TwoKinds General Dragonfu edition Newest Page: http://twok

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First for crackshipping

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>>11087297
the best shipping

>>11087525
Looks like he has tits

>>11087610
now that you've mentioned it, has there ever been a R63 pic of alaric?

>>11087663
Well... Kinda if you count the spoofcomic of Alaric possesing female Lynn.
But its stretching it far then.

>>11087208
Why are her ears square

>>11087663
Tom drew a pic of him as a cboy a long time ago

Ah we sure were spoilled last thread
A big thanks to the generous drawfags and kind anons that participated !

>>11088619
Fuck you

>>11087725
Why aren't yours

>>11087297
I bet mike is into pegging

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>>11086493
>>dicks are gross
>so vanilla baka

I don't know about that senpai

>Natani overall believes she's a man in a woman's body
So when your options are either
>give Natani a dick which lets her almost completely validate herself as a man with chest bindings and all, turning her relationship with Keith into something very close to m/m with Keith being the bottom
or
>play a variant of the "making strong woman submit" trope where Natani desperately hangs on to her masculinity and the idea she's a man at all while Keith chips away at it with every thrust of his enormous ambassador cock

Neither seem very vanilla to me and Keith isn't the same little emo bitch he was after Trace beat him to Flora, he deserves better

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>>11090106
I keep forgetting about these filters, I love em

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I can't help be steal Starfighter's drawings to put colors here and there.
It's the third one now

>>11090475
You do good colors.

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>Decide to give the comic a try after hearing people talk about the cute furry characters
>Force myself through the VERY rough early chapters
>Eventually grow to like some of the characters, and even care for them
>Binge read the entire thing
>Get post-webcomic depression

Where do I go from here?

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What's Natani saying to Flora in the second panel here?

>>11091232
I dare you to Read prequel
http://www.prequeladventure.com/2011/03/prequel-begin/

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>>11092124
Way ahead of you bro. I got over it about a year ago though.
It still hurts a bit every time Kaz goes "IT'S TOTALLY ALMOST FINISHED YOU GUYS" though.

>>11092111
>whispering

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>>11092177
Good eye. I can kinda make it out now that you say it.

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today's sketch

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>>11090106
>>11090136
I think Tom has been hinting at what direction Natani's character is heading in for a while now. The one (potential) speed bump I could see going forward would be if Natani somehow gets genderbent temporarily and then finds herself wanting to change back, which is the real moment of realization for her. That's somewhat of a cliche though, and I think Natani is already getting close to the point where she wouldn't change herself if the option was there.

>>11092219
Almost looks like a sindoll character

>>11092388
fuck why is the king so perfect

>>11092392
nah, doesn't have enough size on the ass and tits and missing the coerced sex fetish

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>>11092418

>>11092447
>people on e6 complaining that those tits are too big
fuckin philistines I swear

>>11092578
wait, for real ?

>>11092639
>Your art of Twokinds is great with it's own style, but the overly large breasts are bugging me out...

>>11092388
Eh, I hope we get to see more of gender-confused Natani.
Reverse traps are god-tier.

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>>11092722

>>11092388
I'm all for Genderfluid Natani.

>>11093290
Where is this from?
Is there some archive for side comics and additional art somewhere?

>>11093579
a little side comic tom put on his DA years ago

>>11092436
coerced sex is probably the only sex kat is getting

>>11092388
>>11092418
>>11092447
>>11092578
>>11092639
Am I looking in the wrong places? I swear I can't find that much art of the King

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>>11087297
>>11090475
>attempt something something
I hope starfighter won't get mad at me for shagging so much of his amazing sketchs

>>11090613
thanks !

>>11093722
there is a couple of pics but the king does is underrepresented

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>>11093903
Fuck quick fix with lights on the ponytail and the pillow that didn't clip right

>>11093903
>>11093965
cute af

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God I love this meme.
Thanks, plague.

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>>11093722
pretty much what's on e6 is all there is of her, plus a couple pics of her in the artbook

>>11093903
I'd struggle to call her underrepresented with all of the sketches/monthly art she gets.

Rose, Adira and Sera on the other hand...

>>11095633
I'm like
a week away from trying to commission something of sera at this point

>>11095633
since a couple of months, it's true she got a lot more attention than what she used to.

>>11095759
Do it

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>>11092388
>>11092722
>>11093471
Since she probably wants to not get thrown out of assassin brotherhood, she has to keep it up at least as an act. The less people know, the better. If both Keith and Nat get a good end, then obviously she can not give a shit about that anymore and just marry him instead of being a subpar assassin, but that's lightyears away

Also, while this comic has a lot of genderbending, I don't think it's gonna happen to Natani. There's already a Clovis arc clearly shaping up so the whole theme is going to be handled differently

>>11095633
Rose was getting some sketches too, Adira/Sera are minor character barely above Landen and Sealeen in terms of relevance

>>11096563
>Rose was getting some sketches too, Adira/Sera are minor character barely above Landen and Sealeen in terms of relevance
you say that like all of those characters you've listed aren't infinitely better than any of the main cast minus nat and *maybe* keith

>>11096681
Main cast has at least some backstory and character fleshed out, even if it's bunch of cliches mashed together

Landen appeared in what, 5 pages? 6?

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>>11092219
Add-on to aforementioned sketch

>>11097112
And landen is still more characterized than Karen or maren

>>11097113
Nibbly best girl
Kathrin worst girl

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>Tom is streaming a nora card
>it involves tiger trace and the background is uncharacteristically Asian
Hmm I wonder who could be behind this...

>>11101294
We already knew this

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>>11102413
You'd think Leo would change it up in response as some half-assed deflection tactic once in a while.

>>11102918
>tfw no threesome art with these two

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Best Girl Bump

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...and again.

>>11106083
She needs bigger tits desperately.

>>11102495
He's not self aware enough to have shame

Anyone know a Good Way to make edits look like they belong?

>>11106389
Find that Reddit post by tom that has his brush settings

>>11106786
THAT EXISTED THE WHOLE TIME!?

>>11092388
is this rape?

>>11107017
i sure hope so

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>>11107017
nope but this is

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>>11107667

>>11106891
Yeah but I can't find it in my bookmarks atm

>>11108295
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twokinds/comments/239g0c/what_does_tom_use_to_draw/

The newest page is awful with compression, even for being a .PNG and its filesize. Is there a better quality version floating around or maybe a textless version?

>>11107813
fourth tier best tier

>>11109168
http://twokindscomic.com/speechless/

if you're really anal about quality then you could check the stream recordings, find the one where Tom was adding text, play it in fullscreen then piece together an ultra high res version from zoomed in panels, then shrink it down to whatever you want

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what do you guys think so far?
should i start over,change a few things or what should i do next.

>>11110130
I feel there ought to be a little line showing the curve on the left. Otherwise it seems a bit flat.

>>11106174
No man, the itty bitty titty committee needs a champion.

>>11110350
''itty bitty titty comittee champion''

>>11110130
i also am thinking about making the hips wider(bigger?) but have no idea how

>>11110130
Looks Good, thx for doing this.

>>11111151
Transformation tool maybe, drag out the hiplines a bit with it.

>>11103923
Who would the third one be? Zen?

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>>11112456

>>11112456
Keith, or preferably some anthro whose face isn't shown

>>11112456
keith or maybe zen

>>11113073
Zen is clearly the patrician choice.
Maximum mindfuck.

>>11113247
>all three of them are feeling everything the other two are feeling
This shouldn't be so hot to me

>>11114093
>Being able to experience a vaginal orgasm AND a penile orgasm at the same time
Man, Zen and Natani should really just fuck already.

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>>11110130
Just needs a midline and a belly button and you're set

>>11114266
>Man, Zen and Natani should really just fuck already
That implies they haven't yet

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hmmmm....

done?

>>11116065
It's better looking

>>11116065
breddy nice

>>11116419
everythings better with a bump

>>11116065
>what Kat will never get to experience

>>11116775
Magic.

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>>11118969

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Off page 9

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Tiger tats

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>>11118969
You know, I just couldn't help but draw more angry fem-Clovis. Zen might be pushing his luck a bit, though.

Also I'll pretended this is after that backfired spell reversal attempt that made Clovis even bigger, because... reasons.

>>11093903
Just want to say that if you like doing them, feel free to keep doing more, I'm really bad about getting my own drawings coloured, even the ones I like.

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>>11124450
Oh fucking damn it, forgot to duplicate the layer to make this more legible on regular screens, again.

>>11124450
>>11124510
Big is good :3

Good night

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We're getting too close to the edge again

>>11125079
Nibbles is underrated.

>>11125847
I thought his name was geckoguy?

>>11126695
I'm talking about the character.
...That IS Nibbles, right, not a chubby, short-haired, stub-snouted Natani?

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>>11126741

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So fem Mike was a thing at some point, and it looks like there is almost no consistency in her bust size, so whatever. Have some fem Mike!

>>11126741
Maybe fem Zen?

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>>11127357
Noice.

Also, wouldn't fem Zen just be, you know, Natani?

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>>11127417

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>>11127579
Oh. I forgot he did that sketch.
Man, Tom sure does a LOT of art, doesn't he? Is Twokinds his full-time job now?

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>>11127357
There was a storyline where Mike got turned into a girl temporarily and ever since then the fandom has been overcome with vixen lust. Then it happened again. Now it's to the point where no-one really cares about male Mike outside the context of "when is he going to get turned into a girl again?"

>>11127662
>This_is_fine.png

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>>11127650
>Man, Tom sure does a LOT of art, doesn't he?
Every Sunday he streams requests from Patreon backers on Picarto, and the viewers vote on it. The fun usually starts around 3-4PM EST.

>Is Twokinds his full-time job now?

I think so, thanks to Patreon. I think he's getting a master's degree in something or other but with the money he's earning from it I doubt he's going to stop any time soon.

>>11127579
I thought it was Natani talking to Raine but I'm not sure anymore

>>11127662
Don't be mean to Mike, he's a good guy most of the time

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>>11127731
>he's a good guy most of the time

Yeah because he's a girl most of the time.

>>11127701
Who's the doggo in that pic? Is it Evals? Zen? Clovis? Buzzcut Natani?

>>11127771
[spoiler]feral[/spoiler]

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>>11127771
Sythe

>>11127903
Oh. Right. I kinda forgot he existed desu.

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>>11127957
He changed a lot.

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>>11128066
It's always a treat to see Twokinds comparisons like these. I don't think I've ever seen a webcomic artist improve this much from start to the current time.

Also, did we ever get this qt's name?

>>11128102
El Goonish Shive and Zebra Girl got better art over a long timespan.

>>11092578
bitch those are at least anatomically possible

e621 is fully of boobs that are bigger than the entire female body, how the fuck is this unreal

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poor kat

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https://picarto.tv/Twokinds toms going live soon™

>>11129389
>Unless you

UNLESS SHE WHAT?!

>>11129917
unless she mates with fem keidran Eric.

>>11129917
Unless she learns how to stimulate his prostate

>>11129917
>Unless she can convince Natani to pose for me

>>11129389
Whew, that's harsh. Even Kat doesn't deserve this treatment.

>>11130529
yep, this Kat hating business is taking it a notch too far.

>>11130566
Stop it, Spots. We all know it's you.

>>11130079
She might not be fertile, but Eric could be!

>>11130566
Nah this isn't nearly far enough

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frist image of the stream

>>11131005
>yet another stream to get 15 Kat pictures and nothing else
Oboi

>>11131005
>reverse-trap bodyswap kat
I didn't know I wanted this.

>>11131303
>reverse-trap
Not even, she just got flora's body

>>11124450
>>11127357

God fucking damn,

>>11123042
>>11124450
>>11124510
>>11125079
>>11127357
All of this is ace you guys

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2ed image of the stream

>>11131539
>that face
>posing for sythe
Finally an image where maren isn't absolute trash

>>11131539
she wants the Z, down to the knot, breeding and happy family. the whole package

>>11131690
Eh, I'm pretty sure that's Sythe on the right.

>>11131712
damnit, I always get those two confused. sorry

>>11131854
Like anon said earlier, it's easy to forget he exists.

>>11131854
>>11131886
That they're almost identical doesn't help

>>11132154
Das raycis

>>11131690
>>11131712
>>11131854
>>11131886
>>11132154
Actually, I'm not seeing a ponytail.
Raine about to get Z-bombed.
He's probably still handcuffed behind his head.

>>11132253
Tom always pairs up maren with sythe, she's getting sown

>>11132290
Nah, that smug, self-confident expression doesn't seem very Sythe-ish to me.
She's entering the Zen State

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>>11131539
Tom inspired me.

>Became a 10 dollar patron just today
>My suggestion gets picked instantly
I feel.. honored.

>>11134371
What was your suggestion?

>>11134525
>Natani lets King Adelaide try one of her magic bandages, forgetting that they all lead to the same pocket dimension.
It's being drawn right now. https://picarto.tv/Twokinds

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>>11133791
Fucking A+

>>11134544
gj anon lol, thats pretty good

>>11135174
Today was a good day.

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3ed image of the stream

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4ed image of the stream

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>>11135174

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Thank you, Starflight.

>>11133791
How do you find the time for such great drawings while watching Tom's stream?

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>>11134371
If that's true, than I tip my non-existant hat to you kind sir.

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>>11135174

>>11135290
Now I know Zen doesn't wear much in the first place these days, but is the implication they've been banging?
[lolspoiler]Probably not since Raine still has her top on, but Tom seems determined to keep it on her as long as possible[/lolnospoilers]

>>11135174
Fuckin nice

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/aco/ Drawthread delivery!

>>11138678
Hot damn that is some good shit

>>11138678
>that anon finally got his request delivered
Good for him

>>11138678
Her face is wiggin me out

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what is this called and how do i do it

>>11140305
A gradient?

>>11140338
Now i feel like an idiot

>>11138678
>seraphina smut
>not only sera smut but tailplay sera smut
Fuckin 10/10

>>11135956
God I hope so

>>11135314
What is keith trying to accomplish here?

>>11141518
>>11135314
"Drunken antics. Keith goes to Madame Reni's bedroom to fight with dragon for Natani's honor." was the request.

>>11141518
I bet he is trying tog fuck it

>>11142011
I do NOT bet he is trying to fuck it

>>11135290
I think Tom picked this one just because he was sick of seeing it every week.

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well the mugs not wrong as far as i can recall. have we seen any other mothers in twokinds to be able to rate cat butt lower?

>>11142341
>#3 Mom mug is placed on top of Keith's mom's grave
>Flora is now Mom #4

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>>11142158
I wouldn't doubt it.
On the one hand, no one wanted to feed one guy's crackship, but on the other hand he was so autistic he wasn't ever going to change it. Even the guy that kept doing the vacuum one got the hint after awhile

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>>11129389
I want to hug Kat and tell her she is loved.

>>11142972
She'd call you a creep and push you away

>>11142972
Where so you mofos get images from the book?

>>11143258
Someone got theirs early a last year and scanned it

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Alright, I have a question about Nat's eye color in this part.
Natani's eyes were originally both blue, right? And her one brown eye is a result of Zen's link.
Then why does Young Natani have brown eyes?

>>11143447
The scan of the book is up on the pastebin

>>11143631
No, her eyes were nerver blue.
Page 355
http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/355/

>>11143631
Het eyes are Brown and has One Grey One because of the link

>>11143675
Link?

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>>11143678
>>11143687
Wait, so then where did the grey eye come from?
Also why does Dream-Natani have grey eyes?

>>11143694
Look at OP > TwoKinds Content Pastebin >Artbook Mega

>>11143712
The gray eyes are the Natani's incomplete soul, because of:
http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/447/
http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/448/

>>11142011
More like Keith tries to mate with her.

>>11143727
So, Dream-Natani is like she would looks like without the link, a incomplete soul.

>>11143744
Yes

>>11143857
I thought it was just how she saw herself mentally , which would explain why she doesn't have boobs in some of the earlier dream sequences. I also just noticed her boobs are missing in the third to third to last panel in >>11143631.
I what did xir mean by this?

>>1143882
This page can explain the sudden missing boobs
http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/928/
The third last panel reflects how she feel about herself.

>>11143943
Huh, so her form changes on the fly like that when she's in the dreamscape.
Does that mean she suddenly sprouts a dick too, since she suddenly feels strong and confident ie. "Manly"?

>>11143958
idk if this reach this point, but basically, yes.

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>>11142972
>ywn snuggle with Kat
It hurts to live.

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>>11144000
I bet it would, since genitals are pretty much the most important divide between male and female.

Also, fucking NICE numbers, checked.

>>11144000
Those numbers tho

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>>11135174
I just had a thought.
Natani came up with the interdimensional wonderbra AFTER they left the basitin isles, right?
What would've happened if she was wearing them when they destroyed the tower, and the magic in them got destroyed while her boobs were still in the pocket dimension? Would her boulders remain in the pocket space, or would they be "removed" in a very painful fashion?

>>11143882
She had boobs because she saw femininity as a weakness and she felt physically weak so presumably by then she was k and waking up

I never noticed they were gone in that one panel, fasntnig

>>11142407
Keith's mom, Raines mom, nat and zens mom

>>11142341
I don't get this sketch, were they fighting over who was the best mom?
Also where did the kings tits go

>>11133791
>now those dirty keidran are stealing our women

>>11145661
Yeah, I think the request was something like "King Adelaide and Adira fight over the #1 mom mug while Flora gets the #3 mom mug"
Also I think Addy ties her tits up a bit like Natani when she expects to be in a fight, so they don't get in the way.

>>11145686
Adira's a brave woman to fight Adelaide considering her head could just get crushed between her thighs at any point

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>>11143717
fuck yea

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>>11144871
Tom described it as working like a minor bag of holding so I looked it up and got this
https://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-513426.html
Bandages would suddenly stretch as Nat's boobs are ejected from the pocket space. No gory stuff. As long as that's what the DM decides.

But I'm not sure if the bandages weren't magical before the basitin arc, it was originally a running joke that kinda made sense

>>11145679
Clearly the best solution is to lock sythe in a chastity belt

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>>11146294
So we'd just get a good ol' "Bwom" instead of the undesirable "snipp".
Got it.
I also find it kinda cool how you went to such lengths to determine what would theoretically happen to this fictional wolf man's boobs. Reminds me of how Kazerad went through ancient Elder Scrolls forum archives to search for the devs' posts on how Khajiit genitals work.

>>11146487
The devs explained how cat dick worked?

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>>11146579
I think it was only in some EXTREMELY obscure and tucked-away part of the forums for the original games (I think before Morrowind) that one of the devs hinted at something.
I think the explanation was that yes, The more feral types of Khajiit have barbed penises, but the more human-looking ones kinda just have little nubs.
While Kazerad is literally the slowest webcomic artist ever, he's at least accurate to the source material.

>>11146579
There's a book in daggerfall where some famous dunmer slut fucks a male khajiit in a bar and passes out from the barbpain

i wish tom showed what tools he used

>>11146667
>Cat-gorillas
That's an awful idea but we're going to have these chimeras in a few decades anyway, aren't we

>>11146836
Barenzia iirc

>>11147192
No.

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man, photoshop is hard...

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>>11147993
The fuck are you tryna do?

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>>11147993
wtf

>>11148045
>>11148081
slightly going more mad by the minute because i cant figure out how colors fucking work

>>11148117
"Slightly," he says.

>>11148045
>img
Fucking died.

>>11148117
honestly what are you tring to do. and from what image ?

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>>11148256
preg edit

>>11148045
>>11148081
>>11148117
>>11148156
>>11148256
you know when you try to draw a line and keep fucking it up so you just go balistic? yea that happend

>>11148282
>>11147993

That mus've been one hell of a pregnancy.

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>>11148282
I should've guessed.

>>11148437
that's what you get for playing too much around with magic to conceal stuffs.

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>>11147993
this looks like one of these deep mind AI images

>>11148613
yea but atleast a robot can figure out how colors work

>>11148469
The thumbnail looked like a gory bloodbath, so I got a bit worried.
Glad to see nothing happened to Nat's puppers-to-be.

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>>11148464
Arthur was always having trouble with big guys.

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>>11147993
>>11148662
this is how Chaos Spawn are created

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this is basically what im going for. (and possibly for kat)
take note that i fucking suck at colors

>>11148772
>OwO what's this?

>>11148787
Right now?
My personal hell.

>>11148772
>>11148787

>>11148792
Alright, time for some actual critique then.
The colors are honestly fine, but the bulge is too far down. I'm no expert on pregnancies, but I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to extend all the way to her crotch, especially when she's lying down.

>>11148830
this is the type of comments i am seeking

>>11148899
No problem, memes are just easier to reply with since they don't require you to actually think about what's wrong with the image.

Actually, now that I look at it, you may want to make the color of the bulge slightly darker, and smooth out the >>11140338 below it.

>>11148982
exactly what ive been trying to do for a while before i gave up for tonight

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>>11148899
>>11148993
>there was an attempt to help

>>11149141
NOW we're going places!
Though, uh.... What's that bulge between her legs there?

>>11149162
a place that was hidden by the leg and is for the moment an awkwardly folded piece of the tissue sheet.

when i'll change it, it won't be OWO material no more

>>11149141
This'll make it much easier

When it is deemed finishen ill credit 4chan as a big help

>>11149141
Also, how the fuck do i use the gradient

>>11148772
>>11149141
Who's the father?

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>>11149302
I prefer to to the dradient by hand

Eyedropper to pick colors, just the softball with a big size, and then restricted the areas with lasso.

and then smudge tool to soften some parts, like the big flat you tried to put.


howizit now ?

>>11149445
Now you hit another issue, there's no reason why the blanket would wrap this tightly around an object. It doesn't look natural.

Especially that in the original you can roughly tell when the blanket stops covering Natani's body which is why Kat can lean on the bed like this, in the edit it looks like there's nothing between the belly and the right leg so it's kinda like Natani is missing left leg, or the entire blanket in that area is elevated to her leg's height which makes no sense

Material pressure is a pain to deal with

>>11149706
yes, material pull and pressure is hard.
which is why i always cheat by doing it retardedly for the moment

>can't criticize what recieved no efforts

i think i've just found the right way to cheat out of it

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>>11149706
>>11149795
Alright, it barely change a thing, but it's a thing for now

>>11150091
Alright, that looks good. Though from the way Kat positions her hand it kinda looks like we're heading into OwO territory again.

>>11150224
to create a bulge like that'd be one hell of a suggar bear daddy one.

>>11128102
Go back to his super early da pages and you'll see her and two other basitin girls

>>11147078
>>11108317

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>>11150739
Based retard-rabbits

>>11150847
I miss the dog looking design for basitin over the cat based design. makes them more distinct in a webcomic enviroment littered with cat anthros and cat girls.

>>11150091
>Natani gives birth to a cub that looks near indentical to herself
>Because magic, the splintered bit of her soul that formed YoungNatani got reincarnated as it's own separate being

>>11153626
That would mean there's no youngtani inside regular Natani anymore and that's rather sad.

>>11154942
Best girls

>>11131539
we really need more of this maren

>>11150754
I mean exactly what tools he used when in streams

>>11155784
Noclue, he's probably mentioned it somewhere

>>11144075
Male natani is the only man i'd sub for

>>11156983
You aren't fooling anybody keith

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WIP of a piece I'm doing for Vexd as a trade. He wrote me a nice Adira fanfic and I'm drawing some preggers Reed and Wolf Terrorist for him.

>>11157804
I am slowly turning all posts into pregnancy, and i Love it

>>11157804
you need to show the dogo what he did wrong and rub his nose in it.

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>>11157804
Poor wuff
He did his best to try and please her, or at least stay on her good side, and wound up landing face first into trouble.

>>11157804
Who is vexd and where can i find him

>>11157804
what a wimp

>>11158234
How dare you insult terrorist doggo

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>>11158234
>>11158294
It's probably not even his kid.

>>11157804
I'm not even into pref but this is great

>>11159591
All heresy's work is great

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I don't know why I made this.

Fuck that boat, and fuck my horrible macro fetish

>>11159682
>>11147993
>>11148081

I hope One of these threads Will spiral into chaotic Photoshop madness like these

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>>11160027
Did someone say... Madness?

>>11160176
So she killed her own mom for this promotion?

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>>11160288
Hah! I'd like to see her try.

Adelaide ain't going down, outside of old age or illness. If anything she'd give her daughter the crown prematurely because it would be FUNNY to see the rigid stuffy nobles shit themselves over Maddie's insane leadership

>>11160415
>Hah! I'd like to see her try.
cringe
Adelaide fags are the worst

>>11161037
To be honest, I'm serious, I think it would be a funny sketch request; Adelaide publicly faking a defeat at the hands of her daughter to give Maddie the throne

>>11161037
>cringe
Kys katposter

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you guys think this is postable or need some more adjustments?

>>11161862
That's up to you, really.

300.

I've got a thread ready to go but i'll wait a bit for this one to sink.

sink already

I'm launching when this hits page 4.

>>11162297


NEW THREAD, ABANDON SHIP

>>11162322
ID RATHER DIE