In a tabletop game, should there be a point where PC's just

It seems like there's not much point playing the game at that point. Of course, I don't see much point in playing D&D anywhere near 20th level either, so maybe I'm biased. I could see getting to a point where you automatically succeed at normal, mortal shit, as long as you are still challenged by incredible, mythic shit that you regularly encounter.

>>55144263
>Like if you were playing a Level 20 character in D&D, should there be a point where the game basically stops requiring dice rolls because nothing in the game can reasonably challenge you anymore (outside of GM fiat or some shit)?
Uh, sure I guess? I've GMed for high level campaigns. I let them level whole armies without any rolls because using the rules, they would have 5% chance not to instagib soldiers and the soldiers would have 5% chance to slightly scratch them.

But that's only for the lowly enemies. When the Ancient Great Wyrm Brown Dragon arrives, you better have good stats and rolls if you want to survive.

>>55144914
>>55144263
>It seems like there's not much point playing the game at that point.
Isn't Exalted built around this premise?

>>55144263

...Only in a really badly designed game?

Otherwise, you'll have antagonist content designed to challenge characters no matter how powerful they are. As if beyond a certain level of PC power the potential threats become meaningless, that chunk of the game is essentially unplayable and pointless.

I don't even get the logic behind the question.

>>55144263
Depends on the game. Usually, automatic success costs a metanarrative resource in the form of Fate Points, Wildcard Points, etc., which can then be used to pressure characters at another point in time. I, personally, find being able to purchase automatic success really boring. I'd rather the GM just skip past hewing through mooks to the actually important stuff, e.g. "You race through three more floors of the arcology, leaving behind a body trail rivaling the one these fuckers left last week in your 'plex. Halfway up during your ride on the express elevator to the executive suite, you hear the synthetic hiss of the real security team rappelling down the exterior of the glass shaft..."

But should the game ever stop requiring dice rolls outright? I recall there being an OSR game that assumes you hit and it's purely deterministic with damage, but I can't remember the name. Might not even be right. Either way, not my cup of tea.

>>55144263
Yes, it's the point where the DM stops bothering with the combat system abstraction because it's a forgone conclusion.

>>55145017

Seconded.

PCs might hit a point where killing early game ranked enemies is like tying their shoes, but you should have something for them that doesn't just die to them to have the game have any tension.

>>55146980

This might happen at level one when the party successfuly sneaks into the bandits tent and slits the leaders throat.

>>55144263
>In a tabletop game, should there be a point where PC's just never fail or attacks become auto-kills?
During the final, climactic run through the exploding BBEG's base. They've already won the adventure, so I might as well treat them to one final moment of glory after the boss fight.

>>55144263
No, if anything characters should peak, and then decline over time.

The game should end either with them passing on the torch, having failed to accomplish every last one of their dreams, or in a desperate struggle against the inevitable that produces nothing but a withered fruit.

>>55144263
If there's a sufficiently large gap between the PC's and the "threat" I just let them narrate how they defeat them. At that point, they aren't really a combat threat so much as another noncombat RP opportunity.

>>55144263
>Like if you were playing a Level 20 character in D&D, should there be a point where the game basically stops requiring dice rolls because nothing in the game can reasonably challenge you anymore (outside of GM fiat or some shit)?
That's a terrible example because even at level 20 there are plenty of things in D&D that can murder you if you're not careful.

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>>55144263
isnt the whole shonen thing based on this.
>Im evil and strong
>Im good and strong
>Im evil and strongest in the world
>Im good and get my face kicked in
>im good and comeback later after getting stronger
>Im evil and I get my face kicked in
>Im evil too and im stronger then that evil guy even though he was strongest in the world


That being said. I really like low level games. Some of the best time I had in WHRP 1 is when we where on our second to third careers

>>55144263
In my traveller game, most enemies won't fight to the dead and why should they ?
So most enemies will flee/surrender or just stop fighting after they suffered an attack.

Fight to the dead is something reserved for the fanatic, sick or desperate.

So yeah, in general there are situations which don't require every roll for everything.

>>55144263
If the minimum result of your dice roll plus your modifiers matches or exceeds the difficulty, you shouldn't be able to fail. If your game uses a binary pass/fail system without nuance, then you shouldn't have to roll. Example: in D&D, a character with a +14 to Athletics automatically succeeds at any Athletics check with a DC of 15 or less.

In dice pool systems like Shadowrun, there are often optional rules where a character succeeds automatically if they have enough dice. For example, a Street Samurai with 10 six-sided dice in his Stealth skill who is shadowing a suspect shouldn't have to roll if the DC is a 2, since he's almost certainly going to get at least 3 successes.

In my system, rolls aren't binary pass/fail, there's more nuance behind them so you're still rolling until you have a significant numerical advantage. At that point however, your character is powerful enough that you can basically cut down ordinary people in droves and perform superhuman feats because attributes are quadratic, not linear.

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Ever ran a game where killing meanings something.
A line that once crossed cannot be uncrossed.
The very act puts weight on ones soul.

Any mechanics or systems that deal with this?
Sound it even be a thing?
>Im talking sentient beings not animals

I was just thinking about just putting a box on the players sheet that says they have killed.

>>55152115
Well... this was ment to be a new topic....
I done fucked up.