So would Pennywise The Clown from IT be any considerable threat

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>>55296040
Pennywise, or rather IT would absolutely *annihilate* a Grey Knight if one tried to fight it straight up. The Deadlights, IT's true form, *literally* view our universe as being naught but a tiny egg to It. Even -seeing- It's Deadlights, can result in your soul and mind being obliterated utterly. A plain-ass Grey Knight stands no chance against IT.

>>55296184
So how do a bunch of snot nosed kids defeat it? Through the power of friendship? I've never read the book or seen the movie.

>>55296184
So is Pennywise technically on the same power level as a Chaos God in that case?

>>55296208

By running a train on the girl of the group of course.

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>>55296240
>tfw invoke the power of Slaanesh to banish a spooky clown man

This is too many levels of heresy.

>>55296240
Lying /a/nimal

>>55296235
Yes. The only way the children could truly "defeat" IT was by calling upon the power of its benevolent opposite, the Turtle and later the ultimate god of the Stephen King metaverse, Gan.

>>55296208
>So how do a bunch of snot nosed kids defeat it?

Simple answer is they didn't

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>>55296304
Interesting. Another question of mine is why does something with such power decide to fuck around in some random town in the middle of Maine?

Boredom?

>>55296344
It exists outside our universe as a being even larger than it, the Deadlights. It however can manifest a much weaker physical form in this universe, which is the fear-eating clown monster depicted in the book. While this form can be defeated, it's implied that it's pretty much impossible to destroy IT's true form, especially as later books heavily imply that the Losers didn't manage to kill Pennywise off, at least not for good.

>>55296299

>What is the Ritual of Chud

True, it only seals It away, but the train is still run on ol' Bev.

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>>55296405
Huh. Spooky, Cosmic Horrors are always fun to learn about even if its not my personal cup of tea.

Thank you for the information kind anon.

>>55296344
As for why IT does its thing, it's too feed and gain strength by consuming the children, presumably to grow more and more so that it could eventually consume the entire universe. Its spider form is described as having laid several eggs, which the Losers themselves say they couldn't be sure if they managed to crush them all, which may be how its physical presence in our universe seems to persist as >>55296405 said

>>55296405
>which is the fear-eating clown monster
The Spider, you mean. Pennywise was just the mask it used to lure its victims.

>>55296498
Yes, I just said "clown monster" as it'd probably be easier to swallow for somebody unfamiliar with the book who only know about IT taking the form of a clown than revealing ti is also a spider.

>>55296344
>why does something with such power decide to fuck around in some random town in the middle of Maine?
Derry, Maine (or the place that would become Derry in several million years) was just the spot where It landed when It arrived on our level of the Tower.

For a long time there were only dinosaurs and other dumb animals around, and their fear was like drinking dishwater. After humans showed up, It definitely didn't have any reason to leave.

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>>55296479
Oh boy Mini Spider Clowns.

>>55296558
>this shit is also tied into the Tower as well

Well damn. I am learning a lot more about the King-verse than I planned but fuck it this is neat.

>>55296040

Probably not. It would just be another daemon.

IT's main power is a terrifying appearance. Grey Knights aren't brave - they're conditioned to have no fear whatsoever. Your typical Grey Knight may not win, but he'll just go all choppy-choppy even if it takes him centuries.

Remember, Alaric found a way to fuck up Ghargalouth, who was a demon that can best be described as 'an endless mountain of flesh and screaming faces'. The Warden of the Blade engaged in not one, but two, Dark Souls boss fights back-to-back.

>>55296633
It's a pretty interesting mythos, though I'm not surprised the movie adaptation sucked hard and why they're MOSTLY removing references to it in the It moves (there's a lot of Turtles in the new film, but the subject isn't addressed directly.)

Some things only work in text.

>>55296412
Stop lying, /a/nimal

>>55296663
Except IT isn't just another daemon, you could call it sphysical form that but its true nature is an endless DIMENSION that is larger than our entire universe, as >>55296184 and >>55296405 say. I'm a 40k fan but your wnak literally cannot let you whether this, especially as the second time the Loser's Club had to fight IT (whose psychioc turmoil as it was being wounded was enought o cause multiple spontaneous deaths both all across the planet and implied to be on OTHER planets at the same time) they literally had to get help from a God that is one of the greatest being in the entire Dark Tower mythos, which encompasses SEVERAL universes.

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>>55296633
Fun fact. Its implied that the only reason why Derry even exists, is because IT permits it's existence so that IT can feed off of the souls and fears of all the children there. The entire town is basically an extension of IT.

>>55296663
>basing your response off the watered down movies where the only key to defeating even its basic adaptations was The Power of Believe instead of needing to commune with deities that could squash the galaxy with their pinky finger.

According to IT's lore, the Turtle literally created our universe because it had a stomach cramp.

>>55296714

The Loser's Club didn't have Nemesis Force Weapons and psyker powers, either.

To be fair, 40K is the kind of plot where - sometimes - the demons aren't defeated by clever tactics or something out of the left-field. With the Grey Knights, sometimes the solution is simply "We get two squads of Purifiers, and then we kick his fucking teeth down his throat."

>>55296742
>The Loser's Club didn't have Nemesis Force Weapons and psyker powers, either.
Did you even read that post you linked to

The folks in Derry were only able to shut the door on this particular manifestation with the direct intervention of one of the primordial beings that oversees the entire multiverse. This is the Turtle of Enormous Girth, upon whose shell He holds the Earth. His thought is slow but always kind, he holds us all within his mind.

Can de lach, mi him en tow.

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>>55296714
>whose psychioc turmoil as it was being wounded was enought o cause multiple spontaneous deaths both all across the planet and implied to be on OTHER planets at the same time)
And despite all this, IT is still *vaaaaaaastly* weaker than It's lord and master, the Crimson King, whone true form (known as Dis) is the *entirety* of the Outer Dark itself, and may very well be the Prim as well, which is the primordial sea from which all demon-kind descended.

>>55296785

Again, it's really not that kind of story. The Crimson King was a total pussy, for example.

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>>55296742
>We get two squads of Purifiers, and then we kick his fucking teeth down his throat

This statement has caused me to wonder: what would Doomguy do if faced with IT?

>>55296827
That dork with the sneetches wasn't really the Crimson King, though. More of a toenail clipping of the real thing.

So from what I can tell, Grey knights could probably banish the manifestation, but that wouldn't stop it from
a: still existing back home
b: coming back later

And if the Grey Knights tried to fight it face to face, they would be destroyed so thoroughly that even calling them a thin paste wouldn't do it justice?

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>>55296827
>The Crimson King was a total pussy, for example.
Only because that specific avatar, Los, was running off of the half-mortal fleshbag equivalent to Windows Vista at the time. It did *not* expect the decay of the Tower to spread to even it's physical vessel.

>>55296877
Pretty much, yeah. They might be able to destroy It if they somehow destroyed the Dark Tower, but then all of creation would collapse back into the primordial soup of the Prim along with the GKs. Even then they might not destroy It.

>>55296742
At one point Pennywise turns into a number of flying leeches that literally eat somebody out of existence entirely. A basic GK is dead in the water the second it attempts to challenge IT in a battle, especially as merely gazing into ITs deadlights inflicts a fate that's mostly reserved for Horus in 40k fluff.

If you're not afraid of Pennywise, a child can beat him to death with a baseball bat (which is what pretty much happens)

Grey Knights are well-accustomed to mentally resist daemonic mind fuckery and space marines have no fear as it is. They'd give Pennywise 1 bolt to the head and that would be it

>>55296936
>didn't read lol

>>55296906
>>55296877

Technically, you can't destroy daemons. You can only banish them. The Grey Knights novels acknowledge that - for instance, after dealing with the Prince of a Thousand Faces, the ending has an Inquisitor note:

> "He'll be back in one thousand years, but we have his true name. We'll fuck his shit up."

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>>55296906
>They might be able to destroy It if they somehow destroyed the Dark Tower, but then all of creation would collapse back into the primordial soup of the Prim along with the GKs. Even then they might not destroy It.
If they *somehow* destroyed the Dark Tower, Dis and every other demon would be positively ecstatic, and would quickly begin to swarm over the ruins of Creation to devour it.

>>55296936
I know the new movie is good but I really hate how many people who don't even research the book lore it brings to Kingverse discussion.


>>55296805
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believed that while IT was made of the same pure hate and chaos that the Crimson King was made of, but that IT wasn't a direct servant, more driven by ITs own desire to consume and devour? I'm kind of a newbie to tower lore, so please clarify me if I'm wrong!

>>55296854
R I P
A N D
T E A R
THAT WHICH IS BIGGER THAN OUR UNIVERSE

>>55297061
YOUR GUTS ARE HUGE.

H U G E

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>>55297040
>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believed that while IT was made of the same pure hate and chaos that the Crimson King was made of, but that IT wasn't a direct servant, more driven by ITs own desire to consume and devour?
You are in fact, correct. IT wasn't a 'direct' servitude to Dis/the Red King, but seeing as the King is literally the Outer Dark itself, It was still a fragment of its essence all the same. IT was also still working towards the same goal of disrupting the flow of the Beams supporting the Tower, so it was indirectly serving Dis in a way.

>>55297099
Ah, that's what I thought! Thanks for the clarification.

>>55296935
Eh? Not much worse than most Daemon weaponry. A squad of Grey Knights can still cast a ritual of banishment, which we know works.

Yeah, IT's not dead, but neither are the scores of Daemons that the GK banish on a regular basis.

>>55296935

Oh, flying leeches. Whatever will power-armored Grey Knights do against flying leeches.

I get what you're saying, though. However, it's pretty clear that IT - like most daemons - can be injured and driven back. It's like the Daemon Primarchs, who are vast and all-powerful, but cannot bring that over when they actually manifest.

I mean, Angron appeared on Armaggeddon, and he was banished between several hundred Grey Knights got into a fistfight with him. Sure, it's not the most poetic solution, but a story that involved Grey Knights tends to conclude with "THEN WE SHOT EVERYONE".

>>55297174
The "ritual of banishment" that IT requires to be banished also requires consorting with either the Turtle or the Other, and forgive me for not believing that the GKs would be willing to consort with what they'd probably simply see as other Daemons. That being said, if they were willing to seek this aid they could definitely keep IT from consuming the 40K universe for a short time at least.

I do wonder how the fuck they'd react to learning about the rest of the towerverse and how the scope of their struggle is far, far grander than they thought.

>>55297199
>Oh, flying leeches. Whatever will power-armored Grey Knights do against flying leeches.
Flying leeches that quite literally erase anything they eat from reality. That's quite different from simple flying leeches.


IT can also FORCE you to gaze into the deadlights, which as has been stated multiple times before erases your soul horus-style.

>>55296738
So theoretically could IT be starved if Derry was wiped out? Or if that doesn't work the entire planet?

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>>55296976
Yeah, that's what I mean. The destruction of the Tower *might* somehow weaken It enough to be killed, but otherwise the Deadlights just get to hang out with the other pre-Prim entities and fight over rubble that includes small wisps of Grey Knights.

>>55297040
>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believed that while IT was made of the same pure hate and chaos that the Crimson King was made of, but that IT wasn't a direct servant, more driven by ITs own desire to consume and devour? I'm kind of a newbie to tower lore, so please clarify me if I'm wrong!
Not that guy, but you're not wrong. If you haven't read Insomnia yet, you will probably enjoy it because it's basically the story of some people who accidentally gets a glimpse of a few levels of the Tower.

I also suggest these stories if you want to read more about the various levels of the Tower and the methods of moving between them:

>Travellin' Jack Stories:
The Talisman
Black House

>Flagg Stories:
Eyes of the Dragon
The Man In the Black Suit

>Todash Stories
The Mist
Mrs. Todd's Shortcut

>Captain Trips Stories
The Stand
Night Surf

>Kill The Hat
From A Buick 8

>Bull Shit
Rose Madder

>Androids but not Andy-droids
Beachworld

>Can-Toi Stories
Everything's Eventual
The Ten O'Clock People

Probably forgetting some, so anyone else please feel free to add to this list.

>>55297247
Grey knights fight reality deleting shit all the time.
Yeah, the deadlights are gonna kill em though, but a squad all banishing at once should survive long enough to make it go away for a decade or two.

>>55297252
Perhaps that specific manifestation, but ITs Deadlights form does not need to feed like its physical form. To the Imperium as a whole, IT would quickly become one of those monsters they have to deal with regularly to prevent it from getting too strong, but can't really genuinely put down either - the real nightmare would be if its other manifestations landed in say, Tau space, or maybe an Eldar craftworld, someplace it'd be hard for the Imperium to reach and purge in time.

>>55297252
>So theoretically could IT be starved if Derry was wiped out? Or if that doesn't work the entire planet?
It would be like cutting a tentacle off of an octopus that has an infinite number of tentacles.

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>>55296854
>This statement has caused me to wonder: what would Doomguy do if faced with IT?
Pretty much the same thing ol' Tuska Daemonkilla would do.

Rip and tear it apart before krumpin' it out of our reality, and then follow it back home to keep killin' it because 'daemons iz good fer a foight!'. Gathering a WAAAAGH!!! of like-minded Orks before giving chase is optional/likely in Tuska's case of course. Which means instead of one Orky Doomguy, it'd be a million (minium) Orky Doomguys rip and tearing it apart at once.

>>55297337
This post gives you a comparative power level between the two settings, as in 40k a demon can be met in single combat by a loud stabby fungus.

>>55297263
As long as we're discussing The Towerverse, do you mind if I ask just how The Stand relates to The Dark Tower? I remember reading it back in High School and loving the divine vs. infernal feel to it, but now I'm hearing old Randal Flagg is actually a character that is linked with The Dark Tower series as well. Do the events in this book ever actually get referenced again over the other stories?

>>55297299
>>55297321
This is why I typically don't enjoy Cosmic Horrors as villains and enemies.

I personally find it more interesting if the thing has some kind of weakness. O well still neat topic to discuss.

>>55297337
>Tuska Daemonkilla and Doomguy meet in a bar and chum it up
>Hellscapes across hundreds of universes tremble in fear

>>55297357
I wouldn't say that absolutely, as we've tried to stress multiple times in this thread the only known example of IT being defeated requires help from a higher power, which is not usually the case for 40k Daemons, and once again you can't reach nor kill the Deadlights, it's a non-matter space and if you look at it your soul goes FOOSH. 40k may be strong but some of the things depicted in the Kingverse stomp to a hilarious degree. I'm pretty sure there's a character in Insomnia that can straight up decide to kill basically anyone whenever it wants because it's supposed to make sure people die on time, but then again I'm even more of a newb than >>55297040 and haven't read the book yet.

>>55297337
Tuska can't revive if his soul is annihilated by the deadlights, you dip. If that were the case Horus would be partying with the chaos gods in the warp right now.

>>55297379
>Do the events in this book ever actually get referenced again over the other stories?
Yes, Flagg has a very specific goal in mind, as sowing chaos and destruction on a global scale directly contributes to the weakening of the Beams which keep the Dark Tower standing. All the bad shit that bad entities do is more or less aimed at the goal of corroding the Beams to the point where they snap and everything goes tits-up for mortals.

What will actually happen if the Dark Tower falls is unknown even to said entities, but they're all pretty sure that they'll be able to ride the wave to ultimate power over creation.

>>55297434
So is Flagg actually backed by a Satanic power, or is he supernatural himself?

There was always a lot of shit about 'IT' that was completely retarded, but that fuckery pales in comparison to this 'KingVerse' shit that I'm listening to...

>All these people claling IT a Daemon
IT is more like a chaos god, given daemons in lore are more like tiny pieces of their chaos god. As such manifestations of IT like the Spider/Pennywise would be ITs daemons.

>>55297493
I can tell you more if you want, but I think you should read Eyes of the Dragon and then re-read The Stand instead.

>tfw just now realized that the deus ex machina in DT7 was also used in Slade

>>55297405
>Doomguy prepares to fuck shit up
>the forces of hell equip firearms and meet him in battle in an open prairie

>>55297546
Sounds fair enough man, thanks!

Was The Langoliers ever united with the rest of the Kingverse? Were they just bottom-feeder gribblies that cleaned up the shed skin cells of Creation?

>>55297513
>Can dish it out but can't take it
Why are 40k fans always like this when the primacy of their favored setting is challenged?

>>55297597
I doubt that would end well for the demons.

>>55297625
Oops, meant for >>55297507

>>55297620
>Were they just bottom-feeder gribblies that cleaned up the shed skin cells of Creation?
Pretty much, yeah. Those passengers just got unlucky and fell off the table onto the floor.

>>55297493
>So is Flagg actually backed by a Satanic power, or is he supernatural himself?
He's both backed by a Satanic power (The Outer Dark/Dis), as well as *being* a supernatural force himself (He is heavily implied to be a Mask of the Crawling Chaos). He once manifested as pic related, and plagued a town by corrupting their children to murder and debauchery.

>>55297631
Go play literally any DOOM game that has hitscan enemies and come back. Make sure you play past the first Episode at least.

>>55296040

So... Stephen King-verse. What order of things should I read?

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>>55297648
>He once manifested as pic related

>>55297656
Nah mate just rip and tear their shots and get into spicy CQC

>>55297507
Funny, I feel exactly the same way about 40k. The more I hear about it, the more retarded it gets.

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>>55297664
>>55297648
Shit, forgot image. I've been Flagged.

>>55297676
Thank you for confirming you haven't played The Plutonia Experiment yet and haven't had the pleasure of fighting Zombie Chaingunners without anything to take cover with. You probably ought to get on that.

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>>55297663
This list is pretty good for the most part.
>>55297263

>>55296805
>And despite all this, IT is still *vaaaaaaastly* weaker than It's lord and master, the Crimson King, whone true form (known as Dis) is the *entirety* of the Outer Dark itself, and may very well be the Prim as well, which is the primordial sea from which all demon-kind descended.
And yet when we finally see him in person, he just chucks grenades at the characters from a balcony. God DAMN the Dark Tower was disappointing

>>55297625

I'm not much of a 40k fanboy, I try to avoid partaking in fanboy-ism in general. But since you mention it your description of IT is coming off an awful lot like how Chaos fanboys talk about Chaos...

> Well, my guy is the most powerful, and transcends reality and time, so can't be beaten because he has already won, and even if he could be beaten he'd respawn in under a minute, then teleport behind you and snap your neck

It's all I can do to stop my eyes from rolling into the back of my skull...

>>55296663
>grey knights
>literally CAN'T be scared even if they wanted to
There's got to be a way for a clever demon/monster/eldritch whatever to use that against them.

>>55297757
>Well, my guy is the most powerful, and transcends reality and time, so can't be beaten because he has already won, and even if he could be beaten he'd respawn in under a minute, then teleport behind you and snap your neck
That's not really how IT is treated in its book, it's portrayed as an awful monster intended to be hated. I'd say that 40k suffers that syndrome more than Stephen King does given its recent wank about chaos being undefeatable and endless while also portraying it as cool and awesome. (Looking at you , ADB)

The Dark Tower's setting is simply a very grand scale, it's not really intended to be a powerlevel measuring contest but instead that's simply how strong the beings are within.

>>55297706
I was memeing hitscan enemies are the worst things in existence imo

>>55297786
>it's not really intended to be a powerlevel measuring contest

Bro. You're talking to 40k fans. Everything is a powerlevel measuring contest, all the time, with everything, forever. And they always have to win, or they throw a tantrum and have a grumpy dumpy.

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>>55297749
As I said, that was just the true Kings avatar, Los, who was running on the some very shitty fleshbag hardware. When the Tower started to decay, and breakdown, Los' host body started to breakdown as well because his mortal frame couldn't handle it.

What if you just dick IT into submission?

>>55297803
Oh, I understand that completely. That doesn't make the actual encounter, with the closest thing to the big bad of the entire dark towerverse, any less disappointing. There's a good REASON in-universe it's disappointing, sure, but that doesn't make it any less unsatisfying as a reader, you know? The Crimson King has been hyped up again and again, just really well built up as this world-shaking threat, and then the heroes finally confront him in the Dark Tower, and...well, ya know.

>>55297810
Unfortunately it's more likely he's going to dick you given his constant rape threats in the book (for the sake of "spicing" the children with fear and torment, of course)

>>55297430
>Tuska can't revive if his soul is annihilated by the deadlights, you dip
>Not understanding that Orks are constantly manifesting the 'WAAAGH!!! field' wherever they go
>said 'WAAAGH!! field' comes complete with Gork and Mork, Chaos God-tier entities
>'WAAAAGH!!! field' also has reality-warping powers
>Gork and Mork tell Tuska & co. they can look at Deadlights and kill them.
>Tuska & Orks believe this, overriding the Deadlights soul-killing ability through sheer (admittedly ridiculous) WAAAGH!!! power of belief
>Tuska & co. proceed to start wrecking as much shit as possible.
>Main drawbacks to this whole plot is IT is mostly blackness and Orks believe black to be "da 'ardest colah", plus it's a fucking DIMENSION (so: huge as fuck) meaning killing all of IT is going to take a looooong time.

Ork 'WAAAGH!!!' reality-warping bullshittery in action folks. Don't ever let them out of 40k, they'll break almost any other setting they come across with their "We believe it to be so therefore it is!" shenanigans.

>>55297810
Fuck an entire dimension? Go for it Slaanesh.

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>>55297663
>So... Stephen King-verse. What order of things should I read?

Tough question. Off the top of my head, I'd say:

The Shining
Carrie
Firestarter
The Gunslinger
The Stand
The Eyes of the Dragon
The Talisman
Needful Things
The Drawing of the Three
The Waste Lands
The Mist
Rose Madder
Wizard and Glass
The Little Sisters of Eluria
IT
Insomnia
Desperation/The Regulators (doesn't matter which one you read first, just that you read them both back to back)
From a Buick 8
Black House
The Wind Through the Keyhole

If you want to go out on a downer, finish off with Wolves of the Calla. The next two books in the DT series (Song of Susannah and The Dark Tower) are pretty hit and miss as far as quality goes, because they were written in haste after King got hit by a van and thought he might die before he got to finish the story. DT7 is pretty good throughout but has a terrible non-climax and an overall sense that the author is betraying the setting for a quick finish.

>>55297263
I should have put Everything's Eventual along with Firestarter and Carrie under "Breaker Stories".

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>>55297844
I hear ya Anon, but do remember that King pretty much rushed the last two books because he seriously thought he might die after his accident, thus the quality *dropped* massively, and several plot threads were just dropped utterly in his haste to finish the series.

>>55297911
Yeah. I just keep hoping he'll go back and finish it properly. I loved the series, and "The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed" is still my favorite opening line in all of fiction.

>>55297949
I kind of feel like the ending of DT7 kind of was an apology for the rush treatment, saying that the story wasn't truly over, even if he'll probably never finish it himself... but at least that wasn't the true end

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If you don't know, there are several versions of The Gunslinger, as King has revised the story a few times. This is from my First Signet Printing (1989) paperback. The Man in Black introduces himself and tells Roland about the Tower and who sits in the highest room.

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>>55298039

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>>55298058

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How does Cujo play into the KingVerse? Is a rabid St.Bernard actually a eldritch chaos god?

>yfw a doggo would obliterate the grey knights

>>55298113
It's implied he's possessed by the spirit of the killer fromt he Dead Zone but I simply prefer to interpret him as a kind animal ravaged by an all-too-real disease since it makes him much sadder, in my eyes.

>>55298147
>>55298113
>It's implied he's possessed by the spirit of the killer fromt he Dead Zone but I simply prefer to interpret him as a kind animal ravaged by an all-too-real disease since it makes him much sadder, in my eyes.

Nah, the killer from the Dead Zone is an unrelated spirit that's haunting a miniature door between worlds in that kid's bedroom.

>>55296877
>>55296877
>>55296877

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>>55298113
Kujo is just a poor doggos ravaged by a terrible, and malign disease that is far too-real disease that plagues most animals.

>>55298147
Doesn't the end of the book lament that Cuj was a good boy, who never wanted to hurt anyone?

>>55296040
IT, the Deadlights, has more in common with the Warp itself than it does with any daemon.

>>55296741
Gan created our universe when he rose from the waters of the Prim.

>>55296805
How? The Crimson King is a half-human mongrel.

>>55296805
>whone true form (known as Dis) is the *entirety* of the Outer Dark itself, and may very well be the Prim as well, which is the primordial sea from which all demon-kind descended

I know the Man in Black says that but he might be lying.

>>55296688
It happened. Steven King wrote a scene where a little girl has sex with little boys one after another, in a sewer, and her inner monologue describes how empowered she felt during it, and how the biggest boy gave her her first orgasm.

>>55298460
Yeah but he presents it in a really poignant way

>>55298460
>>55298490

Stop lying, /a/nimal

>>55298460
Sauce?

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>>55298402
>>55298425
Dis is actually mentioned by King himself (the in-universe version of Stephen), and it'seems made pretty clear that Dis is the force that promised Los that he would "get to rule over the Chaos following the Towers fall".

>>55298460
Don't forget that Bill (who fucks her right after Big-Dick Ben) gives her her second orgasm because he's such a great guy.

>>55298535
>>55298559
WHAT THE FUCK.

Its real?

Stephen King is truly /tv/ as fuck.

>>55298684
Was. Nowadays to say the least he's what a lot of people on this website would call "SJW."

>>55298684
I have the book right here open to that chapter but I'm not going to post it.

Go read it yourself, it's great.

>>55298695
Is the transdimensioanl SJW being more powerful than IT?

>>55298701
Does she suck at least one dick?

>>55298780
Go read it yourself, it's great.

>>55298780
Nope. Its somewhat vague and vanilla. How disappointing.

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>>55298870
>he read the abridged version

>>55298878
Nope. Full text and it was mostly about the emotions and kids awkwardly doing it along.

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>>55297620
The Langoliers were the "Janitors" of the cosmos. They cleaned up the scraps that fell in-between during the clash between good and evil, but had no true stake in the conflict themselves. They are pretty much the closest any of Kings monsters get to being 'Neutral'.

>>55297855
How does Rose Madder relate to the Dark Tower?

Have read both but read Rose Madder ages ago, did I miss something?

>>55296040
You just wanted a stealth King wanking thread outside /lit/ didn't you?

>>55299750
Does /lit/ even like King? Usually /lit/ hates anything that isn't non-fiction or Kite Runner

>>55297221

God Emperor might be enough. Saying 'the plot says it requires X' stops working so well when you throw in other stories.

>>55297777

That one grey knight got baited into fighting into the eye of chaos, trapping himself there since he'll never retreat.

>>55300255
Yup, that's the kind of thing I mean - it leaves you vulnerable to being baited into a trap. Not being able to feel fear is a weakness.

>>55296633

Every king book is tied to the tower.

wonder what shape the Crimon King's son has

>>55296184
Considering IT can be overcomed by sheer Human courage/faith & solidarity and the fact the Grey Knights are the strongest-willed Human Psykers/White-wielders in existence means IT stands as much chance as a daemon.

This is even before entities like the Turtle, the Emperor or even Gan comes to the picture.

>>55300399
>Considering IT can be overcomed by sheer Human courage/faith & solidarity

Expect to get shit on because thats not what happened

>>55300399

>considering IT can be overcome by child orgies,

>>55296945
Well, you can, but the amount of psychic energy required to obliterate a soul is pretty much only at the God level.

Or however Eisenhorn obliterated that one demon.

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>>55300462
That part seemed pretty lewd for my 15 year old self.

Now, I simply find it really silly.

>>55299717
It demonstrates that while the things from the outer dark are inhuman and dangerous, they aren't necessarily EVIL, just insane, and they can 'plug in' to other insane people. Once you are plugged in, it is a supreme effort to take back the portion of your self you lose in the process, and requires constant guarding against to protect your sense of self and life.

See also: Lisey's Story.

>>55298780
It's not a pornographic scene, despite the sex.

>>55300398
Mordred's a spider.

Los/Ram Abbalah/the Crimson King is a spider.

Pennywise/IT/the Deadlights.

The Crimson King and IT also share an epithet, the Kingfish.

What should I read to start understanding what the fuck you talk about?

WHAT ABOUT CELL?

>shape-shifting eldritch abomination thing
>beaten by a bunch of kids
>weird monster thing that can possess people
>can't dig itself out of a hole
>advanced ayys with special ship that converts people into them
>too stupid to live

Hmmm...

>>55297390
I remember reading It and the Stand and a few others as a kid and being weirded out and engrossed by them. But now it's apparently all part of some endless literary universe where everything is tied together into some cosmic horror. That sucks. Why does everything get ruined by trying to overexplain or overdevlop it? Why is massive branching universes the shape of the nightmare to come. Star Wars, Marvel movies, dark tower shit, hell even that guy who tried to turn HP Lovecrafts works into a consistent mythos after his death. This shit is getting tiresome.

>>55298460
And then he calls Trump a sicko...

>>55299717
>How does Rose Madder relate to the Dark Tower?
They briefly cross into other worlds, and the city of Lud (from The Waste Lands) is seen.

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>>55300187
From what I've seen, /lit/ despises absolutely *everything*. You literally can't have a discussion on there without those pretentious asswipes shitting it up with their diatribe.

>>55299750
>You just wanted a stealth King wanking thread outside /lit/ didn't you?
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Campaign:End-World
Here you go anon now it's /tg/-related

>>55301386
I liked Cell.

>>55296184
>The Deadlights, IT's true form, *literally* view our universe as being naught but a tiny egg to It.
And yet it has nothing better to do than frighten children?
That's fucking retarded.

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>>55296827
OIY!

>>55303618
>humans, *literally* the dominant animal on the planet.
And yet they have nothing better to do than eat and breathe?
That' fucking retarded.

This shit sounds pretty interesting. Is there any particular order i should read king's works in?

>>55303713
I've never seen a human trying to scare random bacteria with a microscopic clown puppet.

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>>55303618
>And yet it has nothing better to do than frighten children?
IT is unfathomably bored, as well as being *insanely* lazy. It honestly doesn't care for doing anything other than snacking on the human equivalent to KFC, and slurping up blood-smoothies. It would probably eat the universe eventually, but It would only do so after It has milked it dry first.

>>55298559

IT, Stephen King, 1986

>>55297221
>forgive me for not believing that the GKs would be willing to consort with what they'd probably simply see as other Daemons
They explicitly are, by their newer fluff.
Ends justify the means.

>>55296040
A GK can annihilate the phisical form of IT.
His true essence is pratically the warp, but the big E is keeping it at bay.
So no real winner

>>55302134
Yeah people seem to have forgotten that not everything needs to be made into an ever expanding mythos. It's a damn shame.

>>55302134
>HP Lovecrafts works
They were already connected and Lovecraft actually encouraged two of his friends (One of them the author of fucking Conan) to write or add to that world. I hate Derleth as much as the next guy but he wasn't responsible for the "mythos" thing.

>>55304964
Always amuses me when people shit on Derleth, when without Derleth there wouldn't be an Arkham House.

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So what would happen if some Inquisitor were to encounter Randall Flagg? How would they react to him?

>>55303867
>I've never seen a human trying to scare random bacteria with a microscopic clown puppet.
Your loss.

Does Pennywise in the new film have as much personality as he did in the old miniseries? The trailers make it seem like he's just a jumpscare factory.

>>55305728
He does. At one point there's a hilarious moment where he's hiding in a bush, eating a kid's arm, and when another kid notices him he just looks surprised and waves at him with said kid's arm. Classic lines like "BEEP BEEP, RICHIE" are still in as well. However, the fact he also has way more forms he goes into regularly than in the miniseries in this movie means his talking clown form doesn't show up as much.

>>55305757
Sounds excellent, thanks, this was all I needed to know to make my decision.

>>55298113
he probably doesnt considering king doesnt really remember writing any of it cause of the heavy addictions at the time

>>55303867
what is a kid with a magnifying glass and as many anthills as he can find?

>>55303867
>I've never seen a human trying to scare random bacteria with a microscopic clown puppet.
Buddy I do this every weekend

>>55306164
>he probably doesnt considering king doesnt really remember writing any of it cause of the heavy addictions at the time
When I read it and got to the part about the closet door leading to another world, it didn't faze me at all, because that's just how things work in the Kingverse. The kid was a little bit of a Breaker, so a small thinny appeared in his bedroom and attracted a malevolent spirit. Totally unrelated to the main plot about a rabid dog, but not out of place.

>>55305233
There's the compelling argument that Derleth basically condemned Lovecraft from actual Poe-tier scholarly criticism for decades because he threw a hissy fit because critics and academics were lukewarm to the way he presented Lovecraft's works.

Derleth was a hoarding asshole who did "save" Lovecraft from obscurity, but he presented his work in such a way, it still gets misunderstood.

>>55307945
To be fair, the other reason he doesn't get much poe-tier criticism is becaus emost of his stories can be boiled down to "i'm scared of [insert minority here]"

>>55308398
Anon, that's retarded and you know it.

>>55308631
You're a fool if you don't think several stories reflected his bigoted worldview. Both Innsmouth and Dunwich are basically about how terrified he was of interracial breeding, for instance.

>>55308631
The horrific twist at the end of Medusa's Coil was that the woman was half-black and I died laughing

>>55308699
Innsmouth is more about Lovecraft's fear of his family's legacy of mental illness and the idea of being damned and made an outsider by your own bloodline.
It takes more from his Poe-esque tales of degenerated families like Rats in the Walls, or The Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn.

>>55308778
Adding on. And that's not "most" of his stories. Do his stories have elements that reflect his Anglophile worldview? Yes. But those aren't why his stories aren't famous and influential on horror.

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>Its another "I read between the lines but yeah im 100% this is what was meant because i'm an intellectual academic guy guy

Stop it

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>>55308879
What the hell are you referring to here, Anon? I honestly don't understand what you meant other convey with this post here.

>>55309025
The "Person X meant Y because i think so" mentality that's common around pseudo-intellectuals.

>>55296184
How'd the kids fuck him up

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>>55298113
>that one time someone named their app Cujo, thinking it was a fun name like Siri

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>>55309867
God Himself was granting them the power necessary to best IT. It even lampshades it later, and proclaims that It *should* have been able to devour them with ease.

>>55309113
>The "Person X meant Y because i think so" mentality that's common around pseudo-intellectuals.
But if you read enough King books you start to see that they're all connected. Pennywise is mentioned in other books besides IT.

>>55310103
Its almost as if my comment was a better fit for some other posts huh?

>>55310103
He was referring to the Lovecraft stuff.

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>>55296040
I highly doubt it. If pennywise preys on children it is a lesser daemon at best, it's physical form would be easily banished back to the warp.

>>55296479
I'm late to the debate, but big question. Why would an entity so large and/or powerful that it's eternal and exists outside the known universe, how/why would it gain sustenance from eating people? By scale wouldn't that be like a person living off of individual microbes? Or, like, pieces of microbes?

>>55310217
>Didn't read literally even the first response in the thread
Anyways the reason it preys on children is because their fear is tastier, not because of any innate weakness.

It takes communing with a being that can literally create entire universes to banish him the first time, and the second time is implied to have never stuck.

>>55310253
It's kind of simple - the Deadlights do not exist in a matter state and are completely incompatible with a material universe as a whole, so IT's manifestation is basically IT's attempt to create something it doesn't entirely understand, and it needs to feed on the fear and flesh of the material world for this simple manifestation to grow. Simply gazing into the Deadlights (which it can reveal even in its Material form, albeit more as a window cut off from the true colossal power of the Deadlights) will completely annihilate your soul.

>>55296688
>Ritual of Chud
>>55298460
When the Losers' travel into the sewer with the intent of destroying It, they momentarily find themselves hopelessly trapped. As the boys start to panic, Beverly comes up with the idea of having sex with the others in order to calm them down, as a result the other Losers take turns having sex with her. Because King didn't wish this to be viewed as a lewd scene, the narrative explicitly states that the act of intimacy with each of the boys' helps to further strengthen their friendship; and Beverly only experiences orgasm while having intercourse with Bill Denbrough and Ben Hanscom.

>>55310253
>ow/why would it gain sustenance from eating people? By scale wouldn't that be like a person living off of individual microbes? Or, like, pieces of microbes?

It's like a kid poking an anthill with a stick, only the stick is an extension of the kid's will and viscerally feels the same malicious joy at smashing little ants. Even if the ants somehow manage to destroy the stick (which requires the help of Ant God), the kid can just let go of it and get another one, and if an ant manages to get on the kid, the kid can just squish the ant.

This particular kid likes torturing helpless baby ants.

>>55310330
It's worth noting the scene doesn't get into the gritty details as well, so it's definitely not intended to be porn suddenly stuck into the book.

>>55310330
I took it as more of a ritual of passing into adulthood, because then the glammer that was causing them to wander around in circles was broken since they didn't perceive themselves as kids anymore.

>>55310300
Okay, so if I'm following you correctly, IT's true form is an incomprehensibly huge timeless entity that is exempt from pretty much every known law of physics and is therefore, for all intents and purposes, indestructible.

Pennywise and the various forms we see are merely a manifestation of IT, a small piece of IT that exists on the physical plane. Pennywise and the shapes he takes are physically vulnerable, but destroying a manifestation does not destroy IT.

If that's correct, then IT functions like a Chaos God, albeit with different scale. Pennywise, in a sense, is a Daemon of IT. Is that a fair comparison, or am I still missing something? I only saw the movie and haven't touched any of the Dark Tower books. Seems to me that a Grey Knight would be able to stomp movie IT, but book IT sounds considerably more powerful.

>>55310397
>>55310389

When I read it the first time I was a bit thrown back. Not as much as when the turtle was introduced, I felt like the whole book was fucked up and ruined by the ending.

>>55308699
>Both Innsmouth and Dunwich are basically about how terrified he was of interracial breeding, for instance.
Literally /ourguy/

>>55310424
You have it mostly right, and I think somebody saw the manifestation as more of a Daemon of IT while the true IT is more like a Chaos God, so you're definitely not alone. And yes, Movie IT is much, much weaker than Book IT.

>>55310427
>When I read it the first time I was a bit thrown back. Not as much as when the turtle was introduced, I felt like the whole book was fucked up and ruined by the ending.

I read IT after The Waste Lands, so the Turtle and the ending was awesome to me. After all, sex around demons is a common tactic for getting shit done in Mid-World.

>>55310445
He was too much of a sadstack to do anything about it - the guy was so phobic he was even terrified of seafood!

>>55310424
>book IT sounds considerably more powerful

It is, and honestly your summary is about on-par with how I always perceived the situation. In the book however
>>55310427
mentions a turtle, which claims to have created the universe about a bad bout of gas (not even kidding), which one could percieve this turtle as another chaos god, he always came of as kinda tzeenchy to me. Which makes things funnier, a chaos god fucked over another chaos god by helping some mortals shit on its day.

IT always came off as a bit of slaanesh/khorne.

>>55310456
I read IT after I read Christine and Misery. Never read wastelands, darktower, or any of that stuff. I read all of the "baby boomer horror" king books, so I was incredibly confused.

>>55310467
If every racist just channeled their neuroses and fears into making art like Lovecraft, I'm sure the world would be a much better place desu

>>55310468
>IT always came off as a bit of slaanesh/khorne.
No. IT is basically the Tyranid Hive Mind if anything, as it embodies consumption, not pleasure or hate. Just the pure urge to devour and consume and destroy.

>>55310468
Maybe it's cause I've been reading too much Discworld, but am I the only one who thinks this Turtle is incredibly silly? Is it supposed to be? Like 'the horror of realizing your god made you by accident and isn't all that interesting', or is it 'yes god is a turtle, I think turtles are cool, fuck you The Turtle is cool'?

>>55310515
It was a pretty basic "The Benevolent god is a slow, passive animal while the Malevolent One is a Giant Fucking Spider," both are simple terminology relating them to animals however while their true forms are considerably more crazy, though we only see IT's, the Deadlights.

>>55310486
In The Waste Lands, the Turtle is set up as a cosmic cheerleader for the good segment of humanity (or rather, everything that strives toward making things better for everybody and not worse). He's seen as the most benevolent of the cosmic entities that comprise the zodiac of the Dark Tower.

So when he shows up in IT and spams white light until everything is better, it makes perfect sense.

Wait, how are movie IT and book IT different? I've read the book and watched the old miniseries, haven't gotten a chance to step out and see the movie yet.

>>55310564
In the movies the Turtle's impact on the story and the Ritual of Chud is cut out, so IT is simply defeated by the children's power of belief instead of aid from a cosmic power, which leads people to think IT is way weaker than it actually is.

>>55310580
That's stupid, I'm guessing they cut out the Turtle because the Dark Tower movie bombed.

>>55310515
The thing about farting out our universe is just the kind of derisive humor common in the setting where that saying is used. The Turtle is one of twelve spirit animals called Guardians of the Beams that watch over all realities. Most of them are neutral toward humanity, which makes the Turtle even more specialer.

If you're unaware, Discworld was referencing the belief that the world is held up by four giant elephants all standing on the back of an even larger turtle.

>>55310597
It's one of those things that's too weird, cosmic, and probably too expensive to show. It doesn't adapt well from page to screen. I mean a lot of people went lolwut at Spider-IT in the tv miniseries.

>>55310597
Nah, it's more because there's no way to do the Turtle scenes because it'd be an IMMENSE cgi fuckfest, and it's almost impossible to fit the level of detail and exposition within it into a movie. We do see the Deadlights twice in the new film though, first when Pennywise appears doing a stupid dance, you can see them flowing behind him, and second when he opens up his mouth (over his entire face) to Bev and brainwashes her with them, which are floating at the back of his throat. It's still a great film, a much stronger adaptation than the miniseries, but no turtles sadly.

>>55310598
>>If you're unaware, Discworld was referencing the belief that the world is held up by four giant elephants all standing on the back of an even larger turtle.

Yeah, and it's turtles all the way down. That's an obvious pull, Pratchett said as much in multiple interviews... Wait, are there people who don't know about that old folklore?

But okay, so it's one of those pantheon things. One likes us. One's a dick. Most don't care either way. And the divide between the good and bad one comes down to a group of preteens fucking in the sewers while running from a clown. Got it.

>>55310657
IT isn't part of that group, it's a malignant entity that is part of the outer dark or red, the main evil force in the SK unvierse, also called Dis, the Crimson King.

>>55310649
>a much stronger adaptation than the miniseries
I'll agree when they do this bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxXmVybL8Y

>>55310681
Is it related to the Null and the Great Ones that reside there in Revival? Because if Revival is part of the overall King-verse, that's some pretty horrifying implication right there.

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>>55297850
The WAAAGH!! in action, folks.

>>55310717
It's possible, Mother does have a theme of insectoid entities, which are kind of reserved for the Outer Dark, but I think it's more likely a take on Shub-Niggurath from the Cthulhu Mythos, which King has written a couple stories for.

>>55310757
Mythos shit pops up in King books all the time.

There's a common Mythos phrase written on a wall in Needful Things, off the top of my head.

>>55310809
Jerusalem's Lot and Revival have Robert Bloch's De Vermis Mysteris.

>>55310649
>Pennywise appears doing a stupid dance, you can see them flowing behind him

Everybody needs to see that scene. Spoilers of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01gfP9he68

>>55310919
>this is how an infinite dimension of light and madness that exists outside of the universe behaves
I love It

>>55297648
While a lot of people don't like what happened to Flagg at the end of the Dark Tower, I always remember that, in Eyes of the Dragon, Flagg has a dream where he sees himself dying, HOLDING HIS EYE

>>55310919
>He's grimacing the entire time
Holy shit. If that was the last thing I saw before I died I'd honestly have no idea how to handle it.

>>55297430
I'm not 100% sure Orks have "souls" in 40k... they more have "WAAAGH", which is a similar / distinctly separate entity from Souls... like, Daemons can't eat ork souls... but they can get stuck inside an ork trying to posses one... which results in a Weird Boy... am i right about that?

>>55311091
I'm pretty sure that if IT realized Orks didn't have souls IT would see potential use in them and then shapeshift into a huge warboss to get them to do shit - doing this and showing off his Deadlights form through a window (probably the eye) could be a way of convincing them that he has the favor of Gork and Mork. They don't have practically any tasty fear to feed on but they also wouldn't be able to be destroyed by his true shape, so it'd be better to make use of them than anything else.

>>55303713
But anon, we do plenty of others things than eat and breathe, that's what distinguishes us from animals.

By your definitions, the drive and ambitions of godlike creatures is the same as that of a bat drinking cow blood.

>>55311424
Scaring kids and then eating them alive helps to wear down the Beams to the point where they fail, which is the goal of all the manifestations of the Red.

Pennywise is more of a tick that's content to lurk in Derry and feed off of the population slowly but incessantly, but Pennywise is just a manifestation of something else that's probably working hard elsewhere to disrupt creation.

Is the giant spider shape-shifting into the clown/werewolf/etc., or is it projecting these different forms from the sewer it was confronted in at the end of the book?

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>>55311829

>>55311994
Jesus Christ

>>55311994
10/10

It is basically the worst anglerfish to ever exist. The lure is pure fear, come on.

>>55312498
You've got everything wrong, my friend. The "lure" as you call it is more like a means of spicing its prey - while IT lures Georgie with his boat, he usually doesn't try and lure kids at all. he can just straight up fucking attack whenever he wants - the point is he takes scary forms because it instills fear and terror in the children, making them more tasty and nutritious to eat.

It's worth noting he doesn't REQUIRE fear to eat, it simply adds more "nutrition" so to speak and makes it more delicious, at one point he had an entire ironworks explode killing around 88 kids, as a large feast.

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Who is more effective at corruption and overall evil, Pennywise or BOB?

>>55312568
Probably Pennywise, but they are extremely similar beasts - at one point Pennywise even influences Bev's father to attempt to molest and murder her! Wonder if Lynch took any inspiration...

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>>55312568
A-jeroth has them both beat.

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>>55312605
The fact that they specifically designed his face so that the red lines on his face acted as the 'seams'c with which he would revelation his Deadlights truly shows how much attention to detail they placed on this guy.

>>55312526
Not at all, Fear is what gives Pennywise the ability to act.

Not being afraid of him means he cannot interact with you unless you're in the sewers.

Which is where OP's situation comes in. It doesn't matter how strong or powerful the Deadlights are, Pennywise would be banished with ease.

>>55312605
kinna look like they thing from the langoleers..

He always starts off with the bitterness of old men. How small town life can make you bitter and mean. But then he always turns it around in the end. The value of friendship, community, sticking together.

He just speaks to an innate goodness in me. Like when your dumbass younger brother says something clever and you can't help but smile.

>>55312841
There is also this idea that "God doesn't have to give you a happy ending. He chooses to do so because he finds you worthy."

People are Misreading what the Deadlights are.

The Deadlights themselves are not an entity, but merely a power or force that can be used.

IT is merely the being that composes this realm. And though it's plenty scary and Deadlights are Scary is hardly as all-powerful and eventual as IT actually is.

It's far more complex than just a Lovecraftian fear anglerfish

>>55312872
Also to add; the Dark Tower Mythos is pretty "Low" in terms of outrageous power.

Humans can manipulate the Setting very easily.

>>55312753
>It doesn't matter how strong or powerful the Deadlights are, Pennywise would be banished with ease.
Explain how the GKs would be able to truly banish Pennywise without the aid of Gan or the Turtle, please? He might not be able to affect them unless they're in the sewer but I fail to see how Imperial rituals would be of use defeating something that explicitly isn't a 40k Warp-Daemon.

>>55312988
they are able to shut things out of their mind and achieve a sort of null space. It can be broken with extreme pain or unnatural resonance, but it is very powerful.

>>55312988
Gan would help them anyway.

Or alternatively; Use a Tesseract, that might deal with Pennywise and even his larger self Permanently because they were made to Hold terrible Star Gods.

>>55313017
For instance, the Tyranid hive mind gives out psychic vibrations which make most ordinary men cower in terror. The grey knights are immune to anything short of a full on psychic assault from a tyranid brood mother itself.

>>55313017
I don't see how that's explicitly banishing IT's physical form from this universe, please explain? While IT can be rendered impotent or weakened in the right case the two times IT was actually defeated (both only temporarily) required help from higher beings.

>>55296184
Nah, like most daemons, It talks a good game but it's quite clearly nowhere near as powerful as claimed to be. Grey Knight weaponry is tailored to annihilate extra-dimensional threats that feed on human emotion, It would get it's shit stomped.

>>55313028
I tried building one of those when I was stoned. I said it was to hold weed, but it was a tesseract.

I had to tear it down before I finished

>>55313028
I don't think the C'tan are completely outside and incompatible with the universe (and bigger than it, to boot), anon.

>>55313051
This isn't a case of bravado, this is literally what's stated in the exposition both inside the book IT and out.

>>55313048
They'll tear it apart with their magic weapons.

>>55313048
The grey knights are able to infuse their weapons with psychic emanations that allow them to damage otherworldly and immaterial beings. They channel their faith into their weapons.

>>55296040
Doesn't IT need the victim to be afraid of it? Anyone will balls of steel can bend him over and fuck him, even 11 year olds having an orgy.

>>55313066
No, the C'tan are the exact opposite.

They literally control the physical universe perfectly to such an extent they are more Dangerous than any Daemon.

Time and Space are like clay to a C'tan, Distance is meaningless, time is pointless, strength of material is universally pointless.

The Thing that made Pennywise strong is it's connection to the Deadlights, a realm of soul damaging power.

HOWEVER; powerful beings can harness the Deadlights just fine, like the Crimson King.

We have very little to base it's strength on, because it preyed on Normal Humans in one point and the entire Dark Tower Mythos has Clint Eastwood save the universe.

Some super powered Jedi in power armor would handle it just fine.

I mean the Imperium handled evil sentient anti-space.

>>55313051
Ultimately, its a battle of wills. The grey knights have lived a mere handful of centuries, their will is tempered by faith. But it is an extradimensional entity fueled by hate. Its ego has remained in its present state throughout an eternity, so who knows how many tens or even thousands of years it has been alive?

It is a battle of egos. A grandmaster chess player may have the will to stand against a soldier, but not a god.

>>55313114
And then the Grey Knight shreds it apart with heavy weaponry.

>>55313111
The C'tan's minds are dulled with entropy, as are all Necrons. It's mind is sharp, and it has been around for a looooong time.

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>>55313082
>They channel their faith into their weapons.
Their "faith" likely wouldn't be enough. They id's had faith in their bonds and friendships, and it was repeatedly stated that IT would have utterly destroyed them despite all that, if it wasn't for Gan directly providing them aid.

>>55313107
>even 11 year olds having an orgy.
you think thats something the editor snuck in there to make more sales, or did King really zone out and write about kids diddling each other?

>>55313123
No, the C'tan's minds are dulled by being fractured into a Million little shards.

A full C'tan would simply rip Pennywise out of the wall of Reality and grind her to heel.

>>55313136
It was written weirdly and not actually played off as erotic, so the latter.

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>>55313111
>powerful beings can harness the Deadlights just fine, like the Crimson King.
That's because the Crimson King -is- the Deadlights. As well as being the entirety of the Outer Dark, the power rim or dial soup that is the Prim, and the Red itself.

>>55313132
It also comes from an era where we have sealed spirits behind the material. In 40k, there is nothing to prevent a creature from making its will made manifest. It can shape the material plane as it chooses because humanity has already opened the 7th seal, i.e. the barriers between the spirit and the material no longer exist.

>>55313151
C'tans or the Old Ones would be a match for pennywise.

Though you have to wonder why the old ones created orks.

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>>55313111
>HOWEVER; powerful beings can harness the Deadlights just fine, like the Crimson King.


You do realize that IT and the Crimson King are the same entity, just in different aspect.

You don't actually win a war by being clever. I'm not saying that to sound clever, I'm saying that because its the truth. In war, nobody has any control over anything, if you need a control fix, you take it where you can get it.

>>55313158
No, He is an AVATAR.

Just like Pennywise, merely a representation onto the lower planes of existence, and still subject to most of the rules of it.

By all the rules of the Dark Tower Mythos, nothing stops Grey knights from using their magic to banish the Avatar Pennywise.

>>55313178
No the Crimson King is more than IT.

>>55296208
In the book at least they performed a ritual from a "god" in the king cosmology, the Turtle

>>55313111
>Clint Eastwood Save the Universe.

That would be an awesome light hearted roast I'd love to read.

>>55313171
C'tan have laws, they only work in the Material Universe.

Old Ones hold mastery over the Warp Pre-chaos.

I think fundamentally, people are misunderstanding Pennywise and it's strength or how things like Pennywise work in the Dark Tower Mythos.

Pennywise is a conscious projection onto the Material universe of an unconscious force.

Like if the Shore of the Sea was an angry thinking thing that wants to devour the shore.

>>55313204
... That's literally the Dark Tower though.

>>55313207
>Like if the Shore of the Sea was an angry thinking thing that wants to devour the shore.

I just saw a big ass worm.
I broke its spine.

>>55313204
Technically he doesn't since the end of the series has the loop restart again and it's doubtful King will ever truly conclude the story.

>>55313228
Which is why it would be a roast.

>All this wank about how a Grey Knight would be able to handle IT's true form
Yeah just like that one in 7E could handle looking at Slaanesh, am I right? :^)

>>55296304
I've read that Gan is a dick.

BANGO

>>55313251
People who love the GKs' "incorruptibility" always seem to forget that one time where it was explicitly proven that it didn't expand to God-like beings themselves.

Can adults even be aware of It if they weren't as children? I actually don't quite get that part of It.

>>55313321
Isn't it more like all the adults in IT, and by extension Derry as a whole, are more controlled by/extensions of IT?

>>55313251
IT isn't as strong as Slaanesh though

>>55313251
>7E daemons codex
>It was there, beneath the elegant spires, that the wanderer came before almighty Slaanesh. Statuesque and divinely glamorous, the deity visited him in the form of a young man possessed of an androgynous beauty – clean climbed and fresh with the vigour of youth. The knight unsheathed his rune-etched sword and made to strike him down. To his horror, he found that he could not, for the god-prince was disarming in his innocence and utterly beguiling in his manner.

>Even the purest flame can be extinguished by the tide. In that single moment of doubt the wanderer was lost. He knelt, bowing his head at last, and a single touch of the being’s glowing sceptre on each shoulder sealed his fate for eternity.

>>55313432
I don't really see any citation for or against IT's true form outside its physical manifestation being nay stronger or weaker than Slaanesh.
>B-but Clint Eastwood beat up the Crimson King
Los was an Avatar of Dis that was decayed just as the Tower was. He was nowhere close to the strength of Dis' true form.

>>55302432

/lit/ is the only board where I've legitimately never seen a thread that didn't contain some manner of baseline contrarianism, derision, or negativity aimed at the OP subject. /tg/, /v/, /co/, /a/, even fucking /pol/ and /mu/ manage to have SOME threads, SOME times, and SOME topics where everyone is in enough of agreement on a topic for it to be discussed positively.

/co/ has ubiquitous love for stuff like Donald Duck comics or Reboot.
/v/ threads about Alpha Centauri are always awesome.
/mu/ has albums that everyone can at least begrudgingly accept as decent.

But, no matter what the subject, no matter how innocuous, self-evident, or universally agreeable the concept or theme of discussion, some fucking faggot on /lit/ has to jerk themselves off anonymously and be a pretentious, self-important twat.

They can't even manage /pol/-like angry, collective appreciation for the power of hating a thing or a comfy schadenfreude of threads laughing about disaster and misery. Someone always has to show that they're smarter or better on /lit/.

It has all these weird limits it plays by. It pretends to be hurt by physical wounds, or is hurt? Which only emboldens its attackers and does not promote fear. It allows its body to be smashed up by mortals because it can't scare them anymore? Did that make It depressed or something, why wouldn't that be the cue to just say "well this one's a wash" and just settle for regular un-feared murder, like the factory explosion where the victims weren't afraid?

>>55313491
I think it's mostly just pure arrogance. In both the cases of battles where IT was truly banished aid from beyond was required and the text states it could have destroyed them otherwise - my guess is that IT is just a fucking idiot.

>>55313465
Because Slaanesh is lust and emotion manifest and even the slightest hint of want invites him in.

It's what makes him the most subtle and slowly the most powerful of the chaos gods.

IT delights in torment, it wants for the fear of others. That makes it easy for Slaanesh to manipulate.

>>55313514
On the other hand, IT has always stated "The Other" would utterly shit on IT if it wants.

And the Other is Gan, so I assume it tries to keep things subtle to avoid Gan's attention.

>>55313465
Because Slaanesh is subtly the most Powerful Chaos god, because Raw power isn't his domain but indulgence and want.

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It kind of pisses me off that in fluff the GKs are a legion of ultra-sues that are presented as pretty much succeeding almost wherever they go whereas on the table they can be killed by a lucky Green Funny Man or Scary Space Bug.


Sometimes you shouldn't write such outrageous fluff if it can be hilariously subverted in actual gameplay, but that's just my take.

>Arguing with Carnac
You guys should really give up now and move on to greener pastures.

>>55313491
Also why were the sewers and physical locations even important in any way to finding It? It could appear anywhere it wanted and didn't need to use sewers, the well house or select victims to line up near any of them. The town fully open to it and It could arrive through walls, TVs or open air without needing drainpipes, but somehow they were the key.

>>55313583
>Any mention of Chaos is Carnac.

Mork and Gork could also Slap up IT I guess?

>>55313592
When manifesting in our reality, IT has to play by certain rules, like getting hurt if the attacker believes the attack will hurt IT, such as the silver sling bullets or the asthma spritzer.

>Kingverse vs 40k discussion
Oh god. The ltieral only way you could make this worse would be if you threw the metaverse depicted in Umineko into the mix. Pure fucking anarchy.

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>>55313491
Basically this (>>55313514), and this (>>55313529). IT is unfathomably arrogant and narcissistic, which is one of the primary reasons as to why it keeps getting It's ass kicked. IT -literally- cannot comprehend -why- It keeps losing, only that it does. IT also doesn't want to piss off Gan, as that would result in It getting rekt beyond comprehension.

GKs could fight it in the same way anyone could. Fighting It doesn't involve guns or training. You can fight It, and you have to get Gan's help like everyone should be able to. Your mom could fight It. She's been through worse shit and you know it.

>>55313605
That makes sense. Thanks

>>55313618
Not really. Featherine's author powers kind of shit on both - she could stop the plot and write that all four chaos Gods + IT were completely destroyed, and even with the shittiest of justifications, it'd work. I think throwing a universe like Touhou's would fit the whole "my universe is superior than yours" slapfight that's happening here.

>>55313191
>the king cosmology, the Turtle
Nah, the Turtle is just a mid-ranking deity.
He was dead by the time the Losers came back as adults.
I can't find the page, but the capital G God was helping them in the last battle.

>>55313648
Excluding Featherine, then. Then again, bern and lambda's basic attacks are described as creating and destroying multiple universes... Maybe you're right about there being basically no contest.

>>55297855
Hearts in Atlantis.
The old man in it was a Regulator, I recall.

>>55313648
>Featherine's author powers kind of shit on both - she could stop the plot and write that all four chaos Gods + IT were completely destroyed, and even with the shittiest of justifications, it'd work.
Maybe with IT. Featherine wouldn't give enough of a shit about brilliant black library "writing" to give the Chaos Gods that honor, she'd just completely write them out of the narrative and condemn them to cessation of existence.

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>>55313648
>>55313701
The Witches from Umineko, whilst -extremely- powerful, would be little more than pawns
themselves in Dis/the Red's neverending war against Gan. Even with their bullshit, the top-tiers of the Tower would absolutely shit on them.

>>55306209
A kid that needs to be spanked more often.

>>55313733
I'm pretty sure Feath would crush even the KC considering that she managed to OHKO a character whose entire thing is that they could empower anyone or anything to accomplish what they want (however possibly slowly depending on the difficulty of the task) so long as they were determined, while said character was in an extremely fired up and determined state.

That being said, otherwise you're right. Both Bern and Lambda are just former human existences that are rather strong, and don't have anything close to Featherine's author authority.

>>55313660
he's not even really a deity, just a Beam Guardian. he may have made the universe on the Tower level that Bill lived on, but that's just filling in the cracks of creation, really.

my question is, if Maturin is a Beam Guardian, and he's that fucking immense, doesn't that make something like Shardik--a really big robot bear, but still just a big robot bear--kinda superfluous? what's the point of a big robot bear when you've got a turtle that's whole lightyears long?

>>55313806
Featherine would have no reason to crush Dis as Dis is a force that allows stories and legends to form - you're forgetting she's mostly a neutral character and only stepped in to help Bernkastel's game not be cut short early, and considering Dis and Bern have comparative levels of evil I doubt that she'd be motivated to kill him just because he's fucked up. She'd just watch from the sidelines.

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>>55313806
>I'm pretty sure Feath would crush even the KC considering that she managed to OHKO a character whose entire thing is that they could empower anyone or anything to accomplish what they want (however possibly slowly depending on the difficulty of the task) so long as they were determined, while said character was in an extremely fired up and determined state.
Difference is that Featherine is -explicitly- not the most powerfull being in her setting. That role is fulfilled by the Creator, and Gan would likely be the Creator equivalent in the Dark Towerverse. Dis/the Red/the Outer Dark, is directly on par with Gan, and is capable of effecting all Levels of the Tower at the same time with no apparent strain or restriction on its being from doing so. Featherine is limited in that she is just a singular being in the end, and can only edit her stories as fast as she allows herself to. Dis doesn't have these limiters in place at all. The only thing binding it is Gan itself.

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>>55313822
Turtles are slow to move.
Someone has to watch his 9.
That's where the Bear comes in.
I guess?

alright, what about the Emperor when He was not stuck to the golden toilet, could He do anything against that dumb clown?

>>55313876
Well said! I'll concede then - I had forgotten about the Creator.

>>55313912
Probably punt IT out of this end of the cosmos.

>>55313891
the Old Ones couldn't have made, i dunno, something more impressive, though?

he didn't even vomit up any universes. just worms.

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>>55313876
Logically, the only entity that could ever truly beat the Crimson King is pic related because he deals with this shit on a daily basis and narrative logic says so.

>>55313822
Shardik the robot bear is just a cheap replacement that the Great Old Ones created after the real Shardik died.

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>>55313958
He is also the complete opposite of everything the Outer Dark embodies. If Kirby were placed within the Dark Towerverse, I could see him becoming a new Gunslinger.

>>55314207
>"Ha' you fowgatta da face'a yofaddah?

>>55296412
I might have to read these books after all...

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>I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
>I aim with my eye.

>I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
>I shoot with my mind.

>I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
>I kill with my heart.”

>>55314874
Disappointing little cunt.

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>>55296040
What would happen if Maine entered the 40k universe?

>>55313475
The best, most accurate takedown of that shit board that I have ever seen. Some people think /pol/ should be deleted? Fuck that, nuke /lit/ and the collective IQ of 4chan will rise by 1000 points.