Does a paladin lose his powers while he's mind controlled

Nope. It's not the brain the matters, but the spirit. So yes, an evil entity could use the paladin's abilities for malicious ends. No, the paladin absolutely wouldn't fall if it happened to them.

>>55041630
Depends on the edition.
>>55041763
>No, the paladin absolutely wouldn't fall if it happened to them.
They would lose access to their powers until they repented in Basic, 2e and 3e, anon.
There is specifically lines addressing it.

>>55041763
I'm not really talking about falling, I just mean like would the divine powers temporarily disappear until the paladin is in control again? Why would a lawful good god lend its powers to the evil entity?

>>55041817
>lawful good god
Paladins were not empowered by gods until 4e came out, and it is a fluff option in 5e.
Meme less, OP.

>>55041856
Wait where do they get their power from then? I thought they were like clerics.

>>55041630
No.
It's a thing.
Posession, based on the kind may vary.

>>55041894
They are/were empowered by the cosmic force of Good and Law.
This only changed in 4e when they became a part of the Divine Triumvirate, and is referenced in 5e as a possible background explanation.
What you are confusing is Forgotten Realms fluff of everyone needing a patron god, and so most paladins honored Tyr, Heironeous, Illmater, et al.

>>55041630
Depends on how they are controlled, because that is a really lose term.

I would say that a paladin who is mentally manipulated using magic ala charm and whatnot does not keep their powers while they are controlled. A paladin that is sufficiently controlled might lose them permanently/semiperminently as if they had been tainted if some horrible eldritch exo-evil shit decided "fuck this guy in particular." I could also see a paladin who did BAD SHIT while under control choosing to supress his own powers until they atone for similiar reasons. The lucky thing for paladins is that in most games they are typically the hardest people to bend the will of or manipulated magically/etc.

On the flipside, often times when pallys are full tilt turned by something, they turn into really powerful evil entities because narrative. Antipaladins, dread lords, death knights, etc, etc.

>>55041939
Ok so if I were playing in the FR setting I would be correct, then? Paladins would mostly worship and get their powers from Tyr?

>>55041958
No, they would honor the god and use it's tenets to inform their decisions, but they would not gain power from them.
The point of the paladin was the classical hero that is not bound to any greater calling than doing good in the land.

>>55041989
Alright thanks mate.

>>55041630
No, Paladin only loses his powers when he willingly goes against what he believes for selfish reasons

>>55041630
I would remove his powers temporarily till he gains control of himself because he isn't serving Good and so Good won't power him. No, I wouldn't make him fall or strip him out of his powers after that because he wasn't himself.

>>55041630
Old editions of D&D specifically stated that a Paladin falls if he is mind controlled into committing an evil act (he doesn't fall as hard and can repent later, but the point still stands)

>>55041989
>No, they would honor the god and use it's tenets to inform their decisions, but they would not gain power from them.
Wrong. Paladins in FR need a god to grant them power. Every paladin order is dedicated to a god, and there are no atheist paladins.

>>55042172
1. You don't know what Atheist means
2. You should read the rules

>>55041989
all divine casters in forgotten realms need a deity, even rangers and druids. or at least that's how it was in 3e. it's dumb but there you go.

>>55041856
That's just blatantly false.

>>55041630
No. A Paladin falls only if he breaks his code(whatever it may be) willingly.

If he's mind controlled into doing it, or is put into a situation where he literally can't avoid breaking his code (like some That GM stories you'll see here) they don't fall either.

>>55041630
Depends on the setting.

>>55042221
What the manual says doesn't matter, Forgotten Realms states that all divine casters powers come from a god you have to pray to

>>55042172
>acknowledging the existance of divine beings but not praying to them is being atheist now
Wut?

>>55041630
>Does a paladin lose his powers
No.

>>55041630
>>55042077
I'd say it depends on what kind of control we're talking about. If the paladin has been made to perceive their teammates as demons or undead or whatever, the pallypowers still work since the paladin thinks they're doing the right thing. Still, smite X only gets its bonuses if the teammate actually is X.
If we're talking something like demonic or ghostly possession otoh, the powers are switched off. The pally obviously failed a will save pretty hard to have their body used as a meat puppet, but the possessing entity will have no access to the paladin's special powers.
I could see an argument for allowing a lawful or good entity possessing a lawful good paladin to be able to use SOME of the powers, but that's a highly hypothetical scenario.

I see things like suggestion, charm, or domination as the greyest area, where the paladin might be compelled to knowingly act against their better judgement. On the one hand they don't have a choice on a failed saving throw, on the other hand it should cause some repercussions.

In either case I wouldn't say the paladin falls and has to go through the whole atonement thingy. That's way to steep for one (or even ten) failed saving throws. But the cosmic powers that power the paladin's powers shouldn't continue to not react at all either.

I'd propose a mechanic by which a possessed or mind-controlled paladin grows weaker and as such becomes less desireable to control, and possibly also deteriorates physically, seeming to grow older and more frail unnaturally fast to tip off others that something is wrong. When the possession/control ends the paladin could then regain their strength/powers over a similar period of time as the possession lasted.
That way, mind-controlling a paladin can still be useful but is not a win-button or good long-term strategy, and the paladin has to go through a period of reduced effectiveness without falling.
I think that's a fair compromise.

>>55042172
>>55042249
You lot need to read Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide.
EVERYONE needs a patron Deity to not end up on the wall of the Faithless. Paladins, Rangers, and some Druids are not empowered by gods, but by other overarching forces.
>>55042306
You need to prove it now, anon, since you are the one who is claiming I'm wrong (even though I know you can't).
Come on, post some screen rips of what the paladin fluff in the phbs say, I fucking dare you.

>>55041630
Only temporarily

>>55041630
I'm gonna assume older edition D&D that actually had Paladins that fell and shit.

Probably depends on the control. If the Paladin hits any "Fall" conditions they'll use their powers, but be able to regain them through atonement. This would probably happen if the controller used the Paladin to commit any serious alignment violation, or if the Paladin's alignment was changed (By being operated via possession or as actually came up in a game I was in, Symbol of Persuasion off a caster of different alignment) The more subtle forms of control would leave the Paladin empowered, but also probably with enough free will to not do evil shit directly even if they were manipulated to evil ends, which is usually not considered fall-worthy.

>>55042890
sorry dude, you're just wrong. i know it's retarded.

>Unlike clerics, druids and paladins, Faerunian rangers do not have to choose a patron deity until they reach 4th level and acquire divine spellcasting ability (without a patron deity, a ranger cannot cast spells).

>Like clerics, the druids of Faerun receive their spells from a particular patron deity, always a deity of nature or animals.

>All paladins of Faerun are devoted to a patron deity, chosen at the start of their career as paladins.

that's from the 3e setting book. the 5e SCAG is more coy about rangers and doesn't say their powers come from a god, but it does say that explicitly about paladins.

>Some people are warriors of superior virtue. They exemplify a host of traits that folk consider honorable, just, and good. These warriors aspire to be the best people they can. When such a warrior also has great devotion to a particular deity, that god can reward the faithful with a measure of divine power, making that person a paladin.

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>>55042890

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>>55042472
underrated