/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

MAGES RULE, LEECHES DROOL.

>>55398387
Anything with crafts. It's a really under utilized Skill. Basic example wolfhunting. Suicide yes. but if you slap some silver plating on the front of your car and just run them over. It's actually quite effective.

>>55398463
Wtf has crafts got to do with driving silver cars into things?

>>55398485
I imagine it's the part where you slap silver plating on the front of your car.

>>55398387
>Question
Used to play a Changeling character that was a hoodrat/dope dealer
He was pretty dumb and stubborn and had a subterfuge specialty entitled "I ain't did it I ain't seen nothing", even though he had only 1 dot in the skill and 1 or 2 in manipulation
To the party's general amusement, he consistently aced any roll involving this specialty, even when interrogated by a Ventrue using Dominate (who probably flunked her roll, but still)

>>55398531
>who probably flunked her roll, but still
Happens more often than some would think. Shit, in Broken Diamond a Master of Death failed a roll for the same spell like two or three times in a row. Councilor, leader of a local Legacy and all.

>>55398087
>I wonder why this thread seems to think that Mages can just perfectly magic all their problems away.

As a player of Mage, Werewolf and Vampire alike, I can tell you that they pretty much *can* magic (almost) all of their problems away... at the higher levels, that is.

Thing is, any competent Storyteller won't let mages run around with like Forces 5 or some shit at the beginning of the game, or even mid-game, no matter how much the players whine.

The magewank is intended for the higher levels, where their antagonists aren't vampires or woofs, but other mages and eldritch forces who are always going to be smarter, older and (more often than not) better at everything, no matter how high they get their stats.

The ones going "lawl, mage wins" aren't wrong, but they ARE missing the point of the game's themes rather comically. Or perhaps it's intentional shitposting, that's also an option, and probably more likely.

>>55398387
>do you have any clever moments where you put a mundane skill or merit to good use?

During a Vampire game, my vamp managed to use his Driving (at one dot) to great success, weaving inbetween lanes, alleyways and evading the near-entirety of a ghouled police force in a city on a wild goose chase while the rest of the coterie fucked up the Elder responsible when said ghouls were busy chasing after my character.

Was awesome. My character was a Gangrel too, and managed to get away by turning into mist after getting his car to explode, leaving everyone to think he was dead, while he was wafting through the sewers as a cloud of fog.

>>55398676
Oh I know Mages can magic nearly all of their problems away, but they don't do it in a vacuum, or otherwise without consequences. You use magic irresponsibly too much, you fall in Wisdom. Which means things like you become less capable at containing Paradox. You do things like mind control Sleepers too often, somebody is eventually going to accuse you of violating the Precept of Hubris, which can turn into a whole thing. Things like these are things people would know if they played the game, or even read the whole book instead of the parts that tell you all the cool things Mages can do.

>>5539846
Fukkkin kekkked

Been reading Hunter: The Reckoning lately. What do you guys think about it? It feels a lot different from the rest of cWoD.

>>55398866
It dum

Monster hunters are regular people fighting monsters. If you give them powers they're not regular people.

People with powers are fine, they can even fight monsters. But Reckoning powers aren't built on some deep cultural touchstone like werewolves or vampires. Demon: the Fallen came out around the same time, so you could play either a fallen angel or some hearing voices retardo.

Could magics of other splats be upgraded to work like creative thaumaturgy?

>>55398987
Go read the Blood Sorcery Threnody book.

>>55398987
>we're all mages now
I mean, what's the point? When you get to being able to replicate anything another splat can do with a number and saying "I wished for it", why bother even doing stuff like shapeshifting or pledgecrafting?

>>55398887
Isn't the whole point that without the activation of your powers, you very much an ordinary person? That you aren't picked because your capable or useful or insightful like other supernaturals, but rather your former life as a kindergarten teacher, car salesman, veterinarian or a telemarketer is thrown upside down?

Why play a Hunter instead of a Fallen? Because the game is not about a power trip.

>Hunter is not about superheroic exploits and guns, guns, guns. Sure, it can be, but that’s not the point. This game is about the horror of living a mundane, everyday, blue-collar life and suddenly being confronted with a terrifying, wretched reality: Monsters exist. We are their playthings. Whereas Sgt. Rex Hazzard might bristle with firearms in response to that truth, everyman John Smith must face the same creatures with only his wits, his will and whatever courage he can muster. Hazzard’s story is stupid and boring. That guy isn’t even like us; his life is two dimensional. Smith’s story, though, is plausible, traumatic and intriguing. We can identify with him and play him realistically in a world gone utterly wrong.

I think that's what makes it so different from the rest of cWoD.

>>55399014
If it's not about a power trip, then why do they get powers? Vigil is the game that's really not about a power trip.

>>55398995
But shouldn't Mages just be humans with powers? It would make sense that if most monsters are magical they'd be able to mess as much with it as Mages.
Ah, right, because Mages are supposed to be extra special reality warpers so they can fight literal gods, because anything else would be boring.

>>55399014
Not to mention that a lot of the edges are pretty subtle.

Well, not Vengeance. INSTANT INFINITE ARMOURY.
>>55399021
There are 'regular' hunters, and saying Vigil hunters don't get benefits is mind bogglingly stupid. Half of the use you get from Reckoning 'powers' is through virtue, anyway. That said, the ones who use edges aren't 'normal'. They're visited by the Messengers, actual angels, when they do something fucking impressive to a Supernatural creature.

>>55399021
Because the Imbuing is a decree, a Mission shoved down a normal person's throat whether he wants it or not. It's a Mission that makes most Hunters lose their mind, if they do not die before that. They're barely equipped to handle the job given, and the use of the powers - the only crutch they get - accelerate a Hunter's descent into madness.

It's a game about desperate obligation more than righteous vengeance.

>>55399045
>It's a game about desperate obligation more than righteous vengeance.
Princess the hopeful is literally a better HtR game than HtR

>>55399035
>Vigil hunters don't get benefits
They don't by default. Unlike Reckoning which hands out powers at CC

>>55399087
Are you saying that a Vigil character cannot take endowments at CC?

>>55399066
Princess has the exact opposite approach to H:tR. Reckoning is not about being the hero or doing the Right But Hard Thing just because you can.

>>55399098
It's not an assumption of the setting that every hunter has them. and reckoning PC are assigned powers at CC. I'm sorry the obvious is not something you can easily grasp

>>55399137
It's not an assumption that every hunter has them in Reckoning, either. There are plenty of entirely 'mundane' hunters.

I'm sorry the obvious is not something you can easily grasp

>>55399127
>desperate obligation
Reckoning has messengers
Princess has Queens
Both fight the good but ultimately hopeless fight
Both start going off the deep end the longer the game goes

>>55399098
Not unless Tier 3

>>55399160
uh yes it is. Character creation take 3 virtues and three powers. That's what a Reckoning Hunter has. Try reading the book faggot

>>55399173
Why don't you try reading them, since you're apparently entirely unfamiliar with the setting?

>>55399164
>Both start going off the deep end the longer the game goes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxQR1tXDYkM
>"I'm really stupid."

>>55399160
That's Hunters Hunted, unless you mean Bystanders.

The default starting character is Imbued in H:tR. It's about ordinary people who get the veil pulled from their eyes and they suddenly are aware of the supernaturals going bump in the night where none of their peers are. They're told that they need to save/heal/protect the world by a crazy metaphysical force, and if they don't, they lose their powers and remain stuck in a world full of monsters unable to do anything about it.

>>55399188
Default, sure, like the way vigil's default are going to be people in conspiracies, even if rules are presented for lesser. There are occasional hunter-net posters who are mundane, and organisations like the inquisition. They might trade on true faith, but they've got mundane thugs as well.

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>>55399180
Step4 Choose Edges
Kill yourself Faggot

>>55399199
Seconded. Additionally: If you think every person in your setting works according to the logic of some sourcebook, why would you even choose a Urban Mystery setting? What's the Mystery then?

>>55399213
And there's a part of the HTV creation process to determine endowments.

>>55399213
Basically you're assuming that all characters in the entire setting have to conform to character creation rules for player characters in the sourcebook. It's disingenuous. The same logic by which you can go to every priest in D&D and say "OKAY GO CAST HEALING ON ME!". Setting building for absolute beginners. It wouldn't be a problem if you weren't so smug about it.

>>55399261
For conspiracy members only.

>>55399284
And there are references to mundane hunters through the books of htR and other parts of the owod setting. The only difference is that HtV hands them to you up front, but conspiracies are still the 'default' for players, even if AA is out and out the best hunter org.

H:tR is about the Imbued. They have powers, they hear distorted alien messages, they feel like they need to try to understand, destroy or reform monsters. They are normal people who have no protection against the monsters they face, unless they take the gamble of using their powers. Succeed several times a row, and you become a stronger Hunter and start losing your grip on your sanity and your humanity. Fail without dying and risk losing the little power that has been protecting you from the supernatural.

>>55399309
Conspiracies are not the default, just an option. Most Vigil organizations are not Conspiracies. Reckoning is specifically about powered hunters.

Here's what that guy you were arguing with was saying:

Not every NPC who gets involved with fighting the paranormal neccessarily gets the PC template pushed on them at that time. When a biker loses his brother to a Vampire while he is forced to watch, it doesn't give him special powers. It just potentially makes him mad enough to go out of his way to help you and others who are fighting this shit. And at this point he might become a member of the Hunter community of his area, but the GM doesn't have to give him cool powers.


Additionally, if literally everyone who decides to hunt monsters gets special super powers, it just serves to make the standard Hunter PCs less special.

>>55399329
The brother - and most mortal hunters - choose to fight the monsters. Imbued do not. That's a big difference, and a huge part of H:tR. It's a game that is about more than being a monster hunter, it's about being infused with a broken shard of divine power that compels you into action against your better judgment. Many Imbued try to hold on to their lives, but many can't. The Mission becomes too overwhelming.

>>55399386
Yeah but he's still right: Not all Hunters running around in the game have superpowers. Unless you reserve the name for people with superpowers and claim the rest is just useless baggage. But well, that NPC who isn't imbued but just put up a couple million dollars to bankroll your anti-monster OP (because I dunno a Werewolf ate his favourite Koi) does deserve some credit too.

>>55399411

True, but Reckoning still focuses on the Imbued. Ghouls are important in Vampire, but it's still a game about vampires.

H:tR is a very different game from H:tV or Hunters Hunted and deals with different themes and atmosphere. In H:tR your character is more likely going to be a 50-year old nurse with a granddaughter who needs to learn how to shoot a gun because an angel told her so, not a young biker avenging his brother.

>>55399472
Yeah, desu I always preferred the other type because it's what Hunter does best - focus on average humans stepping up to overwhelming odds, instead of just being another "muh snowflake supes chosen one in a world of snowflake supers chosen ones" (this isn't about the powerlevel at all - just about the origin story).

if i am mage i can imagine a sensual tulpa to fuck?

>>55399576
Shit nigga even a nonmage can imagine anything

>>55399824
but make it real nigga
i mean i imagine your mom in my bed AND SHE IS REALLY THERE!

>>55399576
>show bobs an vagene pls

Aren't some HtV characters imbued with powers from higher powers too ?
I seem to recall the Lucifuge have some spoopy special powers, but can't remember where they got those from

>>55400021
They're the children of the devil. There are a few people who gain their powers from Angels, wether GMC Angels or 'higher power' angels. I think there's a promethean endowment somewhere.

>>55399856
I still don't think you need to be a mage to do that

>>55400021
Yes, some. They belong to the biggest Hunter organizations, which are called Conspiracies.

>>55400199
Agreed.

t. Just fucking question-asker mom pro

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Evause of you faggots I finally read Awakening after being an Acension homo since high school.

I love the system but I just have one question. You just cast two spells at once now and you can't combine Arcana, right?

In Ascension a fireball is Forces 3 Prime 2 but it seems in Awakening it's Forces 4 only?

>>55400515
You CAN combine Arcana, you just don't have to as often as you had to combine Spheres.

>>55400515
You can cast multiple spells at once at Gnosis 3+, but there are certain targetting restrictions.
So you can cast a spell on someone that enhances Intelligence, while granting them Omnivision.

But you can't juggle a pack of Uratha with one hand, while turning a Vampire into popcorn with the other.

Also yeah, in Ascension that was Force 3, plus the obligatory Prime 2 for "something from nothing".

In Awakening, you're preforming a greater act of direct harmful Magic, which is not acting as a side effect of some other manipulation, so it's the practice of Patterning/Unravelling, at 4 dots.

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>>55400553
Oh right, also you only need to combine Arcana when you would by the spell's very nature need both halfs.

e.g.
Turning a Vampire into a Hatrack would require Death 4 (to transform an undead creature) and Matter 4 (to have it end up as inanimate matter).

>>55400532
>>55400553
>>55400570
Thanks for the explanation!

So my genius fans, anyone got any interesting bardos ideas?

>>55400199
Yeah, but it helps preventing you from getting an STD or knocking her up.

>>55401303
Bardos were and still are my least favorite part of Genius. They're an utterly retarded concept.

They should really act as a mania-damper. They're realms of shitty, outdated ideas about the way reality works. Being in them should force you into their ways of thinking, a dangerous prospect, rather than being something beneficial.

They should be avoided. Not embraced.

>>55396040
>What it would mean is that the spells that did manage to get past Withstand ratings that have a base of 5, 6 or 7 would be really weak, and that for Mages below Adept level would be really difficult to attempt and unlikely to succeed.
...that's the point. Apprentices and Disciples can lord over muggles and beings with low power stats (around 1-4). But elders with power stats over 5 are out of their league.

>It would also mean that the spells would almost always have Advanced Duration
...they already are. I never saw a player willing to take -8 for spell to last 30 seconds, instead of spending Reach for it to last one hour for free.

>More over, to get those large dicepools, Mages have to incorporate yantras
Not really. For example, Adept have a minimum dicepool of 8: Arcanum + Gnosis, before any Yantras come up. Master have a minimum dicepool of 10. Apprentices and Disciples wouldn't get large dicepools without multiple Yantras, yes, but that just means that they can't rape elders on the run, without preparation.

>And can't the other splats boost their traits anyway? Even beyond the human maximum?
I don't remember them being able to. Even if they could, how could they know that to boost, reflexively?

>>55400570
I think turning a Changeling would require Fate 4, seeing that is essentially what is filling in the gaps in their being.

>>55402129
>I don't remember them being able to. Even if they could, how could they know that to boost, reflexively?

First and most important thing I would change in crossover is make it so that other supernaturals have a vague idea how they are being fucked with when a spell is cast on them, i.e. they know the Withstand and can spend Willpower/Fuel (if available) to raise it. Everyone except Mages essentially being unable to put up greater Withstand in a pinch is a bit silly.

Although I was always wondering how temporary Resistance boosts interact with long-term spells.
If someone casts a Potency 2 (after regular Withstand) spell on me and I use WP to raise my Withstand, do I cockblock the entire spell or only block its effects for the first Turn (and any other Turns where I spend WP to suppress its effects)?

>>55402298
I don't believe mages get an early warning system. Peripheral mage sight would only let you know of an active magic effect not a spell that's being cast.

You'd need active mage sight or perhaps a prime unveiling spell for passive detection of spell casting.

How can you block an entrance from being a Hedge portal?
Fate and/or space?
Can non-mages do something similar?

>>55402749
Destroy/ban the space around it and hope it doesn't reroute. It probably will.

>>55402890
No, I mean: it's a normal door, only it cannot connect to the hedge.

>>55402749
> How can you block an entrance from being a Hedge portal?
> Fate and/or space?
> Can non-mages do something similar?
Horseshoe on top of it.

>>55403198
I mean above it.

>>55403183
Oh. You probably can't ensure it'll never become one. If it was my game, I'd rule that a space ward or any sort of mystical barrier would require a clash of wills on something appropriate to open it.

Best bet would have your 'no hedge entry' in a single boxy room, with no normal exit, all brushed metal to remove reflections, no windows or real apertures. To exit, do something fucky with Space, or have some sort of 'non door' exit, like a regular wall hooked up to a crane or something.

Would an iron portal block a Gentry from passing true but not a Changeling/human/etc. ?
Would a portal that spray a suspended iron solution work even better?

>>55401661
>They should be avoided.
Just like the Mane that identifies as Ned Ludd?

That is the second worst thing one could find in Genius...the other being proof that Cold Ones and Idigam are the same thing.

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>>55399568

I just don't like Hunter with special shiggy powers. I can see a need for immunity against mind controlling powers and some kind of supernatural vision and maybe immunity to delirium. Psy and True Faith are okay as well.

Flaming sword Hunters with magic kung fu are a big turn off. I guess Hunters Hunted is just enough for me.

>>55399029
>so they can fight literal gods, because anything else would be boring.
Correct, that is the natural conclusion of pretty much any free form magic system. It really can't be street level, if the other lines had comparable powers, those possessing them would more or less be incompatible with the normal game play of those lines.

>>55398866
It gets more hate than it should, i mean, i prefer Vigil but Reckoning still has its charm.

>>55399029
>But shouldn't Mages just be humans with powers?
They are. Mages are still human.
>It would make sense that if most monsters are magical they'd be able to mess as much with it as Mages.
Don't the other splats all have their own "magic" types? Werewolf shamans, vampires doing blood magic, etc. I don't really understand your point.
>Ah, right, because Mages are supposed to be extra special reality warpers so they can fight literal gods
They can't fight literal gods. Not unless they become Archmages. Also, define "literal gods" because as far as I know they're really aren't any in CofD. Just beings who are godlike. The Exarchs are the closest to literal gods, and they can't be fought.
>because anything else would be boring.
That's a matter of opinion, really. Mage's signature setting, Boston, has only one plotline that deals with a godlike entity, and you can't fight it directly. DaveB's own actual plays, the guy often called king magefag, are largely street level stories that sometimes deal with bigger things.

>>55402749
Just make the door frame out of iron. Its pretty simple to no sell pretty much everything changelings do with iron.

>>55402749
Fate 3 to force an iris closed. If you want to destroy it completely that's Unmaking i.e. Fate 5.

>>55405799
A changeling could still pop open a new one even if you unmade the old one, it just might not go to the same place. I guess you could extend the duration of the unmaking spell to make it persistent though.

In 2e, Ward with +2 Reach can keep Irises closed as long as the Ward remains in effect. Attempts to open it with a power result in a Clash of Wills. It's between you and your ST to decide if you also need Fate to specifically block a Hedge portal, although you could argue that you wouldn't need it, going by the purview description.

>>55405930
And Scale factor. You could prevent a Hedge gate from being formed for the duration of the spell anywhere within a couple square miles.

As for making it Lasting. That's up to your GM.

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>>55404747
>Hunters Hunted is just enough for me

I see you too are a man of refined taste.

Isn't cold iron supposed to be only meteoritic iron ?

>>55406454
no that's stupid.
Cold originally came about during the institution of mining. It's a classical science verse myth in early England days. Requiring it coming from space is needless complication.
Stop tying to buff changelings, changeling fag. get under the table and suck your lord mage's Cock.

>>55406454
>Isn't cold iron supposed to be only meteoritic iron ?

Honestly, it just depends a lot on what people mean by "cold iron", since technically, cold iron is just another term for regular iron, just like "cold hard steel" is just another way of saying... regular steel.

But in some cases, both in WoD or in other settings, people want some form of iron to be "special" before it can hurt changelings, so they say it only applies to "iron that's never been forged" or "iron that HAS been forged", or "only iron from meteors" and shit like that.

Going by the regular definition though, cold iron is just regular worked iron.

>>55406454
>cold iron
The 1e books kinda pin it down more to 'non-forged' iron. So if you hand work it after mining it, or it was heated by a meteor (or you use the smith kith and a willpower dot), it all qualifies as 'cold iron'. Also if you use the reach effect for perfected substances with matter.

>>55402180
That's a pretty fucking arbitrary Arcanum addition.

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>>55406286

>my fellow ebonic american

>>55406720
If it's just "non-forged iron", wouldn't you be able to make it with Shaping?

>>55407235
That's just because the guy who suggested it is retarded.

What are some interesting bans for familiars?

>>55407508
A familiar is a type of bond.
What you want, is to find an interesting ban, for a particular type of ephemeral entity.

>>55407771
Okay, fine, spirits, then.

>>55407820
Used condoms, tampons and retainers

>>55407820
Well I had a (Rank 2) Spirit of lucky cats which couldn't take direct harmful action unless it or its interests had suffered some real harm.

Kinda like a "must play with its food" thing.

>>55403262
What about ventilation?

Idea for a Stygian artifact: A leaden coin that uses a combined casting of Shaping and Shrink and Grow to become any kind of tool, weapon, or accessory, etc, up to Size 4. Would I be right in saying that it would cost 5 Merit points/Experiences?

>>55408953
Any kind of tool? That's probably dynamics senpai.

>>55408953
Nope. You hit a couple of major road blocks with that Artifact.

1. Shaping sucks for crafting, given it still requires a roll, use a 3-dot spell to majorly rework the structure thorugh Weaving without having to exert "force" with Ruling.
2. Your reach is only equal to that which the Maximum Arcanum requires, such that given a couple of 3-dot spells (Shrink and Grow, and Restructure Matter - Matter 3 Shaping), you'll only have 1 reach.
3. Your default potency for the spell will be 3, and if you want an object made of anything tougher than stone, you'll have no Potency left over for withstood spells like Shrink and Grow, and only a tiny amount left for Durability 1-2.

>>55409226
That's actually a dynamics example spell.

Aperion, the metal that can restructure and change its properties as needed.
Any tool made from Aperion automatically has a +5 bonus, and grants the 8-again trick on any roll using it.
It has whatever hardness, conductivity, mass, durability, and structure is needed, and may be shaped by hand.

Its quintessence is Stygian Lead brought back from the Supernal, dreams of an impossible structure, the soul of a true craftsman, or the first instance of a particular tool/weapon ever made.

>>55409273
Invest Apeiron with a ghost, spirit, or mind, and you can make the T-1000. Add Thaumium ball bearings and it's immune to magic until they've all exhausted their Mana.

>>55409226
Any kind of tool or weapon that could be one relatively simple shape. Like a hammer and screwdriver to a spear and a sword. I only ask because I'm thinking of converting Boston Unveiled to 2e and building a campaign with it, and apparently a big part of Awakened society in Boston revolves around Artifact and imbued item trading, with a whole cabal having a place set up for just that. I'll probably update items from other 1e supplement books, but I would also like to have more unique things in there. I also plan on testing out some rule and setting tweaks (not for balance) and using Legacyfags updated Legacies because it seems really weird to me that you have all these powerful NPC Mages with specific skills and fields of interest but no Legacies.

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What Arcana would I need to summon swords out of thin air and shoot them at people?

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Any ideas for a Rio de Janeiro VtR game? What aspect of the city should i tackle and maybe how? I have most of it built already but i always like new opinions and i want to check if i forgot something.

>>55411021
There's a CofD book for Rio, but it isn't a Vampire book. Might be worth a look into just to see what mystic weirdness you might be able to lift?

Its Mummy. Mummy has a full Rio book

https://www.anonfiles.cc/file/cfda3e73b4a7813e0fc1a5ba535187de

>>55410903
If you're actually making the swords, that's Matter 5. If you're transporting them from a hoard somewhere, Space 4. Either way, you'll also need Forces 3 to actually throw them.

>>55411218
Forces is also useful for making the effect glow. That seems to be crucial.

>>55410903
Is it just one guy with the interest in bringing Fate over, or is there some weird obsession going on?

>>55408814
Try not to spend too long inside? Rob NASA for their scrubbers? Anything a changeling can fit through can be an opening, or anything reflective, so short of some sort of weird steel mesh..

>>55407340
Anything that doesn't heat it or change its form too easily. The original reason for cold iron driving off the fae was because it was one of the few things older than them. Forging it made it into something new.

>>55411309
Prime is probably closer to what Gilgamesh is doing in the show.

>>55411399
Even if it's a mesh or grate or filter, can't some of them turn into fog or some bullshit, or teleport from shadow to shadow?

>>55411534
When you put it like that, maybe Matter isn't really involved and these are just Phantasms. Prime to conjure 'em, Forces to throw 'em, basically an Obrimos kind of deal. A bit extravagant.

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>>55411568
>>55411534
>>55411218
The way Gil works is he has a vault filled with the archetype of all forms of human craftsmanship, including the prototypes of all mythic weaponry and magical equivalents of all human technology.

In terms of actual fighting skill though he's kind of a weakling by demigod standards, so he just hunks the damn things at people in a beamspam.

>>55411687
That actually does sound like Prime. Guy is calling up platonic ideals.

>>55411551
Sure. But we're talking about hedge portals, rather than perfect anti-changeling defence.

>>55411765
>rather than perfect anti-changeling defence.
You could probably block any Changelings using their powers to enter a place by using Ward with a Fate modifier, although they could always win the Clash.

>>55410903
Space 4. That's it.
Teleportation, and Alter Direction.
All of a sudden, 20+ swords just appeared out of nowhere and all fall from the force of gravity straight into someone's chest.

Fuck it, here's the maths.
Gnosis 3 + Space 4 - 2 (Combined Spell) + 3 (Willpower)
Primary factor is Potency, suffer a -4 penalty to increase the number of subjects to 20.
Reach for Instant Casting, Sensory Range, Sympathetic Range.

So, your final dice pool is 4, from a single turn's decision to stab a motherfucker, and a picture of your collection.
However you've got to test with 4 Paradox dice.

If you succeed at the test however, 20 swords from your collection instantly appear anywhere within line of sight, and being to fall unerringly towards some poor schmuck. Proably place them within 4.9 meters, due to falling spell, and the spell only lasting 1 round. Add in another reach (and +2 paradox dice) for advanced duration, then you can have them fall from further distances, for greater damage.

Of course, that takes Willpower, but it's a simple example of the kind of zany bullshit a Mage with Space 4 can do to try and kill someone, rather than simply, for example, teleporting them 10 kilometers straight up.

I know this is 1e, but am I the only one who thinks the NPCs in Boston Unveiled tend to be underpowered? Like there are Mages in official positions, who have been Awakened for years, with no Arcana above two. I thought this the first time I read it, but now that I'm going through it again after reading 2e, it just seems worse. Not to mention the dot levels of some spells.

>>55411877
While a Disciple or even just Adept can be a Hierarch, as the position is based on wisdom and personal merit rather than Supernal power, yes that does seem a bit stupid.

>>55411877
Yeah. They've always been pretty weird about statting them. Check out the Chicago book; it extends to other lines there too. Hell, the Silver Ladder book has an Archmaster of Mind statted out.

>>55411162
thank you, you beautiful human being (or not)

>>55411873
Your Paradox pool would be 6 at the least. Advanced Scale requires a Reach. To get it down to 0 would take two turns, whether you only use Mana or include your dedicated tool. If you want the spell to happen in one turn, you would still be dealing with 3 Paradox die, which if all countered would be 3 resistant bashing damage. If your Stamina is only 3, that means that you could get the Beaten Down tilt and all further hostile actions require a Willpower point. If there are uncountered successes you get a Paradox Condition. To get it down to zero you would either have to spend 3 Mana a turn, or spend 4 Mana over two turns and include your Dedicated Tool.

This is assuming that there are no Sleepers around to see you summon swords and spears from the sky, or that you were doing it in a pretty open room with a decently high ceiling.

>>55412353
Yes, I'd forgotten that one, 6 dice.

Also dude, you take Bashing equal to the Paradox successes which you remove with your Wisdom, not the Paradox dice themselves.

So even without mitigation you might really just take 1-2 bashing, and you've more than likely got a handle on it.

Also you don't need a high ceiling, just a few meters of room. And if you've got obstacles, add another Reach to allow them to bend around impediments.

>>55411765
But if a changeling can pass through a portal, even if it's in weirdo fog form, can't they attempt to link it to the Hedge?

Actually that might be a good way to create safer portals for personal use. Just only portal through holes most things can't fit through.

>>55412834
Those little gaps won't be actual, proper exits from the Hedge, though, and they'd need to be some sort of door or arch or window they can physically touch and fit through. A gap in a screen won't be forced to open into the hedge unless the changeling is small enough to fit through in the first place.

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What's the best Mage Path to play a barley clothed floating girl

>>55412949
Mastigos with some forces, turn it into a legacy. Or maybe acanthus on the tamers of wind.

>>55412965
Any reason why Mastigos?

>>55412976
The ethereal floating weirdness resonates with them fairly well. I assume barely clothed floater probably has some mental powers, too, if we're going by tropes.

>>55412949
Obrimos. Forces will let you float, and also control temperature so you don't need clothes.

>>55412949
Any Path, with a Forces Legacy.

>>55412799
Right, I don't know why I assumed they would all be successes. I was busy making sure I had all the numbers right, I guess. I'm terrible at math.

>>55401661
well mania forces theories to work, even if they are shitty theories like 'ruby makes things hot while sapphire makes things cold so I put the ruby in the focusing lens to make a heat gun and a sapphire lens for a cold ray'
And mania is produces by normal people so a bunch of it clumping together to form a world isnt too far fetched.

how i build a mage who punches so hard he makes your head go BOOM!?

>>55413187
Forces 2, Kinetic Strike rote.

Another idea for an artifact. Pretty simple, but I like it. A featureless, ovoid black mask. Basically just a smooth, slightly rounded out plane that you put on your face. Putting it on activates it, the spell is Shadow Flesh. Any good name ideas?

how make my female mage have a monstercock

>>55413420
Life 3

>>55411422
>The original reason for cold iron driving off the fae was because it was one of the few things older than them.
So would fossils have the same effect?

>>55413420

But why?

>>55413588
so i can rape vampires werewolfs changelings prometheans hunters and other things

>>55404747
There are like four common Edges total that have any sort of physical representations, the "flaming sword" part being Cleave that deals aggravated to supernaturals or spirits. It doesn't actually look like a supernatural thing except to those with extrasensory perceptions. 80% of Hunter Edges are invisible.

>>55413616
Did a write-up of all level player character 1 Edges to illustrate the point;

Focus - Help fellow hunters regain their conviction with a pep talk.

Foresee - Glimpses future, can roll twice and pick a result few times per session.

Outreach - Supernaturals think you're not a threat, or even interesting.

Bluster - Shout to thwart danger, making it less likely

Project - Supernaturals have a hard time affecting you, because you are projecting your vigor

Demand - Suffer physical damage to have a burst of strength

Discern - Improved Second Sight, darkvision

Vigilance - You need less sleep per night based on Zeal

Hide - Supernaturals ignore you

Fool's Luck - Nudge probabilities to help you when in danger

Alarm - Become aware if a supernatural approaches a zone you've established as your "personal space" around yourself

Ward - Supernaturals can't approach you

Cleave - Melee weapons and unarmed attacks can hurt supernaturals, but weapons break after a few uses.

Impact - Throwing objects can harm more than they usually would, including supernaturals

>>55413579
Probably not, no. Partially because they're not exactly brought up in fairy tales. The iron was supposed to have been laid down at the beginning of the world - all worlds.

>>55413607

Why?

>>55413607

That sounds hot.

Are they females?

Does CofD have flaws? Not in the sense that there's anything wrong with it, but like the opposite of merits.

>>55413892
Persistent negative conditions take that role.
You get nothing upfront, but you have a more reliable way to get beats from pain and suffering.

Favourite vampire covenant? Why?

I'm a massive fan of the Ordo Dracul. The whole victorian occultist/scientists ethos is one thing, but the splatbook expanding on it makes the entire covenant into one giant cult/university/high school. It's both high and low, without the edge (mostly, anyway) of some of the others.

On one hand you're pushing the boundaries of your condition and reaching out to flick God's nose. On the other, that catty whore Jenny in the Axe won't stop stealing your lunch at the park by seducing it away from you.

>>55414306
>On one hand you're pushing the boundaries of your condition and reaching out to flick God's nose.
Are you? I thought there was no god in CofD like there is in oWoD, let alone that he cause the Kindred curse.

>>55414352
Ordo Dracul dogma is that Vlad Dracul was given a middle finger directly by the Lord Himself and embraced without a clan. The less dogmatic ones say that he got eaten by a Gangrel, but that the curse is a direct "I hate you" from God, regardless of Clan. The Lancea Sanctum say similar, but with different bits and pieces.

CofD doesn't have a confirmed 'god', but there are things that claim to be gods, the qashmallim claim to serve them, 1e had Azazel who swore black and blue that he'd met god, that sort of thing. Lore fuckery rather than a direct divinity.

>>55414306
Invictus. I found the Camarilla dull in Masquerade, but the Invictus works. Part of it is because there's no longer nearly as much tyranny of Generation, and part of it is because the Invictus has so many open competitors.

Here's the only model of vampire society that really works, that can last long-term. A favor for a favor, an office for a duty. Selective pressure has turned the rest into parasites on Invictus stability.

Fucking Carthians, they think a revolution will put them in the palace and they don't think past that. Fucking Crones, one shaky step up from Belial's Brood, or down if you're fed up enough with that bowla granola crystal healing pyramid power bullshit. Fucking Lance, styling themselves spiritual authorities over what great sadists they are, not to mention their obviously Satanic blood magic. Fucking Dragons, dissecting fifty hookers to learn how to fart blood mist and leaving responsible people to deal with the consequences.

But the Invictus, the Invictus makes some god damn sense. The Invictus is a system that can get you a haven and a hunting ground, and it does it because you have a role in that system like everybody else, and the philosophy is in service to the real things you really need, not some daffy fucking understudy-to-VII bullshit.

>>55414383
>Selective pressure has turned the rest into parasites on Invictus stability.

That is one aspect I like about them. All the others 'slot in'. The whole 'first estate, second estate, unofficial third estate' thing. Nobility, Church, Scientists, Rabble, Barbarians. It fits perfectly.

Things I'm thinking of homebrewing into my Mage campaign:
>Every Reach beyond your free Reach adds a turn to the casting time. If you're Reaching for power you don't have, it should take more time to call down.
>No spending Merit points on Gnosis. Instead everyone starts with Gnosis 2. (Based on what I saw last thread.)
>For relatively simple spells, High Speech can be used as a reflexive yantra for a +1. You can still incorporate another reflexive yantra.
>Your Dedicated Tool adds a +2 for the sake of being your Dedicated Tool. Other symbols it might have beyond that add die and turns as normal.
>Abyssal entities will not ping on peripheral Mage Sight and can veil themselves from Active Mage Sight, requiring a Clash of Wills to see. Focused Mage Sight strips them of this veil for all Mages in the area, the rushing output of Mana scouring it away.
>Abyssal entities can inflict Paradox Conditions, which can be resisted. Paradox successes in their presence gives them power. (Read: Reach to work with the same as the ST, depending on Rank.)
Paradox while in front of Abyssals: +1 die for Rank 1 (to an already existing pool), 10-again for Rank 2, 8-again for 3, 9-again for 4, Rote for 5.
>Exceptional Luck can't affect spellcasting rolls, period. It doesn't make sense to me that Mages can get lucky or unlucky on their spellcasting rolls.
>Runes: Instead of just being a +2 yantra, runes can hold spells for Mages, anchoring them to a subject. Drawing runes properly takes Gnosis derived ritual time, during which the player rolls Crafts + High Speech and spends a point of Mana. Successfully doing so means the rune is able to hold the spell it's been designed to hold, and the Mage casts the spell with the rune as the subject. Spell factors such as Potency, Duration, and Scale all act normally.
>Legacyfag's Legacies.

Thoughts?

>>55415096
It sort of looks like you're trying to give players extra dice they can't lose, easier access to dice and swapping the role of yantras as time-extension for reach as time extension. I don't quite understand why.

>>55415096
>Thoughts?
Your first Reach option seem a bit much. Overreach is bad enough, and it seems counter to the "power at a price" mechanic they were going for. I mean, what's better, some Mage going "fuck it" and fucking up a bunch of people instantly, far away in a large radius, and taking the heat for his hubris? Or not letting him in the first place because he's got to spend more turns.
I wouldn't make High Speech reflexive, that makes a universal yantra balanced.
Making a dedicated tool an automatic +2 is bad move, as you can have a dedicated tool that isn't really a tool, so it gives the -2 paradix dice effect, but not a postitive dice pool modifier. So less a complaint, more a point. Perhaps letting the dedicated tool get +2 when used as a tool would be good.
Abyssals already don't ping in peripheral, they have to be doing something to ping, and yes, they can use Numina or Influences to hide.
I'd make that Runes thing a subset, perhaps acquired through a merit.

Also glad to hear you're enjoying my updates.

>True Fae holds dear friend of whole motley hostage. Threatens to take them home and subject to duress unless motley solve its riddle in by the second sunset.
Riddle:
>How many oxen does it take to plow a star field?

After successful social roll to persuade Fae to give you more to work with:
>"Fine, silvertongue, have it your way! How many horses does it take to pull the heaviest truck? And please, don't translate directly."

>>55405357
This was reaction to someone arguing against other splats having their magic updated to creative thaumaturgy flexibility.

>>55415148
I don't really have an ulterior motives. I'm just spitballing things that make sense to me. Your Dedicated Tool is your Dedicated Tool. You lose it and you have to use a new tool in every spell you cast for a month to make another. If your enemy gets a hold of it, they have potent sympathetic yantra to use against you. To my mind, it should offer more than just a -2 to Paradox. Be more important. It also encourages player to actually use it, making their spells seem more like spells. As for High Speech, the reasons for it always adding a turn are justified as a need to verbally explain your spell. Which is cool. But what if your spell doesn't take that long to explain? So a +1 to spells with simple, brief effects. Like attack spells. I also feel like this +3 will take the edge off of Reach not being as readily available in combat. Instead, if you use both of these things, you can put another point into into Potency without taking too much from your spell's chances. As for Reach, that really just makes sense to me. You have all these potent effects that you can add to your spells, and if you aren't strong enough to handle it you take Paradox. Which makes sense. But you do it just as fast as a stronger Mage? Doesn't make sense.

>>55415184
I actually made this riddle solvable, so if there is no takers in this thread I'll just post right answer in two hours with guide to how figure it out.

>>55415181
>Your first Reach option seem a bit much
Does it? I think it's appropriate. Especially given Wisdom. A knee-jerk reaction isn't as bad as a deliberate stupid move. Thinking "Yeah, I can do this. I can handle it." is more Hubristic as a "Fuck it." to me. I intend to playtest it anyhow, and I would be open to compromises.
>I wouldn't make High Speech reflexive, that makes a universal yantra balanced.
It would only be reflexive for simple, brief spells and only a +1. Would that really be so bad?
>Perhaps letting the dedicated tool get +2 when used as a tool would be good.
Right, that's what I meant.
>I'd make that Runes thing a subset, perhaps acquired through a merit.
That would be fine with me. The main reason I went with it was because I didn't like Runes being just a +2 yantra, and wanted a easier, if not as reliable way, for Mages to put up Sanctum defenses than having to burn Willpower dots.

Keep up the good work with the Legacies.

>>55415310
>I think it's appropriate
It really just means that without preparation, nobody's even going to be able to reach beyond their normal amount.
Which means in most cases, Mage battles will turn into Mages throwing wildly inaccurate balls of energy at each other, given they have to use up their free reach for Instant Casting (bar Time 4).

>Would that really be so bad?
Given that a Tool yantra is a +1 that requires a specific tool, and can only be used for a specific arcanum and type of spell, or in keeping with your Ordo's principles?
Kinda.
You'd really want to better define exactly the kind of spells that could benefit from it.
I'd probably give something like that as a Legacy Attainment for that Free Council Legacy about refining High Speech.

>>55415230
Well, a reflexive action is something that takes no time, rather than 'some'. Your dedicated tool is something that cloaks your magic, rather than a channel. That said, it can actually be a path tool as well, by RAW. Like, an Obrimos could have a lunargent pendant as a dedicated tool and a path tool because of the perfected material.

>>55415280
English is not my first language. How many chances I've got to solve this?

>>55415343
Plus, with reach adding to casting time - it basically doubles the risk. If your spell is fucked from paradox, it means you've wasted extra time for no reason, compared to. At least with yantras, you're figuring out how to incorporate it into the imago for the delay and getting a tangible bonus, not just some minor fuckery and wasting the free reach on instant casting that isn't instant.

If you hit up the OPP forum, there's a homebrew hub with runelore merits and the like. Sounds like your speed for making them feel more like 'spells'.

>>55415332
>Which means in most cases, Mage battles will turn into Mages throwing wildly inaccurate balls of energy at each other
And in other cases it won't. An Adept would still be able to cast a Fraying spell at Sensory Range, for example, and Master an Unraveling spell. I also don't feel too bad about aimed spells and preparation being emphasized. We'll see how it goes. I won't cling to it if it's a bad move.

>You'd really want to better define exactly the kind of spells that could benefit from it.
I'll nail it down, but what I think when I say this is literally one word, instant yelps. Things like that. Maybe spells with only a duration of one turn?

>>55415357
Like I said, I would be open to compromises. Maybe Reach for spell factors won't add turns, and only Reach that really enhances what the spell does?

>>55415355
English isn't my first either, and don't worry, as many as you need. Though be mindful of others.

>>55415475
>Though be mindful of others.
Others who or waht? Other languages?
The point is: is it a pun-based riddle?

>>55414374
than you got archmasters, maeljin and entities that could claim to be gods.

>>55415762
No. It isn't pun based but it does require some factual and historical information, but you got access to internet.
And as for 'mindful of others', is just try not to spam your guesses so they won't annoy other people in the thread.

>>55415466
There are also Rotes to consider. They would be more important, but also more limited.

Would Djinn and/or Ifrit be spirits, goetia, true fae, or something else?

>>55416800
Describe them.

if a mage is too alone can he in his solitude make his imagination real(a waifu who love his sincerely and intensely)?

>>55416800
We have like three kinds of angels out there, why not all of the above? Goetia can take any form so desert djinn is well within that realm, true fae might take that form, you can probably encounter spirits that look or act like them, so on. Hell, one of the suggestions I've heard for a sixth watchtower in the Supernal has djinn as one of the supernal entities associated with it

Go fucking nuts, m8

>>55413607

Is your storyteller ok with this?

>>55416884
Might be they only hope mages have.

Since we've been on the topic of Hunter this thread, I've got a question about Hunter, Vigil in particular.

Have you ever had a that guy in your cell? Someone working against the group in a team based game is bad enough, but in one like Hunter where a TPK can come in out of nowhere if someone fucks up...

We had a guy like that a while ago, ended up almost getting himself killed more than anyone else though.

General WoD/CofD that guy stories would be cool too, lord knows there's a ton of them in this community.

>>55417340
>three
Qashmallim, the two unrelated kinds from Inferno (no, not demons pretending to be them), god machine angels and Aether angels. Aren't there others, too?

>>55416884
>>55417570

Can my Mage's avatar be his waifu?

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what happens if i make the eiffel tower dissapear in the middle of the day?

>>55419384

You get butraped by paradox

>>55418498
'That fucking guy' exists in all game lines. To be honest masquerade/requiem and awakening has probably the highest concentration in my personal experience.

>>55418498
anon, storytime or fuckoff time.
and there are that guy thread everywhere.

>>55419621
weird, all the thatguyish type I met or heard off are too dumb to enter a mage game.

>>55419493
yeah i know but how would you translate it to the table?
would i be erased from existence or wat?

>>55419845
Probably rote quality on Paradox pool, and at the end of the scene your spell ends from Dissonance as thousands of Parisians fuck with your spell by simply not viewing the Eiffel Tower.

Unlike Ascension, Mages rarely explode from Paradox in Awakening.
However your Wisdom's sure to take a beating.

Today I learned that the creators of Changeling: Dreaming once planned to have all the spines line up and show a piece of artwork related to the Immortal Eyes Trilogy.

Emphasis on "planned" - between shitty printing jobs, the line being put on the back burner and only an 1/8th of the artwork being used, few people even realize it was ever a thing.

http://www.reocities.com/pookaplace/books/spine.html

>>55419845
The main problem would probably be every European Guardian or Seer being out for your ass now.

>>55420695
i teleport to japan and fuck virgins
i wonder why there are ugly mages i mean why they dont just wish theyre handsome?

>>55415184
So the correct answer is: "At least 4,703e+13"
You get this number by converting Lightyears to Furlong. Furlong is measurement unit for how much field a single bull could plow.
The tip with truck and horses is trying to lead players to recall unit "horsepower" that might help them realise that this riddle is about using strange measurement units for arcane matters.
Does this make any sense?

>>55420810
Now that I think about it, "more than one could count on one's fingers." would be an correct answer too and sound more like something changeling players might come up with.

>>55419384

Other peeps have - rightly - pointed out the most likely outcome is Paradox fucking you and, should you survive it, your spell unraveling, and you getting hunted by a whole lot of Mages.

That said... Nothing's stopping you from doing it. A more interesting question is why you would want to. Is destroying the Eiffel Tower a part of a bargain with a spirit or some more alien god? An Omen for your Archmaster patron's Ascension gambit?

Honestly, it's such a grand and graphic and violent change to the world, I'm genuinely intrigued by this now. Nothing stops Mages - or anyone, theoretically - from doing something similar. Sufficiently powerful explosives to take out the legs of the tower exist.

The question isn't "How fucked will I be for Paradox?", it's "Why would you do this and what are the consequences for it?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf4gx-fBfvw
Something about this makes me think of either Mage or Vampire.

>>55419384
Most likely you'll get attention of Archmage of Time, who will hunt your sorry self and eject your out of time for your troubles. If you get lucky, you'll just get attention of local Guardians, who would do the same, and just lobotomize you after the thing.

Why are you guys replying to the 12 year old mobileposter?

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What would be most iconic VtES card? Blood Doll?

>>55421158

I actually think it'd be really interesting to see what happens if someone did that in a game.

>>55416884
Obviously yes. There are many tools for this.
Death 1: Speak with the Dead
Death 2: Ectoplasm, Shape Ephemera, Touch of the Grave
Death 3: Ghost Summons, Quicken Ghost
Death 4: Revenant
Death 5: Create Ghost
Life 2: Mutable Mask
Life 3: Many Faces
Life 4: Shapechanging
Life 5: Create Life
Mind 2: Dream Reaching
Mind 3: Goetic Summons
Mind 4: Hallucination
Mind 5: Psychic Genesis
Prime 5: Eidolon
Spirit 2: Gossamer Touch
Spirit 3: Bolster Spirit, Rouse Spirit, Spirit Summons
Spirit 4: Bind Spirit, Shape Spirit
Spirit 5: Birth Spirit
Time 3: Temporal Summoning

Have a chronicals hunter game tonight, is there a werewolf sample in any of the books?

>>55421947
A Thyrsus is in pretty good shape to make a waifu.

A Moros is too, and there's got to be something related that Matter can do. Something about figurines?

A Mastigos is very good at making a waifu, but is she really all the way real?

An Acanthus has to work with the past selves of living people and can't freely change them. (Temporal Summoning can't bring back the dead.)

An Obrimos will have to wait patiently for Eidolon until he is a Master. But like Matter, isn't there anything Forces can do? To make anime real, you must first effect anime...

>>55422039
I think you could just go to the astral and make a deal with an animu spirit. I guess if you want it as a Familiar you'd need spirit, but you just need to find some similar friendship astral entity to create the bond for you. You don't technically need to even use the practices, it just substantially lowers the burden of work.

why no one plays werewolf?
what does vampire has to offer that werewolfs dont?
i mean vampires are too faggy

>>55422174
I know around here Werewolf LARPers have a horrifying reputatuon, even amongst other larpers.

>>55422163
yeah but and the love
if you create you will have:
>waifu who loves you
>waifu who is virgin wasnt tainted by the foul sin of fornication
>you can even make your "tulpa" look like seiba

>>55422174
Imagine a bunch of dorks playing bs alpha/beta shit in the woods. It gets creepy super fast. Vamps love fake politics, but the wolves just get weird.

>>55422191
>>55422206
>LARPing werewolf
dude wat
LARP is cancer jesus christ

>>55422025
Hunter's Spirit Slayer's book has stats for Werewolves. Take whichever elements from it you like, that's the fun of Hunter.

The book I'm mentioning should be in the mega drive in the OP.

>>55422242
Thanks! Saved my game for tonight, they took a turn i didnt expect last week and ive been doing overtime all week havent had much time for research

>>55422225
You don't like wearing animal furs and growling at people in the middle of a college campus?

talking about werewolf would it be possible to run a campaign were you and your circle are priest who are werewolfs?

>>55422269
No problem anon, have fun.

Bets on how long Beckets and Pentex Employees Handbook will take to come out.

Exile clauses for True Fae Charlatans that were meant to be impossible but are totally doable in our advanced times with little bit of creative thinking and prep time?

>>55405357
>Mage's signature setting, Boston

Not in 2E, it's been changed to NY.

>>55422163
You don't need Spirit to get a familiar, you just need Familiar to be cast on you and your familiar. Any mage with Spirit 4 can bind other mages to familiars.

>>55423093
Gay. New York is too big to be a line's signature setting. It necessitates a monster mash.

>>55423419
The Monster Mash signature city is Tokyo. Every 2e line has it as one of the write up locations, and it is the focus of the Crossover Chronicle when that gets here in 2186 or thereabouts at OPP's publishing schedule

>>55423093
>New York
Is that in Mage's 2e core, or a supplement ?

What exactly does a Wisdom 10 Mage look and behave like?

>>55423419
Hey man, I don't care for the change either, but it's what Brockshaw wants.

>>55423438
I viscerally fucking loathe Hill's "Tokyo by Night" setting.

>>55423531
Good thing he isn't with OPP anymore then. Did he even have developer work on any line before he was on Changeling then left?

Also what's everyone's favorite Tokyo setting from the various lines seen so far: Vampire zaibatsu, NEETwolves, or Diamond mages using a semi religious figure in the past as excuses constantly to dick one another over for power while the Seers make grounds and invent J-Pop as a plan to stifle creativity and control the culture

I'm looking for a good old wod trove, the common ones in the past pin have a lot missing, anyone have a good trove that they can share?

>>55423462
It's in the core. The fiction takes place there, and it's listed as one of the story locations. Personally I prefer Boston, and 1e's fiction. The main thing in New York is that the city proper, Manhattan, hates Pentacle Mages for some reason and parts of it just change or disappear, like Pentacle Sancta and storehouses. Sleepers don't remember the changes (same "it's always been that, even if it just changed five minutes ago" you see here and there") but Mages do. Basically the Pentacle has been shunted out to the surrounding regions, and to go back into the city is apparently so dangerous it's only done on "raids" in which cabals go back to claim Pentacle stuff, like knowledge and artifacts. There's more to it than that, but that's the gist.

>>55423895
this can't be real

>>55423930
>Not knowing the depravity that True Fae get up to

I'm doing Sweet Chowder RIGHT NOW

>>55423438
Wait, they're setting the whole Crossover/Contagion Chronicle in Jay-pan? WEEBS AHOY

>>55424243
I guess they wanna make sure nobody actually plays it.

PRE-IREM: Ashkelon is a thriving Levantine settlement where many, many, many more animals than you would expect are slaughtered. There may be a pre-Shan'iatu secret there.

PRE-TURN: The necropolis now known as Umm el-Qa'ab is begun near Abydos. Massive human sacrifice is conducted. This could be where the Shan'iatu laid a number of mummy candidates to rest before the fall of Irem.

~2500 BC: Asherah is known to the Egyptians as a goddess of love, joy, and motherhood. Here she is called Hathor or Qudshu ("holiness"). She is sometimes depicted as a cow or with a horned cow's head, bears a widely-imitated shielding amulet worn on a necklace, and various personal relationships with other gods are attributed to her. Cult includes both men and women as priests. Likely to have been established during First Sothic Turn.

~2000 BC: Mentuhotep II fights a unification war in Egypt. Umm el-Qa'ab (containing eleven very old tombs) is violated by a rival king's forces. At the request of Ra, Hathor becomes Sekhmet, a brutal war goddess. Sekhmet rampages uncontrollably through Lower Egypt until tricked into quiescence by Ra.

~2000-1550 BC: Ashkelon thrives again as a heavily fortified trading port and enemy of Egypt. Egyptians attempt to lay a curse on Ashkelon as part of a routine government program to curse all hostile foreign powers. There is a shrine to a bull calf idol in the city.

~1500-1200 BC: Asherah is known in Ugarit, on the northern Levantine coast. Here she is called Athirat ("treads on the sea"), or Kodesh ("holiness"). She is involved with the downfall of local civilization.

~1600-1200 BC: Asherah is worshipped among the Hittites in what is now Turkey as a consort of their god. Here she is called Aserdus. She is involved with the downfall of local civilization.

~1200 BC: Asherah is mentioned in Phonecian writings later preserved by Greeks. In the Greek version, she is known as "Dione." Phonecians are famously associated with sea travel and the Levant.

>>55423438
I know there's been a Tokyo section in every major 2e splatbook released to date, but where does the "Crossover Chronicles will use Tokyo as the main setting" bit come from?

~1200 BC: Ashkelon occupied by Philistines. Philistines and Phonecians were probably related and may have been the same people.

~1200-600 BC: The Philistines and Phonecians thrive in the Levant. Phonecian traders ranged across the whole southern Mediterranean and even beyond it and north to Brittany, trading with locals for tin taken from the British Isles. They also traded with a place called Tarshish which has yet to be conclusively identified. It might be within the range already known... and it might not.

~1000 BC: Asherah integrates into an Israelite-cult-supported meret and becomes known as a goddess associated with journeys, the sea, and a kind of relic or monument called an "Asherah pole." She is also called "the Queen of Heaven," possibly indicating that she has returned to a Hathor-like image. Corresponds to Second Sothic Turn.

604 BC: Ashkelon is destroyed by the Neo-Babylonians. The Philistines are taken away.

~600 BC: Asherah is blamed in the Book of Jeremiah for the Babylonian Captivity, in which some Israelites were forced after a series of military defeats to travel inland into the Babylonian Empire of the time. Asherah may also be associated with the Golden Calf, condemned in the Book of Exodus as a false idol that swayed Israelites away from Yahweh.

~600 BC: Asherah is expelled from a meret among the Israelites. One or more Asherah poles are deliberately destroyed, along with her cult equipment.

~550 BC: Asherah is listed on a monument in Tema, 350 miles over land from Jerusalem, as one of three local gods. Connected to the fall of the Neo-Babylonian Empire and the spread of the Israelites.

~550 BC: Ashkelon rebuilt by the Persians under Xerxes. Dog burials. Possible connection to whatever practices led to the vast quantity of animal remains there in pre-Irem times.

>>55424353
>>55424336
~500 BC: Asherah may be the source of material in the Book of Numbers about the sacrifice of a red cow. This sacrifice is associated with ritual purity, atonement for contact with corpses, and in modern times the possible construction of a Third Temple in Jerusalem. It is not clear whether Asherah herself is being credited for the fall of Babylon, or whether Numbers is claiming that the Israelites were rewarded with the fall of Babylon after casting Asherah out.

~100 BC: Witch hunt in Ashkelon. 80 women are killed for practicing witchcraft. Possible cult purge.

37-4 BC: King Herod reigns over Judea, including Ashkelon. He has a reputation for cruelty, paranoia, and violence. He expands the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and builds so heavily in Ashkelon that it's incorrectly rumored he was born there.

~1200 AD: "Sheikh Awad" is interred in a tomb in Ashkelon.

~1300 AD: Ashkelon is destroyed by Mamluks.

1948 AD: Ashkelon is occupied by Egypt and bombed and shelled by Israel during the war.

~1950 AD: Ashkelon's Palestinians are deported, possibly breaking up local cults.

1954 AD: Ashkelon investigated by archaeologist Jean Perrot.

1991 AD: Bronze Age bull calf shrine discovered in Ashkelon.

1997-1998 AD: Ashkelon investigated by archaeologist Yosef Garfinkel.

before 2004 AD: A Holiday Inn of an unusual dome design is constructed next to the tomb of "Sheikh Awad" in Ashkelon, possibly a major tomb upgrade for a mummy previously residing in the Awad tomb.

2008 AD: Ashkelon excavation details published.

2008-2010 AD: Ashkelon is struck repeatedly by rockets from Gaza. There are no fatalities, but buildings are damaged. Could this have been in response to secrets about Ashkelon revealed by recent archaeology?

Ashkelon's modern insignia is a pillar.

>>55424349
I thought it was Philadelphia?

>>55424349
I mean I could be imagining it, but I could swear when it was first mentioned as a real thing that was said on the forums by someone in OPP.

I of course could be hallucinating and welcome anyone to prove me right or wrong. I don't even know where to look for this, really

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>>55423861

>New York in upcoming Tome of the Pentacle

>>55424401
Before David Hill stopped working for OPP, I might have believed it. But now that he's gone? Not so much.

>>55424584
What was wrong with the Boston setting?

>>55424584
Weren't most of the New York mages we saw with a known Order Mystagogues in the Fallen World Anthology?

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So, the story of the creation of the Fallen World where the Exarchs ascended to the supernal realms (whatever those actually ARE) and cut them off from the world to create the Lie and the Fallen state it is now in is Seer and Diamond legendum.

However it really is just that, since they both kind of formed their long term stances on what these things are at the same time in the Hellenistic period. So strip all that away, and take just these things: There's a realm of amazing truth/creative energies that helps make this world, there's a terrible thing in between it, and there's evil god-entities living in that far realm/signal/symbolic belief zone.

What kind of other Awakened cosmologies could you create that might actually fit within that but still give your local Silver Ladder Atlantis-bible thumper the vapors?

>>55418498
>new guy shows up for a session, is given a choice of premade characters
>only experience is d&d
>chosen character is a rational, competent ex-military who likes to tinker, mainly with guns
>immediately changes the character's last name to his own last name
>we start playing
>we've caught wind of two ghastly murders, where the victims have been torn to shreds by what seems to be claws
>we figure out that it coincides more or less with the full moon, so being a bunch of new and inexperienced hunters we think this is a movie-style werewolf
>one was found dead in a motel room, we manage to talk the manager into letting us see the room
>it's been renovated, so little help
>new guy wants to stick around to look for "animal tracks"
>of course he finds nothing
>eventually manage to connect the victims to the same bar
>we go in and talk to the patrons for information
>he goes up to the bartender, asks him a few questions, and challenges him to a "shooting contest"
>bartender asks him to get the fuck out
>new guy draws his guns
>bartender calls the police
>new guy decides to wait for the cops outside
>manage to convince them that he has all the proper permits and that this was just a huge misunderstanding
>rest of us still gathering info, have a good idea of who the killer might be
>new guy decides to break into a nearby apartment complex, because he can
>can't get the outer door open, pretends to be a kid over the door phone

>>55424805
>gets rejected until some idiot actually goes out to check the door
>sees it's a grown man, says he's going to call the cops before going back to his apartment
>instead of turning back, the new guy keeps trying until someone opens the door for him
>picks the lock of the first apartment he finds
>no one inside
>switches into the owner's bathrobe, hides his guns, pretends to live there when the cops come
>the rest of us call it a night and decide to return tomorrow to handle the suspects
>new guy watches television and steals shit from the apartment, before eventually leaving
>cell meets up again the next day, unlike the rest he wants to go to the victim's college
>we go along, figure we might as well talk to some students that knew the victim
>new guy wants to talk to the teachers for some reason
>new guy is wearing the bathrobe from the apartment he broke into, guns visible
>gets thrown out by campus security
>new guy tries to sneak back inside
>fails and gets the cops called on him again
>we need to leave because of him
>go back to the bar, because the suspects are regulars
>it's early, the bar isn't open
>the rest of us gather to prepare for the night ahead, it will be full moon tonight
>new guy decides to go back to the apartment he broke into
>the guy who lives there is home
>it's the bartender
>bartender calls the cops on him again, he tries to talk his way out of it but is arrested

>>55424817
>the st is essentially trying to separate this living derail from the other players, and no one is interested in busting him out
>other players set their plan to get the killer into motion
>new guy ends up in a holding cell with one of our werewolf suspects
>eventually night comes, suspect starts to transform
>new guy attracts the cops by yelling that someone has a gun
>he becomes something a lot lesser than a werewolf, but our hunters are too new to really the understand the difference between true yiffs and lesser supernaturals
>two cops come, start filling the thing with lead, and it seems to die
>new guy is let out
>cops are in a panic, they have no idea what's going on
>new guy manages to get one of their handguns
>new guy shoots and kills both cops
>new guy shoots himself in the leg
>new guy tosses the gun into the cell
>more cops come running, he says "it ran that way" and point in the directions the cops came from
>ignoring the fact that his cover story makes no fucking sense and that the police now have a supernatural corpse
>at this time everything is so confusing that we have no idea what's going on anymore, this is just from memory
>with his character sent to get medical attention, new guy leaves early
>the rest of the players wrap up the plot without him
And these are just the highlights of that session, or what I can remember of it

He was a decent enough guy I guess, not as obnoxious as some that guys are, but a complete trainwreck in the actual game

>>55424827

If the new guy is incapable of actually working constructively with the other players, boot him from the group. Who needs that crap.

>>55424401
I have Gnosis 1 and Time 3. I want to cast a Divination to determine whether Contagion Chronicle will be primarily set in Tokyo. Will I need Space 2 and a sympathetic connection, or can I pull up a web page that will have my answer in the future and use sensory range on that? I'll say yes for now, but this is iffy.

A Time 1 effect with Time 3 gives three free Reaches, which I'll use for sensory range, remote subject, and specific questions.

Using a glass/silver mirror as a Tool, I get +1. Gnosis 1 plus Time 3 plus 1 for Tool = 5 dice. I can ask a number of questions equal to Potency. Potency is the primary factor, so with Time 3 I can move it two steps up, to Potency 3, and ask 3 questions.

No risk of Paradox. This is the first spell I have cast in this scene. There are no witnesses and it will have no visible effect. But wait! With a Reach I can cast instantly at the cost of a Paradox die, instead of it taking three fucking hours (Gnosis 1 ritual interval). I won't be containing the Paradox; I want to know the answer but I'm not going to hurt myself over it.

Rolling five dice: 3, 4, 9, 9, 2. Two successes.
Rolling one Paradox die: 3. Zero successes. Suck it, Abyss!

Three questions:
1. Will Contagion Chronicle take place primarily in Tokyo?
2. When will Contagion Chronicle be published?
3. What will be Contagion Chronicle's biggest problem, as seen by /wodg/?

All right, STs, now you can finally give me some answers, although depending on how far into the future I have to look for these outcomes, the information I obtain may be unreliable.

>>55424912
>There are no witnesses

But anon, this thread is full of sleepers. Look at all the Hunter fans!

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>>55424912
>1. Will Contagion Chronicle take place primarily in Tokyo?
>2. When will Contagion Chronicle be published?
>3. What will be Contagion Chronicle's biggest problem, as seen by /wodg/?

No, 2019 or 2020, and besides the inclusion of Beast and the fact that Mage won't be nerfed power wise? Definitely the fact the Deviant fiction has zero Kamen Rider references at all

>J-Pop is a Seer plot to enslave Japan
>K-Pop has a high fame Banisher in a band starting a cult and movement, who lost her mind in her Awakening and her music is now slowly weaving a great magic

Man, DaveB really has it out for formulaic, industry driven cultural music shit.

>>55424977
DaveB, I've seen the future. You need to put a Kamen Rider reference in Deviant material! It's not too late!

>>55425078
Isn't that David Hill, not David Brookshaw?

>>55425111
Well those both come out of Mage 2e. So no, DaveB

>>55425129

Hill wrote the Tokyo part, a writer who is not DaveB wrote the Banisher examples.

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There is any easy way to be a Mage [Awakening] who summons platemail out of nowhere and beats people to death before putting the armor back into hammerspace?

Pic unrelated I swear.

>>55425156
Probably an artifact.

>>55424958
Let's reroll that Paradox at two dice (Reach +1, Sleeper witnesses +1) with the rote quality (full crowd, reroll failures on first roll).

First roll: 4, 4
Rote condition reroll: 1, 8

Because I got two successes, this wouldn't be enough to cause the spell to fail. I'm medium Wise, so changes will last for a day. With 1 Paradox Reach, a Condition can be given to the spell target.

For the next 24 hours, this thread is now Shitposted In. Sorry guys, it's the price of magic.

>>55425150
DaveB likes music in games. He based Soul Cage's concept on a song, and didn't he put that song-assisted character creation stuff in the Mage 2e Storytelling chapter?

>>55425156
There are a bunch of ways to do that. Prime is the most straightforward.

>>55425200
Yeah that was honestly the worst part of the book to me. I love music too but that was weirdly pretentious in a dumb way. Pretentious can be okay if the idea it is overselling is okay, but this really was not.

>>55425244
I agree, it seemed contrived.

>>55425338
In VtR 2e we had the Ladder which I felt worked pretty well for vampires. Mage gives us this weird music thing. Did Werewolf give us a Pack system? Maybe its just an onus on all 2e devs now to have a weird artsy group gen system.

>>55425200

Right but the point is that he specifically didn't write any of those. DaveB's actual writing on Mage core is probably just the introduction, the main non-magic rules part, and other bits and bobs. Devs do very little actual writing in core rulebooks, at least not the parts that people pay attention to.

>>55425548
Soul Cage is DaveB's own Actual Play

>>55425567

I meant the Kpop and Jpop references in the Mage core specifically, my bad for not being more clear.

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>>55420694
Man, shitty planning ground down owod so much.

>>55424371
So, uh, Ashkelon are just a pack of oppressed mummy cultists?

>>55424977
>Kamen Rider

Excuse me? Kamen RIDER? NOT the glorious derivative, Hentai Kamen?

Get out.

>>55425814
Yes, and their fucked-up mummy has been causing trouble and getting kicked out of places for thousands of years.

>>55425857
I mean, a mummy getting kicked out of places for thousands of years seems about right for some stripes of them.

>>55425857
Yasser Arafat used to talk about it a lot. Is Yasser Arafat secretly the Arisen, waiting for a chance to rise again?

>>55424336
>>55424353
>>55424371
Are you jakki

>>55420988
Disappear does not equal destroy

>>55425888
He's a fucking Sadikh.

>>55425911
No, I'm the other faggot who's read (most of) that stupid corebook.

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>>55425962
There's three of us? By the Judges, a miracle

I have to ask, the archmasters are kinda in a 'cold war' type deal, they dont really do much in the retconning type deal otherwise the otherside gets mad right?

>>55426120
If anyone steps too far out of line there's a bunch of other dudes ready to undo their work and blast them. Basically yeah, though they operate with lesser proxies all the time and if they do shit without using Imperial magic they're still a super powerful mage.

>>55426132
I guess thats good as otherwise if you write 'the archmasters retcon all the time' it kinda makes any chronicle feel pointless as 'the archmasters will fix it'
Yeah even if they dont mess with history they can still fry new york in a few minutes.

>>55426132
Imperial Magic is sort of ludicrously restricted, too. You do it anywhere but your golden road and people start asking some really pointed questions that aren't really questions, like "die" and "I'm going to fucking murder you"

>>55426157
>>55426120
>>55426158
Slight correction. Cosmic retcons are actually the only acceptable form of mass-magic. The Pax does not apply to retconning.

If you shoot a meteor at the Vatican to get rid of Christianity, the other archmasters will fuck you up, but if you rewrite history so it never existed in the first place you're in the clear.

>>55426183
So how much do they rearrange history on a regular basis? I know a lot of supernaturals like vamps and such are unable as there are higher ups that 'vouch for them' or whatever.

>>55426202
Ok to add to this, the archmasters theorise how the retcons work right? like on theory is alt timeline creations and another is they just go to a universe were the change occurred and such?

>>55426223
There are theories but at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

>>55426202
Basically, the pax doesn't apply to the Imperium rites. You need to complete an omen for it to fuck with history, and that omen needs to be one that deliberately rewrites history, not just starts it on a new path.

Direct numbers and frequency, nobody knows, but I'd guess it's not that often given the work involved and the constant jockeying.

>>55426262
yeah archmasters are jockeying with other archmaster right?

>>55426304
If you read the Imperium section, half of the rites boil down to "No, fuck you" and making what they're doing harder/impossible.

>>55426223
When you run your game, just assume that the archmasters are off somewhere showing each other their dicks so subtly that what your players are dealing with is indistinguishable from a theoretically autonomous reality. Because the reality is that archmasters are so constrained and weird that they're generally not good game material. Meanwhile all the playable shit has been designed (one hopes) to be good game material, and relative to the archmasters it is. You absolutely do not need to know what Merlin is doing in his golden road to run your werewolf, vampire, changeling, or even mage game. At the absolute MOST, an archmaster might give a weird vision or a tiny and deniable amount of momentary assistance to somebody of especial interest to their shit.

So an analogy would be:

Reality is the Internet, the Archmasters are browsing the internet and you don't really want to know what they're doing because they could be masturbating to some scat porn, and that scat porn could be you and you're just about to be unloaded upon.

>>55427090
Reality is the internet and the archmasters are shitposting on a board you never go to and couldn't find anyway, and nobody but them gets any of their jokes.

>>55427090
An analogy would be that you're part of a gigantic program, and people playing with Imperium rites are mucking around in the code while others try to reverse changes they've made and make changes of their own. You have no idea that people are doing it, and can't know, because you're part of one giant cosmic program.

>>55427109
>>55427110

So, archmages are mage supremacy shitposters on /CofDreality/?

>>55425156
Space 4, summon Platemail from your secret base when you need it.

Prime 3, Forces 3, create a suit of Platonic Platemail out of Mana that doesn't look like a tass-construct. Absorb the Mana back into your pattern at the end of the scene.

>>55427120
No, your PCs are posting on /cofdreality/ and archmages are posting the same glitch picture over and over again on some Chinese board you've never heard of.

>>55427224
Your browser can't even render the picture, and their Chinese characters aren't configured properly for Unicode.

>>55423489
gandalf the white

>>55423489
The Oracle in The Matrix. Barely does magic.

>>55423489
You know those strange old men you see in huge cities sometimes? Cosmopolitan ones, places like New York or the cleaner parts of Beijing, Paris, Joburg? The ones who look so goddamned content with their place in the world? They're playing chess in the park, drinking tea/coffee/whatever, but have that creepy inner contentment thing going on, as though a giant hand could reach down and swat them and they'd have no regrets. Everyone they speak to they smile at, and it's a bit infectious - they leave that weird little trail of ripples behind them. People are happier or more introspective after a few minutes of chat. They're just so confident and secure in who they are, what they are and how they do it. They somehow give the impression that everything has a purpose.

That. That's a Wisdom 10 mage.

Do you have any interesting headcanons about Exarchs, Oracles and Ascension War? Maybe you have adopted some rumors about ententes from Imperial Mysteries as your personal headcanon?

>>55423489
Dirty filthy stinking holier-than-thou hippies who don't have the balls to properly use the enlightenment they've been given.

is it possible to become immortal as mage?

>>55428005
There are ways, but none of them are really simple, or otherwise without strings. Any Mage that supernaturally extends his life well beyond a natural lifespan is called a lich, and if they aren't considered outright left-handed (depending on the method), they're usually frowned upon.

>>55427861
Nailed it.

>>55428005
Yes, you can become archmage. Only this grants proper immortality. Everything else either makes you inhuman, or makes you dependent on some kind of resource (like souls, or lifeforce, or what-you-name), or just extends your lifespan.

>>55428166
Archmages aren't properly immortal. They just don't age inside of their Golden Roads. They can meditate into the Fallen World like Mages can meditate into the Astral (effectively having "dream" bodies that aren't very important to them) but otherwise they're pretty much mortal, to the extent of my knowledge.

>>55428223
I didn't say they were invulnerable - only Ascended beings count, and even they could be hurt. But given that archmages don't age inside Golden Roads, and they can send their dreamforms and ochemata into the Fallen, there is just no reason for them to leave their Golden Roads, which makes them functionally immortal.

>>55427916
This isn't ironclad, it's just a theory people should be aware of that might be true. There is no war. Every mage who Ascends understands that the Abyss and the Lie are necessary, that the Supernal and the Fallen can't ever be united, and that as much as people are discontent with it, the current reality is just about the best possible.

Their main concern is keeping things this way, but it's like fixing the masts on a ship in a bottle. They're too big, the world is too small, it's generally better to let the un-Ascended sort it out if they can. As well-meaning as the Ascended are, their interference could cause cosmic problems of its own.

The whole idea of Seers vs. Pentacle is, at the top level, a put-on. They're sorted for temperament and task type and they get different kinds of direction from above.

The Gate is forbidden and abusable, a dangerous symbol in the Fallen World, but any of the Exarchs or Oracles could and would take her place. She isn't crazy or a renegade. She is part of the necessary arrangement that keeps the universe a place where birds can fly and fish can swim.

Most PCs, or their players, would be annoyed to have this confirmed. The average Pentacle or Seer mage is personally invested in the war to some degree, even if it's just "I hope those assholes don't get me." No, this is a surprise to save for the PCs who really make it all the way. That way it's their personal triumph, rising above the war to something greater. The war isn't raging. The Pax isn't a grudging compromise. The backstabbing in the Seers has no parallel in the Exarchs. Everything not only is going to be okay, it's already as okay as it's going to be. And it can be kept that way.

>>55428355
It's semantics at this point, but I take being properly immortal to mean that they at the least don't age, period. For all intents and purposes Archmages are effectively immortal, because of what you lined out, but not actually immortal.

>>55426324
I forget, what was the level of spirits archmasters were equivalent too? was it planetary?

>>55428399
They aren't. Apples and oranges.

>>55428402
I know but its good to have a comparison.

>>55428399
It's Rank 5 at the least, because of the Honorary Rank Attainment for Spirit. An Archmaster that had Spirit as his main Arcanum could be higher than that.

>>55428392
They are mortal only if they choose to stay in the Fallen. And why would they, given that they can do everything they need with the dreamforms? Beside that, archmages can alter their own template and become actually immortal. Kadmon from IM did just that; I'd say that alternate forms of immortality possible with other Arcana: you alternate flow of Time in your own body, you "curse" yourself to never age with Fate, you make your body perfect unaging machine with Matter, and so on.

>>55428368
How does worldly activity of Exarchs tie in with your theory? You know - guiding their Ministries, sending visions to other Seers, killing other archmages, countering their attempts to make the world better, and so on? You could argue that Oracles have chose to leave this world be, but Exarchs are pretty active in enforcing their heavenly mandate.

>>55428422
You can't compare them. They have different powers, different mechanics. There's no direct comparison. The closest you can do is check the way they can improvise numina according to Mage practices.

>>55428399
Depends.

Gaia would be Rank 9, but it's not clear whether she exists, or whether other Planets would be quite as powerful (Earth is pretty juicy and full of Essence).

Other major players that Magefags like to masturbate over turning into Spirits of Jockstraps, include Rank 8's, like Luna.

Blow that are Rank 6-7's who're only kinda Gods.
Important places and things are likely Rank 6, lesser Concepts are likely Rank 7.
Remember that higher Rank Spirits can generate Spirits of a lesser Rank than them to serve their needs.

How do you describe something pinging on peripheral Mage Sight?

>>55428652
There is literally a part in the book about that.
It's called "Peripheral Mage Sight".
Long story short, it's a light tingle from your signature nimbus.
Signs of Sorcery dev material suggests that it shows specifically what's triggering it, and it even triggers in recordings of Supernatural events.

>>55428447
It keeps the Fallen World stable. If they didn't do that stuff, then people inside the Lie would immanentize the eschaton. As the Fallen World grows less fallen, its ties to the Supernal strengthen. Every tie between Fallen and Supernal goes through the Abyss. The Abyss would ride into the Lie on that increased Supernal resonance and lay it waste.

The Oracles don't leave this world be, they send Awakenings. This too is a dangerous but necessary process. With no mages, the Fallen World would lose its connection to the Supernal, becoming more like the Abyss. The Supernal also would lose something critical and wither away, to say nothing of the Fallen World being its source for new Ascended beings (and it helps to have more as the world grows more complicated in terms of number of people, degree of scientific knowledge, amount of human-created information...).

The Seers are active and direct agents of the Exarchs. Most mages aren't temperamentally suited to do their best work in the Seers, though. The Oracles rule with a lighter hand. They probably won't specifically instruct Pentacle mages to do a specific thing, but they'll guide the creation of an organization that does that general kind of thing. That's how the Mysterium as we know it formed, and it's why the Atlantean Orders resist suppression — a bit like how a mummy's cult can be revived while the mummy sleeps.

From your experience what each gamelines early game is generally like?

>>55428970
Werewolf tends to devolve into 'overextension'. Lots of early warfare with small opponents, rapidly ramping up until.. the Pack ends up picking a fight they can't win in their newfound strength. The rest of the campaign involves you dealing with the fallout from what you needed to do to survive the shitfight that results.

>>55428970
Mortals: Somebody asked you to look into something weird.
Hunters: Monster of the week.
Vampire, oldstyle: Your coterie is new and an elder has asked you to do something that sounds simple enough. This style is a holdover from Masquerade, don't lean on it too hard longterm.
Vampire, newstyle: Your coterie is short on blood and it's nobody's problem but yours, whatcha gonna do? Basic survival and security can be a long-term theme in Vampire.
Werewolf: Monster of the week, with reliable b-plots like "do something cool with our territory" or "get something long-term out of a spirit" or "pack member issue" or LODGEZZ BOYEE
Mage: Your cabal has been asked by somebody in the Consilium to look into something weird. Later: Obsessions, also security.
Changeling: Your motley has been asked by somebody in the Court to look into something weird, BUT PCs have regular-life b-plot hindering them. Goblin Markets/Goblin Fruit are ways to get supernatural early without raising the stakes too high. Early game is no place for a serious attempt to rekidnap a PC, save that for when they've established a real life to lose.
Mummy: Make your characters, and I'll tell you about the system and setting. [many hours later] You all wake up remembering nothing.
Geist: A ghost either has a problem or is a problem. Client/monster of the week.
Promethean: As of 2e it's a relatively structured start. The throng is someplace where they can do their roles, the Disquiet clock is ticking, they need real Vigilante or Follower or whatever experience as fast as they can. Soon they'll move on to the next place and the next role. Surprise pointless Pandoran fight.
Demon: An Agency senior sends the ring out to look into a God-Machine lead.
Beast: Not sure. But what SHOULD be typical is Postal 2, where you're living a normal life, but it's kind of irritating and you have options. Catch is, PCs need to be able to interact normally with people.

>>55429057
This sounds really good. I like how the Oath of the Moon means a PC pack's defeat isn't likely to just get them executed. You can't win every fight, but life goes on. Watch out for Blood Talons though.

>>55429163
Not only that.

A poorly chosen Siskur-dah ends with you irritating the head of a local choir, or impinging on some local alliances. Maybe you wake up a baby idigam, or kick the bale-hound hornets nest.

>>55428970
Genius: Light hearted pulp adventure with local maniacs and cryptids.

Might go something like this:
>I think my neighbor might be building a nuke, guys. We should probably look into it.
>several days later:
>I am in mental hospital, I need to power drill my teeth to remove mind controlling parasites out of my gums, and the WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS SECRETLY ONTO IT ALL ALONG

>>55429194
Also good. The beautiful thing is that the PCs can pick their own poison. If the ST sent them a fight they just couldn't win, that would be lame, but the pack choosing its own targets and the dice falling where they may, that's sublime.

>>55429967

>>55419660
Our cross platform game has an interesting That Guy solution.

All That Guys in cross platform nearly invariably choose Mage, there has been only one exception. Mage has it's own seperate plot that is related to the main plot, but it's Mage only. Honestly I'm shocked at how well it's gone, but I can't imagine how much extra work it it's for the ST.