/osrg/ — Old School Renaissance General: Sidney Sime Edition

>>55003792
>city of never

What is this picture from? A novel or a movie?

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>>55003801
It's one of Sidney Sime's illustrations of Lord Dunsany's stories, specifically The Book of Wonder. The story in question is "How One Came, As Was Foretold, to the City of Never".

>>55003555
I have the PDF, I'll clean and upload it this evening for you and that other guy that asked for it in the PDF share thread.

You:
>Use autismgold to buy a cheap retroclone
>It's shit
>Try another one
>It's also shit
>Try a new one
>Also shit
>Cry yourself to sleep

Me:
>Use money earned at work to buy 5e
>Expensive buy good
>Cheaper in the long run

When will you learn?

>>55003837
Oh my, I've read the The Book of Wonder a long time ago and completely forgot this. Never saw these illustrations before though. Thank you.

>>55003792
>>55003837
are these public domain yet, do you know?

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>>55004007
>Never saw these illustrations before though. Thank you.
That's what we're here for, Lucius Junius Brotus.

>>55004035
Sime died in '41, so presumably, yes they are, since 2011.

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How do you do magic staves in your game, /osrg/?

>>55004098
awesome.
Been sourcing weird-fantasy pictures for a while for a corpathium-inspired project.

>>55004134
they're like scrolls with multiple spells in 'em. Staves are cool 'cos you can also just hit people with them.

Tinkering with some houserules to streamline my games a bit more.

Was thinking of doing away with modifiers outside of those granted by ability scores and class abilities.
All the situational stuff will boil down to if you roll with (dis)advantage.

good idea, or too likely to have the opposite effect by inciting argument with the DM about if you should have (dis)advantage or not?

>>55004134
Magic staves are clubs that unleash their magic when they hit something. And it has to be a REAL hit without pulling punches. Can your injured party member survive the damage needed to trigger a staff of healing? Is your magic-user a bad enough dude to hit himself in the face just to activate a staff of teleportation?

What system does thieves best?

>>55004381

Sounds pretty normal.

I kind of wanted to do something similar with combat, giving fighters best chances to hit by having them get more attacks or extra dice but with less modifiers. I think there is something very pure about rolling a d20 vs AC and just looking at the die to see if they hit, no adding or subtracting. Obviously this makes the system lose some granularity, so fighters would need additional abilities to compensate.

>>55004399
5e.

If you're not a poor autist.

>>55004381
The problem is that (dis)advantage require a lot of work to balance. If a magic item gives a +1 to rolls but you give advantage instead, you've made that item a lot more powerful. Inversely, an item that gives +5 to rolls but now gives advantage is kinda gimped.

>>55004399
The LotFP way is pretty neat.

>>55004476
iirc advantage on a d20 is about the same as +3.
>>55004421
Of course, if advantage stacks you've accidentally invented dice pools.

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I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place, but here is Fantasy Wargaming from 1981, a real slice of OSR. It was published by a company that normally focused on historical wargaming but were interested in cashing in on the new fantasy fad. I would compare it to AD&D, with the same walls of charts and rules for almost everything. Pic related sort of says it all. While the system in the book itself is excessively complex, it's full of inspiration and resources for old school gaming. It served me well for many years back in the 80s.

https://mega.nz/#!KskhGRIJ!3nqeLSX9cowgJA_LljWfahTwtQqhe9Nx16ecyQGTDEM
https://mikemonaco.wordpress.com/bruce-galloways-fantasy-wargaming/

>>55004629
>a real slice of OSR
Technically it's just OS, without the R.

>>55004580
>iirc advantage on a d20 is about the same as +3.
It's about +3 1/3 if you look across the whole d20 range. In actuality though, your target numbers are generally not at the extremes (where you only have to roll a 3 or over to succeed, for instance), and the effects of advantage are more pronounced the closer you get to the middle of your range. If you assume a bell curve of target numbers similar in shape to the bell curve of results you get rolling 3d6 (though stretching from 1 to 20 rather than 3 to 18), you end up with advantage being worth something like +4 1/3. That's probably a bit on the high side though, as I don't think you see quite the same attenuation towards the extremes as you do on a 3d6 bell curve. But if you're rounding things to the nearest full point, I'd say that +4 is closer to right than +3 is. If you're rounding to the nearest half-point, it's between +3.5 and +4, and I'm not sure which to go with.

Why do so many people abhor DCC when it's clearly more creative than all your B/X clones?

>>55005272
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most retroclones know this and mostly just fine-tune things they personally don't like about B/X, but DCC takes things a fair bit too far and doesn't really count as OSR at all.

How much do you think a riding horse would cost in an Industrialized society compared to a 1920s motorcycle? How much would gas cost?

>>55005272
It's too crunchy and requires you to reference the book too often, which is antithetical to what many people are looking for in OSR (and regardless, it's antithetical to OSR's strengths, I would argue). I actually think DCC has some cool ideas, but it's not what I'm looking for when it comes to a game I actually want to play.

>>55005363
Just from google, haven't ever owned a horse, or been near one since I was a kid.
>The average thousand-pound horse who relies on hay for all their forage typically eats fifteen to twenty pounds of hay per day. Most hay is dispensed in flakes; however, the amount of hay in a flake can vary greatly, depending on the size of the flake and the kind of hay.

You can probably go from there. Really depends on how difficult getting gasoline is compared to getting stuff to feed your horse. People kept using horses after motor vehicles for a while (still do for some things).

>>55005363

In the '20s, you could buy a horse from anywhere $35 (for a plow horse) to $200 (low end race horse).

A Harley Davidson W "Sport" cost $485 in the '20s.

Though bear in mind that upkeep on a motorcycle is quite a bit less than that of the horse.

>>55005363
Gas cost about 20¢ a gallon in 1920. This was considered abhorrently high and people bitched about it.

Hay was $16-$17 per ton, of which an active horse, as noted, eats approximately ten kilos a day. Thus the horse costs roughly $60 per year to fuel, omitting oats and stabling.

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Hey guys, it's me again, the Scrollcasting guy. I've updated some of the Dungeons and Dark Souls house rules; notably, I've smoothed out Parry and Dodge to be a lot simpler and cleaner, and made spells of 5th-level and above 1/day no matter what you do. I've also clarified some things people asked about, included an FAQ and "Patch Notes," and fiddled around with the systems in some whiteroom environments.

Current issues I'm looking heavily at:
-Dexterity is too good. I'm looking for good solutions to this.

-Whether or not to give Fighting Men extra Stamina and Experts/Rogues/Thieves/Whatever extra Bullets, giving them really firm niches as front-liners and Parry specialists.

-What, if anything, to do with Clerics, since they occupy a weird niche between M-U and Fighter, and since spells are equipment and not caster-specific.

Let me know if you've got any suggestions or ideas!

Not to feed the troll, but I've seen this guy mention this a bunch of times now.

Does anyone actually spend money on retro-clones without having tried them out first?

I mean, I can understand paying for a print version of something you already use, but when I can literally name a dozen free retro-clones off the top of my head, it seems like no one would actually pay money without knowing what they're getting into, ya know?

>>55006554
I tend to get my things straight out of the trove like a scoundrel, but if something's not there and it looks interesting and is cheap, I sometimes pick it up. I tend to not regret those sporadic purchases.

Not that the troll cares. The troll probably bought his 5e books legitimately too, like a chump.

>>55006554
I normally give the PDF a read, and then buy a copy if I think I'm gonna use it at the table. PDFs are a pain to use on the game night, printed books are way easier. And if you're gonna get a print version, you might as well get the nice version.
Plus, it's a tiny indie scene of enthusiastic amateurs putting stuff out for the love of it. Worth rewarding with my money, you know? IDGAF about WotC or white wolf, but I can throw some cash at the dude who made veins to say 'yes, more of this please'.

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Has anyone tried using LOTFP thief skills with the traditional skill sets of a thief?

I mean scrapping bushcraft and architecture and use the original skill table as a guideline.

I was thinking of going with something like: Climb Sheer Surfaces, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Delicate Tasks, Open Locks, Hear Noises/Find Traps, Decipher Text and Sneak Attack (+2 to hit at 1 skill point).

Any thoughts?

>>55005986
So, do enemy's have a negative armor class and attack bonus? I think the Rally Pool system will make fights feel visceral and implies a sort of combative back and forth. I think you should clarify the line about wisdom and constitution bonuses to Stamina when you're explaining the mechanics. I like it and it seems way more streamlined.

>>55006554
I have a few older DnD books but those I just have for the aesthetics, I don't actually play them. I'd like to buy physical copies of LotFP and Veins of the Earth but I dunno.

>>55006724
So do other character classes still have the ability to use those skills?

>>55006554
I try them out, and then I buy them if I want them for convenience and/or art.

>>55006554
>Does anyone actually spend money on retro-clones without having tried them out first?
Yeah, actually; I bought the large majority of my OSR stuff before these threads were even started, so it was mostly purchased blind or based on reviews.

That said, the only thing I regret buying is Seclusium of Orphone, which really is unmitigated dogshit. Then again, I can't say Raggi tricked me in any way; it said Vincent Baker right there on the cover and I bought it anyway. I feel like I got trolled, but trolled fairly.

>>55006694
Ah, see, I agree with you there, and that's pretty much what I thought everyone was doing in general.

Though, I wouldn't consider something like Veins of the Earth to be a retro-clone. It's more like a supplement, but not one I consider consider to be restricted to the OSR. Seems like a buy that could work just as nicely for 5e as for B/X.

This guy was specifically going on about people spending money on retro-clones because they're supposedly "cheaper", but it seems to me like "free" would be a better word on the whole.

>>55006745
>Negative Bonuses
No, Enemy Armor Class is like Sine Nomine, and so is Attack Bonus - it goes from +2 to +9, with +9 being "bad" and +2 being "amazing." Enemy Weapons can affect this in a negative way, like, a Wyvern Tail might have a -1 on top of a Wyvern's attack bonus of +5, making the attack bonus a +4, but the enemy will never go into the negatives. I'll clarify that in my next version.

>Rally Pool
I hope so. I stole it from a 5e homebrew and gave them credit; it might need some fine-tuning but I think it suits the OSR a lot better simply because of how low the damage is, and how much rougher fights will get.

>Clarify the line about wisdom and constitution
What do you think is unclear about it? I'm seriously asking, not being snarky. I thought "the total of either Con or Wisdom bonus +1" was pretty simple, but if you have a better way of wording it, I'll take that.

>>55006745
>do other character classes still have the ability to use those skills
This is the crux of the matter.

>>55005986
This may be more of a concern for slow-ass text games online, but having the players roll everything and roll multiple results seems like it would take a lot more time. Also made me wonder- do you telegraph attacks like 'the Orc Great Knight raises his sword over his head' to indicate in incoming Power Attack (or whatever) and then let the players decide parry/block/dodge?

Also are you Necropraxis or inspired by that blog?

If you're gonna have classes you may as well make them distinct and extra resources sounds good to me. But going classless and having stamina and bullets be tied to equipment decisions sounds good too.

Remove clerics, but maybe make faith and adherence to dogma provide benefits for all characters who want to curry favor from the gods.

>>55006824
Fair enough. Should have known my experiences wouldn't be universal.

I'm glad that most of what you bought hasn't been shit.

>>55006828
Oh, I see what you mean about the Wisdom and Constitution bonus; you mean in the quick-rules section. Yeah, I'll fix that next version.

>>55005272
I don't.

DCC gets a lot of flak around here and that's fine, especially because it really isn't compatible with a lot of other stuff without a ton of heavy lifting, but it's definitely a good system on it's own merits and one I enjoy playing a ton.

I just don;t love DMing it because it;s more work for me, both because of spells and magic items and in published adventures and because bringing back in an XP for loot system of advancement would be more work than I want to put in.

>>55006846
>spoiler
I'm not. I have a blog, but it's relatively empty of useful content, so I don't shill it. I don't like posting things I'm not at least relatively confident about, and as personal preference I don't like posting a blog full of fluff or simple tables. I like my content to be meaty. That's not a judgement call on other people, mind, there's plenty of useful tables and I like reading other peoples' fluff for ideas, I just prefer my own work to be a bit more crunch and a bit less fluff. Plenty of people already cranking out really good fluff.

>players rolling everything taking more time
Not really, honestly. At least, I don't think so. Maybe at the beginning, but once you get into the groove, I think it gets a lot faster.

You also don't actually have to tell the players what the guy's Attack or AC bonus is on their roll; you can just say "it hits" after they tell you the total of *their* roll and do math in your head. I prefer doing it this way because then players have to calculate the actual bonuses themselves and learn and make tactical decisions.

>telegraph
Hell yes I do. I describe everything before they roll. I'm a wordy motherfucker, though, so I can see that not being to everyone's taste; a simple line of "the orc raises the blade with two hands" or "the orc raises the blade with one hand" is probably all you need.

>Classes
See, I'm torn on that. I love classes, I do. I'm not a huge fan of classless systems overall, because I think giving players a niche to work within is pretty cool, and it helps players understand "this is what I do, this is what he does, this is what she does." I'm not really sure here if this is a place I want to hew towards Dark Souls or towards the OSR.

My personal homebrew setting uses classes and mixes some of these abilities into them rather than being default assumptions (for example, Rally is one class's special thing), but that's not for everybody, so I'm not sure.

>>55007010
>>55006846
>Continued

>Remove Clerics
Honestly that's my current default assumption. I'm considering having a...god, fourth?...resource of Dogma to cultivate and spend, but that's still firmly in experimental, and too many resources might bog play down substantially.

Dogma in my current experiments would basically be a slow-to-gain resource you get for doing certain things your god asks of you, which you spend to reroll bad die rolls. It's hard to gain, so you're encouraged to save it for when you REALLY need it.

I'm not wild about it. I might also tweak it so that you can spend Dogma to do Turn Undead or Lay On Hands or something, but I'm not sure I like that either. There's potential here, but it's shrouded, and I don't want to have so many resources that players lose track of what they can and can't do.

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>>55006745
Nope, the skill system would just be for thieves. Elves and dwarves have their normal detect-secret-doors and stonecunning abilities.

I was considering a generalized 1 skill per character background thing that might give them a 1-in-6 chance to do anything difficult associated with their background as well, but that's not really part of the actual thief skill system.

>>55005272
DCC is pretty popular though, even here.

>>55005986
Do you have arquebuses/rifles/muskets at all? Your parry rules only mention firearms as a whole as parry weapons, which would make high damage firearms the best parrying weapons.

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>>55006724
>>55006844

Do you think other classes should keep the 1-in-6 chance to perform the thief skills?

>>55007010
You've inspired me. If I ever run with a barbarian class, or have a viking berserker tribe that my players can learn shit from, they'll have rally points (probably renamed to something else) as an ability as long as they're not wearing armor.

>>55007355
I sort of left this up to the GM, in order to keep the rules mostly system-agnostic. Ideally, yes; I'd personally rule that the more powerful the gun, the more Bullets it consumes, just like Bloodborne does. I might also rule that a gun *requires* Bullets to parry but always provides a higher bonus than a Rapier or a melee weapon; that makes firearms flat-out "better" Parry weapons at the cost of a limited resource.

Not sure. There's also an argument that high-damage firearms *are* the best parrying weapons, because you're choosing to sacrifice "using the gun for damage" in exchange for "using the gun as a shield."

>>55007539
I get what you're going for here, but should a two-handed gun be any better at parrying than a club or a staff?

Yes is a perfectly acceptable answer, but it does sacrifice a little bit of intuitiveness for the sake of the game system.

>>55007584
Two-handed weapons parrying is already a problem because you explicitly can't parry with a weapon you used this turn, so I'm not actually sure.

Going strictly by Dark Souls logic, there's no two-handed weapon I can think of that can parry on its own.

Going off my own feelings on the subject, yes, absolutely, because a gun doesn't give you Rally, as it can't melee attack. Trading "Rally" for "Better Parry" seems entirely acceptable to me.

>>55007539
>>55007584
I realized that I assumed you can't parry with a greatsword or staff etc. but that that was just an assumption I made.

I guess if staves and muskets/arquebuses do the same amount of damage, then they would be equally good at parrying (not counting the use of bullets.)

>>55007655
Yeah, basically, I don't feel there's any specific reason to give "guns" special treatment. They're just "another form of parry weapon." If you specialize in "guns" you're trading "consistent healing" for "safety," so it seems OK to me that you're really good at parrying, while a guy who whacks his enemies with a greatsword is going to consistently be healing up all the damage they do to him but also taking a lot more damage.

I'm totally willing to hear arguments to the opposite, though.

>>55006724
I mean, all the traditional Thief skills are still present, sans Listen (which if you really wanted could be just use the Search skill. It's honestly kind of a dumb skill tho.)

Climb Sheer Surfaces: Climbing
Hide in Shadows: Stealth
Move Silently: Stealth
Pick-Pocket: Sleight-of-Hand
Open Locks: Tinkering
Hear Noises: Search
Find/Remove Traps: Search/Tinkering
Decipher Text: Languages
Sneak Attack

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>>55007752
>Hide in Shadows: Stealth
>Move Silently: Stealth

I guess the main thing is that I like "Thieves" more than "Specialists" and I want my thief skills to reflect that. I feel like the original skills are more evocative and less weighted in terms of the benefit of picking certain skills. I like that Stealth is split up, especially because I like to run thief skills as abilities beyond the capability of normal men (i.e. Hide-in-Shadows vs. hide behind this barrel).

Additionally, I'm not sure how much players are actually gonna get a chance to use Bushcraft if I we don't end up playing a ton in the wilderness and Architecture always seemed like a bad place to put skill points honestly.

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>>55003917
Here you go: >>55008041

>>55008076
Oh, you absolute beauty.

>>55004422
Do you think you're being funny or insightful in any way, or are you just trying to troll and failing? Honest question, I'm curious.

>>55008646
He's trolling. He was doing it last thread, with the same tune. Just ignore him.

>>55008666
It's WotC paying hired shills again like they did during 3E / 3.5E. When they'd pay people to constantly repeat "THAC0 is retarded!" and try to fracture the AD&D community 1E vs. 2E (when THAC0 is a part of all editions and always has been).

Sad part is people actually believed them, causing less people to look into superior editions with decades more content.

>>55006724
I don't understand why people continue to design systems where thief skills start at somewhere in the neighborhood of a meager 1 in 3 chance of success. Rather than doing a d6 system where you start at 1, a d10 system where you start at 4 would work much better. You'd start out with a much less pitiful chance to actually pull off the shit you try, and you'd actually have more room before you hit your head on the ceiling of the dice range (being 6 points away from 10 rather than 5 away from 6).

>>55008824
I'm biased towards Stars Without Number's skill system, with 2d6 + Attribute + anywhere from -1 to 4 depending. Success is base 7, higher if the task is more difficult, lower if it's easier.

I feel like it's a pretty sweet spot with a good dice curve, it rewards characters who specialize, and it's simple and intuitive. My only complaint is that it works totally differently from how attack rolls do and it's kind of jarring for new players.

>>55008824
I think of them as more of a saving throw: a fighter and a thief have about equal odds at creeping in the dark without being seen or heard, or pulling something up from someone's pocket, or climbing a wall - but if it fails, thief gets to make a roll to turn it to a success anyway.

>>55008743
where is True AD&D Guy when you need him?

>>55008897
True AD&D can be in all of us. Any one of us can advocate it if only we accept the sacred word in our hearts.

>>55007860
Not hexcrawling?! Totally understandable A lot of my players use Architecture in order to get information about the dungeon in terms of it's construction.

>>55008743
Seriously? You think it's that instead of someone no-one loves and is in desperate need of human interaction

>>55008076

The magic system in this seems pretty cool, would like to see it in action though. Eh, I need to get another group together.

>troll responded within minutes to a reply to his five-hour old shitpost
Maybe you should try getting a job.

>>55009203
Or maybe >>55008743 is right and this IS his job.

>>55009203
He probably has the thread watcher enabled. That way, the thread subject changes to italics when you get a (You). I think you can also make it so you get a sound notification

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>>55007860
>https://www.docdroid.net/GtTDks6/trm-sample.pdf

Here is a homebrew I made focused on Thieves using LotFP's skills as it's base (also has some DCC influence to). I kept some of the condensing of skills that LotFP introduced because it plays sleeker to me. I added things like Listen, Disguise, Read Scrolls etc because they made for more versatile Thieves. I dunno, maybe it'll give you some inspiration or ideas.

>>55008897
True AD&D™ guy is the one who, in various guises across the internet, encouraged those with more "pull" to break the THAC0 myth and exposed it as belonging to 1E. He is also me, and >>55008743

WotC shills shall not succeed. False edition "retroclones" shall not succeed. All fear the superior True editions, for they are the editions not of profit but rather those of the prophet.

>>55009946
>All fear the superior True editions, for they are the editions not of profit but rather those of the prophet.
Okay this cracked me up BUT
>2e
>not an edition of profit

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>>55009420
Thanks bro.

Going to DM my first game soon, just going to be a sandbox fuck-around type game. What level should I start the players at? 1?

>>55010577
Probably. It's easier that way. Are you using any tools to make this experience smoother, like Donjon or Sine Nomine tables?

>>55010606
No not yet. Just playing BFRPG. It's just going to be a test run for the most part set in a town.

>>55010621

>BFRPG

I found the module 'Morgans Fort' for that game to be a good starter point for a free-form game. You can just chill in the huge town and forget about the quests.

>>55010664
Cool, thanks man. I'll check it out. I'm going to be using miniatures too so it's easier to keep track of where everything/everyone is.

>>55010664
What's there to do if not quests, though?

>>55010690
Sandbox

Anyone here thinking of using something like this in their games?

http://gloomtrain.blogspot.com/2017/07/hocus-pocus.html

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HERE HAVE A DUNGEON! TELL ME WHY ITS TRASH! TELL ME WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE CHANGED IF YOU HAD MADE IT!!!

>>55010684

No problem, my group found it quite fun actually.

>>55010826
At first glance it looks pretty good actually. I might run it except my current party is vastly overleveled.

We need some more higher-level adventures here.

>>55010909
So I've seen a few variations of this comment and I do have a "mega dungeon" that I was making my for my higher level players. But I feel that in order to have it not be trash I need to make and ideally get back feed back on them before I try to publish that one.

>>55010775
It's been brought up before. People generally said that it's fine, but that it could be a good idea to use a modified Turn Undead table instead of DCs for more internal consistency

>>55011032

What's the point of the roll anyway? Making a turn undead roll seems kind of shit on its own to be honest, adding random chance to a power. What happens if it fails? It's just a waste of time then, not an interesting gameplay mechanic.

>>55011089
It's definitely one of the iffier mechanics in D&D, though I don't think the randomness is its major issue. A few threads back someone posted a blog post which compared and cross-referenced several books and posts written by people who played in Arneson's group just to figure out what it was originally supposed to do.

>>55011139

Did they find out?

>>55010826
WHERE MUH LOOPS AT
But really it is a bit 'walk in a straight line with maybe 1-room side passages.
No apparent puzzles or obstacles beyond wandering encounters and some pointless secrets

So! Without adding content, I'd probably cut it down to minidungeon size, combining half the 'empty' rooms, and stick it as a sideshow attraction within my megadungeon. Combine some thematic elements like the silver candelabra and the tree, say a silver tree covered in drippy candles.
I'm assuming these wandering encounters are 1-time deals?I'm not seeing the point of meeting any of 'em more than once since the context for these meetings isn't likely to change in the rooms I see. Might simplify it to 1 floor because I feel like the secret staircases and verticality isn't actually making it interesting to explore, just slightly slower.

Adding content, I'd put a pit somewhere that the players have to cross. Some doors that are locked and lead elsewhere, but the key is in here somewhere. A reason for the pristine room. Hints of the Argus Morels abilities, like a fungus statue with an eyeball effect like the argus has. Platforming puzzle based on jumping on toadstools complicated by an encounter. Maybe shelf mushrooms in that pit the players gotta cross. Hints that the eyeballs of the Argus need light, so maybe they'd fight it in the dark and have a different encounter. Locked chest in a haze of spores- clear the air or hold your breath. People are gonna investigate those rotten scrolls and oil basins and it's lame if they're just uninteractable scenery. mmmk

>>55011252
Yes, it was something to do with retreating from and staying away from the cleric who used it at a certain rate in a radius which scaled with level, and holy symbols came up at some point. I don't remember too well but I'll search for it in the archives.

So, after lurking and much research, I'm pretty confident in how to dungeon for my crew. Now I want to how to hexcrawl. What are my best bets for reading resources?

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>>55011305
Wilderlands of High Fantasy.

One of the first hexcrawls ever made, and still the biggest, the most detailed, and easily the best. Throw yourself right into the deep end, just dump the party somewhere there and let them go where they like, then try to build a fun game out of it.

You'll learn a lot.

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>>55003792
>shamelessly mining ideas while contributing nothing is okay when Skerp does it
>>55003899
Were you around when I shamelessly mined for ideas for TotSK and then produced a PDF (with art I paid for, in real cash dollars) for free, for you guys?

I'm not mining ideas for nothing. There is a grand and wonderful plan. And hopefully, you'll all like it.

And I've been called a lot of things, but saying I contribute nothing is... weird.

Anyway, bumping to try and get the attention of Map Anon aka Janon aka Pervy Molesto the Goat Fiddler.
>>54995094
>>54995944

>>55004139
>Been sourcing weird-fantasy pictures for a while for a corpathium-inspired project.
Tell us more.

>>55011304
http://boggswood.blogspot.com/2014/08/turn-undead-are-we-getting-it-wrong.html

There it is

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>>55011089
>>55011139
>>55011252
Yeah, more or less: http://boggswood.blogspot.com/2014/08/turn-undead-are-we-getting-it-wrong.html

> So here we have similar rules from Blackmoor players, separated by time and distance, yet with the same basic understanding of “turning”, i.e. turned undead are held away from the person turning them whom they may not attack, but are free to move about and attack anyone else they can get to. Obviously Turn Undead is not like a Morale check as it often come to be seen. The undead have not failed Morale.

>>55011423

>Turning doesn't drive the creature off, just hold it back

Dungeon World was right!

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>>55011600
I mean, it's not really like there's one "right" answer, unless you're going with "right"="original and oldest interpretation."

Turn Undead could easily be "make the undead conga-line away from you" or "become a zombie" in a system and it'd be right. It's all fiction.

Hey, we're trying to divine the holey scriptures of Arneson here, you can't just make stuff up!

Unless you're Dave Arneson

>>55011644
One of the very few things I think Pathfinder got absolutely right (and I do mean VERY FEW things) was Channeling being a kind of holy aura to damage undead. It made that ability useful to me as a cleric.

Now, they fucked up everything *else* about cleric, but at the very least I thought Channelling was a good take on Turn Undead that was simple and easy to understand: you Call On God to Shoot A Wave Of God Energy to Hurt Dead Things. Dead Things Save vs. Exploding or take even more damage.

Simple. Not to everybody's tastes, but a lot more usable than the more byzantine versions of Turn Undead, and a lot less easy to fuck up and misunderstand.

To everyone ITT:
What's your favorite system for pure sandboxing and just fucking around?

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>>55011743
You'll probably like this then: http://jrients.blogspot.ca/2017/08/insano-libs-random-cleric-advancement.html

Basically, it's that idea... but for all sorts of Cleric things. Sort of.

>>55011743
It's pretty usable and good in the game, but I feel like it's also kind of boring and not all that flavorful. I can't imagine a vampire hunter in a Hammer film repel a vampire with a burst of positive energy, while healing a wounded friend at the same time.

>>55011784
B/X or Sine Nomine. I'm Scrollcasting/Dark Souls anon, so I tend to do more work in those frames than anything else. I also really like Sine Nomine's generators and tools for sandbox play.

I've been trying to adapt the Stars Without Number Faction System to generic fantasy for a while. It's pretty fun to play with as a GM.

>>55011797
It is definitely not for everything, no. I'm just talking in pure mechanical sense, it's straightforward and understandable.

>>55011796
Hoo boy, I'm gonna need to digest this. This looks pretty clever in a way I could have fun with, although I don't know my players ever would. I'm also not sure how I feel about some of those abilities, but they're definitely flavorful.

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>>55011857
>Hoo boy, I'm gonna need to digest this. This looks pretty clever in a way I could have fun with, although I don't know my players ever would. I'm also not sure how I feel about some of those abilities, but they're definitely flavorful.
The way I figure it, you only ever use 1-10% of a d100 table, so even if there are shit ideas, you can always edit them on the fly or whatever.

But it is /good/. Good solid brain sauce. And yeah, your players would. Give 'em credit or give 'em the boot.

I don't like how spellcasting works in ACKs, how you have to declare a spell before initiative and wait your turn in order to cast it rather than have it be instan. Won't that always leave you open to attacks from opponents?

>>55011881
My players are still new to the OSR. I've been weaning them off Pathfinder for a while. I started playing back in 2e, so this shit's all familiar and comfortable for me, but most of them are recovering 3aboos I had to fight with to get 'em to try stuff like Beyond The Wall and Exemplars & Eidolons.

They still talk about not having enough options for characters.

I'm working on 'em, but man. Might be too much too fast, you know?

>>55011922
That's how it works in B/X. It's done in order to make spellcasting during battle a gamble. It works better with group initiative, though.

>>55011922
>Won't that always leave you open to attacks from opponents?

Not if your buddies are in the way. You have allies right?
The alternative means your spells can never be interrupted, and consequently, you guys can never interrupt an enemy spellcaster either. Even if he's casting a spell that's going to kill you or something.
Think about that before you decide which way is better.

>>55011333
Wilderlands is nice. Real nice. But it's a whole lot of what, and not much how. Where can I find more how?

>>55010426
Yeah I'm sure it's really hauling in the mega-bucks these days

3 spells I cobbled together:
>Knife Threshold
Magic User 1
Duration: Permanent
As part of the spell, ram a knife into a door.
Whenever a creature moves through the doorframe, it takes damage as if cut by the knife.
Removing or destroying the blade breaks the spell.

>Thaxmaral's Real Gold Piece
Magic User(but really more Elf) 1
Duration: 3 Turns
Summon 1 GP (assuming silver standard). It disappears if bitten or when the duration runs out.

>Missile to Snake
Cleric 1
Duration: 1 Turn
Target: Touch
Turns the next mundane or magic missile that would hit the target into a common asp mid-air. The asp is confused for 1d2 Rounds, then however tries to attack the target.

>>55012282
I actually really like Knife Threshold and Real Gold Piece. Those feel like things you could find in a game.

Missile To Snake seems a bit janky. Also, 1d2 Rounds is enough time to kill a snake. Also, touch...who? The target or the arrow?

Actually, Missile To Snake becomes super powerful as a defensive spell. You just touch yourself with it or try to find a wand of it, and then you're basically immune to arrows.

>>55009420
That's pretty great anon. I'm sure you could snatch a few dollars if you made it at least PWYW on some rpg site

A weird icelander called the Oldschool Primer "White Orientalist Racism dot txt" on twitter and I don't get it anymore

can leftism be about redistributing the means of production again please

>Little matchstick girl matchsticks
A set of three matchsticks in a small box. Lighting each one grants you a wish, at the cost of your lifespan: after lighting one you'll die irrevocably and premanently in 24 hours; light up another and the time reduces to just 1 hour, if it isn't already less; light up the third one and you'll die right away. You'll need Wish (from another source, obviously) or divine intervention to be brought back.

>>55012328
>Also, touch...who?
The target! After which the spell lasts the Turn or until a missile hits.

I do like the 1d2 rounds part-- it really should be enough to kill the snake, but there will usually be complications.

You're right about the power level. But if I put it in a higher spell level it will conflict with other protection spells. Not sure what to do about that, maybe I'll just use the sticks-to-snake motif elsewhere.

>>55012282
Knife Threshold is great and now stolen

My immediate thought was stick that in a door, let someone come through after you, kick them back through the door. Obvious great combinations with illusions and sight obstruction too. Does it cut swarms of BEES to ribbons instantly?

Thaxmarals Real Gold Piece sounds meh, but I'm prejudiced against 'con the shopkeeper' plots personally. It also seems kinda underwhelming even in a silver standard- 3 turn duration and disappears when bitten?
One thing I suppose it might be ok for is luring rival adventurers into traps, or psyching them out into overthinking that there's a trap. But that's a trick that might get old fast.

Missile to Snake is fun but it definitely could lead to players trying to play the 'save or die' lottery by spamming it against big monsters, which I found very annoying as a GM when I gave my players even a LIMITED supply of save or die doses. If the poison is just damage go for it but definitely think about what your game would be like with asp-spam

>>55012267
Those green reprints are pretty pricey.

But AD&D2e was basically done because Lorraine Williams and co wanted money I'm pretty sure. Someone who knows better about TSR history can correct me about why 2e was totally necessary.

>>55012348
How is the primer any of those things? It doesn't even talk about race

Is this icelander OSR or are they some started with like pf/5e sorta fag?

>>55012523
Gygax announced 2E in 1984, unless you'd like to correct me and say 1985. In development since then.

>>55012523
>>55012552
Also 2E as we know it was originally called "The Oriental AD&D game" and was published in 1985 in a book called Oriental Adventures by the author of the 2E PHB and DMG.

>>55012523
>>55012552
2e's got all sorts of shady history, but personally I don't really care - what matters to me is the end result. I think it improves on 1e in several key aspects, and the few things it does worse are easy enough to fix.

So I prefer it.

>>55012570
Do you care to elaborate on these mechanic specifics?

>>55012523
>primer
I think it's because it uses the word "zen".

The icelander seems to be a miniatures and boardgame guy mostly but he talks as if he learned english from the forge storygamers

In this case he was replying to one of the SA people (ettin) who started as concern trolls and now are actually Cute Call-out Culture Pansexuals

This is some Guelphs and Ghibellines shit

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>>55012757

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>>55012348
>>55012757

So someone on the internet is crazy. Gotcha.

>>55012591
New character options and variety: weapon specialization (in core book, not just in UA), specialist wizards, allowing you to choose thieving skills so that you can be good at two or three things instead of shit at all eight, and most of all, SPECIALIST PRIESTS.
Bards that make sense and are fun to play, especially when the kits were later added.
No class got two hit dice at the start, which was always a bit weird to me.
PHB is kind of generic but arranges things much better and it's easer to get a hang out of playing: 1e PHB was like an esoteric wizard book by comparison.
No more attack matrices.
Class-based bonus experience awards: this one's not for everyone but I love complex messy experience with a lot of variables.
Better initiative rules: using full individual 1d10 initiative is a lot of fun and makes for a nice clusterfuck of a battle.
Simpler rules for weapons versus armor.
Higher level limits for demihumans.

The last two are a bit of a moot point because I don't use them anyway, but I added them just for the sake of posterity. I also left out some of the really great stuff that came later - psionics, monster PCs - as they probably would've been added to 1e anyway if 2e had never come to be.

Besides half-orcs and assassins, both of which were added in later, and of course muh Gygaxian prose, the only thing I really miss from 1e is the more complex monster experience system (as you recall, I said I liked the sort of complicated exp stuff).

>>55012465
>Does it cut swarms of BEES to ribbons instantly?
Yes; though I would rule that 1-in-6 of the bees would be only slightly mutilated and angry

I share the shopkeeper plot sentiment, but my players are incredibly invested in those. And unwilling to bribe dungeon dwellers with real money.

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>>55012892
The 2E monster experience system is the same, sort of—people are just too ignorant to use it properly. Every monster has a unique XP value.

A monster with a base xp value of 2,000 increases by 1,000 xp for each of the following attributes:

• has ¾ or greater possible max hp (6+ avg on rolls)
• has Intelligence "High" (13–14) or more
• has and uses magical items
• has AC 0 or better
• has ranged / missile attacks

And more.

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>>55013081
>The 2E monster experience system is the same

Incorrect.

The 2e monster experience is as you said it: the experience table is sort of a straight line, with each special ability bumping up the "hit dice" they count as for experience. But 1e counts those special abilities quadratically, adding a separate bonus for each - and a higher one for higher HD monsters - and then also adding a bunch more points for each HP on top of that.

>>55013221
The point is that nobody ever applies this to each individual monster when planning encounters. Any time a monster has a bullet point stat (say they have Type V treasure, magical item—TSR never calculates this into the base xp value because you're supposed to adjudicate it.)

So if it were some evil elf with a ring of protection +3 and bracers of defense ac 2, it would be its HD value plus all the normal modifiers, plus more HD value if this elf casts spells, plus more if Intelligence High+, plus more if hp totals more than sixes (high Con jukes the stats), +1 HD value for the bracers and ring already plus +1 HD value for AC 0 or better.

Monsters often have a wide Intelligence range. Hit 13 and it's +1 HD value on the chart. Etc.

The calculation of monster xp in 2E is, as in 1E, real-time. It's
>the same, sort of

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Thoughts on this?

>>55013286
>The point is that nobody ever applies this to each individual monster when planning encounters.
I roll hit points for each monster individually. By 1e experience rules, the points they grant are similarly different. 2e doesn't make the distinction.

>>55013347
Nobody in 2E remembers to calculate the xp values in real-time / in advance of the encounter (the way everyone in 1E should be doing, like you).

It's simplified (like weapon vs. armor table) but it's there, in new form.

>>55013385
To add to that, it wasn't really new form since it was printed way back in early '80s 1E AD&D rules by people like Len Lakofka and shit. In Dragon.

hey guys my friend wants to know how would you guys implement fatness in OSR games like BFRPG or LotFP? hes playing single player with an online automated GM program but hes really stressing that he needs to be able to be big and fat and to have a spell that turns NPCs fat (and it needs to work on animals as well)

>>55013577
wat

>>55013577
Doesn't really come up much. Maybe if the character rolls up fairly low constitution but high hit points...

>>55013291
Do they only get the effects presented here as spells, or do they also have spell slots? I was unclear on that.

If it's the prior, I like it! If it's the latter, I'm not sure. I haven't gone over it with a fine-toothed comb, so take that with a grain of salt.

>>55013221
X.P. Per Hit Point (XP / HP) just became real-time 2E calculation for any monster with hp totaling 6es on his HD. 2E has all that and more in the xp calculation system. And it's real-time, monsters can always have a bullet point given their "by the book" stats and thus a bump in experience value. But 2E gets thought of as the edition with no real-time experience point system. Not so

>>55013600
i asked him just now and he says he wantts to be able to be immobile (not able to move because hes so fat)

Anyone know of any OSR games that are made to emulate Tolkien's world? Like with a magic system and everything tailored specifically for that purpose?

The 5e troll got better bait I see

>>55003969
But I used money earned at work to buy the hardback of Swords & Wizardry Complete after trying the PDF, and I'm happy with it.

>>55013626
I've actually been working on a homebrew for exactly that. I can post the incomplete thoughts, if you want! It's not even close to finished yet, but I can at least give you my thoughts on the magic as they are in the first draft.

So, people generally seem to like the idea of GP=XP here. Or SP=XP if you use the silver standard.

Is there any good reason to have monster XP rewards at all in such a system?

>>55013641
Yeah I'd like to see it if you don't mind. Would be cool to see how it's going even if it's just in its larval stages.

>>55013644
Because the acquisition of immediate experience for perilous deeds gives you powers in real life

>>55010826
Room 21 You see a scantily clad, beautiful woman. She looks scared and lonely, but she's really a mushroom suckers!

>>55013291
Spell checks in OSR never feel right. And of course almost all your spells so far are cleric stuff

>2d6 + (x2 Sage level - x2 HD of spell challenge). Target Number 7
Hm, this looks clunky. In my experience having to roll higher than 7 on 2d6 is a bitch, so you always want the spell challenge equal or lower to your Sage level. Which on low level means protecting your lair against 1 HD of creatures or healing 1 HP, and still getting exhausted. On high levels... no idea, I don't want to start calculating. But the pretty substantial chance of failure wasting entire rounds means I would like a more reliable cleric around anyway

>>55013752
7 is actually the most common roll in 2d6, there's a 1/6 chance that it will come up. That's why it's an important number in most dice gambling games

>>55013644

It's a consolation prize, takes some of the sting out of nearly ? dying.

>>55013752
On any roll of 2d6, there's a 58% chance the roll will be 7 or higher.

>>55013861
But only 42% that it's higher than 7

>>55013878
It says "target number" so presumably the goal is to roll 7 or better, not 8 minimum

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>>55013658
Sure. I'm Dark Souls Anon, too, so you'll notice some similarities off the bat in my writing style, although this is a lot less cleaned-up and a lot earlier. It leans heavily on Sine Nomine's style of character creation.

Ignore the FAQ for now, it's largely my notes for future stuff; I make FAQs to help organize my own thoughts.

Also, I'm sorry for trying to be cute with the name of the homebrew, but not that sorry.

>>55013918
Thanks mate.

Finished all the Lankhmar stuff a while back. Really enjoyed it. Now I'm reading Elric and holy shit this is great.

What else can you recommend for dark but wonder-filled, trippy fantasy like this?

>>55013954
Sure.

The big thing I think is important with Tolkien magic is that it shouldn't be "fireballs and lightning bolts." There's a place for that, because Gandalf throws fireballs and Saruman summons a storm to fuck with people, but it's clearly not the norm, so people shouldn't be doing it frequently.

Besides, Saruman's an antagonist and an unbound angelic demigod, he can do whatever he damn well pleases. Gandalf doesn't respond by summoning his own storm, so there's clearly limitations on his magic, and the Elves and Dwarves and Rangers and everybody seems to know their own sorts of magical secrets. I figure it's not too far beyond the work to give everybody access to little wonders.

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Not sure If I will ever finish this but does anyone like the direction.

>>55013999
Have you ever played that LotRO game? How does magic work in that? I was always under the impression that magic was super rare in LotR, at least to be able to use it consistently. But I think in LotRO, you can play a wizard just like any other class. Might be a good thing to look into depending on how well it fits into the canon.

>>55013954
>>55013999
Also I just noticed I left out the fifth effect Secrets can have, but it's because I'm unsure if I really want to codify Magic Item creation as a *thing*, and I haven't come up with anything to replace it.

>>55010826
TOO MANY ROOMS MY PLAYERS WILL DIE A LITTLE INSIDE AND EAT THE BLACK LOTUS

But yeah if I use it (I just might) I would combine a lot of rooms and add a faction of snake eaters and the morel drags the giant skull around like a hermit crab and

>>55014026
I think it works like any other MMO, although I don't recall. I don't believe you play a "Wizard," just a "Loremaster."

I also don't think it's a very good model for LOTR magic. Magic's not super-rare, it's just that what constitutes "magic" is very different than what most games imagine is magic. Magic is subtle and quiet. It's the knowing of secret things and the wisdom of the world, not doing magic science at things. Elf-magic is things like being a superb crafter able to make wonderful items and being a master of plant-craft and knowing about moon-runes. Gandalf's magic is parlor trickery with pyrotechnics and speaking with animals. Glorfindel's magic is knowing how to speak the right words to make the river flood.

It's little things, and I appreciate that. It's more about the world than the person doing the magic. Theoretically anyone could do those things if they knew the secrets behind it.

>>55013955
Take a look at Lord Dunsany and, of course, Vance

>>55014069
Yeah that sounds cool. Kind of like level 0 spells in BFRPG, how they aren't going to change the world but you can bend situations more in your favor.

>>55013955
Dream-Quest. Dream-Quest. Fucking Dream-Quest.

>>55014091
My companion from the dark land.

>>55014091
Will do.
>>55014098
Googling "dream-quest" is just finding some mobile game.

>>55013955
If you haven't checked out Zelazny's Creatures of Light and Darkenss its pretty good. All kinds of inspiring material there. Lords of Light was good too. Similar themes.

>>55014124
Lovecraft's Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath. I'll also >>55014126 agree with this guy, read Roger Zelazny too.

>>55014126
>darkeness
Creatures of Light and Darkness.

>>55014023

Neat, looks to be handy.

>>55013918
>>55013954
>>55013999
>>55014069
>>55014095
If I was going to make a major tweak to the current rules, it would be that I would have specified that Gandalf can use Artistry to impress people with various fire-based effects, which means he can make fireworks, puff on his pipe to blow weird smoke rings, or be the Servant of the Sacred Fire, The Flame of Anor, to intimidate a fucking Balrog with radiant glowing power.

I would also allow Gandalf to use that Secret to replace a torch once per hour if he wanted to.

Basically, Messenger Secrets work all the time and can also be used like any other secret once per hour, because being an angel makes you a bit more versatile than everybody else with your magic, but you don't have nearly as solid an Hourly ability since your class ability is tied up in "having spells." Humans get stuff like "the ability to not die once per hour" or "the ability to reroll any check once per hour," Dwarves...need rebalancing, not happy with their ability, Hobbits get an hourly ability to simply auto-succeed on either a single saving throw they haven't used the ability on in the past session or a single Stealth check, Elves get an hourly ability to automatically succeed on a single missile, blade, artistry, plantcraft, or medicine roll, and so on.

Messengers don't get shit there, they just get two tricks they can use all the time.

>>55013609

Yes, they may be able to get more as they progress but they are more support oriented.

>>55013752

I'm trying to think of how to make failure more interesting. Maybe require a spell component if they fail? Even out of combat the big risk of rolling a 1 on either die get them -1 going to their magic.

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So guess what? Someone translated Tomb of the Serpent Kings into German.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/218942/Die-Gruft-der-Schlangenkonige

And it's still free!

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>>55013955

>>55014091
>Take a look at Lord Dunsany
The Book of Wonder is pretty fucking cool. It's a collection of fantasy stories / fairy tales, with a bit of a dark twist to them. The King of Elfland's Daughter starts off good, but seems like it wants to be a novella rather than a novel, and just kind of meanders aimlessly to fill the extra space.

>>55014098
>Dream-Quest. Dream-Quest. Fucking Dream-Quest.
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath is pretty fucking cool too. It's basically Lovecraft's version of a fantasy world adventure story. Even though there are some nasty creatures in it, it has less of a horror tone than his usual stuff (which is not to say that there is *no* horror tone, mind you). Not that his usual stuff is bad, but it's a nice change of pace, and fits better with a typical RPG aesthetic.

These are some excellent suggestions. I'm not sure what I have to add, other than to say that if you haven't read any Conan, you should check out a couple of stories. They're mostly pretty short and were, of course, hugely influential. I ultimately found them a bit... confined... in their scope, but that's really only an issue once you've gotten a number of them under your belt. I was surprised at how Lovecraftian some of them were.

Oh, and if you like idea of insanely-far future post-collapse shit on an Earth with all manner of crazy beasts and shit, check out Dark is the Sun (pic related): https://mega.nz/#!7sRmHaKa!8lQfa7ZyDLbJMLVYAcmW7FGjF_vRTWv6JtqeDWr_8IA

>>55014476
wow...cool...

I must be missing something.
Say you have 2 level 1 fighters in a melee fight in BFRPG. Both have an AC of 18 (which seems to be average for that level). How the fuck are they supposed to hit each other consistently? Like they have such a small chance of actually hitting each other. Is this correct? Does this problem go away at higher levels?

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>>55014600
I know! I'm genuinely excited.

Plus, some guys are working on translating it into French too! Maybe, one day, someone will translate it into Australian.

>>55014659
I really doubt abos (niggers) play OSR.

>>55014647
>Both have an AC of 18 (which seems to be average for that level)
Not really? At chargen it's impossible to afford plate, so the only way to get that would be using a shield and godly dex. You'd be looking for something like chain , which is AC 15, or chain + shield.

>>55014728
I haven't gotten the book in the mail yet so I haven't given it a very thorough read. I'm going by the character generators on the site. 18 AC seems to be average for what it's giving me for a level 1 fighter.

>>55014739
I can't find it on the site, but I can tell you that since wealth is determined by 3d6 x 10, a character on average would use up over half his money to even buy chain and a shield, and getting good dex is entirely rng territory. And fighter attack bonus grows really quickly, so that would stop being a problem soon

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Not going to dignify that with a (you), but if I'd wanted it translated into Arrernte or something, I'd have said so.

(Although that would be really cool)
(And given the vocab lists I can find online, feasible. Though "Aheye-aheye [of the] Ilweme Lthane Ahatwe" ("Temple of the Old Skeleton Adder", in my hideously mangled gloss) has a pretty cool ring to it.)
(Fuck I wish I had time to learn more languages.)

Anyway, I meant /Australian/.

>>55014817
Alright, thanks mate.

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>>55014023
I like the direction a lot. Many pieces of this are worth stealing, even if you're not into the whole package. Please carry on.

>>55011333
Is it in the trove?

Is there a chart for converting descending AC to ascending? Would like to use the AD&D monster manual with BFRPG

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>>55015393
I swear there was one two threads back.

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Here's another session writeup, just to prove that I do actually run games.
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/08/osr-secret-of-steam-hill-session-3-4.html
>>54979638

This one is based on a dungeon someone else wrote. It went pretty well. I added a few extra effects and changed the flavour a bit.

Also, my players are idiot savants.

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>>55015461

Don't respond to trolls, anon.

>>55015393
I think Swords and Wizardry has one?

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>>55015494
Nah, it's all good spirited fun. Other anon was just being cheeky.

Why does the cleric only start getting spells at 2nd level while the wizard starts with spells right out the gate at 1st level?

>>55015461
Trilema's stuff always looks a e s t h e t i c but I haven't run anything of his. How's it hold up?

>>55015539
Cleric has big stick and armor. Wizard has one (1) spell. Wouldn't be fair if Cleric had one (1) spell too.

>>55015539
Because at first level, no spells, we hunt vampires and exercise ghosts like romans.

After that, your God decides to give you a break I guess.

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>>55015555
It's OK. This one wasn't anything special. The dungeon doesn't make a lot of sense (why was it built this way, and by whom, and what was it for originally). The enemies need to be described more carefully - I had no idea there were supposed to be 30 constructs in the dungeon until later on. They should be all over the place. And, despite being really cool, the stone itself doesn't have any hints as to what the players can do with it? Blow it up? Sell it? Put copper rods up their butts and jump-start their way to godhod?

But overall, it was a breeze to run and adapt on the fly, and it mapped fairly well from isometric to flat grid paper during play. I'm sure some of his later, more polished dungeons are even better.

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Because I'm an industrious bastard who can't just work on one thing at a time, I decided to clean up One Sovereign Ring a bit and finish out the Class Skills and Class Abilities, as well as tighten up how Secrets work. There's minimal fluff and it's a bit ugly to read, but hey.

I'm currently looking for feedback on:

-Skills, in general. Suggestions for more, number of skills, skill points, Class Skill setups, Skill Packages, so on.

-Class Abilities, particularly Orc, Skin-Changer, Human, and Dwarf (I'm REALLY not happy with Dwarf's ability).

-Secrets, particularly suggestions for cleaner mechanics or things that people think might be good expansions.

-Messenger Secrets, specifically the combat ability; is it too weak? Does it break Tolkien feeling too much to let Gandalf just throw pinecones or ignite crap whenever he feels like? Is it too weak if he /can't/?

Let me know! Playing with these weird homebrews is becoming a hobby of mine, and I like producing content for people to use.

>>55015594
I see you you fucking gashadokuro, you can't fool me with that plaster skin.

>>55015594
Checks out. It seems like there's a decent amount of meat and the arts good enough that I'll be able to come up with something.

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>>55015649
Why would I need... to fool you?
>>55015709
Yeah, pretty much. They're good little "oh shit I need something in a hurry" dungeons.

High-powered though. Every one seems to be built around some kind of campaign-exploding magical doodad or reality-warping whatzit.

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>>55004007
>Never saw these illustrations before
Cart before the horse.

Has anybody tried to mix Ars Magica and OSR games?

>>55015645
It's too early to tell much, but I think it would be good for some of the other races to get a choice of skill like humans do with the Gift of Men. For example, orcs should be able to get a more utility-minded ability, since most orcs beside the Uruk-hai are depicted as physically pathetic but cruel and dangerously cunning. It's even seen that they have twisted equivalents of elven magic, like their "orc-liquor" which mirrors the sacred miruvor.

>>55015556
LotFP proves otherwise.

>>55003969
>buying retroclones ever
>buying 5e and all its official accessories ever

>>54985782
If you MS Paint doodle every single one, you'll still never get on anybody's sidebar.

>>55015393
20 or 21 - Descending AC = Ascending AC.

Depends on your system of choice.

>>55015999
Thanks. I'm playing BFRPG and it's my first.

>>55015925
Nothing stops you from playing that kind of Orc, although I'll grant you that I'm not altogether happy with Elf-Kin as a choice, and I definitely think that Evil's Touch is better mechanically.

I'm open to suggestions, especially for Dwarves, as to choices. Originally every Race had a theme, like humans could Accept or Avoid their fates;

Dwarves had Tempted or Tempered, where they could either indulge their gold-lust and get bonuses for wearing flashy shit once per hour, or resist it and use their resistance to bolster their saves

Elves had Fire or Fade, where they could either be marvelous warriors/craftsmen/ubersmench, or else fading from the world and getting stealth/history/other similar checks

I hadn't designed one for Hobbits or Skin-Changers and I don't think Messengers much need one.

Ultimately I discarded it when I couldn't think of a good way for it to work for Dwarves.

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>>55015987
I'd put him on my sidebar but he was very combative back in the day about "spells-as-creatures" http://themansegaming.blogspot.ca/2017/07/magic-fluff-starting-magician-spells.html
not so much in this post, but in this thread. And he's captivated by therorycrafted mechanics that work only on paper (but eventually admits it and starts over).

On the other hand, he is writing like a mad fiend...

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>>55016091
How do happy fiends write? Asking for a friend.

>>55016010
So:

AD&D:
None = 10
Leather = 8
Studded = 7
Scale = 6
Chain = 5
Plate = 3


BFRPG:
None = 11
Leather = 13
Studded = 14
Chain = 15
Scale = 16
Plate = 17

Use 20 as your basis and subtract the AD&D monsters AC.

It'll have discrepancies due to the different scores, but never by more than 1 AC. This will give a slight advantage to players over less armored enemies and the equal AC score for tougher ones.

For some reason BFRPG has Scale-Mail as tougher than Chain, whereas AD&D does the opposite.

>>55003792
For playing OD&D, which is better? The Single Volume Edition .pdf that gets passed around or the Rules Cyclopedia that got published in '91?

>>55016184
Rules Cycolpedia is an expanded B/X, not OD&D.

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>>55016160
Mad as in "demented" not mad as in "angry".

In all cases: ink everywhere, much dribbling, and lots and lots of paper used up. Beware the literate fiend, for there are rivers of ink in hell.

>>55016197
I thought OD&D just got rebranded Basic D&D?

>>55016213
OD&D is LBB.
When people say "LBB" they generally mean "OD&D, without the supplements."
That said, there is no official distinction.

>>55016197
BECMI is expanded Bx. RC is pared down RC.

>>55016262
And the SVE .pdf is just the little brown books combined as opposed to the Rules Cyclopedia with all of the supplements? All right.

Thanks for the explanation.

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>>55016213

No, Basic is a descendant of OD&D, like AD&D. Essentially OD&D was split into two branches, Basic and Advanced. Basic has a number of differences from OD&D, just like Advanced does.

Basic has several editions, Rules Cyclopedia gathers most of the Mentzer stuff into one big giant book.

>>55016338
Ah! All right, that makes sense, especially when paired with the graphic there.

Sorry to drip my newfaggotry all over the place.

>>55016338
>Holmes Basic
>in the red box
That's "Intro to OD&D" and you know it!

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>>55016365
Don't be sorry. That's what /osr/ is for. Hell, that's what /tg/ is for.

If I wanted to hang out with people of staggering genius and endless knowledge I'd go elsewhere. Only here can I find people who don't know what they're doing and - more importantly - are willing to admit it.

This is where useful work gets done.

>>55016434
Some thoughts as of late:

1. Legend of Grimrock absolutely nails OSR in videogame form. It's almost perfect, aside from its videogame limitations.
2. LotFP is the perfect game to houserule and hack. It's so goddamned malleable.
3. DCC is the perfect one-shot system. I could see a campaign coming out of it, but not as easy as with the regulars.
4. Genres in the OSR are criminally under utilized. We have a billion fantasy systems, a few Sci-Fi, a handful of Post-Apoc and at best one or 2 of a select few others (Western, Cthulu-esque, Cyberpunk, etc.) I can absolutely see some fresh idea coming out of the left field and bsolutely flooring the OSR community.

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>>55016550
>4. Genres in the OSR are criminally under utilized.
I'm working furiously to see if I can build a framework for OSR heists. Somewhere between Fargo and Ocean's Eleven. It's... tricky.
>2. LotFP is the perfect game to houserule and hack. It's so goddamned malleable.
Everyone ends up running a mash of all the rules they like, plus ones they made up, in the end. What's the point of running things by the book? Write your own dang book. My "rulebook" right now is a binder full of scraps of paper, plus postit notes, plus blog post drafts, mangled PDFs, and printed scans. Plus a few books to haul out and reference as needed (from VotE to source texts on lombard laws).

It's like soup. You can buy soup base at the store. But who wants to eat warm soup base?

And once you've made soup, you can't unmake it.

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>>55016606
I posted this earlier, but I made a heist-based OSR homebrew based on LotFP and DCC. It's basically fallen by the wayside, but I ran some fun games with it for a while.

https://www.docdroid.net/GtTDks6/trm-sample.pdf

>>55016177
Thanks mate!

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>>55016643
It's a beautiful PDF anon, and I mean that genuinely. I've referenced it several times. If all homebrew stuff was this well put together the world would be a better place.

But, and I mean no offense, it's easy. It covers the obvious bits of heist games: who has what skills, who is named what, what tools you have.

But it doesn't cover /heists/. You get XP for completing jobs - but how do you craft a job? How do you, as a GM, build a compelling and complex heist-dungeon-thing that isn't just a two-story house with a window, a guard dog, and a locked front door? The one-page "Quick Job Generator" is fine, but how do I craft something from those? What should I even be looking for while crafting it?

Think about your favorite heist or crime films. Most of the time, they only work because the audience knows less than the characters. Ocean's 11 would be a boring-ass film if they explained /why/ they were doing all the stuff. You can piece it together, but the twist at the end makes the film. Can't do that in a conventional RPG*. The PCs are proceeding in a stepwise fashion, and they know everything the audience knows because the PCs - the group - is the audience.

*Can totally do it in some games. Flashbacks/forwards/retoractive editing are easy but beyond the scope of what I want to do.

So absent that narrative trick... how do we do this?

Cunning plans that fall apart or are executed perfectly. And the structure to build a cunning plan. And the tools to execute it. It requires a very different kind of dungeon.

>>55016754
Not that guy, but I've had some ideas on this based in part on the Cortex system and in part on a deck of playing cards. I'll share what I've got when I'm not working on One Sovereign Ring or Dungeons & Dark Souls.

Dicking around with house-rules and homebrew
and weird genre mashes is honestly the biggest charm of the OSR to me.

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>>55016754
Oooooh, I go ya. That's a good question indeed.

I think of the book "Red Skies Under Red Seas" the sequel to "the Lies of Locke Lamora" (my favorite fantasy novel.)

There's a twist at the end where you realize their heist presented through the ENTIRE BOOK wasn't what they were even after. It's quite brilliant in its reveal. I think, depending on your narrative, that sort of jarring eye opener would make for an amazing game. I hope something clocks in yer head and when you do you share it, cause I'd love to hear what ideas you have.

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>>55016783
I'm trying to do this system-less. No "burglary points." No "alarm levels." Just any system, any setting, and a time tracking sheet.

Mechanical dickery has never been my cup of cocks. You can plaster over a lot of sins with a new mechanic; deleting or condensing one is like a breath of fresh are.

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>>55016834
Same thing in "Interesting Times". But how to pull that on your players without it feeling like a bait-and-switch? Twists, fine. But straight up changing the goal? IDK.
>I hope something clocks in yer head and when you do you share it, cause I'd love to hear what ideas you have.
Things are merrily clocking away at 2,000 words, plus diagrams a day (of which I'm deleting about 3/4).

>>55016838
You can do anything mechanic-less, too. It's not very difficult. If you don't want a system, you can give everybody one "thing" they can decide they prepared in advance in case of an event on the way out of the "dungeon" and have them make a Save, maybe Luck if you're using it, or an Attribute Check, or something, to see if they succeed in setting it up. If they succeed, then it goes off without a hitch. If they fail, it still works, but there's a complication.

Assume basic competence, i.e. somebody cut the alarms, all the basic gear of disguises and tools are assembled off-screen.

So Joenicus the Wizard is stealing the Ambassador's Painting during a party. Joenicus is playing distraction, playing a fancy show and distracting the crowd. Meanwhile, Janeicus the Rogue is sneaking back. When the DM has guards appear, Janeicus decides to use her One Thing to say "we planned for the guards - a hired goon sets off the alarm and sends them running while I hide in the bushes." She rolls. If she succeeds, this goes well, and the goons run off. If she fails, this goes poorly, and the goons run off but one of them stays behind and notices her.

I have more in-depth fiddling and other ideas for myself, but that's the simplest way I'd do it.

I like providing tools that encourage and inspire, or emulate and explore. As I've said before, I like having a lot of tools in my toolbox. Using all of them at once is a mistake, but having the right tool for the job is never a bad thing, and having mechanics to back up or explore that tool is only a bad thing if your game's already bloated.

>>55016091

I don't know why saying 'I don't like this' is combative.

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>>55016838
As a DM, you need to be their Guildmaster. Their 'Joe' from Reservoir Dogs. He hired everyone for a specific purpose.

Give each character a task; a role in the long con to fulfill. That's all they know. They need to keep it on the relative downlow too, for gameplay sake. Because without that non-disclosure of information, you'll NEVER get that "aha!" moment you're looking for when all the players realize what their role meant.

WHY did we sneak our acrobat into that vault? WHY did we get our pickpocket near those guards? WHY did we need to get our tinkerer to this place at this time?

Because A leads to B which leads to C; C being your climactic explosion.

This is easier said than done and kind of rides a fine line of railroading. But I have a hard time seeing a clandestine plan unfurl without it.

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>>55016939
That's pretty much the plan. There's a section on how PCs can help, even if they don't have basic competencies. There's also a section on "Heists and Schemes" at the very end, where PCs can buy plans from NPCs (or GMs can offer hints; same result).

But I'm trying to tie heists together like this:

Dungeons make players manage resources: light, money, food, HP, spells, time, etc. A heist teaches the PCs to manage three major resources: time, money, and contacts. The PCs will start with limited time, limited cash, and no contacts. In order to pull off the heist, they will need to exchange their money and time for information. Managing the information they get and then building a plan is the main focus of a heist.

Moving through a city costs time. Buying things costs time and money. Bribing contacts costs time and money. Observing targets, plotting entry routes, drawing maps - all cost time. But in return, you get the pieces of a plan.

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>>55016954
Like I said, that post is polite and fine, but I seem to recall that his posts at the time were less... polite. I think the word "cuck" was thrown around a lot.

No major sin, especially on /tg/, but it's an explanation.
>>55016985
These are all good ideas. I might rephrase the GM's role a little bit. Rather than offering roles, helping to define and declare them.

But I do like making players (especially if you are rolling new characters) justify why they are there and what they can do. Makes things go wonderfully.

>>55016994
I'm confused as to how that's not mechanical?

If you're saying you don't want specific "points" to spend, OK, that's fine, but you're still talking about managing resources and assigning value to the expenditure of those resources.

Did a wire just get crossed in our communications?

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>>55017152
Possibly. I should make it clear; I dislike /additional/ mechanics.

Money, time, and information are in the core of OSR games. They don't need to be altered one bit. No additional mechanics required.

But imagine I created a system that said:
"For every 2 hours a PC spends gathering information, they earn their Int Bonus is Heist Points. They can also spend 10gp per Heist Point.

Heist Points can be exchanged for any of the following:
-20 Heist Points maps of these rooms
-1 Heist Point: sausages
-5 Heist Points: a trained cat

Players can also spend Heist Points to reduce the difficulty of any one Check or Save by...

Players can also spend Heist Points to reduce the Suspicion Level (see p. 43) of the guards. "

I've now added 2 new mechanics (Heist Points and Suspicion Level) on top of existing mechanics for no gain whatsoever, except I get to feel like a game designer and dream of Gencon.

>>55017259
I'm slightly insulted that I said I was inspired by another system's take on this problem and playing cards, and your immediate assumption is that I meant something slapdash and simplistic like that. That's kind of smug and self-righteous of you. I'm not sure you meant to be, but that's definitely how it comes off.

I like bending the system in weird ways, and I like introducing tools for people to play with. For Dark Souls, that means introducing three "active" resources rather than dealing with Time or Money as a resource, because that's part of Dark Souls as an experience. For Tolkien, it means dicking around to make magic a subtle force, because Vancian Magic and "Spells" aren't a resource in a Tolkienesque experience.

I agree, I don't see "Heist Points" or meta-currency as useful to creating the experience of a Heist movie. I'm a big fan of Snatch's "million different things colliding," and I've been looking for ways to emulate that effectively while still giving the players a means of control a la Leverage.

>>55017345
Just off the top of my head, but you could do an escalation sort of system on the gm side. Let the players make a plan, have access to a lot of information, and an osr array of tables and events to roll on for when they inevitably fuck up and escalate/complicate their situation. Let them see the whole dungeon map, that's fine. They'll make plans, no plan survives contact with reality. The part of the heist that's much more interesting is how they think on their feet to adapt, and how you as a gm will have to do so too.
basically thinking clocks from Apocalypse world and The Sprawl specifically

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>>55017345
>I'm slightly insulted that I said I was inspired by another system's take on this problem and playing cards, and your immediate assumption is that I meant something slapdash and simplistic like that.
Nah man, I'm just trying to give a clear and utterly blunt example to avoid any misunderstandings. Your stuff could be well-crafted and beautiful. Elegant even. An exercise in brilliance.

But I really try not to do those because
a) the shit I come up with, mechanics-wise, often tends towards the slapdash
b) it's not required for what I want to do

And yes, sometimes adding new mechanics is needed. For Dark Souls and stuff, money doesn't really make sense and I'd be staggered to see how Time would work (except in combat rounds).

But for /what I want to do here/, it's not required.

Side note: not sure what I'd use for Dark Souls (probably your hack), but for LotR, I'd go straight to Fate Core.

>I'm a big fan of Snatch's "million different things colliding," and I've been looking for ways to emulate that effectively while still giving the players a means of control a la Leverage.
TIMETABLES
(I hope! This one is not done at all. Many many edits.)

Combined with room descriptions that
a) focus on what the PCs see if they are in a hurry
b) what the PCs can loot if they are in a hurry
c) what's inside of it

3. Reception Room
A carved nook. Sturdy wooden door that is often left open. Scrolls, ledgers, and candles. Official visitors report here, are directed or assigned guides.
NPCs: 1d4 Servants at all times.
Father Lupin: D1: 6-10, 13-17, 20-21. D2: 6-10, 12-13. D3: 3 Hubert the Butler: D1: 11-12, 18-19

>>55017434
That's fair! It was a simple miscommunication. Happens all the time. I'm glad to hear it, though! I generally like what you write.

So how do I use a Timetable in day to day? Do I make one per-area-they-might-visit or do I make one per-NPC? Or is this something the PCs fill out?

>>55017395
To play my hand a little bit:

My very-early-alpha idea was that players write down one preparation each on a note card, something they can turn over as a "surprise" thing but clearly had *ready*. They can discuss these preparations, or not. If this comes up, it's guaranteed to work, period, unless it's something completely stupid and outlandish. Basically, it's a trump card players just /have/, because they thought ahead and were clever.

Then, they have one more "preparation," where it's like I said earlier, and they have to roll to see if it succeeds or if it had a complication.

If players want to spend time buying things and setting up other, basic preparations, they can do that and mitigate complications; basically, the first hour they spend mitigates one complication, the third hour they spend mitigates two, and so on. But if they're spending hours on this kind of thing - buying resources and "what-if" contingencies - they're not spending time investigating and learning about things they need to know, which makes their "surprise plans" less likely to come up unless they're very basic things ("I cut the alarms" is a very basic thing; "I'm prepared in case guards ambush me" isn't something that flies; "I'm prepared in case guards ambush me in the hallway" is cool, but if the guards ambush you in a room, it doesn't help you at all!)

It's super rough, obviously, but that's how I was leaning into it - a mix of surprising the GM and Contingencies vs. Information.

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>>55017469
>So how do I use a Timetable in day to day?
You pretty much need to build it ahead of time for your heist. It's tricky to improvise on the fly, but easy to write in 10 mins of prep time.

Then the PCs get a sheet that is blank, to write things like "The banker leaves his house at 8" or "at 10 we strike"

And the GM gets one to see how much time the PCs have left and to write down what they are doing.

Day to day, impossible. But for a heist... easy. You just need a map, a time limit (or people with very repetitive daily routines so one day can stand for all of them). The rest writes itself.

Start with an NPC and fill out their favorite part of the day, and their least favorite part. Figure out who they meet (not why - we'll get to that later). Figure out how much they sleep, where they sleep, what they do.

Then just sit back and let the PCs do the rest. Don't memorize or pore over the timetable. Just check it and the room descriptions as needed. If the PCs bribe someone's servant? They get yesterday's timetable.

Side note: why meetings. Make a table. One table, maybe two. Use the table to generate chaos.

Example: why are these 2 NPCs meeting?
1. Sex
2. Drugs
3. Politics
4. Money
5. Religion

Etc, etc.

>>55017533
That's very interesting. I especially like that it could be used very very easily for a time travel game a la Majora's Mask or Groundhog's Day, where the players are trapped in a specific set of events and have to unravel the mystery, and/or solve a bunch of unrelated sidequests.

How would you account for divination magic? Just give them a piece of the timetable/map?

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>>55017530
>My very-early-alpha idea was that players write down one preparation each on a note card, something they can turn over as a "surprise" thing but clearly had *ready*.
Thieves get this in the GLOG system. It's used less than I expected for dungeon crawls, but it's a damn good idea. It uses two existing resources (money + inventory slots). https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/07/osr-class-thieves.html
Abstracting it to any "thing" (like an ally on the outside, or a special spell scroll, or a disguise) is neat too.

>basically, the first hour they spend mitigates one complication, the third hour they spend mitigates two, and so on.
How are you defining "Complications", because it sounds suspiciously like a mechanic. ;)

Just general things like "alarms" or "guards" won't work well, as you've said, and the actual dangerous stuff are things the /players/ won't anticipate (and therefore, by your system, can't buy stuff to prevent). Plus, getting out of complications is half the fun!

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>>55017597
>How would you account for divination magic? Just give them a piece of the timetable/map?
Yup. They can get both by bribes or observations or stalking or mind control. Getting this info is useful but it won't save the PCs.
> I especially like that it could be used very very easily for a time travel game a la Majora's Mask or Groundhog's Day, where the players are trapped in a specific set of events and have to unravel the mystery, and/or solve a bunch of unrelated sidequests.
It's good for any complex plots in a limited timeframe. You could adjust it from hours to days or days to years if you wanted to get political. Timetables are sensible.

>>55017620
I'm defining Complications as "shit that goes wrong when you fail the dice, depending on the situation."

Having time spent means you can come up with a bullshit excuse for why it doesn't go wrong.

So in my example about, Janeicus has the goon throw the alarm as her prepared action. She fails the check, so the complication is "the goon is still here."

The party spent some time specifically preparing for encountering guards, however, so Janeicus says that her preparation was, I don't know, a sleep poison dart, which lets her avoid that goon who just saw her. She's got the unconscious goon to deal with, but that's easier than "a fight." Unfortunately, she only spent one hour prepping for "encountering guards" (a pretty generic thing to prepare for), and she's already blown her One Trick. Her card has nothing to do with guards, so she's going to have to fight, or be sneaky.

Like I said, still rough. Nothing hard like "oh this level of Complication" or "this Encounter Level", just a couple common events you could prepare for with your time.

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>>55017689
>Like I said, still rough. Nothing hard like "oh this level of Complication" or "this Encounter Level", just a couple common events you could prepare for with your time.
A good table of "Oh Fuck No" for complicating the PCs' lives.

>>55017742
Basically, yeah. Nothing more (heh) complicated than that at the very most.

I'm pretty attached to the card-based setup and that's the only thing I really have absolutely set in stone, though. I feel like that's too much fun and gives players a lot of neat stuff they can do.

>>55004629
Thanks, been looking for this.

>>55017620
Out of curiousity, I've been reading the GLOG system a bit lately. I'm a bit confused on classes. Do you take the same template multiple times? Do you get all of the abilities in a class in a single "pick" of the template, or just one?

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>>55017976
>Do you take the same template multiple times?
Nope. You get one template for each of your first 4 levels. You can never take the same template twice, and you have to take them sequentially within a class.

So a level 4 character could be:
Level 1: Thief A
Level 2: Thief B
Level 3: Thief C
Level 4: Thief D

Or

Level 1: Thief A
Level 2: Fighter A
Level 3: Fighter B
Level 3: Fighter C

or

Level 1: Thief A
Level 2: Wizard A
Level 3: Fighter A
Level 4: Thief B

See?

>>55018020
Oh, I see. And then you get the abilities based on that "template level." Okay, I understand. That had me massively confused for some reason.

So what happens after level 4? Do you just stop gaining things?

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>>55018073
>So what happens after level 4? Do you just stop gaining things?
You get a little bit more HP, you can try to improve your Stats, and your Saves improve for a bit, but yeah, 1-4 are "get cool stuff" and after that it's "survive and be smart because you aren't getting much more powerful", mechanics-wise.

>>55015987
>you'll still never get on anybody's sidebar

That's not nice m8

>>55011395
Hey Skrubl, I enjoyed your AP report of Steam Hill (that didn't involve Steam Hill itself at all). The link to the barony post made me wonder, though: why isn't there any forest in Valmore Forest?

Also, for real, don't even bother defending yourself against the trolls. Dignifying that shit with a response is pointless.

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>>55018210
>why isn't there any forest in Valmore Forest?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_forest
"Forest" doesn't mean "forested". English is weird and language changes. In this case, Valmore Forest is pretty much a moor, with some fens.

>>55011922
>Won't that always leave you open to attacks from opponents?
That's the POINT. As a Magic-User, you need dudes to defend you (or you need to be hidden, or far away) if you want to be able to cast. Otherwise fighty guys will just fuck you and your wizardry up.

>>55012282
>Knife Threshold
This is GOAT. I have nothing to add, consider it plucked.

>Thaxmaral's Real Gold Piece
This actually feels a bit weak for a level 1 spell? Given that any attempt to buy shit with the magic money is constrained by how much you'll piss people off, I think it would be fair to increase the number of gp to, say, 20 (still assuming a silver standard). Maybe have each gp revert to a dry flower petal or something like that rather than disappear, so there's always proof that you weren't just robbed by a third party or mislaid the gold.

>Missile to Snake
Honestly, why not just have this affect one arrow, which then turns into an asp when shot and forces a poison save if it hits instead of normal damage? If you're in touch range of an enemy it's very unlikely that someone will be able to get a shot in on him, since that would require you to disengage from melee.

Thanks for the spells, Anon!

>>55011784
Macchiato Monsters and Dragon de Poche2.

>>55014023
I really like this concept! I gotta be that guy and point out that most people burned for witchcraft historically were actually men, though. People don't realize this because of the popular fiction image of witch trials, but it's true.

>>55014023
Yes looks cool.

Anyone have that triangle of classes from 0-100 from last thread?

>>55019965

>>54985782
>>54985795

>>55019987
Now I feel silly, but thanks for that

>>55019965
I don't want you to feel TOO bad, but do you realize it's linked IN THE OP?

>>55018231
If you don't mind some advice, I'd recommend that if you want to use "forest" in this sense, you write "woods" instead of also using "forest" in the modern sense. Your actual post uses "forest" exclusively in the modern way so it's not intuitive that you also mean the archaic one to apply.

I mean, I get that this isn't a problem for your personal game. But for the blog it might help.

>>55014647
A few things to keep in mind...

Fighters are tanks. They have good hit points, but mostly they're really hard to hit. Few if any of the low-level monsters you encounter will have as good of an AC as a fighter with a shield.

Hit points scale dramatically as you level in D&D, which means that not only can high-level characters take a lot of abuse, but also that beginning characters and 1 hit dice monsters are frail, quite often going down after a single hit. While characters' damage rolls are increased a bit as they level thanks to the magic weapons they obtain, the main difference in the amount of pain they can dish out comes from an increasing ability to hit. Beginning characters have a shitty chance to hit in order to compensate for how few hits their low-level enemies can take. (And remember, a fighter's chance to hit is no better than any other class's at 1st level.)

So a PC without a strength or dexterity bonus is going to have a 20% chance to an AC 18 target. I personally think that's a bit on the low side, as it can be frustrating to miss a lot, but we are talking about the most heavily armored thing they're likely to go up against. And on the defensive side, it's reducing the chances of fighters and clerics getting punked and instantly going down.

If you're looking at 9th level fighters, however, that 20% base chance to hit an AC 18 target has more than doubled to 45%. There are certainly legitimate complaints about the system (and I frankly prefer armor as a damage- rather than accuracy-reducing apparatus), but it's probably not as broken as you think it is.

>>55020582
That's not even taking into account the magic items that 9th level fighter is almost assured to have: a +1 sword at the very least, probably more, quite possibly a Gauntlets of Power or giant strength potions or at least a wizard around to cast Strength on him.

>>55011395
Oh snap, I missed this last thread, my bad.
I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I think I could pull it off.
I should probably get some contact information so you can get in touch more easily, my bad

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So we can probably all agree that slitting a guy's throat with a dagger while they sleep will kill them, regardless of their level and hit points.

But what about when you get the drop on them in a dungeon somewhere and point a sword at their throat? Could they just tank that hit, or could they avoid it somehow? How would the mechanics of that work?

>>55021985
Sword at somebody's throat? Hmm. That's different than being behind somebody with a knife blade you draw across their throat. Are they pinned against a wall or something? Because otherwise it's easily conceivable that somebody could avoid a stab, or at least avoid the brunt of the attack.

Depending on the exact circumstances I might make the person with the sword make a roll to hit with a miss meaning the target takes normal damage, and a hit meaning their target must save vs. death with a successful save indicating they lose half their current hit points and then take normal weapon damage (and a failure meaning they're outright dead).

In the case of drawing a knife across somebody's throat, I'd probably just forgo the roll to-hit and jump straight to the save vs. death (assuming I didn't just rule it as an automatic death).

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>>55016643
I'm a really big fan of this table. But as >>55016754 said there's definely a gap between what to heist and how to heist. It's a very top down approach to "dungeon/module" design. You make the objectives first and then are trying to fit the mechanics around the design. I would stress the need for a procedure or system for making their heist first rather than why something is being heisted. (Turns out everyone else started talking about this too and I can't figure out who is who). I would say to focus on the "dungeon" of the heist.
>>55018020
I still don't see anything in the GLOG about being able to Multi-Class and I swear you're making things up to make me feel crazy.
>>55018073
Think diminishing returns as you level up.
>>55021985
6/10 almost made me write up an angry essay

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>>55022386
>I still don't see anything in the GLOG about being able to Multi-Class and I swear you're making things up to make me feel crazy.
Not him, but

>>55015556
>>55015560
Would it be considered imbalanced if I had cleric able to cast at level 1? Wizards get a big selection of spells to use anyway.

when were you when arnold comp dies?

i was sat at home eating rat milk when lump princess

‘goblin punch is kill’

‘no’

>>55022485
Thank you!

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>>55021936
>I should probably get some contact information so you can get in touch more easily, my bad
Oh now he gets it!

Anyway, sure, let me know.

I've drafted the maps on the same scale and overlaid grids, so it's trivial to redraw. The main thing is... it has to be to scale. You're free to improvise within the map, but the windows and doorways and stuff all need to line up (so the PCs can blow open a wall or break a window and end up where they need to be).

You know those "trace a drawing larger" exercises where you take a small drawing, divide it into a grid, and then redraw it section by section on larger grid paper? Like that, in a way.

So those windows (W) spots? Those line up with the actual windows in the rooms. They'll need to be numbered, of course, but this is all still in draft.

But if you're interested, I'll put together an imgur album or something with reference photos and better explanations.

>>55022386
>I still don't see anything in the GLOG about being able to Multi-Class and I swear you're making things up to make me feel crazy.
It might be that Arnold wrote it down somewhere else and didn't put it in the PDF. He does that.
>>55022485
Or that.

>>55016338
That chart is made by liars trying to take 9 months from True AD&D™. Pathetic how they have to make it seem like True AD&D™ ended at the end of 1999 rather than after the summer of 2000. Sad!

>>55023276
i cri erri tim

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>>55024238
reblog five-ever
dat mean u reblog moar den 4evr

Also, can't believe that was 6 years ago. Time flies when... when...
Well anyway, time flies.

>>54995989
>>54996112
>>54996137
Also, y'all didn't finish writing the purple prose dungeon from last thread.

Shame.

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>>55023276
Goblin Punch is overrated.

>>55024552
Goblin Punch is either really good (trolls, gear and alchemical equipment, WTF are those goblins doing) or really bad (ogres).

>>55020582
>>55021061
Thanks dude. That helps a lot.

>>55023485
>I've drafted the maps on the same scale and overlaid grids, so it's trivial to redraw. The main thing is... it has to be to scale. You're free to improvise within the map, but the windows and doorways and stuff all need to line up (so the PCs can blow open a wall or break a window and end up where they need to be).
Oho, that sounds like an interesting challenge. I think it shouldn't pose much of an issue though.

[email protected] shoot me a quick message here so I can give you the proper mail

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>>55024789
Ok, message sent. I'll send over some map stuff and the full album in a bit.

This is going to be a hell of a trip though. Just be prepared.

On the other hand, the final product is going to kick ass.

>>55020582
On a related note, I've always thought that clerics (and demi-humans in a race-as-class system) should be limited to chain mail and that plate mail should be reserved for fighters.

>>55024986
Turns out I'm a buffoon and the site I used doesn't allow email responses. Oops. Plan B
https://pastebin.com/yWpCk6qT

>>55025076
No reason dwarves couldn't wear plate, is there?

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>>55025147
Sent. Now get those emails out of here or you'll get spammed to death.

>>55025076
My reason for why clerics are limited to blunt weapons is that the god of war only allows his followers to wield the greatest weapons of the age, such as the glorious nippon katana and plate would be easy to include in that restriction

Clerics are limited to blunt weapons and chain because doing otherwise would violate the pact the war god has among the other deities

Unless you're a War cleric of course. Then you can essentially be a paladin with plate and greatsword.

>Original D&D (Basic Expert Companion Immortals, etc)

So what are the odds they made an intern punch in the new games available for roll20 listings?

>>55025188
How new are you? Honest question.

>>55025579
Not him but posting your email on 4chan has historically been a bad idea. Everyone had the sense not to do it which is why the email field was eventually removed. That and situations which needed you to post your email came up really infrequently to start with

>>55025729
Also, it is a very bad idea to do it ANYWHERE AT ALL or to use your "real" email to sign up for random shit, but over the years people have kind of forgotten about the holiness of one's real name/email

>>55025766
>>55025729
You know there's a time limit for being able to delete posts, right...?

>>55025786
I'm pretty sure he meant the pastebin, anon

>>55025805
>>55025188
>>55024789
[email protected] is presumably just a throwaway email

>>55025824
Yes, I just went for the presumed irony/low hanging fruit of somebody calling someone else new for being paranoid about their email

>>55025846
It's probably more likely for the person to be new whose suggestion was to delete a post after the window of deletion was over.

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>>55025579
Been here for ages.
>>55025729
>>55025766
>>55025786
>>55025805
>>55025824
>>55025846
>>55025906
I'm not saying people on 4chan are going to spam you with pictures of mashed cats and anal sex enthusiasts.

But the russian bots that trawl this site will send you spam. Free email addresses out in the open are easy to grab.

>>55026059
>>55025906

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>>55026071
Eh, I can never remember the time limits on these things. Besides, its his email, not mine, so it doesn't really matter either way.

>>55026152
>>55026059
>Been here for ages.

How do I know how much XP to give a PC for killing a non-monster NPC?

>>55026213
Stat them as monsters with as many hit dice as they have levels, with bonus points for spellcasting or other such special abilities.

>>55026225
Thanks.

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>>55026192
And I found out you can spoiler by highlighting and hitting crtl-s about a year ago.

Been here for a while. Not getting any smarter.
>>55026213
>>55026225
Pretty much what I'd do, verbatim.

>>55026603
Have you played Morrowind since?

>>55025163
Personally, I think chain mail is more in keeping with a dwarven aesthetic, but it's mostly to set fighters apart and give them an advantage over the other classes. Dwarves have kick-ass saving throws and a few racial special abilities to boot, so it seems balanced that they can't wear plate.

>>55025238
>Unless you're a War cleric of course. Then you can essentially be a paladin with plate and greatsword.
But war clerics are presumably limited in their spells by that same pact, whether that means casting them at a lower level, or having your healing spells restricted somehow (bumped up a level?). Or maybe they could literally be paladins, at least as far as class mechanics go.

>>55026960
You know he didn't make that image, right...? It's years old.