Riddle me this, /tg/: if alignment is so great, why aren't

>implying

Because they're not always used for evil purposes and may sometimes lead to a morally better solution than the alternatives, ex. murderhoboing everything in sight.

But you just wanted an excuse to post your cropped magical realm porn.

File: 1347033294992.jpg (351KB, 1280x2077px) Image search: [Google]

351KB, 1280x2077px

>>54965120
Is it evil to take someone by the hand and tug them? Denial of choice isn't Evil, though it can easily be turned to malign purposes. Forcing someone to behave in a Good manner is intrinsically Good.

File: 50013520_p0.jpg (1001KB, 800x935px) Image search: [Google]

1001KB, 800x935px

It is evil. Infringing on free will is evil.

You infringe upon the free will of a criminal by incarcerating him, but in that case he has entered into an agreement that that is a result of him doing crime in the first place.

If your mind control is not used to stop a criminal in the act of a crime, then it's a pretty bad thing to do.

I play lots of bards and spellcasters but I refuse to use any of their mind altering abilities for anything that infringes on free will, unless in the case of an active criminal.

>>54965207
>Forcing someone to behave in a Good manner is intrinsically Good.
No, it is not. You believe this simply because mind-control allows you to skip most of the steps we all associate with forcing someone to do as we please. You can distance yourself from the method being used, focus on the results and justify the whole thing in your head. Doesn't stop it from being evil.

Every time you mind-control someone, visualize yourself physically and forcefully *making* that person do as you want and you'll quickly realize just how unacceptable the vast majority of the uses for mind-control are. I agree that stopping someone in the act is fair, the same as physically stopping them or restraining them would be. Beyond that, one quickly loses the moral high ground.

>>54965207
"Villians by Necessity" by Eve Forward.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

>>54965336
When a roving horde of bandits, marauders, undead, whatever turns up and you mass suggestion them off a cliff on balance I think it comes out as a good act. Infringement of free will only becomes evil when infringing on free will of the few is not to ensure the free will of the many,

>>54965120
Calm emotions and hope aren't evil. Can't think of any other now, though.

File: 5dd37ff2a5b53d218bcc5672f9f7b93b53a967f3.jpg (38KB, 293x401px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 293x401px

>>54965120
Because everything you think is a social construct.

If someone places you under mind control he simply has a higher form of social communication with you, and it's not this fucking seize your mind tier shit people think it is, but you legitimately doing what they want because YOU want to do it as you feel compelled to without reason or conflict to prior thought. It's only after it ends does someone protest, but that doesn't attribute to the false idea of a sense of self.

That, and Thrallherding. If someone communicates with you in a manner if it knew how every single part of your brain worked by basically knowing the chemical reactions, hormonal distributions and the like, then communicartion with them is really no different than talking to a master of persuasion and charisma. I mean, how can you really say the guy who plays Eroge or Visual novels is evil because he's reading a walk through which shows him the path to true love?

That- is primary why mind control is such a terrifying concept, as it is unquestionably a superior form of communication held between two or more parties of individuals.

Now shut the fuck up and go back to herding Roth, Thrall.

File: tumblr_ne9jduYSCd1ro2bqto1_1280.jpg (75KB, 800x473px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 800x473px

>>54973450
Lastly, there is no such thing as free-will, it's an embarrassing idea as if it existed then people would not purposely shackle themselves to ideas of self-control and order, and what greater evils according to these people are the idea of free men? A disgusting hypocritical notion held by weaklings who band together to fester in their own stagnant rot.

People only want the 'sense of freedom' and not actual fredom, for this is chaos, and to them, the breeding ground for the path to ruin and evil. They only attempt to justify the idea of obtaining freedom despite not knowing how, either through cooperation and support or individual pursuit. Eventually the ideas held to achieve these goals can blur and fracture over time, being lost to compromise and starting the cycle over.

When someone threatens you're life and crushes you underfoot, do you think your expression of self is truly an expression of freedom, or are you simply winning a shallow victory to earn that feeling for a fleeting moment before the next tyrant comes along?

You're a bundle of fluctuating chemicals, complexes and error and you protest this failure of self-control and lack of cohesion on anything you can, and when you look to yourselves to try and change the error you get a cult that can never find it within themselves to do the same. So it's no wonder you lie to yourselves in the very notion of thoughts that are lies, emotions that are lies and understanding that are incomplete half-truths at best to remain stable before you all crumble apart like the meaningless pecks you are.

Mind Control? Evil? I suppose simply talking to someone at all could be evil, if you would condemn it so, shall i cut out your tongues, o' evil one?

>>54965120

Temporarily mind controlling someone to stop them doing something bad is better than killing them to stop them doing something bad. Like, let's say that cops, instead of having guns, had hypnosis rays that compelled someone to walk up, accept handcuffs and get in the car. Better than shooting them with a regular gun.

>>54973450

How about "body control" mind control, where the individual becomes a helpless prisoner fully aware but unable to do anything but perceive what's happening as their body acts under someone else's direction?

File: tumblr_o2eq50OsHw1ron51co1_1280.jpg (550KB, 1261x1920px) Image search: [Google]

550KB, 1261x1920px

>>54975061
That usually is under Necromancy, which in D&D is chalked up to be "Mostly Evil" and is outright if it has the [evil] descriptor, forcing the like of a roll on the Necromancers Handbook necromantic table, Powers check, Taint Check, Corruption Check, and so on for the reverberant forces of evil as a force in D&D that makes you an amusing stereotype to stylized thematic villian figures.

Domination is often the eviler out of given forms of mind control because you pretty much shut them down into easy-slaves without working up the social accumen to secure yourself a thrall. It's good for easy-expendable outright slaves or things needing to be placed under this form of control when other ones won't work, but it is best used sparingly, namely the like of people who cannot identify it, and only for short periods of time backed up with other spells, namely suggestions and convincing arguments posing as the target's own thoughts.

It's charm that's the dangerous one, it's basically an effect that makes you best friends with someone, filling up the blanks to lead to such a state, which only you need to sort out by actually engaging with the charmed subject. Raistalin in Dragonlance with the Gulley Dwarves pretty much provide the prime example of this.

Given that we look at how being evil relates to you being a selfish bastard that hurts others in D&D, context of use of mind-affecting spells usually makes you out to be chaotic or a massive control-freak sociopath nut.

Thing is though, Illithid are evil because they're literally a violent invasive species out to subvert everyone into becoming their cattle, who give you a concussion before eating your brain- though to note, HOW they eat your brain only adds the grizzly horror of it all, the lucky ones get the hidden tentacle treatment, the others can get anything from 'Performance eaten' to literally being made to feel circular jaws cut into the skull, slowly press it open and take you apart, bit by bit.

File: 1465781185471-1.jpg (159KB, 679x388px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 679x388px

>>54977680
If there's one way you can emphasize the evils of Psionics and Mind-affecting abilities, look no further than a party member restrained by an Illithid who had them in their embrace and is 'Peeling them apart' over the course of say- 20 minutes as others are forced to watch in agony because the Illithid is transmitting this from the victim's perspective to it's fellow companions as they watch the deteriorating sight, thought-processes, nervous shock body-spasming held back by the Flayer's grasp on on them until eventual bowel loss from the agony and pain the victim is in.

The Kicker? If the victim is female, has chemistry with a party member and this happens whilst the Illithid is behind a portal and is doing it out of sheer spite. This can be even worse with the correct Psionic disciplines in place, causing permanent trauma, mental illness, a madness check, horror check and the corpse is thrown down a shaft afterwards. That's a way to get the blood boiling and the real "Welcome to the Underdark, thrall." message out to a party.

An Illithid attack is in effect, an organized rape, murder, and psychological horror session all in one, only mass combat tends to have them quickly extract a brain.

File: Thomas Covenant and Linden Avery.jpg (9KB, 235x184px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 235x184px

>>54965120
It is.

>>54977841
This guy gets it

>>54965120
>why aren't all forms of mind-manipulation considered Evil?
They are and everyone knows this unless their minds have been manipulated to think otherwise.

>>54965120
>you dont want to sell death sticks
>these are not the droids you are looking for
obi-wan used mind manipulation a few times, and so did luke, and yet they are patently not evil

>>54981122
Obi-wan straight up groomed the jedi antichrist

>>54965336
>free will
>evil.
Pfft. Only because that's what I programmed you to think.