/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>>54872300
That's referring to soaking the damage, it is confusing because it uses small numbers (presumably a tank would need to be dealt more than 4 damage to pass through it's armour), but the rule is pretty clear in the vehicle section that it needs to be over the armour pre-soak not post soak. Otherwise, vehicles would either take zero damage or (at least) the damage equal to their armour, would make them either be 100% fine or just kind of explode randomly.
The way it works is:
>Is modified (Base + Ammo + Net hits) DV less than Armour? If so, ignore the damage.
>If it's higher, roll for soak
>Optionally, to speed things up, have the vehicle buy hits instead

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>>54874396
Well i don't have any hopes regarding that. Basically the matrix rules are so messed up, even we germans can't fix it without tearing everything down.

>>54873412 →
>>54873452 →
>>54873611 →

Well, my players are pretty much as green as it get's also between 16-18. So my idea is to put them into the Seattle barrens and have them do 3-4 shitty barrens runs for some asshole, since they need money. Low pay, high risk, minimum amount of briefing on the job.
Cue for the nice Ms.Johnson who pays adequately, the jobs are stil high risk but she seems to be very interested in the success of the runs and actually pays.
I inted to have her as their main Johnson (Beeson if you want so) with runs like (and as an Anon in the thread before mentioned) "Some power hungry ares exec wants tu shut down an SINless work programm, stop him", " Hack a goverment server to locate funding towards a community garden.", "Stop the rampart gang violence in that area so people can life in peace for once."

All that and some more runs in the "Our Johnson has a heart of gold" direction.
Maybe put them against an small hornet insect spirit swarm who have taken ofer a group of go-gangers. Only to have rumors of insect spirits spread AFTER they have dealt with them.

And i think Bees (or bumblebees) would make a good kind of antagonist, since the nymphs of them are actually quite intelligent (according to fluff) and less agressive than locus or said hornets. I imagen that they could keep the bigger picture in mind, plan ahead and use non-bugs to do their job.

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>>54874771
Also flying enemies with venom and hardened armor are a bag of dicks.

>>54874771
>without tearing everything down.
good luck, that's not going to happen except at the 5e/6e transition.

>>54874771
Your players are going to hate you, and I say that with admiration.

Bump

>>54875443
Thank you, i want to try and bring back the "punk" in cyberpunk, with seemingly gooded runs and flashy characters.
Also backstabbing, some smaller ones and one of biblical scale.

>>54876062
I meant "hooded" runs; i goofed up and I'm sorry.

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>>>54869859
I'm not opposed to this in Shadowrun's case, because it's not like there's a paucity of metatypes to choose from, or a paucity of different types of game you can have (and are encouraged to have by the books). Wakayambi aren't unplayable for mechanical reasons, they just don't make sense in the default setting of high-tech low-lifes on the streets of Seattle. It's like assassins/evil characters in D&D; it makes sense to have them, it adds to the world, and you can use them in certain very interesting games, but it's not the choice you want to make for the majority of games.

I hold in my heart the dream that one day I will get to play a Prime Runner game where I'm a nartaki guru travelling the world, giving sage wisdom and spiritual comfort by day and fighting to overthrow the corps by night

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>>54874897
I was going to mock this, but I think they might actually be able to unfuck the Matrix if they don't rock the boat. They did two heavy rewrites in two editions, but now fictionally there are powers that be keeping the Matrix safe and stable.

If they start from the same series of givens as 5e, and build more coherent mechanics, they really could have something. Of course, that would mean hiring a writer who gives a shit about the Matrix, which seems to be a bigger and bigger ask these days.

Hey, question. I'm building a rifle sammie, and I had money left over after all his expensive cyberware so I specced into Rigger too, with a basic link up. I picked a Ford Econovan as their vehicle because it's inconspicuous, it gives my rigger an excuse to drive large numbers of people around town, and upgrades for it are common (and therefore inconspicuous too). I was reading people talking about the Bulldog in the last thread, and I have to ask is it better than the Econovan or the Universe?

>>54878334
>money left over after all his expensive cyberware so I specced into Rigger too
chummer, please tell me your initiative, combat dice pools, dodge and soak pools and how much you had left over

>>54878817
Chummer, don't try to force minmaxing on everybody.
If he is happy with his build, let him have the fun.
Besides, you can build a combat-capable runner with Ressources C (RE 3 used, WR 1, MuscleReplacement Alpha 2, Smartlink, around 7750 Nuyen left, enough to get a proper SIN and Basic Equipment with the Karma you can spend on Nuyen at chargen), so having spare Nuyen with Res A isn't all to difficult.

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>>54878817
Not rifle, sorry, its more like SMG. 17 Dice for an ingram. My Initiative is 9+4d6, or 5d6 if I'm using stimulants. My dodge is only 3. Looking at it, itsmore a rigger that minored in sammie hand-of-god style actually. Made it up a while ago, couldn't remember. Even got the van I was using wrong.

>>54879143
Is there a reason that Social Skills aren't shown?
As long as you put a few points int Etiquette that should be fine, maybe add a weapon mount to the car

>>54879208
1 CHA + Defaulting, looks like he's using the sheet that hides skills below 1.

>>54879250
In which case he should SERIOUSLY consider putting 3 points into Etiquette at least, holy shit

>>54879208
>>54879267
Okay, points into etiquette, cheers. I didn't add weapon mounts because it's supposed to look like an ordinary taxi to blend in.

>>54879385
But why? At that point you may as well have just bought a connection 1 loyalty 6 driver contact who'll take you wherever you need to go.

>>54879431
>paying for having witnesses around

what could possibly go wrong

>>54879431
True, but I like being the getaway driver + they might not have stuff likea morphing license plate

And you could say that about any PC. A connection 1 loyalty 6 mage for magic security, a c1l6 hacker, etc.

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>>54879478
>loyalty 6 connection 1

He'll help dig the holes, omae. But he might need to borrow a shovel

>>54874396
Id love some good Technomancer rules & some stuff to let them do Rigger stuff

>>54879431
>Connection 1
>useful only for their Knowledge skills
>driver

I guess you could do that, but they're not going to be better than the built in pilot program.

>>54879385
>>54879267
>>54879208
I dropped gunnery and took 6 points of etiquette. Seeing as I'm pretending to be a taxi driver, etiquette seemed more useful. Plus It helps with subtle pilot.

So I'm having trouble coming up with fights that will challenge my group, but won't be a pain in the dick to keep track of. What should I be throwing at a well-rounded group of 4 starting level PCs?

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So how exactly do I use one of these?

Is it a gunnery test to fire it infront of a vehicle I'm chasing? Can it only be fired behind?

I see the different strips, but it doesn't say how to actually use this damn thing.

>>54880120
It says there. You use a free action to deploy a strip behind you.

>>54880127

Doesn't specify behind, and it says "Ejector". But what you say makes sense, in any case.

How does a vehicle catch another vehicle ahead of it, then? I was looking for something like a harpoon gun, but nothing seems to match that description.

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>>54880109
>captcha: john please

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>>54880148
>captcha: calgar johnson

>>54880141
>How does a vehicle catch another vehicle ahead of it, then?
Being faster
Killing the driver
Using Movement on it (remember, you can multiply with the force or divide by it)
Shooting out the wheels
Shooting a Adhesive filled grenade in front of it
etc.

>>54880156
>>54880148
gracias

>>54880186
Don't forget hacking.

>>54880186
>>54880407


The problem is my groups mage has dumped 80% of her income into this goddamn Speed 7 ricer car.

Granted with the resource expenditure, it's reasonably acceptable for them to be nearly impossible to catch. I'm just stuck wondering what kind of thing can stop them from escaping so easily.

I should probably exploit the fact that she has a really low driving skill.

>>54880848
Alternatively, use paranoia. Have somebody shout "Release the tag-cloud!" over PA and cover the car in some kind of powder.

It's just spite, but it should have enough paranoia to make 'em try having it cleaned or just blame some kind of bad luck on it.

>>54880848
Speed serves as a Limit, not an objective measure of how fast a vehicle moves. If she doesn't have a good Pilot pool, it doesn't really help her.

>>54880848
Call ahead to knight errant and have them set up roadblocks. Cops have radios to coordinate chummer.

>>54881169
Municipal cops (including security contractors like KE) will usually refuse to do fuck all about any crimes that happened on corporate property. Extraterritoriality is a double edged sword.

>>54881085
>mfw re-reading the rules for vehicle tests and extended tests

I'm literally retarded.

Thanks anon.

>>54881169

True, but the car is also fitted with a bunch of kit that also makes it a chameleon. Any visual description is largely pointless

>>54881351
Yeah. Speed is your Limit for high-speed stunts, while Handling is used for precision/tight maneuvers. Most things in an outright car chase fall under Speed, while stuff like a zigzagging route, vehicles dodging in combat, and flips/kids are more Handling.

But you still need a good driver.

If she'd rather keep investing in the car than git gud, she can always up its Pilot and get it some Autosofts to drive itself. Probably cheaper and easier than trying to get her own Pilot skill to a good place.

How do I plug my own mentor spirit into chummer 5e?

>>54882406
Open up the mentor spirit file in something so that you can see the format.

Make a custommentorspirits file of the right type, fill it with the custom mentor spirit data, get an id if wanted (or possibly needed, never messed with custom qualities just letting sensors be put in cyberlimbs before it was allowed by chummer), save, and then put it in the data file.

>>54880848
Custom data file for mentors.xml.
https://github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a/wiki/Custom-Data-Files

Attention furries of /srg/: Do you have any particular wishlist items for a redo of the SURGE system in Chummer? Is it readable enough for you in general use? Any pain points that affect you while trying to create a character?

>>54882593
Yekka are you drunk again quoting the wrong post

>>54880848
Maybe try the Knight Errant P5 Pursuit Drone (pg 188, Rigger 5.0). Also Acceleration and Handling can be factors.

>>54882715
Some numbers look like other numbers!

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>>54882768
>2017
>Not just clicking on the numbers

ISHYGDDT

You using mobile or something?

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>>54880848
Street construction bottlenecks traffic. Opportunity for a sick jump.
A group of motorcycle paparazzi and their camera drones mistake the car for someone famous running from the law, possibly streaming the runners live.
A parade.
Random shitty drivers causing sudden lane blockages.
Something in the road shreds one of their tires.
Tracer rounds.

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>>54882931
>Tracker Rounds
Excuse me.

>>54882792
At work, long time between when I start replying to one post and look at another, essentially.

>>54883042

Tracker Rounds with Stealth/Security tags

Run and Gun Pg.55

>>54883724
Yeah but huge (yet very small) difference between tracer and tracker.

GMing Shadowrun with no GMing or Shadowrun experience has made me loathe GMing

>>54884021

My first GM Experience was D&D, and it was awful. I did one game and everyone hated it.

At least with Shadowrun, I can blame the system for being dumb when I fuck up.

Wakka wakka.

Is the tabletop anything like the rpgs? i loved hongkong and im playing through dragonfall right now. Where would i start learning how to play/finding a group. Almost played with some guys from here online but the guy running it bailed

>>54884066
I believe the HBS games are based on the older editions. Like, 2e or something.

>>54884066
mechanics not so much really. Story and flavor? Yeah, pretty well represented there.

>>54880848
Why would you want to stop her from escaping easily?

If a player spends 80% of their income to be successful at something, then they should reap those benefits.

Instead, have another obstacle that could have been overcome by assets that she DIDN'T buy.

How does one stat a souped up 1970 Grand Torino? Use the GMC Phoenix or Dodge Charger in R5 as base stats?

>>54885339
I think he was asking how the enemies might so her, but I may have read it wrong

OK, I might be relatively new to SR, but I KNOW that's not the original cover of R5. Very fucking funny.

>>54885862
Anon, be happy. The original art was shit, so we replaced it with something better

>>54885862
You can see the original cover at the end of the book on the end splash page. It's real bad.

I hope they do a Run Faster and change out the cover when they put out the errata. except the original RF cover was rad as fuck, cybercentaur rockers 4 lyfe

>>54885862
Teehee.

>>54884066
Shadowrun Returns is the best representation of tabletop out of them.

>>54888019
>Shadowrun Returns is the best representation of tabletop out of them.
Can't have an army of spirits to win at everything forever. Other than that, it's pretty cool.

whats the easiest way for a poorfag to get their hands on the 5e books?

>>54889637
>Scroll to top of page
>read OP
>realize you missed the pastebin
>???
>No profit for CGL!

>>54889683
>http://pastebin.com/SsWTY7qr
;_; i couldn't read the memes man. am i getting old?!

>>54889710
I feel like if the cloud storage went over your head, it's more than just getting old.

>>54890964
2 bee faire, the OP is distinctly unreadable for newfags. We had one that was better laid out for a while but I forced the old one back into circulation because it allows for better jokes. Lurk moar, first rule of Shadowrun is style over substance

>>54891082
>style over substance
but chummer, 0/0 is undefined!

Chummers, is Logic being used for Gunnery while jumped in an official rule, or a 'this makes sense' rule combined with skills not being permanently locked to stats?

I've been trying to find it to figure out whether I can page number correct one of my rules lawyer players, or if I have to rule 0 them

>>54891409
It's described in three different areas and official decision is that AGI is the one you use
Which doesn't make much sense

So you should use LOG while jumped in, AGI when not

>>54891463
Awesome, thank you

I'm done Chummers
I just can't do it anymore, there just too much. I thought I could handle it, the players, the setting, the rules and prep. I was wrong, there is just so much stuff and its left my heart shallow and low. I just can't DM anymore for Shadow run, I just can't. Maybe its me, its probably me. I just can't keep up with it.

>>54893475
what edition?
where set?
over what medium?
what exactly do you have problems with?

>>54893544
5
New Orleans. Wrote some setting stuff before we started.
Online, though doubt in person would be easier.
There's just so many rules and it feels wrong to ignore it. I tried to stick to the rules but its like running three different games at once. I tried to learn as much as I could but its all over the book and nobody else in my group actually looks at the thing. Everything has so many steps and I just can't keep up with it.

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>>54893590
SR is a game with a puddle-like complexity: wide, but shallow
have you seen the Hayek sheets in the OP pastebin? have you seen the matrix flowchart (pdf related)? Do you use chummer5?

the game is just "roll an amount of d6 equal to Attribute1+(Skill/Attribute2)+Modifiers, count 5 and 6, compare to (static number/number on opposing test/cumulative number).
Bigger or equal? you pass.
Lower? you fail
more than half 1s? additional complications"

Most of the complexity comes from knowing the order (Hayek sheets, flowchart) or the modifiers (I made a collage of all relevant tables for my game)
And because the main concept is simple you can extrapolate for edge cases.
Just think what attributes and skills are helping and eyeball the rest

>>54894152
I think we just have to face it that in it's current form, Shadowrun is a terrible game. Mostly it comes down to terrible editing slowing down learning, and needlessly complex mechanics slowing down gameplay.

You don't need to sacrifice much of the game to fix Shadowrun, it's just that it needs to be implemented better. At every level.

6th edition can't come soon enough.

>>54894152
>>54894376

I don't want to need all these collages and mind maps and flowcharts. Its just not good anon.

I think I might go back to Warhammer rpgs, its like babies first rpg compared to Shadowrun but its way easier.

>>54894733
if you don't like crunch, why did you pick SR?

>>54894376
>Playing 5th edition ever
>Not playing the objectively best 3rd edition.
>Hell, even playing 4th with all its flaws
Anon pls

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So are there any rules lite or house ruled version of the matrix that has it so you don't need a flowchart whenever the decker wants to hack? Or do I just need to bite the bullet?

>>54895027
No, because any complexitiy beyond a single dice roll can (and probably will) have a flowchart to it for somebody.

Remember, 5e's got the worst explained Matrix, but the best rules.

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>>54895027
Ends of the Matrix my friend, one of the best set of matrix rules. It has brainhacking.
Heres the 5e port I made a while ago. I missed a few limits, but otherwise everything is plug and playable with some improvization.

>>54894920
5e's the least unplayable edition yet, which is pathetic.

Can Aspected Magicians astrally perceive/project? I dig the shit out of the flavor for dealing with spirits and projecting to a spiritual realm, but I'm extremely disinterested in any spellcasting other than ritual.

>>54891463
>>54891679
I think its safe to say you should never roll a physical stat while jumped unless its body to resist damage.

>>54894376
>6th edition can't come soon enough.
Not much hope unless its done by someone other than CGL honestly.

So much ridiculously stupid shit. Literally examples getting rolls wrong or rules texts not understanding mechanics. Just today I had two instances, one where the example box for Counterstrike in R&G rolled AGI instead of REA, the other cold damage description in SR5 explaining what happens on a glitch and what happens on a critical glitch, except the effect only happens if 0 hits occur, which means its either no glitch or critical glitch, because regular glitch can never occur with zero hits given.

And god, so much shit that they clearly made at some point, then fucked up in editing, and then decide to just not errata even after years.

>>54895239
Depends on what type of aspect. If your specific aspect is being a PhysAdept you'd need a power.

>>54895239
Pretty much every kind of mage but Adepts can astrally perceive by default. But only full mages and Explorers can project by their own power.

For Explorers, look at FA p 47.

>>54895533
There's drugs to induce perception or projection in any Awakened, though.

>>54895555
>Dem quads tho

>>54895138
>It has brainhacking.
I don't think you should use this as a sales pitch. It's one of the things that turned me off of Ends of the Matrix.

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So, since FA came out has anyone tried playing a "nice" blood mage? How did it go?

>>54896939
"Nice" blood magic is for nakama and altruistic bleeding hearts willing to put the lives of others before their own. So maybe if you're a follower of Tiger, who expects you to do everything for nakama anyway.

>>54897055
I mean Bear could work? Maybe?

>>54897182
Also a decent candidate. Maybe Holy Text or something, if the text in question promotes that sort of thing. Maybe even a Dove or something fluffed as Jesus himself, given that they mention the crucifixion as a possible example of spike baby "nice" blood magic.

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Speaking of blood magic, what other traditions/cultures would practice other than Aztecs?

I've been thinking about having some kind of Celtic blood mages be involved in a run, real wicker man types.

>>54897223
Oak would work I think.

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>>54897353
There's got to be a Carthaginian cult out there with a Hannibal (Wise Warrior) mentor spirit and a modified Juggernaut they use to drop babies into fire pits.

Wait what
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/783548120/1879-london-adventure-and-sourcebook

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>>54897624
>mfwnoface

On the one hand, I'm down for modern fantasy of any kind and I love steampunk and airships, and I'm kinda interested to see what they do as 'alternate future of Earthdawn'. On the other, 1879 is a fucking terrible name for the game. On the other other hand, apparently they've been publishing this for at least a year (Player's Guide came out March 2016, according to their website http://fasagames.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=108_111&products_id=930), and I haven't heard dick all about it.

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So /srg/ I need a second opinion.
Currently on the second part of a run, my players agreed to clear an underground area from ghouls.

Now they know the ghouls are organized and have a cult so they've asked for some good gear and have it and are essentially pretty well off in survivability.

Only hic, they have no mage. I have planned for the cult to have a couple of Magic 4 toxic mages lead by a magic 6 toxic ghoul mage with three force 4 toxic spirits.

Is this overkill ? I want an honest opinion so I wont' tell you the group's current power ranking. Should I remove some mages, lower forces or get rid of spirits ?

Also here's a map I made using the SR:R map edit, pretty good editor considering I only spent 20-30min on it.

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>>54897624
>>54897809
Also it has a fragging miniatures game?!? Have I been living under a rock or something?

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>>54897624
Wait, hold the fuck up.
FASA Is still making Earthdawn
Does this mean that should CGL go under, theres a possibility Topps will return the rights to FASA?

>>54897920
Is that necessarily a good thing if that happens? FASA was better than CGL, but not quite what I'd call good toward the end.

>>54897981
That largely depends on the quality of Earthdawn 4e and 1879. Also "better than CGL" is all i really want at this point.
[spoilers]anything to get some competent writers (read:not bull)[/spoilers]

>>54895138
>141 pages
No.

Maybe I should save this for a new thread, but whatever.
Let's say that Shadowrun gets a complete reboot. When would you set the new game and what would you change about the existing background lore?

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>>54898303
Fluff for areas outside of Seattle and North America. Im a Seattleite but it gets boring reading familiar names in sourcebooks. When the writers go outside of North America, like Constantinople or that bit on Spain in TCT, it tends to be really neat, and I want to see more of that.

Also unfuck the geopolitics, and give some detail on africa and the middle east other than "Its the Dark Continent again" and "Islam is a thing"
I know I'm exaggerating but come on, I need some variety.

>>54898303
>Maybe I should save this for a new thread
We're only a third of the way through the thread.

>When would you set the new game
I'd do what Modiphius did with Mutant Chronicles 3e: Have eras of play, with one core boon for all of them and each one with its own sourcebook. Like 4e/German 5e with the 2050 sourcebook, but on a larger scale. Give all the equipment manufactured from-to dates so you can tell what's available when, stuff like that.

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>>54898303
Seconded

I see a lot of complaints, and even being new and only having read a few rule/sourcebooks I can see that there are many issues.

But what specifically would you change/redo about both crunch and fluff to make things better?

inb4 get better writers/kill CGL

>>54898303
As a European to Americans;
Do we keep Nan states in any form?

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>>54898712
Cut the bloat and re-organize everythig, and hire writers who can 1)explain how the rules work in a short fashion, and 2)give a shit about technomancers, and are willing to retcon/shake things up so that they do something DIFFERENT rather than just being magic hackers (maybe by giving them bonuses for cyberware? or manipulating their surroundings with nanobots? i cant think of anything myself that wouldn't invaidate any other archetypes). Also tone magic the fuck down so mundane are actually relevant.

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>>54898794

American here, and I love NAN. Not entirely sure why, probly a few reasons.

US comeuppance for touting itself as an idealistic nation based on freedom and equality and shit but actually failing to live up to those ideals on a frighteningly often basis on frighteningly large scales (most relevantly the Indian Wars, but also others)? Maybe.

Magic Indians tickle my fancy? Quite possibly.

A divided North America reflects the reality of a lack of monolithic culture IRL in a nation roughly the size of Europe? Hmm kinda.

I'm a self-hating pinko SJW bleeding-heart who will always blindly cheer for the underdog minority? Could be something there.

It's just cool and different and future-y? Probably.

>>54899010
It's #4 desu

>>54894733
Hey, we're always willing to take players.

Also, Spiele NA is restarting 40krpg.

>>54899090
With a d6-based dicepool system, no less. It can only be better than the 'lol I have +60 to everything important I want to do' that Rogue Trader wound up with at least.

>>54899010
Myee, I do like the core concept, although the PCC rubs me the wrong way.

And the fact that they've knifed out the least populated states helps sate my suspension of disbelief. But is there anything you'd change about the north american map otherwise?

I feel like I might as well ask here since I'm already doing a soft history/geopolitical rewrite for my campaigns (mostly based in Europe, but I dabble on the other continents).

>>54899138
I mean, you play RT when you want a grimdark!Star Trek powertrip.

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Any of you have any recommendations for Shadowrun on Youtube?

I tried watching Mirrorshades but they take like 40 minutes or so each session to shill shit or talk about McDonalds. It takes them forever to do anything.

>>54899400
Roll4It, EnterElysium's series.

>>54899430
Very good series except for one issue: The players keep forgetting rules and the GM needs to remind them what to roll. However anyone who has played Shadowrun understands that problem.

>>54899010
I suppose the question then becomes how do you ensure the NAN gets established in a more reasonable fashion that how it occurs in canon Shadowrun? "A Shaman did it" was never a very fulfilling explanation.

>>54898497
>Like 4e/German 5e with the 2050 sourcebook
I don't think 5e actually needs specially ruled old matrix tech that doesn't work alongside modern tech. They tried with the Hong Kong book and 2050, and it was kinda shit each time.

>>54900019
>how do you ensure the NAN gets established in a reasonable fashion
Make the fair and reasonable assumption that the fifth and sixth world have a much larger AmerInd population than the gripers tend to allow for.

>>54900019
I mean isn't that the whole point of NAN that "a shaman did it"? Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible.

The way to make it make more sense is for the native americans to be a little bit more on the aggression. No resource rush.

Imagine this; Native americans are among the first to learn how to effectively harness magic, and they do it quite well. And that's very worrysome. So the US wants to control this, forced registrations of native americans, but some radical Native Americans fight back using magic. So a populist wave of "Goddamn these magic wielders are dangerous and we oughta do something about it." and boom shakalaka you got yourself an all out war where natives are either fighting back or being rounded up (for safekeeping). Give a GGD level magic ritual or something like that to end the war, or maybe have a great dragon side with/start negotiations for the native american population.

Then comes that boolstering of the population of the NAN states with the "just one drop" policy were anyone who has AmerInd blood can apply for citizenship (as I've heard happened, but I think that's earlier edition fluff so I haven't read it first hand) which of course a lot of metas or awakened are going to pick up on in hopes of less discrimination. As for how much better life is in the NAN states, that's up for debate.

Maybe it's not a lot more feasible but on the top of my head it feels better than a bogus resource rush and auschwitz for redskins.

>>54900384
>and boom shakalaka you got yourself an all out war where natives are either fighting back or being rounded up (for safekeeping)
Not to mention this was written back when native tensions were higher than where ever they're at now.

>>54900536
Well seems like it's the bit ol same as most minority problems even today. Low income or no jobs, poor schools and all that jazz. Which of course leads to a disproportionate amount of the prison population in the states were natives are prevalent, being native americans, as well as a high percentage of fatalaties in police shootings being native americans.

All in all it's not hard to write a (pretty justified) native lives matter plotline where it goes above an beyond on account of them having magic.

>>54898303
Oh wait I have one! Remove immortal elves.

Hoi Chummers

My Runners are about to get a follow-up job that I might need some help with

They played bodyguard for a band, but now one of the bands competitors fucked up and it's all out war. The Johnson might want them to return the favor and go and mess with one of the competitor bands concerts

how would I go about this? Simple racketeering? Impersonation and slander? Go there and shoot the place up (my runners would actually be pinkmohawk enough to do this)

>>54900882
If they're pink mohawk enough to shoot up a concert, they might be morally flexible enough to accept a wetwork job, and just take out a lead singer, or even an entire band.

>>54900934
yeah
I just didn't want it to be "just" a wetwork job

>>54900961
It has to look like an accident. For an extra twist, they have to leave at least one member of the band alive and so the band they're working for can invite him to their tribute concert for his fallen bandmembers.

>>54900993
I like how you think

I was going for the "ruin their career without actually killing them" route, i.e. ruining their standing with fans or w/e

It has recently come to my attention (while flipping through the Seattle sourcebook) that Lone Star lost the Seattle contract back in 2073 or something, and law enforcement is now run by Knight Errant. Was there a major reason for this? Did Lone Star fuck something up?

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>>54900866

>>54901019
In late 2071, Lone Star suffered a substantial setback as it was stripped of its contract to provide security for the Seattle metroplex, due to an apparent inability to apprehend the Mayan Cutter, and several failures related to the spread of tempo.

>>54898303
Jackpoint is compromised and hit squads are sent after every jackpointer. None are every heard from again. A jackpoint clone is made, but all the members are anonymous and non-cancerous.

>>54901099
But Jackpoint did get compromised. And no consequences were had.

>>54901099
I would argue that clockwork, red and that schizo shaman are okay-ish.
Snce they seem to do mostly nothing and dick around, compared to the rest.

>>54901150
Thorn too.

Fuck the Tir.

>>54901150
But my big question is; Did Bull actually dab?

>>54898255
chummer please, have you looked at the document? if CGL text is iron then this has the density of aerogel. Compress that to normal text density and I'm sure you'd get 80 pages tops

>>54901220
Sorry ?

I honestly don't care if CGL writers want to use some physical meme that should be dead and buried in the SR universe. Bull deserves death anyway.

Okay i got some questions to bug spirits.

-Do fleshforms get spirit powers and the kind specific power, could a bee spirit fleshform fly and poision people via punching?

-What are hives/nests for, what do bug spirits gain by going through the process of remodeling their territory ?

-There are larvae mentioned in SG, do bug spirits need a grow peroid after they have claimed a vessle and what does it mean for fleshforms ?

-What are the relations between bug spirits and their mundane animal counterparts ?

>>54900838
>Well seems like it's the bit ol same as most minority problems even today
That's because you have a modern perspective on old issues that never eventuated to the degree they could have, given the right (wrong) push of greater oppression - oppression that was decided against.

>>54901602
>What are hives/nests for, what do bug spirits gain by going through the process of remodeling their territory ?
a secure place to bring their Queen in
>What are the relations between bug spirits and their mundane animal counterparts ?
Insect spirits are only called that because of their behaviour
They have NOTHING to do with insects otherwise

>>54901150
Also maybe they skip out on sending a hit squad after Laughing Man and Orange Queen. Y'know, for the sake of the hit squad.

>>54901150
>clockwork is okay

Nigger are you serious?

>>54902279
Clockwork basically gets by on the cockroach rule that everything will die before them.

>>54902279
>>54902297
He also gets points for fucking with Netcat and Slamm-O.

>>54902354
now he just needs to start fucking Netcat and Slamm-O

>>54902279
>Nigger are you serious?

From the point that clockwork is actually an interesting CHARACTER, yeah.
If clockwork is a decent human being?, fuck no. The single positive trait clockwork posesses is not beign Kane.

>>54901602
bump

what's best cheap armor for a trip into radioactive hellhole?

>>54902458
>what's best cheap armor for a trip into radioactive hellhole?
Chummer, don't cheap out when you travel into the SOX. Your live is worth more than that

>>54894850
I liked the setting and the mixture magic and stuff. I wanted to do a campaign where everyone is poor as fuck and everyone literally needs to count their bullets.

>>54899090
My friend has started up a Rogue Trader game. Its kinda akward really because he started Shadowrun, then I started Shadowrun, then he stopped Shadowrun and started Rogue Trader, then I stopped Shadowrun.

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Head's up, new Release build of Chummer just got pushed.

>>54901344
>Compress that to normal text density and I'm sure you'd get 80 pages tops
>80 fucking pages of matrix rules
No.

>>54902597
Did you get this message from last thread?
>Hey, minor issue that I only noticed because I was fucking around with vehicle values for an above post? The Hyundai Shin-Hyung isn't displaying the extra mod slots it got in Rigger 5. It should have +4 Body Slots, for 14, and it only has 10.

>Also, Chummer still isn't rounding Biocompatibility and Adapsin correctly. It's supposed to round down to the nearest .1, but it doesn't for Used. It applies a multiplier of 1.15 for Biocompatibility/Adapsin when it should be 1.1. Minor, but it could be a serious issue for characters flirting with .1 Essence.

>>54901602
adding another question to the list, what would you recommend a streetscum runner to bring along when a fight with bug spirits is coming? Assuming they did their legwork.

>>54902656
Isn't it half fluff?

>>54902723
Cyanide pills.

>>54902743
yup. Remember that these 80 pages are used in replacement of the matrix chapter and matrix sourcebook, which are far more than 80 pages

>>54902749
This tbqh. You can at least save yourself from being turned into a hive minion.

>>54902743
Most of it is either fluff, or OOC justification for why the new rules make sense from a realistic/in-universe perspective. The actual word-count dedicated to the rules themselves are quite light.

It's a straight upgrade to the official Matrix rules, both through making more sense and being easier to follow.

>>54898804
>i cant think of anything myself that wouldn't invaidate any other archetypes
Maybe give them the ability to wirelessly access things that don't actually have wireless capabilities/enabled? You'd probably have to nerf them into the ground to make that viable, but you'd be able to justify the hatred some groups have of them like that.

>>54902484
something is better than nothing
not in position to spend a lot of cash

>>54902676
Sorry, missed that one. Hmmmm. Okay, so I've fixed the body mod slot issue in the next commit.

As far as used is concerned, freelancers keep giving me conflicting reports on how it's supposed to stack. Several of them have said that it's just supposed to be -0.1, which I'm going with for now because it means I don't need to faff about with making it behave properly. I've sent several angry emails to Goodman about it already.

>>54898804
Magic vs. mundane (if you can call chrome mundane) is a matter of progression, not power.

Magic is primarily achieved through chargen and char improvement resources, and you'll get 90% of what magical prowess you have straight out of chargen and then barely progress throughout the game. Chrome (or bioware) is pretty limited due to availability during chargen, but can not only be obtained for essentially nothing but Nuyen in increasingly higher grades, but even physically stolen, and chromed (or chrome-to-be) characters experience large amounts of progression DURING the game.

There's another, lesser but similar mechanic going on in regards to mundanes relying more on gear and receiving more benefit from it as the game progresses and they're able to upgrade it as opposed to less gear-reliant mages, who, while they're able to afford more expensive foci, are still limited in their focus use by their magic, which costs big karma bucks to raise.

>>54902973
> In game terms, the Essence cost of implants of the particular chosen type are reduced by ten percent, rounded down to the tenth. This rebate is cumulative with the reduction offered by the chosen ’ware’s grade, if any (e.g., the reduction for alphaware of 0.8 is reduced by ten percent, or 0.08, to become 0.72, and is rounded down to 0.7).
I don't think there's a lot of ambiguity there. Used would get reduced to 1.125, which then reduces to 1.10 after rounding.

It even shows in the example that you apply the 10% to get a pre-rounding value, then round it, rather than just applying a .1 reduction directly.

There isn't really any ambiguity at all there, and any freelancers who say otherwise clearly haven't even actually read the rules, where the example lays out the entire mathematical process for determining it.

>>54903341
>and any freelancers who say otherwise clearly haven't even actually read the rules
anon, that's most of the CGL freelancers

>>54902982
>Magic is primarily achieved through chargen and char improvement resources, and you'll get 90% of what magical prowess you have straight out of chargen and then barely progress throughout the game. Chrome (or bioware) is pretty limited due to availability during chargen, but can not only be obtained for essentially nothing but Nuyen in increasingly higher grades, but even physically stolen, and chromed (or chrome-to-be) characters experience large amounts of progression DURING the game.
You have that entirely backwards.

Based on the amount of Karma/Nuyen you get for run rewards, chrome characters will start with more or less 100% of their kit straight out of chargen but struggle to purchase even a single upgrade by the time the campaign is halfway over because they're simply barely paid anything after lifestyles, replacement SINs, ammunition, medkit supplies, vehicle repairs, and so on are taken into account. You get more than enough to pay your expenses, but the amount left over adds up extremely slowly compared to the tens or hundreds of thousands of nuyen that 'ware upgrades cost.

Mages, on the other hand, start the game with many of their major tools missing. Adepts start with a very limited amount of PP, mages start with no real foci or metamagics to speak of - that kind of thing. Within the first two runs, however, the mage has the opportunity to Initiate once, and it keeps going at that pace, with Magicians and Adepts picking up a new Metamagic or +1 PP every couple of runs.

By the time the street samurai, the decker, or the rigger has been able to save up enough money for an upgrade to their 'ware/deck/primary drones? The mage/adept has already picked up several upgrades to their abilities.

Magic has the progression, mundane has the chargen power.

>>54903425
I think your karma/nuyen reward patterns are directly to the karma/nuyen reward patterns I experience, where karma is very precious but Nuyen (and the opportunity to earn extra nuyen through theft, cons, etc) is much larger.

I think what you'd want is to solve the issue of there being an extra chargen category for Magic/Resonance that has no bearing on mundanes. Add another one: Shiny and Chrome. Make it grant extra availability ONLY for the purposes of tech/chrome stuff and possibly a discount on them for taking increasingly high grades in it, same as taking a high Magic score. But since it takes up some chargen priority instead of being an automatic E for mundanes means you get more balance.

>>54903480
speaking of karma/nuyen

the "Working for the Man/People" thing works like this, correct?
>working for the man gives you nuyen in exchange for karma
>working for the people gives you karma in exchange for nuyen but can only be done to regain karma spent on working for the man

or am I getting this wrong?

>>54903567
They're both not "official" outside of Missions I believe, so their existence and the rate at which they convert are always up to your GM to determine.

I'm not aware of the specific clause you attached to Working for the People.

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>>54903480
So you want someone to have to double-dip in both Resources and Chrome in order to actually buy something?

That's retarded.

I get that you're trying to think of ideas for how to fix this non-problem, but that's a bad idea.

>I think your karma/nuyen reward patterns are directly to the karma/nuyen reward patterns I experience, where karma is very precious but Nuyen (and the opportunity to earn extra nuyen through theft, cons, etc) is much larger.
I'm glad your GM homebrews that shit, but by the book most runs will top out in the 10k-20k nuyen bracket for fairly high-end runs.

After buying another month of a Medium lifestyle, replacing a burned Rating 2 SIN and licenses, purchasing several new magazines of APDS, and so forth, that leaves you with money left over. But not a lot of money, compared to the cost of that 217k nuyen Wired Reflexes 3 that you want to upgrade to from your Wired Reflexes 2, or the 345k nuyen Sony CIY-720 your Decker needs as an upgrade, or whatever.

Even if your GM is dropping 50k+ nuyen on you per run - which is 3-5 times higher than the suggested rewards - it's still taking you 4+ sessions to buy an upgrade that the Adept got after 2.

And then, on top of that, Foci - like Qi Foci - are also way cheaper nuyen-wise than 'ware that grants an equivalent bonus.

The progression curve isn't just in the favor of the Awakened, it's wildly in the favor of the Awakened. Mundanes start strong out of chargen, but after that their advancement is basically nonexistent. Awakened, on the other hand, start out lagging a little, without having been able to get all of their necessary tools out of chargen, but they advance so much so fast that they catch up and exceed the mundanes in extremely short order.

>>54903588
huh
so in official terms, you can always spend nuyen to gain additional karma after a mission?

I need to bring this up with my GM if that is the case. Though it already seems to be a houserule-ish type of thing as it stands, seeing as it's Missions-based

tl/dr he basically allows us to do this so I always assumed this was CRB, but never bothered to check because it somewhat makes sense.
Could you tell me which of the books in the pastebin has this ?

>>54903604
>So you want someone to have to double-dip in both Resources and Chrome in order to actually buy something?
Yes, except putting points in Chrome gives you a massive discount and the availability to let you actually access higher grade 'ware at chargen without having to spend karma in restricted gear qualities or anything (and if you really need Nuyen after the discount, that Karma can then be turned into Nuyen).

>I'm glad your GM homebrews that shit, but by the book most runs will top out in the 10k-20k nuyen bracket for fairly high-end runs.
It's more that I definitely don't get 13+ Karma to initiate after 2 runs, so no, that Adept ain't getting shit.

The Nuyen rewards are pretty on par with the 10-20k bracket, but Karma is much more scarce.

I'm also not entirely sure what you're doing that's so covert you need to burn all your stuff but still had you shoot "several" magazines of APDS.

Your Qi Foci example also ignores the restriction of Force v. Magic. A +1 Attribute Qi Focus has Force 4, costs 8 Karma to bond and is cutting into the cap of total number of foci and total force of foci you can have, as determined by magic. Yes, the Nuyen cost isn't extreme, but the Karma cost cuts in, and the limits to your number of foci and force is determined by Magic, which again costs the big karma bucks, much more than initiation does, not to mention having to pay to initiate to raise your magic cap first.

>>54903604
Would reducing Ware nuYen costs and increasing essence costs for awakened soften that problem?
It would mean that you don't need as much money to buy ware, while also keeping awakened from using ware by increasing the essence cost they incur
Keep essence costs for mundanes, maybe reduce it for them/give them extra essence to spend

>>54903683
I'm in favor of increasing the essence costs honestly, since the hybridization is the real problem in terms of powercreep.

If you think magics outdo mundanes so much you'll have to see what an Adept that doesn't have to spend half his PP on shit he can easily get with 'ware can do compared to a regular magic one.

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What is the reason behind insect spirit invasion?

They can reporduce on Earth or even just survive without fucked up magic that is bound to piss natives off for long there. There is nothing here they can bring back to their home metaplane.

Why?

>>54903718
It's just their nature. Spirits do what spirits do.

>>54903718
overpopulation
the bug spirit metaplane is crowded as fuck so they constantly seek new places to enter

>>54903610
I think the fact it comes as a standard integrated feature in Chummer makes many people/GMs just allow it by default at the rates Chummer uses.

>>54903683
>Would reducing Ware nuYen costs and increasing essence costs for awakened soften that problem?
Reducing the 'ware nuyen cost would fix a lot of that. Increasing Essence costs for Awakened wouldn't do shit, since that's not what I was talking about in the first place.

>>54903677
>The Nuyen rewards are pretty on par with the 10-20k bracket, but Karma is much more scarce.
>It's more that I definitely don't get 13+ Karma to initiate after 2 runs, so no, that Adept ain't getting shit.
If your character survived (+2), the group completed all objectives (+2), and dealt someone with even a single 12+ dice pool (+2), they're earning 6 Karma on that mission. 8 Karma if it was a feel-good.

On top of the fact that your character gets to start with 7 karma leftover from chargen, you should have 13 karma after just the first run, let alone the second mission.

>>54903745
so transoformation (either way) is unlimited?

>>54903760
>On top of the fact that your character gets to start with 7 karma leftover from chargen
Way to include chargen resources in your explanation of how progression after chargen works, mate.

>>54903762
Ask your GM. It's literally a badly documented Missions only feature.

>>54903730
Woudln’t some metaplane that isn’t inherently hostile to them be a better pick?

>>54903770
>Way to include chargen resources in your explanation of how progression after chargen works, mate.
Either way, you should expect to earn about 6 karma per run - 8 karma for a good feelings run, 4 karma for a cold-hearted bastard run - meaning even if you have literally no chargen resources leftover, it's going to take you at most 3 normal runs to save up enough Karma to Initiate.

After 3 runs, do you know how many upgrades the Street Samurai can afford? After he's paid for his Lifestyle and other expenses out of his (being generous) 15k per run rewards?

Nothing substantive. While the Adept just got another +1 Reaction and +1d6 Initiative, the Street Samurai can now afford some Platelet Factories, if he's lucky. It'll be 20 runs before he can afford to upgrade his Initiative like the Adept just did.

Awakened advance much, much faster than mundanes.

>>54903818
Definitely. But this is the one the have access to and want. If you want to find them another I'm sure they'll gladly take it, but they're not gonna give up attempts to take over ours.

They have that many bugs.

>>54902723
Flamethrowers and Incendiary Grenades.

>>54903786
any one missions book in particular, or in all of 'em?

>>54903832
which just means that Initiating is far too easy
you should be taking at least 8-10 sessions before being able to initiate

>>54903832
I don't know, at this point your examples of lifestyle and mission expenses seemed to honestly be kind of fringe cases. Plus sure, the Mage doesn't burn many resources on a mission, but unless your adept is literally just running around with Killing Hands he still has expenses aswell.

The Improved Reflexes example also is skewered to the benefit of your explanation by costing 1.5 for the first rank, which is paid, again, during chargen for the first level, or if not, then 1 grade of initiation would fall .5 PP short of actually giving you that upgrade that quickly.

Furthermore, there's a difference between the PAY for your mission and the Nuyen you can ACQUIRE during or from a mission using additional means, from cons to theft and fencing to whatever else, or even just selling info you obtained from doing what you did. There's a whole lot of potential right there.

>>54903865
Literally Missions FAQ/Errata/Questions for SR 5 Missions I believe.

I'm not talking about a sourcebook here, I'm talking about the Missions program.

>>54903877
Maybe if it actually upped your magic.

You'll take plenty of sessions to initiate and then actually up your MAG after that. I'd rather do some rebalancing of spirits and all that jazz, or require you to up your Magic to your new cap before you can initiate again, but that really only works for full mages, because Adepts would be pretty fucked without getting some extra PP fairly quickly due to shit like the initiative arms race eating half their PP right away.

>>54903832
>meaning even if you have literally no chargen resources leftover, it's going to take you at most 3 normal runs to save up enough Karma to Initiate.
And have 5 karma leftover, meaning after 2 more runs you have 17 karma and become a Grade 2 Initiate.

And let's not forget the discounts you get for things like joining a magical group. If you have a Group, perform an Ordeal, and receive schooling from your Group, you're getting a 30% price reduction. Even assuming that Karma costs round up, that means that an Awakened can easily be looking at only 10 Karma for their first Initiate Grade, 12 for the second, and 14 for the third.

>>54903877
>which just means that Initiating is far too easy
Sure, that's fair. I agree.

>>54903884
Again, it's cool that your GM gives you huge bonus moneymaking opportunities, but the standard rewards are supposed to be ~15k nuyen before expenses, and ~6 karma.

>I don't know, at this point your examples of lifestyle and mission expenses seemed to honestly be kind of fringe cases.
Burning 5k a month on a Medium Lifestyle, 5k nuyen per burned Rating 2 SIN, and so forth are 'fringe cases?'

I get that you don't want this math to be true, but that's just a stupid thing to say.

>>54903901
right

thanks, chummer

>>54903931
>but the standard rewards are supposed to be ~15k nuyen before expenses, and ~6 karma.
It really just sounds to me like your expenses are completely out of the ordinary, or your frequency of runs is very low. Though if you expect everyone to take a month to initiate after every other run that makes sense.

>Burning 5k a month on a Medium Lifestyle, 5k nuyen per burned Rating 2 SIN, and so forth are 'fringe cases?'
They're fringe cases in that, if you're requiring that high-tier of an upkeep, you should be doing high-tier work that's paying a lot more.

>>54903931
>And let's not forget the discounts you get for things like joining a magical group. If you have a Group, perform an Ordeal, and receive schooling from your Group, you're getting a 30% price reduction. Even assuming that Karma costs round up, that means that an Awakened can easily be looking at only 10 Karma for their first Initiate Grade, 12 for the second, and 14 for the third.
And if it's just the Ordeal and Group, no Schooling, that's still just 11/13/15.

>>54903964
>high-tier
A run that has you go against someone with a 14 dice pool (+3), were outnumbered 3:1 in a single combat (+1), risked exposure/raised public profile (+1), faced three different entire spirits in a single encounter - not over the course of the entire run, but a single encounter (+1), and the whole thing was accomplished with great speed and subtlety (+1), still only pays 3k*7=21k nuyen.

I don't think you understand what high-tier rewards actually are according to the actual book.

>It really just sounds to me like your expenses are completely out of the ordinary, or your frequency of runs is very low.
If your runners are doing an entire run - including pre-run legwork and between-run downtime for healing, restocking, repairs, and so forth if nothing else - more than twice per month, your run frequency is crazy high. You should expect at least every other run to have a month of Lifestyle taken out of it.

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>>54902749
>>54903853
So bascially:
>Some suicide device like a cyanide tooth compartment.
>High AP weapons like Fire,APDS rounds, Monofilament Chainsaws

And by my knowledge
>Insecticide grenades.

>>54904058
I really just see two options here:

You examine if all that upkeep and all those resources spent like firing several mags of APDS is really necessary, or if maybe regular bullets and all that would have done the job, and if its not necessary you cut down on your expenses, maybe lower your lifestyle

OR

if all that overhang IS necessary - and from what youve said I trust you that it very well may be - then the next time Mr. Johnson offers to pay you 15k for a job that's going to cost you 12k in resources, you tell him to fuck off.

>>54904139
> then the next time Mr. Johnson offers to pay you 15k for a job that's going to cost you 12k in resources, you tell him to fuck off.

That
Pretty much, also it's always worth a try to talk with you GM about ir or have your Face haggle the final payment plus reasonable expenses

>>54904173
Or take advantage of all the other opportunities that crop up to cash in extra Nuyen on a Shadowrun, since you're already doing crime anyway.

Other than that, if we are to take the books calculation of Nuyen run rewards with its whole +1 and +2 that as gospel with the way anon has argued so far - which is odd considering the discussion started on how to rebalance something the book HASN'T done well - then we can only assume that it is his and his teams fault that they are spending such expensive resources on dispatching a 12+ Dice Pool opponent that the book only allots 3k to.

Alright, chummers. We know everybody here thinks JackPoint is cancerous and all its users are terrible, but we also know that 'anonymous shadowrunner forum' is a stupid idea that would sell no books ever.

So, come up with an idea for a new JackPointer that you think is both original and interesting.

>>54904196
Everyone original and interesting I can think of wouldn't hang out on Jackpoint because of the other Jackpointers.

>>54904196
A crippled Rigger who only posts on Jackpoint during his commute, and even then only to shitpost and troll the regular users. His username would be B&.

>>54904222
Assume a complete and total membership wipe (save those that are really, truly necessary for the lore to continue making sense: Wordsmyth, Orange Queen, Laughing Man, Frosty, and the other ones that are literally just exposition devices who never post unless it's directly related to them).

>>54904311
I feel like Laughing Man and Frosty actually avoid posting because of the others a lot too.

First of all I would bring back FastJack himself, though.

As for an interesting add, well, I think it would be nice to have a mid-to-high tier corp headhunter kind of a guy in there. The kind of dude who sits comfortably on the corporate ladder in a nice, towering HQ in corporate territory and is basically the high-tier Johnson without being the big boss "literally a dragon/the owner of a megacorp" tier guy that's just there for expository banter. He'd post not so much on stuff like gear articles, though he might rarely, but moreso on the fluff or behavioral ones, and kind of give the view of a Johnson on how they perceive things, or expressing his disdain for methods a gangbanger style runner might do but which he doesn't expect from a professional. His posting would primarily be responses to the other Jackpointers and who they are and how they act, I think, just to kind of give that kind of perspective. I don't really think we ever had a big Mr. Johnson kind of poster that was still JUST a Johnson and not also Powerful Plotguy McGee.

>>54902458
blease respond

>>54904196
I'd like to see either a Changeling poster or a Shifter poster, to call out 2XL and his ilk on their NOBODY HAS IT WORSE THAN TROGS bullshit.

Changeling poster would probably have Shiva Arms and maybe extra eyes or something, be a street doc, call him SURGEon.

Shifter, of course, would be a wolf shifter for werewolf jokes, and probably be from Yakut, capitalizing on how difficult it is for humans to operate there. Call him CyberianHusky.

>>54902458
>>54904467
Armor Jacket with Radiation Shielding 6. It's not the greatest, but it's the cheapest you'll find.

Remember to get a lead codpiece.

>>54904475
Honestly Clockwork could call them out on their shit compared to Hobgoblins but Netcat is already raging anyway so he'd just get banned. Ironically she could also call them out, considering only select types of Trog are hunted and sold to corps for experiments as opposed to pretty much any Technomancer.

>>54904467
I'm gonna pretend you asked for the most efficient yet cheap option and recommend you the Ares Victory Wild Hunt with choosing your custom protection to be Radiation. 3k for the armor and rating 6 rad protection right there. If you have a little more cash get the Big Game Hunter with the same protection but better armor, for 5k.

>>54904515
Clockwork DID actually call him out on it, and his response was basically just saying 'shut up', and that went nowhere.

Also maybe I like Changelings and Shifters. Sure they're speshul snowflakes or whatever but c'mon not really any moreso than somebody who's got swords in their arms, lives by the samurai code, and works as a professional thief/spy.

>>54904196
I want to see a Sasquatch that's written as simultaneously the most likeable, down-to-earth jackpointer most of the time, yet is a raging, frothing-at-the-mouth ecoterrorist when ecological/corporate issues come up.

>>54904566
"The Ghost Dance did nothing wrong."

>>54904566
I don't think any writer at CGL could manage that depth of characterization.

>>54898497
>Give all the equipment manufactured from-to dates so you can tell what's available when, stuff like that.

Balancing that would be a fucking nightmare, especially when people say, "My character is 48 and has a Fuchi deck and CatCO wires, but also some EVO geneware."

>>54904566
I know a dutch guy like this, he's a very comfy down to earth guy and is very nice and polite but at the same time he's full on 1488 gas the jews race war now.

>>54904291
I very much agree, have jackpoint less of an exposition device and more like something that feels like actual (albeit more or less insane) people doing actual cyberpunk crimes and thinks that the reader is actually able to get information out of context.

Like having a text in Chrome flesh where some actual green nosed barrens kid asks for how to make an murder look like an accident... after the murder took place, quick answers are welcome.

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>>54904475
>>54904566

>>54904487
it wouldn't work because radiation shielding requires it to be a totally sealed suit (with helmet), just like chemical seal.

>>54904998
the post about 'Where's the turbo, the stuff that makes you use 100 percent of your brain instead of 10?', 'are you serious', 'be nice she dropped out of school in sixth grade dude' was nice.

>>54904998
Reminder that Chrome Flesh has a trigger warning.

>>54905235
one that makes sense mind you
because it's actually talking about ptsd, mental illness, depression, suicidal tendencies, and the stuff that causes all those.

>>54905246
>because it's actually talking about ptsd, mental illness, depression, suicidal tendencies, and the stuff that causes all those.
Yes, which means it doesn't make sense.

There's a difference between talking about those things and what causes them and ACTUALLY BEING the things that cause them.

>>54905264
Oh wait, trigger warning, like, it'd trigger the people. No I thought the warning was about triggers and why you shouldn't use an RPG book as a mental health help guide.

>>54903610
It's mentioned in the seasonal 'Missions' pdf. Read through them even if you don't play Missions, they sometimes have cool optional rules. Sometimes they even have cool character artwork. Sarah Silverleaf is my bio-auged waifu.

>>54905301
Yeah exactly that kind of trigger warning. The one only brainless idiots would come up with and attach to what they attached it to.

I have a panic disorder. I get panic attacks. No part of talking ABOUT panic disorders or about the situations in which I suffer an attack, which I have spoken about at length to doctors, do anything to upset or trigger me.

One of the things that gives me the worst attacks are invasive (medical) procedures. Needles, cutting, injections. Chrome Flesh is FULL of both texts and especially images like that. Did those braindead idiots think to attach a warning to that? No, which is why they're braindead and not just idiots. A regular idiot would have attached the warning to that kind of stuff. A person that had actually talked to anyone suffering from that stuff would realize that reading a fucking book in front of me is a stark fucking difference to actually being stuck with a knife, and does absolutely nothing to panic me.

>>54902429
>interesting character

Really though? His whole shtick is just being a bigot.

>>54905781
And that is all it takes to make him more interesting than 95% of other jackpointers.

>>54905781
He's not just "a bigot". He has legitimate points about a lot of the things he warns about, such as Technomancers. He also acts on it.

>>54905816
Shit, I guess you're right.

Removing Jackpoint when?

>>54902743
Yeah, and half of the crunch is gear listings and examples

>>54902743
>Isn't it half fluff?
Even if you assume that it's only 80 pages when properly compressed, and that half of it isn't even crunch, 40 pages of crunch just for the matrix system is No as fuck.

And that's assuming both of those points are true, and I'm pretty sure that's overly generous.

>>54902597
There seems to be a lock up issue when accessing the Assault Rifle weapon section while having State of the Art ADL activated by the way.
The thing locks up when you select the AUG-CSL III.

>>54906304
chummer, the matrix chapter in the CRB is 40 pages, the rigger chapter additionally 10 pages
if Data Trails is somehow less than 30 pages long, then yes, EOTM is longer than the matrix parts
Because it substitutes for ALL matrix chapters and books

>>54905235
Which is pretty fucking stupid.

The only thing i found triggering about that whole book was calling ADHD a Mental illnes.

Well, at least they didn't do it like the eclipse phase people and called it an derangement.
For a game that's so busy with shilling for SJW you'd think that they would put a little more effort into it.

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>Load up Prototype Transhuman character in career mode in 5.194
>-1 Essence, as expected
>Remove the bioware, get essence hole
>Re-add the bioware under Prototype transhuman flag, it fills the hole despite showing 0 ess cost
>mfw

It doesn't matter though, I simply set the base essence to 7.0 and the character works fine.

Only because I never, ever waste a single 0.1 point of essence when abusing that broken ass quality.

What specifically was wrong with the way this was handled before, yekka? It seemed to be RAW previously?

>>54903425
I don't think I'm alone in offering non-nuyen rewards sometimes. There are situations where it's cheaper for Mr. J to write off an expensive product that his corp produces than offering straight cash.
Why give them 1000 nuyen when you can give them 2000 nuyen worth of crap that only cost a few hundred nuyen to make and is just taking up warehouse space right now anyway?

>>54907152
Another idea would be to give the players some sort of pool. Like:

Only Ares products, or products from corp. that belong to Ares.
Only till availability 13
30.000 Nuyen per Player.

And then let the Players go shopping (let your Johnson look over the list to what is possible, just to avoid cheese)

>>54904196
Alamos 20k LARPer who is not a caricature.

>>54907083
It gave you a whole Point of essence to fill before, not incorporating cases like you only using 0,7 Points in bioware or similar stuff.

>>54900019
1-Shadowrun turns to alternate history pretty quick. We can assume there was a larger NA population in Shadow-verse with a slightly less fubar society.
2-Going back to native land and corporations, a huge deposit of oil or something is found on native land. At this point the pressure is on America they want that shit bad. The natives want to make the most of their new economic leverage to get some proper statues in society. America doesn't have time for that shit. Lucky for them magic is coming back, everyone is terrified of it and the natives are using it.

Which brings us to indiscriminate incarceration of any native. Some actually are studying magic but most are in the employ of these tribal corps. Most natives don't even really care that much about magic, they grew up in the modern world, it's as spooky to them as it is to anyway. What makes them salty is the fact that they finally had a shot at social dignity and it was taken away.
In this way they gain the sympathy and many other groups that feel they've been unfairly fucked over. While the NAN would be headed by natives it would the rallying point american's betrayed by america.

And, of course the Americans witchhunt turns out to yield actual witches. The Natives are ambivalent about the whole thing. They need the angry wizard to get the place in the world they feel they deserve. But at the same time that angry wizard is practising the old ways. The people don't want sorcery or oneness with nature, they want jobs, homes and electricity.

What the NAN becomes is an entity constantly trying to balance it's own nature. The Corporate Chiefs on one side trying to bring the bounty of the modern world to their people and the Neo-Shamans on the other vanguarding ancient rights and the strange new realities of an awakened world.

Trying to decide between the normal or collectors edition of the Run and Gun (minimal price difference due to a sale), can anybody tell me about their quality ? Do they fall apart unless bound like the core rulebook ?

Knowing this thread someone will ask me why I'm not using a pdf, and the answer is just preference.

>>54907358
DO NOT BUY CGL BOOKS
YOU HAD ONE JOB

>>54904196
>anonymous shadowrunner forum is stupid and wouldn't sell

You mean like Shadowlands, the pseudo-anonymous forum where posters would appear once in a book then never again, because there were hundreds of users with different areas of interest and expertise, instead of the same 10 JP jackoffs in every book?

>>54907367
Not going through 200+ pages of material on a pdf, I enjoy not wearing glasses. Plus nothing beats physical books at the table. Fucking kids and their fucking tables and laptops they sit behind instead of immersing themselves.

>>54907497
>He sits at a physical table

>>54907497
nothing is more immersive than spending 10 minutes of game time reading a table of contents to find what you're looking for and then 5 more minutes of searching to find the table for a +1 modifier

just use CTRL+F so your players dont forget this is a game not a hide-and-go-seek rules simulator

>>54907526
If the book even has a table of contents pointing out where mechanical information is as opposed to just some vague phrases.

I'm looking at you, Chrome Flesh.

>>54907539
Try Data Trails on for size

If your players can deal with that organizational disaster physically at your table I salute them

>>54907552
Salute me, i was among the first People to shift through the fucking AI rules (good waste of time during a night shift) to build an AI streetsam.
A month or so later, somebody wrote a sum-up on the official forums, that could have saved me quite some time.

>>54907619
Hey anon if you're an AI expert and stuff, can you tell me if it would be worth it for me as an Adept to buy some simple kinds of drones and just have them do stuff for me using their inbuilt pilot program since I'm not skilled in any programmy techno stuff to make my own or alter them significantly?

If so, what kind of drones could be useful and what could they do for me?

>>54907310

Right, but it only gave it to you at Chargen. Not like you left chargen with 6.3 Ess in that case.

It was a "Use it or lose it" and only available at chargen

>>54907648
Flyspy, flyspy all along. If you have the ADL rules, there is a similar drone without the flying capabilities, but with a gecko Strip around ist spherical Body and an inbuilt blinding light.

also those Medusadrones from Cutting Aces, upgrade them with cameras of various Kinds and stick them around your Body.

You want your drones to be your many eyes, since you lack the capabilities to astrally Project.
If you really have a lot of nuyen to burn, get a Nissan Rotodrone with some sniper rifle to protect you from very high in the sky.

>>54907774
Fuck, i meant flying eye
The fly spy is also nice, but the flying eyes capability to provide both scouting and cover if necessary, is really neat. Its also super cheap so you don't have to cry if you lose one and you can always carry one in your coat.

>>54907774
The drone weapon mount rules in Rigger 5.0 say that Mini drones can mount "single-shot grenades". What exactly are those or rather what kind of weapon pattern do I use for those? Grenade Launcher appears later in the list, so it's not that.

Is it like an underbarrel launcher or something? How would I know what to roll?

>>54907526
If I need a quick reference I will pull out my laptop and ctrl + f it, that's not problem. Otherwise use books.

>>54907860
when do you not need a quick reference


wait do you actually read the short stories

>>54907859
No further Explanation anywhere, desu.
I'd probably rule it as a simple grenade compartment. When triggered, it rolls/falls out of it.
Everything else wouldnt make much sense, you would need to put the pressure chamber and the tube somewhere.

>>54907895
So its a great way to blow either yourself or your drone up?

>>54907886
When you know the book ? What, do you have a memory of a goldfish or are retarded ?

>>54907907
well, you can trigger *nades wirelessly, so thats not really a Problem.
let the drone dump the egg, move her behind cover and then detonate. Or use a flying drone and have some death from above for cheap.
Or use smokegrenades

>>54907859
desu, if you plan to mod your drone, ask your GM if drones can have overflow, maybe in heigh of their body attribute. Since it's pretty shit that a drone goes from a slightly impaired killing machine to a expensive brick.

Then you should use the vehicle upgrade rules, since they offer more and are in general better written, also drone rupgrade rules are optional. Usually you would use vehicle rules for them.

>>54907955
do you play with like just corebook, run&gun, and run faster at your table?

>>54907974
Well, going by what I read in Rigger 5.0 any drone you buy has 1 point worth of attribute upgrade in it at no mod point cost, which for the simple stuff I want is probably enough if I put it into pilot. Problem is that some stuff doesn't have an updated listing for better stats in the big table in Rigger 5.0, so they remain pretty crummy and I don't know how to reconcile them with rules about mod points and room for weapon mounts from R5.

>>54907445
Except jackpoint does the same thing. And don't pretend shadowland didn't have any 'core' users

>CGL turned 'Red' from Dunkelzhan's will into a Mary Sue vampire from before the sixth age, then made him a jackpointer

>>54907987
At the moment I only got the core book and street grimhowyouspellit (I hunt for cheap sales), but I want to purchase run and gun for the extra stuff. It's not mandatory for us thought, I'm open for house ruling stuff like new equipment and skills as long as they're balance.

>>54908416
Please stop buying CGL books, we need them to die so the IP goes to someone competent. Maybe the Germans can just do it and we get translations.

>>54908110
Well, you could also use a vehicle and use it as drone, only that vehicles get better protection from shock damage and got pseudo hardened armor.

You may want to look up entertainment system cyclops.

>>54908926
So what's the final tally on Autosofts that officially exist?
Armorer seems to be a bit of a question for example.
I'm also not entirely sure in regards to what sort of tools or appendages drones are automatically considered to have to actually capitalize on some of these autosofts, like First Aid.

>>54904656
Well, what do you do if somebody says that now?

>>54908971
Read Rigger 5.0.

>>54909042
I did, and that's not the final tally.

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>>54899010
Sure love the ones who fucked up the manasphere & brought the horrors closer. Dunkelzahn died for your sins

>>54909404
If a child is given a gun without knowing of its danger, accidentally fires and wounds someone, do you fault the child? Or the person that gave the gun?

>>54898804
I like the idea of introducing technoadepts, who can run with full bonuses for wireless without being wireless, who can overclock enhanced functions to be better/perform faster (artificially make it work like a higher grade of 'ware) & cyberware becomes one with their body making it cheaper & perhaps not cause essence drain while still requiring essence (handled like blood crystal magic limbs)

>>54909487
Yes. Both.
Even a kid should know better than to fuck with something they don't know about. And ignorance hasn't been a valid legal defense for fucking up for ages now.

>>54909487
>calling a group of militants children
Involuntary manslaughter is still a crime

>>54909564
Burgerclaps shouldn't have tried to genocide them then.

>>54909602
True, but genocide is literally nothing compared to the horrors

>>54905184
Then urban explorer maybe ?

>>54908684
The sales I'm hunting are second handed if it makes you feel better.

>>54897624
>>54897809

Anyone have a dropbox or something of this RPG? I'm interested, but I can't find anything on it.

>>54897624
>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/783548120/1879-london-adventure-and-sourcebook


This reads like gaslamp shadowrun.
ffs, one of the illustrations of the GM book has a troll called "Smedley" and a guy called Dodger fleeing from the Police

wtf
seriously wtf

>>54910098

Conceptually I can get behind the idea.

There was a post going around on tumblr a while back that people have a pretty fucking wrong view of "Steampunk". If you view it as an aesthetic only, it's garbage (obviously.) But not only that, most people show it as the upper class and people with fucking fancy hats with cogs on it. That's not "Punk".

The actual steampunk would focus on the people fucked Imperial power structures of the era. I think if it were framed properly with proper tech (Large, awkward, shitty prosthetics) it has legs.

>>54910477
It's sad that this much isn't obvious to most people. If steampunk isn't punk it's just cogfop.

Same thing with cyberpunk, i wish my GM would run a cyberpunk game with shadowrun, but instead we play "future criminals", painted as shadowrun.

>>54910515
>i wish my GM would run a cyberpunk game with shadowrun, but instead we play "future criminals"

Can you expand on this? I feel like my campaign could be described in the same way, but I want to make sure I understand the problem before I go and overthink things

>>54908270
Jackpoint doesn't really do the same thing to the same extent. They're only just now managing to really get there with non-core posters, and weaning the same handful of wankers off posting on everything isn't happening at all.

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>>54909404

>>54909768
As long as you're not giving money to CGL, it's all good.

>>54910774
What did he mean by this?

>>54874789
Does flying make them harder to shoot or something? Seems like sniper fire or magic should be pretty effective still

>>54910945
Dunk had some crazy shit lined up for humanity leading up to the war against the horrors, like the plan to drake-ify everyone through immunisation injections, which was foiled by Lofwyr.

>>54911059
So Lofwyr is the good guy now?

>>54911090
There are no good great dragons or bad great dragons. Only great dragons that currently look like they're working with or against your interests.

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>>54910734
Oh were do i start? It's multiple little things that come together

First of all, there is no discrimination against other meta types or seperation between them. There are no walled off elf-only communitys, you meet orks in every position, nobody is carefull around the cybered up ork sammy.

Magic pretty neat, that's what everybody seems to think. Witchhunts, what are those? Our mages can cast away and nobody seems to be bothered by it, after all "they have seen it in movies".

There seems to be some kind of Johnson Union, where they tell each other which runners try do mess with their payment, are unproffesional or god forbid, take revenge on their Johnson for shit treatment. After all, which criminal middleman would profit from a sudden loss in Concurrence ?

The weather is always fine, no toxic rain, no devil rats around, everybody is healthy and healtcare seems to be free... for others. We changed the weather pattern once to prevent rain and that shit went on national TV.

We only work for the man and do his dirty work, i haven't had a hooded run in months where you blow up some laboratory where they experiment on humans.

Knight errant are the nicest fucking cyberpunk cops you will ever meet. No they don't just kill sinless in the barrens like Lone Star, they actually try to solve cases.
Trust me KE kills SINless any time when it solves their problem, they just won't get hot and bothered about it like LS.

I'm playing a shifter (my GM said he wantet one such character) and till now nobody tried to sell me, harvest my body for reagent's or treatet me as an animal (except my team of course).

Nature is just nature, none of that Mad Max toxic wasteland stuff or sacred treegroves where force 6 spirits and awakened critters run around.

But we got technology and are criminals, sooooo "Future Criminals"

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>>54911090
>Good guy
>dragon

The unfortunate truth of the matter is that, in their views, non-dragons exist to be pawns of dragons. Full stop.

Now to what end obviously differs between dragons, but even then the only reason they even use metahumanity is because they know they can't deal with the "horror problem" alone.

>>54910964
Makes you harder to punch at least and adds mobility. Also grenades are only semi-usefull.

>>54911120
What's up with Orange Queen right now anyway, after she got turned on by all the other dragons?

>>54911131
>There seems to be some kind of Johnson Union, where they tell each other which runners try do mess with their payment, are unproffesional or god forbid, take revenge on their Johnson for shit treatment
What is the street cred/notoriety mechanic/public awareness mechanic?

>>54909602
Guess they shouldn't have tried to launch a nuke and provoke WW3.

>>54911184
Dan't ask me omae, we haven't used that stuff in forever.

>>54897353
Was Ryse any fun? Its old enough that I can get it dirt cheap now and I did like the whole high action stupid Roman aesthetic I saw

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>>54911131

>Shifter
Well. At least I know you're not one of my players.

Though I do have a lot of these problems that you list here in my own campaign, and I'm going to adjust accordingly. I realized I haven't been playing up the discrimination/exclusion angle enough, and the environment/security, while out to kill them, still doesn't play hardball enough (they need to start shooting first)

Even if it doesn't help your own campaign, thanks for the realization, anon.

>>54911208
Fine except for the story.

>>54911220
Meanwhile, in Africa....

>your average native african is dressed in a tire, handed down among the family
>Humanis is both handing out jobs and burning down ork villages
>orks are selling each other into slavery
>Christian priests pushing the "metas are soulless" agenda are around
>some confederate asshole is running the gun trade
>no one likes the annoying elf girl
>a manlet will never recover
>Mages get geeked first

>>54911220
I'm actually glad that i could help a group of player with that.

Alsi i think it's important that things aren't deliberately opressiv. I think it's part of a punk group to see the sytem that opresses while the rest of the worl seems to think that that is the way things just are or should even be.

Of course the live in the barrens is hard, but if the whole family sticks together with their soy farm, then maybe in 2-3 years we can afford a new room for the kids to sleep in. So basically i think a good part of cyberpunk comes from other people not looking past their own plate and the Punks , treying, to rebell against the system.

>>54911272
I'm not quite sure if you are tealking about shadowrun and that make me worried.

also
>no one likes the annoying elf girl
>a manlet will never recover
que ?

>>54911382
>then maybe in 2-3 years we can afford a new room for the kids to sleep in
unless the cops kill them for unlawful possession of crops
or unless they are killed by a sudden devilrat infestation
or unless they suddenly get sick and are too poor to afford medicine
or unless some go-gangers drive by and kill them and take their stuff

>>54911434
If a devilrat kills your child, you raised them wrong.

>>54911444
>If a devilrat kills your child, you raised them wrong.
I'm not saying that they kill the children
I'm saying they kill the whole family
Devilrat swarms are serious business

>>54911434
Yeah that's more or less a given.
But i like my punk when the world has a "that's the way it is" mentaliy.

Let's try to see it from the other side. Does anybody, besides 2XL who is insufferable, think that your manager wakes up in the morning, twirls his evil mustache and thinks to himself "How will i opress the trogs today ?"
Those guys also only want to live their lives, getting food on the table, maybe a third car, but you need one of those, how else would you keep face towards your manager friend ? So today he will work a few hours extra and sort the work efficiency papers to sort out workers who could be replaced by more energetic ones, after all it's just simple labour and experience won't help with that.

>>54911208
Mechanics are tolerable, fuck all enemy variety though.
>>54911090
Lofwyr did that because all those drakes would have been beholden to Dunklezahn

>>54910838
Who gets the money doesn't really make a difference to me as long as it's cheap. And in the end I got no answer, will need to repost the question probably.

>>54911434
As if Any corp would be bothered enoguh by some bushes in the barrens to set foot in it.
That's what neighbours, cummunity hunting teams and street scum runners are for.
Well, i don't got one for that, guess that's life.
Pretty sure they would try to hide in some sort of secret basement or run away through some hobo passage ways and let the gangers take what they want.

>>54911635
>Pretty sure they would try to hide in some sort of secret basement or run away through some hobo passage ways and let the gangers take what they want.
Which would leave them with nothing, since breaking stuff is fun, and fun is what gangers really want
>Well, i don't got one for that, guess that's life.
More like death around the corner
>As if Any corp would be bothered enoguh by some bushes in the barrens to set foot in it.
can't have them be independent from our products

>>54911694
Okay I get it you like your punk retarded and edgy. Good 5e is just for you.

>>54911836
>punk
>not generally retarded and edgy

>>54911131
I am saving this post for purposes of running my campaign even better. Some of these things I dealt with pretty well in my last campaign but some of them just kinda got lost in trying to prep missions. Sometimes the fluff is more important.

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>>54910774
Our hero.

Okay so the Black Tide hitting europe is retarded and I want to find something else of similar large proportions to do a fuckerydoodle around the year of chaos. Hitting the eco friendly countries in northern Europe (in comparison to the rest of the world) with toxic sludge because of "all their pollution" just don't make sense to me. Suggestions?

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Why would a rigger ever hot sim into his vehicle? I feel like thats just asking to be killed. I was interested in trying to make a rigger that prefers to be hot simmed into whatever he is rigging but.. why do it? Seems needlessly dangerous for such a slight bonus. Unless I am missing something.

Like what if you hot sim into a drone and it just gets fucked blown the fuck out? Then what?

>>54913723
You get extra Initiative dice.

Also, between Biofeedback Filter, Firewall, and Willpower, you take only a fraction of what your vehicle takes, if anything.

>>54913775

is that extra init die worth though? Like how much is one init die worth in terms of value.

Also, to the people who have played online shadow run.. what is it like? I have actually never played a session at all. My friends are into this kind of shit. To them, orks are just LOTR orcs and it seems alien to them to imagine orcs shooting guns and sniper rifles and shit.

>>54913723
Like >>54913775 said the extra initative is pretty nice. Plus you get three extra dice (two from hot-sim, one from jumped in rigging in hot-sim possibly) to most of your actions.

And it's half damage as bio-feedback, which you resist normally. So even if a drone's getting scrapped in one attack that's probably not much more than six P of which you're likely to soak most, and the same with the dumpshock when that happens.

>>54913873
Depending on your build, that one die can be an extra Interrupt (not too useful overall but can be nice) to another full turn which is almost always pretty big.

And then add the rig dice bonuses, limit bonuses, and Vehicle Test threshold reduction and you're far better jumped in than just the initiative.

>>54913873
Short answer? Yes. It's all worth it. You're at very little actual risk from the Biofeedback.

>>54913723
Hey I have a question about rigging while jumped in - can you do rigging without a wireless connection via a DNI/control rig?

Like, say my rigger doesn't want to have to deal with Spiders hacking him in the middle of a car chase, and hooks directly into car, but keeps the vehicle disconnected from the matrix. Do they get an initiative bonus from that? The rulebook only talks about coldsim/hotsim, not off-the-matrix rigging.