>Liches are always human Why? Aren't elves better

>>55091821
>why doesn't a race with natural immortality/longevity bother to become a lich

gee i dunno

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>Liches are always human

Most other races are either already immortal or not good enough at magic.

>>55091821
>what is a baelnorn

newfags can't into 2e

>>55091821
same reason why elves are immune to ghoul paralyzation

>>55091821
I wrote a story a long time back about an elf that turned himself into a lich. He was a necromancer and was attempting to master death.

Because humans are a short living race while at the same time being a race that dwells into magic. Also humans are one of the most ambitious ones since tolkien.

>>55091821
>be eberron

>entire elven culture revolves around elders turning into undead immortal rulers

>>55091866
Good liches were a mistake

>>55091821

Of course not. Elves can only become 4th level fighters/7th level magic-users, or 10th level elves.

Either way, they're never getting access to those sweet, sweet 6th level spells that ambitious, power-hungry, and easily-corrupted Men who become magic-users do.

Christ, it's like people around here have only ever played d20 and never played D&D.

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>>55091821
>he thinks non-human races have skeletons
You do know what's inside Elves, don't you??

>>55092120
>You do know what's inside Elves, don't you??

Peppermint candy cane? It's peppermint candy cane, isn't it.

>>55091821
Since when are liches always human? How would you tell anyway? Skeletons don't have pointy ears.

>>55092160
>Skeletons don't have pointy ears

not all of them obviously, duuuh.

>>55091821
dracolich?

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LICHES FOR THULSA DO—waitaminute.

>>55091847
first post best post

>>55091821
Humans in most fantasy settings have incredibly high ambitions compared to most due to there relatively short life span. How to fix short life span to carry out a 200 year plan?
Undeath

>>55092059

I don't see why. Looking at their lore they are really limited in scope.

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THULSA DOOM DEMANDS LICHES

>>55091847
underrated

>>55091847
This.

You'd think human wizards would try to turn themselves into elves instead of liches. Lichdom really, really sucks in a lot of ways.

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>>55093726

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>>55093726

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>>55094789

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>>55094811

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>>55094851
This guy sort of counts.

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>>55094873
Dracolich

>>55091821
The only lich I've ever encountered was an elf. Then again, he was a weird elf. Years after becoming the archlich he slaughtered all of the elves on the plane for some reason.

>>55094932

So badass.

I think our group got one of these thrown at us as a miniboss and it was super lame.

>>55091821
NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer had a Cloud Titan Demilich. It was a big-ass floating skull.

>>55092120

Penis, what is inside or should be inside elves is a Penis.

>>55092120
2 dwarves?

>>55094036
Elves are for rape, though, and that also really, really sucks in a lot of ways.

>>55095937
A wizard who's powerful enough to turn themselves into an elf probably doesn't have much to fear from rapists.

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>>55096116
>He thinks he can beat the cock
Typical elf logic.

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Give me demiliches
I need good Demiliches art

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>>55096269

>>55091821
Liches can be other races. Look at neverwinter for example where there's that elf lich

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>>55096269
But Steve IS a good lich.

This is why Druids are the thinking man's wizards

Reincarnate yourself as an Elf
Then 18th level and extend your lifespan tenfold
Boom 10,000 year lifespan, you still get to keep your dangler, and you don't have those weird interdimensional stone golems coming after your ass constantly

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>>55092659
>>55093726

Yeah, see it's kinda gotta be "THULSA DOOM DEMANDS LICHES", doesn't it? Because "LICHES FOR THULSA DOOM" sounds like a political endorsement. "Liches agree, Thulsa Doom is the sorcerer we want to Make Atlantis Great Again!"

>>55097670
Fuck you, I'm voting Nagash in 2020!

>>55091821
>>55091866

/thread

>>55091821
>Aren't elves better at magic than humans?

Every D&D campaign setting seems to disagree with you.
What takes centuries for elves only takes decades for humans.

>>55096436
Wizards can use Clone, Wish and another spell to become immortal and eternal. Liches are those wizards who didn't complete their studies and who got bonked on the head one too many times.

>>55099838
If I want elves to be the best at magic I'll play Warhammer, thank you.

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>>55099906
But elves aren't the best at magic.

>>55092120
Don't delude yourself.
The skeletons have an inside man for every race

>>55091821
What do you think an elf skeleton looks like?
>no ears to tell the difference

>>55091821
Because other races have their own versions. Elf Liches are called Baelnorn

>>55099906
I'm pretty sure WHF humans can match High Elves when using Dhar. Nagash easily trumps Teclis in magical might.

Nothing but earlier gen Slann would best him.

but what about alhoons?

>>55100251
Dhar is like using raw nuclear power, it unleashes great energy, but it's self-destructive. High magic is much better and also save, humans can't even comprehend it.

>>55100251
Nagash is the Grombrindal of human wizards. Using him as a baseline is retarded.

>>55100302
Qhaysh is a more coherent force, yes, yet Dhar has matched it in potency.

It's one of the reasons why humans even pursue it so adamantly, to have a grasp of magic rivaling that of the High Elves, in rawness if not understanding.

>>55099884
Also, the ones that seek the path to demilichdom, in order to ascend beyond this shitty existence.

>>55094036
I figure it has more to do with the fact that elves think too differently from humans. The subconcious thought process is too alien. Liches maintain the same thought process as they did as mortals.

>>55091821
D&D has elvan liches. Baelorn or w/e they're called.

>>55100251
Nagash is the outlier among outliers. He's also had the benefit of living much longer than a normal human.

Anyway, being good at dhar is technically not really a sign of true magical mastery. Dhar takes less understanding and more straight up willpower, and, no matter how you use it, it's always self-destructive and destructive to the world around you. There are no 'good' dharic spells; by the nature of magic, using the Winds in such a way always results in effects that are detrimental, perverse, and destructive. It offers more raw force but it simply can't do many of the things Saphery can do - it can't heal, for example, and I don't think a single protective dharic spell exists.

Users of the dhar may get a magic missile that can pump out 4D6 S5 hits, but they lose out on versatility.

>>55100251
Caledor Dragontamer and Nagash are probably around the same level. The Great Vortex is honestly more impressive than The Great Summoning.

>>55101497
Invocation of Nehek heals.

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>>55102126
Mechanically, yes.

Fluffwise it's just the necromancer in question pumping their undead full of more animating energy, causing them to get back up or ignore damage. It doesn't actually heal anyone.

>>55091866
Baelnorn are specifically GOOD elven liches, though, and they don't really work the same way.

I'd guess that elves don't become liches because generally speaking they respect the experience of death and the functions of the universe, and understand why things are the way they are. They also have much longer to come to terms with their eventual demise.

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>>55091821
That's because eleven liches are called baelnorns, dwarfs can't in to magic and other races aren't important.

LICHES FOR THULSA DOOM!

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>>55096269

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For all the stick 1e AD&D art gets, Dave Trampier got the lich down perfect. Also, I didn't remember this, but the 1e lich's alignment was listed as "neutral (evil)".

>>55096197
Serves him right for making a party of only women. You can't trust them.

>>55091821
Only humans are crazy enough to split their soul in an extremely painful process and forfeit their soul simply to attain immortality on material plane.

>>55095904
>the only things a dwarf hates more than anything is two dwarves
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW

>>55094662
wow so quirky and random! lol sharing this on facebook

>>55107747
xD

>>55101497
Doesn't really dissuade the fact that Dhar can, and has, matched Qhaysh in magical might.

Though I'm sure nobody will disagree that the latter beats the former in terms of versatility.

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Speaking of lichdom, was Acererack human? I completely forget. I definitely like to see a nonhumanoid lich though. Like a really ambitious goblin say fuck it, lets go with Necromancy.

>>55107747
Hi, reddit

>>55108468
>was Acererack human

In the original Tomb of Horrors, he definitely was a human.

>>55091821
elves can't become liches
they don't have skeletons

>>55108468
Human, but then it was Cambion because it related to that Demon he had bound that you find later on.

>>55096116
It's impossible to tell how much of the elven population was born elves and how much of it is secretly composed of centuries old wizards with twinky rape fantasies.

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>>55091821
Humans make the best wizards so naturally are better (and cooler) liches

>>55100060
Underrated.

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>>55096269
I don't know what a demi-lich is, but you can have this.

>>55091821
Elves live long enough that they aren't concerned with dying.

>>55114092
that's actually a pretty good rendition of an annoyed demilich.

Favorite liches?

Kel'Thuzad- sexy voice, quippy, has emotions, still alive!, great raid boss, has a kitty cat

Arkhan the Black- best part of the end times, is also hilarious on purpose, highest body count during the ET, made out with Neferata, probably has a sexy voice

Nagash- just the hugest asshole, bros down with team order during the ET,

Acerak- Tomb of Horrors reveals how creative he is in his pursuit of dickishness

Voldemort- probably the most talented wizard in the setting yet is also a giant dumbass. His whole deal makes no sense BUT he did bang Bellatrix so thats cool. Lost due to a technicality.

>>55114092
>>55114168
Thats my husbando Archlich Kel'Thuzad from Warcraft. Someone threw his corpse in a magic jacuzzi so hes extra powerful.

A demi-lich is like a lich that basically gives up on their corporeal form because they are to busy doing research. Generally they keep a hand or their skull, think Acerak from DnD

>>55114235
I played WC3, you stuff his ashes into the urn of King Terenas Menethil after Arthas goes full retard and accepts death and decay as his lord and saviour. Ends up destroying a whole Elven Kingdom and half a city to use fancy well water to revive him in undeath.

Was a neat campaign.

>>55114187
Lich, from Dota 2. He's all Ice and Frost focused, but he has a god-tier voice and great lines.

>>55114263
frost puns best puns

>>55114259
Yes, you throw his ass in a magic jacuzzi. Then he pops up even sexier than before.

IMO the Human and Undead campaigns are the biggest events in "modern" Warcraft including the events of WoW et.al.

>>55091821
Liches aren't even that good as undead. Better than other low-tier undead like(vampires, ghosts, etc)

High tier versions of these undead are scarier(demilichs, early generation vampires)

The scariest undead are the ones with a deep connection to the life-force or the negative energy plane. These are the unelementals.

The truly most powerful wizards have neutronium golem bodies.

>>55094811
I'd go down on her for a wad of cash and a bottle of jack. but if I see a worm I'm outta there

>>55114381
Considering it also introduced the Orcs as noble savages who were tricked into drinking demons blood......twice, take it with a grain of salt.

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>>55096269

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>>55091821
How about a gnome lich blinged out with a ridiculous amount of gems?

>>55091891
>short lives
>ambition
This is probably the best summary possible. More arcanely specialised races that would have an easier time of becoming a lich would see Humans as being full of endless ambition. Or maybe fail to, but they'd be idiots for failing to see that.

The only other short lived races are not only less arcanely skilled, but I'd probably rate an orc for instance as being relatively unambitious compared to a human. Sure, orcs vie for space in their various hierarchies, but they're still thinking inside the box when they do that. They wouldn't contemplate a course of action that would for instance render the entire existence of their tribes social hierarchy into chaos and laughable pointlessness. For that reason, they're unlikely to transcend the very nature of their own existence and become something fundamentally not an orc. Same with goblins. They're all too petty.

>>55114621
Kobolds are arcanely skilled, though. They breed fast and are ambitious to a fault, so logically speaking their race should produce the most liches.

>>55114722
Naw cowardliness and worshiping baphomet/Tiamat makes a race kind of unsuited to lichdom.

Humans tend to be pretty morbid overall, we all have this weird obsession with death. It stands to reason why the most necromancers are humans.