Which game has the most toxic fanbase? The kind of players that

Furries... aka 3.pf players

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>>55051054

>>55051054
it's not the fabases, it's the dedicated mongers. Every system has them. And they're fucking terrible.

I put my money in DnD, any edition. There was a thread a few days ago where they were claiming that their precious game was so amazing that it would be easier to convert 5e to a sci fi setting than run literally any already existing sci fi game.

>>55051054
Probably dungeons and dragons. Specifically edition specific die hards.

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>>55051123

Toxicity in general? World of Darkness, easy. Rules discussion specifically? Probably any DnD but especially 3.5/PF I guess.

>>55051142
I saw it, definitely happened. Pretty sure it was just a troll, though, not an actual belief.

>>55051054
3.PF, hands down.

>>55051054
Just 4chan in general

>>55051054
Considering how far up their own asses they are and the way they screech autistically whenever 3.5/PF is mentioned, I'm going with 5e D&D.

>>55051054
3.pf because they've been trained to be pedantic rules lawyers and munchkins to protect their bloated novella-length character sheets rather than attempt creativity or trust a gm over a 3rd party errata'd SRD

bad thread tho

>>55052617
I blame it less on players and more on paizo's terrible diction on these things, it's as if they consoder rules debates a part of the experience.

I fear it's training my group to hate fun

>>55051075
FPBP

>>55051123
/thread

>>55052576

Seconding this.

Although even the highest RPG community toxicity doesn't even compare to League of Legends.

I had some good conversations, with them, but overall 90% of the 3.PF fanbase is rotten.

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>>55051054
most toxic fanbase? warhammer 40k

it has a tendency to attract neckbeard fascists for whatever reason

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>>55051054
DnD, any edition, and any game derived from DnD (Pathfinder).

>Player: I want to do a thing!
>DM: Well, here's a million ways the rules say you can't do this simple thing that you should obviously be able to do, and 2 million ways more if we wana get technical and rules-lawyery about it.

Fucking hell, I've had more fun in shitty freeform anime games than in anything based off DnD. 300+ page rulebook needed for basic fucking RP'ing, no thanks.

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>>55051054

I feel the younger generation miniature wargamers comes in to mind.
Its a bit unfair to compare them to the old guys, when it was basically just historical or GW back in the days.
Today its all about being the biggest of fanboys though. Annoying as fuck if you ask me, because its hard to argue a autistic kids that can't see any other perspective than "I hate every company besides my special snowflake..."

>>55053001
If your DM doesn't follow the rules as a guideline and tries to be strict about them, them he is shit.

>>55051054
>/tg/ in either event.
You can't tolerate what the hive-mind deems badwrongthink on the board

>>55051054
dunno about rules but man discussing lore with 40k dudes is like fucking a fleshlight made of sandpaper

>>55052789
For a long time that was the case, but at my LGS, it seemed like the most toxic gravitated towards Warmahordes, while the players who stuck to 40K were generally cool dudes.

...but I know that WMH's popularity was starting to decline back in '13. Not sure how it's faring now, but if it's been losing popularity, I'm sure the toxic ones would be jumping ship back to 40K, if only to find more players who haven't outright refused to put up with their shit.

>>55051054
>Which game has the most toxic fanbase?
The rage-gawking game. They'll give you dozens of insane "alternative" answers in order to force their obnoxious game into the conversation, because that's what they do, which is why they're the only real answer.

Easily /hwg/

In my experience, Magic the Gathering.

>Assaulting people for disagreeing with them
>Smoking in public
>Terrible hygiene
>Steals peoples' cards for other games to "save them from the mistake of playing a baby game"
>Takes credit for good things other people do
>Literally cheat the system by signing up people that don't exist to inflate store numbers for WotC
>Try to run stores out of business that don't even carry MtG, because they carry a game that isn't MtG, and that's heresy

>>55051054
not a specific group in general but I'm always appalled at the amount of card theft I hear about with the various TCG's.

I understand it's a bit harder to steal shit from Wargames and tabletop games but it's such an astronomically high amount of cases that it can't possibly be entirely coincidence.

Aside from that, tourney players.

I'm not talking competitive players, or even people who like really cutthroat games, I'm talking about people who treat tournament play like it's a job. The kind of player where literally every goddamn game is a "practice game." It's their hobby, they can do what they want, they're just really annoying to play against in my experience because a lot will want you to use whatever weird packet and missions they're playing with 6 months from now and some will get pouty if you dont bring a typical netlist that they think they'll see.

I remember being a Guard player back in 5th and guys would always want to play against me so they could test against leafblower, only to find out that I ran nothing but platoons and leman russes. Those were fun times.

>>55053963
>>Steals peoples' cards for other games to "save them from the mistake of playing a baby game"
>>Try to run stores out of business that don't even carry MtG, because they carry a game that isn't MtG, and that's heresy
what

Storytime?

>>55054441
>Up until this year, at one of the LGSes in town, any time a tournament for a non-Magic card game was going on, Magic players would show up to "watch"
>They'd hover uncomfortably close to the people playing, breathing down their necks, and feigning interest in the game while insulting it with everything they say
>If they players weren't paying attention, or were focused on their game, they'd snatch up some of their cards
>This kept going for a while
>They got more bold
>A couple of guys were playing Yugioh
>A 30-something year old Magic player ran up, mocked them for playing a "baby" game, and grabbed one of the players' decks
>Thought that since the store worker at the counter liked Magic, he'd help out
>Threw the guy's YGO deck at the employee
>Haven't seen that Magic player since
>Haven't heard anything about cards being stolen in the area anymore since
>Employee started to lose interest in MtG and pick up a little interest in YGO afterwards

And the second one, I have two examples for, which I'll post in a reply to this

>>55054821

>For years, there were two LGSes in town
>Store 1 is a very relaxed place with a slight focus on TCGs, a slight focus on miniatures games, and a heavy focus on board games
>Store 2 is a highly competitive place with a focus entirely on TCGs and fightan vidya
>Both had active MtG communities that were major contributors to their income - there was a group of a few guys who'd buy a box or two each of every set, no matter how bad, and a case of a good set
>One long-time employee at Store 1 was a Magic-loving grongard
>He practically worshipped MaRo, said there was no bad Magic set, and was one of those always-buying-a-box guys
>Except, he'd never buy from the store, even with his employee discount
>They carried other card games, and he frequently expressed dissent about it
>This year, he opened a store of his own
>A "safe space for Magic"
>No other card games allowed
>Between spreading rumors about other games' players and offering daily Magic tournaments with slightly cheaper entry fees, he drew in 90% of both Store 1 and Store 2's Magic players
>But that wasn't enough
>There are still stores that do non-Magic
>His regulars have been going around, trying to put people off of other games
>A rumor has started that most of the YGO players in town are sex offenders
>A lot of Magic players buy it, and have started going to Store 3
>A rumor has started that most of the Pokemon players are thieves
>A lot of Magic players buy it, and have started going to Store 3
>And so on
>Store 2 is on the way to closing
>Store 1 is staying afloat thanks to me getting a few more people into Warhammer, and a surge of new college students picking up board games
>Store 3's owner is still mad, because Store 1 carries YGO, Pokemon, and FoW, and he can't stand that

Second example coming in another post

>>55054896

>Another town, this one also has 2 LGSes
>A large, high-budget LGS, and a small mom-and-pop shop
>High-budget LGS has outright banned non-MtG card games, and mom-and-pop shop stays afloat by being the most active FoW community for miles
>High-budget store, despite not allowing non-MtG games to be played, sends people in to check the prices at the smaller store and purchases the exact same product, charging less on everything, and sending people over to advertise
>They pride themselves on that
>The FoW community at the small store raised a few thousand dollars in charity money
>The larger store claims that it was their Magic community, and that the small store can't even afford rent
>Any time they find someone particularly cancerous, though, they advertise the other store, and outright tell people that they want to sabotage it
>They claim to be the only gaming community in the area
>Despite dozens of stores within an hour away

>>55054821
>>55054896
>>55054926
>and then the whole image board stood up and clapped

>>55054944
Feel free not to believe it. I know most people on here won't. It just felt good to vent.

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40k

>autistic obsession
>compulsion to make everything 40k-related
>rages whenever someone tries to change the topic

Had a friend that became that way. No idea where he's at now.

>>55054944
ebin reddit meme rite xdd

get out you fucking fag

>>55051054
>Which game has the most toxic fanbase?
Shadowrunfags.
The people that like the setting are obnoxious to the point that they don't ever bother to hide the fact that they are using the plot to bitch out about their miserable life, to the boredom of the rest of the people in the house or shop.
They also have audacity to believe that their sob story is unique and original in any sense, ignoring everyone.

>The kind of players that you dread having to have a rules discussion with?
Gun or katanafags.
Both are the same horse turd, with only slight difference of the origin of the shitter.
Instant red flag that tell everyone not to waste more time interacting with such a person.

>>55051054
>Which game has the most toxic fanbase?
Exalted. Exalted threads are a cesspool of toxicity and stale arguments that everyone's had a million times before. If you play Exalted, you know the twelve standard arguments by heart already and can quote them at will, and yet they keep happening. People get really fucking autistic about their pseudo-anime demigod games.

>>55052789
Might be that a lot of the Fascists see Fascist themes either ignoring, nor noticing or not caring that it's satire.

>>55052789
Because autists don't get the irony in 40k and think of the Imperium as heroic.

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DnD. Worst fanbase ever. Powergamers and people so obsessed with the ruleset that they rather convert other game settings to use the dnd rules.

Infinity

>>55055028
>fatty
>ever being that cute
Only in fantasies

In my experience it's been pathfinder, not even because of the game itself but because of the way the cryptic diction of rules encourages system mastern over fluid use of it as guidelines, players bitch any time the GM fists something because it means "fuck our choices"

I wish we'd learned another system, I want to give 5e a chance but everyone already knows PF and doesn't want it to have been a waste

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>>55052789
Sargon is a classical liberal centrist. He is opposed to far left and far right authoritarian collectivist extremist fascists.

>>55051054
pathfinder and world of darkness seem to have the worst communities here, followed by 40k.
as for real life, i can't say because the people i game with are pretty much fine

>>55055028
To be fair, 40k has stolen ideas from everyone, so everything else just kinda slots in nicely into the Plagiarism 40000.

>>55055180
>using the plot to bitch out about life
Dude, if you have a retail horror story and want to turn that into running a heist on a distributor, I would be 100% down to play that shit. Sounds cathartic as fuck.

>>55051054
Magic, but if we're talking about "do not EVER discuss rules with this fanbase" it's a tossup between any White Wolf game and 3.5. Sometimes you get reasonable people who know what they're talking about... and then the rest of the time you get utterly retarded "ROLEPLAY NOT ROLLPLAY" fuckheads who will immediately start shitposting the second the game's mechanics are talked about. While usually spouting dumbass bullshit like "MONKS ARE OVERPOWERED SO I BANNED THEM" or "CODZILLA DOESN'T EXIST IT IS A DEBUNKED MEME"

>>55055028
Fat girls are always drawn with smoothe bellies, no stretch marks, thin faces and arms, and look like they probably don't smell despite the fact that they probably can't wipe well with their reach.

>>55051054
People who like something obnoxiously are the worst

It's like how browsing /tg/ is a non-issue, but telling people you like /tg/ is.

Other than that the people I've had the most issues with are those who like the popular generic cartoons(adventure time, SU, rick and morty, etc) simply because 1. They obnoxiously like those things and 2. Those story structures really don't work for ttrpg's

Gamewise it's d&d 5e

>>55051054
For rles, 3.f, for fluff, Exalted.

>>55055700
Sargon is a fucking twat that doesn't even know where he himself stands.

He described himself as "liberal left" yet supported Brexit and Trump.

>>55051054
>Which game has the most toxic fanbase?
Fate.

>The kind of players that you dread having to have a rules discussion with?
Pathfinder.

>>55056245
>Claims to be left, votes right.

It's almost like he's a centrist

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>>55052789
>>55055700

>>55051054
>The most toxic fanbase
Around my FLGS? Magic. Hands down.
>At any given tournament SOMEONE's cards will be stolen
>The single worst smelling group, even beating out the D&D, 40k, Shadowrun, and Anima players
>Argue heatedly with the judges during tournaments
>Actively deride other card games, loudly, including swearing within earshot of children playing Pokemon.
>God forbid you mention the stack, they will chew your ear off about how it's properly done, then get in an argument with one another when they reach a certain point.
My solace is riffle shuffling a set of poker cards during the tourneys, just to watch them flinch, and see how many turn to look.

>The kind you dread having a rules discussion with
Wargamers in general, only because some of them only half-read what their models actually DO, and then bitch you out when you point out a word or two they missed, changing the purpose of the model entirely.
Those types are also usually the ones who bring what they think is a winning list to a tournament, get surprised when they lose hard first round because the actual rules make that list bad, and just pack up and go home in a huff, throwing the tournament out of whack.

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>>55051054
I can't ever remember a rules dispute in it, but the old Middle Earth CCG, the one with pic related cards, was the worst tournament scene I've ever been to in my life. Just incredibly poor sportsmanship that was the norm, not the exception.

From way back, a tournament I went to.

>Guy I'm up against plays this really exotic, snowstorm based deck, the sort that has a real killer combo and is worthless if he can't put it together.
>Lose game to him, he got his combo together, me unwittingly aiding him setting up the environment.
>Starts crowing immensely about how stupid I am for not magically foreseeing what kind of deck he'd run, especially when it's a very uncommon one.
>Kind of pissed.
>Warn the next guy he's set to play what kind of deck he runs.
>Guy #2 scoffs and says it won't matter, because he's not a loser like I must obviously be.

>>55052745
League of Legends has NOTHING on heroes of the storm levels of toxicity.

>>55051123
This.

>>55056364
Well, did snowflake lose the next game or what?

>>55055476
underrated

>>55055028
>didnt refer to herself as DM
she's a-okay

>>55055700
Lol communism technophilic, they literally starved their people because the science didn't go with the ideology.

>>55056375
Heroes of Newerth
Git Gud

>>55052789
The main faction is a hellhole fascist theocratic empire, and they're sold as the heroes. I imagine that attracts the occasional undesirable.

>>55055264
In fairness, how long has it been since 40k was satire? Rogue Trader? Look at 8th, it's essentially dark/heroic fantasy in space.

>>55051054
I'm not sure.

In my mind it's a toss up between 40k "fans" who don't actually play 40k, and D&D fans who insist on the use of whatever specific edition of D&D or pathfinder they're all about who will expound at length about how you should totally use that system for every type of game.

I think the former is winning.

>>55056970
The Imperium of Man is not fascist, it is feudalistic and oligarchic.

I'm hearing a lot of the idea that the worst kinds of fans are the autistic screechers in any group. I'd agree with this. However I'd state PF players are the largest group of people who refused to change on principle ive met

At the same time 5e attracts a LOT of normies, who do harmless but irritating shit like constantly shitpost attention/karma whore stories on leddit and Facebook. The number of 'my Bard seduces the dragon xDDDD" and "hey look at this Mini I painted or art I drew pls give likes" pisses me off. There's also the retards everyone mentions who think that 5e can be used for anything I saw one retard unironically say it could be used for Warhammer Fantasy RP

I say this as an avid player.

>>55057024
It still had some when Chambers was Overlord, although a lot less.

>>55051054
Magic, and there's a clear reason why. Other tabletop games require more of a social contract between the players. You have to be invited to a D&D group or a board game night. With tabletop wargames you have to agree to a scenario and a rule set. Magic has no equivalent filter to keep shitty players out. Unless you get banned from the store or arrested, you can play Magic, and there's a lot of bad behavior you can get away with that falls short of those.

>>55057049
>a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
It has most the hallmarks and iconography. It's not structured typically for fascism, but it's attitudes and methods are both very fascist. It's quite deliberately a satire of fascism as an ethos more than as a structure.

>>55056164
>responding to a 3 hour old post with s fetish picture to let everyone know you're triggered

>>55053963
This, MtG players at both the stores in my area have become synonymous with "theives who don't shower." It's shame the stores can't afford to lose them, the community would be so much better if they were purged from it.

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>>55057191

>>55056375
Odd my heroes experiences have been rather comfy compared to league or dota

>>55057182
The thing is that the imperium isn't a good faction but has many good people within it, making the faction the closest to a good faction and thus by default many consider it the good faction

Even while we have eldar, and tau and necrons and the thousand sons

>>55056553
Not sure, didn't pay attention.

>>55057211
>thieves who don't shower
How are people stealing shit and at least not ending up in handcuffs or at worst, getting their asses beaten by some guy and his friends for stealing their shit?

>>55057506
>Why can't a hobby filled with many of the socially inept not stand up for itself
I agree these guys should get beat. I'd help. But there's a lot of tabletop dorks who wont stand up for themselves unfortunately

I'd like to know if OP genuinely thought there was a legit answer beyond D&D

>>55057739
DnD only seems the worst because it's the most popular

>>55057962
The DnD community sticks out as bunch of elitist snobs that hate every other system (despite only ever having played dnd), or a bunch of comic-con-going will-wheaton-watching snorg-tee-wearing "nerds"

>>55057999
> 'Faux nerds'
Oh the horror.

>>55057447
Everyone knows that the interex are ye good guys.

>>55051054
They've all got their share of sperglords but I'd definitely say 40k has the most of them, if most likely because it's the largest. I quite enjoy 40k too but good lord if a whole third of the fanbase doesn't make it difficult sometimes.

>>55055700
why's green left

D&D 5e . It's brought in a lot of new players who will argue up and down that it's the best edition when thats the only edition / Game that they have ever played.

>>55055765
We actually used to do that with Leverage. Knock over CVS, fuck up Walmart corporate, whatever. It made wage slavery a little bit more bearable.

>>55057182
>I don't know what fascism means it's just whatever I don't like

Weiss zchart

>>55056245
My dude, even Jeremy Corbyn voted for Brexit. The Left wanted out of the EU more than the Right did.

>>55051142
He is not joking, I was in that thread.

>>55056970
>>55057182
Fascism is an economic system before anything you imbecile, and the Imperium of Man clearly fails that definition. It's more like feudalism, with individual lords controlling planets.

Fascism is about a merger of state and corporate power, it's essentially Socialism with the trappings of private property still intact, where business/corporate owners retain their positions but are de-facto simply bureaucrats unable to act without sanction from the state. Compare this to the Imperium of Man where the entire private sector is run by a social class of independent traders who can perform commerce literally at will because 2000 years ago someone gave their ancestor a license. It's feudalism, not Fascism.

The fact that they stick eagles and angels and skulls on everything is literally just aesthetics, you might as well say that the Roman Republic was fascist because it had officials who literally carried fascii around. It wasn't. It was a Republic with more or less total freedom of enterprise. Hell, even the existence of the AdMech defies this, because the AdMech isn't fully integrated into the Imperial government, they're their own branch who can (and do) act in defiance of the State.

Mussolini would've shot himself before allowing this to happen.

>it's attitudes and methods are both very fascist
Listen to me, name a single "attitude" or "method" that is common between the IoM and Fascism that isn't also between the IoM and the Soviet Union or Maoist China. You're just describing totalitarian governments as a whole, not any individual system. "Fascism" is a word with an actual definition, no matter what the low-IQ liberal retards who educated you say, and the Imperium literally isn't it.

God I remember when we used to teach this stuff in schools, now people just think "Fascism" means "anything that isn't a faggot riding a dildo on a rainbow towards a brown future of national debt," this is the sort of thing that turns people into /pol/acks.

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>>55056245
>Being a "Liberal Leftist" and supporting Hillary Clinton
>Being a "Liberal Leftist" and supporting the EU
If you did either of those things, you aren't actually a Leftist, you're a Neoliberal stooge of a corporate-owned government who voted for expansion of their power instead of for acceleration towards the failure of Capitalism and its inevitable replacement.

Tactical voting for an actual Leftist in 2017 means destroying the Neoliberal establishment, and promoting figures who actually represent your ideas. It also means escaping the clutches of gigantic corporate-owned political entities if you can. Brexit was an absolutely left-wing option, and the only people who disagree are low-information retards who think the EU is the next Comintern when really it's just an excuse for German bankers to run an entire continent as their own private currency manipulation scam.

I don't remember reading anywhere in Das Kapital that the solution to exploitation is to let Brussels run your country. The dialectical answer to the EU is the exact same as the answer to the Third Reich: It must be destroyed.

>>55051244
How is WoD toxic? I thought they're super liberal.

>>55052789
can't believe i used to watch this fucking retard swing the bat at SJW pinatas and think he was in any way intelligent or cared about anything more than money

Aaand the thread devolves into politics. Classic /tg/.

>>55051054
>Which game has the most toxic fanbase?
Magic the Gathering hands down, it has a low barrier to entry and you can't just kick a dude out for being that guy like in an RPG. All they do is yell at you about the rules and then immediately after break the rules and possibly steal some cards.

>The kind of players that you dread having to have a rules discussion with?
With this stipulation I'd change my answer to 3.PF, specifically Pathfinder. Tons of shitty expansion books and so many broken rules. At least Magic has it's rules streamlined, but in PF you basically have to argue with a dude telling him why he can't play a level 3 kitsune with 8 different overpowered abilities because "the rulebooks allow it"

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>>55056245
Leaning a certain way politically doesn't make you a slave to party leaders, you know, and you don't have to agree with 100% of the left or right to be left- or right-leaning.

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>>55056892
Yeah, when the CEO of the company running the game is this guy, I think it automatically wins.

>>55051054
3.5 first, WoD a close second

>>55063177
>I don't remember reading anywhere in Das Kapital

Considering how every large scale attempt to follow Marx' roadmap to Utopia has resulted in various flavours of oppressive dictatorship, from the occasionally benign like Cuba to the greatest mass murders in history with Mao and Stalin, it might be time to start questioning whether he really knew how to make the world a better place. Even more so when we consider that there has been some changes in the social order since his time, like letting people at large vote, and kings having to obey parliament instead of the other way around.

>>55063447
You'll hear no dissent from me, I for one favor Bakunin's analysis far better than Marx. He was absolutely right in predicting that Marx's "Socialism" would result in a class of bureacrats owning the proletariat like cattle. Whole thing was obviously a scam from the beginning.

Then again, when they tried it Bakunin's way, the exact same thing happened a'la Revolutionary Catalonia. We don't talk about that though, too embarrassing to get rekt by a doofus like Franco.

The point however is that if you ARE a Marxist, which most serious leftists are for some reason, you cannot possibly defend voting for a neoliberal. The entire point is that when Capitalism inevitably fucks itself then there will be a Socialist revolution, this makes "moderates" and "reformers" the ENEMY, not allies, what you WANT is for a far-right psychopath to rise and destroy the country so that you can move to the next step in history.

Really wish someone would explain this to those morons out on the street. Hurr durr we're gonna smash gabidalism by knocking over trash cans gais, ignore 1934, there's definitely nothing that could go wrong here.

>>55052789
This.

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>come to /tg/ to politics troll
>people on /tg/ actually understand politics

>>55063749
Welcome to the rice fields, motherfucker.

>>55063198
Not sure if troll or actually serious.

Bravo, anon

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>>55052789

>>55063198
They're liberal kind of toxic. Also, even if you're fine with sjw crap in books, I don't think anyone can tolerate the fanbase composed of emos, mall goths, people who actually larp vampires IRL, hamplanets with fetish for gay vampires and all sort of dysfunctional abominations.

>>55063514
Most marxists (myself included) don't really endorse the accelerationist politics you're describing, primarily because the movement from far-right lunacy to socialism is far from a certainty. Neoliberalism's stranglehold on the developed world is not to be underestimated, and it should be noted that most staunch advocates of neoliberal ideology are thoroughgoing centrists; they detach themselves from politically-unpopular causes or figures (see: criticism of Trump coming from bourgeois economists and leading figures of the private sector) so that when those political instances fail, they can truthfully claim to have (nominally) been against them all along and so retain the goodwill of the people.

Socialism in its ideal form would never be allowed to exist in one country, or even a smattering of countries, precisely because of the all-encompassing nature of the neoliberal economic order, which does not radiate out from a single focus, but is rather a complex web of social, institutional, and economic relations between countries that constantly seeks to bring more states into its fold and recapture or destroy those that attempt to leave it. It is not a weave that will inevitably come apart if one pulls hard enough on a certain thread, but rather a fabric that must be attacked at multiple angles, and with comprehension of its total structure, in order for change to be effected.

I think that there are a lot of bad ones, but I would honestly have to say YuGiOh. It wasn't just the standard catty behavior, but that people would swipe stuff from me as well. I am not saying that MTG and 40K are great or anything, but I think that when it comes to actual theft things get worse.

>>55056364
>Guy #2 scoffs and says it won't matter, because he's not a loser like I must obviously be.
>Implying you're not a loser

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>>55064923
>He actually still believes in international socialism
Okay, welcome back to reality now, it is INTERNATIONAL socialism which has failed, and NATIONAL socialism (not that kind, or wait is it) which still exists.

Your way is the one which necessarily fails. Marx was fucking wrong, how often must we see this happen before you acknowledge it? You will never have global socialism. It will not happen. As we have seen, you can unite half of the landmass of the Earth together against Capitalism and it will still lose because, as Marx said, Capitalism is necessarily BETTER at creating new infrastructure than Socialism, so they will always outrace you no matter how many countries you unite.

What you must do is come to an accord, say "we will have Socialism in OUR country, and if you leave us alone we will not spread," as the Mondragon corporation has done. If you attempt to incite rebellion in other countries they will simply kill you. The time of great social weakness where socialist revolutions were possible is over. The USSR helped crush National Socialism in Germany, but was itself then crushed by the bankers of the United States. One useful idiot crushing another. Face reality. Global Socialism is dead until every society VOLUNTARILY adopts Socialism, or until the system crashes via accelerationists and the result is Socialism.

You cannot fight a machine by sticking your fingers into its gears, they are steel and you are flesh. But you CAN destroy a machine by overclocking it. That is our intention. Yours seems to be to feed more human meat into the gears in the vain hope that they stop being capable of pulverizing it all. Newsflash: We have 80 years of evidence that that isn't the case. My way will work, your way is suicidal. I like starving Kulaks to death as much as anybody but maybe if we try it my way, there won't be 40% of the population who resist the change and have to be exterminated to achieve the Socialist utopia we both desire.

>>55065090
Forgive me, in my language we use "global revolution" as a synonym for Trotsky's perpetual revolution, it is meant to be the same thing.

>>55063749
And it's a good thing because that's why sjws and /pol/acks avoid this place.

>>55051054
3.PF, the ultimate intersection of normies and grognards.

>>55064824
"Oh, I'm so handsome and interesting in my sparkly darkly wish fufillment universe." Now if you'll excuse me, plebs, I have to go role play my 6'8" barbarian, Bronan, as he wrestles a nubile slave girl away from the maw of a serpent god with his bare hands.

We're no better, anon. It's still wish fulfillment, just with a different brand name.

>>55056375
what the fuck?
the game where you can only talk with your team and you get banned for being a dick?
what the fuck are you smoking

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>>55065249
Well we (/pol/) mostly avoid you because you're strictly neutral, and you tend to resist SJW influence without us. The few who come here come for (you)s and not to try and convert people. You aren't like /v/ who needs our help to fight off the kikes, you just seem impenetrable to everyone. It's like arguing against a brick wall, it doesn't matter what anyone says, you fight to the death every single time, and nothing is accomplished.

The way we figure is that you guys fought off Christian moralists like ten years ago, so you'd probably fight us off too, but you'll also probably fight off the SJWs. All we want is for things to stay the same, and /tg/ is literally the single most unmoving board imaginable. /po/ has more fluctuating culture than you guys. I was around when Colonel Negi was still doing Silent Hunter streams, and literally nothing has changed except the indistinct subject matter.

/tg/ is holy ground. It's like Highlander, we don't fight on it. Anyone who does is just baitposting. It is factual that the best political discussion happens here though, purely by chance.

>>55065090
But an accelerationist politics holds no guarantee of success, and no small number of truly disastrous possible outcomes. Comparing the consequences of failure, an accelerationist program that fails, for whatever reason, to actually overheat the machine will result in a drastic exacerbation of the issues already present, and likely the creation of new ones as well (including the very real possibility of wars of annihilation). I don't advocate necessarily for global as opposed to national socialism, but I do maintain that the latter is increasingly difficult to maintain given current technology and the changes in relations it brings with it, and as such believe that an ultimate goal of international socialism is desirable in the long run.

Perhaps it is so that the program of international socialism simply continues to feed people to the meat grinder of capitalism. But it is also true that capitalism would continue to consume in absence of such a movement. You yourself admit that the capitalist machine is fast to adapt; what tenet of accelerationism makes it that such a program will necessarily outstrip the ability of the machine to adapt and repair itself? The accelerationist program accepts an increase in the rate at which the world is consumed by the machinery of capital in exchange for an uncertain outcome, and that is a tradeoff I, personally, am not willing to make.

>>55065359
>All we want is for things to stay the same
So you guys are actually centrists and moderate conservatives? That's cool, but it surely doesn't that way when one browses /pol/, but I guess it's just the fact that there's tons of pure shills and trolls.

>>55057999
>people like things I don't like
>I'm literally an insufferable tabletop hipster
>But I can still sneer at them for following trends to try to seem cool.

>>55065538

Pacifism is one of those things that sounds great, but can only work when everyone else agrees to play nice. The instant one dude throws a punch, you're useless and irrelevant.

The political fighting is the same: moral high ground is a nice thought, but if the ref isn't going to stop the other side from using dirty tricks, it's the filthiest motherfucker in the room who wins. Every time.

>>55065443
too many edgy fucks are joking about accelerationism there's no way it's going to get off the ground.
I give it a year before there's a GEICO commercial where they articulate the project of Accelerationism, wink into the camera, and tell you how much money they saved switching to GEICO.
It's already practically a meme right now. You have to imagine how much of a joke it seems to corporate heads.

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>>55065538
We WANT things to stay the same, but many do not think that pure conservatism is possible. So in response to the fear of change, many adopt a revolutionary attitude themselves.

This is the great failure of trying to understand /pol/, you think that we are conservatives, or that we want to roll things back, but that isn't how we see it. We see it as a step forwards and to the side. A diagonal step, an En Passant, a correction of history. /pol/acks are naturally Libertarians, but we are pushed too far by the Left, so we decide to become revolutionaries. If anything history has shown us is true, the Right always defeats the Left in open battle unless there is outside interference, so allowing things to become violent favors us. If the Left were simply patient and waited, they would win, but they never are. They're impatient. They have to start violence and destroy things because it is their nature to destroy things. Then we can act in retaliation. See 1932. It took one year for Hitler to slaughter every Antifa in Germany becuase Right Wing Men are the only kind of men. Leftists aren't men. They're women, basically animals.

>>55065359
I may not agree with what you (/pol) says but you have the right to say it and I agree that /tg should be political neutral ground, I just want to talk about MtG

>>55065668
Essentially, yeah. It's interesting, but I think it has too many close-to-the-surface consequences to be palatable for most folks who aren't theory wonks.

>>55065443
I agree absolutely that accelerationism holds no absolute guarantee of success, but I consider this better than the 0% track-record of International Socialism. You have failed every single time, we at least can claim that we have never held power, so we don't know whether we are total fuckups yet. You cannot make any such claim. We have seen Internationalist Leftists gain power and the storm of ineptitude and failure that surrounds you is cringeworthy.

If we fail, then we all have to live as slaves. But the only reason we are in this situation is that you ALREADY failed. You ALREADY fucked everything up, and now we are picking up the pieces in the only way that is possible, you seem to genuinely believe that you need to pull a global revolution in order to pull everything down. Do you not realize the world that we live in? The countries you're trying to overthrow have nuclear fucking weapons. The people in charge of those weapons are insane right-wing imperialists.

What I want is a gradual revolution, not a violent firestorm. I want people to realize through example that our way works, and I have ample evidence that we can go uninterrupted if we do not attempt armed revolution--again, the Mondragon Corporation. It exists. It is real. We have already won the first step in the battle, but what in the damned hell have you won? Where is the internationalist success story? If things get worse and people settle on Socialism, they might accept it voluntarily. If we attempt a global conversion or, to be frank, any forceful conversion, we will fucking die. There is no other version of events. We cannot win. This is guerrilla ideological warfare. You do not win by smashing your teeth out on the enemy's table-corner over and over, you win by being subtle.

>>55063402
That must have been somebody using his name. Right? There's no way an actual CEO was calling people tryhard faggots for killing him in his own video game. Right?

>>55052789
>Sargon
>example of a neckbeard fascist
Wut. Just... wut.

As for 40k having the most toxic fanbase... Couldn't say anything one way or the other to that.

>>55065359
>/pol/ finds a really long-winded way to explain to us that we're all autistic
Preaching to the choir, man-

>and that's a good thing
...uh. Preaching to the self-loathing abusive alcoholic that he's awesome just the way he is?

>>55057447
Arguably. But Good People is both subjective and relative. A lot of the "Good People" in 40k wouldn't be good elsewhere.

>>55061578
Most Green parties tend to be left, at least in OECD democratic nations.

>>55065359
>holy ground
Yes. This is why Tolkien posting is best.

>>55066082
Your seriously suggesting that moral relativism is a method of thinking that should be applied to Chaos? Get ye gone heretic.

>>55062772
Find a dictionary that disagrees. I picked Merriam-Webster because it was the first google hit.
>Inb4 Dictionaries Suck, everyone is wrong but me!

>>55063064
We can checkbox the definition above. I don't think that the economic meaning is common usage as much as the totalitarian support for an authoritarian government headed by an autocrat (who is at least theoretically the head of state, even if the high lords do more). I can agree that it doesn't meet strict definitions that refer to structure, economics, etc. but that's not what people mean when they say Fascist.

More importantly the creator has explicitly said that the IoM is supposed to be a satire of Fascism. This was back when the HH was a satire of Paradise Lost, so how true that holds is debatable depending on how much stock you put into the old lore.

Neither of the alternate totalitarian governments openly admitted that the entire point of government was to relay and enforce the autocrat's rules.

>>55066285
Moral relativism, yes. Applied to Chaos, no.

>>55066455
Lorgar just accept noone likes you.

>>55054896
I believe you because this exact thing is happening where I class my FLGS to be

>>55054896
>>55066473
Yeah, similar drama played out around here a couple years ago. And the cycle is starting anew now from the way things look! (the historically MtG agnostic spot has begun pushing their FNM really fucking hard, free pizza and crazy pack payout...just because? Seems to work for them)

>>55051054

3.pf hands down.

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>>55051054

I'm going to go with 3.PF, AND 5e, but only because the 5e community is primary composed of the 3.PF community.

>>55057182
>that exalts nation and often race above the individual
Not really, the IoM focuses more on dying for the emperor more than anything else. More theocracy than nationalism.
>and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader,
IoM headed by a senate, that's a far far cry from a dictator.
>severe economic and social regimentation,
Nope and nope. Ad mech and rouge traders completely break the first part, and the second part depends entirely on the planet.
>and forcible suppression of opposition.
yep, but that's litterally any totalitarian state.

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>>55052789
>t.faggot

>>55065359
>because you're strictly neutral
fucking this. i want politics of either side to stay out of my hobby.

>>55052789

Do you mean ACTUAL fascists who support the nationalization of key industries and non-globalist Marxism or just "anyone right of me who thinks patriotism isn't a vice"? I need to know if you're a retard or not.

>>55055250

The Sidereals did nothing wrong.

>>55069738
>ACTUAL fascists who support the nationalization of key industries

Where does someone who opposes the privatisation of things that are currently nationalised fall?

>>55066350

No, what people mean when they say "Fascist" is "people we don't like who are patriotic and not commie NEETs like us who want other people's stuff." The people who say "Fascist" and don't actually mean "Fascists" are morons, you included.

>>55063514

Speaking as a far-right nationalist, that's because they're controlled opposition run by globalist currency manipulators, the same as Richard Spencer and his ilk.

I long for the day when you and I can stare each other down honestly, with the free sun gleaming off our bayonets, and settle things the way humans were meant to, hewing the chaos to come into our own images.

>>55065249

A good part of /pol/ is using LARPed viewpoints as a sort of rhetorical jousting lance to keep opponents at bay. Make /pol/ uncomfortable enough for normies and nobody will want to try social engineering there to enforce an artificial liberal paradigm via moderation the way you see everywhere else on the internet. There are more of us here than you know, we're just sticking to our real opinions here. For instance, I'm a Jew and most of my relatives are bankers and lawyers. On /pol/, I rail against people like me constantly.

Is it weird that this thread makes me really cheerful and enthusiastic about an American Civil War 2 despite knowing it's what George Soros wants?

>>55069799

It honestly depends on what those things are. Both parties are fucking guilty at this point. Ironically it's a big flaw in Democrat marketing, trying to pick off Trump supporters by pointing out that congressional Republicans are corrupt. Which they already know because they tried to fuck Trump over during the primaries and got BTFO.

>>55069989

>It honestly depends on what those things are.

Telecommunications. Telstra being privatised was a horrible mistake. Now there is a private company with the entirety of the physical telecommunication network and no incentive to improve as everyone needs to deal with them.

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>poltards hate people getting triggered by different opinions
>poltards always and always shit up threads by getting triggered by different opinions

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>>55070061
>Liberals wasted away the mining boom
>Fucked up privatization constantly by selling state assets to their buddies
>Fucked up NBN by being cheap fucks and giving money to their buddies

Utter cancerous party, More Rudd would've been better than Onion King/Trumble.

>>55056375
Yeah but does HOS have company-approved hate speech towards the disabled which said employee was NOT disciplined or fired for?

>>55051054
/tg/.

>>55052789
Sargon is a crazy person who has no idea about any kind of political theory what so ever. I'v seen the guy go from libertarian, to full blown ethno fascist to borderline Marxist. To this day i dont get what people see in him, and how fucking stupid do you have to be to take him seriously

>>55070085
/pol/ and sjws are one and the same, the only diference between them is the version of political edgynes they use

>>55069967
can someone explain to be why George Soros is considered the devil by so many right wingers?

>>55070187

He funds country-destroying revolutions to make money via currency shenanigans.

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>>55051054

Apocalypse World and Dungeon World....

Fucking hipster flavor of the month shit with their 'moves' and other rules light fuckery for a 2D6 system meant to focus on open ended and quick play. Yet everyone (who plays it) more or less either plays a supa tuff lesbian gun nut ninja or a beta squared sage cucked type with 'soft skills; or some shit. And every fucking time, every fucking time I have gone to do the personal connections shit they force PCs to have, some faggots in the party got to have it all how their characters take turns sticking it in each other's poopers, and they somehow get some special move like 'reacharound action' for this.

Fuck these games and their SJW hipster players bases.

>>55070251
dude, most capitalists do that. The right has their very own soroses, all of africa is in a state of constant economical war due to this. You may not like him but saying he is the only one is fairly stupid, and making him out to be the devil is even more so

>>55070265

His stated goal is an end to all borders, and his ideal society is essentially a stateless world run by a neo-aristocracy of financiers. He's an anime villain in real life.

>most capitalists do that

Oh, go graduate and then we can talk, that's bullshit. Africa is fucked because the natives can't get away from family/tribe collectivism and when they made the white people leave the Chinese moved in.

>>55070260
You say that it's the SJW game, but it's clearly you who is triggered.

D&D. Basically, any edition but 3.PF is by far the worst. WoD is close by.

The reasons behind the toxicity o D&D are quite simple. It's non-focused, wide and popular game that requires literally no effort on entry, "does everything lol", and on top of that has aesthetic quality of cartoonish kitchen sink fantasy that panders mostly to underage nerds and cringy metalheads - the taste for such things just usually comes with other deficiencies. Add to that the fact that it is hightly gamey, number crunching and has tendency to categorize everything into stiff label boxes which is a feed for autists, and tadah.

WoD is bit different case, since it's faily specialized game, BUT again the aesthetics and themes it does are aimed at the target that, generally speaking, consist of people that are often rejects and weirdos in worst meaning of those words - otherkin, cringy goths and vampire fags, furries, etc.

The opposite of the spectrum are tightly focused, niche games which themes aren't on the usual nerdfaggotry level. Examples I'd point out would be Pendragon, Runequest (in its Floranthan variety), The One Ring, Paranoia, some (but not all) PbtA and similar games. Firstly, they require already a lot of love for the themes they present to enter. There are no random people. There are people who share love to a certain thematics and style of gaming. Mentioning "gaming" in the proper sense of mechanics and rollplaying it's always secondary to the roleplaying. People are chill, on the same level, and nobody wants to shit in they own small nest. That's why there are no big arguments and shitstorms in those online communities... or even in the threads for those games on fucking 4chan.
Secondly, the themes and aesthetics those games go for, aren't attracting problematic people, contrary to mentioned bad examples.

That's why you don't usually encounter underages, open degenerates, spergs and those guys in communities of those games, while they are so rampant in D&D and WoD.