It seems allot of folks dislike and or hate pathfinder so far.

I believe a lot of people just find it easier to run other games. I've never ventured outside of 3.5 and I enjoyed it. Now without a group I'll never be able to.

>>55113852
When did we go back to 2009?

>>55113852
Are you going to actually come here, to a place infamous for being full of whining manchildren who do nothing but shit on everything twenty-four hours a day, and take shitposting as a good sample group for fucking anything? Allow me to dust off an old classic and say that is pretty fucking retarded

>>55114135
Any reason he could dig up here for hating Pathfinder's as good as any, though.

>>55113896
>I've never ventured outside of 3.5 and I enjoyed it.
>Compared to the Ebola, I find the a syphilis much more enjoyable.

Anon 3.5 is absolute bottom of the barrel shit as far as RPGs go, Pathfinder is slightly less shit but still pretty goddamn terrible.
For your own sake man, look into one of the hundreds of good RPGs, we have the glory of piracy and the internet for just that reason.

>>55114155
There's nothing in the world that everyone likes. not even being alive. There's reasons to dislike any system, but 4chan is not a fucking example. If you want to find out why you should dislike Pathfinder, read the books and then form an opinion. I respect OP for taking that crucial step that few people do around here, and I encourage him to at least simulate the game and decide whether he likes it rather than come here looking for an excuse to write it off

One of the worst tabletop communities. The general OP pics should tell you why

>>55114425
Everyone in the threads hates the anime OPs, but whoever the fuck keeps posting them has a lot of dedication and never even waits for the thread to fall enough pages after hitting the limit.

>>55113852
Honestly the core stuff is some of the bigger issues. You can likely run a better game using later splat books and banning the core classes entirely.

>>55114179
You'd think with such claims the man would list at least SOME of the RPGs he thinks are good!

>>55114179
Clearly you've never played WoD or RIFTS.

>>55113852
>Is the extra stuff really that bad or is it something else?
No, the corebooks are.

>>55115117
They never do, anon, they never do.

>>55115143
They always do and you always disregard them with some shitty comeback that doesn't actually address why the provided games are worse than your infested pile of burning shit that is 3.pf

>>55113852
tg is currently a cesspool taken over by weebs, /pol/ scum and /tv/ memelords

Pathfinder is fine. Internet Pathfinder is trash.
don't get advice from /tg/

>>55113852
Roll up a first level finesse Fighter, and then compare it to the Druid's animal companion for a rough idea of how well designed the game is.

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>>55115121
>Unironically thinking WoD or RIFTS is bad.
>Thinking that 3.5 or Pathfinder is better then either of them.
>Having taste this objectively shit.

>>55115117
"Literally fucking anything outside the D20 system that isn't MYFAROG, FATAL or that weird furry knockoff of Eclipse Phase"

>>55113852
the fuck is allot

>>55113852
Why would you listen to a bunch of autists?

>>55114609
Oh yeah I know that, I'm trying to say it's a very vocal minority that make a mockery of it for everyone else

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>>55114425
What's wrong with the current OP pic, the Anime Kitsunefag(2hu) seems to have moved on to Starfinder general.

As someone who plays Pathfinder, it has it's fair share of issues but nothing insurmountabl like literally every other fucking system. It opens up a lot of freedom in terms of what you can make especially if you use 3pp content which is generally better made than the stuff Paizo publishes. Ultimately, whether or not PF is an okay game for you depends on what you value as a GM/Player.

But I am going to echo one sentiment, branch out from the CRB and ban the core classes. The game will be way more balanced that way.

>>55113852
Class and Archetype Bloat
Poor Class Balance
Devs can't keep their politics out of the game
Shitty default setting
Errata so martial characters can't have nice things

>>55118937
>If you use what fans made that fixes the game!
I bet you love Skyrim and Fallout 4 too.

>>55118937
Thank fuck, that guy was pure cancer.
But yeah it really does have some issues, a pf2.0 would be great.

>>55118960
I think the biggest problem pf has is how cumbersome and fiddly the ruleset is. 5e made a move to the right direction by replacing lots of situational modifiers by a simpler advantage/disadvantage system, but Paizo should take it even further. Streamline the classes, cut down the amount of rules, that kind of stuff.

>>55115121
Nigga, WoD is some sublime shit compared to 3.5

>>55119159
>has never played either

>>55113852
1. Bait
>Is the extra stuff really that bad or is it something else?
2. Oooh this is bait

No, core is shit, here's your (you), happy now?

>I never had a problem with core only PF
genuinelly how?
The fact that Druid's familiar (a bear for example) outclasses PHB monks with anything but 25+ point buy seems to be a pretty good reason of why people dislike PF, specially core PF

>>55118958
No, but I can see why people can enjoy them modded. I won't call PF a good game, but I enjoy what it more with 3pp than I do other games vanilla and that's good enough for me. I honestly think it's more like using a fanpatch for a game like Fallout 2 or Arcanum that fixes bugs and adds missing content. Especially since a lot of the good 3pp was just putting in missing subsystems from 3.5 that Paizo hated because Paizo is retarded.

This is all ignoring that a modded video game is different than table top RPG, where fans making modifications to suit them is something to be expected.

>>55119407
Developers leaving massive holes in their game because "modders will fix it" or "people will houserule it" is shit.

>>55113852
Literally the only reason you see "a lot" of folks hating on it is because there are a few dedicated shitposters who like to do nothing but exaggerate on how bad it is.

Like this nutjob.
>>55114179


I genuinely think this guy is retarded, but his mother lacks the sense to keep him away from a keyboard.

>>55119486
>Literally the only reason you see "a lot" of folks hating on it is because there are a few dedicated shitposters
Oh no there must be a conspiracy of haters against Pathfinder!

>>55119503
>3 autists who spam copypasta
>conspiracy
Don't flatter yourself

>>55119545
>People can't dislike my poorly designed ttrpg!

>>55119561
>people who have sensible criticism spam the same shitpost day for day instead of just playing something else

>>55119503
>conspiracy

No, just a few guys who have nowhere else to complain because they'd be banned from every other place you can discuss roleplaying games.

>>55119604
Not him, but a lot of people has sensible criticism, for example, one of the greatest problems with PF is CMD bloat and how even high invesment in maneuvers (now cost two feats instead of 1 like in 3.5) doesn't mean you'll succeed like at fucking all at them

>>55119637
I dunno I'm playing a warpriest with no feats or magic items in tripping and I'm tripping giants, wurms, etc pretty fucking easily only with Str+Bab+Weapon enhancement bonus. Seems like you're bullshiting.

>>55119664
Ah, so you are provoking AoO everytime?

>>55119637
That's a far cry from
>PATHFINDER IS THE WORST GAME EVER EVERYONE WHO PLAYS IT IS RETARDED

But, if people just said "Pathfinder is a good game with some flaws, and is not my taste", they wouldn't get any attention, hence the hyperbole and exaggeration

>>55119664
>Worm
>CMD 40 (can’t be tripped)
>"I trip worms easily"
...I dunno, seems like it's you the one bullshiting

>>55119455
I don't really deny that.

>>55113852
Even the core system is a clunky, bloated, mess that is still, somehow, less flexible and versatile than lighter systems. Add in a decade of splat books and a community of entitled man-children, and you're left with a waste of time.

>>55119675
Why is good though? what makes 3.PF good compared to other games?

>>55119673
I don't.
>>55119685
Maybe you don't know how to properly use trip maneuver.

>>55115121
>WoD is worse than 3.PF
You're one dumb fucking nigger.

>>55119731
If you are going to bait you need to make it less obvious.

>>55119708
Why are you asking?
Are you a retarded troll looking for an argument?
Cause, It's kind of obvious that you are if you're asking a question with obvious answers.

Here. Do me a favor. Prove you're not a troll, and provide your own answers so I don't have to flat out dismiss you as an idiot.

Call it dodging the question if you want, but if you can't come up with five answers yourself, you're really not someone I'd bother discussing this with anyway.

>>55113852
It isn't as interesting as some of 3.5 with splats.

And it empowered the T1s and T2s, which further exacerbated 3.5's internal party balance problems

>>55119731
Actually I think he does. CMD goes apeshit on larger enemies due to high STR plus you can't trip anything more than 1 size category larger than you. Must be some tiny giants.

>>55119785
People usually ask questions they don't have answers too. That is the point of a question.

>>55114179
are these posts really necessary or do you revel in destroying all conversation on this board until it's /v/ tier?

>>55119800
CMD increases due Hit die, Str, Dex, number of appendages AND Size...and pray to god they don't also have feats to improve it. It's silly how fast it increases to the point hitting AC is going to be easier.

>>55119808
But people also ask stupid questions they have answers to if they're looking do nothing but start an argument. And this is a question with plenty of obvious answers, with many of them subjective and dependent on taste.

You still gonna pretend?

>>55119800
I mean, enlarge person is a spell.

>>55119861
Well let's try for a less subjective question then. What does Pathfinder do that other systems don't?

>>55119785
>It's obvious you're a troll if you don't think 3.PF is a good game
Deflecting the question?
What makes 3.PF good that I can overlook feat trees, CMD, balance problems with some classes, 10001 types of bonuses you have to write down, arbitrary stat/skill distribution, etc? what remains after that? 1d20+Bonus mechanic? lots of games have that without the problems already mentioned, so again, what makes 3.PF good?

>inb4 I'm not going to answer and dismiss your post as "memes"

>>55119895
>10001 types of bonuses you have to write down, arbitrary stat/skill distribution
wut?

>>55119895
>inb4 I'm not going to answer and dismiss your post as "memes"

Good. You recognize how pathetic you are yourself.

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>>55116134

>>55119731
>Fire Giant
>CR 10
>CMD 31
>Warpriest
>level 10
>CMB 18(7 BAB, +1 Weapon Focus, +7 STR, +3 weapon)
>Trips him less than half the time without being buffed to all hell and back
>Also provokes AoO

>>55113852
The game is actually pretty good, only second to Gurps (but slightly better than Myfarog). It's really the fan base that's terrible. And the lead designers hate math and will throw fits if you give them any constructive criticism of any kind. It's kind of like how when Anime fans grew up and started making Anime themelves they ruined Anime, now that the autistic faggots that played the original RPGs are adults they're making shitty autistic games.

>>55119920
Types of bonuses I recall: Insight, Competence, Luck, Moral, Racial, Untyped, Alchemical, Enhacement, Inherent, Sacred, Size, Trait, etc. It overcomplicates the game, it makes turns last forever and even making the use of a calculator almost needed.

As for stat/skill distribution I meant why is Intimidate based on Cha and not on Str or Int (or all three)? why an Ogre with negative Cha can't intimidate for shit? he seems pretty intimidating. Why is Acrobatics a skill Dex dependant? you being a dude with 50 Str means nothing to jump further? so I basically can lift a house with one hand but can't jump farther than 2 meters? is not a big problem compared to others though, but it's a problem.

>>55119861
But the only real answer to anon's question is: I have sunk so much resources in that games that they must be good.

>>55119993
Lets be honest, nobody here who plays 3.PF spent a cent on it, we pirated the shit out of that game.

>>55119993
>why does everyone think I'm a stupid troll?

Because you can't even pretend to want an earnest discussion for a whole two posts.

>>55120011
This is probably the best thing about PF.

>>55120011
Time is also a resource. And maybe not here but lots of people bought them legally.

>>55120040
It's my first post in this thread, keep trying faggot

>PFanon disguises as the detractors and memes his way into the thread so any legit problem or post is dismissed
Everytime

>>55120056
>about PF
I dunno, it's been 15 years since I bought an rpg book from any game I played, piracy is not unique to PF.

>>55120090
But the devs for PF are fine with all of their shit being free online.

>>55120074
What part of "you guys are idiot trolls who spam this shit daily" is dismissing criticisms?

People know the game has flaws.
Your issue is that you are so single-minded that you honestly can't do anything but shitpost about how much you hate the game.

>>55120151
>People know the game has flaws.
To this day there are still people who think Monk is overpowered and CoDzilla doesn't exist.

>>55120172
To this day you're still a faggot troll.

>>55113852
Personally, I dislike the system. The entire idea of getting 3.5, the most redundant and wonky edition of D&D there is, then stapling more stuff onto it is terrible.

But if you enjoy it then that's fine. I'd just advise looking into other games and comparing them. That might give you a better perspective on why Pathfinder is often looked down on.

>>55120177
Wrong and you didn't address the point.

Ok, what was the problem here?
>20 point buy game 3 core books only game
>Make monk
>16, 14, 14. 9, 16, 7
>AC 16 at the begining (Dodge)
>+1/+1 (1d6+3)
>Then the Druid's bear has
>AC 18 (light armor +3) and even 20 if druid casts bark skin
>+3/+3+/+3 (1d4+2, 1d4+2, 1d3+2)
At 4th level
>Monk
>AC 17-18 if lucky
>+6/+6
>Animal companion
>AC 20 (light armor +4 or even +5) more if shared spells
>+8/+8+/8 (1d6+5. 1d6+5, 1d5+5)
Why?

>>55120216
He isn't addressing any point, he's just yelling "trolls and memes" to any valid argument.

>>55120216
>I will shitpost until every last person knows everything I consider to be a fault with the system

Good luck with that buddy.
Get used to people ignoring you and calling you a faggot.

>>55120229
What "valid argument?"

You're just an idiot troll complaining on 4chan, hoping to present his subjective opinions as facts.
Dismissing you, man. You, in your entirety.

>>55120219
The problem is that monk sucks and so do rogue, ranger, paladin and fighter with a core only approach.

>>55120266
>Hurr durr solipsism

>>55120266
see >>55119989
>>55119895

>>55120284
What? Your subjective opinions? Neat.
People are going to disagree with you.
Get used to it.

Now, quit shitposting and learn how to evaluate games from a fair stance, rather than trying to justify your hatred first and then filling in the rest as you go along.

>>55120311
Pretty sure looking at the game's math is about as fair of a stance as you can get.

>>55120311
>Math and mechanics
>Subjective
ok

>>55120266
There is only one person who disagrees with me and it is a troll, because I say so. Therefore my shitty opinions must be right.

>>55120345
>>55120327

>math and mechanics in a roleplaying game
>in a subjective discussion about the games overall quality

Please, you silly trolls. First name a game that you couldn't nitpick the math of and apply subjective stances in order to paint it as undesirable.

Go on. Name that perfect game.
Since you won't be able to, let's move on to the point where you realize that your "objective" belief is just a subjective opinion only held by a very small minority of the roleplaying community.

Or, you can remain idiot troll shitposting forever about how people keep playing a game you despise despite you shitposting so hard about it.

>>55120476
RISUS

>>55120476
>Name that perfect game
Doesn't have to be perfect it just has to be better than 3.PF. M&M for example, or Fantasy craft, need more?

>>55113852
>allot

>>55120529
Also 5e, it doesn't have any of the 3.PF problems

>>55120529
>M&M for example, or Fantasy craft, need more?

I like those games, but 3.PF is better than them in some ways.

So yes, you're going to have to try harder. Infinitely harder. Impossibly harder.

So, just give up.

>>55120476
You know, actual game designers don't go "but it's all subjective anyways :^)" to shut down arguments.

It has many problems that the devs are completely and willfully blind to.

>>55120634
Yeah, but they also respect that a lot is subjective, and that people have dramatically different tastes, and that roleplaying games are by far and large a subjective experience. :^)

>>55120597
>in some ways
>refuses to say which
So far you refused to really answer all the questions and refute the argumets. So back at you, can you actually try to follow the discussion?

>>55120665
No, not really. And by not really I mean they act like the exact opposite of how you claim they do.

>>55120580
It does, but it's much less blunt about it.

>>55120681
Do you earnestly disagree, or are you just hoping to pointlessly steer the argument towards nitpicking subjective opinions?

>>55120634
>When to excuse CMD bloat they go and tell you "but fighter anon, your mission isn't killing big monsters, that's the caster job, your mission is keep the minions occupied"
I almost pucked, fuck SKR and Jason Bulhman

>>55120700
Yeah, I disagree that 3.PF is better than M&M and Fantasy craft mechanically speaking. Setting and lorewise is really subjective and I can give you the benefit of the doubt there.

>>55120702
Tabletop RPG designers don't fucking count because they're literally the bottom of the barrel. You seriously don't see this behavior out of vidya game designers.

>>55120698
For example? I'm talking about the same problems as 3.PF, not new ones.

>>55120694
What? Roleplating games aren't subjective experiences?
I want to screencap your post to show the rest of the world how stupid you are.

>>55120729
? they're (were in case of SKR) the devs of PF, they forced the shit you encounter, they shut down any argument about PF problems, why isn't that relevant?

>>55120719
But there are some things it does better than M&M and Fantasycraft mechanically speaking. A lot, in fact, depending on who you ask and what kind of games they like to run.

>>55119886
Gives you a constant stream of shit to buy and fiddle with.

>>55120760
Again, may I know what things does it better?

I feel like we are not going anywhere here, you're not really arguing anything, you just reply with non arguments

>>55120811
I've found Fantasy Craft to actually be more rules dense during play, since while a smaller system it ends up with a lot of rules governing common actions, and it generally ends up being more difficult to work with thanks to some awkward math with checks and skewed combat math that definitely needs a lot of polish.

It also gets openly meta quite often, which I've never been a big fan of.

M&M is great for superhero games, but it's really not geared for fantasy adventure.

They're both good games, but I could easily understand why some people would rather play 3.pf if that was their personal taste.

>>55120978
>but it's really not geared for fantasy adventure.
No, it's not geared for loot-and-progression heavy fantasy adventure. That's not the same thing.

>>55121003
Sorry, princess. I hope no one else will offend your personal sensibilities.

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>>55121061

There are three classes that are objectively the best and most powerful, there is like eight that are okay, and there's like a billion classes that are awful.

The book makes no effort to tell you which ones are which despite the developers explicitly stating that this is intentional.

>>55121080
>3 that are objectively the best
Actually 4, Arcanist is goddamn powerful

>>55121078
It's honestly not that good. The feats are particularly terrible, and it's attempts to balance magic made magic feel a lot less fun and generally just cumbersome. I understand that was in part what it was trying to do, but a lot of other games do it much better.

It's only okay for a one-shot Conan-homage, but anything beyond that just makes it feel tiresome and makes me want to just play some actual Conan.

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Legend is better

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>>55113852
Why the fuck do PFfags try to latch onto Granblue? Their shitty game doesn't fit it at all mechanically or stylistically, and if they really wanted 'anime', why not all the systems that are far more conducive to anime?

It genuinely sickens me.

>>55121301
>The feats are particularly terrible
[citation needed]
>and it's attempts to balance magic made magic feel a lot less fun and generally just cumbersome.
Literally Vancian spell prep and casting except spells aren't expended when used and spell allocation is more organic, Magic except you save against Fatigue when it's used, and Magic except you roll against Knowledge(Arcane) is cumbersome? I have no idea how you play 3.5 then.

>>55121463
God, you are one prickly fuck.

>>55121546
When your assertions are more true of the game you're masturbating to than the game you're criticizing, maybe you should actually think about what you're saying. PF characters would kill for half of the feats in W&W.

>>55121613
I'm sorry, my mistake.
You're just a fuckly prick.

I don't understand how you expect anyone to take you seriously when you're reduced to sucking W&W's dick.
If that's your game, that's great, but it's not really convincing if you're hoping to use it as an example of great game design.

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>>55114179
No it isn't.

>>55121746
I don't know how you expect anyone to take *you* seriously when you're complaining about 'problems' in W&W that are a thousand times worse in Pathfinder while simultaneously calling everyone who points those out in PF as trolls and deriding their complaints as subjective. There are plenty of problems with M&M. Complaining about feats that give you actual new and effective options while not being obtrusive? Is bottom of the barrel shit.

>>55121849
> are a thousand times worse in Pathfinder
>not being obtrusive
What? The W&W feats do an amazing job of somehow succeeding to be less balanced than the ones in PF, and that's a fucking accomplishment.
W&W has some good things about it, but considering it's just a really awkward half-between of Conan and d20, it really only serves people who like M&M but are too scared to learn a system past their first step beyond d20.
Also, protip, quit trying to bite the head off of everyone who falls for your lukewarm bait. It's what makes you shitpost so hard that everyone recognizes you as just a guy who just hates 3.pf mindlessly.

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>Pathfinder is a flawless system
>Only one guy doesn't like Pathfinder, the revolutionary RPG
>This one, sad man, who can't stand looking at the beauty that Pazio made, must samefag 24/7, appearing as the hundreds of people who think Pathfinder is a useless pile of shit.
>Remember, it's only one person who disagrees with you, because you have such impeccable taste, and thus cannot be wrong.
>Pathfinder is perfect
>http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoInc Please Anons, go do yourselves a favor and buy this work of art, it changed my life.

>>55121978
>The W&W feats do an amazing job of somehow succeeding to be less balanced than the ones in PF
Yes, being able to trip someone when they miss you or get an extra attack when you crit is at all comparable to Leadership you trolling faggot.

>>55121988
>empty strawman

Look at this troll go! Whoo! He's self-destructing completely!

>>55120219
Monk is shit unless you are using it for very specific dips or builds. Even then, most classes can serve its purpose better than it can. It's the earliest lesson you should learn playing 3.X.

>>55122042
>Entire thread of "Everyone who doesn't like Pathfinder is samefagging"
>Gets called out on it and mocked
>STRAWMAN! REEEEEEEE!
Anon pls. You can play Pathfinder and 3.5 all you fucking want but don't pretend the system isn't shit and there's some grand conspiracy of people that disagree with you.
Your game is shit, people know it's shit and will say it's shit when people ask "Should I play PF"

>>55122576
>It's the earliest lesson you should learn playing 3.X
No, the earliest lesson you should learn is don't play 3.x

>>55121352
Draph are the most aesthetically pleasing race, both sexes.

>>55122758
Why are you even in this thread, dummy?

>>55122693
Aw, baby self-destructed, poor baby.
It's amazing how you still came back just to get mocked again for your really pathetic attempt at strawmanning and generally just being a stubborn troll who doesn't know when to stop shitposting.

>>55122792
This is not pfg. It's completely legit to come here to warn OP about the pile of shit 3.pf is and that he should at the very least try other games.

>>55122823
>EVERY ONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS JUST ONE PERSON

>>55122854
>I CAN'T READ

Man, what the fuck is your brain damage?

>>55122932

Its called denial mate.

Op here. Got to say you guys have gave me 'allot' of insight how toxic online communities can get with simply just asking a simple question.

However thanks for the replies. It did give some good insight with the flaws and or opinions. Of the system and other relating ones.

>>55124309
Whatever you do don't let /tg/ tell you what to like or what is bad.
Form your own opinion