In a universe where gods are very clearly real and very obviously

>>54892467
Because some Gods have very high standards and some people have problems with the members of the religion, like a fanatic adventurer burning your family alive for being apostates or something.

Some will not follow out of faith, but out of fear.

>>54892467
>very obviously capable of granting their followers divine power
This is where you fucked up.
You are implying that gaining that power is as simple as going to church on the Sabbath and saying your prayers every night.

>>54892467
Just because gods exist I don't have to like them or their followed requirements be a reasonable trade for their boons.

Religion's opposite isn't atheism, religion's opposite is an ideology that wants to see the gods cast down.

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The very same reason people aren't religious IRL despite the benefits organized religion brings -- politics; infighting within the religion; prejudice and bias; hard work; strict tenants; a toxic fanbase; too many restrictions; can't eat delicious pork; etc.

Ask yourself why religions are successful when people have doubted the existence of gods since antiquity, then ask yourself what would change if people no longer doubted the existence of said gods.

>>54892467
Gods have conflicting agendas, sucking up with one too much will upset the others.

>>54892495
That's another thing. If the gods are observant and heavy handed enough to take away a paladin's powers, you would think any asshole committing atrocities in the name of his patron would be struck by lightning before he set fire to the first cottage.

>>54892467
No one likes an ass-kisser.

>>54892467
Gods might be choosy.

>>54892540
Even if it's not, why would you not pick one of the large catalogue of omnipotent, omniscient deities to give you a helping hand. If all you have to do for a crop of bigger, sweeter apples every year is build a church to the harvest god and follow the rules they put down, you'd think every farmer would make that a priority. Soldiers would all pray to the war gods, sailors to the sea gods. Even vargants would have Avandra or something similar. Nobody who wants to live an easier life would be smart not to pray to something.

>>54892495
But the afterlife is infinite. If there are provably gods, and is provably an afterlife that can be improved by worshipping these gods, why not put up with that shit?

If you're only worshiping for the divine powers, are you really faithful?

>>54892555
It's never the case in any fantasy world, to my knowledge, that all the gods are at each other's throats at all times. If it is, I'm sure it's a grim and dark world. That being the case, most gods are happy to form pantheons, meaning you can just sort of feel out which Saturday morning cartoon lineup suits you best.

>>54892550
People still wouldn't be any more faithful because DnD-eque gods aren't about religion or Faith, they are political parties.

Sure, there'll be a lot people who throw themselves down before a greater power, but you'll also have greedy bastards making the motions for personal gain and people begrudgingly going along to avoid lightning to the face.

>>54892467
>Yeah, the Gods are real. Real bastards that is.

>>54892691
If you know for a fact that the gods are real, can there be faith at all?

>>54892467
Most persons would be. You would have a small group of people that are functionally atheists. They won't deny that the beings most people call gods exist but they either don't believe they are gods (just powerful beings that have not created the world, these divine powers are really close to magic after all...) or denying them worship because they reject their rule as tyrannical.

For that to happen you probably need an urbanized culture with a developed academia though.

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>>54892467
The average person doesn't have time to spend all day praying. Like in real life, most societies will probably have a professional class of priests who perform the necessary rites and rituals on behalf of everyone else. From this class a small number are picked to have special powers.

The average farmer is likely to engage more with his ancestors and local spirits than the gods proper, leaving them to the professionals, except during special occasions like festivals or when he needs a special favour.

>>54892572
You would think so. If ony that was the way it worked.
>>54892687
Living as a slave forever to a cruel god or living a short life as a free person. Some people would rather tell the gods to go fuck themselves.

>>54892467
Because Gods might not be worthy of devotion

>>54892746
But if praying to Avandra means safe travel, wouldn't every merchant in the world pray to her?

>>54892680
Because as has already been stated, not everyone wants to devote their life to such a thing.
You are still working on the assumption you can gain power for lip service, when all the examples you can pull from demand high obedience to dogma, the devotion of your life and efforts AND be chosen.
>>54892691 called it, you aren't faithful, you are treating it like a business transaction.

>>54892680
In what setting?

If praying to a God gives you powers/benefits, sure, it would be stupid not to do it. But if you have to commit your life entirely and perform a serie of rituals, following religiously rules and ways of living, etc (like what clerics in D&D do) lots of people wont do because they lack the wealth, the time, the patience, etc

>>54892748
You'd have to have a lot of spite in you to tell a guy who says "Don't murder, don't steal, don't fuck your sister, and give me a bowl of fruit twice a year and you can hang out in my space garden full of wine and acid jazz music" to go fuck himself

>>54892780
Or, it's a case, the way it actually is in D&D, where people pray to gods that rule over certain aspects of the world, but that doesn't mean that god will pay attention to you and your circumstance.

>In a world with magic why isn't everybody a wizard? you only have to study for your entire life in a prestigious and expensive as fuck magic school

Because rather than be devout followers most lower class normal folk where be more focused on staying the course, keeping their heads down and simply not pissing them off.

In no story of mortals interacting with god does shit end without some kind of incident

>>54892813
It takes talent and skill to be a wizard. It takes fifteen minutes to pray

>>54892467
Some people refuse to give their lunch money, even if they'll get beat up. Same thing.

>>54892822
>it takes fifteen minutes to pray
In what setting?

>>54892780
Praying is just words, anyone can do it. But if you want the gods to listen you probably go the relevant temple and ask them to make a sacrifice and perform the relevant devotions on your behalf.

>>54892822
>he's relying on a demonstrably false assumption again
Anon, if you can point to any setting, anywhere, where gaining a portion of a god's favor or power can be done simply by praying and nothing else, than you need to put that shit down now.
At this point, you are shitposting like a motherfucker.

>>54892802

>implying being a devout follower of a religion is that Easy

>its more like

>don't eat fish and on sundays, mondays and thursdays you can only eat meat from goats

>pray 6 times

>give all your money to the poor lmao

>do everything my priests tell you without questioning it

>jerking off is a sin lmao and sex only twice a month

I want to know of this wonderful setting in where praying for 15 minutes a day grants you superpowers

>>54892736
No, it would be like the Catholic church around reformation.

>Wanna get that maker's daughter as a bride? That's three praises to the goddess of love every day and a loaf of rosebread donated to the temple of the hearth every fortnight, for three months each, good sir
>trespasses a graveyard, ya lovebirds? Silver coin to the god of death and an offering to an ancestor to vouch for you. If a child comes of this, off to the maces tower
>Want your child to become a legendary hero? I'll get the form

There doesn't seem to be a lot of consensus on what being religious even involves in this case

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>>54892822
>everybody that prays deserves special powers

>>54892467
Because the gods don't fucking care for the faith of people?

The precise degree of proof matters. "god" in the Judeo-Christian sense of literal omnipotent being cannot be proven to exist but polytheistic or otherwise limited gods require much less evidence.
That said as long as your god isn't obsessively monitoring and punishing transgressions or instantly dishing out desperately needed rewards the amount of worship you *have* to show varies quite a lot by circumstances. People who are rich enough not to need divine power for example wouldn't subject themselves to any rigorous worship.
And obviously nothing can force you to feel sympathetic to the powerful force that's unilaterally decided to take over your life. For anyone who is feeling nice towards the deity they'll be someone who will feel they've not been given enough.

This is assuming perfect benevolence of all deities. As soon as one is even rumored to have fucked up you're stuck being unable to tell if the rest are just better at lying to you.

>>54892467
>Also, Paladin/Cleric thread
Ok, gonna assume you're talking about D&D and PF

Why isn't everybody devoutly religious? easy, because:
1. Not every god is worthy of devotion
2. You don't get advantages/benefits unless you literally sacrifice your entire life for the cause so why even bother

>>54892680
Gods can't just intervene willy nilly, or else the opposing pantheons could also intevene willy nilly and all the crops would have burned down in a plague of flaming locusts at the dawn of time and nobody would be around at all.

>>54892550
What benefits? And those are not the reasons I or anyone I know aren't religious.

>>54892467
Because in a world where the existance of gods is a proven fact, faith becomes irrelevant. In such a world. all a Paladin is doing is currying favour with an immortal autocrat, no different from a particularly powerful king or emperor.

And there are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to bend the knee to an emperor.

Paladins and clerics are far in between. Clerics form a very small percentage of the god's followers, they're not even all priests. They're literally people who do miracles. An average peasant might worship Pelor but he doesn't get anything for it beyond the usual benefits of religion.

>>54893707
>And there are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to bend the knee to an emperor.
Jon, fucking swallow your pride and bend the knee

Depends on how the gods are. If they're all powerful and offer actual redemption for afterlife, then sure. Most people would be devoutly religious, the exception being the usual oddjobs.
The problem is that the gods of fantasy stories aren't really like that. There's no point in being so religious over a being that could implement slightly on your crops.

>>54892544
Specially because atheism is a religion on itself.

>>54893823
Athe got some really sweet domains, why wouldn't you follow her.

>>54892467
because for all their power, the gods are just as dumb and illogical as humans
just last week I saw zeus raping som poor dame, and nobody stipped him

those sheep want to keep worshipping them? they can do it, but not me
I'm going to wizard college, bard college, heck even druid college, but I would never go willingly serve such capricious beings as a cleric

they want ny worship and respect, than they should act like gods

>>54893845
>really sweet domains
She allows her followers to conjure hats?

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>>54893000
>What benefits?
Longer life span (yep, it has been scientifically proven that religious people live longer than nonreligious people of similar means), increased likelihood of finding a good wife, a cozy and supportive social group, and cleansing of your sins, transformation of your character, and everlasting life.

>>54893849
Not to mention, most of the afterlives they promise are pretty shitty. If a soul exists for sure in your setting and there's a multitude of gods, what makes you think they're in any way directly needed for afterlife?

The direct connection between god, afterlife and soul is easy in monotheism. It sure isn't in polytheism.

For my setting, I had it that the gods while present, are fairly inscrutable. IE their desires are inconsistent and often taxing. The people that don't worship are the ones that literally lack faith, as in they're not willing to put in a bunch of work for maybe a chance at divine grace.

>>54893903
>it has been scientifically proven that religious people live longer than nonreligious people of similar means
Do this "scientifical proofs" take into account the 1.1 billion sharia law follwers?

>>54894000
Well presumably it wasn't done on animals

>>54893903
>Country with longest life span is Japan
>60% of Japan is non religious
Kay

>>54893903
As a lesbian the increased likelihood of finding a good wife and supportive social group appeals to me, where do I sign up?

>>54894047
>Unitarian Universalism
They had openly gay clergy in the 70s.

>>54894044
Add to that in 3rd world countries those with highest % of religious people are those with shortest life span

>>54893903
But if you believe for the social benefits, that's not faith.

>>54894097
Is it suddenly faith if you believe for the overt supernatural benefits?

>>54894097
Look at this fool, thinking that most people who go to church on Sunday and participate in rituals have "faith". It's a free social club that gives you great societal benefits, and an automatic boost to reputation.

The reason why the majority of atheists are angry losers is because they're autistic and they don't understand how to integrate in society.

>>54892467
What if there is a god or goddess who demands her followers mostly observe her, not by being her priests but by being good fighters?
Essentially 99% of her followers are just people that lift and train and gain and the few priests are the ones who oversee the yearly competitions and make some superficial prayers and lead the others in times of crises in exchange for some divine lightning and buff spells?
Cuz that's a religion in my setting
There's another goddess who has two types of followers, artists/creators, and the clerics who hunt werewolves and zombies
basically every religion has a following of people who don't get powers and the special clergy who does
being religious =/= being a priest
also some people just like to steal, and I haven't invented a god of stealing yet

>>54892687
This is a very specific requirement for a religious pantheon. Not many polytheistic religions require you to be devout (rather than just please them at specific times).

>>54894077
Married?

The thing that perplexes me about these threads is that, for them to exist, you have to choose to interpret fiction in the least sensible way. Of course if paying 15 minutes of lip service to a deity is enough to get you blessings it would be stupid not to do it. The fact that not everyone spends 15 minutes a day praying and that not everyone is getting blessings all day should be evidence that it's not that easy. Do you really think you're that much smarter than everyone else? That you've discovered some great loophole that has gone overlooked for decades? Or maybe, just maybe, could it be that you're barking up the wrong tree?

>>54894189
Blame it on bad DMs who have dozens of level 1-3 clerics in a tiny temple in a tiny village, instead of maybe 1 adept/expert priest with focus on religious dogma and rituals.

>>54894162
Marriage is up to the government as it should be, it's a legally binding contract that involves the state.

If you wanted to have a symbolic religious marriage, you could do it in your backyard at any point in time ever.

>>54892869
>not wanting to bust two mythic nuts a month

>>54894130
Ah. So most religious people are false worshippers who exploit the church for their own gain.

Doesn't really seem like a social club you'd want to join...

If just praying grants you powers the silly ones are Clerics, Paladins, Oracles, Inquisitors, etc who have to sacrifice their entire lives to the cause not being able to have anything else in mind than serving their God. Kek, you only need 5 min of praying a day, what a loser

>>54894363
There isn't a clear dichotomy between false and true. Plenty of mostly law abiding contributing members of society bitch about taxes, other people and laws all the time, it doesn't make them disgusting crust punks and anarchists.

>>54894414
>Look at this fool, thinking that most people who go to church on Sunday and participate in rituals have "faith". It's a free social club that gives you great societal benefits, and an automatic boost to reputation.

You literally said that most religious people don't have faith, and go to church for societal benefits. Do they have faith or not?

>>54894130
The majority of atheists integrate into society just fine because they live somewhere religion isn't the only pillar of the community. The only reason most atheists even have a reason to talk about their atheism is when some religious movement is disrupting their community, like when they protest a Planned Parenthood or whatever.

>>54892467
Because religion in most fantasy settings isn't anything like religion in the real world. The gods generally aren't presented as the sole agents of fate, merely extremely powerful actors within the grand scheme of things. There are other sources of power that don't involve dedicating yourself to a being that is limited in scope for narrative reasons.

>>54894130
Too true...

>>54894210

If the class names weren't sacred cows at this point, they really ought to have just changed cleric to prophet.

>>54892467
As far as D&D goes, the black truth of the demon lord Sertrous confirms you just need to have great faith to earn divine powers, it doesn't have to be faith to an individual. There are thusly clerics of War, of Light, of the Earth, etc.
You can be a heretic omni-atheist and still get cleric powers, if your faith in whatever non-god concept is mighty enough.

>>54894044
>>54894086
You obviously have to compare irreligious and religious people in the same country to get any meaningful data. Comparing all religious and all irreligious people worldwide is dumb because it doesn't take into account regional living standards. I'm personally agnostic but it's a fact that religious people live longer on average all other things being equal. (presumably because they are part of a local community and support structure that's looking out for them, not to mention the happiness that faith can bring)

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>>54892467
Part 2/3 of pic related, that's why. Any gods blatant enough to be objective facts are almost always assholes.

>>54892467
>people have problem with the god's motives/his stand on things
>god grants power only to a select few
>you need to perform some complicated rituals
>god is a fucking lolsorandumb dick most of the time and he thinks it's funny, so fuck that guy

>>54894465

Seems pretty dubious of a claim in general, but he seems to have confused belief and faith. Just believing in God is, well, belief. You think it's true. Most people who believe don't regularly attend church. Faith is trust, and if you really trust God, you're probably not going to shirk your religious duties. So while I'm sure there are cynical people who attend church just for funsies, I don't think that's the norm at all.

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>>54892467
>implying you get shit from praying to a god for personal gain
>"awww yeah, I'm gonna suck up to him for a month or two and he'll give me some sickass powers, brah"
Some people never learn

>>54892467

How very clearly real are they? Does magic automatically mean gods exist? That is assuming magic is even particularly common. Either way, to the average peasant, a cleric could be wizard pretending to be a servant of the gods or, even worse, a warlock doing so. You don't really know what the gods are like other than what clerics and religions tell you. With enough magic, anything could pretend to be a god. You could even see a planetar and not be convinced. A big magical humanoid creature with wings? Well, maybe a giant banged a dragon. Who knows.

I think the assumption that fictional gods are obviously real (and really what they seem to be) is based on the naive notion that if God or gods actually exist there would be no Atheists.

>The don't agree with what the god's stand for.
>They want to use their own power/power that can't be snatched away just because someone gets pissy.
>Never head of them

>>54892544
What would you call this ideology, is there a term for it that exists?

>>54895201
Militant anti-theism.

>>54895201
Misotheism

>>54895229
No, anti-theism is just violent opposition to relgion as a concept of a deity and belief in such an entity.

>>54892572

If there are gods people consider "good" then there are also gods for the assholes.

See the elder scrolls. there is a god there for every kind of person.

>>54895268
There's no distinction between gods and religion, if gods are real.

>>54894823
This really depends on local cultural context. There are a lot of places where the church is the only social club in town, so the believers are in the majority by necessity because being outside the church makes you a bit of an outcast.

For example, not all small town Christian communities in the American South are full of crazy fundies despite what you may have been lead to believe. Old school, non-redneck Southern culture has a strong aspect of "face" not unlike what you have in some Asian cultures. E.g.: The youngest son of a prominent family might go out drinking and whoring every weekend but nobody really acknowledges it as long as it stays under wraps because that would damage the image of the rest of the family.

In that context being a good Christian is the honor code you judge face by, so everyone goes to church by default even if you are a non-believer. For a significant portion of the community you really do just go to church for purely social reasons.

From another perspective, a friend of mine grew up in the Australian Anglican church and says they took it being a social circle to an extreme, to the point that talking about God and Jesus like a fundamentalist would is rude. She summarized the general attitude as something along the lines of "Oh, God may or may not exist, but the important thing is I have to cook for the church potluck tomorrow!"

In my setting you can get divine powers by praying for 15 minutes every day, but only after you've done so for 20 years without missing a day. And you lose them if you miss a day, too.
So to answer your question, OP, some people haven't done their twenty years yet or they forgot to.

>>54895290
Well there's organized religion vs. solitary worship.

>>54895442
What if I pray for an hour a day for 5 years?

>>54895973
That's a smitin'

>>54892467
These gods are assholes. Such huge assholes so you wouldn't even want to have eternal afterlife if it means eternity with these jerks.

>>54892467
The gods are not our friends. They do not care about us. At best, we are pawns in their games. At worst, we are cattle to be slaughtered at their whim.

To claim that the gods love us is to claim that a man can love the fleas upon his dog.

>>54892467
In my setting, the gods are very vain and unlikeable due to their neglegence of the wishes of those who aren't in their grand plan. One God let an entire city fall to a demon because he knew he wouldn't with the fight without great losses in his angels. So some see them as selfish with their power.

>>54897012
Any setting with semi-active non-omnipotent gods is bound to be like this. Look at any actual polytheistic mythology, when gods come down from whatever holy place they usually inhabit, it usually ends badly for all involved.

Rape, murder, ironic curses; and don't even think about trying to compete or have theological/moral arguments with a god. If you lose, they might forgive you (assuming you survive); if you win, you're going to be so cursed your entire family line will remember. Assuming they're still human or exist at all.

>>54895973
Well you're five years in, keep it up for another 15 and you can start getting powers!

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>>54892467
In Fate of Agaptus the gods are squalling retards who don't know their own strength. They'll check in every once in a while to make sure they're being worshipped, but being TOO devout has a chance of drawing their attention which often results in catastrophic rewards: a flood of wine, a blessing which increases muscles mass until the muscle rip through the skin, etc. They're almost well-meaning Chaos gods.

>>54892467
Maybe one has a grudge against the gods, like maybe one day the gods were drunk and killed his family and friends
>that's stupid, if you get angry at the gods then they'll smite you
with nothing left to lose, that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

>>54892467
Gods trade power for devotion. There are other ways to acquire power, which do not involve oaths, commandments or subservience.

Plus gods are assholes.

>>54892507
>>54898476

>Plus gods are assholes.

This a hundred times.

Use the Greek gods in your campaign.

>>54892467
Because they are all assholes.

>>54892467
Gods are dicks.

>>54892467
Because unless you're willing to spend your entire life on your knees, most gods care more about how you live your life than how devout you are.

>>54892467
Probably sid already, but it could be that people just don't want to be religious. Maybe the gods are fickle. Maybe every god has done something the would-be devout strongly disagrees with.
Maybe it's a matter of faith and they think it illogical to put faith in a god you know exists.
Maybe they just don't want an easy life riding on the wings of what amounts to celestial bourgeoisie, no matter how many hoops they have to jump through.

>>54892467
I've had players who deliberately try to be atheist and say the gods don't exist in faerun.

If such retards exist, then surely people exist who just don't care that much about what their local dickass deity wants this week

>>54892467
Like Stannis is ASOIAF
Knows they exist, detest them for all the wrongs they leave wrong in the world?

>>54892467

Cause the proof is magic.
In a world full of magic.
Why should you be devoutly religious to the local god when he could be another wizard like your neighboor?

>>54892680
...isnt that exactly what we do IRL?

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>>54892467
Neat Thread

I've been playing a cleric(Tempest) of Thor for the last 10 months now and have made it to level 12. My cleric comes from a nomadic tribe in a wasteland like place and has strong norse like traditions. She was called to action by her God and has pulled off great feats as his servant and been rewarded with various boons despite not being level 20. She's made mistakes and fell from her Gods graces once before and regained his recognition once again through bravery and self sacrifice. She has beat down lichs, purged vampire lords, wrestled dragons and even jumped into the maws of a kraken to save her companions. She wields a weapon of legend, a belt of storm giants strength and plate armor of wrath(gives a totem barbs rage at the cost of a CD).

Based on this information how would you rp this character? What challenges would you pin against them? I wanna hear it all /tg/

>>54893782
>implying Dany isnt busy squirting herself over his refusal and who will eventually be on her knees for him
>just like Targaryens do for family

-The world has priests and others that can cast spells and in effect do miracles.
-Clerics, Paladins etc prove Gods exist
-The world is full of monsters and life still sucks.
-It is thus very clear to people that even the multitude of benevolent or caring Gods are not enough to stem the torrent of horrors that evil Gods vomit on the lands.

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>>54892467
>>54892467
>In a country where your government is very clearly real and very obviously capable of granting their followers power, why would any reasonable person not be devoutly nationalist?

>In a universe where strength is very clearly real and very obviously capable of granting their followers power, why would any reasonable person not work out?

>>54892467
Because gods do not grant their blessings to everyone and those blessings do not cover everything needed to prosper.

Sure, everyone will obviously pay lip service to the gods of their choosing at the very least since it's like a lottery for free.

However, most people will still have to work relatively normal jobs to get by. Gods intervene at. their own discretion, until then, you gotta put effort to make a living.

The more people you have depending on you, the less likely you are to take that leap of faith which may render your family destitute or grant you magical powers.

It is also quite clear that gods do not reward those who greedily seek their blessings because they feel like making god do all the work for them.

>>54901721
It's time to RAGNAROK.

Either she looks for a mystical artefact that allows you to skip out on this dying world, or she can be a big ol fucking retard and die along with the gods, the demons, the world and all the fucktards on it.

>>54893903
soggy bait anon.

>>54894740
You also have to remember that the oldest of 1st world countries are likely to be religious right now. They are, after all, a product of the early twentieth century.

Fifty years from now? Not so much.

>>54892467
1. Not every devote worshipper gets to be a spellslingin' cleric.

2. I got shit to do. My life is full to the brim with hard work and now you want me to spend what little downtime and coin I have listening to some idealistic fool prattle?
I'll be at the tavern.

>>54892467
In a larp where I once played, I explained it in the following way. Note that the only non-divine magic in the setting is elemental magic.
>There's a number of powers considered "higher" than mankind, which they have called gods
>There's a number of powers considered "lower" than mankind, which they have called elements
>An obvious distinction can be made between the two, as elements represent physical things and gods represent concepts
>However, for each boon granted by a god, there is an elemental counterpart
>As clerics can cast spells by drawing power from their god, so can wizards cast by drawing power from their element
>As clerics get visions from their god, so can wizards sense the will of their element
>As clerics go to churches to strengthen their connection to their god, so do wizards meditate on their element to strengthen their connection
>As such, there is no evidence for the assumption that gods have free will and sentience whereas the elements don't
>Neither gods nor elements should be seen as "higher" or "lower" than mankind, they are simply incomparable

It played the character as a smug fedora-tipping atheist, but the principles are sound.

>>54892467
Because it's already a shit setting. The whole system of "gods" granting "followers" "divine power" is just putting on the trappings of religion without any good narrative reason for it.

>>54892780
Yes. If you're going on a journey pray to the gods of travel. If you're going by boat pray to the gods of sea too. Going hunting? Pray to the god of the hunt. Having a party? Toast to the gods of wine, love and eating too much. Starting a war? Offer a fraction of the spoils to the gods of victory and battle then eviscerate a goat and read its entrails to see if the gods accepted. This is how pre-Christian polytheism was done in Greece and Rome.

The D&D 'cleric has one god' model of divine fanclubs is a game mechanic. In a world with multiple known gods people would worship entire pantheons and each god would be praised at opportunistic times. Single god cults would be the exception not the rule.

That said, You could have a setting where each civilisation has one god and the gods are all in competition with each other. The followers of Sky God are trying to eradicate the degenerate sun worshippers while the followers of the Sun God are trying to bring the divine light of their lord to the ignorant sky wizard cults by burning the more vocal heretics alive.The judo-christian feel might be be a welcome break from the more greco-roman default pantheons on most settings. Or you could ramp up the opportunist angle and go for a more asian feel with red-tape filled celestial bureaucracy.

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>>54892467
>In a universe where gods are very clearly real and very obviously capable of granting their followers divine power, why would any reasonable person not be devoutly religious?

Perhaps because the worship the Gods demand from mortals are not very benificial to the health of mortals?

>>54893707
>And there are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to bend the knee to an emperor.

Assisted suicide for one.

>>54892507
>Some will not follow out of faith, but out of fear.
by definition NOBODY is following out of Faith in this setting. Faith is the belief in something that is hard to believe and/or count to evidence because of spiritual conviction, which under OP's setting-conditions, is basically impossible.

>>54894000
In Islamic countries Muslims live significantly longer than atheists.

>>54902537
>Faith is the belief in something that is hard to believe and/or count to evidence because of spiritual conviction
Huh? It's often used interchangebly with devotion and dedication to ideas you follow regardless if they are correct ot not.

>>54902572
I also heard they are less susceptible to stone disease

>>54902515
It's exclusively non-beneficial to mortals who aren't you personally though.

>>54902572
Mostly because Atheism is punishable by death.

>>54893903
>>54894000
>>54894044
>>54894086
>>54894740
Stop arguing when you don't even know what facts are right or wrong.
Luckily I'm interested on the subject so I can provide at least some sort of facts : https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201302/do-religious-people-really-live-longer
The sources are believable, of course your milage may vary.

So basically, there is some truth the fact that religious people live on average longer when compared to irreligious people in the same country, but that is only true when the religious people are a majority. When in minority, religious people recieve no statistical advantage. It does not decrease life expectancy though, so being religious never seems do be a disadvantage.
From that, you can only theorize, but it seem obvious that the advantages of being religious is actually analogous to being part of a majority group.

>>54902578
By the definition of Faith, if faith is what powers the deities, it is a built in reason for them not to interfere beyond that which is deniable, and if they DO interfere constantly and provably, then it is likely mot faith, but something like fear or blood sacrifices, that fuel them.

Hence why the active gods are evil, and why the good gods are so distant and rarely help: it's a byproduct of their differing divine metabolisms.

>>54892467
>In a universe where gods are very clearly real and very obviously capable of granting their followers divine power, why would any reasonable person not be devoutly religious?

For the same reason in a universe where kings are relevant and very obviously capable of granting their followers temporal power, you can still be ambivalent about the monarchy.

On the other hand at least the gods don't require taxes every time they're having a pissing contest with another god.

>>54895201
JRPGism

Because the gods are dicks and are perverse in their granting of said powers?

Most obvious reason is people might want their own destiny. Maybe these gods aren't omnipotent and are simply wildly powerful beings, so they want nothing to do with them.

>>54892467
You wouldn't.

>>54892467
I don't need no stinking handouts.

>>54902682
>/blog/

I'll give it a read, but I doubt this is going to be worthwhile.

>>54903266
And after reading through it: it's a summary of cherry picked data from studies and material published by someone other than the author. Not even a proper peer review of a single study.

I guess I'll have to dig through his cited sources instead.

Religion implies an object of faith, something that men will not be able to consider as equal. In other words, something sacred. If everybody can see it and interact with it, how is it different from a goat or a merchant that will give you stuff in exchange for some specific worship?

>>54892467
>gods exist
>praying to them
>not hunting them down and consuming their hearts

Have a little ambition.

>>54903368
Pretty sure it's the opposite because religious people tend to have all kinds of retarded hangups on what kind of medical care is religiously acceptable.

>>54892467
You could pay people $10 to recycle soda cans and they still wouldn't do it. Human laziness trumps everything

>>54904345
You have no idea what you're talking about

>>54892467
>In a universe where Bosses are very clearly real and very obviously capable of granting their employees a lot of money, why would any reasonable person not be a devoted worker?

Maybe my boss is shit and I'm angling for a better job elsewhere?

>>54904436
>if i move the goalposts and change the entire argument, I win!

>>54904582
He just answered the question like most before: because they are dicks

>>54904375
Bullshit.

>>54904413
No, you have no idea what you're talking about. There are entire books written on what medical procedures are bad for people of X religion and for what retarded stone age reason.

>>54904413
Some accept no foreign blood. Others are against amputation. Some don't accept vaccines that are made in some way or another.
Easy to answer, really.

>>54904413
On top of that there are local cultural differences. Like in Middle Eastern countries many people believe only bitter medicine with unpleasant taste works.

>>54902966
>give me more hearts
>the grain sacrifice came too late
>where are my virgins
>who the hell ate my holy animals
>my holy animals are not fed enough

Gods tax a lot.

>>54904737
>I haven't tested anyone's faith in quite some time
>who will suffer leprosy and terrible misfortune for the next 20 years? hehehehe

>>54892467
1) Rivalry between gods - not devoutly supporting any fraction decreases your chances of being fucked by other fractions.
2) Pride - counterproductive but might happen
3) Price of devotion - for some people rituals and limitations required to get divine stuff might be not worth it (i.e. god of sea listens only to prayers of those who haven't stopped on land for 5+ years)

>>54902647
Depends on the country. In most of them: nah.

>>54894000
>>54894044
The evidence shows what religion you follow is pretty irrelevant, and what I've read is that many think it's more about being engaged in a community since we're social animals.
That would also explain some areas like japan where there is some focus on community interaction, exercising groups, basically prerequisite work mate socializing, family interactions, even if in some cases it's just out of tradition and social expectation.

>>54904582
>if I shitpost and impotently flail at a strawman, I win!

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>>54892467
I bend knee to no tyrant, be they flesh and bone or some foul magicked outsider meddling in the affairs of mortals and claiming "divine right" or to have "created". They be powerful, but be they Right?

Those that follow blindly are fools and those that follow for power neither earned nor own their power and so it will fail then when they need it most.

>>54892467
>In a universe where gods are very clearly real and very obviously capable of granting their followers divine power, why would any reasonable person not be devoutly religious?


They are seeking their own way to reach divinity and dislike serving someone.

>>54892572
Then explain blackguards

>>54904972
Japan's main form of community interaction (for contributing adults and not fuck-ups, anyhow) is at work. They have just about the most fucked up corporate culture where it's your father, your mother and your god.

>>54904737

Well then yeah, they're pretty much just kings.

FUCK kings.

>>54902647
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

>>54892467
interesting question but this brings a up a host of another things to consider:

- if there are multiple gods then none of them are omnipotent creator gods, they are probably just extradimensional beings with "divine" (magical) powers.

- probably obtaining their "divine" or magical gifts requires true faith, even if people know for certain said beings exist such true faith might be harder to obtain, knowing isn't believing.

- if they are indeed extradimensional beings with magical powers then this is a setting where magic probably exists, and multiple wise man (ie mages, warlocks, witches, or whatever) have probably dabled with magical forces, thus knowing full well that these magical beings operate within certain rules... making not true gods but more of a extemely powerful entities.

Just the first few things that come to mind.

>>54892780
You mean like how one offers a prayer to Ganesh before undertaking a journey?

It's almost like these are things that people actually do.

>>54892467
Because every god is "of" something and not everyone overlaps there. If your gods are of the sky, sea and harvest then unless im a farmer or sailor I aint gonna care

>>54913165
>making not true gods

Nigga they're true gods. Omnipotence isn't the qualifier for godhood.

The vast majority of gods in the West and East are just powerful Outsiders.

>>54898182
>Greek and Norse are the only polytheistic mythologies

>>54894874
I feel like some evil gods would welcome a bunch of ass kissing sycophants who are only in it for power.

>>54892467
Because their ability to intervene is limited, and not all gods are morally worthy of worship.

It becomes not a question of "do you believe in god" but of "which God(s) do you worship"

>>54892467
A better question:
If real gods exist, why would you attempt to waste their time with your petty prayers?
Anything short of praying against the imminent doom of the entire planet should be punishable by flogging for clogging up official divine channels.

>>54914109
Clearly this is why gods have angels and other divine servants. Secretaries to sort through the prayers for them, and subordinates to handle the low-effort low-priority miracles.

>>54914381
Every angel you are making field your tech support calls is another angel not making gravity hold you onto the planet.
Pray responsibly. If you see someone praying for anything other than a class 3 ultra-red crisis, incapacitate them and take them to your local repentence bureau

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As a very cynical character I once played said: "Show me one of them worth worshipping."

>>54895201
there is a faction in NuRunescape called the godless that wants to overthrow the gods because guthix told them to.

>>54914109
>If real gods exist, why would you attempt to waste their time with your petty prayers?
Because gods told you through their servants and prophets or maybe even directly to call them in time of need?

>>54914672
Yeah, in a time of need. Like if you find someone T-posing and juddering in the corner of a room, half-through the wall.
Not if you stub your torso on some raider's sword.
It's like you guys never ran a universe before.

>>54914687
>Not if you stub your torso on some raider's sword.
You are not a god, you can't tell me when to call my divine bff or not

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>>54892467
Because Gods are flawed and untrustworthy
But Men are loyal. Properly trained, armed, and equipped there is nothing they cannot do.

>>54904323
My Celtic bretheren

>>54892467

Just because a god is bigger and smarter and more powerful than you doesn't mean you're automatically going to agree with them on everything. You can't fake devotion to a god, if they aren't truly just in your mind (however flawed your puny human mind is) you can't be devoted

>>54914710
He's your boss, not your BFF.

>>54914867
You don't know him as well as I do

>>54914913
That sounds like heresy to me. Wasting the divine bureaucracies time is a grave offense.

>>54893823
Atheism isn't a religion anymore than theism is.
There are religious atheists though.

>>54914928
You are not my pope, get out of my cell

>>54914949
Is that where you are an atheist because no gods put up ever, but you really wish they would so you could get on the god train?
Man I wish some god would stop being a pussy and start throwing around fireballs.

>>54914985
Buddhists are atheists.

Some of the "militant atheists" are pretty damn dogmatic in thei god isn't real stuff.

>>54915083
I don't blame 'em. The recent gods are obvious con-artists who came along thousands of years after the world was made by prior gods, taking all the credit without doing any of the work.

>>54892467
Much like in everyday life some people just can't be assed. Why would some peasant go beyond partaking in the occasional ritual/ceremony/celebration/whatever if it on average does not change their life for the better? There are fields to tend to damn it and every moment spent praying beyond the minimum is another moment food is not being grown for their family and their lord both of which represent far closer issues than the gods.

>>54892467
> If gods are gods, why did [shitty thing] happen to me?

> Maybe I don't wanna sacrifice three lambs a week, Theuronobn, god of extremely okay grain

> hey, your other followers of dicks, why don't you smite them
> oh I dunno, they praise me and build lots of cool statues in my likeness
> but they kill and enslave people
> I dunno man I look pretty sweet in marble

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>>54892467
Because the gods are occasionally lying assholes

>>54892467

Ideological reasons? Not all like the idea of being a servant to a higher power.

How do we know that the "gods" aren't just illusions created by wizards to control the population?

>>54918276
Kyle enough about the fucking wizard illuminati, alright? We get it, Linda left you for Skefelborn the Long of Dick.

>>54904582
>if i move the goalposts and change the entire argument, I win!

What argument nigger, he asked a question and I answered it. Are you the kind of fedoraed faggot who thinks that every time somebody mentions the divine, it's time for a Muslim/Atheist battle to the death?

>>54892467
Gods are unjust.

>>54892467
Have you read about the Athar from the Planar Handbook for 3.5 D&D.Sums it all up pretty well.

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>>54892467
Gods might be a powerful force in any given setting but not necessarily above reproach and condemnation

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>>54892467
When God is on the enemy's side, but you're too stubborn to just die.

>>54893823
Praise Atheismo!

In my setting there is a group of people who believe in hard labor and efforts with their hands and blood. They work off a favor system and denounce ways of accomplishing things via magic or other non-labor means.

The gods are inherently tied into magic and so they denounce and refuse to follow them. They see the gods and religious politics as means to manipulate men. It doesn't help that that the ancestors of these men were cursed by the gods which led them to being bestial with animal features such as ox horns.

>>54923848
In short, they don't follow the gods because the gods are assholes and don't adhere to the physical labor the race values.