/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55275097
We Eat Butt

I like dead games.

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Reminder that the V5 alpha playtest is avaliable from worldofdarkness.com. You have to register, log in, and it'll be in the inventory of your profile available for download. Player's Packet is 75 pages and Storytellers Packet is 104 pages.

>>55275097
Beast

>>55275097
When do I get the 2nd edition of Hunter.

>>55275152
>I like dead games.
Well, you are in /tg/ so...

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>>55275097
Their use of gender pronouns

>>55275180
I kinda want to run this, but my player base isn't that familiar with Vampire. How much work is this to run?
How much is spelled out and pre-written vs how much is improvised?
I know the first play test just murdered you for going off rails, is this similar?
Does it actually have char-gen or is it all premades again?

>>55275751
It's a simple system with pregens and a scenario. This is an alpha to test possible systems and ideas, not a fully fledged and developed game.

If a Vampire gets blasted with say a shotgun. That damage will get reduced to bashing but will it still stun them if it does enough damage?

In M20 is going above rank 5 in a sphere a thing? In the V20 book, they printed all of the abilities past 5 but Phil decided not to for spheres. Did he just decide that those spheres don't exist in M20? I've looked through the book and I don't remember reading anything about it.

>>55277503
They are mentioned several times as still being cannon, but m20 doesn't cover them, much like it doesn't cover damn near anything, like proper spell casting rules, or what all those charts they copy pasted without reference are for.

>>55277503
Where in V20 do they go past 5 dots? Could I get a page?

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>>55277503
Phil is a fucking mong. What could have been a proper system for Archspheres was butchered in favor of a pretentious "don't try this at home, kids" booklet of pure ass.

Had they actually decided (as they should have) to do the Archspheres it would have looked like pic related.

>>55277377
Vampires can't be stunned or knocked out

>>55277581
>"don't try this at home, kids"
That's literally the whole book.
DONT PLAY EVIL MAGES IT WILL TURN U EVIL
Oh you want to examine them and no how their aura works because this is a game? Fuck you.

Phil is such a piece of human garbage, I'm glad he can't pay his fucking rent. Maybe if he learned how to do something he wouldn't be so fucked.

>>55277595
A'ight cool. If there like a handy cheat sheet for different splats and their quirks in combat.

>>55277565
I don't think they do.

>>55277503
Yeah, they still exist but Phil hates them and elected not to include any meaningful content about them in the book.

>>55275679
Is that hipster trying to summon one of the Great Old Ones? That's some lovecraftian chanting shit right there

>>55277621
>Oh you want to examine them and no how their aura works because this is a game? Fuck you.

Wait seriously?

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>>55277706
YEP, hes scum and can't write and RichT should be shot out of the same cannon into the sun for letting him do it.

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>>55277706
Yes really.

>>55277744
NOT EVEN SO MUCH AS A SIDENOTE THAT THEY APPEAR NORMAL OR HIDE THEMSELVES, JUST A FUCK YOU.

I PAYED $375 FOR THIS FUCKING BOOK. I HOPE PHIL FUCKING KILLS HIMSELF.

>5th edition cliffnotes
>https://pastebin.com/cp0r59da
This sounds awful.

>>55277759
>No rules for Sorcerers or Archspheres
>Rules for fucking food

>>55277759
>$375
Really?

Father's thrusting cock

>>55277744
>>55277750

what's the point in aura colors ala auspex when IIRC prime resonance detection is supposed to be different depending on your paradigm?

>>55277636
Dead things including vamps, mummies, and geists can not be stunned or knocked out.

>>55277813
Brucatooooooooo

>>55277832
unless magic

>>55277833
Satyrooooooooos

>>55277797
YES. THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE GOD DAMN US DOLLARS.THE LEATHER COVER AT LEAST LOOKS NICE, BUT THE INTERIOR NOT SO MUCH

>>55277851
If a demon's knockout punch doesn't work on mummys/geists neither will a mages magic.

>>55277900
nah it will work

>>55277744
>>55277750
>>55277759
>>55277875
>mage fans
lol

Guys, just come over to Awakening.

Dave will treat you so much better.

>>55277963
>Ascenion fans.

>>55277988
I'm already an Awakening faggot.

Doesn't mean I can't complain about how much Phil butchered M20.

>>55277832
Um citation please. Cos thats BS.

>>55277919
No it will not

>>55278035
They can't be knocked out by conventional means.

>>55278035
Read the fucking books. Mummys and Geists specifically can not be knocked out.

Guys? Question about Thaumaturgy.

You have to get your Primary Path to level 5 before you can start on another path, right?

.. Well, does that mean Thin Blooded vampires can never learn more than 3 dots of a single Blood Sorcery discipline? Tremere heritage or otherwise.

>>55278047
Where does it mention that in vampire, show me specific text and your gay fantasies.

Oh so both geist and mummy, both 1e so we can ignore. Were vampires immune in 1e because they arnt in 2e..

>>55278080
no.

just what is says, thin blooded are limited to any path at 3

>>55278080
>You have to get your Primary Path to level 5 before you can start on another path, right?

Lol, blood sorcerers sound weak as balls

>>55278115
Sorry that it's not a Mage nerd power fantasy where you can do anything

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>>55278115
They are. They are pretty much a insect compared to one of the Wise.

>>55278142
Those are fighting words here in /MofDg/

>>55278173
Daily reminder that next to nobody ever actually wants to run an obnoxious power fantasy Mage game and all the Mage fans congregating to these threads are here because they don't have any games to play.

>>55278098
But in 20th it says you pretty much have to complete your primary path before you can start working on another. And so on.

15th gens can't have more than 3 dots and can never master a discipline. 14th gens can never have beyond 4. They can't master Thaumaturgy paths.

>>55278200
Oh, I'm sorry. It was my understand that Mage was all about magic and the power that comes from it. Not some faggy game about 'muh personal horror' and how gay it is to suck on people.

>>55278228
>Pssh, Personnel horror, kid.

>>55278035
Sounds about right to me. Death Mage Armor also means you can't be knocked out, at least. Or that you don't have to roll stamina to stay conscious when your health track fills up with bashing damage, I should say.

>>55278228
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY WON'T ANYONE RUN MAGE GAMES FOR MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>55278254
>The Vampfag is triggered

>>55278267
>t-the only reason I don't have any games to play is because my system is just too advanced to appeal to the unwashed masses
>*tips wizard hat*
I've only played Wraith and think that all of World of Darkness is awful by the way, I'm just here to laugh at you.

>>55278228
>>55278242
Vampire is a complete fucking meme
>muh personal horror!
Fucking beast is scarier than my chemical romance rejects the splat.

>>55278297
Awful lot of projecting going on there anon.

>>55278315
Ah yes, projecting, the new form of "N-N-N-NO Y-YOU ;_;", what an argument.

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>>55278357
>Anon has no games.
>Autisticly REEEEEES that nobody else has games for the system he doesn't like
>Other people do in fact play games
>Anon gets called out for not being the all seeing shitposter he believes himself to be.
Yeah bro, that's projecting pretty hard right there.

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>>55278357
Hey guess what. Geist is far better than wraith thematically, mechanically and playability.

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>>55278408

When will the splat wars end

>>55278408
What the fuck? Geists look like badass stands? I thought they were lame all so "spooky" ghosts.

>>55277565 I meant disciplines not abilities. Whoops.

>>55278493
Yes, but page number?

>>55278460
Can it truly be called a war if the others continue only at the good grace of Mages?

>>55277988
I grew up with Ascension but this board has made me want to read through the Awakening book.

>>55278575
Awakening is more original.

Though I do miss the real world occult influences of Ascension.

>>55278575
Awakening is pretty fun, and this is coming from a hardcore Ascensionfag.

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>>55278503
All of them?

>>55278645
I thought they'd be stronger.

>>55277565
The V20 book only lists disciplines going above 5 because they always have.

Player characters cannot have beyond 5 dots, because in order to have access to 6 and above, you need to be a 7th generation.

You can play 7th generations in Dark Ages, but not in the modern era. The average Modern Era vampire is 12th, and the rare "Five dots in Generation" background is 8th generation. They can never achieve more than 5 dots in a Discipline unless they diab a vampire of a generation closer to Caine than themselves.

The extra levels of the disciplines cannot be attained by player characters.

>>55278764
>Not eating your way up the Generation totempole.

>>55278709
6+ Disciplines aren't really that impressive.

Not in the way that Archspheres are.

Anybody else think the Spheres are highly undetailed in M20? Even Revised has it better.

Does ascension actually work out of the box? Every screenshot I've seen seems to be a rules nightmare.

>>55278903
Fuck no. There are contradictions left and right. There's literally multiple ways of using Foci rules because of how vague it was worded.

>>55278468
Geist is pretty much a shounen anime.

>>55278880
Literally every previous version of mage including Ars Magica does a better job than m20

>>55278903
The only Mage edition to properly work out of the box without any issues is Awakening 2e.

>>55278972
It's not perfect the rules for imbued items and artifacts are kind of vague for my taste. But overall Dave and the team did a bang up job.

>>55279000
This has been the biggest barrier to me adopting 2e Mage. There are just a few too many unanswered questions since there aren't any supplements or anything.

>>55278903
>>55278972
>>55279000
Really every WoD / CofD game is broken and requires some improvisation to make it work.
The only think that's even close to breaking that is Awakening 2e like the one Anon said, and Demon. But Demon gets around it by going "lol make half of this shit up yourself, you were going to have to houserule it anyway"

>>55279044
That's true for like every pen and paper system.

>>55279044
Awakening is arguably the least broken of the current 2e lines, unless you consider it's powerlevel a problem.

>>55279122
Yeah but WoD is a special case of broken. Right up there with Shadowrun

>>55278060
So Geists get some key from grave yard that makes them immune to stun and knockdown but its not a innate ability.

Mummy says they cant be knocked out from a blow but has nothing about immune to being stunned.

Fact checking 101

Geist 2e when

>>55279433
Giests get a key but if you read earlier it's says geists can't be stunned or knocked out because of their g eist making that key pretty useless at first level
>>55279504
Who cares since Dave will nerf them anyway. He has said multiple times that sin eaters are too overpowered

>>55278794
Look if you can put your teeth on a 7th or 6th gen and not have them crush your face with 6-7 strength and 6-7 potence in their asscheeks, good luck to you.

>>55279627
I've done it before! But our group was a Sabat pack and the Lasombra multigrappled him for a pretty much instant win. Good ol LARPs.

>>55279677
Jesus Christ people actually Larp in this thread? I literally can't think of a more autistic and cringeworthy hobby.

>>55279619
>Who cares since Dave will nerf them anyway. He has said multiple times that sin eaters are too overpowered
Dave as in DaveB? Doesn't sound like something he would say, honestly. And would he even have the authority?

>>55279744
Is roleplaying at a table considered LARP?

Or does one have to gain 300 pounds and put on some shoddy goth makeup/attire to do it?

>>55279619
He didn't say they were overpowered, just that their capabilities were rather inconsistent. I might as well try to find the comment.

>>55279804
Thats code for NERF THE SHIT OUT OF IT

>>55279914
Is it? Because Awakening being made more consistent gave it a pretty substantial buff.

>>55279954
It depends on what one means by 'consistent', I suppose.

Though it did sound like they were going to tone Geist down.

>>55275210
We don't know.

Honestly even when it comes out, I expect this general to have devolved into a state beyond even the levels of /b/.

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>>55278972
>The only Mage edition to properly work out of the box without any issues is Awakening 2e
>>55279000
>It's not perfect the rules for imbued items and artifacts are kind of vague for my taste.
>>55279039
>There are just a few too many unanswered questions since there aren't any supplements or anything


DaveB is just one small Mage FAQ away from near CofD perfection, yet the fans still wait and wonder.

Dave is a cruel reptilian bastard.

>>55280176
Giving us all wizard blue balls is the final act in the Komodo's plan for ascension as the iron seal of mage shitposting.

The clever bastard.

>>55280176
Dave's sariras will enable whoever finds it to complete his work.

I'm trying to run a mage the Ascension game for new players, How do i get them into their characters paradigms so they can roleplay their magic and not just use the weird sphere system that ruins the feel of it?

>>55280572
Tell them they have to use Magic thematically, or it doesn't work.

>>55280596
So i'm pretty much stuck having to get them to read the books?

>>55280610
Stab them in the dick when they say. I just use magic

I think the ultimate question posed by this thread is, how do I talk about mage and not look like a total cunt?

I mean Ive been rereading the rules over and over in prep for when the stars align, my players rise from their eternal slumber and necromancers bring their dead assess to life so we can play a game.in my readings I have noticed things.

Divination doesn't provide context in its examples. Just a string of events. Meaning that you get "Jim shoots you" but no WHY. You can get a link on Jim and look into his future to find something but you still have no definite way of knowing without getting into spell sniping range and using a different spell.

Postcognition lets you see what happened like you were already there. Which means if your not listening into a past conversation or other time sensitive tid bit your doing something Investigation skills(not just the one skill, you know actually being a good researcher/detective) already does. So good job your totally worth the time.

Interconnections Isn't nearly as good as you guys made it out to be. Its not self cast, its cast a group of SUBJECTS(Also withstood) and lets you spend a TURN for each SUBJECT getting their connections, possessions and destinies. With again NO CONTEXT.
"That man and his gun have a strong connection!"
Is it a murder weapon or just something he holds a fondness for?
"Better start playing the game"

Context is king and all the "OMG BROKEN OP" detection spells don't really give any. These seam more like investigative aids rather then world ending "HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I"M A GOD PLEASE LOVE ME DAVE"

Is there any other broken OP detection spells I'm missing? I'm getting worried its just the players are total dick heads, not the game...

>>55280656
>what is a verbena!

>>55280572
>>55280596
I just tell my players to stay in theme and whenever they say "I cast X" I ask them to describe how. Its not always perfectly in line, but its pretty cool.

I have a Hermetic who filled a bucket with water or looks in car windows or his pocket watch's reflection to scry people.

So lets say you have a player whose playing as an Akashic, and he says "I want to use Forces 3 to shoot lightning at someone."

Just ask him how he does it, and get him to give a bit of a response like

"I open the Heart Chakra" or "I focus my chi through my fingers" or whatever.

>>55280679
Divination's +1 reach effect should give some context, though it also depends on what the mage asks. Without the reach you cant get "Jim shoots you" anyway only "Yes/No/Irrelevant". If asking "Will i get shot?", the reply with reach should be along the lines of "Jim will shoot you today for sleeping with his wife."

Interconnections can totally be cast on yourself and you can choose to not withstand it. By default its also only 1 target like every other spell. Correspondence is far better to see sympathetic links though and it will give more context too sicne he understands the connection as the target see's them, so will see a fondness for the gun or mah killing tool.

Remember mages also have access to knowing spells, they can use these to "know" things.

>>55280806
>I get my players to ask "ST may I" cos i am a cunt.

>>55280855
Le autist anon who just wants to scream they uses 3 dots in forces to cast a fireball.

>>55280707
>verbena
are awesome. Classic witch craft. But I meant in meat space. Stab them right in the dick. Purple paradigm is retarded

>>55280855
>Asking someone to fluff their Effect is playing "ST may I"

Why even play Ascension over Awakening if you're not going to fluff your cool occulty stuff? One time I had a nun NPC Ally with Matter who destroyed the walls into a Technocracy complex the party needed to get inside by marching around them seven times.

I have another player who made a shrine maiden and has looked up actual shinto practices to incorporate into his abilities.

>>55280855
>I can't even be bothered to conceptualise how I perform Magic in a game all about how you conceputalise Magic

>>55280900
Isnt the point that it doesnt even matter anyway though?

Once your arete is high enough you "learn" that paradigms are just for assholes and you dont need one?

Or you know you can just play Awakening like civilized people.

>>55280897
>marching around them seven times.
Getting ALL Old Testament up in here

Look at all the Ascenionfags crawling out of the wood work to defend "Muh Paradigm".

>>55280932
1. Your confusing paradigm with foci

2. I personally ignore the "abandon foci" rule because I prefer the Mages be thematic. I'm not a fan of Awakening-style magic because it doesn't feel like magic unless you use a bunch of Yantras, it just feels like reality-hacking.

>>55280958
>unless you use yantras?

Why wouldn't you use a least one Yantra? You can ask also your players how it fits with whatever they are trying to do too. It just doesnt totally cuk them if they cant find/think of one.

>>55280992
>cuck them if they can't think of one

There is zero excuse to not being able to fluff your spells when the Hermetics have "I speak a magic spell", Choristers have "I pray for it" and most of the other paradigms have similar cop-outs. Pretty much every faction has a cop-out answer if you can't think of interesting fluff.

>>55280842
My statement about Divination was based on the example provided. page 186 for reference.
Player asks:“Will Anna marry?”
ST responds with:“Anna will meet an old flame, Jason, and the two will reunite and one day marry.”

In the above example it lets you infer a context; love in this case but notice the wording. Its a string of events with no WHY in them.

Anna meets her old flame. Later they marry.

yes, it is implied there is love but the lack of a direct statement is a powerful tool. Make no mistake I am in no means belittling you or your opinion but the spell as presented is too juicy to pass up. With the lack of context presented it allows assumptions, and wiggle room in prophecy making along with a stop gap of hesitation that keeps players from sitting in their swivel chairs plotting who their going to punish before anything happens.

Anna meets her old flame. Later they marry.

Do they love each other? Are they happy together? Is he a vampire, and this whole thing exists to hold together his fragile psyche? Was it a marriage of convenience? For insurance money? So his parents don't realize hes gay?

By lacking a direct statement of context the spell is, at least in my opinion, far more healthy then the alternative, which now gives out peoples motivations with every single question, which as a reminder, you can get quiet a few with each casting.

All in all I believe the spell shouldn't tack on context, on the grounds that it makes the other knowing spells less relevant, and its giving away far too much too quickly with a single turn of effort, at least compared to every other spell of its level.

Because honestly, if I could look into a man's future and find most his current and future motivations in a single turn why the hell would I use anything else?

>>55274255
The idea of a Nameless getting 'adopted' by the local supernatural community in a mage-lite area sounds amazing all of a sudden. Everyone spinning lies to keep him bouncing between 2-4 communities and doing what they want.

>>55277988
>>55278575
It's cool. Dave will tickle your balls in just the way you like, deep throat too. No gag reflex. Not to mention literally infinite shitposting.

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>>55278073
Here you are, anon. This might be a bit more to the point for your shitposting purposes.

>>55281153
Butt hurt changeling fag detected. Sit back and Accept your supreme overlord dick. Acanthus cuck true fae out of their own realms without even trying

>>55280234
Guys. What if *moot* was Awakened, and he only sold 4chan and PRETENDED to get cucked by his girlfriend and tumblr BECAUSE it was his final noumenon fucking with the universe?

I just can't think of what that noumenon would be, unless it was something about absolute perfection in the craft of faggotry as an electronic entity.

Do gay vampires need to use lube?

>>55281643
Why would you ask that

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>>55280679
>>55281153
Gee, I think you're just retarded.

>>55281672

Roleplay

>>55281643
What do you think?

>>55281643
Vampires only feel pain from sunlight, fire and other forms of lethal/aggravated damage.

>>55281643
Just use blood like the gays do in real life.

W-Wr20 is on the way, right?

>>55282139
no

>>55278764
>Not being a middle eastern assassin vampire.

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>>55282145
Mean

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>>55281355
That's going in the WoD folder. Cheers Anon

>>55282335
poor sad ghost

Okay, I know we've established that Leeches who feed from Mages gets a brief burst of (Ruling Arcana) Mage Sight and see the Supernal Realm of that particular Mage...and that this is horrible while feeding from a Scelstus isn't...But what would happen if a Vampire was to feed from a Banisher or one of the Mad (You know, one of the Mages where "The bounce has gone from his bungee.".)

>>55282466

The visions appear to relate to Path and Legacy, not whether the mage is a Seer, Pentacle, Banisher, Scelestus, or anything else.

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>>55282388
This isn't as good, but one more.

>>55282466
Have you seen what happens to folk who get mage sight that dont normally?

Go read Primes Apocalypse spell, it can literally burn somebodies eyes out if the duration lasts long enough.

Which is why i think its now non canon that anything weird happens when you drink from a a mage, mage blood is normal blood unless somehow infused with magic.

>>55282399
I just want my book. It's been so long.

>>55282609
ie there is nothing detectable in mage blood that identifies that blood as a mages.

It obv doesnt contain mana since draining blood from a mage does not diminish his mana supply, or does it have any other speshal properties.

Vampire fags just want an excuse to drain mages and get something from it.

>>55282621
Wraith30 is going to be awesome anon, don't worry.

>>55282609
Nah, it's canon. It's just not as extreme. Or maybe it is.

>>55282646
I have no body yet you wound me, anon

>>55282671

Is the vampires get mage sight thing in the Mage 2e book or an actual post by Dave?

>>55282724
no and no

Is VtM Bloodlines worth playing?

t. new to WoD

>>55282724
It's 1e. It may or may not be 2e.

>>55282799
Properly patched yes.

Just dont consider it a bible for VtM

>>55282799
Bloodlines is awesome. It's worth at least three play throughs: normal clan, Malkavian, and Nosferatu

>>55282799
It doesn't have mages in it

It's not worth playing

I too am new. What's a good way to get into WoD? Old new? Vampire Werewolf? I'm a bit intimidated by Mage after being on these threads for a few days.

>>55282843
>It's 1e. It may or may not be 2e.

Where in 1e? The core, supplement, Dave post, etc.?

Do you have a screencap?

>>55282954
Chronicles, Ignore oWoD.

Find a group, play in group or forever gm for a group.

Question for /wodg/: What would be a good city in England to run a VtM campaign set in the early Victorian Era that ISN'T London?

I'm trying to find out for a campaign I'm about to run. Basically it's set in 1847 and I'm using the Cholera Epidemic of the time as a backdrop. The PCs will be fledglings trying to survive in a time where the Elders blame the their lessers for spreading the disease. Anarchs are rumoured to be plague dogs and entire herds are wiped out y the illness. This creates opportunity- and danger- for the Coterie to make their mark in.

I just don't want to set it in London, since it's overdone. I was thinking Brighton, with it's steel industry and what not, but I'm not from the UK, so I don't know much about it.

Any suggestions?

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>>55283025
For a change of pace from the typical urban backdrop, why not do a victorian game in the countryside? Either find or make up a small coastal town in rural England and go nuts.

>>55282849
I have the GoG version, which I understand uses unofficial patch 9.7, but I've heard of a "plus" patch and I'm confused about what that does

>>55283046
That's not a terrible idea, although I'm not sure it would hold to the Cholera plots as much as I'd like it to. I mean, if this tiny coastal town- let's call it, I dunno, Narrowchapel- got an outbreak of Cholera, the Coterie would be absolutely fucked. All their kine would die or be otherwise useless to feed off of. And urban local would provide the devastation, but without making the logistics completely impossible.

Then again, Narrowchapel would provide good fodder for a more personal game. The kine would be people the Coterie knew in life, and maybe I could throw in a subplot where the townsfolk mix up the rumours of blood-sucking monsters with the disease itself for a Mercy Brown situation.

>>55282987
It was mentioned in the core as a minor quirk or something. I think it was also mentioned a second time in another supplement.

>>55279627
If you get a mage to help you out, can you use Diablerie on what is now a lawn chair?

>>55283341
Yes.

>>55275180
On the one hand, I'm vaguely disappointed that this is almost literally just Requiem 1st edition again.

On the other hand, that's probably the closest we'll get to Requiem 2nd edition without the superfluous Onyx Path bullshit. I really wish there was some kind of middle ground.

That means some idiot is going to try to turn Caine into a lawn chair.

>>55283717
I prefer to view it as the vampire is already a lawn chair, and I'm just using magic to help bring out the inner lawn chair that was there all along.

>>55283731
>In every way but physical, I am a lawn chair.

>>55283717
It would take an Archmage to turn Caine into a lawn chair

Or maybe not

Are CofD Archmages stronger than OWoD Archmages?

>>55275097
>Whats the dumbest thing White Wolf/OPP ever did?

Thats a long list son:

1) Didnt black list Goatboy Brucatto.
2) Put a stupid RPG about dog & cats that over their money makers.
3) Make Beast.
4) Make mage.
5) Let DaveB weight on inter-splat conflict.

>>55277581

One of the few good things about M20, no archmage wankery, now if we could have the same thing for Awakening.

>>55284631
I still think that Beast is a near perfect example of interesting ideas getting absolutely mangled by horrifically bad execution.

>>55283603
>superfluous Onyx Path bullshit
What do you mean?

>>55284716
It's pure bait.

>>55284683

from what I heard
Didn't the second book in the game line make things less crap?

>>55284809
You're talking about Conquering Heroes? Hell no.

>>55284841
>Conquering Heroes
Ah yes, the book that introduced such wonderful antagonists as a bomb obsessed nutcase, Ersatz Black Manta (Basically take Black Manta and remove anything remotely interesting about him.) and a thing who leaks, shits and cums eggs.

Also Null Snyper.

>>55285208
On the plus side, it did give us Not!Dexter, probably the best thing to unironically come out of Beast thus far.

I love how the better a Hero idea is in best, the more it makes you wonder whether it was intentional. All the good ones feel like "this is either what a Hero should always have been and wasn't or what they never should have been but are".

>>55285248
That's because there's such a massive gap between the intended purpose of Heroes and what is very obviously their real purpose. They're EXPLICITLY INTENDED to be thought-provoking commentary on the traditional hero-monster cycle, tragic and insane figures consumed by the desire to hunt down something that may not deserve hunting but disguising their selfish motivations with a thin veneer of nobility. This is a moderately cool idea.

They're PRACTICALLY INTENDED to be pathetic "take that"s to people the developers don't like starring in juvenile revenge fantasies by which they're unquestionably and cartoonishly evil without actually threatening the protagonists, so you can torment them at your leisure while feeling justified.

That means that when you happen upon a Hero that is genuinely sympathetic, has an interesting background, is legitimately dangerous and would make a cool antagonist (Sleeping Beauty, blogger chick, the aforementioned Not!Dexter, etc.) you're kind of a thematic bind (not that you got anyone else to blame if you've decided to play Beast) because they're not selfish, evil and shallow enough to be what Heroes were meant to but neither are they pathetic, infantile and incompetent enough to be what they were made to be.

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-night-horrors-conquering-heroes/

This goes into some depth.

>>55285248
>>55284683

>tfw when you want to run Beast but with clear antagonistic Beasts and Heroes but the name is so cancerous no one will want to play.

>>55285248
>>55285290
You know what's the common thread to all of what you call "good Hero ideas"?

They're all Hunter ideas.

>>55285333
Hunter is the superior splat.

Does anyone knows if Beast talks about Hunters?

>>55285432
Everyone in the WoD was forced to like Beasts. Hunters hunt them but they they hate Heroes more because bullshit.

Heroes since Heroes represent someone who is utterly lost to the Vigil, which is a bad thing, but apparently worse than the pure evil beings causing horror and trauma.

>>55275180
How does the playtester packets and the clan merits in the game section of the site mix? How can I use them?

>>55285451
So hunters treat heroes as slayers or similar?
How much chanche has a hunter to kill a beast? Hunters manuals have powers/items catared to the different supernatural, but Beast is much more recent. So I imagine they don't have anti-beast capabilities.

>>55285490
>So I imagine they don't have anti-beast capabilities.
There's a web supplement called "Tooth & Claw" that covers that. There's even a Conspiracy that uses Inception style dream machines to do Nightmare on Elm Street style dream combat against the Beasts.

>>55285490
Beasts die fairly easily iirc, though i couldn't get through the shit show of a Core.

So high explosives and any Endowments would probably fuck one up royally, if not kill them. The issue is they've got a lot of skills for hiding since their primary enemy is technically a Hunter, albeit an insane one, acting alone, who doesn't have the literally power of God backing them.

>>55285528
Nice I always wanted to play freddy.

>>55285541
I thought beast were tough.
Explosives hurt more or less everything, from personal game experience.

>>55285606
I mean in a 1-1 fight the Hunters are fucked, but that's the point of Hunter.

If we're thinking general threat level I'd say a full Cell could easily take out a Beast with the kind of pre-planning Hunters do for everything. They're probably less of a threat that a Werewolf, about equal to a medium strength Vampire, but they're very solitary so that makes it easier.

>>55285649
I understood, hunters don't hunt alone.
So beasts are pretty shit, uh?

I don't remember which book it was in, but how do people feel about the "alternative" setting of Mage, where there are only 5 true souls?

And every being in existence is a fractured reincarnation of one of the Oracles?

>>55285692
Mmmmhm, they're psychological predators more than anything else, and Hunters tend towards violence.

Similar situation with Changelings, they go down easy when you can get a hit in, but they're tricksy fuckers to get there in the first place. And sometimes after .

>>55280992
Yeah there's literally no reason not to use your reflexive yantra. Shit, I'm even toying with the idea of letting High Speech be a one turn yantra for simple spells, you just say a short little word like an incantation and it gets you a +1 instead of a +2. The +2 is for more complicated spells and would take another turn.

>>55285432
>Does anyone knows if Beast talks about Hunters?
Iirc there's something along the lines of "Hunters don't regard Beasts as harmful, and would rather spend their time hunting truly dangerous things like Heroes".

>>55285793
That's like, one group of Hunters.
Most of the rest would put them down like the monsters they are.

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>>55285692
The guy you are talking about doesn't really know much about beasts. The average beast is more than a match for a werewolf and far outstrips most vampires. Easy aggravated damage, aoe attacks, hulk level strenght, powerful nightmares that will fuck any hunter up such as "BEHOLD MY TRUE FORM". And best of all the incredible power and versatility of lairs.

>>55282954
New is much easier to digest, and Mage is very, very poorly represented by these threads. If you want to know what a decent game of Mage looks like, read DaveB's actual plays. I suggest Broken Diamond to start with. 1e's fiction is also pretty good, and so is the Mysterium's. But I would read 2e. Better mechanics, better fluff, more relevant. Boston Unveiled, while 1e and therefore off a bit, provides a very interesting setting for Mage. Cannibals, mystical academies, revolutionary war dreams, fused zombies, Big Momma as a necromancer lich, etc.

But good luck finding a game. I would just get into whatever available game there is, get your feet wet and such.

>>55285814
Wtf, most of the corebook I read had them as angsty teenagers cutting break lines and fucking with people in dreams.

Thought one of the reasons people were pissed at Beast is they didnt get to do anything bestial since it was all metaphysical

>>55285883
Most of their powers involving their form are invisible, yeah.

>>55285898
Well duhh how else are they gonna maintain the masquerade?

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I've not touched my nWod books since I got them in the mid-2000s but I'm thinking of running a game and I'm trying to wrap my head around what's happened since I bought them.

Onyx owns CofD now But White Wolf still own oWoD? Is that it? I'm so confused. Did Onyx fuck it up? Also oWOD or CofD?

>>55286326

Onyx Path does not own CofD. It breaks down like this:

Paradox Interactive bought White Wolf from CCP and made them a functioning subsidiary. White Wolf decided to continue licensing their CofD and Exalted properties to Onyx Path, but is working on WoD in-house. The only White Wolf properties OPP owns outright is Scion and Trinity.

>>55286326
Onyx Path is licensed to publish White Wolf IPs, White Wolf still owns everything. Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how it is. OPP is mainly CofD, and there's some funky shit going on with White Wolf where a Swedish guy is shaking everything up with the oWoD.

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>>55286407
Ah okay, that makes a bit more sense.

>>55286428
I heard something about the Swedish guy on the Ken and Robin podcast. I'm guessing thats the V5 stuff mentioned by >>55275180

I guess I've got some reading to do so I can pick between oWoD and CoD. Thanks Anons.

>>55286485
I would personally recommend to you CofD.

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>>55286546
I want to play Hunter and I already own that book so that was my preference before I go re-read anything.

>>55286629
That's fine, HtV is great and we got Mortal Remains for it early this year which is a great resource just in general.

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>be a powerful Ordo elder with Coil of Zirnitra, Dominate, Prenatural Instinct Devotion and The New Truth Threnody
>gain Tactical Telepathy Merit 5, Supernatural Resistance Merit 5 and some Acanthus-based Proximi Blessings
>buff yourself and your small horde of pawns with things like Shield of Chronos, Constant Presence and Exceptional Luck
>no one can beat your Clash-dicepools, except for tier 4 beings
>even masters are your bitches
>vamps stronk!

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>>55286798
>*turns you into a lawn chair*
>"pssh nothin personnel leech"

How do Rotes work in play?

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>>55286894
>too slow to actually cast it
>just another useful pawn

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>>55286964
You get extra reach for the spell as if you had five dots in the arcanum, always. If it's not in your Ruling arcana, you don't need to pay mana to cast it, ever (unless you would need to pay mana even if it was Ruling, like the Time 3 spell Acceleration).

You get access to a Yantra for that spell only, which adds dice to the spell roll equal to your dots in the associated skill (plus one if it's one of your Order skills). You don't HAVE to use that Yantra, I think, but you'd be a fool not to in almost every circumstance, because it goes up to six dice, while most Yantras are either one or two.

>>55287175
I can't seem to find in the book how many rotes can you have?

>>55287025
Mind control doesn't work on the Wise because we can restore our patterns.

I've been out of the loop for some time, is M20 Book of Secrets worth a read or is it full of Crazy Uncle Phil sidebars like the main book ?

>>55287453
For Awakening 2e, you can choose 3 at character creation. It used to be six dot's worth of Rotes, but in the errata they just changed it to 3. I don't think there's a limit to how many you can buy with xp.

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>>55287488
>we
>our

>>55287523
Just a typo mister guardian just a typo!

>>55287488
But that isn't reflexive.
And useless against The New Truth anyway.

>>55287508
Is there a list of this errata?

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>>55287726

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>>55287820
Oops

>>55287726
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9UUZ4UjZJdEhIM2c/view

>>55287820
I suppose I'm flattered you saved my character, for whatever reason.

>>55278204
In 20th you can start a new path after getting 2 dots in your first, and can't exceed your first path score with another. So you could have Path of Blood 3/Lure of Flames 2

>>55287858
Don't I saved it to show my friends how not to make a mage.

Rate my mage concept

Name: Roman Sionis
Path: Abyssal Obreimos

Bio: Roman was awakened at birth due to being born in the Abyss. Because of such an early awakening his powers developed at an extraordinary rate. Having an intimate knowledge of the abyss allows him to cast magic with out occurring paradox. Because of this he is wanted by both the Orders and the Seers.

Listen and listen well.
"The abyssal pools that are his eyes echo the dark night skies.
The cold voice rings with death, bringing forth despair.
He of cold blood, who forsakes everything for might.
Who released this beast that knows neither compassion nor pain?"

>>55287895
Glad I could help.

>>55287974
>Roman
Does he like bowling?

>>55287974
>>55287974
Try harder

>>55287992
Nah he doesn't have time for mundane games. He does enjoy watching arthouse and Indie films.
>>55288069
What is wrong with it?

Is there a version of the Independent Income merit somewhere in 20th Anniversary? I remember it being in Demon and Hunter, but I'm chasing up a more recent version if there is one.

One of my players wants to play a cripple living on an insurance payout.

What's the main draw of Forsaken? I'm reading through it, or at least trying to. Nothing about it has really grabbed me. The auspices are even kind of off-putting, somehow. I don't think I could put my finger on it.

>>55288304
It's ok someone in the world has to have shit taste.

>>55277963
>>55278011
>1/10 bait.

Apply yourself.

>>55285290

I think beast is a "redeemable" game.
The issue is in the fluff, and not all of it.

Interestingly a person who has monster's soul has been done before, in different games.
I think there was the dragonborn in skyrim for instance.

Change stuff around a bit and it makes more sense.
Possible example?:
If a beast says what they are doing is meant to teach, it is just some excuse they are saying just to try justify their actions.
Or maybe some they think that they are teaching humanity it's "proper place" under their feet

>>55285869

Where would I find a game of mage online?

>>55288988
Yeah just make beast the evil splat. We need an unambiguous evil splat or at the very least make them more ambiguous and make heroes more heroic and not just Saturday morning villains

IIRC most wod splats make more sense (or are intended to be as) if you take the morality statements to be subjective.
specifically subjective from the point of view of the main group of the book.

Vampires say we are good, and. Hunters say people munching on humans is bad.

>>55289409
Normally I would agree but at the very least leeches can at least prey on people without harming them.

>>55288304
The main draw are: disadvantages, spirit world interaction and badass cop adventure.
Narrative languages like spirit world and fae contracts are the best thing in wod and rpgs in general.
This opinion allowed me to have fun everytime while friends of mine spent time complaining.

>>55288304
What is wrong with auspices? It's what allow werewolf to have classes without having classes.

>>55289454

I think there are some ways for beasts to feed that aren't really harmfull. it would probably depends on how tightly you interpret their requirements.

>>55289454
>prey on people without harming them
Drinking blood from people is still harming them.

>>55289293

I think it should be varied basically.

Like if you have a hero fighting a beast, it shouldn't be automatically assumed "the beast is the persecuted innocent" or the other way around.

It should depend on case by case.

Maybe both of them are terrible people

IIRC there are myths where a monster isn't killed by a hero but rather they resolve the conflict peacefully.

Like the tarrasque and that christian saint, where the saint sings to it or something and calms it down. Although in that case the tarrasque ends up getting killed by people who are scared of it, because it doesn't fight back at that point.

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>>55289699
How much harm is losing some of your vitae? Do you take wound penalties? How long until you're back to full?

>>55289823
Yeah I like your idea better

>>55289021
Wish I knew. Just put yourself out there, I guess.

>>55289858
This picture will never not annoy me

>>55289505
I know what they're meant to do. Just something about the meat of them strikes me as being off.

>>55289678

I wonder if being employed as a lawyer or Judge would work to feed.

>>55289914
Yeah, pretty much any kind of dick move can be worked into a Hunger. One of the examples they gave for a Hunger was screwing people over to advance your career.

>>55289899
Because it's as real as it gets?

>>55286798
That's all very specific and situational. While a Mage can put in lesser effort to counter that and so much more.

>>55290453
How do you figure? The average master mage will get destroyed by that elder

Don't respond to the bait

>>55282799
>>55282861

God yes. Play Tremere as your 'normal' playthrough, just because their haven is less of a fucking hassle to get to than the sunset apartments. Also blood boil is great.

>>55290590
I'm sure

:^)

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>>55287489
Chock full of crazy.

>>55289899
>Not wanting to play Gulf War: Desert Honor or Assault and Battery IV

AnB IV was the first of the modern era of that franchise and company you mong. Or do you hate Fistful of Bullets because it was a western too?

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>>55286798
>vampire needs supernal magic to beat supernal wizards

I guess it takes a wizard to beat a wizard

Just ignore the bait

>>55290925
>>55290622
Shut the fuck up triggered mage fag

>>55284654
Except that isn't even true, its just another rule not listed in the book despite being mentioned.

>>55290677
Holy shit apparently the last chapter is full on Crazy Phil ramblings.
Does nobody proofread this ? How the fuck did it get greenlit ?

>>55291311
RichT is a fucking retard who doesn't know how to run a company. That's how.

>>55291145
Fuck off triggered changeling fag

>>55291311
Crazy Phil is going to be an NPC in my next Mage campaign

This general is in severe need of severe moderation.

Anyone got that 'Black-Dog' parody for Bruccato?

>>55291554
Welcome to 4chan Reddit FAGGOT

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Nvm, found it.

>>55291554
Why? Because we talk about shit you're not interested in? I laugh at you, Anon. I laugh a mighty laugh.

>>55291649
Jules Brucattio seems like a more grounded and stable man then the real Phil.

>>55291649
That's hilarious.

At least the worst writers are good comedy material

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>>55291429
I am a beastfag you triggered sweaty mage piece of shit!

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>>55291990
>Liking teenage power fantasy victim blaming the game

>>55292146
Dude what?

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What can we do to fix Mage?

>>55291429
Someone should do a "virgin mage vs. CHADgeling" meme.

>>55292483
>What can we do to fix Mage?

All we need is the Mage FAQ and less whining by the other jealous splat fan snowflakes, and we're good to go.

>>55292783
Mage FAQ:
Fuck everyone else

Done

>>55292483
Just rebalance higher levels of play, probably by lessening what exceptional successes can do to a spell.

>>55286798
Master of Space ejects you and your haven out of this reality. Have fun dying from hunger.

>>55292483
Give everything supernatural additional Withstand - half of their power stat. No ignoring Withstand on ES. Make Paradox more dangerous. That's more than sufficient.

>>55293239
That would require a complete rework of the current system to be viable.

>>55293417
No it would not mage fag

>>55293417
Nope, it ties in quite nicely, I played it. You usually have more than enough dice from Yantras to spend them on rising Potency. It also forces you to use indirect spells more - you won't kill person with a glance, but will bring down ceiling on him, for example.

>>55293557
You sound like a fag

>>55293633
>le magick man

>>55293633
No, I sound like a person which think that Mages have large dicepools, and it wouldn't hurt them to use them sometimes.

>>55293683
Other splats have higher dicepools. Mages just get better results.

>>55292783
>All we need is the Mage FAQ
The last chapter of the Book of Secrets is called 'Straight-up Magic: The M20 FAQ', and it's 50 (yes, fifty) pages of ramblings by Crazy Uncle Phil.

>>55293239
You would only really need to do that for high level crossover play.

>>55294521
It wouldn't help in the slightest in crossover play.

>>55294624
It would stop Masters from flippantly Unmaking other powerful splat members.

Why is everyone obsessed with combat in crossover? It's not necessarily important.

Mages are fine.

>>55294710
Why would they even need to do that? Do you just assume that the splats are at each other's throats? Moron.

>>55294710
At the Master level using unmaking in combat is just showing off. There are already dozens of withstand free ways of fucking someone over.

>>55294752
Why so hostile? I'm not saying it should be done, or that it's a good thing, just that that's what would be accomplished by removing the Exceptional Success Withstand bypass.

>>55294729
>Lets have these two factions interact
>One is a thousand times stronger then the other and more versatile in every way
>And lets not have all the others just be subservient to this faction or cowering from it.

War is just politics continued by different means. If a court of Vampires or a pack of Werewolves have absolutely no way to counter Mages, then the only way to have them interact and not result in the above is if they very seldom interact and never want anything from each other, which kind of defeats the purpose of having them interact.

>>55294729
Then why don't we talk about, say, investigation then? Or perhaps some political intrigue?

The answer is Time/Fate/Space and Life/Mind, respectively.

>new captcha
What new hell is this?

>>55294803
No. You're just assuming a Cabal wants to domineer a full fledged society of blood-suckers and shape-shifters.

That's not going to be the case, more often than not. Not unless you deem it so.

>>55294857
You don't bring a Spirit Mage to a Werewolf game
You don't bring a Death Mage to a Vampire game
You don't bring a Fate Mage to a Changeling game

It's as simple as that

>>55294803
This is why I'm a sucker for Mages being so obsessed with their Supernal mysteries that they fail to realize a lot of the non-Supernal, but still supernatural aspects, of any shared splat setting.

>>55294902
The Supernal is a way of observing the Fallen

Most Mysteries aren't Supernal in origin.

>>55294902
That's a bit difficult given how prevalent non-Supernal supernaturals are, and that peripheral Mage Sight will trigger from any of their powers.

And given DaveB's comments (that I'm still a bit on the fence about) relating to the populousness of Mage society.

>>55294902
Mages already know that most magic and supernatural shenanigans aren't Supernal in nature. Sorry, guy. It's just that they typcially care more about the Supernal.

The Supernal represents literally everything. This of course does not mean it's responsible for everything and all.

A Mage using the Sight in the Hedge will see the Supernal symbols underlying the place, but they know that it's not of Supernal origin.
Not unless you believe an Archmaster of Fate kick-started Arcadia.

This is why Mages are the kings of information.

>>55294936
What did Dave say about the Awakened population?

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>>55293208
Warding Gesture, son. Just 1 xp for someone with Embolden Potential. Vamps can use magic in the Blood far better than Proximi can even dream.

>>55295018
That they're roughly comparable in population to Werewolves and Changelings.

Rather than the vanishingly small populations that people normally consider, and were in favour in oWoD.
>>55263635

>>55294994
The Hedge isn't Supernal at all though. Mage sight is practically worthless in there. It's not like the shadow or the underworld it's an alien dimension altogether

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>>55295127

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>>55295127
Mage sight describes non-supernal, supernatural phenomena, m8.

The Opacity is just higher, is all.

>>55292146
That still sounds like mage

>>55295576

>>55289678
Family Dinner, depending on how you do it.

>>55292483
Cut it from both lines and stick it with Exalted where it belongs.

It's thematically disjointed from and shares no meaningful storytelling or gameplay similarities with any other WoD or Cod line; so just shove it into its own thing or, again, bundle it with exalted, the other wish fulfillment series that eschews storytelling in favor of Dragonball Z power levels and your character sheet is just the piece of paper where you have your metagaming spell interactions written down.

>>55291311
I think he's got RichT tied up in a basement, fucking him like Pulp Fiction. I can't imagine any other way to explain Mage20.

>>55296932
I really didn't enjoy picturing that in my head.

>>55295068
1 in 15k people is a Werewolf.