What is it about Archaon that makes him a cool villain whereas

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>>55139528

He's not. He was a joke in WHFB getting his ass headbutted.

And I've seen entire AoS generals erupt in flames about Abbadon and his role in the setting.

Just not particularly popular so he doesn't have a whole lot of penetration in terms of memes etc.

>>55139866

Meant to write Archaon instead of Abaddon for that second line.

>>55139528
It's memes, mostly.

But the primary reason behind it, is that for a decade, Archaon's miniatures was this really badass realistic armored dude on a big horse, whereas Abaddon has always been this dumpy little weirdo with a giant phallic topknot.

This is what allows the memes to thrive: Abbadon just looks goofy.

Then there's the fact that the Eye of Terror campaign ended in such a lukewarm, inconsequential and disappointing way that everybody went "wow, Abbadon's not such a threat after all." which forever undermined his credibility as a villain.

As for the meme, it goes like this:
>Abbadon's end goal is to conquer the Imperium, and none of his Black Crusades achieved that. Therefore he must be incompetent
Which is based on the assumption that every Black Crusade was meant to conquer the Imperium in one blow.

This isn't necessarily something that the creators of the meme actually believed, but everyone had a good laugh, and people invested so much time and effort into making dumb jokes about Abaddon's supposed incompetence that everyone kind of decided to stick to that assumption as if it were canon, and to lash out against GW's attempts to make Abbadon more threatening, because that would go against the fan-lore they poured so much time and effort into. Memers took offense at GW's attempt to contradict their memes.

Kind of like buyer's remorse. Except for dumb jokes that cost you a lot of time.

To be fair, GW's attempts to retcon every black crusade as having achieved a very specific goal was kind of lame: it actually made them seem trivial and narrow in scale compared to how they're described elsewhere, so that didn't help.

So basically GW wrote Abaddon into a corner where nobody will take him seriously unless he annihilates the Imperium, but if he does, everybody will be pissed off because their memes will be contradicted.

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>archaon
>cool
Reminder that this is the latest GW licensed image of archaon in the old world.

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>>55139528
Both of them are hated by bandwagon memerrs but in reality they are both cool.

Archaon is cooler because Abaddon at the end of the day is a petty warlord using a flimsy justification to seat himself on the throne while Archaon desires no wealth, power, or glory for himself. He is an anti-hero who rages at the injustices and wickedness of Chaos even when is ensnared by its evil. His only goal is to end the abomination that is Chaos by destroying all of creation. When there is nothing to feed the Chaos Gods, then what will happen to them? When the last star is extinguished and Chaos is left in the cold dark alone to tear itself to oblivion. Archaon will finally find peace.

He is well written character for warhams that is.

>>55140162
And that's all the fucker deserve for his role in the end time

>>55140136
Let's not forget that most of the "retcons" were written by Aaron Dembski-Bowden who is infamous for trying super hard to humanize Chaos marines to the point where he comes off as a chuuni and a chaos fanboy who writes what amounts to licensed fanfiction (at least that's how the meme goes)
He had already lost some credibility by the point where he expanded the Black Legion lore, so people who already hated him jumped on that opportunity to berate him further by ridiculing what he had written about the Black Legion

>>55140192
I'm pretty fucking sure that's fanfiction you just wrote

or is it some nxtlvl epic trole shitposting?

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>>55140136
Abaddon gets shit talked so hard by a Night Lord that he hauls off and shoots the guy.

Also the 'cool' thing about Archaon is that he's quite possibly the breaking point. Every Chaos incursion by previous warlords was a serious deal, and each one was beaten back, but barely. The last major story one required Elves to teach the Empire how to magic, Kislev, and the Dwarfs with the biggest Empire army mustered in order to defeat it. Unfortunately they very much so forced Archaon in AoS and he lost most of that.

>>55140237
>Aaron Dembski-Bowden

No, ADB was told he could write the Black Legion codex lore if he wanted to but he declined because he had to finish working on his novels. ADB is a novel writer. He doesn't write for GW design studio,

Please take your lies and stupidity elsewhere. Your post is embarrassing to everyone involved.

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>>55140290
>Abaddon gets shit talked so hard by a Night Lord that he hauls off and shoots the guy.

Nope, Abaddon just realised that Talos won't get convinced so he shot him in order tp ush him into the daemon pit so that the four shards of the Chaos Gods would brainwash him.

If he wanted Talos dead, Talos would be a gorey mess before he even could blink.


>>55140257
This and the one above. Why do you hate reading the lore?

Picture related.

>>55140292
>>55140336
Well, Carnac's here to defend his waifu, pack it in till next thread.

>>55139528
He tried to destroy the world once and succeeded, Abaddon tried it 13 times and failed each time.

/lit/-villain vs /co/-villain

>>55140573
>Abaddon tried it 13 times and failed each time.

Wrong. None of the 13 times were about destroying the galaxy. The 1st Black Crusade was just one single warband adventuring in hostile Imperium looking for a sword of legend. You are seriously retarded enough to think that one warband is capable of destroying the Imperium

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>>55139528
>What is it about Archaon that makes him a cool villain

His original model.

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>>55140785
His new model was voted by players as the best model of 2015.

>>55139528
1. His old model is fucking fantastic, one of the best sculpts GW has ever produced.

2. Prior to the shitty End Times and AoS fluff, Archaon was an intimidating, seemingly unstoppable, faceless monster in the same vein as Darth Vader.

3. Archaon hasn't tried his shit thirteen fucking times.

4. Archaon never got his arms ripped off by a Carnifex. It's hard to be intimidating without arms.

>>55139866
>And I've seen entire AoS generals erupt in flames about Abbadon and his role in the setting.

Because AoS fluff is drivel.

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>>55140806

The same people who voted for the Riptide?

>>55140237
this
shitty novels plus GW trying to push Abaddon as a badass. It's just trying to hard. Honestly the best rendition of him was in Battlefleet Gothic, he actually was a threat, achieved his objective mostly and pulled off some crazy victories.

>>55140851
>Archaon was an intimidating, seemingly unstoppable, faceless monster in the same vein as Darth Vader.

No, he wasn't. He was viewed as joke. Eat a dick.

>Archaon hasn't tried his shit thirteen fucking times.

Yes, he did. He campaigned around the world looking for the treasures of Chaos as well as uniting the Chaos Gods. It's the same as Abaddon did.

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>>55140851
>Archaon was an intimidating, seemingly unstoppable, faceless monster
That was the intent (and the model is quite great), but archaon was an abject failure until they took events out of the hands of the playerbase and wrote him being the most powerful thing ever and killing the universe because dad didn't love him enough

he wears a helmet

>>55141071
>Yes, he did. He campaigned around the world looking for the treasures of Chaos as well as uniting the Chaos Gods.

That's not really the same thing as trying to attack the Imperium thirteen times.

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>>55139528
Oh look it's another "Carnac shits up another thread by Throwing out the same Chaosfag arguments and Cherry-picking Lore autism that have been countered a thousand times before in previous threads" episode.

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>>55141113
This version of ol' armless isn't bad.

GW has been trying hard to make Abaddon seem threatening again since 6th edition.

>Chaos is now the main baddie 100%, xenos are always side issues
>Novel series shows him as a badass who won't bow to the Chaos Gods as Horus did
>Emperor prophecies that Abaddon will kill him one day
>Drach'nyen is a far more powerful daemon than was originally the case, basically the doom of humanity incarnate due to its symbolic representation of the emotional backlash from the first murder
>All the Black Crusades were building up to the 13th in 6th edition
>In 8th edition, all the black crusades had a secret objective to destroy pylons for the crimson path. Secret goal nobody but Abby and his inner circle knew. Thus even defeats were just as planned
>He finally destroys Cadia

/tg/ still lives in the old days of armless and his 13 failed attempts to get through the cadian gate tho.

Archaeon is a more interesting character who doesn't get memed anywhere near as much. He also doesn't have to get his character reworked or his achievements retconned every few years to try and fix his incompetence, making it look even worse.

Abaddon is your good old evil lord who wants to rule the galaxy.

Archaeon is using Chaos to try and destroy the world and kill the Chaos gods almost like that dumb ass alien council the Alpha Legion meet in the HH books.

>>55141177
Would look better with a helmet but yeah he looks cool

>>55140806
It's cool, but no Slaanesh triggers me.

Archaeon is a more interesting character who doesn't get memed anywhere near as much. He also doesn't have to get his character reworked or his achievements retconned every few years to try and fix his incompetence, making it look even worse.

Abaddon is your good old evil lord who wants to rule the galaxy.

Archaeon is using Chaos to try and destroy the world and kill the Chaos gods almost like that dumb ass alien council the Alpha Legion meet in the HH books. He's got a more interesting character and isn't just some stereotypical edgy evil guy.

>>55140136
>So basically GW wrote Abaddon into a corner where nobody will take him seriously unless he annihilates the Imperium, but if he does, everybody will be pissed off because their memes will be contradicted.
>because their memes will be contradicted.
yeah, that would be the main problem with the IoM being wiped out: our memes being contradicted

>>55141225
>Archaeon is a more interesting character
Was.

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>>55140785
>original model

>>55141225
>He also doesn't have to get his character reworked or his achievements retconned every few years to try and fix his incompetence
Well I mean, they did do just that.

If anything archaon's whole transition from early WHFB/6e form to his eventual end times/AoS form was a trial run for what abaddon is going through right now.

>>55141143
>That's not really the same thing as trying to attack the Imperium thirteen times.

It is the same thing. Abaddon traveled around the galaxy attacking everyone in his way in order to collect favour, treasures, and unite Chaos. Archaon did the same as Abaddon did. He attacked the empire, Elves, Cathay, etc until he thought he was ready to launch his invasion.

>>55141266
Is.

>>55141223
He was a symbol of Slaanesh on his shield. There is no Slaanesh head because Slaanesh was kidnapped before shir could sent her champion to challenge Archaon.

>>55141225
just about every character in WHFB is better than 40k character counterparts.

Archaon > Abaddon
Teclis > Eldrad
Malekith > Vect
Settra > Sezarkh
Sigmar > Emperor

The only exception is Ghazghkull who's probably cooler than Grimgor

The setting was more nuanced and well-constructed too. Shame GW had to go and torpedo it all for fantasy 40k

>>55141440
I know the reason, it's just dumb not to give it a Slaanesh head. We all know why GW is trying to sidestep Slaanesh and it's because he's less child friendly

>>55140403
I thought Be'Lakor is Carnacs waifu

>>55140623

The essential problem is that word crusade comes with some huge fucking expectations attached. The crusades weren't "let's do this mission to make the bigger mission easier", they were "we taking the holy land/neighboring states NOW, DEUS VULT". So anything less than actually conquering large swaths of the imperium looks pathetic. But if GW were to let there be actually some interplay of contested ground whereby chaos take some ground and then the imperium purifies or takes it back for a while, then it makes the vaunted "inevitability" of chaos look silly. They've backed themselves into a corner where chaos never can have real defeats, but if they win, it's game over, so chaos just does nothing at all ultimately.


Veeeeeeeeeeeeeery sloooooowly.

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>>55141515
>Archaon in AoS as Archaon the Forever Everchosen and Grand Marshal of the Apocalypse
>Malekith in AoS as Malerion God of Shadow
>Teclis is in AoS as Teclis God of Magic and knowledge
>Settra nobody cared about Settra before the End Times
>Sigmar is in AoS as Sigmar God King of Azyr and Warrior King of the Free Peoples

So you have nothing to complain about.

>>55141515
Emps was only recently ruined by >Black library

the rest of the list is correct

>>55141598
>The essential problem is that word crusade comes with some huge fucking expectations attached.

The Black Crusades is a term invented by the Imperium for Abaddon sorties/raids out of the Eye. The Black Legion didn't name what they were doing Crusades.

You seriously think that Imperium terminology is accurate? You think the Eldar and Tau name their tanks and equipment on extinct Terran lifeforms? Seriously, man.

Archaon got his own shit done.

Abaddon picked up the pieces Horus left behind.

Archaon is cooler because he is Horus.

>>55141664
> The Black Legion didn't name what they were doing Crusades.

Source

>You think the Eldar and Tau name their tanks and equipment on extinct Terran lifeforms

Double source to prove that they don't, nigger.

>>55141670
Somewhere, ADB just got really angry and he doesn't know why.

>>55140162
That looks like Total War.

>>55141670
>Archaon got his own shit done.

Archaon wouldn't have succeeded without Be'lakor's help.

>Abaddon picked up the pieces Horus left behind.

Horus left nothing but ashes and shame for Abaddon. Abaddon built himself from the zero up. Abaddon forced the hand of fate to choose him. Archaon was born with the brass spoon of ruinous destiny in his mouth.

>Archaon is cooler because he is Horus.

Actually, Archaon is cool because he is not special. He is just regular guy screwed by the game of gods and daemons.

>>55141689
>Source

"Black Legion".

>Double source to prove that they don't, nigger.

The Tau 3th and 4th ED ED codex. They are Imperial designation for Tau suits.

And please no racism.

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>BL : As well as your Archaon novels, you're also known amongst Black Library readers for your Horus Heresy fiction. But who would win in a fight between Archaon and a primarch?

>RS : "Going to upset some folks either way on this one! I think it has to be Archaon. Think about it this way. All of the traitor primarchs were primarchs like their loyalist brothers before they turned to Chaos – and yet they still turned. They were the princes of the galaxy, the generals of colossal armies and the product of genetic engineering that bestowed upon them incredible gifts and abilities. Yet still about half of them turned to the Ruinous Powers. As the Everchosen of the Chaos gods, Archaon is ruin incarnate. He is chosen of all Chaos, not a single power like many of the favoured traitor primarchs"

>http://www.blacklibrary.com/new-at-bl/interview-with-author-of-archaon-lord-of-chaos.html

Archaon > Primarchs

>>55141730

>Archaon wouldn't have succeeded without Be'lakor's help.


So? He's the one who went out and said "Fuck this shit, I'm going Chaos."

>Horus left nothing but ashes and shame for Abaddon.

Bullshit. He left him fucking Chaos Space Marines.

>Archaon was born with the brass spoon of ruinous destiny in his mouth.

What shitty novel said this? Because that novel is complete shit.

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>>55141818
>So? He's the one who went out and said "Fuck this shit, I'm going Chaos."

No, Be'lakor forced him drink the Chaos Koolaid.

>Bullshit. He left him fucking Chaos Space Marines.

No, he left him nothing. He had to earn those marines respect and loyalty.

What you said is as stupid as saying that Morkar left the Warriors of Chaos for Archaon.

>What shitty novel said this?

The novels and his original lore. Archaon was foretold to be the Lord of the End Times by Necrodomo writing (turned out it was Be'lakor who wrote the book).

>>55141625
Emperor was always a bit dull. He was a bland mary sue with a nonsensical background until the recent books where he became a asshole caveman Dr. Manhattan

>>55141714
ADB has actually said he respects Archaon more than Abby

>>55141753

>"Black Legion".

When you provide a source you usually give a quote or something to point out exactly what you are talking about.

>The Tau
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bY4EeS8G8

And the Eldar?

>>55141515
>Malekith > Vect

Bollocks. Malekith was a gormless nerd that did whatever his mom tells him to do. Vect is the Patrician, which is better.

>>55141903
>bland
>psychic gestalt of prehistoric human shamans created to lead humanity to domination

>mary sue
>literally fucks up a lot of shit, has clearly defined flaws, critics include his own creations

wut?

>>55141881
>Be'lakor

Didn't he get killed by falling rocks?

>>55141903
>ADB has actually said he respects Archaon more than Abby

Source?

>>55141905
>When you provide a source you usually give a quote or something to point out exactly what you are talking about.

I will make a Black Legion mega thread later. See you there.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bY4EeS8G8 [Embed]

Human translation of their language. For example the Tau do not call Tyranids "Tyranids. They call them Y'he. And they call Orks Be'gel. Each should be translated into Gothic as Ever Devouring and "barbarians incomparable with the Greater Good".

>>55141911
Malekith snark and sense of humour makes him superior. Vect is not funny.

>>55141881
>Be'lakor forced him drink the Chaos Koolaid
> Descending like a dark angel, Be'lakor knelt before Archaon, hatred and rage filling his soul. He would once again be on the sidelines in the next great Chaos War

So where is this bit about Be'lakor forcing shit?

> He had to earn those marines respect and loyalty.

The marines that were still there? The marines that fell to Chaos already? The marines that were only there in the first place because of what Horus did? Yeah, Abaddon had to work reaaaaaaaaal hard for that one.

Abaddon is the left overs of the Horus Heresy. Archaon is the guy who started his heresy.

>Archaon was foretold to be the Lord of the End Times by Necrodomo
> that North and South would meet in the Everchosen's blood

That could have been fuckin anybody who fucked a Norseman. You got a source saying that it specifically called for Diederick Kastner?

>>55141177
He looks angry at the Talon of Horus.

Do you think when Aby gets really mad about something, he starts shouting at his right hand and calling it Horus? Do you think he pantomimes Horus talking back to him when he's in private? Do you think Aby has entire arguments with his dads old gauntlet and that's how he works out all his plans? I do.

>>55139528
The leaders of factions form a representative for their faction. Fantasy Chaos Undivided have a lot of character on their own, being the unstoppable horde of barbarians coming to raid and destroy from distant lands, and that reflects in Archaon having a lot of character. Plus Fantasy Chaos is fairly united, so Archaon is the definite leader and consequently a bigger threat. Meanwhile the Black Legion have very little character to call their own, effectively every other legion and warband are more interesting, leaving the BL and Abbadon by extension feeling dull.

>>55142007
>I will make a Black Legion mega thread later. See you there.
>I can't find one quote of a Black Legion CSM saying "Why do they call our raids 'Black Crusades'?"

>Human translation of their language.

Ah, so they do call their shit Devilfish, Hammerhead, and Manta. They just call it that in their tongue. Glad we agree.

Also way to dodge the question about Eldar!

>>55142077
>So where is this bit about Be'lakor forcing shit?

The novels.

>The marines that were still there? The marines that fell to Chaos already? The marines that were only there in the first place because of what Horus did? Yeah, Abaddon had to work reaaaaaaaaal hard for that one.

Yes, he did because the marines didn't want to follow him and Abaddon the legacy of their fathers.

>Archaon is the guy who started his heresy.

No, he didn't. Archaon was proceeded by a long tradition of Everchosen that are supported by well established civilisations and culture who are in thrall of Chaos. Archaon came in and took over the Chaos establishment that was a thing for thousands of years.

>That could have been fuckin anybody who fucked a Norseman. You got a source saying that it specifically called for Diederick Kastner?

First chapter of Archaon Everchosen.

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>>55142087
>He looks angry at the Talon of Horus.
I mean, at least in older fluff that was part of how he enforced his legitimacy over the fractured sons of horus.

Basically just trioculus and darth vader's glove, but much less entertaining.

>>55142129
>Ah, so they do call their shit Devilfish, Hammerhead, and Manta. They just call it that in their tongue. Glad we agree.

No, that's just their speak translated into English. It would be confusing for the players if their used their alien name for them.

As for Black Crusades.

"Let this archive chronicle the beginning of what the Imperium now calls the First Black Crusade. I will tell you of the roots of the war and the first bloody battle when at last we broke free of our warp-wrought prison, when an ancient knight-king fell into darkness and when my brother sought to claim the sword fated to end an empire".

"The truth, as ever, is in the grey that exists between the black and the white. We did not call it a crusade. To us, it was the opening campaign of the Long War, and even that suggests a level of organisation that could scarcely exist. There was no overall conflict to judge. It broke down into a hundred wars between individual fleets and warbands rampaging their way through the segmentum. Warlords from the Nine Legions sought their own glory; champions shed blood and raided slaves and offered sacrifices in the myriad names of the Pantheon they either willingly served or courted for favour".

Now you ruined my upcoming thread.

>!

So you are trolling?

Glad to know. Ignored then.

>>55142139

>The novels.
>No quote, no line, no page number, you just gotta trust me on this one bruh. I'm a person telling the truth on the internet.

>Yes, he did because the marines didn't want to follow him and Abaddon the legacy of their fathers.
>the marines didn't want to follow...the legacy of their fathers

wut

>Archaon was proceeded by a long tradition of Everchosen

Yeah, all of whom aren't important enough to be mentioned in the Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook. You know, like how Horus is a big deal even in 40k's rulebook?

>First chapter of Archaon Everchosen.

Give a liiiiiiiiine, homie. You got the source material. Bust it out and throw down a quote.

>>55142139
Preceded*
There were 12 Everchosen before Archaon.

>>55142143
It's a symbol of his office but it's stupid for anyone o think that the alone Talon would sway the traitor legions when it reminded everyone of Horus whom they all equally hate and shun.

>>55142143
>I HAVE HIS GLOVE! I AM YOUR CHAMPION, CHAOS GODS, BECAUSE I HAVE HIS GLOVE!
>.......Fuck it.

This is canon.

>>55142197
> that's just their speak translated into English

Yeah, that's what I said. So we agree that they call them Devilfish. They just say Pescado Diablo.

That's a fun little detail about the Black Crusade stuff. Personally I wish that the CSM had their own crazy religion angle w/ their naming but w/e.

And another reply that dodges the Eldar question. What's that, 0/3?

>>55142226
It's a good Talon, anon. Be'Lakor wishes his sword was as good as that Talon.

>>55140851
>. Prior to the shitty End Times and AoS fluff, Archaon was an intimidating, seemingly unstoppable, faceless monster in the same vein as Darth Vader.

>>55141189
>He also doesn't have to get his character reworked or his achievements retconned every few years to try and fix his incompetence, making it look even worse.

Rhose of us who participated in the Storm of Chaos want to know why you people are LITERALLY lying.

Archaon of End Times got retconned HARD, and we who played it prior to 2006 knew Archaon as something to laugh, and laugh and laugh about.

>>55142217
>>55142217
Chapter 3. The last section of it when Kaster attempts suicide

>wut

They opposed Abaddon because they didn't want to follow a sonm of failure and abandon their fathers legacies for him. Abaddon had to force or charisma them to join.

>Give a liiiiiiiiine, homie. You got the source material. Bust it out and throw down a quote.

It's in the WHFB thread and I gave you exactly where it is. Download it and get to reading.

>>55142299

> Archaon as something to laugh, and laugh and laugh about.

How so?

>>55142313

>They opposed Abaddon because they didn't want to follow a sonm of failure and abandon their fathers legacies for him. Abaddon had to force or charisma them to join.

Oh, okay I get what you were trying to say. The sentence was very confusing.

Also you completely missed my point that there were Chaos Space Marines in the first place that he could get to follow him.

>>55142329
Chaos did embarrassingly badly in that campaign, which was hilarious considering how much they had hyped up archaon and the revamped hordes/warriors/daemons/beasts of chaos armies.

Chaos against the world never goes well, because the bulk of the players are not playing chaos armies.

>>55142313

>It's in the WHFB thread and I gave you exactly where it is. Download it and get to reading.
>Oh trust me, it's in there. Just get to diggin and you will find it! You know I'm tellin the truth, I'm on the internet!

>>55142268
Shoo, troll.

>>55142273
In the lore, Be'lakor's sword phases through solid material to slice at the meat hidden behind. The Talon doesn't. Therefore Be'lakor's Ebon Sword is cooler.

>>55142299
WHFB general is known to be a place of historical rewriting. He comes from there.

>>55142365

So GW fucked up their event. It's not like in the lore that Archaon is a punk like Abaddon.

>>55142370

>Shoo, troll.
>I can't back up the Eldar claims
>Imma call him a troll

Well I guess I'll count this as a victory. Way to be a quitter.

>>55142007
Didn't Vect once invited a slave to a meal and then he told him the entire story of te Fall of the Eldar? And afterwards he told his slave that the meal will give every not-eldar a deadly case of Diarrhea.

It may be toilet humor, but I found it funny.

>>55142367
>>Oh trust me, it's in there. Just get to diggin and you will find it! You know I'm tellin the truth, I'm on the internet!

The prologue chapters are like what 3 pages each? Stop being lazy.

>Also you completely missed my point that there were Chaos Space Marines in the first place that he could get to follow him.

They were CSM doing their own thing like how in fantasy Warriors of Chaos were doing their own thing. THey didn't follow Archaon and Abaddon just because they said "follow me".

>>55142365
>Chaos against the world never goes well, because the bulk of the players are not playing chaos armies.

Actually, Chaos did well in EoT. Would have done awesome if it wasn't for the bullshit Imperial biased rules of BFG.

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>>55140806
Doesn't the thing he's riding kind of look like Desghidorah?

>>55142426

>*stifles laughter*
>No seriously, it's super short.
>*chuckles*
>Just get to readin, you know you can trust me.

Apparently you can't read it yourself and just type up the quote. So either you are a troll or lazy.

>They were CSM doing their own thing like how in fantasy Warriors of Chaos were doing their own thing.

And there are CSM in the first place because of Horus.

>>55142395
>It's not like in the lore that Archaon is a punk like Abaddon.

Actually, it was the lore for years that Archaon was beaten off and never seen again until GW changed it. So unlike Abaddon, Archaon was lorewise a punk in official non-meme lore.

>>55142467
> it was the lore for years that Archaon was beaten off and never seen again until GW changed it.

Source?

>>55142460
>Apparently you can't read it yourself and just type up the quote. So either you are a troll or lazy.

I don't want to copypasta a whole chapter.

>And there are CSM in the first place because of Horus.

And there are Warriors of Chaos around because of Morkar. Your point?

>>55142395
>It's not like in the lore that Archaon is a punk
He was, my dude. Got headbutted into irrelevance after failing to do anything of note at middenheim.

Which is why they had to start up the retcons in an obvious and desperate attempt to make him cool.

>>55142487
7th ED Empire Army book and the WHRPG. Both mention Archaon's defeat. 7th ED was built around SoC results until GW decided to abandon the whole thing mid to late 7th ed.

>>55142507

>I don't want to copypasta a whole chapter.

...a whole chapter? Is the thing one giant sentence or are you trying to sell me that its one big implication? Because to prove your point all you need to do is find the line that says " Diederick Kastner, you are going to be the next Archaon." If all you got is a lot of circumstantial evidence then just admit it.

>And there are Warriors of Chaos around because of Morkar

Does the Warhammer Fantasy rulebook go into the Morkar Heresy and talk about the actions of Morkar shaped the most prevalent faction in the whole setting?

>>55142370
>Be'lakor's sword phases through solid material to slice at the meat hidden behind.

The Talon of Horus slices threw Primarchs.

>>55142514

Once again, you talk about how GW fucked up with their lore event, but not how Archaon is a punk.

Everyone has bad days, man. Archaon isn't some Mary Sue that is immune to getting sucker-punched by fucking Grimgor Ironhide.

>>55139528
Archaon was seen as a joke before but after the retcon he got shit done and won. He also looks cool. Abaddon looks retarded with that topknot.

>>55142777

Why was he a joke before Storm of Chaos?

>>55140292
Post more cheetah pics

>>55142370
>In the lore, Be'lakor's sword phases through solid material to slice at the meat hidden behind.

So it wouldn't be any help against mineral projectiles. Yet more evidence that Be'Lakor was killed by falling rocks.

>>55142631
>‘Sieur Kastner – Diederick Kastner of the Gruber Marches,’ Riesenweiler announced. ‘By the order of the Hedrich Lutzenschlager – Grand Theogonist and Sigmar’s Will in this world – you are charged with perfidy, wanton bloodshed, bringing terror to this land, the breach of your holy faith, consort with heretics and the worship of outlawed gods.

>‘Outrageous!’ Dagobert said getting to his feet, but the knight standing over him put him back down with another haft-slug to the gut.

>‘Your crimes have been weighed and measured,’ Riesenweiler said, ‘and your punishment devised. That punishment is death, sir. I have taken the liberty of informing your chapter master and claiming your ancestral lands.’

>‘Kind of you,’ Kastner called, ‘but you are mistaken – as the God-King is my witness.’

>‘And yet Sigmar stands as witness against you,’ the preceptor replied, ‘speaking through my master of your renouncement of his following and your service to the Ruinous Powers.’

>‘I don’t suppose it matters that I have done none of those things.’

>‘You will,’ Riesenweiler told him coldly. Kastner’s lip curled into a snarl.

---------------

>‘I will…’

>‘You will,’ Riesenweiler repeated. Kastner lowered Terminus and pointed the tip of the broad blade at the Knight of the Fiery Heart.

>‘Wanton bloodshed I might grant you, preceptor,’ Kastner growled.

>‘No,’ Dagobert bawled from the ground. ‘Diederick, don’t. This is madness – the servants of Sigmar set against one another.’

>‘Diederick Kastner is no servant of Sigmar,’ Riesenweiler seethed. ‘Brotherhood! Do your duty.’

>‘No,’ Dagobert roared. ‘Desist in this insanity. We demand audience with the Grand Theogonist. We demand to hear this from him. We demand to hear his reasons.’

>But the preceptor had done with the priest. He had heard the order from Lutzenschlager’s own lips.

>‘The man Diederick Kastner must die…’

>>55140785
>Original model
Newfags please go

>>55142197
>Glad to know. Ignored then.

Oh shit son, got real.

>>55142885
Wrong. He can control its where and how it phases. That's just one application for it.

>>55142891
The Church of Sigmar has known Diederick Kastner was the man destined to become Archaon. From the very text that they kept hidden until Be'lakor used an agent to get them out.

>Does the Warhammer Fantasy rulebook go into the Morkar Heresy and talk about the actions of Morkar shaped the most prevalent faction in the whole setting?

Of course. Morkar the First Everchosen the man that began the Everchosen tradition the Norse opposition with starting wars with the South.

>>55142929
>When Riesenweiler had proposed taking five knights, Lutzenschlager had said, ‘Take twenty and see that it is done.’ When Riesenweiler protested the number, the Grand Theogonist had told him, ‘This man is cursed by the Dark Gods with a future of doom and damnation. A future that must be denied, for our sake as well as his own. Sigmar has granted us the opportunity to do that. He has entrusted me with this task and now I entrust you. Take twenty of your knights and end this enemy of the Empire. No life your holy weapons have taken has ever been more deserving.’

>>55142929
>Wrong. He can control its where and how it phases. That's just one application for it.

That doesn't make any sense. If he could do that then he could have used it to block those falling rocks. Are you sure you're going by canon sources?

>>55142329
before retconning storm of chaos he was defeated by grim gor ironhide by being headbutted into the ground.

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>>55139528
Warcraft 3 Arthas is better than both.

>>55142972
Of course Chaos doesn't make sense, you dummy.

He doesn't need to block anything. He can like the rest of his body become phased out of reality.

>>55142891

Thank you.

Holy shit that is super fucking dumb. Like, the dumbest fucking thing. They had such a cool character and they decide to go "MUH DESTINY"

I'm just going to ignore that and go with the whole angle of him being a spiteful, militant atheist.

>>55143003
Nope, Arthas got tricked into being what he is.

Archaon (more or less) and Abaddon choose to be what they are.

A design that doesn't look like shit.

Give Abaddon a helmet GW, fucks sake.

>>55142929

>Of course. Morkar the First Everchosen the man that began the Everchosen tradition the Norse opposition with starting wars with the South.

Complete with a painting of him and his father, who is the leader of the human Empire, about to do battle?

>>55142998

And before that?

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>>55143056
For the hundredths time....

GIVING HIM A HELMET DEFEATS THE POINT OF HIM HAVING THE MARK OF THE CHAOS ASCENDANT WHICH IS LOCATED ON HIS FOREHEAD SO THAT ALL THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE THRALL OF CHAOS MIGHT KNOW HIM.

>>55143109

He can just put it on top of the helmet.

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>Be’lakor’s Ruinous Star of darkness united and powers undivided. The sign of the Bearer. The Herald. The Harbinger. The star was scorched in a cruel light that cut through the shadowy form of each otherworldly warrior of Chaos.

--------------
>Archaon knew he had seen the symbol before. Then it came to him. In the Forsaken Fortress. His father’s palace. He was staring at no ordinary Ruinous Star– the kind cut into the flesh of a thousand pantheon-pledged warriors of darkness or carved into the surface of countless shields. It was Be’lakor’s star. The Mark of the First Daemon of Chaos. The Mark of the Bearer. The Herald. The same burned into the darkness of his shadowy champions. The same dread sigil that burned across the daemon prince’s own heart and chest.

Wanting Abaddon to wear a helmet is like wanting Be'lakor to covered up his manly chest and the Mark of Chaos Undivided branded on it. Defeats the point of both characters by hiding what makes them special.

>>55143042
>tricked into being what he is
>literally chose to Stratome
>vs muh prophecy

>>55143196

Nothing is stopping either from just slapping that shit on a flag.

If anyone calls them on it, they can kill the prick, maybe after showing them the actual mark.

>>55143109
Cut the topknot. It looks like shit.

>>55143224
>>literally chose to Stratome

Which was all according to the plan of the Lich King.

>>55143196
>He doesn't just put the mark on his clothes
>Mark isn't so magic that it shines THROUGH the clothes no matter how thick the layer

>>55143237

You can't cut the topknot. It's the hallmark of his horrifying doofyness. If they lose it then they lose Abaddon.

>>55140336
I like how in this image from left to right archaon's horns keep getting bigger and bigger

>>55143248
>plan
>he could have listened to his buddies
>he could have not hire mercs to burn ships
>his own dwarf pal said sword was cured and he shouldn't pull
>still did so anyway
>implying that and hijacking lich king was according to plan

>>55143289

It shows how his power has grown.

>>55143289
Does it ever get hard to walk through doorways?

>>55143307
When it gets too hard he destroys reality.

>>55143325
We're discussing his horns, not my penis.

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If Nagash is Darkseid then is Arkhan Dessad?

>>55143109
And Archaon has the mark of chaos on him, he still wears a helmet.

>>55140851
I hope yo u don't actually believe that abaddon got his arms ripped off by a carnifex. It's just a meme derived from the fact that the old metal model had its arms fall off easily

>>55143428
Abaddon ripped his own arms off because they were arms that carried the failure Horus' geneseed.

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>>55139528
Why isn't his face pretty?

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>>55143374
Dude, doesn't have a Mark. He has a CROWN. He wears it on his helmet. The Crown of Dominion is the Mark of the Chaos Ascendant of fantasy.

>>55143604
Didn't he obtain the mark first? I thought he got the mark before the crown.

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>>55140851
>Archaon hasn't tried his shit thirteen fucking times.
Neither did Abaddon.
>inb4 Codex: Black Legion was a retcon to cover Abadab's ass
We've known since at least 3rd edition that not all of the BCs were targeted at Cadia. Cadia is frequently one of the places hit by BCs, but it wasn't actually the primary target for most of them.

>>55143634
In the novel he did get a huge ass mark on his face.

>>55143604
>Dude, doesn't have a Mark.
Yes he does. It's one of the treasures of chaos.

Maybe they fucked with that in all the retcons, but as far as 6th edition is concerned, archaon had a dumbass mark on his face too.

>>55143775
Nah it was still something he had to get to become the Everchosen.

As to why abadabba doesn't wear a helmet is anyone's fucking guess

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Reminder that everything that ever happened in the old world is not relevant anymore because it happened on another planet thousands of years ago and no one remembers it canonically. All those characters, all those place are completely irrelevant because of Age of Sigmar

>>55144109
>He doesn't know Fantasy takes place after the 40k universe got ass raped by Chaos

>>55144109

Archaon, Sigmar and the others remember it.

>>55142460

>Because of Horus
>Not because of Erebus and Kor Phaeron

>>55141515
>Sigmar > Emperor
No

>>55140336
Literally the most boring fantasy character

>>55143003
This. An actual badass with a plot.

>>55144819

They must be pretty butt hurt that they aren't the chosen of the gods in 40k

>>55140403
Who is carnac exactly? I am new

>>55139528
Abadabadoo has to share with the traitor primarchs who are all much cooler

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>>55143196
We all know you're gay for Be'lacuck, Carnac, just give it a rest already.

>>55145545
He's a guy who really likes Chaos. Perhaps even more than GW does, which is a hard thing to accomplish.

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>>55140806
>this is a gargoyle
>this is an abomination
>this is awesome
>this- you can't even tell what this is

>>55141727
Because it is.

>>55144109

I'm still struggling to understand the AoS fluff this way. Aren't there like a million realms so the whole point is to make your own up?

>>55145545
The resident autistic screecher. Loves sucking some Chaos dick, proclaiming it the best at literally everything forever to the point of trying to argue the plainly stated fact that Primaris Marines are bigger and stronger than Black Legion marinelets. Count on him to shit on a thread with random ADB quotes about how Abaddon is simultaneously the ultra-super chosen favorite of the Chaos Gods and a totally self-made man you guys. Also in gay love with Be'lakor for whatever reason. Loves Abaddon so much he'll actually shit on the real big boys of Chaos (Horus and the Daemon Primarchs) purely in an attempt to make armless the harmless look good.

Frequently suspected to be ADB in a very thin disguise.

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Ancient memes and the general level of fail the Imperium embodies.

>>55139528

Abbadon was put in a no-win situation of being the 'mastermind' for Chaos during decades of Chaos being both:

Pushed as being an unstoppable force of literally infinite demons that never really die that have bullshit powers that make even a single one of them a planet-level threat

combined with

Chaos never fucking DOES anything. Its always around, and its frequently the bad guy, but it never fucking seems to pull off anything important. For fucks sake, they can even take a single planet right outside their spawn room, OR be smart enough to go around it and attack literally anywhere else.

Its only very recently, with the lore actually advancing a smidge, that Chaos has gotten a win that makes their hype seem like something other than impotent fist-shaking. And Abbadon the Despoiler, as the human face of Chaos during its most 'threatening' times, would be the man most impotently shaking his fist.

Which is not helped by his, if we are being honest, fucking terrible sense of fashion. No one has ever looked at Abbadon and been intimidated. They don't fear for their souls. They merely regret, in their dying moments, that they had to be killed by a guy who still thinks top-knots are cool.

>>55145545
The most greatest Chaos wank ever. Nothing can beat Chaos says him. Not Elder Demonbane, all of DC & Marvel, etc.

>>55139528
Its a mix of;
>Chaos isn't allowed to win.
and;
>Old lore didn't really say anything about the first 11 black crusades, so people assumed they were aimed at Cadia and obviously failed
>Newer lore fleshed out the other 11 black crusades, and people got buttmad because their meme of Failbaddon was being challenged.

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>>55139528

>Archaon
>a cool villain

Really activates my almonds

>>55140336
isn't this also the series where it turns out Archaon's dad is Be'lakor and his love interest was really Be'lakor in disguise and he has a bunch of flying chosen of chaos that have sword wings and are super cool.

And also he gets some warp stone in one of his eyes and his sword burns with unholy fire cos he's so cool and evil? Like, a normal imperial knight's sword just starts burning cos I'm archaon and I'm badass

>>55139528
I say it's the helmet and the horse.

but also because for most of his existence archaon was merely an incoming threat, where abbadon was present through the whole timeline but never influenced it drastically.
now everything went just as planned instead and in both settings the characters present themselves similarly, albeit AoS doesn't have many other important figures like say primarchs or the infamous mortal champions so abbadon can't really have the same monopoly of power archaon looks like having in AoS.

helmet and horse matter anyway: give abbadon a helmet and a custom built land raider with a fancy balcony I say.

>>55144109
How are you supposed to safely store and transport that thing?

>>55153402
you aren't

>>55140162
"i haz a hat"

>>55153402
Where would you transport it to?

>>55148053
>Storm of Chaos was such a curbstomp against Chaos GW had to spend over a decade going "NAH NAH NAH CAN'T HEAR YOU" before rewriting the edgy reboot with the End Times

Somehow, Gav Thorpe is still proud of himself.

>>55141609
Teclis is Tzeentch?

>>55143023
The power of Calvinball is strong in you.

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>>55142143
>Abaddon Trioculus
I can't wait for Abaddon to get eye-lasered by a robot waifu.

>>55155925
Abbadon's best tale was his final battle against Sigismund.
2 peers, separated by the gulf of belief, each equals in war and ready to put it all on the line to win.

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Post better candidates for Warmaster of Chaos

They are the EXACT SAME CHARACTER

>black armor
>gold trim
>demon sword
>all four marks
>formerly served the Emperor
>mary sue speshul snowflake who isnt a pawn of the gods and does his own thing even if its ultimatley not what the gods want

>>55156143
Eliphas is a joke t to everyone even his own legion. The Inheritor title is an insult from Lorgar to him.

>>55143003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcr594QVzkc

Arthas did nothing wrong

>>55140336
Love looking at those first 3 fantasy books covers, then boom AOS... wtf

>>55143289
He's getting hornier and hornier.
Probably can't get laid.

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>>55156143