OK now that the shilling has died down can we please admit 8th

>>55131750
Ok, bye.

>>55131782
So not ready to admit it

File: 1501534857922.jpg.jpg (94KB, 640x533px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 640x533px

>>55131750
Pic related.

>>55131953
>So rather than actually refute the point or present case otherwise call OP autist for not having tolerant view whilst autisticly upset at OPs point of view.

Enjoy your crayons, seems dumbing down suited you.

>>55131750
You should quit. That'll show GW.

>>55131750
I'm with everyone else. Stop playing then. I'm enjoyining the game, it made vechiles less like vechiles but it made them easier to function. The game stopped being a jumbled mess of rules and just try to be exactly what it was supposed to be: the weekend football game with your friends where you get a few cold ones and have fun.

>>55131750
Shut up and replace your tired old marinelets with Primaris™ Marines already you stupid goy.

File: 1472318053695.jpg (1MB, 1630x642px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1630x642px

>>55131750
I agree. A lot of the changes sounded good when they were announced or leaked, but the game turned out to be very point and shoot. Just bum-rush the enemy, basically.

There's always 30k...

>>55131750
>Salamamders suck at flame/melta
Stopped reading there. Two free re-rolls for each Salamander unit in both shooting and fighting phases give their special and heavy weapons (lascannon, melta, flamer) and melee weapons (thunder hammers) MORE punch than any other chapter could even dream of.

Maybe actually read the rules before criticizing them and spewing bullshit.

>>55131750
No one is forcing you to play. Find some friends who are willing to play an older edition, if you dislike 8e so much.

>>55132546
>rush and shoot
If you try to do that to an experienced player, you're gonna get massacred in a choke. Positioning and picking targets is now more crucial than ever.

>>55131750
Yeah its literally AoS with guns.

I will point out that Oblits are actually good now with the release of the CSM dex so...there. Also I'm p sure that possessed, mutis and spawn were never good.

>>55132571
Spawn are fucking fantastic. They're insanely killy for their cost. An opponent has to deal with them, but dealing with them costs more than they do.

>>55131750
Nigher play something else then. I'm very happy with 8th ed and so is the overwhelming majority of the people.

>>55131750
>Rules dont reflect fluff.
Show me one wargame where this happens.

>>55132568
Picking targets I can totally see, but you'll have to explain positioning in 8th to me.

>>55132550
Sounds good unless you built a traditional Salamander list all the way back from early 4th and now have to completely re-do list to be competative. The rules for Salamanders suck because it completely changes who they are, how they play and are in direct contradiction to what they are in canon. They suck at what they are supposed to be good at in comparison to what they used to be able to do. If you cant see this you dont play Sallies, or never had. Changing the way a faction plays, especially considering how some players have spent years building their armies to completely change the way you build, play or structure your armies just for the sake of forcing you to buy minis (the whole reason for the rule and faction changes btw). The rules suck, I know cause I've read them and played them and see the justification of raping canon and history to do so (forcing me to buy new shit to actually be competative and play). The fact that so many of you have jumped on the shit wagon and are not willing to admit that this 8th ed is dumber (removing individualism of different factions, removes significant effort in planning, building and playing your army, and obsoletes positioning by removing templates, casualties in range, and terrain restrictions), punishes once again hobbyists, rewards codex creeps, powergamers and those with cash to spend on the new superpowerful shit they'll release with every update is astounding.

It is dumber, and rewards the lazy.

>>55132659
When facing a template weapons, or navigating terrain, or even facing massed firing you had to take into consideration how you placed your guys, as one pie plate could wipe out your entire squad if you were stupid enough to wander, closely packed in front of a demolisher cannon in the open, rather than space out behind cover to minimalize casualties. It also meant if you had templates weapons you tried to angle you shot (once again using firing arcs) as to hit the most in a shot. Removing these removes a layer of planning or nuance to the game that makes is dumber.

>>55132781
I was trying to say that 8th seemed to have lost a lot of reasons to be careful with positioning.

I don't think it's terribly "tactical" to space out your dudes more, but 8th lost any advantage to hitting armor from the sides/rear, and cover seems to lighter in its effects.

>>55132867
Sorry anon, I meant to reply to >>55132568
I actually agree with you. Hitting the soft spot through careful positioning and play was always good. 8th doesn't have this. As for the getting caught in a choke, no each game I've played has degenerated into run shoot, run shoot, melee. It's AoS 40k

>>55132263
Bullshit, 40k was never an "easy game to enjoy over cold beer and pretzels"

Been playing since 2nd edition, first of all you had to spend heaps of time and money (this hasn't changed) to field and customise your army. Secondly games of 40k at points higher than 1500 would take all fucking day, even a 750 would take through planning, playing and finishing the better part of 3-4 hours to complete. With it's different cards, codexes, movements every phase was 80% flipping back and forward through your tomes in order to get the rules right. This was fine as long as you didn't play a rules lawyer (which you always ended up playing) which would stretch the time out even further. It was clunky, it was slow, it was complicated, but it was fun.

3rd Edition streamlined, and whilst the mechanics were good removed a lot of the flavor that 2nd had. Even then though the game lengths stayed similar all the way through to 6th, which clunked things up. That said 5th was the best edition thus far, and could easily accommodate the changes from the 6th edition factions (traitor legions, angels of death etc.). It was simple enough to learn but allowed customization whilst also rewarding tactical play style.

But again, normal 1500s 2-4 hours play, anything larger longer with Apoc games taking up to 2 days. It was never an easy "couple of cold ones" game. Besides gaming you had modelling, painting and building lists, things you've had since Rogue trader.

Add into this it was never an easy hobby to get into and required money, time and effort to even be able to field an army this "casual, easy hobbyist" thing is complete bullshit. 40K, or Warhammer, were deep and required a steep learning curve that rewarded time and investment.

(cont)

>>55131750
I've never personally played 40k and I couldn't give half a shit whether 8th edition is better or worse than 7th.
But:
>>Rules dont reflect fluff
It's a bit late in the game to act like THAT'S a dealbreaker. The fact that it has this many editions at all should speak volumes about why that's a goofy thing to gripe about.

>>55131890
No one should admit to stupid bullshit.

>>55132724
>makes a bunch of unwarranted claims and hyperbolizes beyond belief
Begone shitposter.

>>55131750
Obliterators are shit, true. giving them Lascannon, Meltas and heavy bolter, firing one of them, would have been better.

Firing arks are a bit silly with boxing basilisks facing the opposite direction.

>>55133357
For casual games we had Necromunda, Mordheim, Gorkamorka, BFG, Bloodbowl and other games. These are your "couple of cold one games" designed to punch out a few quick skirmishes between friends so you could laugh and enjoy the antics that came from said games as they encouraged narrative as well as quick fun.

But again, all the time 40K and Warhammer were the big leagues (so to speak) which took time and effort all the way through to enjoy.

But I've gotta admit why this version really pisses me off.

You see I've always taken the time, playing a huge game with my guys was my reward. Knowing I had invested the time and effort to learn the rules, build my lists, buy, paint and field my army. I knew 40K was never casual and excepted is at such.

But guess what happened. Pretty soon parents started dropping their fucking spoiled kids into game stores. Kids who wanted "the best army", kids who couldn't narrative because they'd either never taken the time nor cared enough to learn. Soon they'd turn up with armies of grey plastic brand new because mum and dad bought it for them. Too lazy to put any effort in they'd handle your minis (often breaking them, or spilling shit on them) or interupt games to put themselves as the centre of attention. They'd throw tantrums when they'd lose games (as they never bothered to list build or play their armies). You'd play a large Apoc game, organized through friends, only to have the squeakers either complain to be included (in which case they fuck things up by not learning rules or not following group strategy) or they'd pick up minis and not place them back where they took them. Parents would complain about the metal music playing, or conversations about things like Slaanesh, or Dark Eldar, or 'gasp' movies or things not PG, forcing Redshirts to autistically enforce rules on what is or isn't "appropriate conversation". These kids were the dribbling shits, they sucked. (cont)

>>55131750
we should have known after they ruined Warhammer Fantasy that they'd do the same to 40k eventually. just didn't expect it so fast.

It mostly bothers me that basically everything rerolls 1s, and if customize your army, you can have a new cool rule that allows you to reroll more ones.

Fundamentally the "everything is spam" problem of 7th also hasn't been solved.

>>55133466
Those kids still fucking suck, only they've grown up. They're still lazy, not willing to invest time, effort, or energy to actually play the game but instead they insist on everything being dumbed down for them. They insist on "Beer and Pretzel" gaming, which translates to dumb, simple and easy because like the cunts they are they cant be bothered to put any effort into anything but still expect to be rewarded as if they have. Furthermore they insist on "moving the setting on" resulting in shit like the end times or the complete bullshit that is 8th Edition fluff, as they are too stupid to realize the point of "there is only war" is there is no point to stories, making the ones YOU as a player create mean something more. I mean if you can't get creative with 10,000 years and entire galaxy of war with which to base your guys off then it's you not the setting that's pants on head retarded.

Fuck you >>55132263 if you want easy go X-wing or something else. Don't insist on the big league being dumbed down for your hipster self. If you cant put in the time, you shouldn't belong in 40k or Fantasy.

The sad thing though is that GW now is catering to you, which means that we get simplified generic bullshit which doesn't reward depth and dedication but rewards retards like yourself who want simple. The reason you want simple is because you (and others) have the attention span of a braindead knat and will move onto the next shiny thing, leaving a fucking simplified mess to fix for those of us who actually stick around.

Rules are 100% fluffy, because tactics and positioning dont matter, perfect 40K is perfect.

>>55133538
P.S. even in your 20's you fuckers still have mum and dad buy everything for you which is why you dont value a thing.

>>55133466
>>55133538
>I knew 40K was never casual and excepted is at such.
For being such a clusterfuck of rules the games itself were painfully non-strategic though. Point and Click armies dominated starting 5th, movement was irrelevant for 60% of the armies, melee was retarded and counter intuitive with wanting to actually not be as deadly as possible, morale was completely ignored for most of the armies and vehicles were just ad for no reason except shit balancing, saves were worthless and always replaced by cover or invulns anyway.

This is the first edition since 5th where melee actually feels worthwhile again, surrounding units now actually does something, movement is now actually worth it for most units, saves actually do something instead everyone and their mother running ap3 anyway.
While I miss templates because I liked playing with them, there was no point to them. Everyone spread out, everyone just had their units mad maximum coherency-range which slowed the game but added no depth. Rolling for hits isn't optimal, but I think it's better than everyone running around in conga lines. Now this needs to be fixed for aura effects as well. I would welcome returning weak-spots for units like back armor, though, and it would be simple to implement.

>Furthermore they insist on "moving the setting on"
Agreed, moving away from your-dude-ism annoys me to no end. The part of my 4th ed Marine codex that I used so much it literally tore from the book were the chapter creation rules.

>The reason you want simple is because you (and others) have the attention span of a braindead knat and will move onto the next shiny thing, leaving a fucking simplified mess to fix for those of us who actually stick around.
The reason people like me prefer clear and solid rules is because we actually work or study or both and don't have time to sift through equipment cards and memorize 4 pages of USRs. Coincidentally this allows us to buy NEETs out of the hobby. Gentrification hooray!

>>55133589
If you don't want to play in public because your ass blasted about young people ruining your game, why don't you just play an older edition with all of your good friends who share the same opinions with you? Surely you wouldn't have ANY trouble with that, right?

>>55133614
Hooray, I manage you fuckers. As an age group (with only two fucking exceptions out of the many I have or do manage ) you work, but you work poorly, even then half arsing your efforts and not knowing your shit. Even then you insist on things being dumbed down for you because you're too lazy to learn to do things properly and are basically retarded as a result. You don't gentrify, you stupify. I hope the next generation works because I will happily fire the lot of you as it cuts down on the amount of work my competant workers have to do cleaning and fixing up after you, decreases the babysitting I have to do as a manager, and eliminates the drama in the workplace everytime one of you precious little teacups gets upset that something offends your world view. You're not eliminating NEETs, you are the NEETs, sheltered, lazy and will require babysitting by more competant generations all the way up til you turn grey and die.

File: Filthy Casual.jpg (20KB, 467x325px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 467x325px

>>55133538
>hangs out at GW stores
>complains about kids
>thinks 40k was ever tactically complex and not a chill "beer and pretzels" game

Dude you need to get a life... your seriously depressing.

40k has always been a simple game, move > shoot > charge. For fucks sakes 3rd ed. was the era of the Rhino rush, where SM fucking rushed up the field and got into combat asap. GW had to go back and change the CORE RULES just to stop it.

The game was simplified because it takes to fucking long, and you know that's the god damn truth. Not because "spoiled little rich kids demanded easy mode". For what boils down to a 2 ft line of toy soldiers running into each other, it shouldn't get slowed down by stupid shit like slowly placing your 20 man ork units so as to avoid blast markers, or arguing over weather your LOS is to the front or side of of a tank.

yeah, I'm not digging 8th edition so far.
ShadowWar got me excited, but then I saw the rules for 8th edition.

>>55133677
>As an age group (with only two fucking exceptions out of the many I have or do manage ) you work
I'm reasonably sure you're not actually referring to my age group as I'm in my early 30s now from a country where millennials are just now becoming a thing.
>I hope the next generation works
Unlikely, education's so fucked up they won't have the skills and society's got so little hope for success they just don't give a fuck anymore.

>>55133690
yeah,I loved the game before I discovered what else was out there.
I liked warmachine because you needed to really plan your turn or you'll die hard.
X-wing was fun because you needed to plan your turns and trust the force to win.
Each of those games have their flaw, and I would really like to reconnect with 40k like that old friend from High school.
But,like that friend, they never left town and haven't really changed over the years.

>>55133690
>your lack of life, of which I have nothing to base this claim on other than being ass blasted, depresses me
>Not the fact that what the guy is saying is right
>Not the fact that GW dumbed things down to sell to me the latest shiny shit to stay relevant as I'm the lowest common denominator.
>Not the fact that I never actually bothered to learn game beyond run-shoot, run-shoot.

GW built this edition to make things obsolete so they can sell you new things. Not to make the game faster. It's catered to you ADHD deadshits. This edition sucks, the only thing preventing anyone from seeing this is either they never played any edition other than 6th or 7th where things slowed down or they're to hyped on the gordy new shit.

>>55131750
Well, fluff dont matter anymore.

>Spawn
>not worth the time and investment

Fuck you, my unit of 5 have been wrecking shit.

>>55133729
Fuck if they're just becoming a thing I do not envy you. Expect to work more, get paid the same, and any achievement you actually earn be watered down as the little shits insist on getting the same recognition you got (despite not actually working to earn it). Expect meetings where kids with no idea or experience feel they have "something to say or add". Expect sexual harrassment or bullying claims when their lazy, under qualified ass misses out on a promotion that went to someone better. Expect such claims to cause havoc and division in an otherwise harmonious workplace, especially when they evoporate in the light of even the barest of scrutiny. Expect safety breaches, lack of respect for personal and company property and expect to be told you're the cause of all of it. Fuck Millenials.

Perfect baiting by OP, I'm impressed at his spoiled autism.

>>55133770
>GW built this edition to make things obsolete so they can sell you new things
-that is literally copy paste for every new edition and every new codex
>ADHD deadshits
"blame the rich little lazy kids" you've already admitted you hang out at GW stores to get your hobby kicks, and you've done that for a long long time. We know what kind of person hangs out at GW stores, not to mention ones with a stick up their ass about kids, so stop spouting your BS "my generations better work ethic BS". This isn't a Trump rally, and your not part of some golden generation where shit never hit the fan.
>This edition sucks
-every edition does, fuck, everything GW puts out sucks to some extent, to only realize that now shows how fucking juvenile your thinking is

Change up is fucking inevitable, it's the only way to revitalize the game, because holy shit, no one should be still playing the same army list they played in fucking 3/4/5th ed. I don't make any claim that 8th is going to be fucking perfection, but if you've only just got the stuck up your butt about lazy GW writing, holy shit you haven't been following GW for long have you?

>>55133905
Hang out anywhere a game goes dude. But kids aint GW exclusive, they're in every fucking LGS. I don't mind kids, but I loathe hobby store kids

File: 1459729108206.gif (3MB, 262x300px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 262x300px

More complex rules != more interesting options.

Chess is an incredibly deep game, but it's rules are simple and can be learned in an hour. The same can be said of Magic. The same can be said of this awesome hex game on the PC called Unity of Command. The same cannot be said of ASL. I play ASL. Not as much as I used to because it's a monster, but that game is 100x more fun using just the slimmed down Starter Kit rules than it is busting out the big binder. The amount of options that huge fucker adds never feels worth it compared to the amount of time investment it adds.

A good rule set needs to:
-Be easy to understand/written clearly
-Be simple enough that the player can commit how it works to memory
-Provide players with interesting choices
-Provide feedback to the player when they make those choices so the player can improve their decision making

That's it. Anything else is secondary and that's something GW hasn't understood for a while - they think adding more and more special rules to each army gives them flavor, that adding more granularity adds tactical depth, and that changing rules and adding more units for them to sell you wouldn't inevitably piss people off and drive them away. But that's where we are, people have been driven away.

GW saw a big boom in it's player-base in the late 90s and early 2000s, but those players are either gone, or suffering from serious hobby fatigue. A lot of them are professionals with families now. They don't have the patience for the bullshit of 5th/6th/and especially 7th Ed. GW finally realized that, and they have since overhauled both of their settings to address that issue. Make no mistake, it has been extremely successful for them, and because it's making money - they're going to double down on it. This is the new path for 40K. If you don't like it, things will only get worse for you. Either find a group of people that will play an old edition with you, or resign yourself to just painting figs and reading the books.

>>55133977
>The same can be said of Magic.
The underlying system is simple, but cards can be complex, and playing with the core set is boring as shit. But even that's got more tactical depth than 8th.

>>55133942
>but I loathe hobby store kids
I have no doubt their are shit kids out there at GW stores as well as LGS', but blaming them for all of GW's woes is like the oldest fucking thing in the book.

>>55131750
>can we please admit 8th edition is shit
I've been playing this game since 2nd edition and this is the best set of core rules we've ever had, son.

The game is still missing a lot of elements it needs to truly shine - the rest of the codexes will mostly fix that, some better campaign rules and a couple expansions will do the rest. But it's on a path to greatness.

>>55133538
>>55133466
>>55133357
So, did 8th edition piss on anyone else's army list, or just this guy's?

>>55133977
I think the core rules are in a good spot at the moment, now we need some tweaks to create depth again.

Add a weak spot rule that adds +1 to wound to attacks into a vehicles/walkers/big creatures back.
Increase the range of auras and make it so the entire squad needs to be within range to kill conga lines.
Turn roughly half of the weapons that roll dice for their shots count back into fixed values, this variation isn't necessary.
Nerf the first turn, possibly by having all shooting attacks occur at -1 BS or even -2 BS and reducing all charge distances by 2, remove seize the initiative and bring back the system where the player that deployed first goes first with units of PL 15 or above counting as 3 deployments and units of PL 30 or above counting as 6 deployments or by counting LoWs as 3 deployments.

>>55134197
My Tyranids got about infinity times better so I have little to complain about, really. Spoiled marinefags can suck a fat one.

>>55134234
>Spoiled marinefags
Nigga I field 60 Tacticals and this is literally my favorite edition. Foot slogging isnt shit anymore, melee isnt shit anymore, armor isnt shit anymore.

Drop Pods being overpriced is bitter, but the trade was definitely in my favor.

Primaris Drop Pod when? Drop Pods are probably one of the if not the most iconic transport for marines. Having GoodScale Marines and not being ale to pod them hurts.

>>55131750
>Salamanders now suck at flamers/melta their core fucking theme
that's a fringe consideration for a specific chapter. overall nobody cares.
>Lelith Hesperax, who's fluff states she's never used combat drugs, now uses combat drugs.
whoop-dee-doo, big frigging thing
>>Obliterators now plain suck with their random guns, they are no longer a useful utility unit. Possessed, Spawn and Mutilators are obselete and not worth the time and investment.
confirmed for not understanding the game
>>The removal of templates, firing arcs, and controlling player chooses which of his models he'll remove makes the idea of having to think how you position a joke.
and again, you have no clue. positioning matters a lot, esepecially for protecting characters, close combat, thwarting off deepstrikers

you could have lamented the piss-poor cover rules, the ridiculous flamer versus flyers BS, the unnecessary lack of vehicle facings but instead you had to go full-on retard.

overall, 8th is still the best 40K we ever had. just make sure you spam LOS blocking terrain.

>>55132867
use more LOS blockers

>>55133357
>Bullshit, 40k was never an "easy game to enjoy over cold beer and pretzels"
someone doesnt remember 3rd ed, the original dumb-down/streamlining sin

>>55133614
>memorize 4 pages of USRs.
you still have them now but spread over individual entries, such as not!FnP, Hard-to-Hit, etc. you literally gained nothing.

they were smart enough to centralize point costs but they can't update USRs easily anymore because they decentralized them. fucking dumb.

>>55134474
this way it cuts down on a lot of cross referencing and you can immediately judge how good a unit is from their profile.

>>55133818
Outside of sexual harassment claims, everything you listed has been standard workplace politics for a long time.

>>55134492
But you could do that before, or they could just put the rule on the card next to the USR name, thus preventing you from having to memorize like ten abilities or having to turn pages in a book but still allowing you to have USRs that change or interact with each other, like a megapoison weapon that disables FnP or something, or a unit that prevents Deep Strike within a larger radius.
Giving them all different names randomly was an idiotic move because it made a bunch of possible interesting interactions way harder to word for no reason.

>>55134602
>USRs that change
they really shouldn't beyond clarifications.

>USRs that change or interact with each other
that will just lead to +1-itis where you get an arms race of which special rule trumps which other special, similar to what happened in 7th and 6th. Such interactions MUST be in the core rules to keep the design elegant.

>a unit that prevents Deep Strike within a larger radius
that's possible now

Damn this thread was halarious. OP, how long did you have all of these thoughts stewing in your little head that you had to shit them out on /tg/? Entertained me all the way to work, thanks senpai

>>55133677
>he's a middle manager
mystery solved boys

>>55131750
>everyone who likes something I don't is a shill
8th is a great edition, but if you don't like it, then just don't play it.

>>55131750
>Lelith Hesperax, who's fluff states she's never used combat drugs, now uses combat drugs.

If whole of reality split apart, I'd start doing drugs.

Weird you didn't say anything about SW getting to deep strike their terminators, even though they don't like such arcane techno-sorcery.

>The removal of templates, firing arcs, and controlling player chooses which of his models he'll remove makes the idea of having to think how you position a joke.

You know what's a joke? Autistically spreading your minis 2" apart for max coherency. Plenty of games do just fine without templates. Player getting to choose which models to remove is not a new phenomena either. And if you're bitching about firing arcs now, I really do hope you bitched about them in the past, like how a stormsurge with its forward facing guns can fire behind it or a bike with its rear wheel poking behind a corner can fire its bolters through it.

Either remove arcs, facings, etc. or make everyone abide by them.

I don't like how they handled templates either, and flamers auto-hiting aircraft is just silly. The removal of vehicle facings took tactical depth from the game but I believe this is mitigated by the new deployment mechanics.

Other than that the game is objectively better, stratagems and the new drtachment systems go a long way towards balancing lists in a fun way. Each faction is actually good at what it is suppossed to now too, and each of them is getting their own version of Chapter/Legion tactics such as Ork klans and AdMech forgeworlds.

Oblits are very good now, 4 shots each that are autocannon at worst and lascannons at best, and can run and shoot them for -1 to hit! Possessed aren't bad either, with the 5++ and 2 wounds each they are essentially tougher and slightly faster berzerkers which make a good replacement for them in fluffy non-khorne lists. Finally Spawn are even tougher and pack a hell of a punch now, can't simply be ignored by the enemy anymore.

So it fixed a lot of things but fucked up some others. I can take the MASSIVELY improved game balance in exchange for some tactical depth, because the latter is pointless if one or two factions can steamroll everything.

>>55134764
To be honest, I'm bored, and high.
I genuinely hate 8th edition, also hate 7th, but for whatever reason obviously thought it'd be fun to vent my shroom induced frustrations online (don't judge me fuckers 1st week of 1 months holidays). Don't remember much of my arguing but it seems I let some work place frustrations blur the line with my GW hate. This is disappointing I was hoping to double rainbow. Oh well, serves me right I guess.

File: UFAM.png (2MB, 1283x691px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1283x691px

>>55133357
>>55133466
>>55133538
>>55133589
>>55133677
>>55133818

File: beer and pretzels.jpg (134KB, 564x564px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 564x564px

>>55133357
>He thinks that 2-4 hours to play is a long game.

>>55132005
>implying fun is subjective
The game runs smoother, I spend less time looking up rules, my army isn't shit for the first time in 7 years, movement values offer minimum complication with a large addition of strategy, the change of vehicles to toughness/wounds/armor saves does a lot to simplify the game in a good way, assault feels effective and actually offers tactical decisions other than "well, I guess I'm stuck until I run or die," Narrative missions make asymmetrical fights feel fun and exciting, new deep strike rules make reserves feel completely tactical and not random as hell, the Psychic phase FINALLY got fixed. Tough armies feel tough, fast armies feel fast. For the first time in ages, most armies are either on or nearly on the same footing.

That said, I have a few problems. Mostly due to how ineffective most AOE weapons are now, and how cover is completely fucked. Within my own army (Tyranids), some weapon stats/prices make no goddamn sense.

Overall? I enjoy it more than I've enjoyed any edition since 4th, and every player in my local meta has enjoyed it.

>>55137997
Sorry, meant objective.

>>55133729
>I'm in my early 30s now from a country where millennials are just now becoming a thing.

No, anon, You ARE a millennial. Dumbshit 12 year olds are something else.

>>55135904
Then go play 2nd edition if you enjoy "complexity" for the sake of it. 8th edition is flawed but is by far the best ruleset the game has had in YEARS, I could argue that perhaps 5th would've been better had all books been made at the same time but they werent and that edition also had many flaws, still 8th is fun to play, there's an enjoyable ammount of moving parts within an army that can be toyed around with and this idea that simplicity is "dumb" is frankly a flawed argument, the best games in humanity's history are the simplest, chess is anything but a complex game and millions enjoy it. Simplicity, in a game, is something to strive for not run away from.

The fact that most codexes seem to have been made around the same time only makes this edition better than any other in 40k's history, the fact that people are coming back to the game should be proof enough that they have succeeded in creating a game that attracts old and young blood and is enjoyable, go play other games if you dont like it.

>>55138074
Can we just admit that word no longer means anything, if it ever did? When some people are claiming the first millenials are now pushing 40 and others are saying it only refers to people born after Y2K, does it have any real definition? When it's nothing but a conveniently nebulous scapegoat for everything you don't like, from restaurant trends to political ideologies, does it serve any real purpose?

>>55134956

I'm a middle manager and I want to punch this presumptive cunt in the mouth. Guarantee he's still middle 20s, but he's convinced that his narcissism that dictates that all the OTHER middle 20s people are somehow inferior to him is completely and totally different of the narcissism that they display.

>>55131750
No. I love 8th edition. Get fucked, OP.

>>55138422

Post-2000 is Gen Y, silly.

>>55131750
It's mostly fine, except for cover and blast weapons.

I think 8th is better than 7th but still not engaging enough to re-invest in the game. Also the fluff is a dumpster fire and has been for some time so I have lost the capacity to engage with the settting. At least you folks enjoy this, I refuse to shit on people for having fun.

>>55133690
>arguing over weather your LOS is to the front or side of of a tank.
2bh they should have just borrowed FoWs system (any model behind a straight line draw across the front of the vehicle hits sides, sides and rear using a single armour value), and used a modified toughness for sides and front would have simplified it enough

>>55138856
And people born in 1980 are on the tail end of Gen X. You'll notice that while those terms aren't totally defined at the edges, they have ranges of years people generally agree on. Meanwhile, there's tons of "early millennials" who have kids now, who by plenty of peoples reckoning are also considered millennials. Isn't the word supposed to refer to one specific generation of people?
Y'know, if I didn't know any better I'd think this was a meaningless buzzword or soemthing...

>all this facing fags

If you want facing, demand vehicle bases first.

Facing is a bullshit rule without actual measurable points. WMH does it, X wing does it, no sensible miniature game demands facing without base for the facing to be defined on.

I'm enjoying 8th overall. It's nice to get rid of the rules bloat.

The only thing that pisses me off is GW pumping out SM when most of the CSM is extremely dated.

Furthermore they really could sell packs of special weapons etc so I didn't have to trawl or kit-bash to access basic options.

You can talk about the degradation of rules all you want, OP. It's the slow decay of the quality in the models that hurts me.

>>55132657
In Star Wars: Imperial Assault, Greedo has an incredibly high initiative, but a special rule called "Slow on the Trigger" that lets enemies take a free shot on him if he tries to shoot them. Thus giving crunch behind the debate over whether Greedo or Han shot first. ;)

>>55132005
>You have to debate everyone all the time no matter how retarded they are acting

This is what happens when an entire generation grows up acting like a choice of two essentially identical game consoles is a matter of identity and character. You get people who fundamentally don't understand how to think critically, and view their opinion as a source of validation.

File: 07.jpg (77KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 800x600px

>>55131750
Are you a Sallies player? They have a bunch more characters in the Forgeworld Index, including a Dreadnought character.

>>55132724
>Have to redo do list from 4TH EDITION
For fucks sake...

>>55139282
They do. So do Forgeworld.

Every 8e tournament list has fundamentally managed to be even crazier than the spammiest of spam lists from 7th. If 40k 8e lore were to reflect the actual crunch:

-Every Tau Crisis Suit is piloted by a commander. You never see Fire Warriors or basis Crisis Suits. (YMMV if 7 Crisis Commanders that cannot be targeted is worse than 3 Riptides)
-You never see Tactical Marines, except a mandatory few to avoid being "tabled" while Stormravens handle everything else (neutered due to rule changes).
-Draigo, Bobby G, and Celestine hang out as Superfriends, while 6 Culexus Assassins serve as bullet-distractions going "neenerneener, you have to shoot me first."
-Basilisks are better at anti-aircraft than crowd control.

Oh yeah, and they fucking made Necrons Tomb Kings in Space even more, naming the Necron Lord's power "My Will Be Done." You know, the same power a Tomb King or Tomb Prince had before they were squatted.

File: 1340249833928.gif (54KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 400x400px

>>55139694
>Every 8e tournament list has fundamentally managed to be even crazier than the spammiest of spam lists from 7th
You mean the lists that got nerfed immediately and the tournament where top 8 were all different armies?

Yeah, list diversity in 40k is pretty fucking crazy.

>>55139151
>demand vehicle bases first
I did for years and still do.

>>55139491
Fucking Fantasy Flight the madmen

>>55138856
Gen X ends in early to mid 80's (depending on region and who you ask), after which you get Gen Y till early 2000's. Kids born after that are Gen Z.

>>55139788
>>demand vehicle bases first
>I did for years and still do.
Defiler really needs it. I've never seen a Defiler that hasn't snapped off its legs at one point.

Seriously though, vehicles not having bases is just fucking stupid.

>>55139772
Conscript nerf when?

LVO has always had wildly different lists from year to year. Most armies do simply because 40k generally hasn't had a stable meta. In fact, the only time I can think of the exact same army winning the same tournament two years in a row was Tony Kopach's Space Wolves in 2010 and 2011. ("3 points over.")

>>55139834
> I've never seen a Defiler that hasn't snapped off its legs at one point
I have. It was purely showcase because defilers kinda suck

>>55139151
>sensible miniature game

I think you mean "autistic sperglord on the internet."

File: meme.png (13KB, 418x359px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 418x359px

>>55131750

File: Brandon-Grant-1st-Overall-BAO-2017 (2).pdf (56KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 1x1px

>>55139694
The Culexus list is a gimmick and it's easy to change the Culexus rules to take care of the unintended interaction. And GW fixed flyers lists pretty quickly while still keeping flyers useful to everyone else.

The top BAO lists were full of the strong units(Conscripts), but seemed pretty reasonable compositionally to me. For example:

>>55131750
>>Rules dont reflect fluff.
They never have and no-one cares what a fluff bunny thinks about rules anyway. That
this was your top complaint tells us that you're a fucking idiot.
>Reading the space marine dex it means that Salamanders now suck at flamers/melta their core fucking theme.
They don't suck, they just don't get a special snowflake bonus. Boohoo.
>Lelith Hesperax, who's fluff states she's never used combat drugs, now uses combat drugs.
No-one cares.
>>Obliterators now plain suck with their random guns, they are no longer a useful utility unit. Possessed, Spawn and Mutilators are obselete and not worth the time and investment.
NO-ONE cares what whiny CSM players think about anything at all.
>>The removal of templates, firing arcs, and controlling player chooses which of his models he'll remove makes the idea of having to think how you position a joke.
This is not accidental. It speeds the game up whilst removing nothing that actually matters.

>if anything encourages the no thought codex creep, newest shiniest thing bullshit we've all come to loathe in the hobby.
Until we've got more than a handful of codexes out you have zero basis for this. The codexes released so far don't indicate this at all.

>>55132724
>all the way back from early 4th and now have to completely re-do list to be competative.
You don't know ANYTHING about being competitive if you think that changing a list from 13 years ago is somehow onerous.

>>55139868
No, I wrote sensible miniature game, I meant sensible miniature game.

>>55133357
>even a 750 would take through planning, playing and finishing the better part of 3-4 hours to complete.
In that case you are doing it wrong. Try turning up being prepared to play for a start. If you can't get a 2K game finished in 3 hours you have a problem.

>>55139842
>Conscript nerf when?
When the codex comes

>>55139834
Ok, I put my square rhino on an oval base. How does that make things easier?

>refute the point

Dude, OP having an opinion about something that he backs up with more of his own opinions is not a point, and it doesn't require refutation. If changes that "dumb down" the game mean that fewer people convinced of their own mental superiority play it, they can only be changes for the better

>>55133538
>Don't insist on the big league being dumbed
>40K
>Big League
FFS

>>55139889
All these rapid patches and hotfixes are really putting a lot of doubt over the whole premise that this is the MOST PLAYTESTED EDITION though. Some of the flaws are fairly embarrassing, from repatching Space Wolves (due to Keyword fail for including a Terminator Wolf Guard in Grey Hunters), to items as basic as squad coherency.

You know the saying "if it ain't broke?"

File: suggestion.jpg (108KB, 790x1000px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 790x1000px

>>55139952
Yes, you wrote that, but what you meant is "I want bases, because I'm too stupid to manage things without one and everyone should bow down to me, because I'm right and you're not."

Plenty of games have armour facings and do just fine without bases, because not all people are as incapable as you.

>>55133977
>The same cannot be said of ASL. I play ASL.
My. Fucking. Brother. Never thought I'd see anyone else who plays it outside of the historical thread.

>>55139903
>>Lelith Hesperax, who's fluff states she's never used combat drugs, now uses combat drugs.
>No-one cares.
I care...

>>55140027
The funny thing was she used Combat Drugs in 3rd ed but the codex forgot to include them in her entry. The FAQ said yes she has them, because otherwise she would be the only Wych in the universe not to use them!

Man, I miss when Wyches could take Blasters.

>>55140027
>I care...
See:
>>55139903
>no-one cares what a fluff bunny thinks about rules

>>55139972
Now you can mark the base for where the sides change. Lines can be measured to see where the models exactly lie for measuring arcs. On an oval base the each facing will need to be set at 45 degree angle so the marking becomes easier. I mean, they could sell premarked bases if they want their own spin on the dimensions. Considering how abstracted 40k is, side facing could also probably just go away and there could be just front and back arc with base split in the middle.

Also, this finally can kill TLOS and every model can be standardized to go volumetric LOS.

>>55139997
Not really. In the past GW just would just ignore the issue and not change anything until months later, if then. I'd love it if they hadn't needed any, but I'm happy to see issues addressed quickly.

>>55140074
>every model can be standardized to go volumetric LOS.
Only if you play on a horrible 2D board.

>>55134197
Most of the lists 8th Ed. broke were the ones with "Allies of Convenience." Tau + Eldar and that sort of thing.

>>55140013
>Plenty of games have armour facings and do just fine without bases, because not all people are as incapable as you.
And plenty of games are garbage.

>>55140101
That means nothing. Infinity uses volumetric and 3D terrain is of utmost importance in that game.

You are just bitching because of Warmahordes and that's mostly due to WMH models being horrendously over-sized for their bases making precision placement in a game about precision placement impossible to achieve on 3D terrain.

>>55131750
You've finally come to the realization that all wargamers come to eventually: that 40K is shit. Every edition has been shit, the core rules are shit, the balance is always shit, and the functionality of units is dictated by shitty business decisions.

Just leave and don't look back. None of the people you're talking to will admit that a new edition is shit less than a year in, the shiny hype is still bright in their eyes. It takes at least a year and a half for everyone to realize the game is just as broken and unbalanced as ever, only in a different way, and 2-3 years for everyone to get sick enough of to admit they were wrong.

Go. Your gaming future lies elsewhere.

>>55140101
What are you, retarded?

Those two things are entirely unrelated. They don't affect one another in the least.

For me, my biggest issue with 8th is the game is still scale-creeped up, and IGOUGO is still "I alphastrike, you kill time on Tinder except when rolling saves." The few choices you did have in 7th (Go to Ground, Jink and Overwatch) are either gone, or are "free actions." Don't even bother trying to charge Conscripts for example.

The only choice you do get this edition is "which models die." And that's not exactly a good start.

>>55140349
Overwatch is still around. And we're seeing more and more defensive opponents turn Stratagems like the Night Lords "In Midnight Clad". Plus melee is entirely alternating activation now.

File: maxresdefault (15).jpg (156KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 1920x1080px

At this point unless you know its good, it's shit.

>>55131750
I'm starting to think that all who post good stuff about 8th edition are GW employees being payed to lie.

>>55140445
What I mean by that is that since it's a "free action" now, there's no longer a decision in place for whether you want to use it.

And army-specific stratagems are still a stretch. Yes, a CP for a save reroll is cute and all, but beyond that...

It is funny that Night Lords can make plasma weapons blow up more. 2spooky.

>>55140074
I have never, in all my time playing various wargames, has any trouble with facings without bases.

>>55133770
>GW built this edition to make things obsolete so they can sell you new things.
They made a ton of old shit good again, and most of the Primaris stuff is worst in terms of cost-effectives points than the old Marine line.

>>55141036
Play more games

>>55140867
No, I don't think it was obvious from reading the rules that the game was going to end up being oversimplified.

>>55140867
It's more of a change of perception from good marketing than anything. I don't think that it is that much worse than previous editions, but it is hardly as great as some make it out to be.

>>55138503
You want to but you wouldn't, plenty of people say shit like this but never act on it. You'd stare at the floor, then write a strongly worded letter about how hurt your feeling are because truth is you, as most people IRL are cowards. If in a workplace I might cop a "warning" but I'd call for a workplace mediation where I'd sit there and call you a bitch to your face and let the idiot human resources mediator tell me how I shouldn't say such things, whilst I continue to say such things. Outside of that I'd still say so to your face knowing you're going to do nothing, you'd sit there and take it because the second you throw a punch, you lose. Me, whether you beat the shit out of me or not, I win as either I get to play victim and sue you if I lose or I get to beat you badly, claim self defense and then sue you. Let's face it, most of you are cowards who wont do a thing beyond blow hot air.

>>55131750
Nah, it's pretty great.

>>55141516

Its 'more playable'. Thats a straight upgrade.

File: 1494374276905.png (223KB, 404x507px) Image search: [Google]

223KB, 404x507px

>>55131750
It's not shit, but it's not that good either. They drastically decreased the amount of core rules, but a lot of stuff that was core just got shunted to individual datasheets. The core rules that do exist are still full of stupid/counter-intuitive shit, and their formatting is still ass-tier. Whoever decided to put rules text on randomly allocated side-bars should be fired out of a cannon into the Sun.

Balance is still a total shitshow, and it's not going to be getting better as codexes add more and more stuff over time.

>>55139694
>Basilisks are better at anti-aircraft than crowd control.
flak88 in reverse?
I can dig it

>>55138422
>I was wrong but can't admit it so I'm going to take you down with me

Millenials has a meaning. You're just wrong.

Did OP quit yet? I don't really want to read this.

>>55131750
nah 8th edition still best edition.

>>55144901
why didn't you hide the thread then?

>>55139997
if what ain't broke? 7th?

7th was the biggest shit show to date.

>>55139997
No one claimed that it wasn't broken.

You can play test all your want, it doesn't guarantee perfection on release.

40k still is not a good game, but it's better than what it has been for last decade or so.

>>55138939
>I don't enjoy it, but it's ok for people to have fun

Decent people aren't allowed here, please leave.

>>55142561
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

File: Laugh.jpg (65KB, 680x706px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 680x706px

>>55142561
Gasbag hiding behind legal, thinking their not a coward, lmfao.

Thinks he's not going to get outed for acting like a out of control bitch in front of HR, fucking good one.

Arguing about toy soldiers, thinks he's more manly then everyone else, this just gets better and better.

Keep going man.

>>55145167
It just isn't same without the picture

>>55132657
The good editions of 40k were better at this.

>>55145181
>Gasbag hiding behind legal, thinking their not a coward, lmfao.
The goal is not to prove what a manly man you are. The goal is to win.

>>55145600
Then why are you complaining about 8th?

>>55134197
My Salamanders are still good. Land Raider Redeemer is stupid fun now it has an 8' death bubble from any point on the hull.

>>55145820

>the goal is to win

In this fake hypothetical confrontation you've envisioned in your head out of nothing. Your the type that gets shit on by everyone at work, you think it's because they are lazy or whatever, truth is it's because they all think you are a cunt and have no respect for you whatsoever. If this thread is anything to go by, they are right.

Just like the fake scenario you've played out in your head for if you were to have one of these altercations at work, it's never going to happen cause your to busy being a pussy that you think you "win" by being a little bitch.

You already think your superior to me for not understanding how you "win" but I understand alright, your just a total fagget that stirs up every conceivable stereotype of fedora wearing neck beard. I bet you have a collection of katanas or knives.

File: Sister-of-Battle-5.jpg (114KB, 954x768px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 954x768px

>>55145820
How alpha of you.

Bet in real life you'd loose your spagehtii though

>>55131750
>8E isn't an improvement over 7E
>rules don't reflect fluff even though they never did in any edition

I want OP's city to suffer from catastrophic flooding.

>>55132867
This. With Orks terrain might as well not exist.

>>55134197
My Orks are even more unplayable, but that's because I had a bunch of 'Ard boyz and looted rhinos. GW has never liked themed armies if the theme isn't "play this canon chapter".

>>55145181
Dude, I'm one of two people in the entire country I live in that can hold my position in management due to my tickets, qualifications and industry knowledge (namely the supply, logistics, and set-up of drill rigs for everything from oil & gas to artesian drilling) I'm a qualified driller (both coal seam and offshore platform), on top of being responsible for the running of the office side of logistics, training and supply for a drilling company that currently is operating in 8 different countries. Couple this with the fact that we're in a resources downturn and the companies would have fired me if they could afford too, yet haven't, it is then safe to say I know I can call you a bitch to your face. And you, or anyone else, as an office worker, leading hand, HR lady or any other employee are the ones who are going to wear the flack because my skills and knowledge make me more valuable to the company than you or anyone underneath me or at a similar managerial level. HR ladies, office drones, and labourers are common and replacable, hence I can and do get away with it. Bar sexual harrassment, or unprovoked physical violence, they wont fire me, and even if they do there are a good 5-6 companies that would snap me up in the same position within 48 hours. I'm not brilliant I'm just lucky enough to have gained a set of qualifications and skills that mean I am valuable to them and they will sink 100 HR ladies before they even think of giving me a written warning.

So yeah, I dont care about your call of cowardice for hiding behind rules because I'm lucky enough to have the rules favor me over others at work, and smart enough to know if you hit me I have the advantage.

>>55146885
people die from getting punched dude good luck

>>55137997
>Overall? I enjoy it more than I've enjoyed any edition since 4th
So you enjoy it less than GW's last good edition?

>>55147058
I've been punched plenty of times before (boxing or pub fights). I might get a black eye, but thats about the worst that ever happens. As for dying, well then I wouldn't be the one suffering, I'd be dead. The guy who did it would be the one wearing the consequences, not me. If you're stupid enough to fuck your own life up because you felt I hurt your fee-fees then that's your problem not mine. If I gave a shit about the consequences of my actions on others or myself I'd be flipping burgers part time and miserable. I didn't so I'm not.

I'm not a complete asshole at work though. I expect people to know their job, do their job, respect the industry and the hierachy, it's how I ended up where I am now. I don't care male or female, gay or straight, race or religion. You work well I'll push you to the moon, you dont work well I'll be miserable cunt to you until I either get an excuse to fire you or until you leave. I still maintain that most millenials are lazy, sulky asswipes who couldn't fucking work in an iron fucking lung. The only thing a person should earn by acting like a fucking precious little snowflake is contempt and a pink slip.

>>55146885
>muh I'm irreplaceable
Check out detroit if you wanna see a graveyard of irreplaceable men
>But no one else can do my job, really!
Just hire literally any chemical engineer


I bet you post on /pol/ or are actually 14

>>55147265
He's probably talking about rabbit punches, which combat sports don't allow and street brawlers don't know about.

>>55147348
Nope, I'm 36 with 20 years experience in the drilling industry. If you think people are suddenly going to stop need oil, gas, core samples for research, or ground water in any forseeable future you really are a retard.

Furthermore if you think a chemical engineer (a fucking chemistry geek straight out of the laboratory) understands the actual function, role, requirements, work load, workforce numbers pared with required qualifications for 8 countries not counting the differences between state laws & legislation, co-ordinate training for said workforce with a working rotating roster of both on-rig and office staff, as well as oversee the maintence, supply and replacement parts for the different drilling rigs and platforms, then you, like any chemical engineer who thinks they can without similar industry knowledge and experience, are really fucking retarded.

P.S. the only engineer that would have an idea of what to do would be a mining engineer, and even then their job is to work the geology in order to know where to drill and what type of drilling is required. My job is to implement the logistics of said plan, from office to rig, and there are more people qualified as mining engineers than there are people to do my job. Any other Engineer wouldn't have a fucking clue about what to do when it comes to drilling.

>>55147497
I know about rabbit punches, king hits and sucker punches. Again if you think that'd actually work and you could do it "finger of death" style you haven't been in any fights.

>>55146885

None of this is true though because you're just an angry 17 year old. You have to be because only an angry teenager would lack the self-awareness to try to boast about IRL achievements on the toys section if any anonymous image board

>>55147575
>Again
>you
>clearly a different person

>I'm not brilliant

It shows.

>>55131750
Nope.

>>55147575

You do know that punches do kill people, right? Generally because you knock someone on their ass and they hit their head on something. Australia has a big 'One punch can kill' campaign because for some dumb reason people were going about just punching people in the middle of the street and running off. A few people died impacting the gutter and such.

>>55147575
>implying you'd see it coming
>implying people haven't been killed by it before

By all means, continue to argue against facts, it seems like all you can do is spout lies anyway.

This guy sounds like the sort of person who thought McGregor would beat Mayweather, because MMA is "better" than boxing.

>>55145877
Because 8e is bad, even if the recent predecessors were worse. That said, that was MTV first comment in the thread. The idea that something either perfectly represents all lore or fails completely in a bianary way is dumb. It's a scale of better/worse at it. 8e is bad at this, even by the metrics of 40k editions.

>>55147598
Not really, I'm doing it because it pisses you guys off and I enjoy being a cunt. You can't handle a contrary opinion and automatically flip to claiming someone is NEET or a still in highschool retard. Which is really telling that those are the only two things you guys defer to as being lower than yourself (subtly indicating your own position on the totem pole). By pointing out I'm not the highschool or NEET you so desperately wish I was, and point out that IRL, just like here, I can get away speaking my mind and telling the truth.

Truth like 8th edition is shit and designed to be sold to the lowest common denominator who's going to try and buy the newest shiniest plastic kit as they actually suck at any aspect of the game beyond, run-shoot-run-melee with aforementioned new shit.

>>55145106
>Last Decade or so.
So 5th edition?

>>55147637
I didn't imply I'd see it coming, I implied I don't care or fear it, cause I don't. Throw the punch you end up the prison bitch, not me.
>>55147631
I know about the Aussie campaign, I'm familiar that most fatal attacks occur between 1-4 in the morning usually either involving a hit from behind from a larger aggressor on a smaller, heavily intoxicated person or a situation where the person hits the back of their head on a hard surface causing a thing called "coning" where pressure from the swelling inside the head forces the brainstem out the foramem magnum (hole at base of skull). I know about coning as had to right report for workplace accident in New Guinea where a worker was killed after wandering into an area without PPE where the company was using a crane to repair and replace a part of a large gas rig. I also know that death by punch actually makes up less than 0.0001% of injury outcome when it comes to common assault and you have more chance of dying by bee sting that punch. Not for hitting people but the campaign drastically over blows the risks involved with getting punched. I don't fear someone punching me, its happened before the worst I got was a black eye.

File: 121.png (331KB, 600x1081px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 600x1081px

>>55147710

>Not really, I'm doing it because it pisses you guys off and I enjoy being a cunt.

File: 7307.jpg (30KB, 355x336px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 355x336px

>He doesn't Cream Soda and soft pretzels

faggots, the lot of you.

>Playing as Skaven
>Autistically nibble on my pretzels like a squirrel, pretending it's trash
>Drink my soda from a hamster feeder bottle pretending it's recycled skavenblight urine
>Chitter and crawl around on all 4's when I have to move to different sides of the table
>Call my opponent a beard-thing since he's playing dorfs
>Release my many pet rats into the store when I summon rat swarms
>Run back into the store's crawl space when I lose and refuse to come out.

The problem with modern gaming is not enough dedication to your setting.

>>55148330
>Hurr Durr I use tired meme cause my calling person not NEET a NEET and child didn't work so I use someone elses drawing because I'm too lazy and too stupid to actually bother to either think or put effort into anything other than getting my jimmies rustled cause bad internet person rightly pointed out I'm lazy and stupid like most of my oversensitive generation. Lazy and stupid is why I don't want to think about gaming either or put in any effort (hence the love of 8th edition),

>>55148565
Exactly, everyone wants everything done for them without putting in the effort to either play games with rules more complicated than tic-tac-toe or actually spend the time to assemble, convert and paint an army instead fielding the latest grey plastic crap.

>>55147711
It's definitely better than 5th edition for damn sure. Still has the shit TLOS, but you can't win everything.

>>55146497
Yeah, we're all deathly terrified of middle managers who punch their employees. Truly terrifying.

>>55149061
You should be. Office beatings are usually pent up and excessive.

File: 3fD44Gv.png (298KB, 500x628px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 500x628px

>>55131750

ITT: bitter lonely grognard high on shrooms whines about kids these days and brags about unverifiable real-life details that somehow also make him an authority at 40K.

Pathetic. There's nothing here we haven't heard before and more cleverly phrased.

What we have here is a living equivalent to the Manlet Marines, angry that the Chadmarine millennials are going to replace him and outlive him. Take your existential night terrors to a therapist, dude, not to /tg/.

>>55132005
No one has an intellectual obligation to debate an opinion, and certainly not one that is so obviously self-centered, irrational, and unfounded. You've conflated your feelings with facts, friendo. Accept that you're actually the idiot here, and take the opportunity to grow from it.

>>55133677
>but you work poorly

>he's part of the generation which made up wars to impress daddy
>he's part of the generation which crashed the bank markets
>he doesn't actually work hard because he's a middle manager
>not even one of the big boys
>he's part of the generation which trashed the ozone layer
>he's part of the generation which melted the ice caps

>he throws a tantrum and cries as he watches the keys to the kingdom slip from his grasp


you're a loser in real life and you're a loser on this chinese image board

I'm an engineer, I'm younger than you, make more money than you, and dump hotter women than you have ever had in your life.

>>55133466
name one time you actually played a narrative game

because honestly you sound like you only played dawn of war kill points

>>55148565
Really though, calling your opponent a beard-thing in a skaven voice while he dwarf-boasts back at you would be amazing. For the first few minutes at least, maybe it'd get old fast.

File: great unclean one.jpg (242KB, 555x552px) Image search: [Google]

242KB, 555x552px

Children, children! Why do you squabble so amongst yourselves? You'll break your dear old Grandfather's heart---or rupture His eardrums, more likely. Be silent and listen while He tells you a tale...

You will all grow old, sicken, and die, but not before you live to see the next generation supplant you. The successes and failures of your lives will all count equally as dross-nothing in their eyes. They will see their own inevitable fates writ large in your every wrinkle and liver-spot, and they will scorn and jeer you for your aged infirmities to mask their creeping horror at the fate of all mortal flesh. Your skill and ambition will bring you all to the same place: a worm-feast six feet underground. Think on this, ye prideful, and despair.

There now, children. Is the Grandfather not magnanimous?
Now bugger off and stop all this racket.

>>55132263
KILL
YOUR
SELF

No, engineers aren't the go getters you make out. They don't know how the equipment they tell people to use works, they dont know the times nor can they calculate the expected work time depending on the drilling techniques, density of rock and depth of drilling. They dont understand the expected wear out rate of the different parts of different drill rigs, the cost of the equipment depending on area, brand and rig type. Carry on you make more money than I do, you don't. You'd probably make the same money I do, even less if you're fresh out of Uni. And also get used to guys like me in my position not having wasted our time or money on college having a bigger say on mine projects than most engineers save the chiefs (guys in their late 40's and 50's), getting paid the same or more, and having the ability to make you look like a complete failure by undermining your works so the costs blow out, all the while with me being free to tell you to get fucked if you've spent anything less than 10 years in Engineering in the specific area of drilling. You are the guys that decide the specific details of each little drill, I'm the guy who's knowledge, contacts and work makes it happen. Without people filling the position I do you wouldn't be able to do the job you do. Add in the fact there are less people like me that can do what I do compared than there are engineers like you who do what you do, use your mental arithmetic and work out who's more expendable to a big mining company. You're the guys who decide who decide where to dig a hole, I'm the guy incharge of deciding what you need, organising for your permits to be completed, allocating and organising the hiring and hiring requirements, making sure your equipment gets to where it gets, making sure repairs, maintenance and safety are up to standard, making sure spare parts are on hand in the company warehouse, and making sure the people working your dig or drill are the best qualified and trained as they can possibly be.

>>55151297
>>55150101
In short, until you grow into a senior role you're an over educated gimp who'll need to learn to kiss the asses of his drillers, leading hands and key staff as well as learning to eat shit from other engineers and guys in the industry like me until you've earned your spot at the company table with the chief engineers.

I had to do it, I started as a 16 yo offsider. I ate shit for the better part of 12 years. I've eaten enough shit, and proven myself good enough for the job I can act with the impunity I've bragged about.

As for the you dumping all those good looking women I aint questioning your successes nor seeking to compare myself. Just suggesting that you might have some major issues yourself if you either cant find one worth keeping (meaning your taste is shit) or the girls figured out despite your big engineering paycheck it's not worth the effort of having to put up with you to either persist or try harder. I'd see a therapist about that dude, you might be happier in life. If that fails try viagra, that could also explain the girls not hanging around.

>>55151297
There are no words to describe how egotistical this wall of text comes across as, you my friend are a narcissist of the highest degree, plz find your self some other board to pollute, may i suggest /b/ or perhaps do all of 4chan a favour and go onto tumblr like the other snowflakes

>>55151396
>55151461 you plz do the same

>>55131750
I mostly agree, especially about the fluff, however,
>templates
were a huge pain, I'd much rather just roll, say, 2d6 than spend 90 seconds trying to pick the perfect position for my shot, and then squabble with my opponent about whether I got 6 guys or 7
>controlling player chooses which of his models he'll remove
40k is a heroic game, and I'd like to have my squad leaders at the front leading the charge, rather than hiding at the back in case they get shot.

>this fucking guy has written a short novel about how much he fucking hates millenials and hr and is a s00per st@r
>on a toy space soldier image-based shitposting forum for porn and roleplaying

Man, I love /tg/ in the morning

File: 1500097981320.gif (3MB, 800x708px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 800x708px

>>55131750
things I like about 8th:
>removal of templates
>vehicles no longer penalized for not being monstrous creatures
>close combat order chosen by players, adds a little tactical depth to the assault phase
>removal of challenges, they were stupid and penalized certain armies way too much
>melee range shenanigans are fun and reward smart positioning on both sides
>power disparity between factions massively reduced
>AP modifiers are a good change
>movement as a unit stat is also a good addition
>deterministic deep striking means you don't lose on turn two due to one bad dice roll
>degrading stats for some units as they lose wounds is nice, I also like that which stat is lost depends on the unit
>I actually like the return of the "controlling player chooses which guy dies" mechanic, it makes sergeants and specials/heavies more useful
>changes to rules with moving and shooting weapons are good, less "sit n' shoot," more "scoot n' shoot," game feels more dynamic and fluid overall
>horde units actually have a purpose now
>strategems and command points are a decent way to reward players for bringing balanced armies
things I don't like about 8th:
>a lot of homogenized rules (seems like everything re-rolls 1s)
>many factions seem to have lost their flavor, like your example with salamanders, and instead received new rules that don't make all that much sense and don't feel "special"
>blast weapons are still too random and weak, they could've chosen a better substitute for templates
>damage as a weapon stat is a good change overall, but it's too random, too many d3s and d6s, I'd prefer a more deterministic approach
>vehicles being stuck in melee feels weird
>TLoS is shit, bring back the 4th ed LoS rules
>cover is much more beneficial for armies that have good saves to begin with, and the rules for claiming cover are far too strange and strict
>flamers autohit flyers for some reason
>leadership is either completely irrelevant or a huge fucking problem, with no in-between

>>55151764
generally agree the pros outweigh the cons, could 8th improve? Absolutely but to say it is "shit" is simply wrong, and while I agree that vehicle arcs and some tactical depth needs to be added, comparing to 7th (and even 5th) it is a somewhat better IMO but hey OP, it could be that the majority of people disagree with you and are wrong about a subjective, vague idea

>>55134197

My Orks got more playable, but given we were absolute bottom of the barrel in 7th that's not exactly a difficult thing to achieve. But at the same time, they took my army and turned it into 7th edition Tyranids: monobuild, in this case green tide.

Now, I don't mind this entirely, as I have 180 painted Boyz, but I also have hundreds of other models that I'd love to use as well. Cover changes made Lootas and Flash Gitz require transports, but the game also pushed the points costs of transports through the roof. "But they're more suvivable now!" I hear you say. A little yes, but 4+ save T7 battlewagon is pretty damn fragile in the face of the kind of firepower Imperial armies are bringing to the battlefield.

Which brings up another thing, the twin-link change. This one hit Orks ludicrously hard. Previously twin-linked was the way for Orks to overcome poor BS. Then GW decided that it just doubled shots. This was a nerf for Ork weapons, but a gigantic buff to Imperials, since they were usually hitting on 2+ or 3+ anyway. Handing them double the shots in exchange for a reroll they rarely used (and which was instantly replaced by Gulliman or Chapter Tactics) is really rubbing salt in the wound.

So that left assault, but overpriced transports and overpriced power klaws doomed Ork assault units that weren't Boyz or plain Nobz. Painboy changes ensured they won't show up much anymore, KFF is still overpriced, and Warbikes are dreadful now. So it's Boyz Boyz Boyz.

File: 1462406440280.png (668KB, 768x768px) Image search: [Google]

668KB, 768x768px

You can just keep playing 7ed...

That what me and my group does...

Most of my problems with 8th edition are basic problems with how GW does things.

>>55151902
yeah, isn't 30k getting 7th edition blackjack and hookers ediiton?

>>55151902
>literally playing the worst edition

I don't understand, you'd think a group that's fine with playing out of date rules would've stuck to 4E, 5E, even fucking 6E. My guess is you only play 7E because you're all newfags.

>>55149705
I guess it hurts then that this idiot managed to find himself a place in life where he gets paid decently and not fired for being a cunt no matter how much of a one I choose to be. I guess it hurts that a self-centred, irrational unfounded guy like e (a long with many other self-centred irrational guys) gets exactly what he wants out of life and can say, not irrationally but plainly, your dumbed down version at this point is a shit show in as desperate need of reworing as 7th edition, without care for flashback or consequence. Keep living with the crowd dude, keep safe and envious whilst you look at dumber less capable people like myself get the things they want, and you never will. Atleast there are plenty of participation medals, group hugs, and safe spaces to act as an opiate to the painful realization you'll never be as special nor exceptional as Mummy, Daddy and your teachers told you because you never learned to take risks, work or be comfortable enough in yourself to disregard walking against a herd. You can have Star Bucks, the rest of us have the world beardy man.

>>55152105
Holy shit dude, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and discuss the pros and cons of 8th until you posted this embarrassing shit.
How old are you? You know you have to be 18+ to post on 4chan, right? Or are you just genuinely this much of a sperg?

>>55152105
that's hilarious in the context of someone complaining about games of plastic army men on 4chan

>>55151867
>This was a nerf for Ork weapons
It's strictly better in all cases.

For Orks, here are the probabilities for a 1-shot twinlinked weapon:
>0 hits: 4/9
>1 hit: 5/9
For two shots with the same weapon:
>0 hits: 4/9
>1 hit: 4/9
>2 hits: 1/9

>>55152105
>I guess it hurts then that this idiot managed to find himself a place in life where he gets paid decently and not fired for being a cunt no matter how much of a one I choose to be
I guess it hurts that 10 yo trust fund babies have as much disposable income as you while literally not working, traveling the world, fucking sluts and not getting fired because they literally get money for nothing while you have some shitty semi-bluecollar engineering-management gig.

>>55152199
The TL change is still asymmetrically bad for Orks. For an Ork weapon to go from old-TL to new-TL is a miniscule buff. For an Imperial weapon to go from old-TL to new-TL is a massive buff.

You can say "take what you can get," but these across-the-board buffs to shooting were balanced by an across-the-board buff to unit durability, and the tiny buff that TL Ork weapons received doesn't come close to matching up to it.

>>55152362
Blood for the Blood God! Death to the Bourgeoisie!

>>55152362
Not him but it does hurt.

I'm mad jelly of trust fund rich kids.

>>55152425
And that's all because their parents didn't fall for the engineering meme and became doctors or lawyers.

>>55152362
It does, it's why I bitterly post about plastic men and how one should play them as I want these borderline trans kids with their Flappamuttchinos and ambiguity to realize that they're the biggest generational let down since the fall of Rome. As a bitter Gen X I've had to work harder than the Baby boomers to get what I have and to where I've got to see them try and pass the torch directly to a generation so pathetically fragile and stupid they can't figure out which gender they are, how their own genitals work, which gender they most like to stick said genitals in or on, all the whilst blaming everyone else for feeling looked down upon and confused (even though they're looked down upon because they are stupid tantrum throwing fuckwads to stupid to work out who they like to screw). The fact that communism and fascism are gaining traction as popular political ideas in millenials goes to show that apart from being fragile little bludgers they're also prone to being competely fucktarded in forming sensible political opinion.

>>55152477
>The fact that communism and fascism are gaining traction as popular political ideas in millenials goes to show that apart from being fragile little bludgers they're also prone to being competely fucktarded in forming sensible political opinion.
>believing centrism works
I figured out why you enjoy 7th more. You actually enjoy shitty, unworkable systems that fuck you in the ass while pretending they are the est alternative and everything else is a slippery slope straight into hell.

>>55152502
Give me a lazy, hackneyed passive system I can rort over a group of snowflakes who's political journey results in increasing mass murder due to unfounded paranoia and moral purity required to power the dead horse that is totalitarianism. At the end of the day as long as the system lets me act like an asshole, do what I want and not have to lower my standards enough to embrace an ideology or form of governance as pants-on-head retarded as the Alt-Right or Progressive Left currently are then I'm fine. Besides, I highly doubt that any red flag waving tranny or golf shirt wearing virgin is going to actually have the physical or mental means to send anyone beyond a cuckholded sympathiser to any Gulag/Concentration camp. Even if they could did most would break out cause you guys half arse everything and couldn't be arsed to do it properly, hence my contempt (you probably get Mum and Dad to sub contract guys like me to build it for you).

>>55141256
What does that prove? How does more games make the concept of facings without bases an unbearable problem?

>>55152502
>>55152575
As an afterthought you didn't deny not knowing what to do with Genitals, maybe work that out before trying to work politics out. You may prove me wrong by stating what you think you genitals are used for, and help everybody by drinking bleach if the answer includes anime.

>>55132657
Infinity

>>55152502
Extremists get the bullet too.

>>55131750
>Obliteraters suck with thier random guns

They're pretty damn powerful on average: a strength 8 AP-2 D2 4 shot gun on average is hardly bad. At worst it's a strength 7 AP-1 D1, which isn't good but it's not too far off an exterminator Autocannons for a fraction of the cost.

Then again I might just have bad experiences with them. My last chaos enemy deep struck 6 oblits onto the top floor of a really high piece of city terrain just outside my deployment zone, fired twice, then strategem-fired a second time with the closer of the two oblit squads.

18 Wounds on my two Russes turn 1, and that was dead average results. Ow. >

>>55152575
> a lazy, hackneyed passive system
>as long as the system lets me act like an asshole
literally 7th edition
apex kek

>>55134197
Only WAAC tourney fag lists
They can burn anyway, no one likes them

>>55134197
Not really. Had to do some organizing, like with any new edition/codex, but I'm perfectly happy with what I got. Now, if only I got to have an proper codex...

>>55151535
On the flip side, this means blasts only ever hit one unit. Even if they're all bunched up next to each other. It also means Conscripts in Napoleonic lines.

>>55151982
I was a youngun when I played 3rd so don't remember much about specific mechanics. 5th though, there are things I feel 7th did better than it though. For me, the thing that I don't look back kindly on for 5th was Shooting. Musical Wounds were one thing, but Nob Bikers ended up being hard-countered by most every 5e army. The weird things were 50% cover (if one model is in cover, every model is in cover. Aka, Forests were a forcefield for blobs), and Torrent of Fire (aka the best way to "snipe" out enemy models was by weight of dakka).

7th shooting made sense, and the only real tweaks it needed were "defender chooses casualties vs Barrage" (since otherwise they were a bit too good for sniper duty), and tweaking Look Out Sir. Definitely less of a blatant exploit than running 6 Culexus Assassins in an all-character army.

>>55152383
Not to mention that Orks don't get access to reroll auras while most Imperial armies do. For Space Marines in particular, Chapter Master means you're rerolling all to hits and you get double shots.

Not to mention that Hit Mods are far more prevalent than 7th, and -1 to-hit is far worse when you're only hitting on 5+ to begin with.

>>55147497
I was actually just talking about getting knocked to the ground and cracking your skull or tearing an artery

Me and my buddy bought start collecting boxes in January, and both built up 2000 point armys before we would play. We started playing right when 8th edition came out, and we have tons of fun playing 8th.

Rolled 1 + 99 (1d1 + 99)

>>55152674
because you will learn that there are better things out there. Stop existing in a bubble

File: yweygweweygywe.jpg (129KB, 636x724px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 636x724px

>>55134234
wheeeeee
suddenly painting these gargoyles doesnt seem so bad

>>55152502
Fascism and communism have been stomped into the ground at every turn, because they're the ideologies of weak willed cuckolds that instinctively roll over and spread the moment they're told, and this is how it'll always be. Sorry son.

>>55155172
I've played plenty of games, some with bases and some without, and having bases has not made any difference. You stop existing in your bubble and learn to play without bases.

>>55140950
Free most of the time but even in the index there are exceptions. Tau have to choose whether to use Greater Good shots because it turns off their remaining overwatch.

>>55140950
Also choosing whether and how to use the counter-charge CP.

I hate the ruleset, but I haven't liked the game itself since late 4th/early fifth honestly.
The last 10 years I've been more of a collector/painter rather than a player.

Most arguments I've seen in favour of 8th are about it being better than 7th. Sure I can agree with that, but that isn't much of an achievement given the bloated corpse of 7th was easily the lowest point of 40k. It's still a far cry from what 40k used to be.

Oh how I loathe what Apocalypse did to this game. What a wonderful idea to turn a skirmish game into superheavies detachments and formations.

>>55158336
I'm with you on Apocalypse' bad influence. But I still wouldn't call early 3rd Ed. a skirmish game.

>>55158336
Inversely, given the assorted lolwats of 8th, even calling it better than 7th is a stretch. I seriously doubt people are calling 7th awesome (I mean, it had 80+ USRs, with a lot of pointless ones), but given everything else 8th has done, I chalk up its support do GW doing actual marketing now.

I'm honestly in the homebrew side more nowadays.