/HHG/ Horus Heresy General

First for Sailor Mor.

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>>55388027
>just about to create the new general
>someone else is already on the job

Excellent, now we all can discuss why the Night Lords are such jobbing idiots and if the Emperor created them to serve solely as laughingstock.

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reposting from other threat:

So I bought this guy on a whim, looks like I might be starting an Iron Warriors army!
any CnC would be nice
are there any plans for 30k to be adapted to the new edition? I only play with a few people and none of them have HH armies so I was thinking about calling my army a group of loyalists who fought in the heresy and through warp shenanigans ended up in the current era

>>55388053

Judge-Dredd-meets-deniable-atrocities were always cool. The problem is that BL fucking suck at giving Curze character.

>>55388058
>are there any plans for 30k to be adapted to the new edition?
Not right now, but there are unofficial efforts in various forums here and there. You'll probably have to squeeze your force into the 8th ed. Chaos Space Marines codex, using the FW index for Heresy-era vehicles.

The model looks good. If you're getting into IW, try oil washes, it'll change your life.

>>55388058
Clean up your paintjob and don't bother writing any fluff to explain why your plastic toys are fighting other plastic toys. FW isn't planning on updating their rules to 8th since the studio is in shambles.

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>>55388053
>>55388053

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>>55388058
Welcome my iron brother. It looks decent, might need a highlight on the skin and a bit of touch up on the front hazad stripes.

We're in for a long wait until HH are in 8th, I'm afraid.

>>55388098
Oil washes eh? Which ones are good?

I hope at some points we get Legio Astorum aka Warp Runners. Legion of teleporting titans from Lucius.

>>55388027
I'd paint WE if white wasn't such a bitch to paint.
Also what's the op image referencing?

>>55388058
Why not just use the models? I use my 30k models in 40k without any fluff justification.

>>55388273
This
I know a guy who plays loyalist WE in 40k. He adapts the rules into 8th, no one really cares enough to stop him or bitch.

>>55388271
White is easy to paint as long as you start with a white undercoat and just pinwash the recesses.

If you paint white with a black undercoat you're gonna have a baad time.

>>55388271

The time that Autek Mor weaponised a moon and threw it at a WE recruiting world.
> HH6 best fluff

>>55388321
I base all my model with black. I should probably get a white spray, I guess.

>>55388027
Does anyone know when there will be 8th edition rules for the new/upcoming Custodes stuff?

>>55388104
but fluff is fun ?

>>55388273
I've been running my Alphas as CSM in 8th just to get some damned games in with them. Lucky me that Alpha Legion is one legion that can easily get away with having no spikey bitz and lots of uncorrupted ancient tech

>>55388058
>loyalists
>>55388305
>loyalist

Why? Wouldn't CSM rules work way better for them, both thematically and rules wise?

As I'm building my army, I tend to keep 40k rules (mainly unit compositions and options) in mind so I can make the most out of the models in both games.

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WIP Solars. Left is nuln only, right is abby black with nuln wash. I'm thinking I'll go right, but what do you think hhg?

>>55388259
Just buy artist's spirits at an art supply store (less smelly than hardware store spirits) and three oil paints: black, some sort of dark brown, and a bunrt umber sort of color.

Basecoat your mini, maybe do some rough highlights, then gloss varnish. Get an inexpensive or old brush and shade it with the brown or a mix of those paints (diluted with spirits). Dab some on and it should seep around rivets and into crevasses. They take like a full day to dry, so they're very forgiving. Remove the excess after an hour or so with a q-tip. On vehicles, dab on some burnt umber at rivets and hatch edges and pull downward for oil or rust streaks.

Some people lay them on very thick, let them dry a bit, then wipe them off with a rag, buffing the model at the same time. The Warhounds on Battle Bunnies are done that way, I think.

>>55388360
You could start with a black undercoat, then spray white primer over it but only from the top, give or take 45 degrees. That gives you some zenithal highlighting. Then basecoat with Ulthuan Gray or something similar - a light gray, basically. That one is a cool gray (has some blue in it); if you want warm, use a khaki or ivory. Where it goes over black, it'll still look dark. Highlight with pure white.

Using anything lighter as your base color ends up looking cartoony.

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>>55388027

Custodes get all the attention. Does anyone use Sisters of Silence here? They look grand.

> Prosecutors are basically Tacticals but trade S4/T4 for anti-psyker and Mutable Tactics
> I4 AP2 S4 PE melee for 12pts hot diggedy damn
> Literal units of 18pt A2 Power Axes, Ass2 Snipers and Grenade Launchers
> DT is an upgunned Predator that also sneaks and has a fucking Assault Ramp

They seem absolutely incredible and super easy to slot in as Allies.
Why are Custodes hogging all the spotlight?
I'm aware that they lack anti-tank, but as Allies they seem incredibly potent even before considering their anti-psyker streak.

>>55388446

The Nuln Oil has given you some pretty sweet highlights for absolutely no effort.
I would do both; Prime white, wash in Nuln Oil, then put Abaddon Black in the centre of the plates just to smooth out the colour.
Do not paint anywhere near the edges and let those cheap cheaty highlights shine through.

>>55388496
Because Custodes Tribune can kill Primarch in duel.

>>55388520
Oh, those highlights were put in later with whitescar/ulthuan gray.

>>55388496
It's the mandatory Sisters HQ that does it for me. I can run a Shield Captain, Navigator (counts as Malcador) and a Knights-Errant if I also have to field a Sister HQ. Would love to make a unit or two just so I can field the Emperor's Marital Aid.

>>55388496
I've been looking at starting a mono-sisters army. The mandatory hq isn't too bad if you take the command squad and get those adrathic weapons they can take, at least it's *something* that can pen 14, even if it's not reliable. Spamming the shit out if their DT does get you 2 missiles and a multi-melta, for whatever that's worth

>>55388267
I feel you right there bro. Maybe with scatter apocalyptic blasts on teleport failure, representing shitstorms of titans being swallowed by the Warp.

>>55388455
Cool, can't wait to try this. Thanks!

Can someone drop a link to the individual legion rules?

>>55388922
mega at the top of the thread buddy

>>55388496
Custodes have Tribune who can fight Primarchs and win.
Dreads with rapidfire lascannon spear, 3W elites, all army is at least 2+ 5++.
Sisters are nice but Custodes are killing machines

>>55388533
After like 5 straight turns of fighting.

>>55389323
Yeah, it's their defense that's ridiculous. Someone did a binomial distribution for a 10-man squad with either melta- or plasmaguns, I forget which. 50% chance of taking down a typical primarch in one turn of shooting. 6% of taking down a tribune. 3+ rerollable invuln is insane.

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>>55389417

If your opponent is dick enough to play a LoS-abusing HetaeronStar, just Tank Shock him away. Recon Company can do this first turn, every time.

> Crunch!

>>55389417
Just swamp him in shitty models. Mechanicum can field 20 T3 fearless models for 80 points. By the time he finishes chewing through 20 models the game is almost over. Tribune has no mobility options like a regular praetor, he cannot take a jump pack or jetbike and unlike primarchs he doesn't buff his entire army to a massive extent (eg. Fulgrim giving +2 to combat resolution across the army, getting to choose his warlord trait, and getting to reroll reserves).

>>55389485
I've never played with tanks, how does tankshock work?

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>>55388428
Because people are allowed to like the aesthetics of a legion without having to through their lot in with detestable traitors like Horus, Lorgar, Pert, Curze, etc.

>>55389605
>tank moves through dudes
>if dudes can get out of the way, they get out of the way
>one model can opt to make a heroic last stand and try to blow up the tank before he gets splatted

>HOWEVER, if the dudes are surrounded on all sides by enemy models, they get crunched by the tank (can't move within 1" of enemy models, can't move through them).

Splat!

>>55389605

You need to start the turn with a squad near the target, preferably fast, and a tank. A Rhino will be fine.
Surround most of the squad with your unit as shown in >>55389485 . Make sure that you leave a window big enough to drive the Rhino through. Ideally place it so that the model at the opposite end of the 'window' is a worthless peon, because that model is going to survive. Marked 'X' in the diagram.
Tank Shock the Rhino through the squad such that it is placed over every model, except peon at the end. All models must now be moved out of the way.
However, they cannot move forwards or sideways because the unit blocks them. They cannot move backwards because the Rhino is long and they break coherency with Peon X.
As per the 'Crunch' rule, they are therefore removed from play with no saves allowed.

Recon Company is great because the combo of Scout and Infiltrate allows you to deploy your tonks within range and angle of almost anywhere on the board, and can only be blocked if your opponent is expecting you to do it. You can therefore crush 90% of his deathstar, Primarch/Tribune included, at the top of Turn 1 almost without a counter.

Note that in Recon Company you will need to commit 2 units to do so; 1 to bail out and surround the target, and the other to remain embarked in their Rhino. You cannot Shock and Disembark in the same turn.

> Note: This action is extremely cunty and will guarantee you never playing this person again. It will also totally fuck up their deathstar beyond repair and is totally within RaW.

>>55388399
Never.

>>55389687
Yeah, but using CSM rules doesn't change the aesthetics and gives you more of the options legions have.

>>55389706
>>55389726
Hey, that's pretty neat. I gotta try that sometime.

Tanks guys!

>>55389706
The idea of dudes running out of a tank to surround a unit and keep them from running away as their transport slowly rolls over the enemy is hilarious.

>>55388053
>why the Night Lords are such jobbing idiots
We've covered this already. They recruit exclusively from criminal degenerates and enforce no discipline or order beyond might makes right. The legion is completely fucked on a systemic level.

>>55389726
I'm amazed more people don't do tank shocks. People are always so shocked and horrified when I use a cheap rhino to drive off one of their big fancy units, even better when they attempt death and glory.
>Preator death start is getting near a tac blob of mine
>I tank shock him so I can get a bit more distance
>He decides to death or glory
>With his praetor for some reason
>Praetor scores a weapon destroyed result
>Gets ran the fuck over
I'm waiting for the day some retard had a primarch try and death or glory against me and I just run over Angron like a deaf child playing in the street.

Its even better with Maru Skara or other methods of outflanking vehicles. An enemy unit is in position to charge one of my squads, a tank come out of nowhere, drives them off, and parks in front of the squad it just saved.

If Predators were moved to Fast Attack (or some variants of them, like the flamer and autocannon turreted ones), would they get more love?

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When the fuck is Valdor getting released?

>>55390481
Soon™

>>55390481

Unironically, before Dorn and Alpharius.

>>55389687
>Detestable traitors
>I love constantly getting the worst jobs and being looked down on with contempt
This is a very wagecuck view of the world.

Is games workshop not selling stuff anymore, besides the boxes?

>>55390806
They are still selling everything to my knowledge. Their website still lists mk IV, mk III, tartaros, cataphractii, and the contemptor dreadnought as being for sale.

>>55390806
If you can't find the complete boxes, you can still get good prices for individual squad sprues on eBay. US$25 for an Mk III/IV squad or Sisters of Silence squad, $35 for a Terminator or Custodes squad, $30 for a Contemptor, <$10 for the characters.

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I can't make a decision.
I'm not super fond of 8th, even as someone who barely knew 7th, and I'm interested in HH.

>Word bearers are cool demon summoner guys, Gal Vorbak look amazing
>Sons of Horus are great because Horus is awesome and their paint schemes are nice
>Ultramarines are way better than 40k, I can have the seperatist space Romans I wanted
>EC look nice as well, even if they require more skill than I have
>Alpha Legion
>Mechachicum have cool models and are way more expanded than 40k
>Imperial Fists have Templar brethren, which are nice as well
>Thousand Sons have an aesthetic I love
I just can't pick.
Trying to pick as much for aesthetic and looks as rules, since they're likely to change in playstyle if the core rules change.

Speaking of, did FW ever actually say why they're sticking with 7th?

>>55390941

The first decision is also the hardest. Only thing I would say is that you shouldn't base it on a particular army template. Any Legion can play any theatre of war. So don't feel you can't play White Scars just because you don't want Bikes, for instance.
There is no easy way to make this decision. For me, I based it on a number of factors:
> The 'soul' of a Legion. Do I want my boys to be tacticool space operators, or heavy metal skullface attrition monsters. Do I think Space Marines are a rare resource to be applied surgically, or an unstoppable juggernaut to be swept through enemy ranks.
> Which Primarch's do I 'agree' with in terms of their thoughts, reasons for loyalty/betrayal and general coolness. Which Primarch has rules that I actually want to play on a regular basis.
> Which Legions offer the coolest toys in terms of special equipment, unique units or just radically changing up the playstyle?
> Which Legions can be retooled and repurposed into multiple different builds so that I never get bored.
> Which Legion can you make the best backstory for and make a Legion of yoordudes. Which books can you stomach from BL.

It has taken me literally years to decide that I want Raven Guard, but the decision has stuck and now here I am, happy with my choice.
Even that said there are 3 other Legions that I would happily play as alternatives and may pick up as Allies/opponents for recruitment games.


7th vs 8th, both have their flaws. Most of the obscenity linked to 7th was the result of Formations and Eldar, neither of which exist here. Vehicle rules are all kinds of fucked in both systems.
I prefer 7th simply because I am more familiar with its flaws and trust FW to errata their own set than to start with a fresh new one.

>>55390941
I personally don't find EC too hard to paint as long as you have a steady hand for the details. Purple is an easier colour to paint than say white, light grey, or yellow IMO.

I also like Mechanicum even if I don't play it, Ordo Reductor is a cool concept and myrmidons look like fun units.

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I finally have the time and money needed to complete my Night Lords.

Can anyone think of some good trophies and other decorations I could use?
Skulls and bones and chains and hooks and flaps of skin are all well and good, and I will be using them, but I'm trying to come up with some dark, almost disturbing stuff to make 'em stand out more.

For example, once I get some more practice with Greenstuff I plan on sculpting a little teddy bear to hang from a sergeant's belt.
Or maybe a set of two similarly sized skulls, one or two skulls which are much smaller, and then a canine skull, representing a full nuclear family.

The theme I'm going for is simply to play up the edginess of the Night Lords. I've already modeled several guys to have blades on their elbows, knees, and vampraces, both to foreshadow the later spikes and to make them literally be edgy.
I'm callin' them the Cult of Blades, and their praetor (using the Astorath the Grimm model with one of the old, slightly curved Chaos Raptor jet packs and a fuckhuge sword) is called The Edge Lord.

Oh, and where can I find a supply of 28mm alien/xeno skulls? I found one set that had ork, tyranid, and eldar-looking skulls, but I can't seem to find anything more exotic. Chains/hooks sized for marines would also be appreciated.

Anyway, looking for ideas.
Thanks.

>>55390941
>Speaking of, did FW ever actually say why they're sticking with 7th?
Not really. We know Alan Bligh intended to rewrite 30k for 8th, but we don't know how familiar he was with the 8th ed rules when he said that. Then he succumbed to cancer and the rest of the FW team was apparently less enthusiastic about (or capable of) writing new rules. I suspect it started out as, "Let's stick with 7th to buy ourselves time," but they've convinced themselves that they're better off keeping it for a while.

Choosing is indeed hard. The good thing about Thousand Sons is that a lot of their models are new, and their range is pretty complete. They do look great. They're cheesy if you play the Court of the Crimson King rite of war (Sekhmets as troops - they're undercosted, along with Magnus) but the rest of the legion is fine. Their psychic-heavy nature means you have more rules to think about than most players, and you have to revise your plan every battle based on which powers you roll. This legion really wants to be painted with an airbrush.

Word Bearers are best with the Last of the Serrated Sun rite of war. Only problem with them is that your best unit (Gal Vorbak) aren't scoring and that can be difficult to play. They'll be more fun once daemons are formally added to the game (when Book 8 comes out in Dec 2018).

Sons of Horus look great, do very well with veterans. Currently very powerful and green is one of the more forgiving colors to paint (so is UM blue).

Ultramarines are better than in 40k, but they don't look all that different and you'd miss out on the Siege of Terra.

Emperor's Children are either played as a fast finesse army (Maru Skara) or with proto-Noise Marines (IIIrd Company Elite) which are nearly the opposite. They'll probably be completely different by the time we get to Terra - dunno if that's good or bad for people playing them.

>>55391293
>Purple is an easier colour to paint than say white, light grey, or yellow IMO.
All the cool colors are easy to paint compared to the warm colors (namely red and yellow), black, and white. Black sounds easy, but it's only easy to paint to a basic standard.

The only real tricky thing with purple is that it ranges from cool (bluish) to warm (reddish) and they can clash if you highlight or shade with very different purples. Though some people do it on purpose: shade with dark blue, higlight with magenta. There's a fine line between it working or looking cartoonish.

Imagine if Titan Legions and Forge Worlds will get their own unique Traits and RoWs.

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>>55391462

> People think painting black is easy

>>55391480
Why would titan legions or forge worlds get rites of war? They don't have master of the legion rules and none of the mechanicum armies use rites of war. Now I could see them having access to special rules akin to legiones astartes rules but I highly doubt they would get rites of war or even an equivalent.

>>55391515
I was playing in the bright, primary-color world of 2nd edition when 3rd came out and the new face of the Astartes were the Black Templars. Everyone assumed they were easy to paint, so suddenly there were black-primed armies with crudely-painted white shoulder pads all over the place. Highlighting by drybrushing was still common back then, and it looked pretty chalky because there was more contrast between the highlight and base color than usual.

(To be fair, Legion of the Damned came out in 2nd so black wasn't entirely new, and Ulthwé had been around for a while too. But they didn't pick up as many brand new players.)

>>55391341
You can't go wrong with flesh bits, flesh loincloths or cloaks.

GW released a fuckload of skulls, from normal to xenos.

>>55391341
For chains, look at military modeling sources or model train shops. There might be some designed for Bolt Action, otherwise look at 1/72 to 1/48 (maaaybe 1/35 but they could be too thick). Not sure what the equivalent train scales would be. Wyrd (Malifaux) might have some accessories in their basing kits. Not familiar with skulls, sorry.

Sounds like an amusing army.

>>55391515
I like those white lines. Are they scratch effects? They look almost runic.

>>55391737
They look like they might've been done with a pen.

CAPTCHA: cocks president

>>55391723
Hmm, that's actually a great idea. For some reason I never think about train or real world military modeling, but they're sure to have a lot of good bits to use.
>>55391711
>flesh bits, flesh loincloths or cloaks
Fuck yeah. All of my apothecaries are basically going to be Fabius Bile (I've always loved his cloak-of-flayed-faces)

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>>55391737
http://figurementors.com/painting-black-power-armour-by-giovanni-di-lena

>>55388533
And with the points requirement to field that Tribune you're playing at ~2500 points. A Custodes army is going to get stomped before that Tribune even gets close to killing a Primarch.

Anyone have some example space wolves lists?
Kind of new to the game and I just want to RIP AND TEAR. Going off the burning of prospero box for now.

>>55391972
Thanks!

>>55391985
Honestly looking at points SoS are leagues better than custodes.
>S4 T3 3+ models armed with two handed power swords that are AP 2 on hit rolls of 5 or 6 and with precision strikes (so any precision hit is AP 2)
>15 points per model

>Same unit but troops, loses one attack and precision strike, and gains preferred enemy against a specific unit

>Paragon Blade WS 5 model for 95 points

>150 point EW instant death slinging special character

>Nearly army wide fearless

>Have a well armed fast transport that is hard to kill for 125 points

>Fuck with psykers (looking at Magnus' psychic terminator bullshit)

While fielding an entire army of them would be difficult they make excellent assassins especially against psychic bullshit. Even outside of psychic bullshit AP 2 and precision strikes is an excellent combination especially for such a cheap unit. Overall they are probably some of the best allies in the game because they fill a fairly niche role that is hard to fill elsewhere and are pretty cheap.

Take Jenetia Krole, 10 Oblivion Knights upgraded to WS 5, an acquisitor, and a naked prosecutor cadre. You have a cheap unit to hide on an objective and an assassin unit of 10 WS 5 2 attack strength 4 AP 3 models that have precision strikes and are AP 2 on hit and wound rolls of 2 led by an eternal warrior WS 6, I 5, 3 wound, eternal warrior model who has duellist's edge (in duels hitting before anyone besides EC and custodes barring specific rites of war or special characters and does murderous strikes on a 5 or 6. Furthermore the entire allied detachment is fearless and can be given infiltrate, stealth, crusader, or +1 to combat resolution.

>>55392593
I dunno. Custodes have access to Deep Strike, mess with the opponents' Deep Strike, and are survivable. Sisters with Swords have a great, points-efficient transport, but are easy to kill once they get out. And they have to get close in for their anti-psychic powers to work. I'm not that intimidated.

>>55391341
Ask other players about swapping extra bits. A friend has a 'show only' Blood Angel with an Eldar blade that has gotten stuck in his armor. The figure is 'combat used' and gouged in several places, even missing a glove. Honestly, the paint job is only average, but the theme is solid.

>>55390259
The first time someone did it to me was amazing. But I've rarely had the chance to return the favor.

>>55392870
If you're running heavy psykers or Chaos SoS is better than Custodes, but you're still paying a premium for units that are relatively squishy outside of their very specific role.

>>55393184
I meant against psykers.

>>55392870
>Custodes have access to Deep Strike
Sisters have an assault transport which offers more versatility since you can protect them until the turn they assault as opposed to deepstrikers who arrive and then spend a turn getting shot at before they can assault. Besides that the potential targets for deepstrikers can either strike them first (lots of legions get significant bonuses for charging) or retreat to a safer position.
>Sisters with Swords have a great, points-efficient transport, but are easy to kill once they get out.
3+ save, access to army wide stealth, oblivion knights get invul saves.>And they have to get close in for their anti-psychic powers to work.
No hard when you have fast skimmer assault transports.

Custodes are shit allies because they are expensive and offer no concise role. Sisters are cheap and can fulfill very specific roles, they can move in quickly, kill their target, and after that anything left is a bonus. Using my SoS counter-death star their goal is to kill or cripple enemy death stars, primarily by decapitating any non EW commander (including mechanicum with high toughness or the vast majority of marine characters.

>>55393246
>>55392870
The entire allies detachment I mentioned costs just 510 points and has army wide fearless and stealth. Stick Krole and her oblivion knights in the transport and put it as far forwards as you can. Vehicle moves 6 inches, unit disembarks, moves 6 inches, and charges 2d6 inches giving a total reach of up to 24" on turn 1 (average of 19"), alternatively you can move flat out turn 1, move turn 2, exit and move the unit, and then assault giving it the ability to reach up to anything 36" away. If an opponent's death star isn't within 36" of your deployment zone by turn 2 than just use them to mulch lesser troops which they are good at since WS 5 and AP 3/2 attacks.

In the actual assault phase Krole gets 5 attacks on the charge (although unlike some characters she doesn't need the charge even for +1 initiative) and 1/3rd of them (so 1 or 2 on average will be instant death), with an Iron Halo a character has a 50% chance of dying to each instant death attack. Furthermore Krole's entourage has precision strikes so them with their cumulative 30 attacks on the charge are scoring 15 hits (10 of them are AP 2 of which 5 or precision hits). Even if the target character survives turn 1 of the assault your squad is fearless meaning they will likely be fighting a second round of combat giving yet more chances for you to cut them down with your ID murder whore and her band of assassin sluts.

Or you could spend 250+ points on your HQ alone, teleport next to a unit, spend a turn getting shot at and have a rhino force your fancy special character to run away from his target before it parks itself between you and your target.

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Working on my main Sisters of Silence HQ. Until Krole gets a model this will be my stand-in.

>>55393027
I should run a mechanized tac heavy list.
>6 10 man tac squads in rhinos
>Seekers and vets in rhinos
>A bunch of sicarans and predators
>Just tank shock all day everyday until all enemy units have been run over or failed a tank shock test

>>55390259
Because most people dismiss the game as simple when it actually does have some modicum of depth and complexity.

A well placed tank shock can actually remove large swathes of models from the game outright.

>>55393321
How is she size-wise compared to regular Sisters?

>>55393463
Probably the same size as Alpharius is supposed to be.
Suspiciously so.

>>55393454
I don't agree. Chess is shit once they got rid of formations and USRs. You just advance towards the enemy. What's so strategic about that?

>>55393321
>"Come with me if you want to live."
>"I think I already died and went to heaven."

>>55393485
Damn. I've been looking for a base model for my SoS HQ, but having her be that big would bother me.
I guess I'll have to shell out for a Veridyan model after all.

>>55393321
I am tempted to use SoS and SoB to field an Imperial Militia dark age survivors and gene-modded army. Maybe fluff it as some sort of amazon world where men were second class citizens whose warriors looked down on the astartes until some legion pushed their shit in and they were forced to swear loyalty to the Imperium. Used the Horus Heresy to throw off the yoke of the emperor and raided other worlds until they got their shit pushed in again during the Scouring.

>>55393523
You could always just do a bit of extra conversion work on a vigilator.

>>55393526
Don't forget some Necromunda Eschers for Levies.

>>55393491
>only advances
>never moves backwards or sideways to setup future charges

They gave your bishop and queen vector dancer for a reason, idiot!

>>55388350
Honestly I'm surprised sci-fi settings in general don't use weaponized asteroids/planetoids/etc. Once you master FTL manipulating gravity enough to redirect them into enemy targets would be a piece of cake.

>>55393389
Not in 30k. You'll get one shotted all day long.

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>>55393533
>>55393523
>>55393485
>>55393463
She's not that big.

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>>55393526
They're a little weird next to each other.

>>55390481
according to horus heresy weekender 2017, early 2018

>>55393578
We've done energy calculations in past threads. Redirecting a moon large enough to be round would require enough energy to blanket the surface in nuclear explosions, which is far quicker. It also doesn't require mastering gravity, which you don't necessarily get just because you've figured out FTL travel (especially when that FTL involves dropping into a daemonic realm of dreams).

>>55393587
Yeah her base gives her some height but she's pretty normally sized compared to the rest.

I like your mix of parts. Celestine and the new Blackweave model if I'm not mistaken.

>>55393548
Could also convert bullgryn to act as power armoured ogryn.

>>55393587
Alpharius is supposed to be barely taller than a normal marine... and normal marines are shorter than Sisters of Silence. They're too big, and that's why that Stormcast lady looks fine. (She does fit in better than I expected.)

>>55393587
Indeed. That's not too bad.
Do you ind if I steal your idea and make a similar model?

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>>55393591

It's the base. SoS are bigger, but not as much as that image makes you think. Same with Necromunda Eshers.

>>55393653
Go for it! It's a blend of Cesltine's arms and legs, Blackweave's torso and head, plus her fur. Other pieces tossed in come from Blood Angels and Sternguard.

>>55393630
Yeah, the models are pretty tall but have awesome proportions. I just wanted her to match them since they'll be running along Custodes more often than not.

>>55393584
Target saturation, an enemy unit can only kill one unit a turn (ignoring split fire and the like). Just the minimum tac squads with transports constitutes a combined 12 units at a cost of 990 points total. Throw in some mechanized vets and seekers and you are probably looking at another 10 or 12 units to kill. Good luck killing 12 rhinos and 120 marines over the course of a game, especially when everything on my side is scoring.

THOUSAND SONS WW@

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So who should write that fateful duel?

The correct answer is Abnett, of course, but your wrong answers may be interesting.

>>55394607
McNeil he is good with bolter porn

Abnett is better with narratives

You just asked about the fight. So it's gotta be McNeil

>>55394607
ADB. I want to know how Drach'nyen gives the Emeperor the edge he needs to defeat Horus because Abaddon is the fated one to kill the Emperor and rule the Dark Imperium.

>>55393246
Dont forget, the sisters transport can deep strike, and they can infiltrate units with nucio-voxes on foot. So custodes don't even have thar overy them

>>55394670
>Wanting ADB to write anything
Spotted the Carnac.

Anyways it should be McNeil, he's a bit better at battles than Abnett.

So on the topic of SoS being used as Imperial Militia in power armour, I was thinking of my list. My idea for the core of my army when completed is approximately this.
>76 Grenadiers (SoS) in 2 squads of 18 and 4 squads of 10
>4 Land Raiders
>2 Discipline Masters
>Force Commander

Since this will take a while to finish and due to extremely low points costs per model I would like to field them as blackshields (I am planning on the +1S/I and +1 to armour save provences so they are pretty much -1 T and WS marines) until I have enough models to field a workable army. Which wrought by war makes the most sense for a bunch of power armoured amazons raiding the Imperium? I would think outlanders.

>>55395826

Wow, bravo anon.

>>55394607
Anybody other than ASB so I can exalt in his barely-restrained anger at being cucked from a chance to write the ultimate chaoswank.

>>55393591
I wonder how skit Vanguard heads would look on SoS.

>>55391541
Cybernetica Cohort and Reductor War Covenant are basically already Rites of War in all but name. OR even has a custom Force Org in case you want a Rite of War on your Rite of War.
A couple more of those wouldn't go too amiss, although I'd prefer them be for subcults like the Prefecture Magisterium or the Baskilion Marine troops or the Biologis or something rather than individual Forge Worlds.

>>55390659

>Salamanders were literally given the same exact jobs as the IW, worse arguably since their specific specialty was Death World combat
>never once bitched or complained to anyone about it

Was was Peturabo such a little bitch? Why was his legion filled with so many bitches?

>>55394607
I'm hoping for a joke version where C.S. Goto gets to write the whole battle.

But on a more serious note, Mcneill, ADB or Guy Haley

>>55397004
>Salamanders were literally given the same exact jobs as the IW
Factually incorrect. The Iron Warriors got the worst end of the stick of all the legions. They were assigned jobs that the other legions couldn't or wouldn't do. It was the IVth not the XVIII who had to slog through mud and blood for years at a time. Name one thing the Salamanders fought that was as physically and psychologically taxing as the Hrud. Even if their specialties were broadly similar (which they only sort of were) the intensity was entirely different.

Perturabo was still a bitch though. I liked the idea that he was such a cunt because due to being broken by PTSD after 200 years of horror but the decimation proved he was always a harsh twat.

>>55393587
4u

I stopped reading HH novels after the twentieth one. Are any past that any good? Do they ever advance the plot?

>>55397377
Some are, some do

>>55394607
I like McNeil but he can be really hit and miss.

>>55397377
Betrayer is a contender for the best HH novel. Scars and The Path of Heaven are also good.

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So, my enthusiasm for 8th is slowly dying, but I am the sole minority in my group, and there's still no HH to be had. Might as well keep building for HH I guess and have them transfer over. However, I have no idea how to support my core, and could use some help.

Tldr: I'm Night Lords, I'm working out of 2 Calth, and 1 BoP, and I have an bunch of bits for other things. I was planning on Terror Assault. Is there any reason not to go with 3 squads of 10 Volkite, or can I get away with 2 squads of 5? I have the bits regardless. Beyond that, I have enough backpacks + arms for a 20man unit of assmarines. I was also planning on Night Raptors with glaives using the CSM raptor kit (pic related). It might be a bit chaos-y, but whatever because that's what I have and I think they look neat.

Any help in the right direction? I feel like armor and air might be a problem, but that's a general problem for NL anyway.

>>55397111
The Dark Angels lost 50 000 marines fighting the Hrud too but didn't turn traitor.

>>55397736
I remember you.

5 man squads are really weak, since they only got a 3+ save. Don't forget that NL need to bully their enemy to get bonuses, so I'd recommend a 10 man squad.

Some people are going to be triggered by your CSM raptors, but I think it's fine. Maybe they got corrupted by the call of chaos, while the rest of the army didn't. Daemons and chaos becomes more prevalent later into the Heresy, even if the HH NL were never about that stuff, some still fell for it maybe.

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>>55393587
Female primarchs when?

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>>55397004
DG got worst jobs than the Salalalamanders, pls.

>>55397111
Pert never treated his men like men, only as tools and coin to spend.

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>>55398323

Best post-Primarch color scheme coming through. Every other legion's color scheme got worse, only WE got better (after also getting worse from War Hounds -> WE)

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Working on a Custodes Land Raider.

Any thoughts on what to add?

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>>55398290
That depends. Do you want these?

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>>55398801
Or these?

>>55398723
You can never have enough eagles and bling, but at some point you gotta stop.

To be a picky asshole, isn't it a big weird to have DA Watchers in the dark on a Custard tank? They could be passed off as generic angels of death however.

>>55398268
Night Lords are jobbers that spend their time to spook human civilians when they're augmented killing machines, the Chaos aesthetic fits them.

>>55398216
Were the Hrud involved in the Xangdan Genocides?
That was a one off occurance, Iron Warriors took massive losses consistantly to get the job done because they were thrown into such shit-fests.

>>55392176
>1 HQ for every thousand points
>kitted grey slayer blobs for troops
>other things to flavour
Think of HH Space Wolves as 40k orks, they favour horde list as their rules and RoWs buff infantry and assaults. Their named HQs are very good as are their unique units (beside Varagyr terminators).

>>55398924
Perhaps the Iron Warriors wouldn't have taken such casualties if they weren't fucking idiots that never progressed beyond World War 1 tactics. Perturabo should have stopped being a bitch and been more like Guilliman or Ferrus Manus.

>>55399041
>Perhaps the Iron Warriors wouldn't have taken such casualties if they weren't fucking idiots that never progressed beyond World War 1 tactics.
Iron Warriors were actually very tactically competent, the massive casualties came from a refusal to give up or retreat. Rather than lose a fortress or give up a position they would just fight until the last man because failure wasn't an option. They didn't just artillery things and march into machine guns.

>>55399076
PS. I still think this is retarded but them being bad at tactics isn't why they suffered massive casualties.

>>55399041
You make that criticism where hitting things with swords, attaching bayonets, and actual trench networks and trench fighting are common things.

>>55398268
>I remember you
Is.. Is that a bad thing? Why do I get the feeling that's a bad thing? I haven't posted here in ages.

Anyway, Night Raptors are basically all off the deep end anyway, right? Maybe I'll try to hide the chaos with blood or fleshy bits or something idk. Who cares at this point? They have the proper weapons and they're magnetized.

Alright, 10man squads it is, and I'm assuming its best to give them the Chainsword, too?

>>55399267
>Is that a bad thing
I wouldn't worry, this place has few posters so the regulars and interesting people stand out.

>>55399076
>>55399099
Space Marines were not made to be used for attrition based warfare, that's for the Imperial Army. Rather. they are a highly effective strike force but sadly Iron Warriors have autism and need to suffer exactly 70% casualty rates in every battle.

>>55400028
To be fair that's not entirely Perturabo's fault he was stuck with one of the shittiest legions and unlike Dorn's shitty legion wasn't tasked with making lego towers. Honestly the emperor fucked up by making the primarchs individuals resulting in certain legions and primarchs being objectively better than others and essentially making them pointless. Like Perturabo only being good at building fortifications but being worse than Dorn at building fortifications must be the shittiest existence possible. Honestly its a miracle Perturabo didn't kill himself in despair when he realized his father created him to be an objectively worse copy of Dorn.

>>55398559
>dude red cause blood lmao
Red and white World Eaters are absolutely trash tier. The bright heroic scheme with the blue is a great canvas for adding blood effects and gore.

>>55398559
>Unironically liking candy cane men

>>55398723
The power of flight

>>55402987
Meaning?

I'm not even that anon and I don't follow

>>55403418
G R A V R H I N O S

We need grav-titans.

>>55403599
>Not preferring winged titans

>>55403418
In fluff from ancient days, custodes had floaty rhinos.

>>55403617
>not going a step beyond and creating a 19 part titan that requires the primarchs and big E

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>>55403627
>>55403475
Land Raider owner here.

The fact that Sisters or Custodes can't use Rhinos is so fucking baffling to me.

Fuck the 40k versions gimme Land Raiders and Rhinos for my force too.

Shit in the old art this is basically an Amored Land Raider Proteus. Almost used one but the MKIIB LR is a touch more elegant to use.

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>>55403599
There you go
Oh, this still lives?

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>>55400028
Space Marines were made to do whatever the Imperial Army couldn't. If the Imperial Army, Fleet, Space Wolves and White Scars weren't able to destroy Ork Spaceforts, who do you think they called?
The Comrades in Arms, that's who.

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>>55403861
In a perfect world, FW is working on their own versions. Rhinos for Sisters and Proteus with alternative sponsons and bolt cannons for Custodes.

Man can dream...

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So can Corvus Corax take cameleoline? He is a raven guard IC without a jump pack.

>>55403861
I’m tempted to disagree – I like that they’re totally unique and feel like forces that were fully established before Mars was brought into the fold. I picture pre-Unification Terra as having a large number of relatively crude manufacturing facilities making things more akin or ork trucks, and the opposite. Things like the Terawatt Clan building Eldar-like skimmers in very small quantities. Then the Treaty of Olympia gave Emps access to mass-produced vehicles and weapons of reasonable (but not amazing) quality, including Rhinos and Land Raiders.

On the other hand, the Militia provenance that gives access to Land Raiders and Rhinos suggests that Old Terra should have had them, too, because they weren’t Mechanicum exclusives. But then they’d be present in the Unification Wars and that’s just not as much fun, imo.

>>55397527
Betrayer was great. So was The First Heretic. I want more Lorgar novels like those two.

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>>55398360
>No one understands me

>>55404396
special characters cant take extra gear.

>>55404682
>fully established before Mars was brought into the fold

Yet they got Cataphractii suits and Contemptor dreads, which came later into the Crusade and Mechanicum had their hands in making both. It'd make more sense for Custodes to adopt new technology, but only stuff that was made on Terra, thus keeping their supply lines secured and under the Emperor's direct control.

>I like that they’re totally unique

If only they'd be more original in design, not just 4 sizes of twin-engine flying vehicle and 4 sizes of Custodian.

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>>55403475
Grav-rhino, you say?

>>55397377
I'm probably missing a few

Books that covered pre-established events
>Fear to Tread
>The Crimson Fist (In Shadows of Treachery)
>Master of Mankind
>Tallarn

Books worth reading, in general
>Shadows of Treachery
>Betrayer
>Scars
>The Path of Heaven
>Praetorian of Dorn
>The Master of Mankind
>Tallarn

Speaking of, has anyone ripped The Last Son of Prospero? I want to read it but I also prefer buying short stories in bundles, and to my knowledge it hasn't been bundled yet.

>>55394607
BL burns down and all the authors die under mysterious circumstances so we stick with Bill King.

>>55398825
That LR has fewer eagles on it then most Custards, I don't know what you mean.

>>55405365
I have a hard time recommending Fear to Tread, but I guess it did do some things well. The Blood Angels characters were just so bland.

The others you listed were all worth reading. I'd add Angel Exterminatus too.

>>55403636
>primarchs and big E
>19 parts
I'm counting 20.

>>55405519
The painful truth is that James Swallow just isn't a very good writer. Eisenstein was above average, and I understand that his various Garros were good, but Nemesis was a textbook 'why does this exist' and Fear To Tread was at best average, and only really looked good because it was competant and not as utterly abysmal like his 40k BA bilge.

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>>55404731

>>55403636
With their powers combined...

No, Ferrus, you can't form the head.

>>55405519
Agreed, its mediocre at best, and all the present Blood Angels are basically the same person except for Amit. Only on there because Signus was kind of a big thing.

>>55405481
I don;t know if you've read King's Siege of Terra stuff lately but it is not good.

>>55405607
>Signus was kind of a big thing
Was it really though? The BA get attacked by loads of daemons and some of them go berserk. It would be considered total filler if it wasn't the only Blood Angels book.

>>55405527
18 primarchs and one Emperor.

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Working on the guns for the black solars from yesterday. Which do you think would go best? (The two pure white ones are the same recipe)

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Any tips how can I add him as HQ in Battlescribe?

>>55405800
I guess the big deals are that it's the first time Imperial forces meet daemons en masse and realize what they are (not just xenos), in contradiction to the Imperial Truth. It also introduces Ka'Bandha, who will be back for the Siege of Terra. And it shows that Horus and the Word Bearers are working in parallel but exactly with each other.

>>55405800
Well, it was established canon beforehand I believe. The only list it really deserves to be on is one of pre-established events in the heresy, not ones invented by the novels. Stuff like, Calth, Tallarn, etc.

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>>55397377
WH babby here looking to delve deep into the lore and maybe read good books along the way. Can anyone explain this heresy from the wiki page?

>>55406075
45 main books and a lot of SS and audios.

>>55406075
You'll need a really high-res version for it to mean anything. The horizontal axis is chronology. Things rowed vertically happen at roughly the same time.

Basically its a flow chart. You choose your starting point, then follow the lines right if you want to read about that particular story thread, or you just read roughly left-to-right if you want a wide picture of how things develop.

>>55406075
Most people don't read every story about every legion. Just the novels acknowledged to be good and all the stories (including short stories and novellas) for their favorite legion. There's a lot of overlap, and that flowchart helps you figure out what ties into what.

For example, at the beginning of Vengeful Spirit stuff happens involving characters whose backstories are in Feat of Iron and Scars, and who do things that lead up to the events in Vengeful Spirit in the Grey Talon audiobook and the Little Horus short story. There's an entire story arc in that book that involves characters from the first four novels, the Garro books, and a couple of short stories.

If you didn't read those, some of those characters will just be random good or bad guys, which is normally fine (Vengeful Spirit takes it too far, especially with that last arc).

>>55405886
>18 primarchs

19, anon, 19.

>>55406125
i was referring specifically to the 9000x11000 .jpg of white space and solid colors

>>55406595
Well, we don't want a reading order for ants now do we?

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>>55406534
You seem to be suggesting that one Legion might have two Primarchs, Brother. Spreading slander like that is grounds for mandatory re-education.

>>55406656
it finally loaded and it's perfectly legible at 25% zoom

>>55403861
The reason they don't is twofold. First, to show how superior their technology is compared so something as primitive as a Rhino or a Land Raider. Secondly, to sell new models.

Compare a Rhino to a Coronus and it's like a Blackpowder Musket to a Bolter.

>>55407073
Man, I love it. Non-Marines can't have Marine stuff, because they're the best, the Emperor's Angels of Death, the cream of the crop, and they get only the best. But when it's the Custodes, then Marine equipment is pleb tier shit that they wouldn't get caught dead in.

Wonder why the bother with cataphractii and contemptors...

>>55407110
Because their cataphractii and contemptors are better than the Marine ones in every way. The Marine ones are like a Sherman Tank while the Custodians have M1 Abrams. Sure they're roughly the same thing and function just fine, but the Marine ones are years down the evolutionary ladder.

>>55407110
Custodes don't use Cataphractii, they have Aquilon.
And their contemptors are much better than SM one, they even have normal hands to grab stuff.

>>55407149
>Because their cataphractii and contemptors are better than the Marine ones in every way.

Yet they can't have Rhinos and Land Raiders equally better...

If you look at >>55403861, you can see that those are nor regular LR lascannons. Clearly they got some fucking Space Prussian majicks going on.

>>55407110
As it turns out, militia can take power armor, Land Raiders, and Rhinos! (Using the Survivors of the Dark Age and Advanced Weapons provenances, IIRC.) It's only after the Traitors sack Anvilus, shortly before reaching Terra, that Land Raiders get restricted to the Astartes for the rest of time.

Space Marines weren't the cream of the crop while there were 10,000 Custodes running around. The War in the Webway took them down below 1,000 members, and if they were all hand-crafted by the Emperor then I'd assume there are no new ones. Not sure what their new 40k fluff says but there should be even fewer after the Siege of Terra. Something must happen to the Terawatt clan during the Siege, so no more fancy skimmers for the Custodes. After all that, the Astartes are left as the best the Imperium has to offer. But not until then.

>>55407175
>they have Aquilon
>"Its origins lie with the Cataphractii suits of the Space Marine Legions,but with far greater power capacity and customised neuro-fibre uplinks"
-Book 7, pg. 242

>>55407199
Well, GW made rules for Custodian Land Raiders. How superior are those to actual Marine ones? Not much at all. In fact they're pretty much the same.

>>55407214
>As it turns out, militia can take power armor, Land Raiders, and Rhinos!

Yes, a very special subsect of them who had all that stuff left over from the DAoT. Meanwhile the likes of Solar Auxilia, who are the top of the Army and second only to Space Marines, get to eat shit and drive around in a big tractor with guns.

>>55407249
So, why can't they have them in 30k?

>>55407287
Because in 30k LR is prety weak option for Custodes and doesn't work with their anti grav theme.
In 40k GW needed some budget transport to 1 kit army, so Custodes get normal SM land raidr with buffed stats.

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List question - how big do Outrider squads need to be to be effective in assaults? I currently have one big one (9-man + apothecary + praetor), along with a 5-man attack bike squad + apothecary + librarian. Instead of the 9-man bike squad and Predator I could take two 6-man squads but not sure they'll do enough.

White Scars, 2500pts, Chogorian Brotherhood

Praetor on bike: Paragon blade; melta bombs; digital lasers; iron halo; cyber-hawk 205

Librarian on bike: Mastery Level 2; artificer armour; force axe; melta bombs; combat shield 160

10 Veteran Space Marines w/ 2 x plasma gun; 8 x combi-plasma; melta bombs;
Vet. Sergeant (artificer armour; power glaive) 320
• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 45

2 Apothecaries on bike w/ power sword 150 (75 each)

9 Outriders: Sergeant (power glaive); 3×power wpn; melta bombs 375

6 Jetbike Sky Hunters, 2 w/volkite culverins 260

10 Tactical Support Marines w/ volkite chargers; chainswords;
Sergeant (artificer armour; power glaive; melta bombs) 225
• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted combi-volkite 45

5 Attack Bikes: 5×multi-melta; melta bombs 275

1 Javelin Attack Speeder: heavy bolter; twin-linked lascannon; 1x hunter-killer missile 70

5 Heavy Support Marines w/ missile launchers; flakk missiles 210
• Rhino: dozer blade 40

1 Predator: lascannon sponsons; dozer blade 120

>>55407287
Because exactly how would a Land Raider be better than a Coronus? What incentive would there be to take a Land Raider when there's a ton of far better options out there?

>>55407287
They used to be supplied by the Terawatt Clan, who did not build Land Raiders.

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>>55407245
Keyword origins.
This is not Cataphractii. Aquilon was based on it, but it's not Cataphractii It's fucking diferend pattern.
Cataphractii=Aquilon is same as Autogun=Boltgun

>>55407411
>take shitty pleb tier Legion Cataphractii
>make it better
>"It's a new pattern!"
>take shitty pleb tier Legion Land Raider
>make it better
>"Boo! Why would you use a shitty pleb tier Legion metal box?"

Also, I don't think bolters are based on autoguns.

>>55407718
It sounds like the Custodes didn't have any heavy armor (except for mortally wounded dudes) prior to the Aquilon-pattern stuff. Space Marines went out to explore the galaxy, got themselves into situations that Cataphractii was good for, and the Custodes decided to build something similar.

They didn't see Land Raiders and think, "Hmm, we should build something like that," because they already had the Coronus so the Land Raider brought very little new to the table.

Besides, their home base is the Imperial Palace. Traffic sucks getting in and out of there. Skimmers are the only way to go.

>>55406534
I forgot the Alpha shits, but hey, two for the price of one.

>>55407877
To be fair, lore points to them going to war with tech that's newer and better.

I can imagine they used LR's for a long while and then the Coronus and Caladius took over the role a bit better. During the Heresy one could easily assume they pulled other things out of closet and went "you know, this thing is still great" and decided gravity was rad again as it filled roles needed again.

One could argue that the Coronus and Land Raider have very different roles, and I would love to see a specialized version of the latter with perhaps options for other weapons. The Land Raider is a ground crawling fortress with even more guns and can take a better beating while dropping troops off an assault ramp and the Coronus is a flying designated gunboat that's incredibly versatile but only beats the other in that category.

I love them both insanely but can easily see them coexisting, especially if the Custodes Land Raider had other optional equipment.

>>55407877
Well, they stuck with shitty bolters instead of getting some Martian heat rays, so it's not like the Custodes went always with the best possible option.

>>55408312
Custodes bolters are better than volkite guns.
Also who need Martian heat rays when you have Terran rays of devastation.

>>55408224
>I can imagine they used LR's for a long while and then the Coronus and Caladius took over the role a bit better.
I get the feeling that they had the Coronus and Caladius from the start. Basically, the Emperor and his best friends maintained Dark Age of Technology tech better than most of the other Terran warlords. But they were expensive, and while it was possible to build enough for a force of 10,000, it was never going to be possible equip millions of Astartes that way.

>>55408312
And in my headcanon, they didn't like to switch over to stuff they weren't used to after centuries of fighting on Terra. Martian stuff would've been alien to them.

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>>55407384
If that was too dense, the list is:

2500pts White Scars

9 Outriders + Praetor + Apothecary (counts as troops)
5 Attack Bikes w/ MM + Librarian + Apothecary

6 Jetbikes w/ 2 Volkite Culverins

10 Veterans w/ Combi-Plasmas in Rhino
10 Tactical Support Marines w/ Volkite Chargers + CCW in Rhino
5 Heavy Support Marines w/ Missile Launchers +flakk in Rhino (considering Arcus instead)

1 Javelin
1 Predator w/ lascannon sponsons

Outriders and attack bikes get up close for some shooting then hit and run attacks.
Jetbikes fly around shooting at infantry
Vets take advantage of cyberhawk to reroll 1s to hit. Tactical Support goes after infantry. Missile dudes hang back.
Javelins and Predator take potshots at targets of opportunity. Might be a waste of points but I need a FA option before taking a HS.

>>55397377
Path of Heaven is a rare 10/10 for black library

doesnt really advance the plot but white scars are total bros in it

>>55408965
Sure it does. It gets them from A to B and don't forget that it came out before Master of Mankind, and it was the clearest explanation of the Webway Project we'd ever gotten.

>>55394607
I doubt it will be abnett, but it obviously should be for symbolic reasons alone.

We're also bound to get several versions of it.

ADB would probably do the best job of it, people are unconditionally mad at him

>>55408547
>they didn't like to switch over to stuff they weren't used to

No wonder the Emperor died, when his personal bodyguard picked their gear based on feels.

>>55407384
>how big do Outrider squads need to be to be effective in assaults?
Depends. I would probably only take a full sized squad with power weapons but it really depends on your potential targets. If you are just mopping up tac squads or nearly dead vets or terminators 6 guys with a cumulative 3 power weapons should do.

As for your list I feel it lacks staying power.
>32 toughness 5 wounds
>25 toughness 4 wounds
>A few light vehicles
Generally speaking I try to keep vehicles, especially easy to kill vehicles cheap, case and point your predator which costs 120 points for an AV 12 autocannon and pair of lascannons. I also find heavy support squads overcosted. Beyond that I would probably put my praetor in a bike or jetbike command squad rather than with some outriders since it allows his command squad to pack more punch. Overall my 100% pragmatic suggestions (which means ignore if you are doing these things for thematic reasons, aesthetic reasons, or personal preference.
>Remove artificer armour and power glaives on vet and tactical support sergeants if they get into CC with infantry you have made a mistake and should assume your unit will be raped regardless of your sort of melee sergeant
>multimeltas may be pretty useless on attack bikes depending on your meta. Assuming your meta doesn't use much armoured ceramite keep them, otherwise swap them for autocannons or something for shredding light vehicles and using meltabombs against heavy vehicles
>Heavy support squads are overcosted, replace with contemptor mortises or deredeos
>Drop lascannon sponsons they are unlikely to be worth their high price, there are better deals on lascannons in the legion list
>One lone land speeder is too easy to kill, either drop it or add more either in separate units or within the same squadron

>>55389687
My favorite part of HH was the special characters each legion had, as opposed to "Generic Chaos Lord"

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So I know alot of Black Library's books aren't liked much by HHG, but when it comes to picking a faction, what books are specific to each legion/faction? What books do I need to read to get the gist of each legion's feel and theme?

Mechanicum is the obvious one, I know to read that at some point already. I've also got the Thousand Sons Omnibus

>>55411203

They write shittily enough that you're going to get a better grasp from the black books, anon.

>>55411203
That's what the color's in that crazy flowchart indicate. Any Legion in mind? It's too long a list to go through all the stories...

>>55409332
That's helpful, thanks. I won't put Dreadnoughts in a White Scars list, but the Heavy Support guys are a few more points than an Arcus with skyfire missiles so I'll probably get one of those instead.

I have the BoP termies and they could go in a Phobos in exchange for the Librarian, an Apothecary, the Javelin, and the Predator. Or keep the first two and add a vet squad. I'll play around with some ideas.

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I've been out of the loop for a few months, is there anything new or is the general still in holding pattern?

>>55413121
It's honestly in Holding with people throwing ideas and such around.

>>55411203
The following benefitted the most from BL books:
Night Lords (Aaron Demski-Bowden's 40k trilogy)
Word Bearers (The First Heretic, The Purge)
World Eaters (Betrayer, a few short stories)
White Scars (Brotherhood of the Storm, Scars, The Path of Heaven, Restorer)
Thousand Sons (A Thousand Sons, Prospero Burns… the newer ones get mixed reviews)
Ultramarines (Know No Fear)
Imperial Fists (The Crimson Fist, Praetorian of Dorn)
Luna Wolves (original trilogy)
Imperial Army (Legion, Tallarn)

Good, but not universally loved:
Iron Warriors (Angel Exterminatus, Perturabo)
Emperor's Children (Fulgrim, but also featured in The Path of Heaven)
Alpha Legion (Legion, The Serpent Beneath, The Seventh Serpent, Praetorian of Dorn, Liar's Due)
Custodes/Sisters of Silence (The Master of Mankind)
Death Guard (Flight of the Eisenstein)
Some people like some of the Datk Angels books but there's very little consensus

I'd say the other legions didn't get anything better than you'd find in the FW black books, including the Blood Angels who don't even appear in one yet.

>>55413121
Angelus confirmed for Dec. 2018, FW will fill in some gaps in the meantime (units with rules but no models, legion-specific praetors and Rhino doors, things like that). They are trying to shore up their writing team. John French all but confirmed but they need at least one more rules writer.

HH rulebook at printers now.

Necromunda out in November, Adeptus Titanicus next year.

>>55413141
Ideas are still better than rampant shitposting, which it seemed to be turning into when I lost interest. I'll prolly float around for a while in that case.
>>55413182
So, nothing of real value for some time, aside from the potential for small surprises and relevant GW releases? Any word on another GW HH set? I've seen some wishful thinking/rumors, but that was about it.

>>55407199
no matter how many laser cannons you plug into a sherman, a abrams is still going to be better in most ways. considering that custodes CAN buy skimmers for 1000000000000000000000^4 space dollaros there's no reason for them to buy a used dinged up legion rhino and gold spray it for 50 space dollars.

>>55407261
SAUX russes are like joeys ratatta, in the top percentages of russes. with thicker armor (4HP) and a much better engine. (not heavy, the lightened "scout russ" can be fast.)

>>55408547
>>Martian stuff would've been alien to them.
>>Martian, Alien.
really anon.

>>55413263
>Any word on another GW HH set?
There is not one in the works so don't hold your breath. Hard to see it happening now that GW's going large.

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>>55413519
>there will never be a kit with plastic MKV

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>>55413519
Ah well. At least it'll give me time to finish the rest of my stuff.

>>55407214
The new fluff says that Custodes Veterans MAY be as MUCH as 1,000 years old. In other words, more shit fluff overwritten by master race codexes.

>>55413908
It's somewhat implied that a lot of Custodes that survived the Heresy exist in the current 40k timeline.

The newer ones are all at the bare minimum at least 1,000. I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that they're back to full strength or just about. I bet you in a year or two we're gonna have fluff as to what some of them have been doing for 10k years besides guarding the Palace.

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>>55388027

Rules question:
Say I want to play an army that has opposite loyalty to their Legion. Ie- loyal EC, traitor UM etc.
Can I just declare it, or do I need to play a Rite that allows it?
Mostly because Liberation Force is a shit version of allied Cults.

>>55414105
Nah. Just play what you want. As long as you're not taking characters that are the opposite of your force, I see no problem.

30k is a lot more "spirit of the game" than 40k and includes elements to play hour forces how you'd like.

>>55414105
>Mostly because Liberation Force is a shit version of allied Cults.
Army-wide Zealot for a turn plus a potential bonus to Slaying the Warlord is pretty significant. Especially when a lot of your units also get Furious Charge (mislabeled as Furious Assault) in their Legionrs Astartes rules.

>>55413338
Funny that they were able to polish the turds that were bolters, cataphractiis and contemptors, but there's no way of polishing a vehicle so important the Emperor himself had to decree who go to use it when supplies ran dry.

>>55413953
What I meant was, they haven't lost the ability to make more.

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>>55413263
>Any word on another GW HH set?
dead game m8, GW has abandoned 7th and all its shit

>>55415363
>Instead we treat all vehicles like monstrous creatures with a bajillion wounds
Yep 8th edition totally isn't pants on head retarded.

>>55415667
Yeah, its a good abstraction that makes everything work more smoothly
get with the times you salty gronard

>>55388087
I'd argue that that makes Curze a better character. He should be one of those characters who you know everything about through primary accounts. If you had a POV of him, it would just be pages full of incoherent babble mixed in with crazed desires. By the heresy, he was truly a broken shadow of who he once was.

Maybe if we had a full character novel from his time as Batman until his demise, we can understand him more. But I'd rather not have any books with him after.

>>55390941

1. FW does not have as much resources as GW. It has to juggle a lot of responsibilities. Pump out HH stuff, and Sigmar stuff, and GW forced it to do Imperial Armour. Trust me, Imperial Armour was a rush job.
Turning HH into 8e is simply not feasible for them.

2. Pick an army that appeals to you the most. Which army you just always think about - and screw the crunch, nerfs and buffs are always fluid. If you still can't decide, look at what your local community plays. Being one of 5 ultramarine HH players can be boring.

>>55398290

They are called primarchs. A big part of HH fluff that I feel is a massive philosophical undertone is that the Primarchs are all macho, authoritarian warlords. They're bad people who let pride and envy drive them to greater acts of violence. Except San and Vulcan, they're cool.

Same reason we shouldn't have a female James Bond, we shouldn't have a Matriarch. The themes HH explore are better done with primarchs.

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>>55388027
I am surprised it is alive. Nice filename, OP. Question: what sort of powers would Night Lord librarians have? I remember reading somewhere that they apparently "eat" Cruz's dreams or something of the like.

>>55417221
Telepathy to fuck with ones mind.

>>55388053
I wouldn't call them jobbers. Sure, their overall record sucks, but when they get rolling it's a literal bloodbath salted with copious amounts of terror. Except that one time where some creative NL wiped out a planet without leaving a drop of blood. BL's issue is that they don't have an author who consistently delivers good writing when it comes to Night Lords.

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>>55417273
Hallucinations and scaring people so much they attack their own allies and the like?

>>55417221
Traditionally, Night Lords dislike psychic stuff. Even Sevetar chose to suppress his psychic talent due to the stigma.
They're kind of like the Death Guard in that regard.

But I suppose >>55417273 is the best answer if you're going to do psychic stuff anyway.

Although that does remind me about that bit from the ADB Night Lords trilogy about the one marine who can sense emotions. The rest consider him a freak because he "feels fear," even though he himself is not afraid.

>>55417273
>>55417331
Oh fuck, I'm having Soul Drinkers flashbacks.
Those books are terrible.

At least, the first one is. I couldn't finish it.

>>55417368
Soul Drinkers were just a shitty concept period.

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>>55417354
>Although that does remind me about that bit from the ADB Night Lords trilogy about the one marine who can sense emotions.
It was this guy. Slaanesh got its claws into him.
>>55417368
How?

>>55417368
The 2nd is entertaining in a zombie apocalypse kind of way (Nurgle has the best deployment options in that book), it's a much better novel than the 1st.

>>55417393
>How?
They are literally the dumbest people in the entire setting.

>>55417493
There has to be someone dumber or as dumb.

>>55417514
Interpreting mutation as blessings of the Emperor requires a special kind of ignorance though, especially from a Space Marine.

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>>55417546
I remember that now. Just how does that even get through their heads.
>Spider legs are a sign of the Emperor's blessing.
>No seriously.

>>55417546
That's what put me off of them. Emps made such a big deal about eliminating humans that have mutated, yet it's totally cool to sprout extra legs and other crazy shit when you're a Soul Drinker.

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Good news I think. >>55417544 The grimdark future with novels without end is coming to an end now.

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>>55417586
The obviously confused the Emperor with Lolth.
It's a common mistake.

What do you think BL intend for Siege of Terra?

>>55417653
Do you have John French Iron Warriors meme?

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>>55417666
That sounds like a wondrous blunder, Lucifer.

>>55417286
>other legions conquer vast alien empires or create bations of humanity
>night lords greatest achievments involve spooking civilians by aping old terran horror movies

>>55417692
I don't have that one.

>>55417708
FUCK KILL IT.

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>>55417768
I haven't spider posted in months, boi.

>>55417717
Hell, the White Scars track record isn't so hot either.

>>55417785
Fuck those fucking eight legged assholes.

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>>55417795

>>55417854
I'll love you with a Goddamn flamethrower.

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>>55417881
M8, they'll keep you safe from sneks.

>>55417708
>>55417785
>>55417908
Hello Australiafag.

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>>55417975
If I was an aussie there would be more profanity and I wouldn't be able to post so much because of my bad internet connection.

>>55417653
>The grimdark future with novels without end is coming to an end now
>he thinks this cash cow will ever end
"Black Library is excited to announce The Great Scouring™"

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>>55418058
Wouldn't surprise me. Thankfully I came prepared.

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I fixed him up, what do you think

>>55418197
Nice.

>>55417628
They wouldn't really know what the Emperor thought though - 10,000 years is a long time. They know what the Inquisition says the Emperor said, but Astartes generally don't trust the Inquisition.

>>55418058
Scouring is already confirmed to follow, anon.

>>55418197
Much better! Only obvious issue is the hazard stripes. And feel free to push the highlights and shades to greater extremes next time.

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>3 monopose terminators with practically no options
>costs as much as 5 regular terminators with loads of options

The fact that they made these their own kit, but didn't give them Tartaros suits like the FW models have, makes me think somebody went "Why would they use our models and not the 30k models?"

>>55419124
I think they look great.

>>55419124
>>55419442
I don't. Then again, I'm not a huge fan of the CAD Sigmar aesthetics, or monopose unit models.

>>55420819
Monopose is not a problem if it's easy to swap out bits. Like the SM librarian, which has a lot of parts compatible with regular SM parts. Problem is when you can't even swap out the head and/or arms/hand on a model easily, meaning you're stuck with what you get. Unless you go heavy handed with cutting and green stuffing.

>>55417788
The White Scars were famous for their capabilities in lightning fast strikes and ability to go beyond supply lines. They became even more famed for their abilty during the siege of Terra. Night Lords don't even have a track record that doesn't involve skinning children.

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The end of the beginning.

>>55421430
Well Horus Heresy is fucked for good.

>>55421430
Is it wrong to have so little faith that it will end well? How do you think the HH Series should end to get the best out of it?

>>55421494
I think to just tell us well the story we know. Keep it simple.

>>55421494
Preferable without like 20 short stories about the battle of Terra

>>55421537
Already been confirmed for a retcon.

>>55421494
Vulcan don't reach Terra(if he reached Terra why he don't take part in siege).
Final battle that making you cry, brutal death of Sanguinius from hand of his once most beloved brother, single tear is going down emperor's cheek when Sanguinius died.

Horus vs Emperor duel, Emperor is heartbroken because he is fighting his most beloved son to the death, both of them are heavily wounded.
Finally some guy Custode/Olly Pesson is charging on Horus, Horus oblitrate him. That moment distract's Horus attention and Emps is doing massive supernova at Horus.
Horus is burning and he see what he have became and begs emps for forgivnes, then dies.
Dorn finds wounded Emperor blooded and sheed tears because his dreams are shattered and his son is slain by his own hand.
Emps taken to the throne, Malcador die, emps sheed one tear, Emps give last order(kill traitors) then sits on throne.
On Spirit Abaddon finds burned corpse of Horus and his mind is broken by grief. Traitors withdraw from terra.

Or something like that, sad story not chaos won and is best stepdad, Cabal was right all along and perpetuals.

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>>55417788
They fought a guerrilla war in the traitors' rear, got out once they couldn't keep winning, and prevented a collapse at the Imperial Palace by taking a spaceport, where the Khan dueled Mortarion. They won when it mattered.

Has anyone here used bits from a site called Shapeways?

I googled "luna wolves shoulder pads" and found their site. They have shoulder pads in various marks for several different legions/chapters. It also looks like the site has multiple sellers, which probably accounts for how ridiculously large and often redundant their selection is.

Anyway, I'm interested in getting some pauldrons from them, but I'd like to know beforehand how well they fit marines and match the 30k aesthetic. If no one here has tried 'em out, I'll probably just get a single set as a trial. If that happens I'll post the results here.

>>55421867
Is that a wraithguard swords?

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>>55422082
I haven't gotten any myself, but other people seem to have had good experiences with the parts.

>>55421663
Ah, fuck. Oh well.

>>55422403
Looks like a Nemesis force sword with a wraithblade blade.

>>55422451
Good to hear. Thanks, anon!

>>55421688
>(if he reached Terra why he don't take part in siege).
Could be dealing with a webway breach.

As for the rest of the post... how else could it end? We already know what happens, and it's that. They've talked about a retcon of some sort, but my guess is it'll be minor - I don't see the Emperor holding back against Horus until Oll's death.

>>55422082
Pop Goes the Monkey is the best-known 30k pauldron seller on Shapeways. Highly recommended, but some of his stuff recently got taken down due to IP issues. The poor guy tried to buy a license from GW a while ago, and they said no but that they wouldn't give him any trouble if he just didn't use any GW names. I'm guessing some new employee came along and flagged everything that got removed.

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Ixion Hale is in trouble.

ARISE, DEAD GAME GENERAL

>>55421494
Tell a good story first, let fanservice fall by the wayside.

And, as even ADB says, get Abnett to finish it.

>>55412711
>That's helpful, thanks. I won't put Dreadnoughts in a White Scars list
That's a fair point I forgot White Scars don't like dreadnoughts, but shit are they nice in 30k.
>Or keep the first two and add a vet squad.
I would probably lean towards this since you would be dropping a lot for a dubious gain in terms of staying power.

Not sure about White Scars' RoW or rules but you might be able to pull off some sort of hammer and anvil strategy, terminators can focus on objectives in or near your deployment zone (and thus might not need a transport) while you can use bikes, veterans, seekers, and anything more mobile to push forwards or bail out the terminators if something that is an actual threat pops up. Either way I tend to like putting two or three power fists in a terminator squad (or giving them all power fists to all of them if I have the points to spare) simply as a way to threaten ICs and two wound terminators that might threaten them. Even if they don't dissuade a charge they could possibly make their points back simply by killing off an expensive praetor or killing several Justaerin or Firedrakes.

new iron Warriors guy here, so I'm easing myself into 30k with my already posted lord and a newly built squad of MKIII marines I bought second hand, but I didn't realize tac squads can't take special weapons and I built one with a heavy bolter, why can't they take specials? I'll probably end up buying more and making a special weapon squad (iron havoks?) but i just thought it was wierd

>>55424763
>why can't they take specials

It's how legions were organized.

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>>55424763
During the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy, Legion Tactical squads were meant to be just line troops. Special weapons were handled by squads dedicated to that role. Unlike in 40k, there wasn't exactly a shortage of marines, so you didn't need to give Tactical squads special weapons to cover more bases.

It's a common mistake to make, it's alright. Just keep him on hand for a heavy weapon squad later down the road.

>>55424763
The legions operate kind of like the Craftworld Eldar. In a chapter, they only have a thousand guys, and in any given battle they're probably only going to field about 100.
The legions, in comparison, would field thousands in any given battle. The Luna Wolves, at least according to the first few HH novels, had companies about 300 or so strong.

Since they can field so many troops, the legions tend not to field flexible units.
Each unit is dedicated to one aspect of warfare. Tactical squads are bolter spam. Heavy weapon squads all use the same gun, and I think even the sergeant has one. Special weapon squads all have the same special weapon. Tanks are fielded in squadrons.

A tactical squad doesn't need to carry a flamer or a heavy bolter or a missile launcher because they can easily call in a squad wielding 10 of any of those weapons. Then, while the backup is dealing with the hard point, the tacticals are already moving on to kill shit and find targets for other units.
The objective is to keep moving at a rapid pace to prevent the enemy time to respond.

Apparently, Horus's decision to let his tactical squads take bolters, ccws, and bolt pistols was revolutionary since it actually did give them flexibility without really changing their role in the army.

>>55424999
So Horus is the reason Marines charge into combat, rather than doing anything tacticool?

>>55424763
>why can't they take specials?
Legions were organized more for open warfare meaning (at least for warhammer) regular squads didn't need special weapons. Instead special weapons were focused in specialized squads where they could bring their firepower to bare more efficiently.

In otherwords instead of buying a tactical squad for one heavy bolter and a plasma gun you buy a tactical squad for a horde of marines, if you want plasma guns you buy 5+ marines all of whom are armed with plasma guns who can uttlerly rape terminators.

>>55425135
Makes sense when you can't fire your plasma gun at terminators while the rest of your unit shoots at guardsmen. I would rather have a ten man squad of guys with plasma guns, a 10 man squad of guys with heavy bolters, and 4 20 man squads of just bolter marines than 10 squads of 10 dudes divided between 8 bolter marines, 1 dude with a plasma gun and 1 dude with a heavy bolter.

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>>55388027

LIVE, DAMN YOU!

New here
>>55426942
>>55426942
>>55426942

>>55420819
>>55419124
Fuck monopose, I planned to buy a box of these for conversions, but not anymore.

Hopefully the other DG terminators are 5 in a box and isn't monopose.

>>55420885
7 heads in the kit, arms looks tough to swap out.

>>55422082
I hear lots of things got taken down recently, so buy it while it's there if it's something you really want.

>>55422865
Latest blood game eh?