>2017 >not using a generic system to fully realize your

>>55334065
But I'm already using GURPS haha, gotcha, I'm not using GURPS.
I'm using Strike!.

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>>55334065
>run too many games with too many subjects and settings to justify finding and learning a new system every week
>just use Fate for everything because fffffuck it?
And fuck freeform, it's the difference between a toothless alley blowjob and a brothel to me. AIDS.

>>55334065
Systems mean alot and homebrewing stuff to make it work isnt the best idea.
I love fate, but I wouldnt use it for a story that needs a more oppressive or tactical tone. Even the writers of it would say the same thing.

>>55334250
Right, that's what GURPS is for.

>>55334065
DnD is my favorite genric system :^)

>>55334065
>2017
>not using a system designed to mechanically support the kind of narrative suited to the game you and your group want to play

>>55334065
> Recognizing Hero
Mah nig-

> Also recognising Fudge
> In an image that recognizes Fate
Mah double nigga.

>Not mentioning WaRP
Shame

>Using a system that can do everything almost well instead of a system that does one thing really well
Why?

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>>55334302

>>55334065
>FATE
Kinda cool idea bogged down with dumb shit. Should be a 10-20 page game, now has supplements and "toolkits" released for it that make it seem like a full-fledged rules-heavy system which was the opposite of its original purpose (now its purpose is to make money for Evil Hat).
>GURPS
Probably the only good game on this list, doesn't work well for over-the-top heroics, and a bit rules heavy. I don't like the to-hit/dodge mechanics in someways but they are good for drawn out swordfights.
>fudge
Also decent as an idea but too vague to be of much value.
>hero system
If palladium shat out a generic system, this would be it.
>Tri-Stat
Bland as fuck. Reminds me of AFMBE's core system it's based off of, even though its completely different. Seems boring, never want to play it after reading the rules through once.
>Savage Worlds
Shit game, swingy damage, stupid meme guns, retard memes like Katana ignoring armor, has GURPS-tier retarded disadvantages that don't actually mean anything, and is shit for any campaign that doesn't involve a high concentration of swarm-fighting because that's all the combat system is good for. "Fast Furious Fun" ... yeah that epic fight with the dragon is over in 2 rounds. Cool!

>not using a generic system to fully realize your wildest fantasies
If there was an actually good one out there, I would use it. MiniSix is pretty good, though, and the fact you didn't include it on your list, along with shitloads of other universal systems, shows what a normie YOU are.

>>55336205
>now has supplements and "toolkits" released for it that make it seem like a full-fledged rules-heavy system
I thought it was because Core needs those toolkits since it's a very frail skeleton without any meat.

>>55334302
Got to agree, now days you can run games of more then just fantasy on D&D

But truth be told, lots of systems are like that - no joke I could run a fantasy game for you on freeking dark heresy, or a just middevial non fantasy game

>>55336205

>>hero system
>If palladium shat out a generic system, this would be it.

What did he mean by this?

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>>55334065
>about to start an IKRPG game next week

wish me luk

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I think I would be more interested in FATE Core System if it didn't have cyborg Leslie Jones on its cover, to be quite honest.

>>55336264
No, FATE works fine by itself because the point is that an imbecile could adapt it to the setting they want without any issue.

How does you people feel about ORE?
Does it have potential to be an actual generic system or should it stay with the games that already use it?

>>55336427
The tragedy of low-budget indie rpg universal systems: shitty art that actively distracts and discourages bothering.

Unfortunate fact about human psychology is that a strong visual can sell an idea.
Things like Broquest and Tower Princesses is literally not even a game, but has such strong visual that people like it anyway.

But you only get one shot to make a first impression and it will instantly color the viewer's expectation. And you can never satisfy everyone's internal imaginary image.

>>55336181
While there is certainly an element of truth to this, I feel like this is a fairly common misconception.

Systems specific to a setting or genre are not inherently superior to a generic system appropriate for aping it. They certainly can be, but that's far from being a rule.

As an easy example, Shadowrun is a shit system and is even worse at doing its own setting and feel than many other generic systems out there.
Pendragon is an example of a system that does what it's billed as extraordinarily well, but that's primarily because of virtues and such which can easily be aped or ported into many other systems; the rest of the system is fairly bog standard and provides no real flavor in and of itself, and would be just as functional and flavorful were it to be played in GURPS (even still using the Great Pendragon Campaign virtually as is) with a few tweaks such as the virtues mechanics or something that emulates the same feel at the very least.

Generic systems, in many cases, are easily able to perform as well as, if not better, than tailor made systems (even those which are not obviously flawed). There are obviously many cases where the more specialized system is flat-out better but those are fairly rare and unique in my experience.

For examples of those I'd call out Dread, Don't Rest Your Head, apoc world, Amber diceless, and Dogs in the Vineyard. Those are pretty specific though, and IMO are edge cases.

The fact is that many "dedicated" systems are either not that inherently flavorful (though the settings tied to them can be) or are simply not very well crafted systems.

Big fan of Savage Worlds. Love playing it with my friends. But it doesn't do certain things well. High fantasy, for example. When we're in the mood for that we just play DND.

>>55336181
>seeing a generic system as a straight jaket instead of a jumping off point
Found your problem

>>55336675
I wouldn't call Savage Worlds generic, anyways. It's intended for campy, pulp action or b-movie style games. As an example, the horror rules have you place a cone template down for blood sprays, covering and shocking characters in it. Very campy. That's why fantasy doesn't work well, fantasy isn't like either of those things.

>>55336205
>GURPS
>good
>Savage Worlds
>shit
what an autist

but you mentioned Mini Six so there's hope for you yet

>>55336738
...That's an optional rule, did you just forget to read?

>>55336518
In my opinion ORE es better at being adapted as specific setting systems than a generic one.
By that I mean, it lets you to easily make it into a new "system for your setting". But is hard to use as is as a generic solution.

>>55336758
Oh shit. Sorry, didn't realize. Still though. The game was intentionally designed for pulp action games. It can be placed in any setting you like, but I feel it's a bit less generic than other truly generic systems, as it's hard to shake the pulp action feel of the rules.

What's a generic ruleset that is rules-light like DnD5e? My table is neck deep in 5e and they don't look like they're willing to switch but maybe if I can get a system that's as light as 5e, perhaps they are willing to jump as well. It's that during session 0 they express a campaign that's well beyond the capabilities of the system (that or it doesn't quite fit)

They're asking for an urban fantasy which I don't think 5e fits for it.

>>55336835
Fate.
Savage Worlds if they like tactical combat.

>>55334065
>not making your own system for a given setting that works exactly as you want it to
Shits hard but worth it

>>55336835
>>55336879
I agree with this Anon. Generic rulesets aren't all as intimidating as GURPS.

>>55334065
>not considering the objectively superior BRP

>>55334065
Generic systems are the Linux of role-playing games. Sure, they might be technically expansive and suitable to a large number of themes but they're not popular and generally more crunchy than other systems so you have a small group of deducted users who constantly still for them so they have someone to play with but are so entrenched in their system they are incapable of understanding why it's difficult for newbies to learn.

>>55336744
Anon, there's no hope for virt

>>55336972
>Literally every generic system is GURPS

>>55336923
>randomly generated stats
>superior ever
Get out.

>>55337039
Yeah, I should've realised. Maybe it was the lack of jerking off to elf murder that threw me off.

>>55336835
Risus
Also 5e is not rules light

>>55337080
It's not? Not the guy you're replying to but wasn't 5e's design philosophy was to get the crunch the fuck out esp coming off from 3.5e and 4e?

>>55336972
What is risus

>>55337097
>"Compared to [incredibly crunchy systems] 5e is rules light!"

Run a session of Cthulhu Dark and get back to me about how lightweight 5e is.

>>55334065
Different genres have different needs and system that's crafted for the needs of the genre will always be better for it than generic universal system.

Of course for the convenience I own and have run multiple generic systems and they do have their place, but if I can find a system that fills my vision of a game, I prefer using that.

>>55337097
It's lighter than DnD used to be. It's still not rules light. Closer than DnD has been in awhile, though, I'll give you that.

>>55337097
Less crunch than 3.pf is not little crunch.
I agree that risus is a extrem case, but no DnD game is rules light.

>>55336205
>hero system
>If palladium shat out a generic system, this would be it.

You are weak like pirate. HERO has some of the best explanations for the how and why of its design choices in any TTRPG, as well as being one of the best tuned systems for the genre it emulates (capeshit).

>>55336655
What the fuck are you smoking with Shadowrun not being able to do its own genre (cyberpunk fantasy) well? It's one of the only games to have a functional set of magical metaphysics that interacts with the material world in an interesting way. SR5's play mechanics are a dumpster fire, but Shadowrun itself marries mechanics to setting extremely well.

And a generic system that is tuned to a different set of assumptions about play/the world than the game being ported will not do a good job of emulating said game. In certain cases, this is not a bad thing (GURPS and oWoD) and sometimes it's hot garbage (Monte Cook's World of Darkness)

Mini Six is probably my favorite generic system, but I wish there were more guidelines for creating your own content for it, or at least converting OpenD6 content to Mini Six.

>>55336744
Nice get, it's also your IQ isn't it retard-o?

>Not using superior Rolemaster for everything

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>>55334367
Good luck finding a system that does it to a T, instead of constructing your own body of rules with GURPS.

>>55334281
Yes, GURPS IS for
>>55334250
>a more oppressive or tactical tone.

The problem is all the people who seem to think that GURPS can run every tone just because it can run every setting.

I recently finished my cyberpunk setting for the cypher system
I call it cypherpunk

>>55336797

I dunno man, I have run a handful of games with it and only Savage Rifts felt campy so far and that was pretty intentional. Did a bog-standard fantasy game and a space horror games and neither felt campy at all. I know people say its campy and pulpy all the time, but I swear they just say it because other people have said it and not because they have actually run it.

>>55337097

5e is medium crunch, about the same complexity as Savage World imo. It's sure as shit less complex as 3.PF or 4e, but its not like the dumbed it all the way down to oD&D or anything.

>>55334065
I am hopefully going to be running an alternate history WW2 game soon in which the PC's will be members of the Home Guard In Britain after a successful Operation Sealion (the planned German invasion of Britain) using Savage Worlds Explorer Edition. High mortality and low chance of success in any degree.

>>55334065
>2017
>still thinks games should be made to suit crass desires instead of playing games RAW to understand their essence

>>55340771
Not him, but my fantasy game has been pretty action movie-ish, despite not trying to be. Though that mostly has come in through the chase rules. Otherwise I agree with you, it has optional rules to make it pulpy but otherwise does not have to be.

>>55337057
I have low-ish IQ (87) so I don't like thinking about maths

>>55336181
Can't speak for everyone in the thread, but I jumped on a generic system when I realized it ran almost all the popular games better than their native systems.

Obviously, a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none system is inferior to a master crafted system specialized in the type of game you want to run, but the world doesn't work like that. A game can be specialized and still be shit (e.g. PF, earlier editions of Exalted, most of WoD, etc.), and a general system can still be high quality and even have areas in which they really shine (e.g. GURPS with fechts and innawoods operating, SW with pulpy action).

>>55334367
>>55336181
>>55336972
>>55337168
see >>55341534

>>55340935
You're alright though

>>55336181
>Be me
>Like fantasy
>Play Pathfinder and 5e
>Hate PF, tolerate 5e
>Want to be able to play a customizable game that doesn't require building dozens of things from the ground up, well that and allows people

>Play game of Mutants and Masterminds 3e/DC Adventures
>Love it, lets me do so much without throwing a shit fit over things like sizes or racial abilities
>Run fantasy game in it
>Supplements and even the main book already have magic
>Because, turns out, DnD is just fantasy superheroes anyway.

>Player wants to play a knight that uses explosive rune armor and punches
>DnD: NO, LEVEL 1! PUNCHING NOT OPTIMAL! USE BIG WEAPON LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
>MnM: Sure

>Player wants to play as a centaur
>DnD: TOO MANY LEGS, TOO BIG, NO FREE MOUNT FOR YOU! GO DIG THROUGH HOMEBREW TRASH
>MnM: Sure, you can take 4 ranks of Growth to represent a to scale horse's size, but that's only if you want to, and you probably wouldn't have to if you were to play with a deer-half!

>Player wants to play a martial that doesn't suck
>DnD: HOPE YOU LIKE USING THE ATTACK ACTION BECAUSE THOSE OTHER MANEUVERS AREN'T GONNA DO JACK! YOU WANT INTERESTING SWORD? YOU WAIT 10 SESSIONS OF GOBLIN AND ORC SPANKING!
>MnM: Sure, you can outfit your fighter with magic items from the beginning, being basically powers that have a flaw of being removed in mundane means. You want to be the fuck strong barbarian and throw that boulder? Sure, just buy enough Strength and you can lift tons. You wanna be a practical fighter? Sure, you can outfit them with things ranging from skills actually useful in and out of combat, advantages that only cost a point out of a hundred and a half, and even a slew of mundane but powerful weaponry or even other power effects that allow you to do other stuff besides damage.

>>55342640
I am studying M&M in order to utterly BTFO Pathfinder while simultaneously assimilating it.

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>>55334065
>Generic systems

>>55342640
Playing a fantasy Batman in M&M was incredible. Just with an equipment array alone you can make tons of shit more useful than anything a PF martial would ever have.

>>55342640
>>55345373
How portable might Pathfinder be over to M&M might you guys suppose?

>>55345655
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279503-D-amp-D-in-M-amp-M-a-new-approach-to-rebalancing-3-5-PF

>>55336655
GURPS isn't a good system, though.

>>55334065
i know way more game systems than you and I am the normie??? try again please.

>>55336382
not him but it means that it is convoluted

>>55336797
I actually have a good time running horror in Savage Worlds because as the sesh goes on and the players start running out of bennies, there's a real crossing of in-game and out-game dread and worry.

>>55337389
>>55336655
And neither Shadowrun nor GURPS have been able to handle Hacking/Netrunning/Matrix well.

>>55345696
Excellent. Thank you.

I like Minisix and ORE

>>55336205
Hi Virtual Optim!

>>55336205
Pop question: how do grenades work in Mini Six?

>>55336675
It does sword and sorcery very well.

I'm thinking about running a GURPS campaign.
Never really looked into the system before.

I was wondering, what do you guys recommend? 4th ed. or 3rd? 3rd seems to be more mature, and it has a few settings/rulesets that I think I might like to take advantage of. Is there anything that might compel me to use 4th?

>>55336972
And much like Linux there's Ubuntu and Mint (Savage Worlds, Mini Six, Fate, etc.) for people who don't want to put in the effort.

>>55334065
Nah. I'll just play a d20 adaptation of whatever I need

>>55346676
Cool, all the downsides of a generic system (often bloated core mechanics, design decisions that don't fit the genre you want to play) with none of the upsides (doesn't require a new book).

>>55346668
4th is strictly better. It's not like modern D&D where most of the system gets thrown out with each new edition, they're iterative improvements and, as long as you keep GURPS Update on hand, easy as shit to convert between. Most of the supplements, especially once you get into 4e, are "here's how to do thing with the core book content".

>>55342640
My nigga

>>55345781
GURPS is a good system. Not for everyone though.

>>55346057
GURPS does hacking pretty well with the Action-based cinematic hacking rules in pyramid. There are also more crunchy "realistic" and in-depth versions of hacking rules found in a couple sourcebooks/supplements if that's the direction you prefer, but I tend towards the cinematic stuff. I've no experience with Shadowrun beyond 2nd ed. so can't really comment on that.

>>55347591
Oh, I should also add GURPS has its own cyberspace/matrix-style rules as well which are also quite cinematic that seem nice and like they'd flow well after a readthrough, though I've not used them yet so can't say for sure.

I love HERO for how bullshit it is. Half the fun is coming up with new bullshit you can make with all of the content creation rules, something I feel a lot of generic systems are sorely lacking.

>>55337057
There's random, roll and pick, AND point buy methods of creating characters. Are you retarded?

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>>55334065
For the same reason why I eat a variety of foods instead of just guzzling a nutritive but tasteless slurry for every meal

>>55334065
I just took D&D 5e and changed a couple of names, mixed a couple of numbers and bang, custom game.

>>55334170
Dude, me too. I've got an idea that would be perfect for Hero System (psychic kids, game starts with them locked in research facility), but I'm such a lazy piece of shit that I'm prolly just gonna end up using Fate again.

But honestly, that's a point in Fate's favor. So easy to teach, play, and adapt to your needs. And it's waaaaay better than freeform, honestly so much fun.

>>55335696
Tell me more, I play Fate. Also Hero, fuck yeah.

>>55334065
Can run any game you want, but all are mediocre

>>55336205
>>55336264
>>55336515
The Fate toolkit is great stuff to read if you actually play or are interested in playing Fate. It's full of useful ideas for how to get the most out of the game and is totally worth reading. Fate is the heaviest rules light, and that's before considering the actual setting specific content. It's super robust, and, if you learn to use it correctly (which is more difficult than crunchy systems, for the same reason it's more difficult to freeform) it can run anything quickly, easily, and engagingly. And you can get a whole party of newbs' characters built exactly how they want and play a complete scene all from memory. And your players will have learned just about everything they need to know by then.

Honestly I've never had a reason to not play FATE ever since I started running it. I honestly recommend every GM give FATE a try at least once.

All these years later, I still think the "skill pyramid" is a bit janky though. Let a campaign run long enough and you get a situation where everyone's taken a few +1s in skills like Craft or Drive that have little to do with their character's narrative skill set, but they needed to blow a milestone on just to maintain the shape of the pyramid for the eventual chance to upgrade the skill they actually use.

>>55336835
Fate. Unlike most anons about most game, I can actually say that I've used this system to have lots of fun.

Tips: It's not as easy as it looks. I think it's very important to frame things with scenes, and also to remember to actually write down situation aspects.

>>55348236
I agree with you completely. You do have to put in work with Fate, especially when figuring it how powers work. Other than that, it's been incredible.

>>55347591
>GURPS does hacking pretty well with the Action-based cinematic hacking rules in pyramid.
The Console Cowboys issue? I'll check it out.

>>55346676
Sadly there are players that actually think and do this to this day.

>>55347883
Hero System is a lesson in freedom really. It gives you the tools to build anything you want but it's not figurative like D&D 3.5 - it literally let's you build *anything* and that means that the GM must be wary of what the players build or else the campaign will be complete chaos.

>>55334065
what's the best system to play where the only magic is Ritual magic? namely, this one:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RitualMagic
> a method of casting spells based on the performance of specific words, gestures, actions and offerings at specific places and times. Magic isn't a question of talent, spiritual enlightenment, or a power you're born with. It's something that anyone can learn, even (perhaps dangerously) a Muggle. This puts Ritual Magic closer to technology than other forms of Functional Magic; it works because of knowledge that has been collected about the natural world and used in a certain way, and witches and wizards are essentially "engineers" of magic. This concept of magic is very old, going back to Ancient Egyptian beliefs and practices.

basically, very practical ritualsand non-dnd magic.

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>>55348061
How quick it is to teach and play is its major selling point. I've had groups go from never having heard of the game to playing it in under an hour.

Joke's on you Anon, I Gm with a system of my own to tailor my games for the needs of my playing group.

>>55348070
As you might know Fate started as a Fudge variant hence the dice, the description ladder, and even the skill pyramid. On the other hand Fate has grown to be a much bigger name than its parent system but Fudge is still a more than worthy game of playing as tinkering with. However Fudge is a little more pedestrian than Fate having been born in the 90s. It has Attributes, Skills, Gifts, and Flaws all of which are up for being determined for a given game including everything being completely determined by the players. Fudge is a game about not giving too much of a damn. Grab 4dF, write some stuff down, and let's go.

Have a look here for more.
http://www.fudgerpg.com/about/about-fudge.html

>>55342640
So you basically want to start at level 10 in every dnd game?

Anyone try EABA? I've heard good things about it, but never read up on it.

>>55350719
It takes 10 levels to become a fun character in D&D?

>>55347591
>GURPS is a good system. Not for everyone though.
It's bad. Pile of virtually useless skills, bizarre pricing of everything, have to buy a new book every time you want to do something else because there's 0 guide on homebrewing and the system isn't built for it.

>>55350584
"So beautiful that people go mad with jealousy" is a totally valid flaw, what a little shit.

>>55350577
It's not really all that great, but no one has responded to you yet so I'll tell you the one I'm familiar with. Savage Worlds has ritual magic in it in a few ways, but I think the best is in the Lankhmar setting.

Standard magic in that setting costs no Mana or anything, spells just have negative modifiers to cast. You can stretch the casting out as many rounds as you want, chanting and performing sacraments, each round decreasing the negative modifier a little, until you feel comfortable enough to cast. There is also black magic, which always halves the modifier out the gate but is bad and fucking up can harm you, causing physical disfiguration. Also, once you cast a black magic spell you can't go back to white magic.

There is also properly named ritual magic, where you're literally chanting, using candles, offering up valuables to dark forces, etc. You (and usually a group of other casters) stand around, slowly performing a ritual that can take minutes, hours, or even days, though usual just minutes, as it's GM discretion. You make multiple rolls, with multiple chances to fail, but the spell ends up being way more powerful than normal, and can be cast on a target miles away.

Anyone can learn the knowledge needed for these sacraments, and anyone can even join a ritual and be helpful, though you usually want good backup casters for those as failure can potentially kill everyone with magical backlash.

>>55350990
Ignore the part where I said it's not that great, I actually was going to start off by describing a shitty ritual magic background in Savage Worlds before describing the Lankhmar one and deleted most of that part, but accidentally left the first part in. I do in fact think it's pretty great.

>>55350984
That's not a flaw of her character though. That's a flaw of everyone else.

>>55351046
You can have flaws that are entirely social.

>>55350894
Unless you play 4e, yeah. 5-6 at bare minimum.

>>55351062
Yeah, but that's kind of a cop out. That'd be like saying, "my dick is so big that everyone is super jealous all the time"

>>55351081
That would also be a valid flaw.

>>55350990
Thanks for the info on Savage Worlds, i haven't tried it yet, and i'm surprised you can do ritual magic in there, and your description of it is exactly what i'm looking for. Can you play it in the modern era? my setting is basically:

>modern era
>ritual magic
>gods/deities are real life ones from different cultures(ancient egyptian, mayan, etc.)
>magical artifacts are either real historical stuff(ex. the grand grimoire, several spellbooks that's said to be stored the the vatican's archives) or something the GM can make but it must have a connection to real life(ex. crowley's secret spell book, a water bottle that's said to have magical properties because it was created by poseidon himself, glove worn by Joan of arc that's said to contain magic for exorcising demons, etc.)

>>55351144
You sure can. Since Savage Worlds is generic, it has the option to play in any setting. You could simply use the core book, which has guns, cars, etc, but also future and medieval stuff in it if you wanted, and supplement it with the Lankhmar book. Since everything is compatable you could just take the magic from the Lankhmar setting and just use it in a modern setting. You could use the fantasy companion book, as it's filled with prewritten magic items, though I hate that book as that's all its good for.

>>55351144
I should probably also mention spell trappings. The game, instead of giving you a large list of spells, gives you a smaller list of basic spells. For example, you might be given a spell that causes fatigue on your target. You as the spellcaster feels this does essentially what you want out of a spell. You name the spell "The Thirst if Thaedar" and establish that it causes fatigue by causing extreme thirst, and potentially killing you. If your target escapes your spell, he can remove that fatigue by drinking. You could alternatively name that same spell "The Sorrow" and explain that it causes depression, and the fatigue could then be removed by taking a breather and reflecting on yourself.

>>55351144
>>55350990
Another neat Savage Worlds book that has Ritual Magic in it is "East Texas University". Also has tables you can roll on for ritual components and stuff.
https://files dot catbox dot moe/3fd8zb.pdf

>>55351433
I'd love to check that out. I haven't been able to look at all of the settings.

>>55351265
>>55351399
thanks for the info.
I just like settings where magic is risky and therefore PCs will just have to outsmart their enemy rather than beating them up with magic.

>>55351513
Then I'd definitely go with Lankhmar, as all of the magic requires time to lower the negative penalties or else you take a big risk casting early. The setting is also nice as there aren't many spells that only deal damage, as the setting is a classic sword and sorcery thing.

>>55350584
Yeah, but the great thing is, unlike a lot of rules lights, it actually does it's job despite it's simplicity. I tried playing FU before, and that is torturous. If you figure out how to use Fate (the freedom and lightweight nature of it make it easy to misuse and not get anything from it), it's very empowering and fun.

>>55350984
It's a Mary Sue flaw, where it's actually more beneficial than it is detrimental.

People getting jealous is hardly a penalty compared with being ridiculously beautiful.

>>55352832
Aren't all your Aspects supposed to be things you can invoke for a positive or a negative?

I mean for all you know, she was cursed to be so beautiful that people go mad with jealousy, which would obviously be bad.

>>55351265
>>55351433
>>55351584
I really would not suggest playing Savage Worlds. It is a badly designed system with terrible meta-mechanics that encourage not only metagaming but ending session early, it also makes it near impossible for characters to fail at anything. The gun mechanic are broken, and literally do not make sense. The only thing it is good for is being a miniatures wargame, and it even sucks at most of that. Exploding dice make stupid shit happen constantly, the damage is way overkill for 90% of the threats allowing characters to one-shot massive creatures with tiny weapons. On the other end, characters literally cannot fail, because they have three bennies per session which allow them to reroll whatever the fuck they want (not damage rolls, to be fair, but still). And the GM is told he is a piece of shit if he doesn't hand out more bennies for "good roleplaying" (in other words, stupid nat20-lolz bullshit). Also the characters get to roll a wild die with their normal roll and take the wild die if it is higher, thus making them even less likely to fail at anything. Not to mention the cancer of the bennies being basically a safe-space for retarded character actions, CAN and WILL spread to other RPGs you play with this group. Just count down the sessions until your character asks during D&D after failing a roll "can I have a bennie"? No, get fucked faggot. Failure is an important part of RPGs and Savage Worlds throws that shit out the window.

>>55353171
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that if you ever talk about Savage Worlds on /tg/ this one specific guy will come out and attack you for liking the system. I honestly think the only reason DnD gets attacked more is because it's discussed more. Go check out the Savage Worlds general if you want about 100 posts of exactly this.

>>55353260
There's a lot of games with dedicated autists who will attack you because your elfgames aren't the elfgames they want you to play, and they'll shit up any thread talking about them because it triggers them that much.

>>55342640
>>55336181
To be honest, as far a I see, M&M is not a truly generic do anything system.
It still has a tone of heroics and outstanding people doing things. It works for D&D-like fantasy because it has that tone once you're out of the "fighting fat rats" stage. It can do modern supers, it can do classic Greek myth tragic heroes.

But the further you go from that tone the harder it gets to adapt.

>>55350696
>http://www.fudgerpg.com/about/about-fudge.html
>you can only download 5 files per day
>files such as the core rules and char sheets

What the fuck is this

>>55353760
You're not wrong. Perhaps you could call it a "semi-generic" system.

>>55353366
I don't like "elfgames" and I don't like Savage Worlds because of its shit mechanics, including shooting being absolutely broken and unrealistic to the point it would make d20 Modern blush.

>>55334065
I like fate, but good specialized system will always be better than good generic one.

>>55355657
Show us on the doll where the game touched you, Anon.

>>55355657
Anon, you don't just don't like SW. You seem to have an almost obsessive hatred for it.
Acutally, forget that "almost".
Which is fine. Or would be. If it wasn't so fucking annoying.

>>55355852
Not an argument.
>>55355881
I don't have an obsessive hatred for it. But if I see someone recommending it, I am going to call them out because most Savage Worlds fans can't defend the game's dozens of glaring flaws.

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>>55355917

>>55355917
So you are not the guy that's also shitting up the SW general?

>>55355940
Oh, he is. He was gone from both threads for awhile and then popped back up in both about the same time.

>>55355917
Flaws so glaring that you can't even describe in convincing manner.
You say vague things about guns, which really does nothing to convince me or probably anyone especially when you use the "unrealistic" as a part of your argument.
Then you also write a fucking essay about generic re-roll points that exists in multitude of systems and are fine.

So, yea, you sound like a tiny bitch crying about game he doesn't like. Boo-fucking-hoo.

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>>55352832
>It's a Mary Sue flaw
It really isn't, as long as it's played right. You could play it as a chaste woman whose appearance brings out uncontrollable urges in men, which is why she hides her face. Tie in a tragic backstory of someone murdering the man she truly loved out of jealousy, and you have a neat character. Pic related is a great example of intoxicating beauty that drives men insane with jealousy and desire, but you can't really roleplay Tomie.

>>55356083
Well put, Anon. But he's a very dedicated troll, you're not gonna dissuade him.

>>55353260
>somebody else coming in and advising against the system you like (while being incredibly specific about his points so that the other anon can make an informed discussion) is "attacking you"
Holy shit anon are you okay? I mean he comes off as a right sperg (especially when he talks about bennies) but you're being pretty stupid.

>>55356164
You're him, aren't you? Post count did not increase.

>>55356202
No one is attacking you, you stupid faggot.

>>55356164
Writing a long post, is not "being specific", that's the worst thing. He writes a book and says nothing.

Which, I guess, means that he should get some sort of literary price.

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>>55356202
Nope. It hurts your argument when you try to act like it's just one mean person on the internet out to get you. It makes you look like a fucking pathetic loony.

>>55356269
It really is funny: he goes into stupid amounts of detail, even sperging over really generic metapoint mechanics, only to not go into any of -- what I believe -- to be the system's fundamental flaws.

>>55350894
If your definition of fun is having lots of powers and shiny objects, then yeah.

>>55356307
Oh wow you posted an image that proves you aren't him, good job. Totally believable.

>>55356415
What do you want me to do anon? Why bother asking the question if you're not going to like the answer? Even ignoring the fact that the IP counter did go up. You're really not doing a good job of convincing me you're not just a crazy dude with a persecution complex. Or are you just stressed because the other anon literally carpet bombed your house by disagreeing with your suggestion? Going back up and reading it: I'd also like to point out he didn't even say anything against you in the post at all. All his nerdrage was directed at the system itself. Maybe it's time to take a break from the internet for today anon.

>>55356400
>being able to do fun things and have fun stuff is fun
I believe that's what normal people believe, yes.

>>55356415
Kek, that pussy ran away rather than try to argue.

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>>55356415
Oh, and by the way, now that you ran off like a fucking pussy, it was me the entire time. Should have fucking stuck to your guns.

>>55356307
>>55357313
Those two screenshots look like they were taken by completely different people. What the fuck is going on in this thread? Why is /tg/ suddenly /b/?

>>55357313
You forgot the (72) anon. Nice try but have more attention to detail next time.

>>55334065
Hero is my system waifu.
I've run pretty much every genre with it.

>>55355657
So you admit to not understanding D20 Modern as well as not getting Savage Worlds.

Melee was utterly overpowered in D20 Modern.

>>55357666
Not him, but I just heard Dex was utterly overpowered in D20 Modern, senpai. But I haven't choked on it long enough to know, so please explain, if you could.

>>55334065

I've run about a half dozen campaigns using EABA by BTRC.

Personally I find it superior to all the other generic systems.

>>55359610
If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you would tell us about the system and your campaigns. It's one I've been interested in but I have heard almost nothing about how it actually works in play.

>>55359610
I don't recognize those acronyms. Could you explain the system in a little more detail? I'd like to know about it.

>>55356149
A party composed entirely of Junji Ito-style horrors might be thoroughly awesome or utterly unworkable. Suppose you've got Tomie: what's the rest of the party like?

>>55360215

EABA is a system where stas and skills are expressed as dice, or fractions of dice. Similar to the old west end d6 system, each die is broken up into two "pips". 1d6, 1d6+1, 1d6+2, 2d6, etc.

Where EABA differs, is that you only keep the best of three dice, no matter how many dice you roll. This manages a lot of the scaling problems that the old west end system had.

If this thread is up tomorrow I'll go into more detail, but for now I have to go.

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>>55350584
Everyone always wanting to motorboat you is probably a serious flaw.

>>55350584
>The most beautiful elven princess the land has ever seen
>Has extreme anxiety gas

That's a decent level out, right?

>>55345917

Palladium is convoluted, with many moving parts that are unnecessary or don't work for what's intended.

Hero system has lots of moving parts that all contribute to its purpose. You might not like it, but it accomplishes exactly what it sets out to do. If you can take its complexity, it's better at being a universal system than GURPS, and you don't need a hundred sourcebooks to do it.

>>55358742
Dexterity is really good in every D20 system except Mutants and Masterminds. But melee in D20 Modern because the damage scales as you level up thanks to power attack, applies a stat modifier to damage, and you can charge 60 feet with and lock up ranged combatants, who then have to move or suffer an attack of opportunity to attack (as well as a -4 penalty for longarm users). It was a commonly discussed problem back when the D20 Modern WotC forums were still around.

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Because my players all watch shitty 5e streams on Twitch and think 5e is the pinnacle of TTRPGS

AOIUDOIAHDUDHAUOHDJSLAHODIHAIODHAISJAOISHUAISHYASBKASBSYUIQHOWIQUPWQPW

>>55334065
Tbh the generic ones are either number hell or they don't have any directives whatsoever, forcing the storyteller to decide what happens without much guidance... plus making it hard to decide which stats to use when you only have 3 or such.

Have to confess they look amazing until you play them, though. I hate it the most from DM perspective, players can easily just go with the flow anywhere...

So which universal system is both easy to learn, crunchy enough to still have enough complexity, but not so autistic that you're spending hours creating characters and taking turns in combat?

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>>55362620
/tg/ is a discussion board, not a miracle generator, anon

>>55362620
Savage Worlds?

>>55362620
Maid RPG

>>55362656
Is savage worlds good for both fantasy and sci-fi? I have some RPGs that have good settings but shitty game design, and I'm wondering if adapting the parts of those settings into an RPG would be a better experience with something like savage worlds, or if FATE is just so universal that it'd just be easier to use that instead?

Should I just buy both base books?

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>>55334065
Alright, I'll bite. Which of these generic systems would work fairly well in a world of huge robot arenas with some non-robot spying/hacking on the side?

>>55362706
SW is good for most things. It's not the best fit for everything, and it's not particularly deep, but it's fast to set up and play.

>>55362706
I think it's great for most things, but for fantasy it's just alright compared to the other things it can do. It's not bad, but the powers are all quick working and combat focused unless you use alternate rules it provides to fix the issue (mentioned by anons earlier in the thread). I do love the spells, though. Since players choose how they work, you end up with pretty fun ones.

>not using a variety of systems as the whim takes you

No anon, you are the normies.

>>55362747
GURPS.

they have a splat specifically for that.

>>55362620
Valor: the Heroic Role-Playing Game.

>>55362876
Ultra-tech ?

>>55363234
Mechwars.

>>55363238
I know you're spooning a lot already, but the mega doesn't have this. Is there another mega for it?

>>55363249
Nvm. It's just 3e Gurps rather than 4e Gurps.

Is 3e much inferior to 4e?

>>55363284
IMO 4e is the dumbed down 3e.

>>55362620
GURPS under highly controlled situations and/or with people who know what they're doing.

>>55362620
Risus

>>55362620
Strike!

Although, I must admit I did have a retarded player who spent 5+ hours agonizing over his skill list, trying to minmax it, so even that is not idiot proof.

>>55362865
>not using a personal homebrew system to emulate everything

You are like a little baby.

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>>55334065
>Using GURPS to play Ironclaw.

>>55362620

FATE? It has a different sort of complexity, so it's not crunchy the way D&D is crunchy, but you won't have anyone complaining that their characters are too much like one and other unless they actively try to make themselves similar to one and other for Roleplay reasons.

>>55342640
How does M&M 3e?
Is equivalent to d20herosrd.com ?
Anything important I should know to get the manuals and start a campaign?

>>55368499
Fate IS complex in its own way, but it has almost no mechanical depth. The mechanics are very one size fits all, and it takes some significant houseruling to make combat tactical at all, outside of using the environment and your aspects. I also dispute the idea that it's easy to learn. Just because it should be a 12 page system doesn't change the fact that the rulebook is 310 pages, and you'll have to slog through a good chunk of that to be able to run the game.

>>55370039
>I also dispute the idea that it's easy to learn. Just because it should be a 12 page system doesn't change the fact that the rulebook is 310 pages, and you'll have to slog through a good chunk of that to be able to run the game.
It's also a lot harder to pick out good aspects that will ensure fun play than people give it credit for. New players in particular have a much harder time of coming up with a good list of qualities for a character to have from thin air than they do selecting from a curated list.

>>55368529
All you really need at the absolute minimum to run a campaign is the deluxe hero's handbook. However, The Gamemaster's Guide and the Power Profiles are godsend levels of helpful for figuring how to construct certain powers or how to play villains and avoid players bursting them down.

And yes, d20herosrd is the website for 3e MnM rules

>>55350960
That's what's so nice about Hero System. It's designed specifically to have just about anything want be derived from the core books. The entire premise of GURPS is that you need to get the book for the campaign you want to run. The premise of Hero is that you don't.

So, what about Fuzion? Anybody got any experience or opinion he want's to share?
I've got the PDF and have it printed out, but never really looked into it.

>>55352891
Your central "flaw", or Trouble, is supposed to be virtually always bad and carry some storytelling momentum. "So beautiful that people go mad with jealousy" would be an AWFUL Trouble because it doesn't welcome good storytelling the way a Trouble should. Referencing it or Compelling it doesn't do anything to add interesting complications to a scene or campaign.
"Frustratingly Beautiful" could be a good GENERAL Aspect, with both positive and negative applications that shore up other interactions, but it just doesn't define a character the same way that a High Concept or Trouble are supposed to.

If you made it something like Snow White's Trouble, where she was under considerable (and setting-referencing/enforcing) threat because of it, that'd be a different matter. It would also be something like "Target of the Vain Queen's Wrath" and not "Too Beautiful".

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>>55370744
>>55361895
Here, I'll back you guys up with a pair of troves. Hero is criminally underrated on /tg/.

> Hero System 6th Edition Trove
m3g4
#F!06Q2kY7I!r2JY-moVxFUGl90w6LDa2A

> Hero System 5th Edition Trove
m3g4
#F!Ym5RHIJL! Qk1NgisxONlZbCQdbNYBZg

>>55370095
>>55370039
>>55368499
I agree. But that's what's great about it. It is light, easy to teach, pretty easy to learn enough to get started, but difficult to master. If you read the core book and toolkit, and practice, you'll have command over a seriously powerful system.

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I exclusively play Fate and GURPS, so I guess that I am in the clear. I have personally never seen the master of none fallacy to carry any weight, as there are plenty of systems dedicated to a setting that suck. Looking forward to see how FFG's new system will hold up.

>>55362620
GURPS. Combat and general resolution is quick, and character creation is easy with the provided templates.

>>55363284
Yes, but the supplement should still work with 4E.

>>55370820
First of, that's not what troubles are. In the rules it is stated that virtually all aspects should be doubled edged. Even troubles should be this way. "Too strong for his own good" is a perfect trouble. It's Lennie's trouble, it literally both made him and killed him in the end.

"Too beautiful for her own good" is literally the same. It empowers her and endangers her. It complicates the story in interesting ways over and over. Jealousy and love is an extremely powerful and dangerous emotion to instill out your control. It's perfect.

>>55334065
It's like playing games where the fluff and crunch of things actually fit together properly. What, did you think there were literally no other systems besides generic systems and D&D?

>Not using the system you pefer and listening to biazed opionions of /TG/
You are truely the normie.

>>55371136
Yes, a true generic system. You're a gentleman and a scholar.

>>55371624
But it's not generic, Anon. That's like saying d20 is generic because it's the basis for both modern and fantasy setting games. Having books full of content that you want isn't the same as a system that can do anything. It's just a system with a lot of splats.

>>55372542
I was talking more about GURPS being universal rather than being anything else. If you don't like templates you don't have to use them.

>>55370744
>The entire premise of GURPS is that you need to get the book for the campaign you want to run.
Is this further proof that Hero fans are stuck in the 1990s?

>>55373109
It depends on whether or not being such in the 90s has a tangible meaning, and then on whether or not appreciating an actually generic system, capable of anything with just two books, divorced from fluff, is part of that tangible meaning. Under those circumstances, it would be proof that I might be "stuck in the 90s", but not Hero System players in general. If that were true, I wouldn't be ashamed of being "stuck in the 90s", unless that term carried a payload of other totally disparate implications from the one that I might like actually good generic RPGs, in which case I might say I yet do not qualify, depending on the precise natures of the stray implications.

>>55350584
Are there more of these?

>>55373109
This. 90% of what you would ever want to do with 4E is in the Core Set, GURPS Lite even.

>>55374729
What are all the sourcebooks for then?

>>55374748
A lot of them are just advice for how to run a campaign in a setting, with perhaps a couple of stat blocks. For example GURPS Crusades is just a couple historians writing about the era and offering general adventure hooks and ideas. It also happens to have a couple of templates included as a bonus, which can be neat if you want to run a Templar Knight character and want an easy place to start.

>>55374748
This question goes to Hero too now that I think of it.

> Do anything with these two books
> Here's a bunch of sourcebooks

Wut

>>55360215
>>55360481

More on EABA

Stats are generally in the 2d-3d range for most characters, with up to 4d possible for characters who specialize or are built with more points. (The game is scalable from "low powered normals" to "superheroes"). Skills above two dice aren't common outside of the higher levels, though characters can get a specialization in any skill for an additional d6.

Because one only takes the "Best of Three" (with a possible +2 added), difficulty ratings for tasks run from 1-20, with 11 being "challenging".

Things outside the character alter the difficulty of a task, up or down. Range, visibility, equipment quality, whatever. Things inside the character alter the number of dice rolled (wounds, conditions, knacks, bonuses, powers, etc).

One of the most interesting things about the system is that there is a chart that can be used to scale things. One single chart with entries for range, time, and other effects. Need the negative modifier for a range in combat. It's in the chart. Need how much a given strength can lift. It's in the chart. Need a modifier for extra time...yep, n the chart. It can also be used for other things. How long does it take a character to read a book? Take their intelligence, move up or down the chart based on how many pages it has, cross reference to a time unit. How far can a character throw something? take his strength, the weight of the item, cross reference for range.

It's pretty ingenious

>>55376803
Are there any supplements for EABA V2? I remember really digging it when I read through the first time, but found it difficult to imagine running supers in it (as an example); there are very few gear entries, setting/genre dials (though they do include some good realism vs. cinematic stuff), powers, basically *examples* of what you can build and how to do that.

At least from what I remember. I also remember the forum for it being kinda dead for learning purposes. It would be great if some of this stuff were addressed, I'd feel like I could go back and play around without worrying as much about doing everything wrong.

>>55361240
BRAP posters not welcome

>>55376803

No classes. No levels. Just stats, skills, and powers.

The powers section is pretty expansive, and like all generic systems, can be tooled to the genre. Varous game worlds have been produced by BTRC, some of which are very good.

There is also a supplement called "Stuff" with which you can build anything from weapons to vehicles, to animals, alien races, and even civilizations.

I ran a campaign in the Warpworld milieu (Apocalyptic. Suddenly most technology stops working and the old gods return.) which went very well.

I also ran two campaigns in the Timelords milieu (Time travel...obviously) which are probably the groups favorite games. The campaigns are often quoted and reminisced about.

I used the system to run a Cybergen Game (The old post-cyberpunk game by R Talisorian). We didn't like the original system for the milieu, so I ported it out to EABA and it worked very well.

I used EABA to run Star Wars as well. The campaign didn;t last long due to other factors, but the system handled the milieu well enough.

I'm currently in the planning stages of a supers campaign using the system, and I image it will work very well. (Though perhaps a little more lethal than most super games)

>>55376873

Honestly, I'm still using the old version of EABA. I haven't picked up V2 yet, so I don't know much about it. Frm what I understand, all the core rules are the same, with a few minor tweaks here and there. I know there is a sci-fi worldbook and a remake of Corps, a conspiracy game Porter originally put out back in the 90's. (Which was excellent, by the way)

A quick look at their website shows they have a new worldbook out for supers called "Eschaton" which sounds right up your alley. Min, too, it seems like, as I'm n the planning stages of a supers game.

Maybe it's about time I go pick up V2...

>>55377006
Neat, thanks for the info. Might be the right time for me to get into it.

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>>55374662
Yes, but you shouldn't expect much from them.

>>55377062
Oh shit yes, Eschaton looks awesome. Alright, I guess I'll take the plunge and have another go.

>>55377098
Oh my god. Back again. Just took a look at the weapon/vehicle builders and the "augmented" PDFs (which I did not have during my readthrough years ago), as well as some of the V1 setting books. This shit looks incredible. Glad you mentioned it.

Been looking for anything else to satisfy me besides GURPS lately (HERO didn't quite scratch my itch though I enjoyed reading it, Fate was a complete dead end, etc.), but I remember EABA v2 got damn close if it weren't for the lack of options and examples. I guess that exists in spades now, so I'm actually really psyched to try it out and see how it compares to GURPS in play.

>>55377317
>the weapon/vehicle builders
CORPS VDS and 3G3?

>>55377440
Yeah. CORPS is EABA v1-powered, correct? So in theory they should be pretty compatible.

>>55377478
P.S. It appears there is a 3G3 for EABA v2! It is in the folder packaged with the v2.01 enhanced PDF from drivethrurpg. It's a "0.1 draft" but appears fully functional, formatted, etc. and mainly "updates" 3G3 to v2 and 'modern' standards.

From the PDF preamble:
>This guide derives from that work and is pretty much “3G3 for EABA”, and we will refer to it as “E3G” for now. For the moment it is merely a long outline and a free document, but it may later be expanded into a supplement of its own or incorporated into a volume specific to use of the paranormal power system.

>>55377440
>>55377478

V1 EABA also has "Stuff", which gives guidelines for building just about anything, weapons, vehicles, even creatures and civilizations. I imagine it should be fully compatible with V2 as well.

>>55377478

Originally Corps had its own system, which was a scaled down version of the original Warpworld/Timelords/Spacetime games Porter designed (and which I still like as far as systems go. I've used it to run Cyberpunk before.)

The VDS was designed for the original CORPS, while 3G was designed for the other system. Though both can be scaled to each other.

"Stuff" was the V1 "build anything" supplement, though it seems V2 has some of its own build guidelines in it.

>>55362765
>SW is good for most things.
No. It's complete shit for anything that isn't lolzrandumb mook combat.

>>55378097

My group played a Slipsteam campaign with it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Though, admittedly, science fantasy / raygun gothic / pulp two-fisted action heroics are what it does best.

>>55377928
>EABA

What does it mean?

>>55334065
>2016+1
>using a system
>not just playing Russian Roulette in the backroom of a chinese restaurant

>>55378911
End all be all.

>2017
>Playing GURPS ever

>>55381653
What are you, a D&D player who can't branch out?

>current year
>playing game I dislike
>not playing the same way I play
Wow anons, you sure are faggots

>>55374827
They're not source books. Everything you need to know is really in 4-6 books, everything else is templates and advice.

>>55342640
I had that exact fucking realization and now I use M&M for all the shit I used to use D&D for

>>55382139
Not only you, there had been a post about this on GitP from like 10 years ago.

It's really just the realization that D&D is worse at some of its stated goals than generic systems tend to be.

>>55382257
>stated goals

You're not that moron who made up their own ideas about what the game promised just so that you can feel betrayed, are you?

Wait, you definitely are.

>>55384778
>made up their own ideas
More like read the PHB and DMG.

>>55385134
Name Graham's number thing the source books say it pretends to do that other systems (from a valid list I will not disclose) do better.
Come one, I'm waiting

>>55385134
You mean interpreted them in a bullshit fashion?
Go either get your head checked or your brain fucked.

>>55334065
>FATE
No, just no. It's only saving grace for me is that it doesn't suck as bad as Burning Wheel.
>GURPS
My weapon of choice. Used it a long time.
>Tri-Stat
Never tried this one so I don't have an opinion.
>Fudge
Even more of a build-your-own than GURPS, and I don't particularly like 3dF anyway, so no.
>HERO
Great for superheros, and I've used it.
>Savage Worlds
I don't like this one either, it just doesn't work for me. Seems to be an OK system in general but it isn't to my tastes.

>>55385165
Nigga what the fuck does this even say