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>>9323157
I get burnt out sometimes when I work a lot on my drawings, then I need a couple of days off. I dunno how you feel, but maybe take a break from drawing for a while and come back to it with a fresh mind.

There are dozens, hundreds of hours of monotonous work practicing before you can get to a good level. If you can't put up with that, you're not going to reach any heights.

FZD has been incredibly inspirational for me in the past few days. I've been looking at the stuff their first term students have put out, and it's amazing what you can get done in just a few weeks.
https://fengzhudesign.blogspot.com/2013/12/fzd-student-work-term-01-trains-cars.html

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>>9324571
I don't even know anymore. I always feel like I'm wasting my time explaining or even trying to understand why I don't feel motivated to do anything.

I don't care about impressing anyone, competing with anyone, any of that bullshit.

The only thing I have ever wanted is that flow. That wondrous ability to bring something out of my mind out onto a surface in some way that isn't visually revolting.

That ability to share my little ideas and really create something.

The only thing that every step on this path has taught me is that I'm not good enough, and I'll repeat this now in case I didn't make it clear: I'm not trying to impress anyone.
I just take what people say for face value.

It's like I don't retain anything. I can come back to the very few skills I picked up in highschool art class, but that's it. Everything after that feels like nothing.

I know this isn't what the thread is for and you've all heard this same kind of bullshit anyway. It would be an empty apology to say I'm sorry because I'm going to go ahead and click submit anyway.

>>9324754
That ability to draw something which is visually appealing is a skill, which needs to be trained. You can gain that skill, but it takes a lot of work. If you don't retain anything, it's either because you are not being analytical of what you are studying or you haven't practiced enough, or both. People underestimate just how much work you have to do and how much you have to think about what you are trying to do.

If you're not willing to tolerate the learning process, with all the monotony, mistakes and hurdles you have to overcome, then drawing is not that important to you.

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>>9324754
Just draw stuff you want to draw then
Putting away your ideas "until you're good enough" is stupid because: a) there's no real level when you're "good enough" so it's possible to put something away for later forever b) you can always re-draw them later when you get better

>>9308676
Honestly, being your worst critic can be the best thing. I dunno if it's typical "depressed artist" syndrome, but I always seem to spot flaws and (try) task myself with drawing them more. Hell, some days I'm too stupid to properly study and I just redraw the same fucking thing over and over until I get it right, and then I take notes about what I did differently for me to not hate the drawing.

Also, improvements will never be gradual. You'll have peaks and plateaus. It'll always be erratic as fuck. Trying to grind though it doesn't work. One day you'll wake up, start drawing and something will "click", and all of a sudden the things you didn't understand and all the information that didn't seem like it stuck just comes together.

Just try and have fun, really, and remember to draw things you enjoy along with things you think need to be studied. Don't stress over not improving, it'll happen.

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>>9299721
Hey, here's what I'm working on, can someone give me advice on the 3/4 view of a face? I was directed here from the MS paint thread. Thanks so much!

>>9328879
>One day you'll wake up, start drawing and something will "click", and all of a sudden the things you didn't understand and all the information that didn't seem like it stuck just comes together.
this tbhfam

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>>9325972
I've been writing different response to what you're saying for almost an hour and I still can't find out how I feel about it.

My job is monotonous, boring, and full of mistakes (which I've learned from). And it isn't important to me at all. But I'm still "good at it". I still get the job done, I'm not even really upset when people have me finish their jobs for them. All I get is "thank you", and even THAT isn't important to me.

I'm good at a lot of things that I really don't care about at all. In fact I feel like that's how I've got through most of my life.

I love artwork. Stories, animation, drawings. They are the only things I've ever found myself looking forward to. I know I'm just getting defensive because it feels like you're telling me drawing isn't important to me.

It seems more like you're either suggesting maybe I haven't accepted that about myself (or, because this is 4chan, you're just trying to discourage me)

But I have absolutely nothing else to live for. I can overcome difficulty for things that I have no choice about, and I can overachieve. But here I have my own judgement, my own opinion of myself, my actions and the results. And it just falls apart, it becomes a waste of time, an unending cycle of self-loathing.

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>>9330519
Didn't mean to discourage you per se, but I meant to be harsh. I do think you need some thick skin to be a good artist. Lately I've been militant about how I'm learning how to draw. Personally, while I still consider myself a novice, I have my sights set very high. So I'm harsh on myself when I don't put in effort to study, and for a long time I didn't put in effort. And I still don't put in as much effort as I should. But I've noticed that the longer I force myself to study, the easier it is to pull off some good practice sessions.

I have felt the same way you did for a while. I think most artists go through those feelings. At some point you become numb to it and it takes a back seat and becomes an occasional nag inside your head.

I don't know how much effort you put into it. Maybe you really do work a lot on your art and it's not giving results, but I seriously doubt that there are many people in the world who can't make decent progress. Like I can see some progress between your last portraits you posted. You're definitely capable, but there's something holding you back.

If you posted more about your efforts to learn, maybe we can steer you in a better direction.

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How do you stop that soul crushing feeling of wanting to kill yourself when everyone (rightfully) criticizes your art you spent a lot of time on, and you slowly realize your work wasn't as good as you thought it was? I'm seriously about to have a mental breakdown.

>>9329720
I mean, what kind of advice you want? It's stylized but it looks okay, I guess?
You might want to make the perspective on her eyes less extreme, unless that's what you were going for

>>9331566
By getting shit on enough that you no longer feel anything.
if you seriously can't take it you give up or stop showing your work and never improve.

>>9331566
Why do you get upset over it in the first place

>>9331637
I'll keep that in mind.

>>9331746
Because during the drawing process I thought it was going to be the greatest piece of artwork ever. Sadly I was mistaken.

>>9331566

post it for keks

>>9331566
Get feedback as you're drawing it, especially in the early stages when you're not attached to it.

>>9331844
Well stop having unrealistic expectations about your art then
And yeah, early feedback is good, though not always possible

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>>9330907
The worry right now is about being steered in the wrong direction. But I can at least talk about it.

I've been focusing on trying to breakdown anatomy for the purpose of character design. I've tried a few different books from the /ic/ sticky (namely loomis and dodson books), Dodson helped a little bit but loomis was just a huge mistake that took my thinking in a bad direction.

My end goal is to be able to bridge the gap between some anime styles and more cartoony art styles, but I know most people say artstyle isn't something you work on until after you build a foundation in the fundamentals.

Anyway, for a while I was doing upwards of fifteen to thirty gesture drawings every chance I get (I've only got around 2 hours of free time to myself each day typically), I have a general idea of how to break them down so I feel I'm in a good position for breaking down bodily anatomy. But I can't really attach a face to a body without it being disproportionate and unfitting.

So right now my goal is to try and figure out how to breakdown and sketch faces and heads. I've studied skull anatomy a little bit but not enough to know what kind of variances there can realistically be. I want to bring myself to a level where I can draw heads and faces as fluidly as some of my better gesture drawings. To me that's like having two of the building blocks I need to get into character design.

Thanks to the person who linked Sycra last thread, really helpful videos he got.

>>9332240
I'd suggest peeking into basic human anatomy before grinding one million gestures for whatever reason
Gestures are loose drawings but they're supposed to capture the most important elements of the pose
I'm not an expert (my gesture drawings are still awful) but it seems like your gesture drawings miss the point, because they're not just sketchy, but many lines seem to be relatively aimless

>>9334857
Wait so gesture drawings arent supposed to be sketchy? I thought the point was to loosen up the wrist. I studied anatomy quite a lot and im fine with going back to it, but copying what I see in anatomy books just puts me in the habit of drawing extremely stiff.

Doing gesture drawings always felt really fluid and nice. It seems like the reason my lines look aimless is because im trying not to stiffen up while im following references.

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>tfw you're asked to show off your pictures in a group chat full of people better then you only for them to say "nice" and move on too the actual good people

boop

>>9335924
not him, but gesture is borderline stick figures, with the main aim of capturing the "flow" and energy of the figure. Gestures are never stiff, nor do they need to be anatomically correct, but they do need to have energy and some form of readability. You're trying to communicate a pose or action with as few lines as possible, then you use that gesture or gestures as a base for a proper figure drawing.

It's idea brainstorming with as little brainstorming as possible. You get a bunch of gestures done quickly, don't stress over what it's going to be. Gestures should be knocked out in 10 seconds or so, then you take the best ones and build on them.

If you're a filthy pirate (like me), go download Glenn Vilppu's video series on gesture and figure drawing. He explains it really well. Michael Hampton touches on gesture nicely as well.

>>9338098
>tfw too antisocial to join art discords in the first place
Plus depression always stops me from showing my work off. I don't think I'll ever be happy till I can get what I draw to look exactly like what I see in my head.

>>9340617
I have no idea why I attempted joining in the first place and did nothing for my inferiority complex. I should have waited. Now I'm basically hiding from them due to feeling pathetic.

>>9340617
I mean, what you're explaining is almost exactly what I thought gesture drawing was until that other guy mentioned that I should look into anatomy more.

But I'm getting pretty damn off track because I wanted to work on my facial construction to be up to speed with my anatomy and figure drawings.

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>>9340646
It's okay. I added an artist on skype years and years ago (before I started taking drawing more seriously) and he was miles ahead of me at the time, and I was always anxious to share anything with him because I knew my skill level was low and was afraid I was just wasting his time.

Thankfully he quit skype and uses discord now, so I don't have to deal with the shame. Last I heard he's one of Kazerads art biffles. Even helped out on some pages for Prequel.

>>9340674
I'd say your gestures are only really suffering from readability at the moment. You've got the line of action and for the most part the poses aren't stiff, which is good, but I think you'd benefit from using a softer/pressure sensitive brush. Harsh thin lines like yours all bunched up makes a mess of an otherwise decent gesture.

So I'd say you're on the right path. I should probably state that "stick figures" is subjective. It's important to not draw the actual form/outline of the figure. It's all about getting the energy right. You can do that with more filled out gestures, but "stick figure"-tier gestures will get the job done just as well (and it's also how I learned). Then from there, you build up your gesture with proper anatomical features and proportions.


Also I guess I might as well post a sketch. I finally got a drawing tablet after years of pencil and paper. It's definitely more fun to use so far.

>>9341004
You like your saggy funbags?

>>9341163
saggy, perky, flat n big
A true lover loves them all.

>>9341249
Well they could use a bit more volume in my opinion. Sag is amazing, but if they turn into thin tubes they don't really look nice anymore. But that's me.

>>9341604
I've drawn all sorts of breast shapes before, but I am extremely biased towards more natural looking tits or smaller looking ones.
I blame weaver for shoving this shit on me.

>>9332240
puu sh/vQs83/b84d64fc62.torrent

Here's a torrent of Proko's figure drawing course. He has a few dozen examples of gesture drawings in the gesture folder. Take one example and do it multiple times. Study the subject and the gesture, copy his gesture, then draw along with him then draw it by yourself. Compare your results with his. See what sticks out as mistakes. Repeat until you get good results. You don't have to copy his lines perfectly. This helped me and my understanding of gestures.

Also, you need more than a 'general idea.' You need tons of practice. It's really easy to think you know something at a theoretical level and then fail when you try to put it into practice. Do study all the building blocks for character design, but spend more time studying all the fundamental skills: gesture, proportion, perspective, construction, value etc because you are lacking in all of those and it's those things which will open you up to everything you want to draw. You can't do design effectively without having those fundamental skills.

>>9342001
Not him, but what's even the best way to study all of those indivually?

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I'm working on a request and I have to give him a bombs on the other side of his vest, but due to his proportions his neck gets in the way of the top-most bomb. How should I go about this?

>>9342133
Give him only 3 bombs on each side?

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>>9342070
If you mean individually as in focus on one subject for a long time, then I wouldn't recommend it. I tried that and didn't feel like I was progressing too well. I feel like I'm getting more out of studying if I practice 2-3 different things per practice session.

But if you mean the process of studying each, the general answer is practice. Read an apply what you've learned. You learn more tricks by practicing and that develops your understanding of that subject.
Gesture - Read and gain a basic understanding of the ideas of gestures: flow, CSI lines, cross contours, exaggeration. Read any of Loomis, Vlippu, Hampton. Start practicing immediately after you learn something new. Don't just read everything and then practice.
Proportion - Get a body proportion chart and copy it multiple times until you get it right. Draw it from memory until you get it right. Then draw it from different angles. Then draw it in perspective (once you are more familiar with that).
Construction - Study perspective first to get a feel for planes, boxes and cylinders in 3d space. Read a book on how to simplify body parts into these 3d shapes. I personally love reading Bridgman. Get a reference and apply these shapes directly on top of it. Take an empty canvas and create a gesture of your reference, then add construction to your gesture.
Perspective - Get any tutorial on perspective. Almost all of them give you the same info. I'd read Scott Robertson.
Value - I'm not that familiar with values actually, so I'm not sure what to recommend. I've mostly experimented by myself and doing studies. I've heard that master studies of sculptures are a great way to learn values cause shadows on stone look really nice. Maybe do that. Oh, one cool thing you can try out is Sycra's value game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5zVFlMQZEs
There used to be a link to an actual coded game made by one of his fans (it's in one of the comments), but it looks like the page no longer works.
Also this tutorial.

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>>9342440

>>9342440
Alright thanks, looks like I did a lot of that already then.
I guess the next question then is: When do you know that you are "done" with them and can focus on something else?
Or are you just supposed to always and forever until you die study fundamentals on the side?

>>9342536
I dunno man. I'm nowhere near 'done' with those subjects. But I think most of them you can safely study for a long time and expect improvement. Like gesture for sure is a lifelong pursuit. I guess once you are able to draw what you want comfortably then you are at a good enough level and can focus on deeper subjects.

>>9342353
Well he's cosplaying as Junkrat from Overwatch so I'm trying not to deviate too much from the original design.

>>9331566
post your works and I will legit give you feedback

>>9342001
But I'm trying to practice construction for heads, that's what I want to work on right now. I've spent a long time working on gestures already and I understand I need more work, but even YOU say that you shouldn't focus on one subject for a long time. I'm asking for advice on constructing heads, not gestures, I wasn't even throwing them into question. I know they need work, but my faces need MORE work. I feel like if I could have those two building blocks than I can at least start seeing an overall quality level. But right now when I put extra effort into something, the anatomy turns out passable and the head just looks tacced on.

Does that make sense? I want to get to a point where the head flows with the rest of the body.

What are some good anatomy exercises?

>>9346781
Sure, you can focus elsewhere. But I think you'll get there faster if you learn more about gesture and proportion first, unless you only want to draw portraits.

Proko's very first videos focus on drawing the head, so take a look at those. And if you want the head to flow with the rest of the body, you need gesture much more than you need head construction. Connecting the head to the body has very little to do with the head itself. It's more about the spine.

>>9346820
Muscle tracing.

>>9347446
Alright. I learned gestures from dodson but obviously I went wrong somewhere with that. I'll give this a try if you really think it'll help.

>>9308117
I've personally found that starting out with gesture drawing is a good way to start, just to get the flow and rhythm of drawing down to a better place for myself, and to worry a lot less about things being perfect. Proko's video on gesture is great, and using Youtube's Croquis Cafe series is a perfect life-drawing resource without having to leave your chair. Speed and confidence will come with practice, don't be discouraged!

>>9330519
Have you considered an anti-depressant? Alternatively, daily exercise, and maybe a little sun every now and then?

You sound like your brain needs a little maintenance.

>>9331566
Every critique I've had in university situations have usually been pretty positive and encouraging, -except- in the one field where I push myself the hardest.

Those critiques are the ones that hit home hardest, even when they aren't super negative.
Sometimes you just want to hear a few words of encouragement that the path you're going down is the right one to justify all the time and energy put in.

I feel you, brother.

>>9348045
If only gesture wasn't so damn hard.
All that "Ohhh you have to FEEL it" shit.
I tried gesture lots and lots of times by now but I never can get it it seems.
Everything else I can understand but gesture? Nope.

>>9348156
Ive always had negative reactions to anti depressants (violent shivering, anxiety fits, headaches and dizziness). Im on my feet 8 hours a day at my job and I do a lot of lifting too. The sunlight thing is valid because I dont really have the time to go outside, and I just dont have a reason to other than to get sunlight.

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>>9348170
We're all gonna make it brah.
Just practice every day.
Even when you feel like quitting, you must continue, no matter how many mean things people say to you. The best way to prove them wrong, is to keep going.

>>9348300
What helped me was using a dark, unforgiving physical medium and big-ass sheets of newsprint. Fast, dark, no erasing, and there's no remorse for the drawing surface. Compressed charcoal, 18x24 pad. When you get your entire arm involved, drawing from the shoulder first, elbow second, and hand last (optimally, there should be little to no wrist movement), movements become much more organic.

Let me be clear, when I first started doing gesture I fucking hated it, and was frustrated constantly. But getting through three hours of it in one go made me feel like a goddamn animal, and after a certain point your brain shuts off and you just hammer it.

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>>9348457
Why would you post a picture of a known liar with these words, anon?

>>9348518
He's not a liar he just has too much imagination for this world

>>9348543

>you can draw anything!

buy pencils

>you can't draw anything

>>9348622
Should have bought paper instead

>>9348622
Which end of the pencil did you try using?

>>9349387
What's the best pencil to make into a dual edge? i need to know for productivity reasons.

When you study stuff, is it better to write notes next to your things?

>>9352655
If it helps you learn/retain things, yes.

Bump time

Practice

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r8

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Gonna do the 250 box challenge.

should i transcribe a motivational copypasta from a book for you people?

>>9359241
Anatomy/shading looks good, composition could use some work though. It would look better if more of the empty space on the left was filled up by her face.

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Do you guys do 3d art as well? Or am I the only one?

Pic related is my magnum opus.

>>9362472
No reason not to

>>9362551
"Man is capable of performing miracles. A man can swim the English Channel three times, drink a hundred mugs of beer, walk barefoot on burning coals; he can learn thirty languages, become an Olympic champion at boxing, invent the television or the bicycle, become a general in the GRU or make himself a millionaire. It's all in our own hands. If you want it you can get it. Most important is to want something: the rest depends only on training.
But if you simply train your memory, your muscles or your mind regularly, then nothing will come of your efforts. Regular training is important, but training alone decides nothing. There was the case of the odd character who trained regularly. Every single day he lifted a smoothing iron and continued this for ten years. But his muscles got no bigger.
Success comes only when the training, of whatever kind (memory, muscles, mind, willpower, stamina), takes a man to the limit of his capacity. When the end of the training becomes torture. When a man cries out from pain and exhaustion. Training is effective only when it takes a man to the very limit of his capacity and he knows exactly where the limit is: I can do two metres in the high jump; I can do 153 press-ups; I can memorise at one go two pages of a foreign text. And each new training session is effective only when it becomes a battle to exceed your own achievement on the previous day. I'll do 154 press-ups or die in the attempt."

From: Viktor Suvorov, Aquarium

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>>9362515
>Pic related is my magnum opus
more like Magnum Opussy

>>9348503
..and what did you achieved?

i don't doodle anymore. i don't know why but its either finish the drawing or nothing.
i don't know when this started for me but i feel it's really hindered my progress.
and even the finished pieces i tend to rush thru as if i was doodling.
i cant slow down or faff about and not having that freedom confines me to my comfort zones, i think.

i know the solution is to try to slow down and try to doodle, but is there a way to retrain myself? how do i tell myself "i don't have to finish it and i don't have to rush it"?

>>9362515
I'm trying to learn how to draw, but mainly I do sculpture and ceramics.

The 2D surface is a real son of a bitch to me.
I much prefer getting my hands on something and being able to feel it.

>>9362793

Good gesture drawing skills.

What you apply those to is up to you.

>>9362820
Put a timer on your drawings, however long you think you should spend.

>>9363087
yeah, that might work. hopefully having a time limit set won't stress me out tho.

>>9363214
It helped me for gestures. But im the crazy guy who was talking about head construction and stuff, I though my gestures were going well but people were saying I need to study basic anatomy in stead.

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>>9299952
the best mindset. Just add the idea that NO page demands perfection, 'perfection' just happens. especially if really into the drawing. Getting better is all our goal, but no one ever makes perfection, there will always be minor mistakes, but getting better means you do less or make them less noticeable.

I feel stuck sort of. Like I can do boxes pretty well, working on getting a straight circle even with using my shoulder. They tend to turn out lopsided like i cant keep the movements straight.

Lines are alright. But im not really sure where to go after that. Hell at this point im not even sure if i'll get a perfect circle down.

>>9365630
Perfect circles are useless but you can always just spin the page instead of moving your hand

>>9365655
really? Thought you had to really perfect a circle before moving on.

>>9365677
You will rarely need to make a perfect circle man it will always be misshapen in some manner so obsessing over it is a waste of time

>>9365677

it's a fun thing to practice like straight lines as long as possible but otherwise heads and tits are oval anyway so w/e

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I fucking failed again.

>studies aren't anything amazing, but they certainly aren't shit
>anything I draw from my imagination is pure shit
I don't get it. It's like I forget everything I learned from doing a study the moment I try to make my own stuff.

>>9365677
Before moving on to what?
If you need a perfect line, just take a ruler, if you need a perfect circle just use a compass
Good motor skills are a good compliment to everything else but if you're just starting out, perfecting your lines is a backwards approach

>>9368780
do more studies
or less
it doesn't matter
just draw even if you think it's complete shit
it's all grind anyway
eventually you'll be good
or hey, maybe you'll die before that happens

Practice makes perfect

>>9365677
Your end goal is being able to draw what you want to draw. Getting good at drawing straight lines and clean ellipses will simply cut down on the time required to develop that line or ellipse so you can move further with your painting. I think it's mostly so you can sketch or make concepts faster, because when it comes to working on your painting you should use all tools available to create what you want to create, and that includes using rulers and all sorts of 'cheats.' And using rulers can be slower than just nailing the line in one go, once you're good at it.

>>9368780
Well, for example, it takes a few minutes to explain the concept of 2 point perspective, but it takes insane amount of practice to be familiar with it to the point of automatism.
And to draw some complex pose imagination you need understanding of how relevant joints and muscles work, which is probably you can't learn even in a hundred practice sessions.
Don't be discouraged but learn your current limits and when to get help from a reference!

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im working on anatomy
kinda
i really just want to draw pokemon porn but at the same time i really need to get better at art in general

so im pretty sure that despite this being "anatomy practice" the stylization is getting in the way of actually producing good art

id like some advice on this dilemma

>>9375882
I dunno about pokemon, but it probably doesn't work well to translate human anatomy to most pokemon. Hell, maybe even animal anatomy doesn't translate well to most pokemon. But from what I've seen they're really simple shapes, so if you wanna learn to draw pokemon better just study them. Should be easy to break most of them down into simple shapes.

>>9371571

*perfect practice makes perfect

>>9375882
Unless you're drawing full-blown anthros you don't need to know anatomy for Pokemon other than the actual Pokemon models themselves. If you're at a more beginner level I wouldn't recommend trying to draw Pokemon anthros either since they'll look like devianart tier OC abominations more than actual anthrofied Pokemon. Just keep practicing regular human anatomy, or the actual Pokemon themselves before attempting to combine them.
Take what I say with a grain of salt though since I'm not an experienced artist and have only just begun my own foray into Pokemon smut.

>>9308676
The most common mistake with artists who self study, is them following what others give them. Try different guides and books. Try to find a teaching style that fits you and go with it. I've seen people look at some of the standard beginner books that /ic/ puts out and go completely blank. After you do that, try to study the books you've previously read and I'm sure it will translate much better.

Save

>>9365677
i don't think most people can draw a perfect circle. just one that looks good enough. You could always use a tool or something for help with that. Same with a ruler and straight lines

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just drew these mannequin i wanna know your thought on it also i was going to do gesture drawing for them but they look like shit

>>9383212

Your proportions are all over the place.
Start with some life drawing, and just try and find the internal structure of the body first; do -not- concern yourself with the contours of the outside. This will help you understand roughly how long each part of each limb should be, and with time and practice, you'll be more confident to start adding in the shapes of the body that produce contour and volume.

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>>9383420

>>9383420
Thanks for the advice I was mostly trying to make them cartoony since I like that style

>>9384198
You still want to shoot for constructing your characters out of shapes, then, rather than contour lines. Big, simple shapes stacked in each other will get you cartoony volume, rather than things that look like they're deflating from uneven lines.

>>9338098
>tfw post progress over the years in a progress thread
>no one comments on it

>>9385984
Post it here

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>>9386185
ok. if you guys have any suggestions on what I should work on I'd love to hear them.

>>9386391
Looks amazing to me mate, might as well be drawn by a concept artist. Whats your secret?

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>>9386624
I don't really know, just draw a lot and study a lot and try to keep learning new things, sometimes it's worth it to watch the same lecture over and over, especially in the beginning. I must have watched vilppus lecture on gesture at least 7 times by now. I still feel like I'm garbage so it's hard to be objective. motivation is at like 0 for me lately, just been drawing comics lately.

what do you guys do to try and get back into the groove of drawing?

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I'll post some great tutorials I've collected over the years

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Not just tutorials but also reference

Any tutorials on hair and noses

>>9386391
Nice, year 3 looks pretty sweet

I'm already year in but I haven't made nearly as much progress as many other people usually do. Mostly because I'm lazy put very little time in it. No idea how to feel about that.

>>9392412
And I thought using a ruler is cheating...

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I'm in this really peculiar place in my work where its not quite impressive enough to gain a fan following or show off to the big shots, but when I post it around other amateurs it feels like showboating.
It's super isolating, and hard to find other artists who are at my skill level without feeling left behind or way ahead. I'm really eager to meet more creative people, because most of my friends are either casual hobbyists who don't care about improving their work, or people who just don't care about that sort of thing.
Every random "art chat" I've joined was full of beginners, and as much as I love helping others improve, the responses to my work are always "so good!" "its great!", never any actual criticism.
Does anyone have a group chat of friends who actually competent and care about their craft, and aren't just dicking around because they think cartoons are easier than a real job? If so, I'm desperate for that kind of environment and would love to be a part of it.

>>9393020
how is using a tool cheating?

>>9393020

that's something artists tell you to keep you from making it

>>9393020
big news but there's no such thing as cheating in art as there were no rules to begin with

>>9393161
Have you tried explicitly asking for criticism? There's literally a billion reasons for people, no matter how competent, not to give criticism.

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>>9393020
>cheating
>art

>>9393020

good artists copy tutorials

great artists steal straight off deviantart

>>9299826
Divide and conquer: line it into several parts. Then you split it in two, until one day you're ready for a whole page.

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>>9309406
>>9309423
>>9309433
>>9309455
I'd recommend finding picrealated for anyone who wants more traditional approach.

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>>9389062

>>9395095
Just realized that I don't have part 1. Sorry.

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I watched the first two proko videos for gestures. Here's my 30 second ones (all from reference).

Am I on the right track or do I need to watch the videos again right away? haha.

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>>9396436
Forgot to mention that I have an annoying habit of doubling every line (I always try to go back over my curves a second time. Dodson taught me that it was called "reiterating" but all it does is overcomplicate my drawings and make for confusing construction.). I was practicing curves and lines on their own for a while and slowly got myself out of it, but the habit instantly returns when i'm trying to focus on things that are more complex.

>>9396436
You're on the right track, you just need to do more. Keep at it! I wanna see one hundred gestures by the end of today!

>>9394966
Great recommendation, anon. Burne Hogarth was a 10/10 artist who knew all this shit like the back of his hand.

>>9396436
>>9396505
It's a decent start. Some of your gestures don't connect to the rest of the body, and that doesn't sell the pose. I recommend drawing a line from shoulder to shoulder and from hip to hip. Those two lines really help to settle your pose, and it will connect your floating limbs. Once you're comfortable with these 30s gestures, go for 2 minutes.

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>>9396562
Won't be too hard but I want to avoid it feeling like a slog. One philosophy I genuinely believe in is that art always comes out better when the artist is feeling good. I won't get into personal details but that's not an easy feeling for me to come by.

Since this is my day off I'll try and space it out in stead of just grinding gestures for forty minutes straight. Maybe that will work better for me.

>>9396639
I'll have to keep practicing to be able to connect them on time before switching to another pose. 30 seconds is a really easy way to build another terrible drawing habit of rushing drawings (which proko specifically mentioned). In stead of rushing I just wind up not finishing poses on time.

Just like all of my art, all unfinished.

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I'm working on some kind of a kobold/lizard
(idk what it is going to be yet)

I colored in the ass part out of boredom.
(the face and colors will most likely change)

>>9396899
her tail seems pretty small. Otherwise the tones look really good. And your line art is super clean.

>>9396899
How do you even get the lines that clean? Do you have like some super steady hand?

>>9393020
>cheating
you need maximum cheating senpai

>>9396914
Yeah, I'm afraid the tail will become too much of a focus point if it becomes bigger, eh I'll see what I'll do with it.

>>9397071
I don't really know how I do it.
I tell myself to do my lines in one stroke and never to make a mess out of it. (prevent 'chicken scratches' at al cost)
If it looks bad to me, I do it over again.

After drawing like this for a while I suppose drawing 'clean lines' just became an automatic process to me.

>>9394966
that swastika

Anybody got a good method/book for studying/practicing proportions? I know I draw heads too big, and I'm pretty sure it's a major part of my lack of understanding of the widths and lengths of the rest of the body.

Is there a discord?

>>9402698
Not yet, would be nice though.

>>9361623

hows it goin

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>>9400968
for your problem with head sizes is it the width or the height of the head that's giving you problems?

>>9404753
this should come in handy

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>>9397749

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>>9408023
fucking kek

>>9400968
Literally Loomis.
Get Fun With A Pencil, and then draw a fuckload of the figures.

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>>9403944
Okayish. Most of all I think this exercise has shown me that my line quality is not up to par. Gonna do the last 50 tomorrow. Also plan on doing the 250 cylinder challenge afterwards.

>>9408023
Use this for the next thread OP.

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>>9394966
>>9408023

>>9408023
Oh god, my sides

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working on this
coloring/rendering kills me

>>9386391
blog?

200

>>9409452
I'm not him but I think it's good advice in general to be careful about how you learn. Loomis taught me a lot of bad habits and my portrait drawing seriously suffered from it.

I'm sure it works for some people but at some point you need to take a step back and see if you're really improving.

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>>9396436
Here's todays gestures. All I have time for today though.

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Poses are a bit rigid, but it'll have to do.

>>9408023
>the final solution

>>9414573
>Loomis taught me a lot of bad habits and my portrait drawing seriously suffered from it.
Can you elaborate a bit?

>>9409452
not the anon you were talking to but, i'm hesitant to touch loomis. i've known many artists who learned to hate art through him or learned bad habits that hindered their progress like >>9414573

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Does this remotely look like gesture drawing? Too rigid and contour-focused? Proportions too messed up?

>>9414573
Seconding the request for elaboration: >>9414967
since I see Loomis recommended so much but rarely hear or see the results.

>>9416870
Recommending loomis is a meme lol

>>9416951
Thinking loomis is a meme is a meme

>>9409452
Loomis is fucking terrible compared to Hamm, Bridgman, and Hogarth. Also, those guys don't mince words with esoteric bullshit.

>>9414741
>censored

anon why

we're on /trash/

>>9417392
Gotta donate to his paymetons for the uncensored version obviously

>>9417392
its the new kike thing to do on patreon

>>9414741
>personnel

>>9417550
pressed

>>9414741
>meme references
Please don't do that shit. It makes you look stupid.

>>9416982
>falling for the memes

"loomis" basicly means learn to construct / think in 3d

experienced artist don't construct a loomis head they can go about it entirely different ways

>>9412535
I used to post here http://forums.permanoobs.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1674&hilit=milo

but more recently I've been posting here

http://forum.sycra.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78328

but I haven't posted in a while cause I've been in a slump

>>9417392
>>9417436
>>9417550
It was meant to post on blue boards and I cbf re-exporting it.

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>>9414967
>>9415184
>>9416870
To keep it really short, practicing his methods for figure drawing and heads resulted in pretty hideous looking characters. I think the point was to be able to work out 3D shapes behind the skin of the face and body. But ultimately everything wound up far too pronounced and ugly looking. I never really got a grasp of subtlety nor did I learn anything about which lines to erase and which lines to keep. To be fair I stopped bothering with loomis after I noticed my drawings suffering so much.

Pic is related, but there's better examples of what I'm talking about. I'll look around in my files, hopefully I haven't deleted them.

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>>9424556
LIKE THESE.

AGHH THEY HURT TO LOOK AT.

>>9424580
These look like heads from "fun with a pencil", I hope you didn't think that this book is about anything but construction? It doesn't teach you how to draw heads

>>9424556
>>9424580
They look bad because you didn't draw them symmetrically and you got the facial proportions wrong. This has nothing to do with Loomis being bad.

People need to stop blaming Loomis, and start blaming themselves for not practicing the fundamentals enough.

The one nice thing about loomis is his head construction method though. Is there even anyone who doesn't use that nowadays?

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Daily reminder that even your favorite anime titty sprite artists have done Loomis. You have no excuse.

http://www.mmcafe.com/news/posts/10248.html

>Capcom explains that this guideline manual was probably written based on references from American illustrator William Andrew Loomis, with material added and taken out by Capcom artists to optimize it towards sprite drawing/pixel art.

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Does anyone understand what this pose is trying to convey?

>>9428508
Kneeling down on one leg, supporting the upper body with arm while holding something in the other?

>>9428508
looks like a kneeling stance while holding a weapon

>>9428508

when you're trying to shit on a toilet squat style but your ankle slips and you just barely catch yourself on the seat before dunking your donut

>>9428671
>>9428689
Yeah, that's what I was going for. I'm glad I got the intent down, but I'm at a bit of a loss how to start with the construction. Any tips before I start?
>>9429145
Kek

Recommending Loomis is an /ic/ meme (while Loomis himself and his books are probably not) because his books cover a lot of topics and it's easier than pointing out a specific problem with a specific image

>>9426321
>>9427082
I'm sorry. If Loomis helped you then thats fine, I'm not saying he's a bad author, I'm not even blaming him.

Even from the start I was just saying that Loomis isn't for everyone. Some learning methods can actual hinder peoples' progress, or at least that's what I saw in my own drawings.

I think I have some visual problem or mental deficiency with drawing things symmetrical. I've tried for years to understand it but I haven't gotten anywhere when it comes to drawing faces at a three-quarter turn or anything that isn't directly facing the viewer.

Anyway yes, it is entirely my fault. I try to avoid being too hard on myself because it just throws me into bouts of depression and I wind up not drawing at all. But honesty is more important than everything else anyway.

>>9430720
But anyway I shouldn't even have reacted in caps or any of that bullshit. People just wanted me to elaborate on why I thought Loomis was making me worse, and the reaction I get is people saying that it's completely my fault. So I guess I'm just not good at learning Loomis the right way, which is more or less the point I was trying to make.

>>9430749
Oh definitely. I feel the same way about Proko. I started out with his stuff, which was a great jumpstart, but over time I got frustrated with his rigid and 'safe' style.

Read everyone and see what sticks.

>>9412535
I'd rather see the guy below get tentacled, but its still nice.

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>>9409768
All 250 boxes. https://imgur.com/a/DJR7K

>>9432042
I did both boxes and cylinders a couple years ago, it didn't help me at all, but mostly because I thought like >>9365677
Dunno if I want to do that again

>>9424556
Gotcha. Thanks!

Practice

>>9417885
not really. In the context of it all it just comes across as something the wolf is saying and it isn't like they're going out of their way to meme

>>9436864
It's pretty memey desu

>on paper I can draw ok
>on a tablet or on a computer, it looks like it came off of the bad part of DA
I'm weeping

>>9437273
just keep practicing. the act of looking down at your hands with pen and paper and then looking up and away at a computer screen is discombobulating at first. you will get better.
if the texture is off for you, secure a thin sheet of paper over the drawing area of the tablet and that may help you transition easier.

>>9432042
What program is that?

What if I want to draw like Weaver, forever

>>9439958
well, you can't set the bar any lower so getting to that point will be no work at all.

>>9439958

they're literally mspaint speed drawings done with a mouse, anon

like, just try

>>9439958
then improve on your gestures and clarity of shapes. Even if it looks simple, you can apply other things to it like composition and expression.

does anyone want to make a discord?

does anyone want to make a human centipede?

>>9441772
If someone wanted a discord they would have made one by now

>>9439575
It's just photoshop.

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Well I got the impression from proko that I should allow myself more time when I'm ready to get more detailed with gesture drawings.

But in my current state 30 seconds isn't enough time for me to really find out all the action lines.

Also I'm almost always horrendously off model. The time it takes me to shift my view from the reference to my drawing surface already permits me to forget how long certain curves are and how big certain parts are in relation to the head.

I keep practicing but I just keep getting worse.

>>9443668
Then go for 1 or 2 minutes. The point of the time limit is to stop you from going into details. I did a few with no time limit at all. As long as you are diligent in only looking for the gesture, you don't need a time limit.

>>9443668
>shift my view from the reference to my drawing surface
So learn to draw while looking at the reference.

>>9443864
I wouldn't recommend that, at least from my personal experience. One of the things that helped me out with my gesture drawings was to divorce my reference from my drawing. If I focus too much on my reference, I ignore my drawing and it ends up looking disjointed as I'm trying to copy the reference. Instead I think of my drawing as a doppelganger of my reference, a completely different independent individual but who is trying to mimic the reference.

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>>9443947
I don't even know anymore. I'm embracing everything negative that people have to say about my efforts.

Ignoring anything positive.

That's my real problem. I have not the money, means, time or even the will to overcome that.

I keep practicing but at this rate it just feels like I'm torturing and abusing myself over it. Dramaqueen amiright?

>>9444036
Well, only embrace good feedback, not necessarily negative or positive. That's just masochism.
You need willpower to overcome those feelings to progress fast. But it does get easier because you get used to it.

>>9444110
This discussion isn't what the thread is for. But you're right. It's masochism. Just masochism. That's the only thing that's driving my life right now.

I know how edgey and fucking stupid that sounds.

But probably best for me to stop there, not what the thread is for.

>>9441772
Just use the MS Paint thread one

>>9445981
That ones not really for improving though
Or even art centric, its like some roleplay thing.
We really should get one started

>>9445999
I'm not a huge fan of this idea

Since discord has no concept of persistence of "place", we'll just keep making more discords. There's already two or maybe more art related discords from /trash/. Maybe try those first.

>>9315851
Why, your back is fine with your giant man boobs?

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>>9441772
making a discord on trash is a one way ticket to regret and disappointment

>>9446693
Not him, but back problems are almost exclusively a result of poor lifestyle choices.
Breast reduction surgery is no different from liposuction. You're basically admitting you're incapable of basic exercise or not eating cake. It's a huge red flag.

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really digging how the colours in this are turning out, what do you guys think?

>>9448005
Quite flamboyant.

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>>9430885

>>9448005
Tentacles sucking dick are top tier, good taste.

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>>9299721
I've been trying to get better at anthro since all ive ever done is pony

>>9448005
Nice taste, anon. Is the base of the plant foing to be the same color as the tentacles?