[Pathfinder] Dealing with Partie "training" without

They get the bonuses when they level up and take a level in monk or whatever to reflect their interest in those skills.
Otherwise they get nothing

This just screams powergaming, and if you enable it you are part of the problem.

>>55324004
It's not very realistic to train for months and not get gains though. You should be able to increase your strength to 18 over a year with fairly easy but consistent routine.

>>55324004
I don't run a combat heavy game, so powergaming isn't a huge problem, and I watch for it either way. I also don't like having a predetermined path, that is OOC. So having the organic progression based on what theyre exposed to is something I'm A OK with.

>>55324046
If you go by RAW, anything above 14 is super human. Ie you're special in some way, thats why you're so strong. Mundane training isn't going to increase it significantly above human (or elf or whatever) peak.

I can see adding a few skill points here and there. Maybe a situational bonus to strength checks for lifting or pushing or a feat that gives a very situational bonus in combat related to their specific types of training. But ability scores are significant increases, and should only be given out when the character reaches the level for it or something exceptional happens.

>>55324046
First off, ask your players to stop trying to grind for high stats like this is Princess Maker or some shit.
>Reading a book about alchemy is in character for someone who has points in craft:Alchemy, and if they don't have it as a class skill, I have no problem letting someone gain it as a class skill, and begin putting points in.
You can put points in things you don't have as class skills. You know.

If you trained that hard for that long you probably just got a level from it or take an appropriate feat, since that's what feats are supposed to represent. It just sounds like your players are just trying to power game their RP. That being said, letting somebody have some dumb shit like Improved Unarmed Strike or Endurance as a free RP feat won't break anything.

>>55324154
As written, no it isn't. 24 is described as being the "pinnacle" of brawn. Which fits mechanically speaking. A human with the warrior array can easily hit 20 STR or so in their life time with no magical assistance.

>>55324263
Do you know where I can find that, to validate?

>>55324154
Why in the world are you using Pathfinder, then? Pathfinder is the definition of a combat-heavy game with restricted character progression. Why aren't you playing Burning Wheel or something?

>>55323956
You could look at the retraining rules for something that almost applies.

The important bits are that it takes 8 hours, and you can't march (or ride, that's tiring too), adventure or make magic items on the same day. And even if the're traveling by cart or boat, you should give exhaustion and fatigue out like candy, especially when it seems likely a random encounter might appear. It also takes money, even if you do it by yourself, to the tune of 10xLevel gp per DAY, in addition to normal upkeep.

Add some multipliers to how long it takes based on them lacking a proper trainer, and trying to add more feats than they should have, it'll be pretty obvious why they aren't getting anything -- any training they did while traveling was just too light to gain that sort of benefit.

All that said, I would suggest granting them temporary use of teamwork feats. Nobody ever takes them otherwise, and it kinda makes sense to have them learn how to work together from sparring.

>>55324937
screen capping your comment. Super constructive thanks m8

>>55324046
Levels, experience points and a heap of other dnd-derived conceits aren't realistic, or trying to be realistic, but it is the mechanism by which characters learn and grow stronger in Pathfinder.

If you want a game where characters advance largely by training in downtime then playt a game that does that. They exist and they're good.

>>55325457
Like Runequest

>>55324469
Look up the ability scores on the PFSRD, it has a description of what various values mean up to around 28-30 or so.

>>55328099
To be fair, those descriptions are pretty useless.

Cha 24-25: Renowned for wit, personality, and/or looks
"wit, personality and/or looks" would be an alternate definition of what charisma is. Renowned is just being well-known for that thing. You could have a Cha 14 character who is renowned for their wit, personality and/or looks (especially in a small village, or an individual who gets around a lot) and you can have a Cha 25 character who is not at all renowned because they simply don't do things that would put them in the public eye.

The Strength ones are also pretty useless, because the descriptions are right next to the actual rules for performing the actions described, while the descriptions don't give any meaningful metrics for the things you can now mechanically do. 18 str is "Can break objects like wood with bare hands". That's a factor of your unarmed damage (with str does indeed affect) versus the hardness of the wood (5). However, a monk could clearly break wooden objects with a lower strength value. These descriptions are totally arbitrary.

>>55323956
Explain to your characters that a lot of their time is spent training, to be a level 3 paladin or whatever they are. They can't just ignore their normal practice and lifestyle to study alchemy. Thus if they want to learn alchemy they would be using the retraining rules

>>55324046
Then have the skills and stats they aren't training degrade.

>>55324150
>So having the organic progression based on what theyre exposed to is something I'm A OK with.
Disregard Pathfinder, play Runequest.

>>55328249
>That's a factor of your unarmed damage (with str does indeed affect) versus the hardness of the wood (5).
A strength check to break an object is different from unarmed attack.

>>55323956
Use retraining rules.

Always assume that the characters are at the maximum that they can achieve at their level. They have hit a plateau, so to say. Any extra training they do will eat into maintaining their other skills.

>>55331183
You can use either, actually. And if you're doing break checks, then you can just take 20 and do it at an even lower str.

>>55323956
You already fucked up by mentioning pathfinder. You're going to get a thousand answers about the mechanics of a very mechanical game. Pathfinder is not meant to operate outside of its rules for situations like this. Think of it like a board game that you make up as you go along. The rules are set in stone, it's the situations you dervish them in that change. If you monkey around with stats for something as arbitrary as training then you are going to break the game and end up with super characters who have everything as a class skill and have maxed every stat. In short, don't do this.

If you want to play a game that allows development outside of in game mechanics and you want it centered around the plot, use basic roleplay. It's light enough that the mechanics take a back seat bit robust enough that you don't feel like all of your stats are completely arbitrary. Have fun!