/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55094780

Ben Newmart art is always good for an OP.

It's a shame that so many WW fans are turned on by monster bestiality.

>>55094780

So, I am terrified they are gonna gimp changeling.

I know we haven't seen much for dream crafting or pact making but I'm scared changelings are going to end up with no progression besides "RAISE YOUR SPAT STAT" and "BUY MORE POWERS"

The old pact system had flaws(you got WAY too many freebies for one) but I like changelings sacking a piece of their free will in exchange for magical power.

If they gimp pact making hopefully they drop something in to fill some of that void.

>>55094964
I mean, they have pact making in 2e with demon, so we know they aren't afraid of it as a system. I would mostly hope they can pull the word count to fit a healthy pact system.

I had to kick several players from my game for trying to abuse creative thaum to make op bullshit

>>55095057

Define "op bullshit?"

Recall that Mage very openly and explicitly removed any artificial limiters on Arcana and Practices for purposes of crossover or "balance."

>>55095057
>op bullshit

I would like some examples

>>55094780
why are you such a fag, fagness.

>>55094891

If getting shagged by a Werewolf in Crenos form hasn't been a thought on your mind then what are you doing playing WoD at all? More importantly, why don't you want to be that werewolf?

>>55095215
>why are you such a fag, fagness.

Hey.., that's cis hetero alpha male Deep One!

>>55094780
>Thisismyfetish.png

>>55094891
You don't want a sweet dorky monster husbando that you can ride adventuring by day and then ride "to relieve stress" by night?

What are you gay or something?

>>55095297
>Thisismyfetish.png

>I hate those crazy cult bitches

>>55095346

It's not just the mostly furry bestiality, but also the vampire necrophilia that is so disturbing.

>Once you go mage, you never go back
>Supernal Sexual Supremacy

>>55095057
I had a reaction one step further.
I cancelled my game, being unable to stomach the kind of awful horseshit that the rules permit.

Examples:
Shielding against the SNF
Using Velocity Control to multiply the cosmic speed at which an object is travelling through the universe
Using Shielding against Matter to stop oxygen from oxygenating another's blood, causing them to rapidly asphyxiate.
Abusing Exceptional Luck to render the spellcasting system pointless.
Using Shifting Sands to redo entire scenes from the start, knowing full well what is going to happen, entirely killing all of the drama.
Never fucking listening when I clearly explain what Divination can and cannot tell you about the future, and attempting to use it as a "how do I solve this problem" spell.

So, what would Deep Ones be in the CofD?

>>55095386

SNF ?

>>55095408
Strong Nuclear Force.
The thing that keeps the nucleus of the atom together.

>>55095379
>but also the vampire necrophilia that is so disturbing.

They're intelligent CONSCIOUS corpses. They also don't rot and can actually have sexual intercourse.

Beastiality is worse.

>>55095057
Guess Kinetic Shield is still engendering salt. People need to relax. Players don't get to make up whatever shit they want in Creative Thaum and put it in play while the ST watches them destroy his campaign, tears silently streaming down his face. He can adjust it with costs and limits however he likes. Shit, just going by Alchemist's Touch, it could have plenty. At standard you only get immunity to bashing, then lethal reduced by Potency. +2 Reach to get immunity to lethal as well and agg reduced by Potency.

>>55095386
Why are you lying?

>>55095425

That's not really how Shielding works.

Mages can be powerful and obey the RAW. It seems it wasn't Mage the game that was the problem, but rather asshole players who hadn't read or understood the book.

>>55095510

Alternative the dm can say before the game starts:

A) guys dont try to break the game.
B) mage is gonna be a mother may i kind of game and i dont care what the rulebook or that edgelord dave says.
C) The following spells are banned.....

>>55095389
Cryptids caused by the god machine. Probably denizens of a pocket dimension/interstitial geography thing beneath the ocean.

Alternatively, changelings, or fish shifters.

Huh... Fish shifters deep ones. Not a bad idea.

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>shields self from gravity
>flies away

>>55095602
What does Dave say that you should ignore, and what spells would you ban?

>>55095635
>and what spells would you ban?
all of them, we're playing hunter instead now

>>55095426
>They're intelligent CONSCIOUS corpses.

If don't know if that makes the necrophilia any better.

I would certainly hope that even in the CofD, when the vampire's sexual partner realized all bodily fluids were blood (and their partner was dead), they would grab their clothes and run out screaming (if they weren't subject to rapey mind control powers).

Changeling sex doesn't seem as terrible as the furry werewolf and beast bestialty and vampire and promethean necrophilia.

I'm not sure about my feelings about Demon sex. It seems akin to masturbation with a robotic sex doll. Kinky and sad, but not biblical levels of crazy bad.

>>55095655
>we're playing hunter instead now

Definitely cannot have Awakened mages without wholesale nerfing or the Hunters are fucked.

>>55095682
who cares about the superhero splat we're playing hunter instead
let's go bag something big

>>55095662
Okay grandpa.

We will stay away from that naughty sex stuff until marriage. We promise.

>>55095662

>grab their clothes and run out screaming

Dude, I can't honestly say that if it happened tonight that it would be the weirdest sex I've had this week.

And it's a Sunday afternoon where I'm at.

That said, Vampires are at least generally human shaped. I'm not sure I could bang a werewolf chick. At least not in wolf form. They are still human at least sometimes.

>>55095662
>when the vampire's sexual partner realized all bodily fluids were blood
So no chances of getting pregnant?

Bonus. Will not run.

>>55095713
All can you say you love your girlfriend if you don't love her in ALL her forms?

>>55095532
No lie, this is the kind of shit people use, and I'm sick of it.
I guess I'm kinda at fault for mentioning such things to them, and they took that as carte blanche to do so.

>>55095592
Nah m8, DaveB popped up in the CofD Discord and confirmed that stuff like Shielding against Oxygen can be used to suffocate people to death.
Pissed me right off when I read it too.

>>55095777
>REEEEE MAGES TOO STRONG

>>55095777
Why are you still lying? Everything you're talking about is shit that's been proposed as being possible in this general, some of it very recently.

>>55095816
Being proposed as possible, asked if possible, or just brought up as shitposting.

>>55095759

You see, maybe I'm weird, but I see love and emotional closeness on a separate axis from physical attraction.

Every girl I've ever been involved with is basically just a close friend I also wanted to bang.

I like a lot of my guy friends as much, if not more. I just don't want to fuck them.

There's also people I hate and fear that I would smash raw given half a chance.

So the idea of dating a shapeshifter who can shift into a form I'm not attracted to doesn't seem weird to me. Her turning into a dog wouldn't bug me, I just have no interest in fucking a dog.

>>55095713
You're at least man enough for Dalu form, right?

>>55095816
Maybe they read these threads.

>>55095662
If you're a submissive necrophiliac, vampires are a very lucky break for you.

>>55095855
Buddy you better grow a pair and fuck that fucking dog.

>>55095816
Yeah, I know. I proposed most of it.
Then told it to my players.
They liked it.
And now I've sworn off Mage.

But I'll still write Legacies if you fags want them.

>>55095874
>Maybe they read these threads.
Or you're lying. I also doubt that Dave said that you could suffocate people with Matter Shielding, and if he did then you're probably misrepresenting what he said.

>>55095892
Sounds like you should have sworn off your players, if you aren't lying.

>>55095892
So I guess I only have myself to blame.
Still, only some of those problems are related to creative thaumaturgy.

You can't easily GM fiat Exceptional Luck and Shifting Sands away.
At least, not without losing all of the rulebook's integrity, given that those two are integral, important spells for their respective Arcanum.

>>55095896
He said it falls under the same situation as suffocating people with Ban, in that you talk with your GM about how fast they die.
Which honestly should be pretty damn fast, as they completely lose all access to oxygen.

>>55095913
Quite possibly. I have no faith in online games any more.
And it's hard as shit to find IRL players who either care enough, or have the right attitude.

>>55095379

>Once you go mage, you never go back

Maybe if you have a fetish for circlejerks.

Quick mage question (1e), Arcana determines how good you are within a sphere.

What's Gnosis the measure of? Power level?

>>55095271
I feel like both scenarios play out like Shaquille O'Neil shoving his dick in a red velvet cake.

>>55095933
>He said it falls under the same situation as suffocating people with Ban, in that you talk with your GM about how fast they die.
Easy solution, +2 Reach to use Shielding to actively affect non-harmful things instead of being a shield.

>>55095970
Yes. Base dicepool for casting is Gnosis + Arcanum rating.

>>55095987
Not a bad plan Stan

>>55094891
I'm kinda into in from the other way around. I wanna smooch girl monsters basically all the time. Would it be weird to put that down as an aspiration for my hunter?

>>55095914
>You can't easily GM fiat Exceptional Luck and Shifting Sands away.
You need Reach for both. To affect spellcasting rolls and go back prolonged periods, respectively. For an Apprentice of Fate, that's Gnosisx2 to a Paradox roll if they instant cast it. For a Disciple of Time that's one Reach per scene undone, Gnosisx1 if they just go back one scene using instant casting. The only way I could see these spells being real gamechangers for weaker Mages is if they ritually cast them, and ritually casting spells, or otherwise preparing for situations in advance, is meant to be a huge boon to Mages. And you could always do what I do when I have to, careless, overt manipulations of Time and Fate are illegal in the Consilium. I also picked up a cool concept from this one book about a time traveler, that the past does not want to be changed and that it'll fight whoever tries to change it every step of the way.

Acanthus players have accused me of persecuting them more than once.

>>55096111
Not at all. Though as the chronicle goes on it might get you beat up, depending on the theme.

These threads belong in /trash/ at this point

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>>55096111
In a lot of the organizations it might get you killed. In Ashwood Abbey it might get you looked at as a bore.

>>55096207

The invasion that would happen after the transference would at least be hilarious.

>>55096207
Have you seen some of the generals on /tg/? We are practically saints.

>>55096159
Abyssals or outsiders pissed at a mage messing with time too much are a fun story hook.

Didn't the summoners have the men in black? Style them like that. Guys in black who show up talking funny.

>>55096252
This is the only general I visit that is in a near perpetual state of inner flamewars, bating, and falseflagging. I'm not even sure what's causing it, other game with blatant power imbalances inside them don't get like this, nor games with long overdrawn content droughts either.

>>55096386
>I'm not even sure what's causing it

Old, old WoD in the 90s basically was a breeding ground for really intense fluff arguments and they started patterns and divisions that nothing will ever erase since they are now part of the culture.

>>55096159
All you need to instantly go back one scene, is 3 reach.
One for instant, one for scene-travel, one for scene duration.

For a Gnosis 1-2 Mage with Time 3, that's 2 Paradox dice. Changed to a chance die by a dedicated tool, and for which you need literally NO negative dice pool modifires.
So assuming Gnosis 1, Time 3, Dedicated Path Tool, that's 5 dice for casting, with a chance die for Paradox.

For a Gnosis 3 Mage with Time 3, that's 4 Paradox dice. Odds are that will generate only one success, even without mitigation, which you can contain with your Wisdom.
But assuming dedicated too, that's 7 dice casting pool, with 2 paradox dice.

This shit is easy, don't try and pretend otherwise.

>>55096417
See, that makes a bit of sense, but where was it before? I've visited these threads a few years back and things were fine and dandy, was there some spark that lit the powder keg that I missed?

>>55096386
>other game with blatant power imbalances inside them don't get like this

Gee, I wonder what Pathfinder is?

>>55096445
Unless I'm misinterpreting, thats exactly what I'm talking about. Go check the pathfinder general right now, you won't see entire threads taken up by people wanking/bitching about how much stronger wizards are, it's barely talked about.

>>55096386
It isn't a flame war. It is a bait that is constantly taken. Since people now want to do it 'for the lulz' like it is some sort of tradition, it just repeats itself.

You notice how much better the end of the last thread was when we were discussing what the ten photographs could be about? That is this thread on normal.

If people just ignored all shitstirring posts, we could discuss lore, help with builds, etc.

>>55095379
>>55095426
Is a werewolf even bestiality? They're not actually wolves OR humans. They're a separate, fully sapient species.

Considering that they're half spirit it's really more like fucking a minor deity.

>>55096419
It's even easier to go back multiple scenes, at Gnosis 1, as you can spend 1 point of Mana for each scene.

To go back 6 scenes, would be 8 paradox.
Impose a -2 penalty to make the duration one day, add in High Speech, and Dedicated Tool.

Even if your tool isn't of an appropriate sort, that's 4 dice (7 with Willpower), and 6 paradox dice. Throw in a little bit of mana, and you can decrease that even further. Or perhaps take the Paradox Condition on your chin, and then Pattern Scour it away for 1 Lethal.

Congratulations, for at worst 1 resistant Lethal and a point of Willpower, a Gnosis 1 starting Mage with 3 Time can redo what is likely an entire day. And the only way you can stop that, is if you for some reason decide to throw in another Mage who for some reason wants to and has the means to dispel that spell.

>>55096435
My gut says Beast coming out just soured everyone.

>>55095662
IT makes it fundamentally not Necrophilia, the point of necrophilia is that the corpse is non-responsive, the ultimate submissive in a way, because necrophiliacs are so socially dysfunctional that they can't cope with a partner that can react in any way they can't control.
A vampire is a sentient animated entity that can pass for a living being if you don't look to closely and don't know the signs - it's not necrophilia.

>>55096468
Only the arguments usually aren't about Beast. I think people widely agree that Beast has problems, so if anything, it's bringing people together. Thanks Onyx Path!

>>55096386

It used to be that Aspel would say something silly or derail and all the arguments would revolve around then. Without them, shitposting about power levels is all that's left.

>>55096466
Gnosis one can only spend one mana per turn yeah? So it isn't really instant anymore right? (Unless you already mentioned that, in which case ignore me)

>>55096493
I suppose one of us must take up his mantel

Beast is objectively the best game line white wolf has ever put out.

>>55096491
>think people widely agree that Beast has problems, so if anything, it's bringing people together

Kumbaya, all splats should band together to wipe out the menace that are beasts!

I eagerly await the Genocide Chronicle.

>>55096499
That's fair. But if you're worried about that, you can just hop back one scene first, before there was danger, and then cast your major rewind spell from the safety you gain from the first spell.

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>>55096513
Good luck getting that going when all supernatural people have that inherent automatic like of beast.

>>55096508
>Beast is objectively the best game line white wolf has ever put out.

So, how 'bout them important lessons...

>>55096521
True. Jump back a scene then ritual cast the rest of the way.

>>55096491
I think that negative feelings stirred by it needed some outlet, ran down familiar channels, and now the faggotry has reached classic 90s levels or something.

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Another glorious day to be a Magefag

>>55096523
>Good luck getting that going when all supernatural people have that inherent automatic like of beast.

That's why mages will lead the vanguard of beast destruction. They only tolerate beasts by default, and their magic can knock sense into the other splats about how their beast love is forced, artificial and wrong.

>>55096527
Something something bigots, punch a nazi, all people who don't think the way I do need violence and abuse to be corrected

>>55096508
>>55096527
>>55096549

You are all very bad at this. Someone post some prime Aspel derails or something for reference.

>>55095973

That's a strangely interesting mental image.

That said, it reminds me of a cross chronicles game I play in once. I was a Ahru Child of Gaia and our group was tasked with checking out a casino ran by a mage, a vampire, and a werewolf (forgot what tribe he was from) anyways, long story short I put on some weird ring I got from a Fae lady and the next thing I know I wake up in my wolf form (the one after Crinos) having smashed the table beneath me and the party telling me there was reports of some naked lady riding a weird dog thing in the alleyways Lady Godiva style.

so yeah I gave the fey the wolf cock.

Can vampires learn blood magic outside the order of the crone?

Asking for a friend.

>>55096583
>Asking for a friend

Oh no you fucking DON'T! I know a vampfag when I see one. Get out.

>>55096583

1e, sorry. Should have clarified.

>>55096587

No, I'm seriously asking for a friend. I roll Mage, and we're in a crossover game.

Currently I'm trying to figure out how to link Artifacts and/or enchanted items to make my pocket dimension permanent.

>>55096523
But anon. I play Demon. I have zero fondness for even gayer Changelings.

>>55096568
Alright here's one: The God-Machine is morally in the right, every other splat is existing in rebellion to it.

>>55096606
The god-machine doesn't have morals.

>>55096568
>Someone post some prime Aspel derails or something for reference.

Beasts are so nice and special that they deserve their own pronouns.

If you don't agree with me, you are mentally ill and a Nazi.

>>55096606

I don't see it. Mages are too busy infighting to rebel against shit.

>>55096599
Stop lying. Come out of the closet, you vampfaggeroo.

>>55096620
>The god-machine doesn't have morals.

But it does have standards; even the GM doesn't like beasts.

How does one fuck the God-Machine?

Bonus: Without going insane

>>55096252
Name a worse general I'll fucking wait

>>55096652
/cyoag/

>>55096628

Dude, seriously. I'm not a fan of vampire. If I wanted the information for me, I would just go book diving. Between me and the ST we have every WoD book ever published.

I don't even know how blood magic works, just apparently that my friend is angry that only a faction he hates gets to use it.

>>55096652

Quest Thread Generals used to be pretty amazingly bad before the board split.

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>>55096679
>just apparently that my friend is angry that only a faction he hates gets to use it.
>my friend

I'm sure

>>55096679

It's ok, we're all friends here. You can come out of the vampire closet.

>>55096679
It's ok. You're not alone. Vampfags need to stick together.

You guys are fucking assholes

>>55096726
I only fuck vaginas

>>55096694
>>55096698
>>55096710

Fuck it, I apparently caught /tg/ in 'worthless cunt' mode today. I'm gonna go back trying to balance custom legacies.

>>55096667
Dangit that was going to be my answer.

>>55096748
If I knew anything about blood sorcery, or was in front of my books, I would answer for you anon.

Otherwise my expectation is 'no, unless it is a plot point'

>>55096583
As long as someone teaches you, you can learn any of the Covenant-specific powers. It's often an executable offense if you're caught with them, but a resourceful dude could learn Cruac, Theban AND Coils for example. Hell, Dracula did this in the Rites of the Dragon book.

>>55096455
Just say path of war is /is not overpowered you will probably start a thread long argument, you may even make it a multithread argument.

>>55096667
>>55096757
I don't see it. They regularly put out new content, have minimal infighting and so on, post and comment on others builds for the bigger ones. What's bad about them.

What does the creature from the black lagoon do anyway?

>>55096649
There are a couple different ways.
Step 1 for each of them is to contact it in some way by interacting with an angel, how you get the machine to agree I'm going to leave up to your imagination.
Then it likely proceeds with the god machine making dedicated infrastructure for the task, perhaps taking the form of a highly advanced sex toy or fuckbot or something. In the end it wouldn't be much different than one of those electric onaholes hooked up to a computer.

>>55096994
Make sure to wrap your jimmy or vagoo

>>55096159
>Acanthus players have accused me of persecuting them more than once.
That's because you very clearly are. Don't really blame you since Acanthus are the top dogs of Mage supremacy but be upfront about fucking Time/Fate over if you aren't already.

>>55097022
Why? You think something like the god machine is going to give you STD's?

>>55097052
Yes. Not one from this dimension, but it clearly has never been tested.

>>55096466
At Gnosis 1 you can only spend one mana per turn and you can only incorporate one yantra in spellcasting. I also don't know where you got 1 point of Mana for each scene. For 2e it's a Reach effect, and each scene you go back adds one Reach.

>>55096419
Easy fix, make up your own more potent time travel spell that requires Patterning and justify similarly to Teleportation, the caster is rewriting her Pattern as being back in time to her earlier one or something. It can only back one scene, and then they can spend a mana to add 3 Reach, going back another scene, so their base Paradox pool will be at least six if they instant cast it. Change Shifting Sands to only go back one turn, and change the Reach effects. For one Reach, the spell is cast reflexively instead of instantly. For two Reach, you add go back two turns. 3 or 4 turns is the cap.

>>55097052
>>55097106

You do Not want a God Machine virus?

The rash and itching are out of this world.

>>55097033
I just make it harder to for them to use Time and Fate to fuck with the game incredibly. I'm not doing it because I hate them.

>>55097174
The first mana complaint is worth considering, however as I said to that other guy, you can still just either jump back a single turn, or risk a bit of Bashing or Lethal.

And no, even from Gnosis 1 you still get 2 Yantras.
And I was talking about 1 mana per scene, because each additional scene is +1 Reach, which is +1 Paradox die, which can be mitigated with a point of Mana.

>>55097291
>easy fix
>make up your own more potent time travel
That is entirely retarded.
The entire point of the rules is to be playable as-is.
I have no desire to go back through a rulebook and rebalance comprehensively every spell I think isn't well designed, and then make my players sit through reading all of my exceptions and new spells.

>>55097359
>The entire point of the rules is to be playable as-is.
They are. I rarely have trouble with players doing magic like this. No system perfectly enables perfect play perfectly however, and if tweaking things to ensure your games go smoothly or that things are to your taste is too much work, you're probably better off being a player and finding an ST with some creativity, flexibility, and initiative.

>>55097359
I think he said one yantra because only one yantra is reflexive.

>>55097501
Either way, it's still incredibly doable without any mana mitigation, and with just one yantra.

Given that it requires no Potency and hits no Withstand to use Shifting Sands for multiple scenes, and as long as you contain the Paradox.

Which given you can just scour any Paradox Condition from excessive contained successes for just 1 resistant Lethal, regardless of its potency, seems like a VERY bad decision to me.

Perhaps "+3 Reach: May travel back Scenes equal to Potency" instead.

>>55097562
It would actually be better to split it into two spells, as suggested. It's not like it would be hard at all and it would stop players from doing this right out of character creation, and a maximum number of turns and scenes that you're allowed to go back would be wise as well.

>>55097472
Putting aside your not-so-subtle insult, Mage works fine if (likely like your group) they either don't know how, or have chosen not to break it.

But when it comes down to the wire, as it has in my games before, we've refused to put aside the bullshit powerful tools the system has handed us, and abused many of the broken things available to use to defeat a Gnosis 6+ second-degree Master who didn't use those abilities.

Without them, we would have stood no chance, and honestly? That's how I would have preferred it.

What are good set ups for a 'road trip' style game?

My first thought was 'Semi truck drivers', like in Alice Isn't Dead (If you guys haven't listened to any of that, it is a podcast style thing where a lady is leaving messages for her wife that vanished, and her semi keeps running into weird things as she travels).

But that is 2 people max, how many semi drivers would be in one car?

You could have a military convoy, but then you can't really dawdle since you need to be headed straight for your destination.

Thieves I guess, they would travel a lot, have reason to travel together, and want to stick together despite the stupid stuff happening. Robbers would work.

Only times I've done it, it was a game where everyone could be a minor template (ghouls, non-purified immortals, etc) and the game didn't make it super long. The other game I pulled an amnesia trick.

Everyone woke up in a beat up old car, some of them with previous wounds. There was a dossier in the car with files on different strange people. The top file was for an address they were parked a block away from.

>>55094780
>>55095348
Out of curiousity, can there be some justification for women to mate with monsters other than simple "religious fanatic" or... love? (How slim the chance may be)

>>55097957
It's their fetish?

I see a lot of complaints about Paradox and Reach. After thinking it over for like a minute, I have some simple, easily applied suggestions I would like to pitch. I don't necessarily mean for these to be all applied at once.

>You can only mitigate the Paradox pool if you're releasing it. If you contain it, you roll your Wisdom against the entire Paradox pool.
>Instead of one bashing for every countered success, it's one resistant bashing per one
countered success, which would then be turned into lethal if there were two. Repeat as necessary.
>Every Reach beyond the free Reach determined by your Arcanum rating adds a turn to the casting time.
>Every Reach beyond your free Reach adds your Gnosis times two to the Paradox pool.
>To enable Paradox mitigation with Mana, you must spend a willpower point.
>Spell anomalies can occur with only 1 success on the Paradox roll.
>Paradox can affect your Dedicated Tool, tainting it with a Paradox Condition that makes it unable to help you mitigate Paradox for the duration of the Condition.

Thoughts? I'm really just spitballing here.

>>55095426
Wait, Vamps have boner? I thought they physically can't do it or feel any pleasure in it, and don't even have the urge to do it.

>>55097957
What do you mean justification?

Like story justification, or justification from them?

>>55097991
Vampires can still get boners and be sexually active. They just prefer the sweet taste of another's blood.

The Kiss is better than sex for them, not that they don't do both at the same time.

>>55095426
And now I wonder if homid kin/garou + lupus kin/garou can have child if they have sex in that forms.

>>55097957
>"religious fanatic" or... love?

Mind control. Never forget mind control.

CofD is very rapey.

>>55098001
Both, I guess?

>>55098015
>They just prefer the sweet taste of another's blood.
>The Kiss is better than sex for them

Please explain to me again why mages and other supernaturals haven't wiped out the vampire scourge?

>>55098060
Story-wise:
Mind control
The monster doesn't look monstrous to others/some/women/whatever
They are just that desperate
The monster is just that good at it

For the woman:
The monster is just that good at it
Like seriously, have you seen the dong on those guys?
No, I want you to take hold of it, feel the heat coming off of it for a minute. You won't be able to walk straight after this.

>>55098067
As many people here like to say, Mages aren't heroes. They don't care if vampires are out there biting people and having blood orgies. They aren't a cool enough mystery for mages to bother.

Will you guys stay on CofD? Or move to 5th?

20th was ok for nostalgic reasons, but I'm not sure about full new edition.

>>55097991
That was back in Masquerade, I believe.

>>55098122
They could still get erections in Masquerade if they worked for it.

>>55098060
Maybe they share similar interests and values and enjoyed each others company enough that it developed into a healthy relationship based on mutual respect and understanding?

>>55098121
I don't play vampire but people I know that do aren't terribly interested in V5.

>>55098121
Most of us playing CofD are here from nWoD, not from oWoD.

I don't even think about 5th, it is a non-issue, wasted space in my brain.

>>55098156

Relationship of Darkness

Chronicles of Bestiality

I'm a nuWoD faggot, but am I the only one here that actually prefers some of the old lore over the new?

Just look at Masquerade, it's so much more compelling than Requiem despite relying on a crappier system.

>>55098285

>Calls nWoD "nuWoD"

Pretty sneaky, sis.

>>55098285
Naw. I mean, most of the old vampire bloodlines and such have been translated, so that is all dealt with. But the lore, never really impressed me.

With Werewolf, I can't even stand it.

With Mage, it all seems to boil down to wizards fighting in space, and I've never heard any of it that even sounded like a serious game.

>>55098285
In terms of world-building and lore

Masquerade > Requiem
Apocalypse <? Forsaken
Ascension = Awakening
Dreaming < Lost
Wraith > Geist
Resurrection < Curse
Fallen <<< Descent

>>55097957
Make babies with spooky super powers?

Can you guys think of any useful tidbits for this character? I only got a minimum idea:

> A person who erases other's memory they wish to forget
> Be it painful, remorseful, etc
> Via magic, Dominate, or other means (haven't decided the 'race' yet)
> Character will probably claim itself as a hypnotist to hide its true identity

>>55098067

Generally? Bigger problems.

As bad as vampires look, you have to remember a few things:

1: A good portion of vampires don't kill, or even really harm their 'victims'. In fact animals and I believe actual blood bags are just as valid a target for their hunger. Scourge isn't the best of terms, since Vampires deliberately try to limit their numbers, maintain a semblance of order, and cull the worst parts of their herd as a matter of course.

2: There are bigger problems. Created don't really organize very well, Werewolves are trying to balance nature and keep the world spinning, Mages have to deal with banishers (and Seers actively work to make the world worse, so they're probably helping vampires spread), and Mummies are literally worse in every way. Compared to that the only Vampire related problems that isn't them doing normal day to day people shit is killing one or two dudes occasionally.

>>55098285

It can be pretty hit and miss overall. Some stuff got better, some stuff got worse, some stayed the same-ish, but everything changed a bit.

Personally I think the Old Clans are way fucking better than the New ones, but I think that's just solid fact.

>>55098370
There's a mage legacy related to this: Logophage. Some mummies are exceptional at stealing memories and could even give somebody a total amnesia fresh start as an alternative to suicide.

>>55097957
Nigga we live in a post Bad Dragon world, >>55097972 and >>55098097 speak the truth.
You don't need to be a weird cultist to go for the monster dick.

>>55098370

That's an alright start. Just so you know, Hypnotism is an actual thing in the rules (at least in nWod 1e, the rulebook I have on hand) that you can explicitly augment via supernatural abilities.

Also mages have a thing where they can base their practices on scentific or occult practices (real or fake) to embower and hide their spells.

>>55098359
>Make babies with spooky super powers?

What could go wrong...

>Deviant - Coming Soon!

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So /wodg/ healer or warrior?

>>55098370
Addon/memo:
> Character will have to 'see' the memory, no matter how dirty, shameful, dreadful, sad, etc

>>55098493

I TRUST IN DAVE

>>55098377

The blood bad argument always annoys me. People donate blood to help the sick and injured, not feed the undead. Every blood bad the leeches consumes reduces badly needed resources for the intended and deserving.

Vampires are also loathsome (besides being the animated immortal dead who consume the blood of the living) because they've insinuated themselves in and control so many human institutions. They deprive humanity of free will and agency.

There is absolutely nothing redeeming about vampires (and beasts) and much to legitimately fear and despise. They are the victimizers, never the victim. The are a pox on humanity, and should be treated accordingly by anyone with even a hint of conscience.

The only good thing a vampire can do is greet the morning dawn.

>>55098569
Is that you Jophiel?

>>55098581

No more Jophiel posts. Too many Anons were triggered.

Nevertheless, I don't anyone could persuasively argue that vampires should be allowed to exist. Heck, they're already dead.

>>55098564
>I TRUST IN DAVE

I hope your faith the the Komodo God is not misplaced.

>>55097973
No, seriously, what do you guys think about these?

>>55094780
Can anyone hook me up with the original OP image?

>>55098642

Check out Ben Newman's art.

>>55098569
Okay.

They still aren't the biggest threat in the world. In fact, they are pretty low tier.

On top of that, what army are you going to unite to kill them, and how?

They are the most populous creeps, they have vast numbers of allies, some of which are supernatural by their hand.

On top of that, even if you started a campaign to unseat them, they can cause remarkable damage as they went down, or quickly rebuild their numbers if they thought they were fighting a war.

Vampires haven't been wiped out because they are too numerous, and too rooted in society. Good luck with that.

>>55098675

Vampires are like cockroaches.

You need not spend every waking moment trying to exterminate them, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't incinerate every leech you may come across. It's a public service.

Vampires should *fear* that their requiems could end at any moment. They need to learn that there are predators and hunters far scarier than them.

>>55095042
It's pretty much exactly the same as Inferno pact making, though. I hope they don't just reuse it.

>>55098711
>Herp derp, I don't know that vampires fear those they know can kill them.

>>55095042
One page for pact mechanics, six pages for setting your game in Borneo

>>55098810
Don't forget a page of cultural sensitivity sidebars!

>>55098823

And culinary advice.

>Don't forget, eat local and organic!

Why are Mummies so terrible?

>>55098885
Why do you think they're so terrible?

>>55098885
Honestly, it was the end of 1e, and they were trying to throw something against the wall and see what sticks.

Mummy plays different than any other game in the line. It has the most unique stuff going on, and takes the biggest risks.

It is the Beasts of 1e, and unlike Beast we didn't have to dwell on how lame it was because then 2e came out.

>>55098711
Isn't life as a Vampire in Requiem total suckage to begin with?

>>55098897
I'm not that anon but I'll tell you MY reasons.

1. The system is cumbersome. Those Utterances are a mess to read.

2. Character creation is a goddamned mess with those 42 Judges, 5 Pillars, 7 Secret Herbs and Spices.

3. The game's vocabulary is confusing, with too many similar-sounding non-English words.

4. They'd have you believe mummies only wake up briefly and at long intervals, but the truth is your character is a retard for doing that and any mummy who's NOT a chump is awake more or less all the time.

5. Despite being a game about protagonists who wake up with total amnesia, you can't just drop players straight into it and go from there. They have to study the book like it's for their chemistry final just to make fucking characters.

6. It's assumed that player mummies will go rogue. Not going rogue should be more of an option.

>>55098916

Well, Mummy is getting a 2e.

Let's see what OPP/WW will change.

I'm sure with can trust Rich's competence as "creative director"...

>>55095612
What about fomori? Or did NWoD do away with them?

>>55098965
Fair enough. I really didn't have that much of a problem with any of it, but the vocabulary issue was helped for me by being bilingual and assuming that the book was written with the jaundiced eye of a Judge; ie, it's not actually going to be utterly reflective of a mummy who isn't retarded. Like NoKo propaganda. I guess we'll get to see what they do with it in 2e.

What made you guys play CofD over cWoD? Because in my country (well, player base is pretty small to begin with, but anyway) cWoD is WAY more popular than CofD (except for C:tL), so got curious.

>>55099041
I was introduced to the game after 1999.

I imagine that is all. If I learned about owod first, I might have played that. But I was given nwod, and I was given it so late that owod was already 'old'.

Before that my only exposure to the lore of owod was a brief stint playing the werewolf card game.

>>55098972
I think they are going. Looking them up, they sound like a mix of lower depths demons, or just basic spirits representing sins that then try to claim someone.

>>55098990

The easiest change they can make is always refer to the mechanics in English, with occasional references to their Egyptian terms. Sekhem gets a pass, but the Pillars absolutely should have been Heart, Name, Shadow, Personality, and Life Spark. Maybe change those last two into something simpler that is not Mind and Life.

>>55098965
I agree with all of this here.

When I finally realized that A) you can sit at low sekhem for months at a time and B) your cult can wake you up for whatever, it kind of throws away the feeling of time being against you.

>>55098990
7. Oh yeah and the waking periods are too long. I wanted each arising to be pretty fast, with the mummy racing against the clock like in 48 Hours.

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>>55096969
Not much honestly, its a ancient reptile man from millions of years ago awoken in the present (or the 50s if you want to be pedantic about it). It can live underwater, it has super-strength and its bullet resistant (if i recall).

>>55099118
And like most ancient monsters of the 50s, it wants to know where the white women at?

Do all supernaturals in CofD share same timeline & world (everything in their relative history happened on the same Earth)? Or do they live in alternate universe to one another?

>>55099096
That's exactly where I stopped reading the corebook. CofD badly needs a game you can offer to someone who's never played before and have them playing the next minute. Promethean could have been that game, Mummy could have been that game, and they just keep getting further and further away from that game. I don't think they realize how bad this is because too many of their writers and fans buy these games to read and debate online, not to play. God help the people who fit my mental image of a dtrpg customer, buying each new pdf so they can go on the official forums to talk about how the new thing is inspiring them to add to their 300,000-word fanfiction about gypsies and Tremere begun back in 1999.

>>55099142
If I become a rubber suit monster, remind me to ask where the differently-abled neuroatypical nonbinary women of color at.

>>55099149
It's whatever you want.

>>55099149
Canonically they all exist together. How so and in what way is entirely up to the ST.

>>55099149
Depends how you want to run it as an st.

The beauty of cofd/nwod is nothing is true until the st says it is. Plausible deniability at the table.

If it isn't a game in that game line, you can assume only that line is accurate until your st says or reveals otherwise.

For instance, I had a long werewolf game. Changing breeds shifters (without their terrible fluff) showed up all the time, but mages and vampires never did. A demon did once, maybe. The closest they got to dealing with a vampire turned out to actually be a bat shifter.

On the other hand I had a mage game where they got to fight a Promethean, and vampires.

It can mess with the expectations of players of stuff they expect to he true, isn't true. For instance, you could have a vampire in your game, but dont give them the normal vampire rules. Build them with dread powers and watch as your players go 'eh?' When staking it doesnt work.

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>>55096969
Goddamn it, the first thing that came to my mind after reading "creature from the black lagoon" was these bitches.

> Moment I realized that my brain is corrupted beyond repair

>>55099171
Whatever floats your boat.

>>55099193
Even if changelings ARE real in your vampire game, that doesn't mean your vampires will ever run into them. Everybody's busy with their own thing.

>>55098711

It would be a hard fight to lose if, say, the pentacle orders decided to up and do that. Were it not for the 'problem'.

The problem is two fold: mathematically, let's assume a vampire can sire ONLY one new vampire a night, and that childe can't sire a new vampire for at least a week. I'm lowballing like a motherfucker, but that's just for ease of calculation.

That comes out to over a thousand new vampires daily by the end of the month. Granted, that's assuming none of the vampires from this rapidly expanding brood are killed, but it's also assuming that we're starting with only one vampire.

By the end of month two, that number is hovering around two MILLION new vampires a night.

And again, this is a slower rate than could be achieved, with a much smaller starting number.

So, assuming Vampires basically said 'ah, fuck it' and went hog wild, we'd have about a year to wipe them out before humanity doesn't have a viable gene pool anymore. All of the vampires not involved in this plan are going to go so far underground that you'd need an oil derrick to find them, but if it's a war for their very survival, there's not going to be any neutral parties by default.

These rates also aren't taking two separate factors into account: Other splats, and the fact that vampires are going to be killing as many people as they're turning, at least. Probably more than that, because humanity as a whole is not ready to fight a war against a predator species that looks exactly like them, and is a clusterfuck breeding-bomb like the one I just described by nature of their existence.

The Werewolves will probably be trying to help, if only to try and waylay the absolute nightmare realm two separate global genocides would be turning the spirit realms into. However, they might be limited in their ability to aid by said clusterfuck.

>>55099201
Just seems like the competition for white women is everywhere

>>55099209
Indeed, this is also true.

If I wanted to put a vampire in my game there was nothing stopping me. It just didn't fit with the story and themes.

>>55099219

The Pentacle Orders would probably be doing everything they can about it, but given that vampires are going to outnumber the global awakened population a thousand times over by the end of the week, paradox is going to slow them down. Also, Seers will probably be trying to make the situation worse, because they literally are a global conspiracy that exists only to make things worse.

Promethians are two few and too spread out generally to have a massive impact on things, but they could probably do stuff to mitigate local damages where the do exist.

The Fae will be taking advantage of the global chaos and total breakdown of the masquerade to nab as much shit as they possibly can, but the courts and changelings in general might be convinced to help, but god only knows at what cost.

Mummies and Fallen I won't comment on, because I don't know the individual lines well enough, and Sin-Eaters are going to be horribly out of their depth from before this shit even starts.

The best case scenario for World War 3 starts with everyone just believing vampires exist and getting the drop on the entirety of kindred society. We lose a minimum of one third the global population before the dust settles completely, and if we don't get every vampire (including ancients sleeping in hidden crypts somewhere) we have about two hundred years before we're back to more or less exactly where we are now, with Vampires living on the fringe of society in the shadows, trying to gain wealth and ease the pain of their requiem in the private sanctums.

Granted, as a Campaign premise this sounds AMAZING, but fucking with vampires just isn't worth it. Just let them do their thing man.

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>>55099197
Eh. Black Lagoon is a solid sort of show. It could be worse.

>>55099231
Don't forget torpid vampires melded into ancient caves and rock formations with Protean! Or vampires like the Theban! Or Edimmu! Jesus christ, the Edimmu would create more vampires just for the dinner plate.

>>55099257

Yeah, I downplayed the vampire capabilities a lot. I didn't account for any clan abilities like using dominate to force innocents to die in their war as foot soldiers.

Fuck, I didn't even put any numbers down for ghouls, or humans killing stupid Goth kids because they don't know how to spot the vampire in the room yet.

>>55099149
The various supernaturals acknowledge that there are others out there, whether or not you want them in your game is up to you.
A Requiem game without werewolves or vampires hardly means these two don't exist.

Indeed, the classic 'stereotypes' sidebars are examples of this.

>>55099152
The drop in and play game is mortals, always has been for nwod.

Takes like twenty minutes at most to make a character. From there you can literally turn them into other splats.

Group awakening? All turned by a coterie? They all turn out to be wolf blooded and have their changes over a month? Get hit by a car and become a sin-eater?

>>55099279
>A Requiem game without werewolves or vampires
>vampires

Derpity derp. Replace that with any other supernatural.

>>55099277
Devotions like Celebrity are memetic, which lets us infer that there are others similar. And *real* problems when more hostile devotions come out of things like that.

Not to mention people like Zagreus, who the world literally listens to. Who is apparently in the custody of Cheiron for shits and giggles. I can't wait for him to somehow become an alien.

>>55099297
>Not to mention people like Zagreus, who the world literally listens to

You must be referring to The Dark Decree. A shame they never really expanded on that Devotion.
You don't really know how far it reaches or the fine tunings it can supposedly accomplish in accordance with its vague wording.

>>55098916
>>55098965
I mean why are they considered evil?

>>55099277
And on top of that, we have to remember that this is a war that would have to be fought on the ground. Any grand super archmages out there would have their work undone by whatever pax arcana stuff if they tried to just unmake all vampires or something, because that is too big a rewrite to reality. Vampires are part of the status quo, they need to exist for the world to be in its current state, and it will crumble if you just try to change that. And even if we don't believe that, there is a mage just as powerful who wouldn't allow such a spell to stand.

>>55099297
Zagreus, being thousands of years old, always seemed a bit of a silly character. His devotion is comparable to Fate 4 and his desire to reacquaint himself with his past always begged the question; why didn't he just run to a Mage to discover what happened during his 'missed' century?

I just wanted to note for those that don't know, the OP picture is not the creature from the black lagoon, but rather a satirical take on the Deep Ones from the Cthulhu mythos who mate with humans.

>>55099311
I think that, for once, might have been intentional.
Actually, on the topic of super vampires, what do we have?
Djorjan is probably the most 'human', trying to turn himself into a gestalt entity. Zagreus is a minor godling. The Sightless Mother is a vampiric ghost, somehow, like the Ash that Devours on steroids. The Unholy is probably Anoushka in Golconda. We've got those three what-the-fuck things in the Gangrel Clanbook. What have I missed?

>>55099329
Same difference.

>>55099152

>CofD badly needs a game you can offer to someone who's never played before and have them playing the next minute.

That game has always existed, and it is Vampire. That goes for WoD as well. Hunter is a very, very close second, tied with Mortals.

Promethean and Mummy were never even close to being that kind of game because they're too high concept even before the terminology.

>>55099317
>too big a rewrite to reality
Nothing is too big for an Archmaster.
#Hubris

>there is a mage just as powerful who wouldn't allow such a spell to stand.
Perhaps an Archmage of Death really is responsible for the Kindred Curse, as Imperial Mysteries suggests.

>>55099345
Or just seer mage that knows their exarch wants vampires to exist. So, lel nope.

>>55099336
I haven't touched A Thousand Years of Night yet, but I believe there are a few other Methuselahs within those pages.

>>55099345
Except it doesn't. It just says that one once inflicted the curse.

>>55099358
Yeah, there are. But none of them are really alien - they're just turbo vampires.

>>55099360
How is that any different from what Anon said? lol

>>55099370
He's saying Mages were responsible for the entire vampiric condition, and that's wrong.

>>55099358

To be blunt, the elders in ATYoN are pussies and chumps. Most can be easily dealt with by mage adepts, no less masters. The methuselahs wouldn't even be noticed by someone as august and powerful as an archmage.

>>55099386
No one cares.

>>55099384
Anon said an Archmage was responsible (which may or may not be true, as in theory) for the curse, yes. Not sure where the "entire" is coming from.

>>55099392
I care, I just gave up on arguing. There are three magefags for every vampfag.

>>55099394
>Perhaps an Archmage of Death really is responsible for the Kindred Curse, as Imperial Mysteries suggests.

If you can't parse that sentence, then you're beyond help.

>>55099384
Yes, apples also aren't apples.

>>55099384
It doesn't matter if it's wrong or not, it's a theory proposed in Imperial Mysteries.

>>55099402
It isn't really an argument. Archmages are a non entity. They seemingly can't do anything that isn't either undone because it is too much, or only applies to then because of weird archmage rules.

I've honestly just stopped paying attention whenever archmages are brought up because they are a nuclear option that is never used. They can't do anything but threaten to do things.

Archmages are a different game line to the rest of the game. Anyone bringing them up isn't even having a conversation about cofd at that point.

H:tR question: Does Conviction make Imbued immune to ALL mind-affecting effects (Dominate, Mind, etc) no matter the rank of said effects (5, or even 6+)? Or is there a limit?

>>55099384
>He's saying Mages were responsible for the entire vampiric condition, and that's wrong.
How do you know that for sure?

At GenCon, OPP mentioned a Requiem supplement with an alternative setting where the Masquerade has fallen.

I'm curious if crossover will be mentioned, and how mages and other supernaturals will react.

>>55099435
>Anyone bringing them up isn't even having a conversation about cofd at that point.
Yes they are.

>>55099459
Don't we already have that in mirrors?

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>>55099435
Archmages do shit all the time, you just never notice it.
That's kind of the point with retroactive Imperial magic

>>55099469
>Don't we already have that in mirrors?

Apparently not.

>>55099315
They serve a parasitic imperial death city hidden in hell, they steal and destroy priceless magical artifacts, they have cults, and they drive people insane just by waking up. Most of their life experience tells them that slavery, violence, and conquest are normal. They steal memories, throw curses, cause natural disasters, and seem to be linked to the fall of empires throughout history. They frequently place little value on human life, and when they wake up they're nearly mindless killing machines at first. Their philosophies reduce people to useful pawns or enjoyable dolls. They have difficulty sharing a modern human frame of reference about anything. They serve forgotten gods whose moral prohibitions and cruel punishments make little sense to people today. They literally can't be killed.

>>55096549
>all people who don't think the way I do need violence and abuse to be corrected
>But I must punch the Neo-Nazis
No anon, you are the Neo-Nazi.
>And then anon was a flailing altright acidflinger.

>>55099483
Dave has compared Imperium to cosmic blackjack. Archmages look at the World of Darkness as a boardgame, just like us.

They're scary because they just don't care.

Thinking about fish shifter deep ones, Lovecraft, and neo- Nazis, I kind of want to have a cult of fishmen that have been sneaking into town to steal women. And when the players investigate, they realize these fishmen are neo Nazis trying to keep 'white pride' by only kidnapping white women.

I mean they still need to go save the poor kidnap victims, but it'll make a nice facepalm twist.

>>55099531
Why should you?

When the person you're talking to could easily be accidentally erased by some other careless Seeker's Aponoia.

>>55099339
Promethean is fucking Frankenstein. There's nothing inaccessible about "you're a Frankenstein's Monster type dude and you wake up on a slab." Mummies are a little weirder, unless you happen to have seen a mummy movie.

>>55099551
They have a little more work than that because of refinements and roles. It is possible to just put characters in a starting role based on a quick question or two. But I'd you let them dive in, them have them choose alembics by reading all the powers, it stops being 'drop in and play.'

>>55099570
What the absolute hell phone.

'But if you have them dive in
Then have them

>>55099428
Except it isn't.

>>55099592
It isn't a theory or it isn't correct?

>>55099515
Without getting into the similarities between them and other splats, there's still no objective evil in CofD and their behaviour makes perfect sense, to them.

Well, no objective evil except for the Purified. Fuck those guys. And probably whenever someone makes a fansplat out of Demon: the Fallen translation guide and Inferno. That will actually be a group of the objectively evil.

>>55099602
Both. He's making up a theory, a theory that isn't mentioned in Mysteries.
The only part in Imperial Mysteries talking about vampiric infliction is a part where it mentions that nobody can undo the Embrace/First Change, because the nebulously termed 'sponsors' slap your shit for trying. It goes on to say that if you tickle the balls and suck their dicks really nicely they might let you turn a human INTO one of their charges, but that's it.

>>55099607
>moral relativity
I wonder who could be behind this post

>>55099622
Do we even know who the 'sponsors' of vampires are?

>>55099607
The question was why are they CONSIDERED evil.

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>>55099624
Would you feel better if I said I actually am one?
>>55099632
No. We don't. We don't even know if they created them. Probably didn't.

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It's more a rumor than a theory.

Whether you interpret "inflicted" as the 'source' or 'inject template here', is up to you

>"lel, I will go autistic if you make muh templates without muh permission"
--Every splat sponsor every, except for maybe True Fae

>"kek, I will just make a superior version instead. muh archmagics > you."
--Every rational Archmage ever

>>55099670
"So then I sez, 'I'mma improve on all yer work, an' yer great achievements will be for naught before my greater,' an' I made a vampire-plus -- all the properties of a vampire, plus his nose plays La Cucaracha when he sneezes."

>>55099670
This takes a peck at my curiosity.

Why not make Templates without any of their drawbacks.
Seven dots(Entities) can do just that.

They're technically different and not bound under any sponsor but the Seeker.

>>55099670
>Contagion chronicle.jpg

>>55099698
Probably because it's not that easy, but the Seers apparently breed a lot of supernatural entities and it's mentioned that lots of people make imitation shapeshifters for their purposes.

This Template fuckery is something Archmage do? Isn't that a bit much?

Could you 'hack' with the Forces arcanum?

>>55099738
Go paw through Imperial Mysteries. You'll be less vulnerable to the trolls once you eyeball what's actually in the book.

>>55099738
Seven dots is 'Template Fuckery', yes.

>>55098339

>Apocalypse <? Forsaken
>Ascension = Awakening
>Fallen <<< Descent

Couldn't be more wrong. The rest are spot on though.

>>55099742
Sure, both Forces and Matter ruling can break any security measures with a Ruling spell.

What would an 'Anti Internet Troll' Rote look like?

>>55099738
Practice of Entities can add stuff, Practice of Excision can take it away.
Both are 7 dots.

Want a person whose very vital essence is tied into Fate? Practice of Entities (Fate).
Want to remove a Vampire's vulnerability to sunlight? Practice of Excision (Death).
Want to create your own special brand of Were-being? Practice of Entities (Spirit).
Want to create a race of true, undying immortals? Practice of Excision (Death).

>>55099782

Forced, paid and named registration to post combinedwith merciless yet impartial moderation.

>>55099742
You can activate machinery that would otherwise require a password, yes. I also recall a Forces Knowing spell from the Free Council book that allows you to "read" electronic storage devices.

>>55099767
>>55099861

Combine Prime 1's Word of Command and Matter's Remote Control to flip through things like card locks?

>>55099149
Officially yes, but almost every crossover is a clusterfuck. Generally it's up to ST discretion about what exists in the world. As a rule I'd say to make your Chronicle make the setting centric to your splat. Playing vampire? Kindred rule the night. The city is their city, sure you might run into uppity mortals rising up or the stray creature from the woods, but it's vampire land, and other supernaturals are relatively rare. If you're playing changeling, a vast majority of what you encounter will be related to the Fae somehow, with exceptions being just that, exceptions. The tricky one is Hunter, but simultaneously it's pretty easy. Feature the monsters you want, make it up as you go along, focus on the monsters you want your players to fight.

Can't really comment on the other splat but as a rule if you don't want a clusterfuck, stick heavily in-splat.

>>55099960

Crossovers generally dilute the game in question, and having a Mage or two around with any other splat is a terrible idea in practice given how easy it is for them to resolve some of their chief issues if they are feeling remotely helpful.

>>55099896
You can do that with Matter alone, m8.

>>55099971
It's easier to use a Mage as a plain character, not a player. That way you got an interesting wild card or potential arch-nemesis.

>>55100029
Even still it dilutes the game. Better to have the big strong nemesis for a group of vampires be an elder that has it out for them, especially one with strengths they don't have an easy answer to.

Mage doesn't need to be in anything but Mage, especially when it doesn't add anything. Same goes for pretty much any splat.

>>55100083
>Even still it dilutes the game
Not really. You don't need to bring in Awakening metaphysics or anything.

All you need to know is that a powerful wizard has moved to the city.

>>55100083
My stance on crossover is similar to yours, although I do like it when other splats are added in on the side. Rarely in any major role though.

>>55100111
And what does that add? Really, you've got me, because you don't need Mage to throw in a powerful largely unknown threat to the city.

>>55100126
No, you don't need Mages for that. Except something refreshing is always nice.

Also why would the Mage need to be a threat? Again, wild card. What if you need something done that even blood sorcery can't accomplish?

>>55100152
Most vampire games often have a ton of kissing the ass of older stronger vampires. What's so refreshing about having to kiss the ass of another guy stronger than you? Unless your group likes Mage I just don't see anything one could add to another game. Having an out of splat entity can often trivialize problems that take lots of effort for you to do normally. So either they completely ignore it or the out of splat thing becomes a focus for the PCs, defeating the purpose.

Suppose a mage sent a pistol and pictorial instruction diagram to thousands years before with Time Magick. (Let's ignore the poor bastard's paradox backlash) If someone in that era picked up the pistol and fired it, who will suffer paradox for using such an out-of-place artifact that is not within Consensus yet?

>>55100208
So you want to stay true to the line? That's fine. Except, again, something new and exotic can be a nice touch.

>Having an out of splat entity can often trivialize problems that take lots of effort for you to do normally
This doesn't need to happen. The Mage isn't a player. It is as powerful as you want it to be.

>>55100208
Is there any WoD game that you don't need to kiss the older's/stronger's ass?

>>55100208
That's like saying a werewolf wouldn't mix in with vampires just because it's from another line. lol

>>55100208
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. Why would the Mage have to be so powerful or skilled in such a way to trivialize the problems of the campaign? Why would you present him in such a way that any superiority he has is immediately established to the point that the players go into ass-kissing mode? Why would any narrative role he might take have an excess of focus? Another question, do you really only see things in terms of narrative purposes with no consideration for flavor?

>>55100225
Yeah, but something fresh can be made better and easier with a bit of homebrewing and inspiration. I've been known to use Hunter's rules for monster creation to make unique stuff for players of all splats to encounter.

> Mage only has to be as powerful as you want.
I totally agree with that, in fact I like it, but if you use Mage rules, they're gonna be pretty strong even if given handicaps. Wouldn't homebrewing up a witch work better?

>>55100283
A hedge witch isn't as compelling as a true wizard.

>>55100278
I've never really played Mage, so what little I know is what I hear here, and everyone talks about how they trivialize other splats. If that's not true I stand corrected. If we're talking about nerfing them down to fit the story sure that sounds fine, but then why not just homebrew it up instead of trying to bend the rules of an existing game. And lastly no, I don't just see things in narrative, I want players to have flavor, I like having flavor and changes of pace as a player. Just the people I play with don't really like any of what Mage is about. We play Hunter mostly when we do CofD stuff. If I wanted a wizard I'd homebrew something up for the job.

>>55100339
Yeah, I just don't feel it. Hedge Wizard and Wizard just seems like a distinction of power if you strip away Mage lore. And I've always liked occultish, ritualistic, and to some degree limited and grounded magic.

I'm not telling you guys not to run what you want, my original point was simply stating that you really shouldn't go overboard with the crossover, do it sparingly, and consider what your players like when you do.

>>55100391
>occultish, ritualistic, and to some degree limited and grounded magic.

You can find all of that in Mage. These are real deal wizards.
They deal in heavy ritual and mysterious symbols.

They're not D&D sorcerers that just spontaneously magic things away.

Until they do.

>>55094780
Just asking the backstory of OP's pic.

>>55100391
The deal with /wodg/ and wizards is that you'll have people talking, then our dedicated team of fuckwits will start mageposting on something tangentially related and it'll turn into a shitfight, because only newfags keep posting about it while everyone else stops arguing because they recognise the futility of it. That's it. Ultimately, you do what you think will work for your games. You will never get an unbiased answer.

>>55100425
Yeah, really shouldn't have brought them up in the first place.

I just wanted people to know the dangers of wanton cross-splating.

Kinda stupid come to think of it, I should know by now all the fun was driven out of this thread.

>>55095602
Its not breaking the game, is the ST and/or players not knowing the game and playing it wrongly.

Half the shit he says was abuse cant even fucking happen.

>>55095987
You cant change the practice of shielding with +2 reach, fuck off.

>>55099231
>>55099219
Dude you are an idiot. 1 Sin eater can wipe out all the leeches in a city by herself with an application of boneyard pyreflame if she so choose. Mages, Sin eaters and Werewolves working together would have no problem kicking the shit out of leeches.

>>55100421
>>55099329

>>55100549
Keep talking and I'll shield your ass from oxygen with my fist kid.

>>55100878

>One target at a time
>Can save to prevent any damage
>Costs 3 plasm for every attempt
>Need to be five dots in before it's useful.

I mean, the range is retarded, but it only becomes a potential threat at five dots, and even then Elders are just going to ignore it. And with a situation where potentially thousands of vampires are coming in, the Sin Eater is not surviving that. Especially if an elder is aware that someone with that kind of power exists nearby, in a total war scenario, they're not just going to be potentially fucked, they're going to be a priority target.

Unless I'm dramatically misreading the power, the Sin-Eaters who have five dots in that manifestation better be either working preemptively or be absolutely nowhere near the frontlines.

>>55101072
Boneyard is often overwanked, powerful though it is.

>>55100935
Which is within reason, however adding +2 reach to shielding to turn it into not-shielding is not.

Read far to many "oh just add reach to solve it" problems that ignore practices or the "what you use reach for sidebar"

To many people bend creative thaum to silly levels then have the cheek to complain its OP when they only have themselves to fault.

>>55095386

>Lets see: Shielding against SNF?
Step one of creative thaum is:

Declare intent.

Wtf is the intent of this? No idea. What effect does this person think being shielded from SNF is going to achieve?

>>55101287
Well firstly, without the SNF there is nothing to keep the nucleus of an atom together. The protons and neutrals will separate, freeing a shitload of energy locked away within the nucleus of the atom.

In essence, this causes a nuclear explosion as all matter within the scale area suffers complete nuclear fission.

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40KB, 217x400px

don't mind me, just posting best boy

>>55101321
This spell wouldn't be allowed for so many reasons. For starters, Shielding only applies to harmful effects. It's protection, plain and simple. And also explicitly. I haven't seen Dave's post on the Discord, but I doubt it condoned or validated using Shielding to "shield" somebody from Oxygen. And if it did, then he's in the wrong. I imagine he just said that if you did go for that, mechanically it would be like Ban. Kind of a tangent, but the same applies to this spell.

Are you offering protection with or against this Arcanum? No? Then it isn't Shielding.

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30KB, 415x650px

>>55101372
I'm sorry, sir, you appear to be mistaken.

>>55101321
Sounds like a physicist trying to do magic via science.

How fucking stupid is he huh?

>>55101321
So the intent is to create a shitload of energy or cause an explosion to damage to damage shit?

Which is it? Cos those are different practices..

>>55095777
Link please.

>>55101447
Given that the entire point of the Free Council is that they can apply Magic to scientifically discovered reality?
Such as how Death is not a constant, but cells in a body are constantly dying all of the time, and through manipulation of that you might riddle a person's body with horrific quantities of cancerous cells?

Not that dumb at all.

Magic might be able to fuck science in the ass until it cries out in agony and dies, but it can also use a scientific, refined understanding of reality to hit harder than most conceptual applications can.

>>55101456
The intent is to cease the operation of a law of physics upon all of the subatomic particles within an area.
To "shield" them from it.

>>55101460
I would, but I ditched that Discord. It wasn't good for my mental health, and there's nothing productive done in it, ever.
If you look it up, ask Alastaire, that shitcunt loves to talk about his bullshit applications of the Practices.
And while he's completely missing the point, he's read the system back to front, and has screencaps of DaveB's shit.

>>55101466
And what does this give you?

Techne, lets you use science as a order tool, Woopie, or 8 again in group casting. Doesnt change the very nature of practices and magic.

You determine intent first, then work out what practice it is, not the other way round. You dont say i'll use shielding vs SNF to do X. You say i want to do X and then figure out what practice t is. To create a silly amount of energy and cause a huge explosion is well beyond 2 dot practices, your talking maybe Making here.

And this is how you nip faggots trying to abuse creative thaum in the ass.

>>55101482
So you want to unmake the laws of physics then?

>>55101495
Are you Unmaking heat when you establish a Shield against Heat?

Are you Making gravity when you redirect the flow of gravity to smash someone into a wall?

No.

>>55101512
Shielding vs heat is clearly using the shielding practice.

Redirecting gravity to smash somebody against a wall is either weaving or ruling?

I dont get your point, both intent and practice align.

>>55101535
Ignoring the laws of physics and causing a subatomic explosion doesnt align itself with the practice of shielding..

>>55101535
And? Protection certain subject matter against in the influence of a specific force should be under the purview of Forces Shielding.

>>55101556
You can protect something from SNF all day long, but you wont get what you intend because "magic" doesnt equal science. You expect a subatomic explosion cos thats what science says would happen, but you are wrong because science is a lie my friend.

Now we have something shielded vs SNF, but not the outcome you intended. Oh dear.

>>55101372
Freddy Mercury?

Has anything for nWoD every been done for 19th Century London? I'm thinking about running a Vampire or Demon game set during that time-period. I'm figuring something involving the establishment of the Railway lines, either as an aspect of the God Machine and his Infrastructure, or the political weight curried by those who own said railway. The establishment of the Metropolitan Police would also be something interesting to cover. If anyone has any good information they'd care to share, or tips and stories I'd really appreciate them.

>>55101624
Victorian Vampire was a thing, and had a couple of books printed i think.

oWoD though

>>55101601
>I do not like your spell, or what it could mean for the game, therefore instead of merely saying no, I will for some reason state that Magic does not follow laws of causality, even when it is merely manipulating simple scientific principles
M'kay

>>55101641
Bringing scientific principles to a mage game, and crying when you cant abuse them because magic. GTFO.

>>55101651
Whatever floats your GM-fiat boat, m8

>>55101664
The intent of the spell is either
A) shield something from SNF or
B) causing an explosion/creating alot of energy.

A) he shields the thing from SNF using shielding practice, and that thing is now shielded from SNF but no explosion/energy creation.

or b) creates or unmakes the laws of physics and causes an explosion or creates energy using either making, unmaking practices.

That is how creative thaum works, intent, practice arcana, effect. The effect does not have to follow science because magic yo.

>>55101482
>To "shield" them from it.
If you aren't protecting it, as in preventing harm, then you aren't Shielding it. The way you describe it, it seems to actually be harmful.

Can we stop talking about physics and discuss something important...like the best splat for creating giant mecha?

>>55101724
Mage, prime 5, create one from mana

>>55101743
You can do it from Prime 3 with the Reach effect for advanced machinery.

Or Matter 4 to animate a solidly constructed but non-functional facsimile.

>>55101724
Purified/Werewolves. Gain several low end portable loci and shape a few spirits around them, like bones wrapped in muscle. Then pilot the damn thing down town and re-enact Evangelion.

>>55101770
>>55101743
>>55101754
Or you could be a Hunter and build one in your garage.

>>55101754
So Matter Ruling Obrimos would be best for a Mecha Legacy?

>>55101913
Forge Masters that shit up.

Make your fucking mech out of siderite.
Or just like, equip it with siderite weaponry.

>>55101931
Or both!

>>55101931
Would the Protect Shade be a Shielding Spell or something else?

I mean, the aspect of it that stops an attack dead is Shielding, but what about when it bends the energy into a pentacle and sends it straight back at the person who created the attack in the first place?

>>55101651
Dude you are a fucking idiot science definitely does work with magic or fucking rote skills wouldn't be necessary. How would you use making to create a nuclear explosion unless science told you a nuclear explosion actually exists? Don't get mad because the rules for magic allows stupid shit like this. That's what happens when a purview gives you complete control over the forces of the universe

>>55102187
What purview gives complete control over forces of the universe?

Forces is divided into 10 practices, each one gives some control over that purview but on their own purviews dont give complete control over anything. You cant unmake something using the making purview, hence its not complete control is it?

You are a fucking spastic.

>>55102500
Meant to say practices dont give complete control over a purview, they let you do whatever the practice is capable of under a purview.

Compelling practice is not complete control over any purview you fucking assbandit. I didnt say science doesnt work with magic, i said dont come along with your science shit and expect magic to have the same effects you get with science..

>>55102533
Wait so you agree that shielding SNF makes nuclear explosions?

>>55102533
You use forces to make somebody fly, science says thats not possible so you shouldnt be able to fly? No fuck off.

Science says if you get rid of SNF then things explode blah blah, but magic says "Im shielding this thing from SNF but fuck your explosion pish". Magic goes on to say if you want to cause an explosion or whatever you use x practice that isnt shielding..

>>55102555
NO i agree that shielding SNF makes something shielded from SNF, you expect an explosion cos you are thinking about science, i dotn expect a exposion because shielding practice doesnt make explosions you fucking mongo.

>>55102571
I bet you think that practices can only damage something with fraying or unraveling don't you?

>>55102603
Um no

You can use other practices to do damage, but its caused indirectly and not directly to the thing.

Thunderbolt is ruling, it does damage by gathering energy and using it, You could also use a fraying forces spell to do damage, it'd prob do something similar but has a different description

>>55102603
Not him, but the definition of Shielding quite explicitly states that Shielding spells are inherently protective. They only ever ward and protect you somehow. Whatever Supernal and Platonic shenanigans are behind the reality of the Practices, it realizes when you try to use a Shielding spell to cause harm. It does not work.

It might have to do with the Imago even. You cannot imagine a Shielding spell that causes harm. You cannot form the Imago of a Shielding spell that causes destruction and death.

>>55102642
Though a forces fraying spell will do damage to a force, not something else.

Damaging a living person with fraying is possible with Life, but you use other practices do do damage with other arcana, since fraying damages things under its purview.

I already know i know more than you about practices etc, matter 3 to do damage to a living being is weaving, since fraying matter is damaging matter.

>>55102643
But I am protecting by blowing up the abyssal monstrosity that is after me.

>>55102603
Not him, but he's right, to a degree.

Magic doesn't have conform to scientific principles at all. To quote Dave, magic makes science curl up in a corner and cry. There's no guarantee that that spell would do whatever whoever says it does because "Science!". And Shielding as a Practice doesn't mean "I separate these things" or "I keep this away from that". It means "I protect from this", or "I protect with this". Logically you might think that protection involves separation and such, but magic gives absolutely no fucks about logic. You definitely can't Shield a thing from something integral to its structure.