/gdg/ - Game Design General

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Seems like it's been an age since we've had one of these. How are your projects going? Any major breakthroughs? Any big news?

As an aside, here's that game design pdf I promised about a hundred days ago. I flicked through it, it looks useful (but so useful that you should feel bad about pirating it).

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>>54918315
Gnawing at the same old problems, designing comprehensive stats scalable by size mainly.

A little question to liven up the thread:
What do you think of the use of the value zero (0) in stats, skills and other gauges?

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I keep coming up with new game ideas, and just as quickly shelving them.

>>54920599
>value 0
It depends heavily on the rolling mechanic used by the game. In some it might not be possible, while in others the ability to have a 0 in something might be a necessity.

For example, my homebrew which will likely never be finished has skills that can be 0 or even a negative value.

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here's my shitty homebrew, simplebeans
tri-stat, d6-dice-pool, D&D-like, simple game for simple times such as when you're shitfaced drunk or have players that can't even read a single-page-system

"borrow" any mechanic you like
tear it apart and slap me up with critique

>>54926522
Seems okay at a cursory glance. I just can't get excited about these kind of games and they are decidedly not for me.

>>54926783
Quite fair, thank you.
I ran a Wolfenstein game with the ruleset and it worked okay, though this is because it's so shit-simple to run and recolor.

>>54918338
Had another big resolution shift, so woop woop.

>>54920599
Definitely has to do with how the mechanis use the stat/skill, but not inherently against it. Especially if you use it simply as a modifier, no reason +0 can't be the way baseline is represented in your stats/skills.

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>>54928266
I already have 0 as a baseline/average for stats. I am debating on if a (not exhausted) resource can be zero too.
Such as stamina, so at the lowest end of constitution there would be no usable stamina.
Although that opens the question if actions that need stamina are prohibited in this case, or you get one before passing out.

What would be a good system to run a Codex Alera game?
It's a book series by Jim Butcher (the Dresden Files guy) in which every human has access to one or more elemental spirits called furies.

Each type of fury provides abilities and powers, but also has a set weakness.
For example, a powerful wind fury allows its user to fly, create optical concealment, and increases their speed. It's weakness is earth, so the user is less powerful inside of stone buildings, and the fury is actively damaged by salt.

Are there any existing systems that could pull that off with just a little tweaking?

>>54928557
I can see an exhaustion system like that working. I'd say something that's like, if you push it into the negatives, you pass out, could work. For example, a character wants to do a power blow that costs 5 stamina, but they only have 3 left. They could make the power blow, but be out afterwards. 0 would be winded, less would knock them out, so they could use the 3 to do something else and still be around, but pushing below that is too much to handle.

>>54928680
This may sound weird, but Ironclaw can be worth a look. Replace species stat with fury stat. (Heh, furry stat with fury stat.)
Stats are ascending die sizes that are rolled whenever relevant to an action.

>>54928909
I'll check it out (though I fear for my Google search history).

Tell me about your rolling mechanics /gdg/.

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I'm trying my hand at GMless scene creation. Game for 3-5 players. In this instance in the context of hardboiled crime fiction. So far I have it where when you build the city and get important themes every player chooses one of five different questions and they correspond to a role in establishing scenes. Multiple if they are lacking five players:

>What are the people in the city like?
>What does the city look like?
>How does the oppressor interact with the city? (oppressor is rolled for previously)
>What are the laws like in the city?
>How is this world different from our own? (A wildcard option)

When the investigation begins and everything else is established a player would choose a lead they have and narrate their character investigating it while all players use their roles to narrate the elements of the scene. For the player who owns the turn they would play their narrative role and their character.

For assistance, I give the suggestion to start building scenes by choosing your lead and then stating what you will be trying to do, where, and with who. From there everyone else can start working together to build the scene together.I'm not sure if this structure is necessary but it's my suggestion.

Now there is more stuff to be done in the scenes but I just want to make sure people can start building and establishing scenes collaboratively without much trouble. I'm doing my first playtest with this in a few days and I just don't want it to be a monumental failure. Any criticisms?

>>54929579
Currently I'm playing with an opposed roll dice pool mechanic that has limited exploding die mechanic.

The idea is when you attack, both players roll 3 D12's, and score a success depending on their model's stats (the attacker could have an attack skill of 5+, or the defender could have a defense of 7+). Each success the defense rolls negates a success of the attacker's, and how many leftover determines which damage bracket on the weapon you use (if the weapon has a damage tract of 2/3/4, one success does 2 damage, two does 3, and 3 or more does 4 damage). The limited exploding is that rolls of natural 12 add another die to the roll, but these can't generate any more extra dice. If doubles or more are rolled, you add +1 to the damage.

>>54929700
Why all this default structure? It seems clunky to build the setting in some kind of codified theater exercise way. Organically you would have done parts of that to get people on board for the game in the first place.
What you need to do is adjudicate in case of conflict and I don't see how this is done from what you have written. Are players just settled with any dissonant thing someone puts into a scene?

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>>54930069
>Why all this default structure?
Well there is to be no prep. The city setting, the crime, and their individual characters and made by dice rolls and player input but when I tested this with a friend of mine the idea was to just have the player who owns the turn to simply choose a lead and narrate them pursuing it while other characters could interject as they please. This came to two big issues:

>We felt we didn't have enough context to improv off of well
>We had no reason to interject at all unless we really wanted to

Assigning roles in creating the scene was my attempt at not putting all the responsibility on one player to improv at first and foster worldbuilding better.

>>54930069
>Are players just settled with any dissonant thing someone puts into a scene?

Forgive me, what do you mean by this?

>>54929579
Your stats determines how many d6s you roll when performing an action. Rolls of 4+ pass, the rest fail. Skills are used as rerolls. A positive skill value means you reroll that many fails, a negative skill value meams you reroll that many passes.

Some effects can raise or lower your effective skill, others can make you pass on a 3+ or other value.

>>54930285
As you are building an improv game, feel free to disregard it. As I understand it, in improvisation "yes, and..." and flow is king. I was coming from a freeform roleplaying or collaborative writing angle, where Everything is up for discussion.

The point was, what if some introduction sucks plainly speaking. If you split the creation between players there will be different vision. How is that reconciled? Now if you are looking at it from a stage angle it may very well be that it isn't supposed too and players/actors are supposed to roll with whatever. In a run of the mill roleplay game this would lead to disenfranchisement with the story and would thus have to be worked out.

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>>54920599
I treat zero to mean either "nothing" or "off".
It's not revolutionary but I would prefer zero to mean "completely unskilled in that regard" when used for a skill.

>>54930050
Yesss, Aegeos is still around
Do you use the Discord, or were you patient?

>>54930590
Actually, I've been over in /awg/, since there's been a recent surgence in interest in homebrews there.

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>>54930476
Ah. That's a good question. Since the aspects of the setting in these questions would largely interplay I expect there to be discussion so it is done collaboratively while each has their own individual say on the story's themes. Likewise, I figured the best way to handle unfitting stuff would be to give everyone veto power that could be handled by discussion but I'm not sure what the extent of that veto power is at all.


This plus the elements rolled for (the abstract 'vice' of the city, the oppressor of the city, and the rolls for the crime and the individual characters) are this game's methods of forming uniform themes alongside its content.

Trying to add monsters to Mordheim in a homebrew.

By monsters i mean things like Carnosaurs, Forest Dragons, things that are big but aren't the biggest in Warhammer. Mainly for more variety and to get use of some of the bigger guys who I rarely get to play.

My problem is trying to determine the cost of these guys, as the biggest guy you can recruit in vanilla mordheim is a rat ogre (who is quite tough and could kill any of these in a single turn)

Any thoughts other than to give up?

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>>54918315
>Game Design General

How would I go about protecting something I made?

1.Unique art/Character Concepts, locations as well as names?
2.I plan to use above in a book. Do i need copyrights or patents for them all individually or just the book?
3.What is the time turn around for a copyright or patent? Is the process expensive?
4.How do I know if something has already been copyrighted or patented? (I don't know which to use.)
A character name I made up for example.
5.How would I protect a miniature I made? Would it be protection of the miniature or the art of the miniature
or both?

I've seen people be ripped off for creating something new and rich- and the Idea that I put all this time into
something- have someone else love the idea and "patenting" and giving me a cease and desist order doesn't
sit well with me.

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>>54930680
>no response
>not sure if they lost interest or I fucked up

>>54932794
This can depend on the country you live in. Where I live (NZ) as soon as you publish something, it is automatically copyrighted, so no need to actually do anything.

Look up the copyright laws in your country.

Unless you're a big company or you've already sold 100+ copies of your game, I wouldn't worry too much about someone stealing your ideas. Its unlikely they will know about your game, let alone steal from it.

>>54932325
I honestly wouldn't worry about cost, and set them up to be scenario specific encounters. Kind of like how daemons are handled; they are really powerful, so instead of trying to balance them, they add to the risks of Mordheim.

Its a tough task, and the biggest hurdles are going to be toning down the stats without losing the menace the big monsters would have. But its also a great opportunity for coming up with new stuff: Instead of the D3 wounds rule Carnosaurs have, it can have a rule to forfeit attacks to make a special one that chomps a model, recreate the feel of movies with the big dino just eating people. Flying in a city is hard to do for big things, so instead, winged monsters can climb easier and get a bonus when they charge, to show them blowing things around with their wings. Little things like that can change it from "its a big stat stick to fight" to interesting encounters, especially if they show up in the middle of a match between gangs. "You gangs heard rumors of a stockpile of food and supplies, only to find a griffon has wandered into the city and eaten it. Still, a beast that size would provide enough meat for a good long while..."

>>54918338

I'm about to publish my game on Amazon.

I don't bring up my system alot because the system is furry.

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>>54932950
Sorry man. It is hard to give feedback on a game style you fundamentally don't want. I didn't want to spray negativity over the place and designing to placate people outside of the target audience harms games.

>>54934889
Recommended Ironclaw in this very thread, it's fine in my book.

Accidentally posted this to the worldbuilding thread. Derp.

I love the idea of d100 systems. I have some familiarity with the d100 WHFBRPG and the Dark Heresy family of games, but now I'd like to branch out and see what other systems I can steal from. I mean take inspiration from.

From what I understand, Call of Cthulhu uses a d100 system that isn't all that focused on combat, so I'm already giving that a go, but can anyone here suggest other systems I should take a look at?

>>54938694
Fucking custom game dice.

I hate how I had an idea to work on and expand right as I was falling asleep last night, but now I can't remember it. Anyone else have tge problem of hits of inspiration when you can't record it (taking a shower, falling asleep, driving, etc.)?

>>54933256
That's the thing, me and a few others want to have a leader mounted on a big gribbly as a mount from time to time. I could see it as a pay to use for the scenario and set up some specific rules to have it enter the board later or something.

>>54942844
Could be a rare item found when searching after a game. One use item that summons a big monster for a game. You'd still have to come up with gang rating for it, I think.

Could again go for the random scenario, set up rules for trying to capture it, and add a rating and upkeep cost.

How complex is your core mechanic? Mine is five steps and takes two pages to explain but only uses 3d6.

Hey game designers! Been waiting for this thread to pop up for a while and am excited to get some feedback on a macro rpg I've been working on. I've got some friends together to start playing a beta soon and was hoping some professionals could offer some ideas and advice on my system.

The idea is that each player is a provincial lord ruling a province that is part of an empire. They start the game with a number of points to purchase infrastructure for their province, alliances, marriages, heirs, advisors, military and things like that. Each turn is two part, one is a senate meeting where all Lords vote on issues of the Empire with the emperor, the second part is the players each take private turns where they send spies, fight battles and influence npcs.

The roll system is d10. When in combat you roll a d10, and add bonuses like , +1 if you're a general, +2 if you have 1000 more troops than your enemy. Your enemy rolls as well. If you win the enemy loses (your roll - their roll) * 100 troops. Repeat till the battle is over. Intrigue is played out with a d10 roll with added modifiers like your a noble so +1 in general, but also part of the imperial rave so +1 to other imperials. GM determines how hard the convincing is, sets a DC and you roll adding modifiers to see if you convince the npc.

My main question is what type of bonuses would you as a player like to purchase in a game like this? What spouses, what bonuses, what military would you like to use and abuse?

>>54943831
>spouses
futacharr wife

Hey guys!

I'm in the middle of creating a first prototype for my board game idea. It's a skirmish/arena combat game and you use dice for attacks and spells to determine damage. There are 4 different types of dice. Worst to best they are: Yellow, orange, red, purple
During the game you can upgrade your attacks/spells so they use better dice.

I'd like your opinion on this. On how I want the dice values to be. They are all d6 by the way.

>yellow
0-1-1-1-2-2
>orange
1-1-1-2-2-2
>red
1-1-2-2-2-3
>purple
1-2-2-2-3-3

For example the Lightning Bolt attack would start out that you roll a yellow and orange die. By upgrading it you'd roll 2 orange dice. Next upgrade 1 orange and 1 red etc. Or you could also add another yellow die instead of upgrading.

Please let me know what you think or if you have ideas!

>>54943239
That may not be the most loreish version of it but I like the idea of doing a mission to obtain one with an upkeep cost.

I'm almost finished the basic framework of a game I have been working on for some time. So far I have been able to keep guns and melee somewhat balanced with each other, but magic is posing a problem. The idea I'm toying with here is that players pick 2 options from a list of classes to create a hybrid. So out of 8 options there are actually 56 possible combos. The problem arises when I try to add the last class, the magic user. I can't find a sweet spot between "auto pick" and "never use" for magic. What are some limitations placed on magic in other systems that you guys find good to keep it in check while letting it remain fun?

Tl;dr what can I steal from another system that makes magic risky to use but still powerful?

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>>54918315
>using the old pasta and links

>>54945217
Maybe it's time consuming to use. Like, you have to dedicate your entire turn to casting a spell. Bigger "fuck this guy" spells might take even longer to cast.

>>54945078
Actually, I'd say it'd be one if the closest things to lore to explain it. Most bands in Mordheim are just mercs and treasure hunters, most wouldn't have the coin or prestige to have a large creature like that at their service when first entering the ruins. So finding a lost artifact to summon them, or capturing and binding them in the wild makes a lot of sense. Some of the more esoteric ones you could even say that they were on a caravan to a nobleman or the Imperial zoo when something happen and the monster broke free, wandering Mordheim's ruins.

>>54944676
Not a fan of the custom dice.
>>54943831
It needs a way to place and subvert agents covertly.

>>54936638
Fair enough, I appreciate the comment.

>>54947031
I'm ok with them, if it a board game. The idea that its contained and already has everything you should need. But I hate it when its something like miniatures game, where they are an extra purchase or they don't give you enough in the starter set. I'm looking at you, Star Trek Attack Wing, with your one set of 5 dice and several ways in the core set to get higher than that.

>>54930050
So following up on this, there's been something I've been tossing around and trying to get a feel for.

I'm trying to add an armor mechanic, as something to make the Knights Templar and Cabalist factions stand out in Hellsgate, without relying on stat bloat. I've had 2 ideas on how to represent the protective power of the Templar's power armor.

The first is stolen from Malifaux, where the inspiration for the damage tracts came from. Its simply that every point of armor reduces the damage you take by 1, to a minimum of 1. Its really simple, but each point has a lot of weight to it, and like I said, its taken straight from another game.

The second system is that the armor has a value. When you take damage, if the damage is equal to the armor or less, you reduce the damage by 1. If its over, you take the full damage. For example, if you have an armor of 3, taking 3 or less damage is reduced, while taking 4 or more at once is applied normally. I may or may not add the minimum 1 damage clause to it. Its a bit wonkier, but it means higher armor doesn't have as big of an impact like the other rules version does.

If I'm looking at a basic level of a soldier with a rifle having 6 HP and the weapon doing 2/3/5, with a base level of either Armor(1) for Templars using the first version, or Armor(3) with the second, which feels like a better choice, taking into account this rule would apply to all Templar, not just special case ones?

Here's how the hipster life system in my card game idea works:
Each player has five "anchors" that can be attacked and damaged. When an anchor is damaged, its owner puts cards from their deck equal to the damage into it, plus one more card for each anchor they have that had more cards than that one. If your deck ever hits zero cards, you lose. "Burn" and heal effects deal with entire anchors. You either double the amount of cards in an anchor, or recycle every card in an anchor. Additionally, there is an action called "discharge" that lets you take every card from a single anchor and distribute them however you wish among their owner's anchors.

>>54918338
>How are your projects going? Any major breakthroughs? Any big news?
I've had my project reamed by a few different people. Its in the process of shifting focus and I'm never able to properly explain, but Its hardened my resolve and confirmed that I'm still on the right track with everything. I also have a few more systems to really dig into for inspiration.

>>54924455
I keep shelving different mechanics for use in other games and then bring them back because suddenly they fit again.

>>54929579
Contested d20 rolls. The difference between the rolls determines state and quality of outcome.

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I run a pretty solid STALKER shadow of chenobly group

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>>54951799

Homebrew rules too large to attach pdf

>>54951799
>>54951824
Looks cool, what scale do you guys play at?

You should upload the rules to mediafire or mega, I'm always interested in STALKER rule sets. Is it more RPG or wargame? Do your players all play on the same side vs you as DM? or do they fight against each other?

>>54949353
How about extra max health?
That's my favorite approximation even if it doesn't make much sense.

How rigid are character roles in your game? Do you have strict classes, lifepaths or playbooks, or do you gravitate toward something freeform like FATE? What are the pros and cons of each?

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Here's my simple idea so far, the players are Ghoblin Dungeon Crawlers with magictech equipment, gotta go through the Space Hulk and clean out all the mutants and recover the treasure. Kind of a streamlined simplified D&D4th edition mixed with a fantasy flight board game.

Characters have 3 stats, Grit, Triks, and Wits, each one is rated from 1 to 5. If you make a check, you roll your stat plus 2d6 to try to beat 10. There will be a very small list of skills, maybe like 4 taken somewhat from Fate accelerated, (Interact, Observe, Figure out, and Cover Up). Equipment and weapons directly adds a small bonus to your rolls.

For classes there will be a short list of a few archtypes. Each class has a list of basic skills, attacks, and abilities, plus some Advanced skills. Each PC chooses two classes and combines their abilities and weapons into a hybrid. You can pick from a skill or ability from each of your classes and then maybe get some random ones. When you level up you can select more skills, and eventually unlock your advanced class skill after some amount of levels.

As far as attacks go, each class will specialize in hitting 1 target hard, hitting more than one target, having ranged attacks, being able to counterattack, basic grid-based strategy. Have some status effect, bonuses and disadvantages tacked on to the attacks, such as changing your roll from 2d6 to 3d6 drop highest, or drop lowest.

The last thing I have to figure out is if I want hit points, or some overall metacurrency like Mission Time, if you get knocked out it costs your team and the storyline changes.

>>54954517
Predominantly free pointbuy. A small amount of compulsory skill in Language and Culture. Some soft stratification via species choice.

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>>54951871
10mm easier to have large scale open field fights

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Haven't really worked on it lately but sure.
Pardon the rough'ness, it is after all in the works and is very largely unfinished.

>>54956796
Shit sorry didn't read the entire thread.
I suppose I'm looking for ideas in base modern day equipment stats.

Not exactly game design, but I have a formatting question for my design document.

Basically I want to have a table of contents on the side of the word processer, like when reader a PDF. So its always on top except when minimized, and I can easily organize and the document and jump to the relevant section.

Is there a way to do this in standard word processors like open office, MS word, etc. or do I need specialized software?


>>54954517
I know its kind of a cop out, but it really depends on the sort of game your making. In some genres, having strict archetypes could be really ideal since the fiction tends to work that way anyway. Personally I prefer things more freeform (assuming an RPG and not some sort of cooperative board game).

Mechanically, I think its safe to assume that it would be easier to design around stricter classes, since there would be fewer interactions to worry about.

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>>54918315
How would you feel about dropping all int and cha type skills?

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I've been trying to hack together a Magical Girl conversion of Warbirds (since in Nanoha and such fights tended to boil down to dogfights with friendship lazers) and so far I've been drawing a blank on how to incorporate magic into the system. BESM seems to he the only similiar tri-stat game with magic but I hate BESM and the less I copy of it, the better. Anyone got any ideas to help me out, or should I just pluck out the combat rules of Warbirds and shove them into a more suitable system for Prepubescent Friendship Laser games

What's a good way to add recoil to guns in a dicepool system instead of just saying "you loae X dice from your pool on your next attack"

or if that is how I do it, and the average dice pool is 6, how high should X go?

>>54958928
Target number to score successes rises.

>>54959092
Interesting. I like it!

>>54958537
I'm sure you can do it on Word, but I'm not quite sure how

I'm working on a super simple dice betting game akin to liars dice. Is this the right thread to get some input / testing on it?

>>54961009
I guess I"ll just post it anyway.

Working name
> King's Keep

> Two players each have 4d6
> Roll 3d6 hidden via a cup
> Roll 1d6 out in the open
> Can either give (King) your dice to the other player, or keep (Keep) your dice

Goal is closest to 18 without going over. You can add betting to any of the steps. This started as an in-universe game for my D&D campaign, but my wife actually tried it and we've played for a bit. Tried it with a game design minded friend and he really dug it. Anyone wanna test for optimal strategies, number tweaks, etc.?

>>54962337
Do you decide to king or keep simultaneously?
Or can you see that your opponent is keeping and king him to try to get him over?

>>54963043
Each round is done simultaneously. Once giving or keeping (again, decided at the same time in dramatic fashion yelling out "King!" or "Keep!"), all dice are revealed so you have anywhere between 3-5 dice, and try not to bust on 18.

How much RP do you need in an RPG? I can easily make combat and similar rules, but I don't really make rules for interacting with other people. Exploration rules are kind of a toss up.

I just think philosophically, RP should be allowed to stay pretty freeform and doesn't need a lot of mechanical support to work. Never been a fan of "social combat" or "RP bonuses to xp".

>>54965445
>How much RP do you need in an RPG?
Totally up to you my man. There's a whole spectrum of thinking on the subject. Know your design goals, know who they appeal to and make that game.

>>54954517
I have archetypes that determine a few things at the beginning, but during the course of play you can change through addition.

I like to think of it like a track event. You start in your lane at the beginning of the race, but by the end of the race you could finish in any lane.

Are there any existing games which hybridize TTRPGs and deck-building? The concept is that instead of having a character sheet, you have a deck you build gradually by drafting cards over the course of a campaign.

I don't care if it's already been done, but if it has, it would be useful to be able to crib notes from it.

>>54932794
1. They are automatically copyrighted and are protected by default
2. The book is also copyrighted as a work in itself; if you use other people's copyrighted work you will need to negotiate royalties
3. Patents are virtually never applicable to games design, but take months
4. If you didn't copy something you're probably not in breach of copyright. In general, unless it is a trademark, anything less than a paragraph or so of text is going to be nearly impossible to protect the copyright on. Protecting the copyright on image or sound is easier, but things like photo edits and mosaic overlays are sometimes hard to successfully protect
5. If you're serious about it, miniatures could, in theory, be trademarked, but the copyright is probably all you need. That is, you are protecting the original artwork that constitutes the miniature. I don't know what would constitute protection of the miniature, maybe put it in a safe?

I really doubt you've seen people ripped off for creating something new and rich. It doesn't actually happen very often at all. On the other hand, people claim it's happened to them all the time on the internet, but they're wrong.

An important point is that you cannot trademark, copyright or patent a mechanic, you can only trademark or copyright the specific expression of the mechanic that your game uses. Anyone can use dice labelled with +/- and blank, but they have to agree to the licencing terms if they want to use the fudge logo. Anyone can use a sanity system just like Unknown Armies, as long as they write their own description of it

Hi /gdg, I really want to make a a roleplaying game where the conflict resolution is done by trick taking. Still doing research on trick taking games because I am a procrastinating fuck, but I wanted to ask: what are you favorite trick taking games? (preferably classic since I plan on using standard playing cards) and/or are there any trick taking games you know that have particularly novel/creative designs?

>>54945265
/gdg/ is a place for full-on game designers and homebrewers alike. Feel free to share your games, ideas and problems, and comment to other designers' ideas and give advice to those that need it.

Useful Links:
>/tg/ and /gdg/ specific
http://1d4chan.org/
https://imgur.com/a/7D6TT

>Project List:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/134UgMoKE9c9RrHL5hqicB5tEfNwbav5kUvzlXFLz1HI/edit?usp=sharing

>Game Design:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/1/
http://www.diku.dk/~torbenm/Troll/RPGdice.pdf
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=21479
http://www.gamesprecipice.com/category/dimensions/
http://angrydm.com/2014/01/gaming-for-fun-part-1-eight-kinds-of-fun/

>dev on /tg/ discord:
https://discord.gg/qRHhfZ6

>Online Play:
https://roll20.net/
https://www.obsidianportal.com/

>Games archive:
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/fulllist.html
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FXquCh4NZ74xGS_AmWzyItjuvtvDEwIcyqqOy6rvGE0/edit
https://mega.nz/#!xUsyVKJD!xkH3kJT7sT5zX7WGGgDF_7Ds2hw2hHe94jaFU8cHXr0

>Dice Rollers
http://anydice.com/
http://www.anwu.org/games/dice_calc.html?N=2&X=6&c=-7
http://topps.diku.dk/torbenm/troll.msp
http://www.fnordistan.com/smallroller.html

>Tools and Resources:
http://www.gozzys.com/
http://donjon.bin.sh/
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/
http://ebon.pyorre.net/
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/carto.html
http://topps.diku.dk/torbenm/maps.msp
http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/demo.html
https://mega.nz/#!ZUMAhQ4A!IETzo0d47KrCf-AdYMrld6H6AOh0KRijx2NHpvv0qNg

>Design and Layout
http://erebaltor.se/rickard/typography/
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4qCWY8UnLrcVVVNWG5qUTUySjg&usp=sharing
http://davesmapper.com

Had this saved, how old is this one?

>>54968176
Sounds like MegaMan Battle Network, which is a pretty cool vidya. Don't know of any published RPGs that've pulled it off, but I've heard of some anons with similar ideas.

>>54918338
Misfortune is nearing completion, somewhat. Still needs editing, layout and for Pilgrim to finish the art.

I might hire a freelance editor, because standard rates make it cost only like 60 bucks for me, due to Misfortune being so goddamn short.

Any tips on advertising? The game is fairly unique in some aspects (The core of the game is basically the players actively hampering their own progress, for laughs and experience points), the whole idea of the game might not sit with a lot of people. It's a niche product, to say the least, but like with Chunky Salsa, how do you advertise something that people don't know even exists as a thing?

>>54963212
>>54962337
>>54961009

Bumpan for critique

>>54969299
Euchre is best.
Hearts a shit

>>54969863
Consider expanding it so more people can play simultaneously.

>>54969840
There's non-chunky salsa?

>>54969937
Do you feel any of the mechanics would have to change to incorporate more people?

With every extra person, you just have to consider one person getting completely targetted and shafted by everyone dumping their dice on them.

>>54949353

In your example, with the two armor systems as written, the second system is categorically inferior. In fact, it is only ever better if you do allow it to reduce to zero, and if there is a reasonable spread of 1 damage attacks. Compared to the Malifaux system I think it probably adds complexity for fairly little benefit, unless the idea of armor being useless against powerful attack is something you feel is important in the feel of your mechanics.

Can I suggest a split compromise, if you do want armor to feel like it has a 'failure point'? Give armor two components, a skill threshold and a damage value. Have armor only apply up to a given 'tract value' (assuming all damage has three steps, then its just 1/2/3, but not sure how high you expect explosions to go) and have applied armor reduce damage to 1 unless the damage exceeds the armor value, then apply it in full. So a strong breastplate might be 1/4; it only applies to a minimally successful attack, but in this case it reduces all damage of 4 or less down to 1. A full mailshirt and coif might be 2/2, and a suit of articulated plate might be 3/5, making it extremely difficult to injure the wearer without overwhelmingly high damage or an exploded success (effectively allowing the possibility of a four-success roll finding the armpit, groin or similar)

>>54969965
I fucked up, it wasn't salsa, it was pasta sauce.

http://contentmarketinginstitute.com/2011/03/content-marketing-diversification/

Based on the fact that extra chunky pasta sauce did not exist before Moskowitz. Similarly, I don't think a game with the same thematic core as Misfortune has ever existed. Or if has, I've completely missed it. Like, some games veer into the same category, like TOON, Paranoia and Everyone is John, but I don't really think they come close to what the game is actually about.

Because I'm trying to make failure the main enjoyment of the game, and surprise the second. And not surprise from the GM-to-player, but from player-to-player. The players don't know much about each other's characters, but they can weave their backstories into the game fluently by adding stuff retroactively to their character sheet. Like if the old sage in robes is revealed to be a Shaolin Monk and kicks serious ass from now on.

>>54970025
>With every extra person, you just have to consider one person getting completely targetted and shafted by everyone dumping their dice on them.
Its not a very elegant solution, but you could avoid this by playing the game like emperor MTG (at least I think thats what that game type is called, haven't played in years) where you can only target people sitting adjacent to you emperor mtg is also done in teams, but that isn't something you want

Or you could make it so that King only works on the person sitting adjacent and clockwise from you.

>>54970239
I like that. I'll first test it with the rule of only being able to King the dice to an adjacent player.

>>54970025
Probably. The easiest solution would to have a Hearts-like mechanic where exceeding a certain number also becomes a win.

Another option is to gather all "donated" dive into its own pool, and if the dice reach a certain threshold then it's the lowest total that wins rather than the highest.

I just don't personally see much value in a two player party game

>>54970307
Having a significant other and an infant reveals a lot of that value :)

>>54970318
That's a whole different kind of party

>>54924455

Let me share some words of wisdom I heard years ago:

>What are you working on anon?

I have several projects in various stages of development.

So I'm putting together a system based heavily on the FF 40krpg systems, but with a setting that's a bit more accessible to normies (Less conforming to the imperium, being able to play as aliens, stuff like that).

I've been tinkering with the idea of having passice stat bonuses be given by the Characters background, and havung the racial bonuses be mostly activated abilities.

How well do racial activated abilities work, in practice? I tried to make them broadly applicable, like the [space elf] being able to enter a trance for one minute, getting a large bonus the whatever skill that [space elf] has chosen to specialize in. Or humans being able to apply +10 or -10 to any roll, even one they didn't make (humans are famously the luckiest bastards in the galaxy).

>>54918315
>Instead of rolling for initiative each turn or rolling once and then keeping the order for the rest of the combat, players roll initiative for their initial position on a priority ladder
>The ladder has a limited amount of positions, an action that would move you too low on the ladder is considered outside of combat and the priority system
>Different actions take a different amount of time, moving them down on the priority ladder according to how much time they consumed with their action
>Whenever someone takes an action, everybody else goes up on the priority ladder one position
>More than one person can occupy the same position on the priority ladder, in that case the person who got there first acts first
>You can use actions outside of your turn as reaction to other people interacting with you, but only if there's enough space bellow you on the ladder, if there's not, you just can't react
>Reacting to things also consumes more time than acting in your turn

This is something I've been thinking about for a while, Is there any board game or RPG with a system like this?
Does it sound inherently flawed or limiting?

>>54970764
So, unless I'm misunderstanding, combats are limited on how long they can last, as everyone will eventually fall off the priority ladder? In fact, a duel will end much sooner than a mass combat, since if there's a 15-person combat, everyone moves up 14 positions each turn, whereas a 2-man duel has each duelist move up 1 position per turn and, presumably, move down more than one each action?

>>54970928
>So, unless I'm misunderstanding, combats are limited on how long they can last, as everyone will eventually fall off the priority ladder?
No, if an action would throw you outside the ladder you just can't perform it by normal means. You only fall outside the ladder with actions that would take longer than the ladder itself, in which case you're most probably acting outside of combat.
Also, the ladder's limit is a specific number independently of the amount of people present.
There's not 15 positions for 15 people, instead the 15 people spread around the ladder's positions. More people in battle simply means more people occupying the same positions in the ladder.
Take in account that this is suposed to be used for your classic RPG fight where there's rarely more than 10 people participating in a fight.

How does one go into trying to make money via making games? Go straight to a publisher? Make a Kickstarter ASAP? Post on Board Game Geek?

>>54971089
You're really not providing information to make this make sense here. I'm going to use made up values to try and illustrate my confusion:

So, for example, let's say that a basic attack takes three 'ticks'.
There are less than 15 positions on the ladder, so lets say 14.

Duelist A gets an 11 for initiative, Duelist B gets a 7

A attacks, dropping to 8, B does not respond, so rises to 8
A acts again, attacking B and dropping to 5, B does not respond, so rises to 9
B Attacks A, dropping to 6, A parries, which presumably takes at least 4 ticks (more than an attack on his turn) so drops 4 and rises 1, ending on 2
B attacks A, who cannot parry due to not enough ticks. B drops to 3, A rises to 3
B attacks A, who cannot parry, B drops to 0, A rises to 4
A attacks B, who cannot parry, A drops to 1, B rises to 1

Combat over

Obviously, the numbers here are entirely flippant, but hopefully this makes my question clearer.

>>54970471
I'm not sure what you are asking for.

>>54970764
It reads like a more cumbersome version of an action wheel like in exalted. Having to move up every non acting entity by one for each action seems like a chore.

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Made some corrections and improvements

>What differentiates this shitpile from any other system out there ?
The need for speed with just a dash of complexity. I’m not satisfied by other sub-20page systems and one-pagers don’t satiate my autism. I find it a lot more intuitive and I think this is the best I can do with a d6 dice pool. I also wanted a small system that can be played solo (if you are so inclined, it is possible but characters have a very short expiration date), played with rotating GMs in a Gauntlet (one GM per Encounter), and used for an actual longer game too.
I’ve spent 4 years making this system, going over 15ish editions and uncounted revisions and edits, and as always, it’s never good enough.

any critique is appreciated, steal anything you like

>>54971353
Third option is closest to the truth. If you want to make money, you need to establish an audience BEFORE you try to swindle them into buying yet another RPG book. There are some breakouts, but I'd look at Vincent Baker, Luke Crane or John Harper as models of indie success who built a name before releasing a book into the ether.

Of course, if you want to actually make MONEY off RPGs (as in, replace salaried employment with selling make believe how-tos), turn back now.

I've been thinking of going with race-as-class for my rules-medium narrative-focused game. Basically every race has been massively warped by various types of magic, and there are no "normal" people left. Each of the four stats gives your race a unique power; higher stat means you are better at that power. For example:

>Deep Nomads (somewhere between drow and drider)
>Force: Undergo the Deep Rite, temporarily becoming a hulking spiderbeast.
>Guile: Evaporate into smoke for a short time.
>Presence: Whisper one word in the Deep Tongue to make another succumb to their violent impulses.
>Insight: Steal a secret from the mind of another.

>Sand-scoured (been in the desert so long their physical bodies were scoured away by sand; their souls live in enchanted clothes)
>Force: Constrict another with your lashing shroud.
>Guile: Change your shroud into a disguise.
>Presence: Weave lies as sweet as your shroud is beautiful.
>Insight: Enchant the clothes of another, temporarily imparting your other three abilities to them.

These are just off the top of my head. Because the game uses stat arrays, all characters will be good at one power, mediocre at two and bad at the remaining one. I've also thought about paring this with an additional class that has less esoteric, more focused abilities but I'm not sure.

>>54973057
>Each of the four stats gives your race a unique power; higher stat means you are better at that power.
Do these stats also matter for purposes other than that power?

>I've also thought about paring this with an additional class that has less esoteric, more focused abilities but I'm not sure.

So each character would have a racial class and a more traditional class? This could work out well, but it really depends if you prefer more freeform or more constricted character building.

>>54971572
I'm asking if activated racial abilities work better or are more fun than passive bonuses.

Like, race A are known for their ability to use animals. A passive ability would a constant +10 to animal handling. And activated ability is that x times per day, race A can speak to animals.
The activated is more directly powerful, but limited in uses per day.

Like, if instead of a D&D dwarf getting a +2 to knowledge checks due to stonesense, they can instead once a day learn who built a something, the type of stone it is, and get a general feel for the layout.

>>54973586
>Do these stats also matter for purposes other than that power?
Yeah, they're how you do everything. Each one is representative of a nonspecific collection of verbs, and when your character wants to use those verbs, they roll that stat.

Want to bash, leap, intimidate or shout down? Roll Force.

Want to sneak, lie, gamble or manipulate? Roll Guile.

Want to convince, hobnob, inspire or gird? Roll Presence.

Want to debate, research, calculate or know? Roll Insight.

These are not the only verbs in the game, like a skill list; any verb falls under one of these four stats.

>>54973587
Oh, that makes WAY more sense than your first post

Idunno, most races give what you call passive buffs in the rpgs I've played. I think I remember seeing a greentext screenshot of an anon talking about it being more fun to actively dwarf your way through obstacles, but I never saved it.

>>54973587
How do a Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Mage and Cleric look like in a single race? Or do you think more along the lines of Elf and Dwarf from old D&D, such as all your Deep Nomads being Illusionist Rogues and Sand People being Warrior Bards?
So if someone wants to play a regular warrior, you show him the Rhino-people option?

If you want to make race and archtype specific unique classes, that's gonna be shitload of work. What are Deep Nomad Fighters like and how are they called? And how are they significantly different from Sand Rogues? Do they use different skills or have signature moves?

The D&D's race as class was left behind because someone wanted to roll a Dwarf Cleric or an Elf Wizard, or a Dwarf Rogue or an Elf Cleric. It's a natural step in the progression of allowing the separation of race and class. Going back means you're going to have to differentiate your races and within them, differentiate the classes they can be.

>>54973665
Love the stats.

>>54973587
>I'm asking if activated racial abilities work better or are more fun than passive bonuses.

I think that a mix of the two is probably best, and that you should good with whatever is more flavorful.

For instance, I think D&D's dragonborn's breathe attack is fun and flavorful, even if it isn't necessarily that strong. On the other hand, I could say the same thing about elves having to rest half as long which I kind of wish would be explored more in D&D settings which is almost certainly a passive bonus.

There are also plenty of racial abilities that could be either. For example, a race that could fly. I think one could make a good argument for flight to be either a passive or active ability, and I'm sure it would really add to the character (and how race shapes how the character interacts with the game world).


Personally, in the past I played around with giving each race a unique racial stat, but found that in the end it didn't fit all the races I wanted in the setting.

>>54973697
Not race as a class. Just races that give you a few starting skills and a neat power. Like being lucky, entering a trance, or spitting acid.

The majority of what defines a character would be their background (Which is where they get their trait bonuses, like +x stength -x intelligence), and their career (class).

That way, I don't run into the problem of one race always being the best choice for certain classes.

>>54973836
>Flying
I always liked how raptorans handled flying. You could glide a lot, but you could only fly for a few rounds at a time.

And yeah, mix is probably best, and will vary from race to race. My test build for Space Orcs is pretty much all passives.

>+10 to persuasion checks if you're bigger than the person you're persuading
>+10 to saves made to resist suffocation, starvation, pain, fear, poison, and death
>All medical tests are one step easier when being performed on you

Thoughts on this concept for a board / card game:

Basically taking a Risk style approach to combat (Opposed Attack / Defense dice roll), but looking at the combat resolution of tabletop rpg's like D&D.


Theme: Tournament of King's / everyone plays a knight in a tournament
Players: 2-6

Each player has 4 "slots" or can put four equipment cards into play. Equipment cards consist of weapons (Swords, axes, Hammers, etc.) and armor (Leather, Plate, Shields etc). They're all dealt X (say 5) cards, and can keep up to 4. Whoever wants can mulligan and draw one less. At that point, they're stuck with those 4, and puts them into play.

Now onto the combat. Each weapon and armor affects your dice rolls by allowing you to add more dice to either the attack or defense roll. You spend your turn playing an action card (things like Attack, Disarm, Block, etc.). Players roll against each other.

This is really a high concept / word vomit at this point, trying to pin things down. Any suggestions on the following?

> "Hit Points" or how to deal with determining a winner
> Drawing cards in between rounds.
> Having armor / equipment affect "speed" (like speed factor initiative variant in D&D
> Floating modifiers (dagger gives +1, Greatsword +4 on roll) vs. extra dice (dagger gives +1 dice, Greatsword + 3 dice on roll)

The ideal flow is

> Everyone preps first
> Players take turns attacking each other
> Last person standing wins

At this point, combat would be like
> I attack Player B.
> I roll 3d6, they roll 2d6
> Highest roll wins
> "damage" or losing player loses some kind of resource, I dunno.

>>54973587
Active and passive abilities will appeal to different player personalities mostly.

Maybe consider that active abilities can encourage the "adventuring day" where players habitually wait for the refresh.

It does however seem easier to slip into a stronger gameism influence with active abilities.
The x times per day limitation on something like speak to animals is a step more abstract in its ingame justification. Why is an ability based on talking limited? Your example is a more arbitrary style less grounded less in physics or even magic as a form of physics. It operates more under narrative or game logic. It is something to consider how this specific style of active abilities changes tone and implications for the game world.

In summery maybe I can express a preference for active abilities that give new tools and options, but have no ammunition count build in, when there is nothing physical or pseudophysical being used up. Although an ability at will may be "passive" depending on definition.

>>54974206
The speak with animals thing was just an example, really. But I see your point.

For some things, like entering a battle trance or just being lucky, having an ammo count works. For other things, not as much.

>>54971397
I see the problem here.
Wait I failed completely to convey is that the one who attacks isn't the one with the higher priority, but the one in the first position of the ladder. If the first position is empty, everybody escalates until there's somebody in that position.

>>54958537
If I recall if you use the heading feature in Google Docs, (click "Normal Text to see the headings"
It automatically makes a list your describing based on the headings you produce.
Hope this is what you were looking for.

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bump

pic unrelated

>>54951882
That's what I'm trying to avoid, though.

>>54970060
Honestly, I'm not married to the idea of have to have the breaking point mechanic. I may just keep it simple, and just make sure I change the wording from Malifaux's. Or I may also use the compromise and just say armor only applies to the first 2 damage brackets, make it so the last bracker represents overwhelming success in an attack.

I also want to revisit crits and the effect they have.

>>54970207
Moskowitz's pasta sauce thing is really fascinating, and something important when it comes to marketing. I was just recently watching a video about it and how it would apply to the current market of video games.

>>54971353
Depends on the game. As mentioned, you need an audience for your RPG before you can sell it (see Song of Swords - they posted here on /tg/ for literally years before successfully kickstarting in 2017). If it's a game with a material aspect, like a board, cards, etc... you could sell it straight away based on the strength of its looks. I've seen some projects which were completely unknown beforehand go ham just because they struck the right chord in their kickstarter. Some producers (like GameCrafter) even have partnership deals, where they'll help promote your game for free if you sign a contract locking them in as the producer. GameCrafter had an 80% success rate on this program last time I looked at it, although the take-home margin for the creator is razor-thin... but it might be a good way to get your name out there.

>>54944676
Is it sort of like DiceMasters where you draft the dice, or something else? Also, from a purely material perspective, custom dice are costly. How many would be in the base game?

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How much trust does your game put in the participants (players and/or GM)?

A week or two ago, I made a thread about metacurrency and commented that in my budding game, players reward each other instead of being handed rewards by the GM. Most of the replies were along the lines of, "But what stops the players from instantly giving each other infinite rewards?" My best answer was that my game is written under the assumption that the players want to have a good time and trusts them to follow its spirit as opposed to "exploiting bugs" in the system, whereas most anons expected something along the lines of 3.PF which has excessive, exhaustive rules for every possible thing specifically for this reason.

Where do you fall on the "I trust the participants" to "I write rules so that I do not have to trust the participants" spectrum? Why?

>>54979053
I think that's a neat idea and totally worth exploring. If people want to "game" the system by giving each other infinite bennies it should be a self solving problem when they realize they're not having fun anymore. Maybe as a precaution just make them less powerful than traditional metacurrencies so there's less pressure of "oh shit, Dan is gonna bite it, maybe I'll make up an excuse to give him a get out of jail free card"

>>54979053
You know, I'm one of those "the tighter the rules, the better" kind of guys, but since there is no real competitiveness in a RPG like that, its not hurting anyone to have a system like that. Its up to the group to decide if its abused or not, anyway, and even if it is, its only affecting their own experience.

>>54979053
It's a very complex question with a lot of unknowns, especially how different tables work.
I think most people are good and won't abuse such a system, and have tried to have both the players and the GM reward roleplay XP. Though, players can't be expected to hand out gear and treasure meaningfully and with some modicum of balance.
And with rotating GMs, players (not-full-time-GMs) often don't know the system well enough to run encounters well (had this problem very recently, a miniboss that should've been a small bump in the road was the hardest thing we fought for months, his nigh-impenetrable defense making combat a slog and very unfun).

You can't trust them with implementing mechanics and balancing encounters/treasure/gain, sadly, 'cause that takes reading and experience they just might not yet have.
You can trust players and everyone with being good people at the table and attempting to give meaningful rewards and share their treasure right.

"Bug-exploiting" doesn't happen in real games IMO, they're just fun thought experiments.

>>54979100
I actually just stole it from Tenra Bansho Zero and Golden Sky Stories, but great games that should definitely be read by aspiring designers. They come from a very, very different place than most Western games.

>>54979369
I also limit it by having a set amount that can be in the game at any one time. Also holding onto it gives you no benefit but spending it gives it to the GM for their own uses, so you can't simply recycle it without inviting wrath.

>>54979805
>Though, players can't be expected to hand out gear and treasure meaningfully and with some modicum of balance.
Agreed. I thought about this a lot and realized that players can understand the immediate effects of a currency but probably not the long-term implications of some really fancy weapon or armor.

I find that "exploiting bugs" is language applied to a lot of hyper-trad or rules heavy games, especially 3.PF, because the complex rule framework encourages players to assume it is comprehensive and therefore any exclusion is a "bug" to be "exploited" for gain because "it's the rules!" I think these kinds of games encourage rules lawyering for that reason.

>>54980801
sometimes the GMs actually fuck up and need to be rules lawyered
not all GMs out there are kind, thoughtful or just

>>54980909
Sure, but is it worth designing your entire game around spiteful behavior?

>>54981550
well, yeah, if it's made to be played at tournaments and cons, and that's exactly what 3ed was, and pathfinder society after that

personally i don't like these but i appreciate that they designed these with such a plan in mind

>>54981550
I actually tried prototyping a game that worked like this.

So in most "normal" games, you have players that control characters and a GM that controls everything else. There's a little competition for the spotlight here and there, but overall players cooperate towards a mutual goal.

This game's premise was that the GM controls a singular character while the players control outside forces. The players cooperate just enough to fulfill their own individual plans. Players still had stats and the like, but stats were abstract. Upon a scene ending, instead of the player (A) choosing their own stats to change, all other players chose how many points were lost or gained. The catch is that Player A gets to then reassign the inverse of each stat lost or gained into a new stat. If we take DnD stats for example, lets say the player has 18-12-13-10-10-9. The rest of the table resents Player A's high strength, so they lower it by 10. The table also knows Player A doesn't use Charisma very well, so they'll boost it by 7. After all the stats are or aren't changed, Player A gets to reassign the inverse to new stats. Player A decides to put 10 into Int and reduce Con by 7 for a new stat spread of 8-12-6-20-10-16. Player A went from playing a powerful Fighter to a frail Wizard.

I didn't get too much further than that, but I still think it has some promise whenever I get around to working more on it.

>>54979053
I might normally say that you should trust your players, especially when I'm a player, because as a player I want group cohesion and I trust myself to give equivalent rewards.

But as a Designer, and less so as a DM, all it takes is looking at a freeform RP board for that ideal to crash and burn faster than Icarus. When designing my game, after being well familiar with the horror stories of 3.pf and Ars Magica (its magic system is both a blessing and a curse), I instantly latched onto bounded accuracy and having well-defined nuts and bolts. I really like the idea of freeform magic, and I'm not super big into needing rules for rp, so I settled on having a system where people can break down the effects of a spell into small chunks and rearrange them as they see fit. Players can combine any number of effects or modifications as long as the total cost stays within your Magic stat's allotment, and the spell effects exist in the first place. I've expanded that idea into a lot of other mechanics in the game, including weapons, armor, actions in combat, character growth, and more. In my mind, its like a kitchen. You can make whatever you want as long as you use the ingredients in this cupboard. There's still a lot of room for creative expression, but both the designer and GM will know what ingredients are in that cupboard.

As far as rewards, I trust the GM with running the game as they see fit. I put more trust into the GM as I would the players, but I also figure I'll want to add in a bunch of tables so that it might be possible to run without a GM. In that case, Players would get full trust, as they are all now part GM and will run the game as well as they deserve. I try to write my rules to guide participants towards the intended playstyle, but I also know I can't really stop anyone from doing anything once its out of my hands.

>>54971353
Publish your game on Wargame Vault or DriveThru RPG. instant moneys provided people actually buy it.

>>54968221

Thank you for the reply.

>>54977936
Yeah, who could really know if there are some untapped avenues in the world of game design, both vidya and tabletop. The problem with Tabletop at least is that people dismiss most research on the subject matter, so drawing conclusions is actually pretty hard.

We need a Moskowitz to test this stuff. And with more axes than something like GNS, including things like rules-depth, player participation and GM prep amount.

>>54984535
Forgot to namefag.
Nonetheless, now I'm wanting to make some sort of pasta template, that allows for different levels of rules-depth, GNS, player narration, fate points etc...

I would kind of want to get to testing these things, but it would require a research team and probably some university backing. Making any kind of generalization would require at least 500 people playing 5 different sessions, with each player choosing one of the rulesets they play with. Then see the demographics and compare the ones that get most votes.

Although, doing a study like this is very hard due to human nature. Even if the rules weren't that great, people might greatly prefer the sessions that had something great happening in them.

Maybe a 5-session pre-written campaign then? I dunno, I'll leave the research to the researchers, I'm just a game designer.

What's a good name for a stat that is used for toughness and stamina?

My other stats have names like Might, Grace and Instinct and I'm trying to figure out a good name that fits with them.

>>54987765
Vigor?

Interesting, because my next game project would have both Might and Grace as stats. They're Might, Grace, Knowledge and Heart currently.

>>54987934
Vigor works nicely, thanks.

I've got Might, Grace, Guile?, Instinct, Vigor and (some sort of knowledge/logic stat). No physical/mental divide in there, many of them are used for both kinds of actions.

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Friends, please help.

I am no nubile to PnPs of all spectra. However in endeavoring to create my own system, I am having trouble finding purchase on the slope of mechanic creation. I can think of hundreds of different systems to inspire my mechanics, but its so difficult for me to decide exactly which best embodies the ''feel'' of my game.

How do you guys decide upon which mechanics ensoul both the aesthetics and pacing of your game?

I REALLY like the idea of a 5 dots system for skills and actually most of the mechanics, but I've tried a few tweaks of existing systems (mainly white wolf) and found them wrong for my goals.

Can anyone think of more systems with 5 dot or 0-5 tick skills/attributes/echelons?

>>54989915
Exalted

>>54991407
I assume you're being purposely unhelpful, but I was under the impression that Exalted was basically the same as WoD when it comes to skill checks and such. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>54992057
>Can anyone think of more systems with 5 dot or 0-5 tick skills/attributes/echelons?
I just named a system which I know contains 5 dots and dicepools.

>>54992236
Fair enough, sorry I assumed you were trolling.

I thought they were basically the same system, just flavored for totally different aesthetics.

I'm trying to build a 5 tick system WITHOUT dicepools (something I was remiss in omitting in my OP).

So far it seems impossible, but nothing should be impossible, so instead my brain just hurts.

>>54992274
Exalted is no World of Darkness product, it's Onyx Path not White Wolf. I can't make claims about the actual mechanics.

In order to achieve a granularity of 5/6 steps you can look at any kind of mechanic and just scale down the numbers and die sizes.

A simple d10+modifiers resolution perhaps?

>>54992425
Wow, I really should revise my original assertation:
>" I am no nubile to PnPs of all spectra "
As I really thought Exalted was a White Wolf product.

I wonder if a simple d10 + modifiers game wouldn't have issues with dice curves though.

>>54992530
d10 has flat probability, what may be perfectly alright for your game. /tg/ likes to fawn over bell curves, but I think they are not always necessary.

>>54992671
Related thought but perhaps a bit out of left field:

I keep thinking that a character's ability in any certain field should be MORE important than the dice roll. So using a d10 or even a d6 with a 5 dot system still overshadows character ability by having a larger dice than that. But now I'm realizing that D&D and most popular RPGs have VASTLY larger dice than skill modifiers, which is making me question my entire existence.

>>54992970
Well, if you emphasize the static ability/skill values over the roll you make the outcome more predictable.

>>54993136
I guess I'm surprised more games DON'T do this. Shouldn't a trained warrior be fairly consistent with his attacks or a dexterous athlete usually make roughly the same distance jumps?

I guess it takes a bit of uncertainty out of the game, which I'm sure is part of the fun, but it definitely makes it less swingy.

I think I'm having a mental breakdown trying to dev my own system. I wish I had a game-dev hotline.

>>54970764
Check out the feng shui sequence-shot method of initiative. Sounds like a simpler version of what you're going for that still preserves the idea of fluid initiative.

>>54993188
Consistency is ultimately defined by the percentage of successes.

d20+10 against a dc of 15 is 80% likely to succeed, unskilled guy 30%. Although the skill is half the die size there is still a substantial amount of success gained by skill, a solid 50% more. A bigger die doesn't automatically make character abilities a trivial component.

>>54993409
this, also consistency is good for balance but not great for fun. If you are able to build a character whose skill points cause him to succeed regardless of dice roll not only is there not point to rolling dice but there's also no point to playing since the outcome is already determined.

>>54992425
>>54992530
Another way would be to alter the scaling of the dots, like in a logrithmic, factorial, or Fibonacci sequence manner. If you only want 5 dots, log 2 could get you results of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16. Factorial scaling would be 1, 3, 6, 10, 15. Fibonacci would be (1), 1, 2, 3, 5, 8. Any would allow for a much greater range, but achieved in only 5 steps.

>>54993975
My math terminology is a little rusty, so here's some preemptive clarification:

Logarithmic scaling is exponential, so by log 2 it's doubling the previous number.
Factorial should be triangular number instead. You add a given number with every number less than it down to 0. Skill 5=(5+4+3+2+1).

>>54994111
>>54993975
>>54993759
>>54993409
Oh boy. I was trying to stay simple, but honestly the more ''simple'' I try to get, the more complicated it actually gets. Obviously Fibonacci sequences calculated on the fly is a no-go for players, but if I could work it intrinsically into the rules it could work. As for less chance, I can see how that would make the game way less fun.

I want there to be a large difference between, say, four and five dots, however one number doesn't seem able to make a huge difference. Hence why >>54993975 anon seems to be on the money.

Seriously, how am I the only person that actually gets a little bit of anxiety from this? Its cool and really stressful at the same time. I guess I have my work cut out for me.

Feel free to suggest really simple systems with nice utility for different settings. Mainly I'd like to be able to use the same, or similar mechanics for everything in the game, instead of a different system for every different action like Gurps.

>>54994525
You could fiddle with each dot giving larger and larger bonuses the the number/size of dice you roll but at that point why not just raise the dot limit from 5 to 10? That way you get more granularity of dot power levels and can have a easier to display difference in power between 1 dot and 10 dots.

>>54994525
If you don't expect the scale to change, you can just hard code the numbers in. All you'd need to do is define skill ranks and skill bonuses. Rank 4 = +10. Rank 5 = +15. Information like they could be written in rolls or on a character sheet so there's little confusion.

>>54994875
>phoneposting
You can explicitly write the information in the /rules/. It won't matter whether you use logarithmic, triangular, Fibonacci, or any other scaling. Players don't need to know what scaling is used in order to play. They just need to know that Rank 1 = x and Rank 4 = y.

Ok so this is REALLY thinking outside the box, but I'm intrigued by it. Whether or not it fits my system, just as an idea in general.

What if the dots give the ability to do completely different things per level. Like 3 dots allows you to attack in a certain way, and 4 in a completely new way, the way an amateur swordsman couldnt even attempt some maneuvers of a master.

Obviously this is a really rough idea but I'm intrigued by the mechanic.

Also thank you guys, this might be one of the most civil threads on the board right now.

>>54994957
You are looking at more of a skill tree then.

Working on a pvp party game, where combat is resolved with opposed dice rolls a la risk, and dice pools for attack and defense. Anything like that out there I can study for inspiration?

>>54992970
>But now I'm realizing that D&D and most popular RPGs have VASTLY larger dice than skill modifiers
3rd and 4th edition D&D most certainly do have larger bonii than dice, it's one of their big problems. It is possible, with a straightforward build and by-the-book item progression to have an attack roll of 1d20+25 by level 10.

>>54995437
imo the bonus should never go above 75% of the die range, so a +15 on a d20. Better to keep it at around 50% of a die.

>>54995092
I've seen some where pools roll successes and then you compare, but nothing with direct comparison of dice. I've tried it before, but wasn't happy with the direct comparison way.