/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55104556
>Question which splat is your waifu?

>>55104659
Werewolf. Don't even play it.

>>55104758

What makes werewolf so waifu-able?

>>55104990
Soft fluffy fur.

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So is it possible to be CUHRAYZEE in Demon the Descent?

>>55104659
Hunter of course. Risking willpower is a lot like a relationship with a woman. When you blow it you blow it hard with them.

>>55104990
I have a thing for aggressively strong women.

>>55105421
I've been reading Detroit Rock City actual play and werewolf women seem like colossal bitches.

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>>55105433
>Not wanting to cheeki Kitt's breeki.
Anon pls

>>55105245
Yes. Mix that with some of the theatrical fighting styles in mirrors for max crazy.

>>55105473
A man can only take being kicked in the head with combat boots so much.

New Hunter book when?

>>55105473
>>55105433
If I was a badass Urdaga I would bend Kitt's Iminir ass over and go to town!

>>55104556
Which VtR books are for Second Edition? It doesn't say explicitly on the Mega.

What would be the average day job for a member of House Flambeau of the Order of Hermes?

>>55105627
Beyond the core book, there's Secrets of the Covenant and Thousand Years of Night, bot of which are pretty meh. There are more in development.

>>55105627
What is Google?

Oh boy, I can't wait to see all your faces once you guys figure out the Contagion Chronicle is just going to be OWOD's "Vicissitude is a SPAAAACE VIRUS" shtick adapted for a new dice set. If it makes you feel better, you'll be able to give yourselves dick extensions that don't cause paradox.

>>55105515
>New Hunter book when?

Hunter 2e is in first or second drafts.

>>55105654
>What would be the average day job for a member of House Flambeau of the Order of Hermes?

Breakfast
Blow stuff up
Lunch
Burn stuff down
Dinner
Oppress Peasants
Study
Recreational Reading
Sleep

If I want to play a werewolf game should I go with W20 or WtF2?

Which is mechanically more interesting (not necessarily better, just more interesting) and which one would be easier to change the setting around?

>>55105852
WtF in both cases. Their setting is more easy take it as you want it with entire jettisonable segments for your universe if you hate the base more. WtA has always had a stronger through thread of the metaplot and details of the setting

>>55105920
What mechanical benefits does WtF have over WtA?

>>55105852
W20 for gay and lesbian/zoophiliac werewolves and WtF for badass hunters that doesn't afraid of anything

>>55105433
That's fine, so long as I would fall under something of a soft spot.

>>55105936
Better harmony system, better gift system, better rite system, better fetish system, story teller system is all around better, far more balanced as well since Werewolves don't automatically get shit loads of aggravated damage.

>>55105710
>OWOD's "Vicissitude is a SPAAAACE VIRUS"

But i love that plot point in Dirty secrets of the black hand.

>>55105710
>If it makes you feel better, you'll be able to give yourselves dick extensions that don't cause paradox

Anon you keep typing words but all i can read is winning.

>>55105654
>What would be the average day job for a member of House Flambeau of the Order of Hermes?

Mine had a mediocre antiqueshop that keep afloat thanks to the "pay Caesar due" rote.

>>55105936
>What mechanical benefits does WtF have over WtA?

>>55105982
>Better harmony system, better gift system, better rite system, better fetish system, story teller system is all around better, far more balanced as well since Werewolves don't automatically get shit loads of aggravated damage.

What this anon says plus less shitty rules for regeneration and lest cluttered rage/gnosis rules. Also no multiaction. That said Apocalypse has a more clear renown system.

Except harmony, Apocalypse is better off without a morality system of any kind because it drives home a theme of hubris in which there is not objective answer to the "good" or "bad" of your actions beyond "the not clear alien rules of this fuck up society"

That said if you are looking to run Old Werewolf with New werewolf i said, dont.

Both games are too different to be compatible. For example the character progression in apocalypse is that, as you grow older you become a leader of the nation and an example of your auspice. And there is a social stigma to acting outside your auspice.

In Forsaken you will need to cap aupice renown first before you are allowed to cap the other ones so you will reach "mastery" of auspice fairly quicker. And the idea is that as you grow older you become an apex predator master of all renown's. Kinda like Father wolf.

On the gift part, gifts in forsaken are easier to find and there is not such thing as rare gifts or even powerful ones. Its all accessible so far. So the idea of going off to the umbra to look for a secret gift is null in forsaken rules. As all gift are more or less on the same powerlevel by design.

For better rules try GURPS apocalypse, maybe its good.

>>55104659
Either Sin-Eaters or Werewoofs.

>>55104659

Bastet or Corax. Hard call either way.

>>55105936
Forsaken has better rules, but is a little more boring. Apocalypse is not an Exalted grade clusterfuck, but it's on the way.

I'm about to play my first WTA game ever. If I were to make a Lupus Glass Walker Theurge, would I be crippling myself if I took social tertiary? The idea is that a wolf raised in captivity with zero social skills and can talk to spirits better than others because they're no stranger than everyone else.

>>55107636
Fuck off furry before you get the knot up the side of your head.

>>55107785

I just wanna play a literally_Ariel humanaboo. Is that really so bad?

>>55107636

If you dm allows it, go for it.

So making a mortal turned Salubri in modern times, anyone have some good ideas for a backstory? I am having a writers block.

So, uh, thoughts on the 3 dot "Miracle of the Dead Sun" ritual from Secrets of the Covenant? The one that a neonate could use to blot out the sun for an hour?

Jesus. Wasn't the Big Kindred Saint supposed to have done it for like an hour and been regarded as a minor god for it?

Wait a second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUIcCyPOA30

Isn't this basically the plot of Mage?

>>55104659
Vampire. Paleskin goth cuties.

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Funny, when I saw a 'Forsaken in Rome' setting in the Dark Eras companion, I expected the main thrust to be Roman werewolves, not Germanic werewolves resisting the Roman legions.

That's actually a much more interesting plot hook.

Especially using the idea of Rome's recruitment from across their empire to then spin the idea of Roman werewolves uniting the Pure and Forsaken.

Though without reading much deeper, it does seem weird the shadow would freak out that much about this alliance. Maybe the Pure are pulling tricks in secret, which would be no surprise.

>>55109498
Its because the Magna Mater of Rome is an idigam that accidentally made it to earth well before the mass idigam breakout, so it is causing bad shit and nobody even knows to be concerned.

>>55109595
That's the big secret? The spirit of Rome is actually an idigam?

Do they have an explanation how it made it back? Or was it one of the ones that never went to moon jail?

>>55109731
It was riding around on a comet. It never made it to moon jail because it was possibly never on earth in the first place.

>>55108279
Because Secrets of the Covenants is a bad book, full of ridiculous powers for the generally more low-key sorceries, coils laws and oaths.

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>>55109829
>It's only ok when mage does it

>>55109915
Mage is internally balanced, at least in 2e. You don't do this across splats for analysis but internally. And it has some stupid shit for Vampire as a gameline.

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>>55109943
>I repeat myself it's only ok when mage does it

Blotting out the sun isn't a god-level feat, you numbskulls.
You're just covering its light in the area.

You want to complain about something?
Complain about Fate 5: Swarm of Locusts
>rains of frogs
>swarms of locusts
>unscheduled solar eclipses
>etc
Shit is whack even by Mage standards

>>55110107
>Fate Supremacy

>>55110107
>unscheduled solar eclipses

So by mastering Fate I can literally redirect the course of the sun and moon?

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Yes it's fucked

>>55110107
Magebabies will defend this.

>>55110107

So thry just pissy that other kids get something cool to play with.

Lel pathetic

>>55110280

It's pitiful how insecure they are despite being the most broken and powerful gameline.

Reminds me of D&D Wizard players screeching like a little bitch whenever a fighter gets something remotely decent.

Meh, a Forces mage can easily blot out the light from the sun with a trivial competency of the Arcanum.

Heck, he can bend light to make shadow animals on the sun and really freak people out it he was a real bastard.

>>55110274
This is proof that Dave's favorite Arcanum is Fate

>>55110274
woo cause enviromental tilts and breaking points in a max campus size area...

Fuck me, unless those tilts are instant death then its not OP at all

>>55110494
Sorry but spontaneously causing a solar eclipse is fucked

Oh man fuck me, why didn't I think of just using 4chanx and recursive hiding sooner, makes the threads much more tolerable, if pretty dead

>>55110518
Why exactly? You realise that the area of "solar eclipse" would only be a campus sized area, once outside that area no solar eclipse right?

And who cares, apart from sleepers goign "ooooo ahhhh, and getting a breaking point, it being dark for abit, how is it actually fucked when you are considering a master of fate is doing it?

As far as what masters can do, its pretty tame.

>>55110623
Bullshit. Solar eclipses don't just happen. Two celestial bodies need to me in perfect unison for it to happen.

It's shit like this that causes people to hate anythingMage

>>55110650
People dont just get up and fly but cos magic you cock sucker.

Solar eclipses dont just happen, but again MAGIC you stupid vampfag.

Mages use magic that causes effects that "dont just happen" deal with it.

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Yes. Whine. Whine about Mage Supremacy. Surely it will make things so much better.

>>55110650
Why are you so butt hurt about what mages can do?

Just because your fav splat cant?

>>55110392
Dave didn't write the section of Fate I think.

Why give vampires access to blood magic if thye can't use it to even things out with mages?

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>>55110891
>Hedge magic > Blood magic > True magic(k)

>>55110849
Even in OWoD this was the case

Hedge magic < Blood magic < True magic(k)

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Old WW will never get old

>>55110915
Sorry, I fucked up. Had to fix it. OCD. >>55110917

Might as well mention that mortal sorcery can actually match blood magic on occasion.

>>55110942
You got it backwards mate.

Sorcery (which is the basis for blood magic) can easily out perform blood magic. They can do insane shit with it.

>>55110917
What about Changeling magic?

>>55110955
High level sorcery hasn't really done anything comparable to high level blood magic.

>>55110849
Yeh blood magic was a mistake and should have been removed.

But again why does it have to be the same as awakened supernal magic?

Its widely agreed that crossovers are the problem, just dont fucking have a awakened mage in a vamp game, use a hunter witch or other shit, and let your vampires feel like fucking top dogs.

Stop fucking complaining about something that was never intended (balance across splats)

I cant wait to see what shit the contagion chronciles is, because no matter what they do, some people are going to lose their shit.

>>55111009
>>55110955
>>55110917
daily reminder to back your claims with evidence

>>55111017
>blood magic was a mistake

How so? Folklore depicted vampires as practitioners of black magic. Dracula was a potent sorcerer in Bram Stoker's tale. One of the ten apprentices of the Devil.

I'm not saying he would win against, say, Merlin or King Solomon, but vampires being lacking in the arcane is a very modern mistake.

>>55111048
Are you seriously demanding proof that Spheres > Thaumaturgy > Sorcery ?

These threads since mid-January have been your 'proof'.

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>>55111009
The most high level thing that high level blood magic has done is curse an entire clan.

That's shit compared to being able to shapeshift into a dragon. Multiple people into a dragon.

>>55111083
>The most high level thing that high level blood magic has done is curse an entire clan.

Or ward the European side of Russia(Thaum 9)
Or mentally dominating the entire planet(Thaum 10)

>>55111083
Koldunic Sorcery can turn the Koldun into a dragon.

>>55111055
Because people expect it to be as powerful as supernal magic and whine like bitches when it isnt.

>>55110941
What is this from ?

>>55111073
More about claims that human sorcery is more powerful than blood magic
Sphere magic is unadulterated bullshit and discussing it is pointless

>>55111094
All of which took several hundred vampires.
A single nuclear bomb is made by a technocratic sorcerer.

>>55111105
That's spirit magic. That's more comparable to Gifts.

>>55111125
>That's spirit magic.

It still demands blood. It's also considered blood magic nonetheless.

>>55111140
Potence would be considered blood magic by that logic...

>>55111125
>All of which took several hundred vampires.
I don't recall Baba Yaga needed anyone but herself when warding Russia.

You got me at Thaum 10, Tremere enacted a ritual for that.

>>55111110
Aberrant

>>55111124
>Sphere magic is unadulterated bullshit and discussing it is pointless

...are you sure you're not just a sore ass?

>>55111157
That never made sense actually in the metaplot, since all it would take is a wizard to tear it down.

Seriously, a single vampire with counter thaumaturgy could have taken it down.

>>55111203
>metaplot
>sense

lol

>>55110028
But that's the exact opposite of what was said and what's happened

>>55111176
real mature

>>55110941
I'm pumped for 2e but it's gonna be like late late 2018 at the earliest.

>>55111176
Cool it with the hostility

>>55110554
It is a bit depressing to hide one post and then see a good quarter of the thread suddenly vanish though.

We should all just migrate back to the OPP forums

>>55111353
Never been, I started posting in these threads back when they were good because I was a regular on 4chan that had played a few games of Hunter and played VtMb and wanted to learn more about WoD.

Why I'm still here is a mystery.

>>55110749

Just as bad as cock sucking each other about Mage.

Why don't we ban Mage topics entirely?

>>55111458
ban is space 3, do you have than?

>>55111458
Just do >>55110554

>>55111514

Muggle please, I am an Archmage!

A self-loathing Archmage. Therefore it is done - out of spite!

>>55111353
Then you'd have two options:
- walk on eggshells
- promptly get banned and bounce back here

Can True Fae fall in love?

If so, how fucked would the human be?

>>55111920
1. Or something like it, yeah, but expect it to be described with dehumanizing caveats about how alien they are. True Fae are probably just really powerful changelings but that reveal gets saved for late in the game.

2. Wyld Hunt primary target level fucked.

>>55111920
If one of their Titles was based around 'true love', then it would be the absolute best partner one could ask for.

Not that it wouldn't be a weird relationship.

>>55111920
It's....complicated
Assuming I'm remembering all my fluff right and not mixing it up with exalted fey, they don't actually really feel any emotions. They imitate them well enough, usually with sadistic bents or just gross extremes and so on, but they don't think or experience things in the same way any human does.

>>55112223
I believe they experience things based on what they agree on.

>>55111851
Some of us don't have Tourette's and can act right.

>>55113007
I don't think people with Tourette's do their *thing* over the keyboard, Anon.

SHIT BALLS

>>55113083
I didn't think think so either. But if you look at these threads, there is definitely some sort of lack of self control.

>>55113110
Yeah, people always responding to obvious bait.

>>55113007
then go there and check your privilege

Don't lie to yourselves

You know you come here to be entertained

>>55113358
What's supposed to be the benefit of coming to this thread anyway?

Even if you just wanted to talk about mage supremacy, OP forums at least have the benefit of talking with the real DaveB.

Plus they can actually talk about a topic for more than a post without the whole thing devolving into discussing how an archmage could kill whatever is the subject.

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>>55113409
I will admit that seeing people effectively screaming at a brick wall is, in a way, "entertaining". Nobody learns here, and the Magefags know it.

>>55113418
>OP forums at least have the benefit of talking with the real DaveB.

And this place doesn't? I guarantee you Dave is one of the shitposters here.

>>55113409
Is... this supposed to be entertaining?

Maybe the first time. But now it is like teen titans go on reruns.

>>55113447
Keep telling yourself that.

>>55113452
>It is another episode where they argue about kinetic shield

>>55113452
It's entertaining because the bait is always taken. It's like people automatically forget everything the next day.

>>55113452
>>55113499
Pretty sure it's because it's just the same people here every day. 60% shitposters, 35% people upset at shitposters taking the bait, 5% random person stumbling in trying to have reasonable discussion and then leaving when they see the state of this general.

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Some recent DaveB Wisdom concerning mages and vampiresl

>>55113499
This thread is like Groundhog Day, with so many poor saps being trolled by Bill Murrays. But of course Bill was trapped too.

>>55113560
What are the powers they get? I thought Tamers of Blood weren't expanded upon yet. Are they in Left-Hand Path?

>>55113560
Aren't the 'tamers of blood' left handed and/or branded as left handed by any sensible council?

>>55113608
>>55113609

The Tamers of Blood are not Left-Handed, but they definitely skirt the line.

They have not received a full write-up, but are referenced in a few placed.

Check out Left-Handed Path, p. 27.

>>55113560

Attainments that fuck with vampires should make Tamers of Blood heroes, not left-handed.

>>55113668
"Left-Handed" isn't as clear a distinction as some would have you believe. Imagine it as a political compass with the axes being "Soul Manipulation <---> No Soul Manipulation" and "Mostly Nice <---> Kind of Mean."

Then imagine every Consilium drawing a line on that compass with forbidden Legacies on one side and allowed Legacies on the other. A lot of those lines are going to be mostly similar. Some are going to be weird. Some will have strange exceptions. The overall trend may not be what you'd expect.

Probably a lot of agreement on the Tremere, but try asking about the Daksha or the Fangs of Mara.

>>55113738
Legacies rewrite the student's soul. They're *all* soul manipulation.

>>55113560
Thank God he finally changed that God awful profile pic

>>55113761
They fuck with the 'soul container' or the mages Gnosis and it makes the soul behave a certain way i.e. attainments.

>>55113775
Nope. It's still the same on the OPP forums.

>>55113775
Now that Joss Whedon's wife has denounced him, a picture from his show might no longer be welcome on the boards where he uses an avatar.

>>55108491
Alex Jones is just amazing, isn't he?

>>55113560
Innuendo aside, why would a legacy want to strong arm vampires? It seems really specific.

>>55113840

The implied capabilities of the Tamers of Blood are far broader in scope and philosophy than just screwing with vampires.

However, fucking with leeches is a virtue in itself and certainly productive and entertaining.

>>55113840
>Not stealing magic blood.
Why even steal blood?

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>>55113840
BECAUSE VAMPIRES ARE VERMIN AND NEED TO BE DESTROYED

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Here's the short Tamers of Blood paragraph from Left-Handed Path.

>>55113889
>>55113873
>>55113688
>It is another 'vampires should be exterminated' episode

>>55111981
>True Fae are probably just really powerful changelings but that reveal gets saved for late in the game.
The first ones had to come from somewhere. Either they existed as some kind of crazy spirit like things, or they were made by the God-Machine in an experiment gone terribly wrong that lashed out against it in form and function

>>55113889

>Easy there Mr. Obrimos, you don't want to short circuit the laptop again and set the couch on fire.

>>55113903
>It is another 'vampires should be exterminated' episode

>It's never not the right time for vampire genocide

>>55113910
Maybe the pre-existing thing is Arcadia, not the True Fae.

>>55113949
And the first mortals or even animals to accidentally wander in became altered to that degree? I can believe it.

>>55113954
There's a short story about how after the Devil repents and returns to Heaven, the first man damned afterwards becomes the new Devil.

An Archmage did it

>>55113949
>>55113954
With some of the information from... equinox road was it? This is plausible.

When you consider that True Fae are less individuals, and more awakened stories that take forms for their narrative, there never has to be an original true fae. Arcadia came first, gave birth to the hedge at the border, and the True Fae are just part of the whole kit and caboodle.

At that point, Arcadia could be another God-Machine as well. Just one that exists outside of our dimension. Consider that Arcadia doesn't follow the laws on time and location. You can leave arcadia before you entered, and all that. Very God-Machine like properties (or the God-machine has Arcadia like properties, depending how you want to look at it)

>>55114015
The Wyrd/Arcadia isn't really an entity more so than living narrative. It isn't classified as a ranked 'anything'. It's closer to a force of nature.

>>55114015
They have absolutely nothing in common. Do not compare the glorious God Machine to that realm of gay rape and fairy stupidity.

How would you translate/modify a custom legacy across editions?

Because I got one I stumbled across and adore.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/981289-2e-legacy-thaumatech-engineers

But it's 2e, we're stuck in a 1e game because it's a crossover and not all the splats are out yet, and I have no idea how to translate and balance this shit. Is there a guide to this shit I can use?

>>55114072
The God-Machine is also not an entity, and has no rank.

It is an elaborate connection of many working parts.

That's why I found the comparison plausible. Arcadia may not seem to have an agenda, but then again if we see the True Fae as rising up from Arcadia itself, as a process, like Angels, then don't the actions and agendas of the True Fae start to look like an agenda of Arcadia itself?

It is a weird one (wyrd even), but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

>>55114114
You're playing a crossover game w/ a mage and you're worried about 'balance'?

Okay.

>>55114114
Yeah anon, >>55114140 has it about right. Good luck making anything in a crossover balanced, let alone one with mage involved.

>>55113541

This is me.

How would an Archmage go about making a second moon? Would he also need to make another moon spirit in the process?

>>55114114
>How would you translate/modify a custom legacy across editions?
I hate to say this, because I know how much work it is, but the only way is case by case.

>>55114180
>Subtle attempt at starting archmage wank
>This is bait
Anything that has a large enough impact on reality, will create an imprint in the shadow, and eventually have a spirit represent it. You don't need to give it a spirit.

>>55114140
>>55114158

It's less crossover and more that there's a couple of separate games that take place in the same city, and the GMs involved want consistency.

I say crossover because the other times I asked for help on 1e stuff elsewhere the only advice I got was 'play 2e, faggot'. And when I said that my group wasn't switching I got 'find a better group'.

>>55114181

Goddamnit. I was afraid that might be the case. I suck at making/changing mechanics, and nobody I know is both able and willing to help.

>>55114243
Both editions have guidelines for making new Legacies. Look at the 1e guidelines and try to capture the most important stuff about the 2e Legacy in the 1e system. You'll have fewer Attainments (3 vs. 5).

Alternately, post the Legacy or Legacies you want to convert in this general and we'll see what we can do with them.

>>55114243
Any reason why your group is still in 1e?

>>55114128
Would 'magic' itself have a rank? I mean, the Corpus Author took that motto "Magic is alive!" and made it an actuality.

>>55114297
It is a rank 1 spirit.

But naw. I mean, the supernal is sort of similar isn't it? It isn't an entity. But because of the actors working within it, because it contains intelligences, it acts with agency. Because the Exarchs are not 'people' anymore, but concepts imprinted into the logos of the Supernal, they are a lot like true fae for the fallen world itself.

>>55114180

Matter, Space, Fate, Time, Spirit, Forces could all potentially do it with varying degrees of difficulty.

For sake of argument let's say he wants to use Spirit to give luna a twin sister 'rhea'.

He'd need quintessence that symbolizes the birth of luna. Perhaps the still molten fragment from the moment of her birth when the proto-planet Rhea smashed into earth.

Well first he'd have to travel back in time before the formation of the earth and survive in those conditions. This is doable for an archmage even without the use of imperial practices so no problem there beside mastering the magic to do such a thing.

Skipping past the time and effort and the archmage now has the quitessence he needs and is there watching the fireworks. Using transfiguration he can split the spirit of the embryonic luna in the shadow into twin courts and with his skill with Time magic he can see that slowly over the course of the decades of lunar aggregation they'll drive the formation of two satellites around earth.

Happy the mage prepares to return to the present only to get deleted from reality for violating the Pax.

gg no re

>>55114325
Would it not be easier to compare the Gentry to Archmages? Both are trying to reach a higher state of being.

Supernal Ascendance / Wyrd Transcendence

I'm not sure what the latter entails.

>>55114281

Because the other guys are 1e, and this way everyone has the same rule base.

So like, if someone made a custom magic item or something there's one universal stat block for when/if it's relevant.

>>55114274

Where are the guidelines for making a new one? Even better if you know the page of which book, I just don't remember seeing it.

I do however remember seeing that it looked like there were references in 1e to potential 'fourth' attanments that weren't elaborated on since the secrets were too deep. Just fluff?

As for the legacy, I posted a link to it in my first post here >>55114114

>>55114382
I think he's speaking in bureaucratic terms.

>>55114382
Are The Gentry trying to ascend? They are already gods in their own.

I guess there is a thing about that huh. But it seems less like a goal, and more like a thing that happens.

Remember that if True Fae 'care' too much about something, they usually get banished. Sort of puts a cap on long term aspirations.

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So which werewolf is more fun? Apocalypse or Forsaken?

Noob question, sorry.

How far reaching is the Supernal? If some Archmage decided to mess with the concept of light, would it affect the entire universe?

>>55114503
It would.
Then it wouldn't, because the Pax.
Because like everything Archmage it doesn't matter.

>>55114503
If an Archmage managed to stick his dick into the Platonic Form of light, then the concept of light throughout the universe would be altered.

Until the Exarch of Forces realised exactly what he was doing, and annihilated his ass.

>>55114517
Why haven't anyone just go back in time and prevent the Exarchs from ascending?

>>55114560
Archmages and Ascended mages can't be affected by temporal shenanigans.

Atlantis never even happened, because it never was. Until it was. And then wasn't. And then wasn't again. Because magic.

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I got bored that there wasn't a way to more easily enter the Astral written up for 2e, even though that should be Mind's entire jam.
So I made one.

Then added in some Conjunctive and Reach options to force a Sleeper's mind's into the Astral.

Why?
Because why the fuck not?

>>55114744
Hmmm. That should be "need not pass the Resolve + Composure test"... Oh well.

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>>55114464

Both? Both.

I am a dyed in the wool Apocalypse fan since '98 but I still think Forsaken is fun just focused differently. They seem similar but have very different tonality and texture to them.

Mechanically though? Hard to argue against Forsaken though I hate the game-y feeling time limit on Gauru and the constant berserker state. Give me back my Crinos drum circles damn you!

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Newfag here. For VtR, how many dots in a Discipline can you buy at chargen? Is it capped at all?

>>55114464
Foreskin > Cocklips, but bear in mind that my opinion is driven by a preference for small personal stories over big worldwide metaplots.

>>55114744
Shouldn't it also require Death, if you're explicitly interacting with the connection between mind and soul?

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>>55114932
You can buy up to 3 in character creation, unless creating a more advanced vampire. It's uncapped.

>>55114799
I agree, but Death Rage feels like a good idea that ends up a mechanical mess.

>>55114799
I like limited Gauru, makes it more like a berserk rage and less like a Transformer mode.

>>55115041

>small personal stories over big worldwide metaplots.

I've never played a game of Apocalypse that wasn't that.

>>55115165
I agree.

If you want to go battle mode, there are two other Near-war forms that are both amazing at killing stuff dead.

War Form should be the 'okay this is the last resort' of it. Limited, amazing while it lasts, but dangerous the whole time.

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>>55115165

You had Rage for that, which gets rolled a frequently and always puts you at risk of frenzy. Being in combat doubled down on that aspect because boy do people like to spend Rage like its candy.

>>55115192

If something is trying to kill you there are no 'last resorts'. You hit full throttle or you die.

>>55115196
>Always

If you don't have 4+ rage you are never at risk when you roll it. It's one of the many rules in WtA that doesn't do what it set out to do.

>>55115088
Not at all, what you're messing with is the connection between Mind and Soul, not the Soul itself.

>>55115212

>not buying Rage at chargen when its most cost efficient

What are you, a pussy?

>>55115212

Keeping your Rage low is a good way to get raped to death when another changer comes barreling at you.

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>>55115150

Already had a Deathrage equivalent with woofs risking Frenzy/Fox Frenzy/Thrall of the Wyrm. If anything its more unpredictable in practice and has no delay time giving you breathing room or shared 'don't pvp your bro' mechanics that also feel really game-y.

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>>55115231
>Ever being at risk of frenzy
What are you, an idiot?

>>55115242

Not really. 3 rage is as much as you are going to be able to use per turn anyway and you can regenerate 2-3 rage on the second turn of combat.

If you need to go more then two rounds then it's been more then 7 hours of game time and you can just call it a night without combat being resolved, come back tomorrow and get the ST to narrate how the rest went down.

>>55115263
>Don't PVP

You don't attack werewolves when in death rage. You can't use it to fight Pure for that reason, absurdly enough.

>>55115279
>If you need to go more then two rounds then it's been more then 7 hours of game time and you can just call it a night without combat being resolved, come back tomorrow and get the ST to narrate how the rest went down.

Weirdly, we never had this problem. Combat was clunky, yeah, but we never struggled this much with it.

>>55115287
Because your wolf-spirit bodies still think they're on the same side of the superclaimed spirit war.

>>55108491
>>55113835
Imagine being able to put 'professional lunatic' on your tax returns. You think his Super Male Vitality is an imbued item?

>>55115279

This woman is weirding me out.

I mean, slutty geek chick, whatever. I googled her to see if she was the same person I remember from a different cosplay set.

But, you see, for some reason she gets more attractive the longer I stare at her. Which is weird, but oddly compelling as plot hook in a WoD thread. Seriously, this is creepy as shit. She was 'alright' and now I'm resisting the urge to start e-stalking her or something.

>>55109829
I'm not sure. I mean, that ritual is pretty disgusting, and the whole "Ghosts guard the wyrms nest" merit is also bad, but the rest seems pretty normal.

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>>55115385
I'm pretty sure she is True Fae. Stay away man. I didn't and there is no saving me now.

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>>55115385
God fucking damnit. Now I can see it too.

>>55115424

>True Fae

Oh thank god. I thought it was something I'd regret fucking.

>>55115437

I know, right? What the hell.

>>55114414
1e Legacy guidelines: MtAw Core 1e, pp. 366-7.

Related Legacies (for comparison, or if making one is too much work, use one of these instead):

Forge Masters: Legacies: The Ancient, pp. 72-81.
Lords of the Inanimate: The Silver Ladder, pp. 164-7.
Transhuman Engineers: Legacies: The Sublime, pp. 118-27.

Converting the Legacy: Nearly all of this can be carried straight across, although clockwork in the Oblations doesn't fit with the cutting-edge theme. The crudest port is to keep Attainments 2/3/4 as Attainments 1/2/3 respectively, but think about whether that preserves what you like about the Legacy and adjust as necessary. There's no Reach in 1e, so anything to do with Reach will have to be changed. Read through the printed spell effects in 1e to find the equivalents of the 2e effects listed in these Attainments (for example, Wonderful Machine corresponds to Jury-Rig).

>>55114181
It's actually super easy, you've just going to get into the swing of it, and it takes a little time.

Anyone got any more Legacies for the Legacyfag to update? I could try and devolve that Legacy into 1e form... I guess. It just seems wrong to do so.

>>55115437
>>55115450
>>55115385

Hasn't hit for me yet, she still looks ok. I must have indomitable or something.

That being said, girl that goes from eh to alluring to obsession inducing the more you see her sounds like a great encounter for my Hunter party. Thanks anons.

It amazes me that more than forty people have posted in this dumpster fire of a thread.

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>>55115628

>>55115657
Eh, people flock to car crashes.

>>55115657

Well I can't exactly shitpost about mage supremacy in the Star Wars thread.

>>55115661
Today I learned that there's a galateid affected living in my building. Creepy little fuck.

Do Prometheans get something like the Ensorcelled? Someone who's stuck on first/second stage disquiet or something, but can't build or decrease it?

What 'supernatural' fighting merits and styles are there? Like, werewolves have essence blocker and that 1e gauru rip and tear style. There's two varieties of Adamant Hand. I seem to remember some sort of anti ghost style in 1e. That sort of thing - styles/merits that directly affect the supernatural aspects of an opponent or are supernatural.

>>55115755
Naw, they just manage it one day at a time.

You can get someone who is stuck, but won't move forward. But you always need to be afraid if you screw up, they are going to jump to the next stage and you'll wake up in their sex dungeon.

Prometheans don't get to have friends.

>>55115799
Disquietism helps. You could be his wingman as he obsesses over a string of other women. If you don't mind him being a serial killer. And he doesn't mind all of them being obsessed with YOU.

>>55115828
The good part about being a promethean is you can actually cut off your face so he can wear it to pick up.

>>55115661
Feel like that might not be malevolent enough, unless the promethean is deliberately using it to their advantage. Which seems hard as my understanding of Galateid disquiet seems to paint it that the people effected are unstable and obsessive, not really easy to manipulate.

>>55115911
No, it's cool. Qashmallim arrives, rocks fall, the situation is ruined and everyone dies. That's their prime purpose for their ST - smacking clever players promethean's around.

Or telling Amalgama where they live, I guess.

>>55112004
I assume another one of there titles would be based around huge...tracts of land.

>>55115911
Again, Disquietism. The effect can be manipulated and through it so can the people.

>>55114365
>Happy the mage prepares to return to the present only to get deleted from reality for violating the Pax.
So mages can't have fun and Archmages are forced to have even less fun.

good to know.

>>55115988
Altering reality can be done retrospectively, if you go into the supernal, burn a 2nd moon into it and come back to the fallen world, that moon can have been there since day 1.

Changing things in the supernal is like that,
>By entering the Supernal and changing the >truths there using Imperium Rites, archmages >alter the entire Fallen World toward matching >their personal vision for the universe.

This can be retroapplied. There will always have been 2 moons.

>>55116047
>There will always have been 2 moons.
So Father Wolf would have two wives and there would be two types of Woof (Lunes and Rheans) if you did that?

>>55116047
and before somebody says "but mah pax" its alreay established that christianity is a aponia created by a archmage who accidently replaced the original mithrian religion, he has said he will fix it but hasnt been deleted from reality for violating the pax yet..

>>55116073
No, because again, Pax, and deleted mage.

No one would let them do that.

>>55116073
At that point its up to you what the fuck that means desu

>>55116080
Yeah, changing a sleeper religion is a little different than creating an additional celestial body that directly influences the very being of the planet.

>>55116087
No, its pretty hard to delete a archmage, you just either get them to undo what they did or you change it back yourself. Its a cold fucking war, you need the fallen world to meet your vision for it so you can ascend, so you alter it to suit your vision, try to ascend, if you succeed you dont give a fuck, and it can all get deleted etc. If you fail, then your fucked anyways.

See Merlin..

>>55116087
Drat, drat and double drat!

>>55115957
Not terribly familiar with Promethean. Is Disquietism safe and easy or is it risky with a decent chance of backfire? And how do the Qashmallim from >>55115923 factor into it?

I might just stat up a custom monster with this effect instead if it's too fucky for a one-off villain.

>>55116087
"Ok davidmage, you have had your fun with two moons, you either ascend now or change it back. Its my turn with to try with no vampires."

>>55116080
Creating another major incarna is a bit more screwy than swapping around which religion is making waves in the astral

>>55116139
Why? Who is going to care? Another Am whose vision doesnt include it, how likely is that? Other incarna will always have thought it existed, so they dont get a say..

>>55116126
Disquiet is uncontrolled (unless you are in a refinement that is trying to control it. In which case you can up and lower how much you are putting off)

Pretty much, people who are around you for long periods of time, roll for disquiet. Their uncanny valley sense goes off and there is a chance they will get the first stage just from that.

If they see you use a power, in which case your disfigurements show (they see what your corpse body looks like), then they also have a chance of getting it.

From there, it can go up in level. If you leave and don't interact with them, it will go away with time.

It starts at 'I sort of dislike you, don't know why' and usually ends in 'I'm either going to kill you, or make your life hell'.

Qash are angels from the Principle. They factor into things however the Principle decides. That is to say, if the Principle decides a Promethean is doing too much, too little, is too slow, too fast, isn't showing the right caloric intake for a Tuesday, whatever. The Principle may send a Qash to put them on the right track. Which could just be friendly advice from a friendly face, or a terrifying hellscape creature that causes a storm that will rip apart a whole city block.

Does anyone have an idea how many archmages there are, roughly?

Because I know there's supposed to be at least ten (Exarchs) and it's implied that there's magi who aren't aligned with them, but not numerous enough to just wipe them out and/or overpower them.

Given how hard it is to ascend and the vested desire amongst at least some Archmagi to prevent anyone else from getting up there, there'd have to be relatively few.

But is there something resembling a headcount? Even as vague as 'less than a hundred'.

And how hard is it to kill them anyway, given how some dude just wrote that off as something other archmagi wouldn't/couldn't do.

Asking for a friend.

The point is you obey the pax until you dont need too. To ascend you need to change the fallen to your vision, which is probably going to break the pax, at this point you dont care about the fucking pax.

Plus the scale of punishments for breaking the pax is not: nothing to deletion, there will be other things well before that, like told to fix it, or finding somebody else quintessence or something, saying every breach of the pax results in deletion is fucking stupid.

>>55116126
Disquietism isn't guaranteed to work, but if you build a character expressly for it and they pattern their habits around making it optimal, it's not unreasonable for them to consistently lean on it.

>>55116170
However many you need for your story. Which probably should be between 0 and 1

>>55116080
He hasn't been deleted because he already Ascended from the act, I believe. He's effectively safe from the Pax at this point.

>>55116175
It isn't that everything leads to deletion.

It is that every example in here of an archmage doing something is so over the top that it would probably lead to someone offing the archmage.

A real archmage wouldn't be as stupid.

>>55116169
You're forgetting the most important Alembic, Redirect. You can make somebody else cause your Disquiet instead of you.

>>55116170
Canonically, there are just under a hundred Archmages.

Anywhere from 85 to 95 probably.

>>55116170
Probably only a couple dozen at any one time.
Archmages are the single rarest playable characters in the entirely of CofD.

Also to kill one?
You need to be an Archmage, or a Rank 6+ entity which is a decent bit stronger than them.
A Rank 6-7 entity might give a newly entitled Archmage some trouble, but only the highest Rank of entities would give an experienced Archmage trouble.

They can at any point just go "nah, fuck this", and leave the world for the safety of their Golden Road.

>>55116087
In a cold war you dont kill enemy spies. You keep them and maybe trade them for you. If you go about killing them all, then your spies will get killed too.

The ascension war is a cold war, you dont have a cold war if every time somebody breaks the pax you end them. What happens when you need to break the pax to ascend then? Oh didnt think of that did you?

No far better to punish people for it but not that harshly so that when you need to break the pax you wont be fucking deleted huh?

What your describing isnt a fucking cold war scenario.

>>55116212
>Canonically, there are just under a hundred Archmages.
You got me a quote for that?
That's a ludicrously large number, considering how powerful they are.

>>55116170
Imperial Mysteries says there are nearly a hundred living Archmages running around.

Compared to other 6+ entities, they are moderately populated.

>>55116223
Because the idea of a 'cold war' of guys that can create a second moon, is dumb.

Sorry. The cold war metaphor doesn't work when you are punishing people not for killing you, but for breaking reality.

But whatever, Imperial Mysteries is dumb cover to cover. This coming from a mage fan.

>>55116242
No its just you that is dumb.

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>>55116225

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>>55105433

>>55116225
You have to remember that Archmages have the luxury to increase in power, while other 6+ entities are set in stone.

There may be nearly a hundred Seekers, but there's probably only a dozen powerful enough to tackle, say, Luna or the God-Machine. They vary on the hierarchy.

>>55116256
So about 50 Archmages who matter to the game, and 40'ish loners who don't matter until they're about to blow up the universe.

Neat.

>>55116242
When you get an entire Entente who says that a second moon is useful to their cause but that it wont be perm (because it never has to be) then why would you delete archmasters over it.

Your thinking like having a second moon is permanent or something, or that non Archmasters will even know that for a brief time, one reality had 2 moons.

Stop being so dumb, start thinking like a archmage.

>>55116279
That's fair, for some reason when I think of Archmasters, I think of them as being rather top heavy in terms of power.

Rather than there being a very significant proportion who haven't even gotten to 8 dots yet.

>>55116253
Whatever. Enjoy your pointless conversations about NPCs that never accomplish anything of worth.

>>55116291
They have though, you just never know about it because you are a fucking mongo sleeper.

Up until yesterday the sky was yellow.

>>55116214
Are Archmages rarer than Mummies?

>B-B-BUT THE PAX

The number one excuse Archmage-hating faggots will bring up.

>>55116326
probably having never even read anything about it.

>>55116319
Yes?

Breaking the Pax gives the Exarchs free reign to send hordes of Ochemata into your Golden Road to dog-pile your ass, and drag you into the Supernal to erase you from existence.

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When will you idiots learn that Archmages just don't give a fuck.

>>55116319
Yes. There are plenty of mummies. They just often aren't awake or powerful at the time.

The judges made quite a few of them.

>>55116169
>>55116177
Thanks for the info guys, although I'll probably just stat up a custom monster with the effect of "becomes more and more attractive the longer you're around it" rather than fanangle around with disquiet rules for what's probably gonna be a one-off villain. Though I'll keep Promethean in mind for other possible antagonists.

>>55116290
Archmages are top heavy, by a huge fucking margin. The Imperial Practices can accomplish literally *anything* given the prerequisites.

I'd say they're the most powerful denizens of CofD if you consider that. Just not all of them will reach that potential.

>>55116169
>>Qash are angels from the Principle. They factor into things however the Principle decides. That is to say, if the Principle decides a Promethean is doing too much, too little, is too slow, too fast, isn't showing the right caloric intake for a Tuesday, whatever. The Principle may send a Qash to put them on the right track. Which could just be friendly advice from a friendly face, or a terrifying hellscape creature that causes a storm that will rip apart a whole city block

Unless you're that creepy promethean who decided that the Pilgrimmage was a lie, gave up and lives in a mansion, luring passersby to make them into Centimani too. I wonder if a Qashmal accidentally appears to an Alchemist, ever? "Oh, I'm sorry. You've got his liver, I normally home in on that. I'll be on my way, then. Tata."

>>55116429
Yeah. Mortal remains might have good templates for dread powers that relate to that. There should be something in there resembling disquiet?

I can't remember off the top.

>>55116455
I think the Disquiet in Mortal Remains is more complete than anon is looking for.

>>55116438
Can they really do ANYTHING though?

>>55116438
I meant in terms of population density.
Like, for some reason I thought that there were more powerful Archmages than there were weaker ones.

>>55116446
I mean, I think one of the example Qash attacks a guy who is trying to be a hermit on a mountain top. So I think even the centimani thinking it is all a lie is going to have a bad time.

Now that I think about it, I dont know what makes daddy principle give up on someone. As written, eventually you should get a visit from some angels if you aren't on the right track. But of course how, why, and what, differs so much that it doesnt matter.

I had an angel once that was just a woman that walked last the PC wearing a necklace she would recognize so she would remember the main plot. That was it. Got off a bus, walked past, never seen again.

>>55116283
Well 50ish who like to hang out with other archmages and 40ish who may prefer to be by themselves or hang out with people who aren't archmages as case may be. I wonder how many archmages send down ochemata to live out self-insert fantasies in the world below.

>>55116494
With the right Arcana, yes.

>>55116494
Practice of Dominions at 9 dots allows them to manipulate any aspect of their Arcanum in any way they want, for the duration of the spell.

They could transform Fate into "the thing that ensure that all cute dogs find good homes", use Spirit to remake Luna into a spirit of sweaty jockstraps, or Time to transplant the Roman Empire into the future leaving nothing but a gap in time behind.

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>>55116494
Yes. That's the entire point of Imperial magic. The universe is their bitch, and they're fighting over who gets to fuck it the most.

>>55116487
I'm not really going for disquiet exactly, but I'm sure if worse comes to worse I can homebrew up a dread power. Hunter is the game about making up rules for enemies after all.

>>55116519
I think you mean Transfiguration.

>>55116496
I think it's more than Archmagi who pick stupidly difficult noumenon think that more power is the answer, and the ones who are clever ascend faster. While it's unlikely given the basic personality of an Archmage, you could ascend with 6 dots in an arcanum anyway if you picked a really easy Noumenon.

>>55116520
NO they are fighting to bring their vision to reality and then get the chance to ascend.

You have taped your favorite show and need to watch the entire thing to ascend but some asshole keeps copying over it, so you record it again, etc etc.

They all have different visions of reality so keep altering reality tosuit themselves but hamper others. Its a constant tit for tat.

I'm just disappointed we haven't seen more on the Final Attainment Ascension. Never run an Archmage game, but the idea of someone ORA ORA ORAing their way into Magician Heaven is pretty goddamned amazing.

>>55116540
That's a funny way of saying "I fucked the universe and it was great"

>>55116529
Ah yes. Yes I did.

>>55116546
Not anymore you don't. Effective retroactively from the beginning of time the practice of transfiguration is now the practice of dominions and the practice of dominions is the contract of fleeting summer

>>55116225
>That's a ludicrously large number, considering how powerful they are.
It really isn't, once you take into account that Archmages are unaging (in some weird way that I forget) and that they're fucking hard as shit to kill. That number has probably been building up for centuries on centuries.

>>55116568
And it includes the ones who have made themselves functionally incapable of ascending.

>>55116543
I didn't include any in my Legacy writeups, because you have to write your own.
Which should be a personal decision, and something that ties into the story.
Not some rote 'orthodox' path you discover that you just perform.

Essentially a Wave-Man might fjord the Demon-Wind back to its source.
A Forge Master might turn his pursuit of perfection onto his Soul, and create a Perfected Soul.
A Thrice-Great might find the hidden secret of his Legacy, complete the Celestial Ladder, and Ascend up it.
A Tamer of Fire might rampage his way into the Supernal, and burn himself into the tapestry of creation.
A Reality Stalker might find out how to create cracks, and then build one which is a Supernal Verge into Pandemonium.
One of the House of Ariadne might follow the String back unto its source, and then weave herself into it, weaving her way back to the supernal.
The Clavicularius might discover the Final Key which links the Demons of his mind with the Demons of Pandemonium, and loose them into that realm, freeing himself and allowing him to Ascend.
The Uncrowned Kings might refine and comprehend their own mind and soul so perfectly and purely, that they pass through their own soul, and find the path to the Supernal in their perfect self-understanding.

The reversal points optional rule for stats over 5 was pretty cool, wish it was in the 2e core or any splat that can get above 5 easily.

Its easy to port, should of just got a wider audience than in Imperial Mysteries.

>>55116586
Oh, I didn't mean from the fan update books. We don't even have 1e rules for it, let alone 2e. I meant from the original imperial mystery book, the fact that it got a paragraph followed by "get fucked" irked me.

>>55116576
You're thinking of Ascension.

>>55116568
Archmages don't age within their Golden Roads.

If a Seeker looks old, it means he/she has been around for a -long- while, enough to actually warrant their leave for the Fallen, and are probably the strongest of the bunch.

>>55116602
Imperial Mysteries really loved to bring up ideas and then dismiss them. Look at those agamas, grimoires teaching spells powered by a supernal god. Does that mean no Mana cost? Does that mean sleepers can cast them? Does it mean they ignore arcana requirements? Who knows.

>>55116623
Nah, if your noumenon becomes impossible you can sacrifice a dot of willpower and gnosis, reducing the max gnosis you can gain by 1. Have to do that often enough and you're basically screwed, potentially even losing access to the Imperial Mysteries. If you were very lucky and had a very good relationship with someone who had archmastery in death/prime/mind you could probably have it repaired, but you get the idea.

>>55116649
Oh, I thought you were somehow referring to the "acquire archmastery, disregard ascension" schtick from Masters of the Art.

>>55116657
Nah. I like that bit, and while there are some very vague aspects of it in Awakening it's probably good it's gone.

>>55116367
Holy shit, that's bad writing.

>>55116087
>His first attempt to change the nature of the
Shadow was a failure, undone by a Siddha under
the terms of the Pax Arcanum.

Theumiel wasnt deleted for changing the shadow realm, what makes you think somebody adding a 2nd moon would cause him to get deleted by the pax?

Fucking "cant do that cos pax" assholes can fuck off.

>>55116934
Get over it.

>>55116972
I don't think he has changed the shadow realm. He just wants to stitch a piece onto it.

>>55116993
"The Hugbox"

>>55116993
No he changed it and it got changed back. Now he's decided that altering laws is harder than just swapping them completely. And is off looking in the abyss for the right laws to replace the current ones.

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>>55117005
Oh, my bad. I thought he'd just decided to alter it and was trying to work around the Pax.

Archmasters are fuckin nuts.

Kadmon wants to replace all sleepers/mortals on Earth with his own home grown numortals.

Is it okay to appropriate things in play magic that you would otherwise have to buy with Experiences? Like robbing a vault for millions of dollars, brainwashing a realtor into "selling" you a really nice house, stealing sympathy and teleporting military grade weaponry right out of a fort, etc.

>>55117031
Kadmon's an intriguing character. I wish we had more info on him.

>>55117056
Hell yeah! Take it if you can get it. It won't have any "Sanctity of Merits" though.

>>55117056
Well, yeah. Why wouldn't it be?

Plus, those things don't cost merits. Just cash.
Sure you get acquire them with Resources.
But that doesn't mean that's the only way you can get them.

>>55117056
Short answer: ST's approval.
Long answer: Yes and no. You've got millions of dollars, sure, but you're going to spend XP to keep it, representing your hard earned laundering of the cash and investments into making it a permanent thing, otherwise you've just gotten like 200 "cash" equipment items. Brainwashing that realtor, sure, but xp to represent the fact that you put in the time to 'clear' it with everyone - brainwashed the judge, the employers, the previous owners. Otherwise I'd make you have to spend time dealing with the legal bullshit on the regular. You get the idea. Single items like military grade weapons? Sure! No issue. Go nuts.

>>55117056
Dont remind me. One of the first things my pc's did when they got portals was break into army bases and steal military grade weapons.

ugg. Portalling shaped charges all over the place became common. Hence why wards became really important really fast.

>>55117094
satchel charges not shaped.

>>55117094
I did a similar thing with Prime 3.
Turns out the Platonic form of a missile launcher isn't all that complex.

>>55116978
I am. Like everyone else I don't play mage.

Crazy Question time.

Derangement, mental problems, things like Phobias.... all things your character can have. You can even take ones out the gate to get bonus xp.

Would it be possible to do something LIKE multiple personality disorder doing this?

I don't know what the proper terms are for this, or if there's an equivalent. Basically it's not like there's another 'him' that sometimes takes the wheel, it's more like he's a pacifist. He dislikes hurting people, even in the context of say tackling someone in football.

But BOB is the pacifist. Bob is the one who has to roll resolve and or/composure to reset a broken bone on someone. But Los Tiburón, Shark of the land, is Luchadore extraordinaire, and regularly slams people through tables slaps bitches.

And basically the crazy comes from him not wanting people to know they're the same person, because as long as they don't know Los Tiburón ISN'T Bob, and Bob shouldn't be held accountable for his deeds. And I guess it wouldn't matter if they knew, so long as he remained convinced his secret was safe.

So like, he would be a vampire everyone 'knows' is a wimp, and definitely not that mysterious masked badass, no sir.

>>55117031
Mages are trying to understand the Mysteries and step by step insinuate themselves into the Supernal by understanding their own souls. Then a bunch of assholes comes along, burning their personalities (both, those parts of themselves they accept and the various Goetic demons representing their flaws) into the Supernal, their goals and flaws often contradicting each other and reality itself. In other words, they stormed the Realms Supernal before they were spiritually ready (what does that remind you?). What happens when a bunch of symbols contradicting each other try to have an effect on reality? And what happens when those spiritual flaws in the Supernal aggregate and try to do the same?

And pretty much any mage who knows anything about Cintamani can figure this out, if they really think about it or even care. That's why my character hates Archmasters and everything they represent. Archmastery isn't a solution. *It's the problem.*

Wait a fucking second, did they announce Mummy 2e yesterday? Sweet

>>55117375
>Archmastery isn't a solution. *It's the problem.*
Don't you mean Ascension?

>>55117879
Ascension isn't about archmastery?

>>55117979
You can ascend without ever being an Archmaster.

Both the Ascension Rite and the Legacy Ascension are possible without Archmastery. It's just the first is essentially a plot hook, and the latter requires Gnosis 10 and both unpopular, and not well known.

>>55117995
>the latter requires Gnosis 10 and both unpopular, and not well known.
The most natural way of Ascending (together with maybe the Wisdom Ascension) is the most unpopular/least known. But fucking the entire reality in the ass and creating Abyssal symbolism/Aponoia left and right is alright. That's the Awakened for you.

Also, I think that the Final Attainment only requires you to reach your fifth Legacy Attainment and going through a Mystery Play. You don't need higher Gnosis than 8/9 required by the 5th Attainment.

>>55118080
Nope.
The Final Attainment is the one you make at Gnosis 10, the 6th Attainment, the one you can't be taught.

Also you can ascend via an Arcanum, becoming one with it in the Supernal, rather than sticking your dick in the stuff that describes the world.

That being said, the universe as it currently exists has likely been defined by a hundred archmasters. Or perhaps it hasn't. Either way, refusing to alter the Fallen is pretty at odds with Ascension. What better way to fix/escape the prison of the Lie than to break it?

>>55117995
Or maintaining Wisdom 10. Which basically means fuck off to the woods for a few years.

>>55118126
Eh, I don't think that one's real. There's no reliable accounts of it, and maintaining Wisdom ten is a basic bitch Omen.

>>55118114
From the Legacies blog's comments by Dave:
The Fourth (now Fifth) was Gnosis 9 or 10, and duplicated a master-level spell. Attaining it makes you an “Exemplar,” but it’s rare to find anyone using the title.
The *Final* Attainment is something that legendarily happens to some Exemplars – they get caught up in a Mystery Play to do with reaching the peak of their Legacy, and some Ascend at the end of it.
Archmastery is not required to be an Exemplar. Just patience and success as a mage.

>>55118126
>>55118143
Having high Wisdom is basically about knowing yourself and what *kind* of Supernal Symbol you want to represent, as well as acting upon it so well, that the reality recognizes you as said symbol, thereby Ascending you. It's hard, but "fucking off into the woods" is counterproductive, the difficulty of the act is the point.

Unless you are a Thyrsus hippie. Than sure, you can become a symbol of fucking off into the woods.

>>55118143
Not even as an omen, it's just listed as one of the "non archmage" methods.
>>55118145
Can I have a link there?

>>55118188
Sure: http://theonyxpath.com/legacies/

By the way, they are all listed in the stickied thread on the Mage OPP forum.

>>55118212
Cheers. I stay away from the OPP forums.

>>55118145
... What he's saying there is flat up wrong according to his own book.
You reach your Fifth Attainment at Gnosis 8-9, not 9-10.

So I'm inclined to state that you can only reach that 'mystery play' attainment at Gnosis 10.

>>55118231
He's referring to the 'old' fourth-now-sixth attainment, I'm guessing. Typo and a bit of a brainfart.

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Does anyone have Libellus Sanguinis 1: Masters Of The State or at least information about the koldunic rituals? Thank you

>>55118080
>The most natural way of Ascending (together with maybe the Wisdom Ascension) is the most unpopular/least known. But fucking the entire reality in the ass and creating Abyssal symbolism/Aponoia left and right is alright. That's the Awakened for you
My God you mean to tell me a culture of mystery obsessives with power over reality might not be the nicest?

What's next, vampires not locking arms and singing kumbayah? What will the werewolves think at the next Pure cuddle party? This is a travesty and an outrage!

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>>55115424
>>55115279
You neckbeard virgins wouldn't know a hot woman if they fucked you on your bed. Your cosplay girl has no tits and a ass to small even for a irishman.

>>55116262
That has to be the most uncomfortable way to knee someone in the head I have ever seen.

>>55118678

I am capable of appreciating more than one body type, anon. She cute.

>>55115424
>>55115279

She cute too.

Many women are attractive, and I will not be shamed by your arbitrary standards.

You vapid, egotistical cunt.

>>55118516
I am far from being a mage fag, but he has a point.

>Imagining all the monsters with their arms locked singing "we are the world"

>>55118678
>excessive tattoos
>tiny tits
>part of her head shaved
I don't think you have any room to be calling anyone out on taste.

>>55116972
But... he wasn't allowed to do that because of Pax.

You literally just said that.

>>55119148
I think he means that people should stop using the Pax as an argument to make the things under it sound weaker than they are.

>>55119147
Also brown.

>>55119148
He wasnt allowed to do it, but he did it anyway and somebody undid it. He wasnt killed or fucked up by "the pax" police.

So you can do shit that breaks the pax, somebody will just come along and undo it if they need things back the way they were and you might get your wrists slapped.

>>55119239
Yeah.

So archmages still can't do anything because of the pax.

Even if they aren't killed, they are still ineffectual and pointless.

>>55119187
The point with the pax posting isn't to imply that archmages can't upset the status quo. It's that they have to be subtle and clever about it.

Half the narrative drama in an archmage game is learning how to circumvent the pax.

>>55104556
does some sort of monster manual exist for WoD?

>>55119253
If they were actually ineffectual and pointless there would be no Pax at all.

>>55119394
What, no that's dumb. The pax is what makes them pointless. Pay attention stupid.

>>55119458
What do you think the Pax is, exactly?

>>55119458
You can get alot past the pax easily, Want to cure 1 lone vampire? Probably ok. Want to end an entire clan and in return you give the vampire patron X might be doable. You cant say its pointless.

Look at merlin, the whole arthurian thing was his ascension bid, he did all that shit, ascended then the exarchs wiped it, wasnt pointless for merlin was it?

>>55119464

An arbitrary limit that makes archmages literally unable to cast spells, obvious.

>>55119496
You are wrong, go and read the fucking book.

>>55119375
There are a few books like that, usually hunter books.

Antagonists is a blue book that talks about and stats out a bunch of different bad things.

Hunter books, like Night Stalkers, Witch Finders, Mortal Remains, all include a nice amount of monster entries.

>>55119508
Why bother. Every example you guys give of an archmage doing a thing ends in 'but then it was undone because of the pax arcanum.'

>>55119508
I think he was joking, anon.

>>55119515
read most of them. No intersplat compendium besides Antagonists exist?