Which plane is dislike most? Kamigawa, amonketh? Any other plane

>>55328031
To MaRo, Kamigawa is the most hated plane. Personally, I say Tarkir because fuck those dragons man. Fucking dragonfags ruining everything like usually.

>>55328031
Theros is probably the most disliked.

>>55328031

Rabiah

>>55328068
>Tfw theros is my favorite plane, next to Ravnica

I don't particularly hate any of the planes but my least favorite was kamongawa or whatever it was called.
My least favorite

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>>55328031

>shit i just can't stand

Anything Mirrodin
BFZ block
Amonkhet block
Kaladesh block
Shadows block
Kamigawa block
Dragon's Maze
Theros block
Khans block

>planes, sets or blocks i just love

Anything Lorwyn
Ravnica and RTR (minus Dragon's maze of course)
original Innistrad
Alara
original Zendikar
Time Spiral block
Mirage & Visions
motherfucking Torment

>>55328031
It's mostly personal stuff. Kamigawa overall probably due to how the mechanics are but the flavor is really cool and I love the spirits.

I hate Zendikar the most and Theros second most.

>>55328060
The first set was great. The second was alright, not bad though. Then the third one took a shit on everything.
The world building for the first set was amazing.

>>55328060

Don't blame dragonfags for Tarkir. Blame Wizards for not making the Dragons actually as interesting as the Khans, when they easily could have been.

>>55328222
>Lorwyn
I loved the art style and aesthetic so much.

Khans fell apart when it became MUH DRAGONS

Urza & Odyssey block were godtier.

Everything else is trash

>>55328031
Kamigawa is my favorite plane, and frankly i wish the design for sets had drifted in that direction.

Obviously the mechanics themselves were issues, overly parasitic while lacking pay-off, but i loved that the world felt more complete, while modern sets are vignettes of "interesting" locations.

I'm technically a newfag to the game (been around since RtR or original Innistrad, can't remember) but:
-fucking loved Ravnica
-Thought Theros was kinda cool
-Didn't care for Tarkir too much
-hated BFZ, though I feel like I would love the original Zendikar
-Shadows was kinda fun imo
-DESIGNATED AETHER STREETS
-WE WUZ ETERNALS N SHIET

Ulgrotha, because of the set it's associated with more than any lore flaw.

I never understood the hate for Kamigawa. Maybe the mechanics were iffy but I loved the tribes and the lore was GOAT.

Tarkir is probably my least favorite but only because it went from a cool plane full of martial artists and warriors and shamans and shit with fun color combos to being a shitty half-Ravnica full of MUH DRAGONS and the flavor went to hell

>>55328718
blame Sarkhan for that

>>55328031
Innistrad. It's just a bunch of Cthulhu horrors and >Muh Christians are EVIL

For me personally, it's by far Theros. The interesting thing about most MtG settings is that, for the most part, they are fairly unique across the whole of gaming. There really isn't a video game I can't think of that's set in essentially Mirrodin, for example. Theros and Innistrad, however, are the exceptions. Innistrad is Bloodborne, and Theros might as well be God of War or one of a billion other similar setting games. Innistrad at least has interesting sets to go with it.

Seriously, when Standard went to hell, I started playing with Faux-Standards using two nonadjacent blocks + Coreset/CSP combos. Literally the only interesting block to go with Theros was Kamigawa, and it's not the best block to go with CHK (OG Zendikar + CSP +CHK + your pick of core set with decent dual lands is just insane, but CHK just plays well with any block that has a decent mana base).

>>55328803
>Muh Christians are EVIL

Come again?

>>55329151
Innistrad predates Bloodborne anon.

>>55328432
Wrong. Wedge factions were interesting because they were new. Dual color factions are fine, nothing new, but fine. Dragons vs Khans is not the debate here. It's color philosophy

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>>55328222
>Forgetting Tempest
>FORGETTING INVASION

>>55328031
Alara and Kamigawa were my favorite planes.

Kaladesh was a pointless piece of garbage plane, as was Theros.

Kaladesh was bad because it's overly "Indian" and/or middle eastern without having any of the things that make those cultures interesting.

Theros was bad because it's just "Greece", but not. It's like they went down a life of classical Greece and added all of those things to MTG, with a very very slight twist.

>>55328097

I've never met anybody more pleb than you.

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I can't hate Theros purely because of Nyx-Fleece Ram. I just love it too much.

I personally hate Theros the most, I would have liked it much more if they just called the block "literally greek mythology" and unscrambled all the names.

>>55328031
Mercadia.

>>55328031
Do people just hate Amonkhet for the shoe-horned black people? Who cares? It's my favorite set lore-wise since Innistrad.

>>55331467
I would have liked Amonkhet more if Bolas wasn't involved and it didn't get all fucked up. I loved the Egypt theme and the zombies and mummies, and I really liked the gods before they all died. Also Samut is fucking awful and literally any other character in the set would have been a cooler planeswalker.

>>55328514
>muh rose-colored glasses
When you forget all the stupid and rediculous shit that happened back then the general outline is really fucking neat.
When you get down and dirty with the details, especially during the Weatherlight saga, shit gets reaaaaal weird.

DESIGNATED SHITTING AETHER was my least favorite.

>Kaladesh is building a Aether program!
>planepower by 2020!

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>>55331467
>it's a "I literally cannot fathom why people would dislike things I like so I'll just imply they're racist" episode

>>55332197
POO ON THE BLUE

>>55329151
>Innistrad is Bloodborne
you mean Bloodborne is Innistrad

>>55328031
I actually loved Theros. I thought the mechanics fit the worldbuilding incredibly well.

I've been playing since RtR, and I'd say none of the planes they've done since are as interesting. Of the ones I played, I hated Kaladesh the most.
>>55330969
Agreed. Based Ram earned me many packs at prerelease.

>>55328432
> They could have started with dragons ruling the place, spawned by Ugin corpse
> We could have seen Sarkhan having to get over his dragon fetish to do the right thing
> We could have seen the great beasts being slain one after the other the clans rise to power

>>55332333
>>Innistrad is Bloodborne
>you mean Bloodborne is Innistrad
You mean they are both Gothic Horror Lovecraftland (tm)

>All this hate for Kaladesh
Am I seriously the only one who loved the place? Steampunk is a guilty pleasure of mine I guess, but the mechanics were unique, the block was super fun in draft, and the story honestly wasn't THAT bad compared to what's been done lately.

>>55332620
>lately
There is literally one block between kala and the present. Why do people love to say the like the old shit more then the shit that is atound today?

>>55328031
New Innistrad was utter shit. Especially since I loved the first block so much. Tarkir bored me, as did Kaladesh.

Ravnica, and RtR were great. Theros had good flavor, but it seemed only skin deep. Like they had a concept but it didn't get fleshed out. Mirrodin and Planar Chaos were fun, too.

>>55330361
The Avacynian church appears nominally like medieval Catholicism. At least aesthetically. Cathars are even a real group of Christians, all be it heretics wiped out by the church proper ages ago. Regardless, it's a common trope, especially lately to go religion bashing. I just don't think it fits in this example since the church was corrupted from the outside and actually were mostly good before Emmy.

>>55332695
Lately as in most of the sets around it. Not exclusively what came after.

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>>55328031
Probably Kamigawa, even though it's one of my favorites. As far as my least favorite plane goes, probably Amonkhet. I really liked the idea of an Egypt plane, but they did exactly what I feared and put in the minimal amount of setting-building required since Bolas was just going to fuck shit up anyway. New Phyrexia was also a close contender.

>>55328088
This would be the correct answer, but no one hates Rabiah, they just pretend it doesn't exist.

>>55332174
Still better than the shit we have now, at least it was interesting, except maybe Mercadian Masques.

>>55332369
>You mean they are both Gothic Horror Lovecraftland (tm)

Innistrad didn't have Lovecraftian monsters until SOI. Been stated before that's not an integral part of the plane and will hardly be there the next time we visit

Kamigawa is liked only by patricians.

>>55328031
When Kamigawa came out I hate it, but with time it started to grow on me (even though the cards are awful).

I hated Kaladesh, it so... meh. It has nothing memorable to me, cards, mechanics, themes, characters, lore, etc. It's fucking boring.

>>55328031
I have a strong dislike of both Amonkhet and Kaladesh because they're both big examples of wasted potential. My favorite planes are Dominaria, Kamigawa, and Lorwyn because they actually feel like complete worlds and have a rich history and pretty nice worldbuilding. Time Spiral is best block though.

>>55331467
No, people hate Amonkhet because instead of a getting a plane with lots of rich Egyptian lore we get theme park Egypt that only exists to get fucked up in the second half. Amonkhet, Theros, and Kaladesh are the worst planes.

>>55332620
I personally don't care for steampunk and I would've preferred more Hindu mythological culture (though I can see why they didn't do it). However, the story really was that bad and it honestly makes me not ever want to see a return to Kaladesh. It doesn't help that it focused on 2 of my least favorite Gatewatch members (Chandra and Nissa) for a good chunk of it and it only showed us a part of the plane. Not to mention that any set that focuses more on Planeswalkers coming into the plane and following them almost exclusively is my biggest pet-peeve about more recent Magic writing. I want them to go back to focusing on the plane and its inhabitants.

>>55331945
>Also Samut is fucking awful and literally any other character in the set would have been a cooler planeswalker.
>tfw Hapatra will never planeswalk to Theros and learn from Pharika
Why even live

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>>55328031
I'll go against the grain here. I love Amonkhet. Limited is a blast; games are quick and punchy and the graveyard feels like a far more important resource. I don't play Standard, so I couldn't give a shit how it affected the current meta. The curse of wandering is cool, Bolas is a badass, white zombies that make sense, Cats, -1/-1 counters, etc.

>>55334941
>instead of a getting a plane with lots of rich Egyptian lore we get theme park Egypt
Not to be rude, but fuck you. When Theros was cemented in people's minds and when Kaladesh's poo-in-the-loo jokes were coming out, it seemed like all of /tg/ was lamenting that Wizards was doing a dull, paint-by-numbers style of worldbuilding cribbing too heavily from the real world to feel like an engaging fantasy world. Now they make a set that isn't just "Egypt: The Set" and everyone just keeps on moaning.

How many (you)s and greentext one-liners implying I have bad taste of am of low mind do you think I'll get with this one?

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>>55338103
>You are implicitly of bad taste and low mind.

Here, I started you off. No need to thank me.

>>55338103
Except they made an interesting plane with room to be developed and expanded and then they fucking destroyed it.

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>>55338271
I wouldn't count it over just yet.

Besides, we all knew that Hekma was coming down the moment we learned of it's existence.

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>>55338271
In fairness to that guy, they almost always introduce a radical change, if they don't outright destroy it: the convergence of Alara, the eldrazi in Zendikar, Avacyn's return in Innistrad, New Phyrexia, the Living Guildpact in Ravnica, etc.

Of course, on the other hand, Amonkhet was one of the most transparent examples we've gotten yet. The lore is sparse and often flimsy, though there are some interesting concepts. It seems pretty clear to me that Amonkhet was created primarily as an arena to showcase Bolas doing bad shit onscreen for people that started during (or after) Origins and have thus far only seen what is ostensibly the main antagonist being referenced briefly in dialogue. This conveniently allows Bolas to score a victory against the Gatewatch without actually producing any serious consequences in the settings the players actually care about. Bolas was entirely correct when he described Amonket as "a blighted, superstitious backworld of interest to no one who mattered," and unless they surprise me and his winning here has far-reaching consequences felt across the Multiverse (which seems doubtful), Amonkhet will have been nothing more than a cheap trick.

>>55332369
Dragons ruling over Tarkir was the best thing that happened. Most of the Clans were boring flavorwise, with the Dragonlords being fresh air

Best planes:
>Ravnica
>Dominaria
>Kamigawa
>Lorwyn
>Tarkir

Worst planes:
>Kaladesh
>Alara
>Ulgrotha
>Shandalar
>Amonkhet

>>55338572
Wished it would have stayed wedge, though.

>>55338549
I guess I just don't mind that Amonkhet is basically the Bolas dick-sucking plane. I like Bolas, and it's the first major appearance by him since Alara. Everyone was getting tired of the Gatewatch, so letting a fan-favorite legacy character trounce them all so soundly was refreshing. Also him using the curse of wandering and manipulating the plane into becoming his unstoppable army factory was neat and very in-character.

Although I don't know why Bolas himself was bad-mouthing the plane. "Of interest to no one who mattered." Well it seemed to be of interest to you, Bolas. Also I can't imagine a plane where everything always rises as a zombie not being of interest to black-aligned planeswalkers.

>>55328432
I blame Atarka and the R/B dragons.
They're just the worst, with nothing to offer anyone.

Honestly the only thing that bothered me about Kaladesh was how small it is.
Like the most important part about it is the city, with maybe a reference to the countryside. An Elf forest, and a mountain range no one can cross.

That's just so.... small.

>>55334878
Wasted potential is a good way to describe both of them. Reading the "Art of" books is kind of heartbreaking, because there's a bunch of cool lore and interesting setting ideas in there that were completely ignored for the sets. In Amonkhet's case, its because they rushed through everything to get to the Bolas-ing, but Kaladesh was just a mess.

I remember reading through the artbook the first time reading about the mining cities in Lathnu or the airship pirates across the open fields, or the eleven cities that led to the formation of Ghirapur, and just shaking my head in disappointment that they set the entire block in a single city for no reason.

>>55338955
I think they want to keep design space open for in case they want to return to the plane.

Ixalan is just the "new world" equivalent. There's a mainland where all the pirates, conquistadors, and vampires are from, but we won't see it at all in the set itself.

>>55338955
Well the Kaladesh story line was all about the Inventor's Fair.

>>55339045
which was stupid in itself. They should have focused in the conflict in the (white) Consulate with the (red) Renegades, but they just had to put Jace& friends in

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Eldritch Moon Innistrad

>we have this cool horror world that was really well received
>what should we do next with it
>HEY GUYS, IT'S A-ME, MARO
>WE JUST HAD AN ELDRAZI SET SO LET'S JUST DO THAT AGAIN
>okay, should we do things subtle, or just spoil everything at once
>UH
>HMM
>LET'S SPOIL EVERYTHING ON ACCIDENT, THEN KEEP PRETENDING EVERYONE HASN'T FIGURED IT OUT
>oh, thanks Maro
>should we keep the horror references?
>NO, WHY WOULD WE DO THAT, YOU'RE DEMOTED TO WORKING ON PUZZLE QUEST
>who should we add as planeswalkers?
>THE GATEWATCH OF COURSE
>IF YOU NEED ME, I'LL BE IN MY ECHO CHAMBER

>>55338572
>Dragons ruling over Tarkir was the best thing that happened.
Lies. When you look at the loss of culture and things the transition from Khans to Dragons is just awful. In fact I'd say only two clans came out relatively okay; the Dromoka and Ojutai.

Or could you explain to me how going from Temur to Atarka is a positive?

Kamigawa is the contrarians' pick. The mechanics have such shitty design.

>>55338659
What's wrong with Shandalar other than that it kinda just exists?

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>>55338907
That's how it has been since Innistrad. Planes are at the size of a small continent or a large island. Innistrad is just four provinces floating in sea of eldritch and Theros' world is literally flat. Ironically, Kaladesh actually has an excuse with its story being contained in a single city (it was a shitty story but still), as does Amonkhet.

So at least they are making creative excuses for not having larger worlds. Ixalan is actually an upstage from that what's with its ocean crossing. That and Conquistadors make everything automaticly awe-worthy

>>55339452
Innistrad actually has multiple continents, according to WotC, but you'd be forgiven for not knowing this since they seem to believe that 1 Setting = 1 Block, so this has never been mentioned in the lore proper. They're just holding out for the inevitable Innistrad exploration set a few years from now, I guess.

Kamigawa was a pretty fucking sick ass plane. The sets had problems but the setting was cool. The problem with Amonkhet is while people wanted an Egypt plane, it was just a safe boring magical ancient Egypt.

I'd say my most disliked is Kaladesh. The city is cool but we didn't really get to see much of what goes on outside of the city.

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>>55339149
This to be honest
Everyone complains about Tarkir but glosses this over like it's nothing. (It isn't as horrible tier of planeshredding but still)

>>55339452
But Theros, Innistrad and some of the other planes at least have the illusion of size with different cities/towns with their own distinct look and culture.
Amonkhet might seem small, but that's only because it has been whittled down to the one city by Bolas. If there ever was a Return I imagine the plane would be "bigger" with a bunch of cities that have somehow managed to overcome the desert.

>>55332333
>You mean Bloodborne is Innistrad
They are equivalent statements. Not to mention, both of them leech from the same source material.

>>55328031
All planes after Lorwyn are mediocre to shit. Personally I'd say Innistrad is the absolute worst but Tarkir and Kaladesh are damn close.

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>>55338809
Well, I consider them the only "dragon" clan.
If you read the Dragonlord Ojutai card without knowing is about an Elder Dragon, it could pass as Monk Spirit or other plausible types without problem; when I read about the Dragonlord Atarka I can realize we are talking about a dragon

>>55340426
Your views on dragon-kind are extremely limiting.

>>55340637
To be fair, Tarkir's flavor is absolute shit, dragons and humans alike.

>>55328031
Amonkhet is unironically the shittiest plane from its introduction. Zendikar post-eldrazi rape is worse though.

Kamigawa and Lorwyn/Shadowmoor are the most flavorful and therefore best planes.

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>>55340637
I think you have misunderstood what I meant and probably the expression
>Well, I consider them the only "dragon" clan
was misleading.

It not that I do not acknowledged the other types of dragons in general, I loved the depiction of Silumgar of the greedy and selfish dragon as much I liked the Atarka or dragons in other media like pic related.

What I meant was that the Atarka and the Kolaghan are, from my point of view, the more "draconic" (if you let me pass the term), and that considering them worthless is wrong because they represent the Bestial sides of what is a "Dragon".

>>55334042

Honestly, not sure what there is to return too. It was one of the few planes where white Mana, the church, and angels were for the most part good. Sure, things were rough for humanity, but if you enjoyed horror, underdogs, and fairly clear good and evil, Innistrad was the place. (Doesnt hurt to have an unreasonable appreciation for angels in general).

Now the church went nuts and the angels were slaughtered almost as hard as the people's faith in them. I may be a but cynical, but I suspect if we do return humanity will have gone full fedora. Not against that theme in and iff itself. White has more than enough room for atheism and virtue based on ideals. Just not Innistrad.

>>55340204
Why not, I imagine that new cultures would have also developed from the event. There are probably some who still believe in Bolas as a god and others that don't anymore. Inevitably they would fight.

>>55328031
I liked Amonkhet a lot, I know it wasn't a real egyptian plane, but the reception for it was good enough that I think we will go back and that's when it can be more egyptian focused.

Didn't kamigawa almost kill magic based on how poorly it sold?

If I had to choose a plane to hate it would be probably Kaladesh, the setting just didn't click with me.

>>55343458
The humans converted over to Sigarda as the new main angel. I imagine the humans are now divided over the former church and the new sigardians.

>>55343596
True, but it's different enough to have lost it's appeal for me. She's a W/G angel, which was fine as part trinity if colors, it Avacyn as mono white. (I actually really loved the flavor of each angelflight having it's unique color and place in the religious order).

But I don't see Sigarda bringing back the medieval church feel, or even if a W/G angel could.

And you see the shift from religion to idiology quite clearly with Thalia. She's stopped worshiping the angels, and Avacyn, and instead fights for their ideals.

I don't think Sigarda can or will bring back faithful devotion. At best, she'll serve as a powerful Ally and living ideal to humanity, but the church on Innistrad is likely dead.

I mean, what would happen in Italy if the Pope and 3/4 of his bishops went nuts and started slaughtering people. Kinda the end of Catholicism.

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>>55343724
No they already did convert. Though the facet I agree with you is that Sigarda is definitely weaker than Avacyn and will most likely not be able to be as succesful as Avacyn. People however held on to their faith while Avacyn was gone (and her powers) so I doubt that they would give up their faith even if Sigarda is not as great as Avacyn.

>>55328031
Punjabi land was pretty shit

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>>55343815

This card with Thalia is what I was getting at, but your point is well taken. I did forget about Sigardian Priest and that portion of the faithful shifting over.

I would even take a weaker version of Avacyn, or any other angel, who was at least mono White. My main objection to Sigarda is that she is WG, and any church based around her would most likely not have the same medieval Catholic feel that Avacyn brought with her church.

Still, in that vain, I could see WTC going full Not!Protestant Reformation and turning Thalia into Not!Luther.

Regardless, I'll hold out hope that they'll restore what I loved about Innistrad to begin with, high medieval horror fantasy with a mostly good church and some kick ass angels.

And I appreciate the feedback.

>>55328031
I don't like Lorwyn and that other one that is also Lorwyn, but with another name.

>>55344397
You mean Lorwyn's grimdark alter ego, Shadowmoor?

>>55338955
>>55339022
>>55339141
You know what they could have done to make Kaladesh more interesting? Have Tezzeret's planar-gate location be somewhere outside of Ghirapur.
I mean, it make sense right? If the city is beset with rebels, you want to keep your secret things outside of it. Put it at Lathnu (Where they could even have a whole subplot of the renegades finding increasing shipments of materials up into the mountains, and finding Tezzeret due to it) and then give us a reason to see more of the plane besides fucking Ghirapur. Throw in some actual proper adventuring for once. Even create some drama when the Gatewatch has to leave the rebels to go after Tezz and the rebels think they're abandoning them since they don't see Tezzeret's plan as as big a problem as the crackdown. Have airship rides with the pirates, following trains and shit through the Coil, all kinds of stuff.

Fuck, Kaladesh makes me mad for how badly it's handled.

>>55332369
That doesn't work as one of the first things we knew about Sarkhan was that he came from a plane where dragons were extinct.

>>55330361
Did you not follow the Innistrad storyline at all?

The Avacynian Church were literally black magic devil-worshippers this whole time. Half of them are insane inquisitors who purge entire villages of human life to sacrifice to angels, the other half sacrifice human life to devils. Only the "Protestants" fight against the evil of the church by denying the sanctity of the mother church and killing the Avacynian Pope. And they only win by abandoning their faith and killing their godhead, Avacyn.

>>55344709
Not all of them, just several of the bishops and cardinals. None of the Lunarchs were, and there's nothing to imply that the lower echelons had turned either.

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>>55344821

I think it's pretty clear most of the clergy were corrupted, including the Not!Cardinals, the Lunarchs.

1/2

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>>55344821
So I think >>55344709 has a point, all be it, put rather bluntly. I think they;re moving Innistrad towards a Reformation type theme under Sigarda which will most likely include themes of secularization and diminished clergy, church, and ritual. Which I think would have been fine, or even interesting, on other planes, but not Innistrad.

>>55345247
Well the problem is that Innistrad was meant to be a specific time and place: a Gothic setting where humans struggle to survive amidst the darkness. And getting rid of that in favor of "modernizing" Innistrad to be more like modern America just makes it much less interesting.

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>>55345213
We have no reason to believe Mikaeus (at least pre-reanimation) or his successors were corrupt up until the establishment of the Lunarch Council, which was just a panel of said corrupt bishops that took power after the deaths of two or three Lunarchs in rapid succession and were working for Ormendahl.

>>55345247
While I agree with both of you that this is the direction they're going to push Innistrad's story, there isn't some huge trend that we've been shown in the setting proper, Wizards is just predictable.

We know that there were vague hints of corruption in the church, saw one named traitor in the original block, and then in the second block we saw the treacherous elements take power after the death of the proper leader and give orders to a bunch of unknowing church soldiers. It's not as if every friar, vicar, and pastor was corrupted as anon seems to be saying.

>>55345272
A reformation could be interesting if WotC wasn't writing it, but alas, here we are.

>>55345380
>It's not as if every friar, vicar, and pastor was corrupted as anon seems to be saying.
Except it is. Because the source of their spiritual power was corrupted and it drenched their souls in the corruption of the tainted Avacyn. They are actually spiritually corrupt.

>>55345272
I think it'd be interesting if it blows up in their face and makes shit even worse

>>55345404
[Citation needed]?

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>>55344397

>>55343724
Honestly depends on the people getting slaughtered
Though it's not like there haven't been multiple popes at the same time before. That was somewhat common in the middle ages, especially towards the tail end.
Usually happened in france IIRC

>>55345456
What do you think happened to the Angels? Or how so many of the clergy went along with the crusades and purges, and only the minor Order of St. Traft fought against Avacyn?

>>55345646
I think many of the inhabitants were corrupted by Emrakul's presence because that was the entire plot of the Shadows Over Innistrad block and Avacyn was just another victim of that corruption. I don't know where this idea that Avacyn's corruption created some kind of spiritual backlash that hit everyone else in her church but the Order of St. Traft. Sounds like headcanon to me.

>>55328222
>liked RtR
>but not SoI

How can one man have such shit taste?

>>55338103
My problem with Theros, Kaladesh, and Amonkhet is that all they were was a Greek, India, or Egypt coat of paint over a shitty background. It was literally just Egypt: The Set, but without any of the richer parts of Egyptian myth. Theros was pop-Greek without any kind of depth and Kaladesh didn't even bother to use Hindu inspiration. It was all shallow and drab. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

>>55345832
Kaladesh was sold as being indian steampunk plane but it was neither indian nor steampunk
Fucking tarkir was better india than Kaladesh

>>55339217
They purposelessly made it underpowered because they had just come out of Mirrodin which was a busted as fuck artifact set. They didn't just play it safe, they neutered the mechanics of the block. That being said, the flavor is top-tier.

>>55343570
>Didn't kamigawa almost kill magic based on how poorly it sold?
It was that combined with how overpowered Mirrodin was. They really jacked up the powerlevel there and tried to lower it tremendously to compensate. They already had players leaving in droves over Mirrodin and then they tried to fix it in the worst way possible by jacking up the costs and nerfing mechanics like Splice in Kamigawa.

>>55345850
The only Indian thing about it was brown people and some vaguely Hindu filigree on the machines and architecture. Kaladesh was a massive blunder in terms of creativity.

>>55345947
Also, one of the flagship planeswalker from that plane's cards had them at peak whiteness. Seriously, that planeswalker deck chandra is the literal whitest person they've ever had in magic. Even including the kor

>>55345380

True enough, it certainly isn't all. My pardons if I didn't make that clear. My position was that the Avacynian Church was largely uncorrupt (for various reasons, including it really could not afford to be with demons knocking on the door) and I liked that it was largely uncorrupt. Further, that I think the emphasis has shifted to largely corrupt and/or zealatous post Emmy.

Though I understand there is soon wiggle room as to the exact extent, I think this is the direction they are heading.

>>55345272
This nailed my thoughts. Thank you.

>>55345598
That's fair. Though I think in this case, it's a bit more. There's only one Pope and you only ever expected there to be one Pope. The church revolves not around the papacy as an institution, but rather that one immortal demon slaying Pope. Then the Pope goes nuts. And so do the cult of saints (angels). And far too many of the clergy are knocking on your door with torches.

(But yeah, didn't pay to be a peasant).

>>55345722
It's from the overall feel of the set. Anyone still loyal to the old church is portrayed as a fanatic or corrupt in some fashion. The not insane are branded heretics and join up with Thalia and Sigarda.

This seems the right place to ask. What kind of plane do you want to see next?

I can't wait for a Roman plane or a proper indian mythology themed plane.

>>55346167
I want Pyrulea, damnit
It's been over a decade since it was teased in Future Sight and we've heard nothing else about it

>>55346167
Roman would be a lot of fun if they didn't botch it.

>Multi nation plane
>Green druids of Not!Brittain
>East/West split, maybe WU for Byzantines and mono W for Rome proper
>RG Germanic barbarians
>WB Islamic hoards

Or set it in the Republic era against the carthegenians.

>>55346167
I want a plane that isn't [mythology]/[culture]/[theme] world. Is it so much to fucking ask for something that isn't just another planet of hats?

>>55346308
What's Pyrulea?

I stopped playing at Ice Age. What is all this?

>>55338659
>First mention of Dominaria
guys..... i thought i knew you....

>>55347038
Why would Dominaria be mentioned in a Worst Planes thread? Dominaria is objectively the best. It's got enough lore and history to drown an ogre in. We've had some great one-off planes like Lorwyn and Kamigawa but there's just no competition.

>>55346861
It's a plane that's a giant shell of earth around a sun, and it's covered in fucking enormous plants. It's also where Dyfed showed Yawgmoth planeswalking. That's all we know about it.

>>55328031
Maybe the new Airbus coming out soon, with a "standing concept" economy cabin where you're essentially strapped to a wall.

The new Boeing 787 could have been good, except it was designed for 8 seats a row. Airlines, not wanting to lose profit, chose instead to install the existing layout of 9 seats per row, meaning narrower corridors and less elbow room.

>>55345850
Khaladesh was fine, it didn't have to "be" some super loyal depiction of India. Khans was great, i liked the time warp, but the dragons were boring. Theros felt throttled by source material because specific myths were squeezed into individual cards. Still pretty comfy. Kamigawa was fine as a setting, it just had the absolute worst mana costs and pointless legendary theme.

I feel like everyone in this thread is going to hate Ixilan


Anyways,
Worst plane is Serra (heavenly Mary Sue snooze-fest)

Best plane is obviously Dominaria

Man I miss Rath

>>55348486
I'm tentatively optimistic about Ixalan.

>>55345646
What of those aligned to Sigarda?

>>55347178
most posts have been
>best
>worst
lists, forgot it was a "worst" thread

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FULCRUM OF THE MULTIVERSE TIER
Dominaria

ELDER DRAGON LEGEND TIER
Lorwyn
Kamigawa
OG Phyrexia

LEGEND TIER
Rath
Mercadia
Ulgrotha

PRETTY OK TIER
Alara
Rabiah

MEH TIER
Theros
Serra's Realm

RETROACTIVELY RUINED TIER
Mirrodin
Ravnica

ACTUAL GARBAGE TIER
Zendikar
Innistrad

YOU'RE NOT EVEN TRYING ANYMORE TIER
Tarkir
Kaladesh
Amonkhet
Ixalan???

>>55349360
Ixalan seems okay, they didn't go full MUH EVAL CHURCH this time

>Good tier
All of them.

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Kaladesh is possibly the worst possible plane as far as I'm concerned. When everything is sparkly and shiny and gold and covered in filigree and blinky lights, it all just fades into a pointless layer of background noise.

Also, it capitalizes on that thematic idea of "making the fantastic mundane in order to emphasize how fantastic it is" that I've never quite been able to wrap my head around. If you take something special and do your best to make it common or even banal, there's not really going to be a recursive effect.

When you can buy a Rod of Wonder in every corner store in the nation or whip together a Magic Shoggoth Gun in 15 minutes and nobody gives a shit in-setting, you lose out on the wonder and magic and nobody has any reason to give a shit out of setting.

>>55348893
I love the idea that post-EMN there's actually a huge unspoken rift in the church over whether or not to keep the Avacynian iconography or switch to cleaving tightly to Sigarda as the primary worship figure considering she's the last living Archangel and really had humanity's best interests at heart the whole time even when other angels were off going full "WOOO, LETS GO FUCK UP SOME MORTALS, THEY PROBABLY DESERVE IT."

Buttercup best girl.

>>55332530
Not really Lovecraft, just Eldritch.
Needed more Eskimo Racism.

>>55349586
North star says you're sleepy.

>>55349559

With Avacyn unmade by Sorin, I'm no sure her symbols and iconography have any power anymore. Faith sustained the system before, but does the system even exist without her?

And it's not like Sorin can remake it in his new walker status.

>>55339149
>get into magic around the start of SOI
>get hype as fuck, love the set's setting and get some good fun out of investigate and delirium
>EMN comes out
>everything becomes purple noodles
>lose all interest immediately
>haven't bought anything that came out after SOI since, besides the C17 wizards deck
>stuck to building decks from older, more interesting sets than noodle god's wild ride, parasitic mechanic land, and WE WUZ: the wuzzening

PYRULEA FOR NEXT BLOCK OR RIOT

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>>55350176
>And it's not like Sorin can remake it in his new walker status
That and he's a wall.

>>55346167
>What kind of plane do you want to see next?
After all the plane sized disasters we got, I would like some creation. So a newly born plan where everything is new, or maybe not even fully made, could be a fun experiment and may explore a bit how the multiverse work.
Morph and manifest to represent free unstable mana randomly taking form, what will one day be legendary elder beings are still in their infancy (like a future old sage Treefolk who's still a adventurous sprout, a future tormenting arcdemon who's just a mischievous imp for now...).

Probably no civilisation yet, but maybe a Tamiyo trying to understand the multiverse: she saw the world ending eldrazi, what is at the other end of the chain, if anything? Or an Ugin, pondering on the multiverse while inadvertently creating legends about himself as he cruise the plane.

>>55350736
Holy shit yes

>>55350578
Fair.

>>55350736
That would be pretty awesome. I'd even be up for a return set thousands of years later so we can see what has developed.

>>55328031
Kaladesh

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>>55328534
>-DESIGNATED AETHER STREETS
underrated post

>>55350370
>Get into MtG with Magic Origins
>Nice, I get to see the story of 5 characters and cards coming from 5-10 planes
>Next come Return to Zendikar, featuring my favorite tribe on the DnD plane, pretty cool
>Then a horror mystery set on one of the best plane followed by the same plane getting turned into Cthulhu world with some new informations on my favorite tribe, that's great
>New plane, with a revolution story on a magic-as-science background. Aetherborn are a neet idea and Tezzeret is back. Mostly good things on Kaladesh
>Last released block is Amonkhet, ruled by the second best villain. Same as always, we don't know what the fuck Bolas want. Again, the fluff is pretty good

I have yet to see something that will push me to stop playing the game.
All planes were good, with neat ideas. Some mechanics were less interesting but I don't care, making a set is pretty hard anyway

>>55350370
>Noodle God's Wild Ride
Eldritch Moon, possibly Zendikar
>Parasitic Mechanic Land
Kaladesh? Zendikar?
>WE WUZ: the wuzzening
Amonkhet, Kaladesh?

>>55351605
>a revolution story
I'm with you on everythin except Kaladesh. Its art direction was amazing but its writing was abhorent. At every paragraph it felt like they were playing up to SJW's undiscovered cumminist urges.

>>55351645
He said he wasn't around for BfZ
So it's
>Eldritch Moon
>Kaladesh block
>Amonkhet block
Also, only one out of three complaints is true

>>55332620
It's annoying that they decided it was "the Indian plane" but then just made it generic steampunk. It just could have been so much more interesting.

>>55351823
Kaladesh wasn't supposed to be "the Indian plane", it was sold as "an Indian-aesthetic plane"

>>55338271
This is the problem with nu-Wizards worldbuilding. Everything except the Gatewatch has to be expendable so they can have big explosions to walk away from like badasses.

When the Brothers' War ruined Dominaria, we had...4? sets dealing more or less directly with the aftermath and it was the biggest historical event in the game. Now a plane gets radically broken in literally every block and then we're done with it until the Return To set, when it will basically just be a different place.

>>55345850
>Indians? You mean the people I went to engineering school with? Sure, let's make a set about them.

>>55346945
Shit, anon. It's all shit.

Kaledesh was just izzet/simic rehash, oh and no new phyrexia but here are cards that could have been but we cant fix infect: the set

Theros was just boring.

Mirrodin got me into the game, and I loved it even after completion.

>>55328031
Dislike
>Mercadia(bland)
>Theros(Don't care much for classic mythology)
>Amonkhet

On the fence
>Rath(it was kinda bland but was part of an interesting arc)
>Tarkir(Khans good dragons bad)
>Kaladesh(Liked the aesthetics but costume was all it had)+(Aetherborn are kinda cool)
>Zendikar(first Zendikar was cool world of high adventure then Jacestice League ruined it)
>Mirrodin(Fuck Mirrodin proper ALL HAIL PHYREXIA)
>Kamigawa

Liked
>Inistrad
>Ravnica
>Odyssey era Dominaria

>>553>>55328514
I so agree with that, you magnificent faggit. Urza-related stuff will always have a special place in my nihilistic heart.

Oh, and original Phyrexia too. Loved hating those guys.

>>55349360
Put khans tarkir in pretty okay tier, and dragons tarkir in you're not even trying anymore tier and it will be perfect imo.

I like Lorwyn and Phyrexia and New Phyrexia.

>>55351823
Do you get mad because Ravnica isn't The Slavic Plane but instead The Guild Plane?

>>55341575
Maybe, just maybe, it's because they contain the traditional color of dragons, which none of the other Tarkir dragons do.

>>55343570
>>55345921
No. It didn't do good things for Magic, but it wasn't 'near game killing' levels.
You're thinking of the one-two punch of Urza's Block and Masques Block, which had the same dynamic but even more exaggerated. If not for Invasion being, well, Invasion, Magic likely would have died.

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>>55344258
Kinda hard to fight for Avacyn when at that point Avacyn was going on a murderrampage.
Thus, Avacyn's ideals. The spirit of Avacyn, rather than the physical existence (which yeah, is kinda pointless now).
Everything was going bonkers due to outside influences, after all.

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I loved Lorwyn's Halloween tone grew over time.

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Anyone else see any decently made plane maps?

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>>55359509
Every Autumn I re-read the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor books and usually a lot of the associated lore. Even though they aren't stellar (the books were very clearly not thought through, considering they take a vacation from the plot for one, and the ending is a mess) they're super fun to read, and have a lot of cool stuff in them. They even help me get into the upcoming Halloween spirit.

Also they cement my realization that EMN had no idea how to do eldritch anything, as evidenced by this: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/seers-parables-2008-08-05

It burns
My brain
Oh heavens
How it burns.

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>>55360072
Pity the Innistrad one isn't actually canon, just made from vague suggestions about the actual size and shape of the country.

>>55360148

Are there any canon maps made by WotC?

>>55360169
That one of Otaria is, and I think a few more of Dominaria have shown up in the past.

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>>55360202
There's also the new map of Ixalan which Wizards was going to post piece by piece as we explored it, but due to dumb coding, people grabbed the full map off the site fucking instantly.

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>>55360202
>https://mtg.gamepedia.com/media/mtg.gamepedia.com/0/03/Dominaria.jpg?version=b668844a46b75e9344535cdd32d5b75a
>https://mtg.gamepedia.com/media/mtg.gamepedia.com/d/df/Dominaria2.jpg?version=e59f74a062b7f3e995f7c2d107aa50f8
>https://mtg.gamepedia.com/media/mtg.gamepedia.com/9/93/Dominaria3.jpg?version=a504071509cb9eb91aafac1e5abba7ab

And have a Stronghold, while we're at it.

>>55328031
Kamigawa is hated for power level reasons. The plane iself is sweet as fuck and one of my personal favorites.

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>>55360072
Love the compass rose in that.

>>55359399
For sure. Considering the direction WotC took the story, no one but nuts and zealots could stick by Avacyn (which is my issue.) They ruined the plane as far as I am concerned.

We also know that faith in Avacyn held real power due to how Sorin made her. With her dead, I don't think that flow of faith into real power will work for Sigarda. That system was a creation of Sorin and I think it's fair to say its dead with the destruction of the Helvault and Avacyn.

Also, nice choice on the card.

>>55344709
Nigger that's not how the storyline of Innistrad went at all.

>>55360433
>We also know that faith in Avacyn held real power due to how Sorin made her. With her dead, I don't think that flow of faith into real power will work for Sigarda. That system was a creation of Sorin and I think it's fair to say its dead with the destruction of the Helvault and Avacyn.
On the one hand, your logic is sound based on what we've been told about Innistrad, but on the other hand I feel like "faith flows into real power" should just be one of the ways white magic just works, all the time.

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>>55361494
You're correct. Innistrad on its own has some kind of ambient belief-based magic. I'm thinking what Sorin did was concentrate it all into Avacyn, which is what made her church so powerful. Instead of little scraps of belief that did minor miracles of a million different flavors, all of the belief in Avacyn goes into one big resevoir of miracle-fueling power.

>>55328031
>tfw I like Kamigawa
>if we ever return the set would be full of anime references because muh pop culture and people being too stupid to try to understand all the lore
Are you ready for legendary Naruto card and badass samurai tribal support?

>>55361494

I'm.going to display my ignorance here. In the multiverse, can anyone become a mage, or only certain people? Basically, is the ability to manipulate Mana restricted to a certain few?

If so, then Sorin simply have everyone the capacity on Innistrad to be a "mage", cleric, banisher, exorcist, priest, cathar, etc. Or perhaps of anyone can indeed manipulate Mana his system gave them the ability to do outside their normal means.

All that said, I totally agree. If passions fuel red Mana, intellect fuels blue, etc, faith should be able to channel white as a general rule.

>>55343570

Mirrodin block put the game in a bad spot. However, the game had been doing well since Invasion, so the expectation going into Mirrodin was enough to make it the best selling set for a while (People don't want to admit something is bad when they want it to be good-especially if it was overpowered like Mirrodin.). It's kinda like music albums: An artist's best album is usually the one that came out before the best selling album; if the next ones don't sell nearly as well, it means the best seller was probably a bad album. Kamigawa, while not a high mark block, wouldn't have fared nearly as poorly if it were released at a time when the customer base was shaken. It just wasn't good enough to correct the errors of Mirrodin block-especially with how WotC buried their head in the sand about Affinity for as long as possible.

We're going to see a similar thing with BfZ sales for a while as WotC touts it as a good selling set.

>>55361669
Depends on the plane. Usually you have to be born with the aptitude for it, but on high magic planes like Ravnica, everyone can use a little bit of magic. Meanwhile on Kaladesh mages are so rare that they have secret police that track them down, and all the magical effects are done via artifacts. It's super dependent on where you are and how you learn.

>>55361669
Anyone can learn to be a spellcaster, but some people have a knack for it. Relative strength seems to be independent of source, but inclination/temperament are explicitly correlated to mana type.

My conception of belief/faith within MtG is that it's a subconscious aggregation of mana, that ends up taking forms appropriate to the belief structure(s) of the plane in question. I think the reason this is a minor influence on most planes is that people can't or won't "agree" often enough to produce god-level creatures; angels, demons and spirits are more likely, and since these beings are powerful but demonstrably killable/destructible, only rarely do they reach whatever threshold marks divinity. Once that occurs, it becomes much easier for other gods to condense. This is my headcanon for why only two planes have gods, and why those two have so many (comparatively).

In the case of Avacyn, this just means that Sorin designed her well (probable given the way he approaches things) and dumped an absolute shitton of mana into her (because he could and, well, why wouldn't you); more than goes into a 'naturally'-formed angel. As a super-angel, Avacyn proceeded to go out and kick ass, inspiring belief in her. Believing in Avacyn made her more powerful and empowered clerics who believed in her to perform magic, leading to greater and more widespread belief.

>>55362236
It feels like they're leaning more to the 'everyone can use some magic unless the plane says otherwise' nowadays, honestly, though that may just be the planes we've been seeing the past few years

>>55362298
Honestly, that's probably a safe bet. The methods of how to access the magic change, but the fact that everyone can use it unless stated otherwise stays the same.

>>55349447
They're literally vampires, my dude. Even given nuMagic's love of Twilight sparklepires such as the Markovs it's still pretty blatant.

>>55362236
>>55362298
>>55362325

Gotcha. That was the impression I had, but I'm also newer this this. (Started with tenth edition of all things).

>>55362267
It's an interesting head cannon to say the least. That works perfectly well to explain angels and white Mana Gods. Though I am curious as to why angels seem to crop up so much. Do people naturally imagine winged humans no matter the plane, or is there something about the angelic for that it is prone to emerge when white Mana concentrates? (I'm sorta going for a chicken or the egg thing, since after you've got one the residents of a plane now recognize the form.)

Additionally, in your head cannon, do the other colored gods form in the same aggregated bfaith fashion? So faith in orderly war brings about our spartan god on theros?

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Will people be happy if bolas came to kamigawa and blew it up with 2 nuclear mana explosions? Symbolic of nuclear bombs?

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>>55369527
>Being okay with using an entire block and development cycle for the sake of one insensitive joke
Yes, please.

>>55369668
>>55369527
If we're going insensitive let's have him import a foreign populace to Ixalan and make them farm Lotusfiber for him

But I guess that's the kind of insensitive that's not alright

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>>55367079
>head cannon

>>55369724
Nah, fuck it. I think that'd be hilarious. Though, how do you depict lazy and low IQ as part of a card? Violent is easy.

>>55369527
>Symbolic of nuclear bombs?
Don't explain your own joke.

>>55369869
Conditional Defender?

>>55369913
You are right, I change my mind shortly after but it was to late.

>>55328031
WKTC has said the most hated planes are

Ulgrotha
Mercadia
Kamigawa

in that order

>>55328534
That was 6 years ago.

You are an oldfag

>>55370369
>Started w/ Mirage

Christ, what am I, an ancientfag?

>>55370349
>all associated sets were low-power

Realky makes u think

i started with original innistrad

Innistrad was pretty awesome, ravnica aside from dragons maze was pretty awesome.

Theros sounded really cool with the first set, but the next two were dissapointing

khans was pretty cool, wish dragons was a bit better, but overall its better than theros was at least

bfz kinda sucked desu, after all the hype from the original zendi I was disappointed

SOI started out pretty cool, but emrakul was obvious and eldritch moon was a cop out and didn't utilize what made innistrad cool in the first place really well.

kaladesh was pretty neat, kept me in magic for another year

amonkhet was kinda meh, but bolas is aight i guess. I find it hard to care about him cause the plot was awful.

ixalan is shaping up to be pretty sweet. I'm excited to draft it at least.

>>55370482
Thats for aure a part, but a beloved flavor can salvage a plane even if the cards werent super insane.

For example, Theros is very well liked and wasnt sky high in power and Mirrodin was sky high power level amd they destroyed it.

>>55370882
To be fair, Mirrodin was always intended to become New Phyrexia.
It was inevitable and unstoppable.

>>55371611
>Dominaria get destroyed
>New Pirexia get destroyed
>Mirrodin is new Dominaria

>>55369921
>This creature only untaps during your untap step if you control a white creature with higher toughness and attack

>>55373526
Totally meant power