So how do you fit monks into different cultural archetypes beyond

>>54849945
I made a tribal warrior kensei who specializes in maul, blowgun and whip. He focueses on heavy damage with maul+flurry of blows, with the blowgun to apply poisons from range and the whip because I couldn't really think of anything else that might apply.

All a monk is is a spiritual warrior who focuses mainly on unarmed combat and "peasant" weapons. Every culture has these and, with archetypes, you can expand even further. So, to answer your question; use your imagination.

>>54849945

Mine are basically Greco-Roman scholars and philosophers who are also pugalist because they believe in training the mind as well as the body.

They typically serve as tutors to wealthy sons and daughters looking to get into various positions within the Empire so it's not unusual that some Imperial official, though might work from a desk, could go toe to toe with some would be adventurer

There are unarmed fighting styles all over the world, OP.
Everyone--every culture, every place--had their own twist on "murder dude with hands."

For classic medieval fantasy style, you only need to describe it a bit differently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvkPLvoH1vI

Flagellants

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>>54850116

This is the thing I will never understand about the groupthink against being weeaboo. Any warrior would know how to fight in a number of ways whether it's stabbing a nigger with a sword or punching him to death. Wrestling, Boxing, and pugalisim isn't some exclusive trait of asia and having a knight who can brawl isn't going to make people think you love anime even though they are posting on a Tibetan Shadow Puppet board.

>>54850176
Basically this. People imagine kung fu and shit when you say "martial arts" but "martial arts" also includes chivalric jousting and swordsmanship and cane-dueling and boxing.

"Martial arts" just means "the arts of martial combat," not "shanghai hong kong egg fu yong fortune cookie always wrong"

That shit's gotta stop, because a disarmed knight punching a dude in the face with his plate mail glove is fucking awesome.

>>54850209

This is an example that comes out of 40k but I think my most memorable scene was in the Gaunt's Ghost book when one of the Tanith commanders was in brawl with a commander from another IG regiment (can't remember names, sorry) they talked about how one of the commanders was a champion boxer during his academy days and how the Tanith Dude was a fucking wrestler.

But hey, can't ruin the idea that western warriors of any sort or even modern day soldiers and fighters would sully their reputation by learning silly things like how to punch and kick and throw people.

>>54850245
Shit, that's fucking cool. And let's not forget about pankration, the ancient Greek art of weaponized gay sex: http://ancientolympics.arts.kuleuven.be/eng/TC007cEN.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

Honestly, I really wish more people would go "yeah this guy used to box" about characters who use guns in fiction. It's a nice trait to be well-rounded as a person.

>>54850300

I blame DND for this because they made "punching" the eclusive realm of the monk but then they also made the whole perfection of body and mind thing exclusive to monks as well.

Frankly, there's no good reason why a fighter can't go from tearing assholes with his sword and when it breaks he throws it away and contines to redecorate colons with his fists if need be.

>>54850371
D&D is also under the opinion that people like Cu Chulainn are anime characters and that any fighter who can do anything remarkable like turn into some kind of thrashing wolf-beast in a spasm of fury and murder a small army is unrealistic and bad.

I fucking love bare-knuckle brawler character concepts. The movie Snatch stands out here. If you haven't seen it, go watch it, it's great.

>>54850451
Cu Chulainn IS an anime character thanks to Fate.

>>54850451
>>54850465
Cu Chulainn was pretty anime before anime was

>super powered evil side
>Fight autist
>harem protagonist

>>54850497

Don't forget Beowulf. What sort of weabo faggot wrestles a monster to death?

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>>54849945
like so

>>54849945
I usually have it in my !Asia regions but also in areas controled by the churches of light where weapons aren't allowed to be used for religious reasons but still needed to defend themselves so learning how to fight with their hands came naturally.

>>54850497
>>54850515
And Odysseus. How could a single FIGHTER beat a whole ARMY with a lel so epic strategy about a wooden horse, were the Trojans just retarded? So inconsistent. And that's not even talking about how his muh waifu purity resisted all those hot women throwing themselves out him.

>>54849945
the problem of course is that Monks, at least in D&D, function off of the conceit of a mystic inner power that doesn't quite entirely work. Some editions have tried to make them psionics to mixed success. In my opinion, as a core class, Monks should be able to derive their abilities from everything from persistant training and expertise, to divine power, to magic. Just turned inwards to make them superhuman.

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Monks are more snowflakes than Gunslingers.

>>54850574
Don't forget the Bow that only he could string and draw

>>54849945
>/fit/ based Monks
>Former farmer who learned to defend his own land
>Survivalist "Law of the Jungle" type that thinks Druids are wimps
>Ex-slaves who learned to kill with their hands since it was all they had
>Foppish honor-obsessed monks who willingly fight at a "disadvantage"

>>54850590
>>54850590

Imagine how vastly different the entire game would be if they didn't shoehorn the eastern window dressing with Ki. I mean, even in 5th edition they strait up say what the monk does is just another form of magic the same as wizards. If you just call it something that doesn't immediately trigger westaboos into autistic spasms then the idea of a knight who's so badass he can cut magical creatures because of his inner power instead of some magic sword the faggot wizard had to make for him (which he could still use, but still).

>>54850599
That said, his servent, who was a badass himself it seems, came really fucking close to doing it.

>>54850656
>>Ex-slaves who learned to kill with their hands since it was all they had
Well this is legitimately the origin of at least one martial art, Capoeira, which was developed to look like dancing so they could practice without anyone realizing they were training. Once masters got wise they outlawed it.

>>54850687
My favorite monk was a monk of Azuth who tattooed magical runes and spells to his body, and travelled to various locales strong with ambient magical energy or ley intersections to draw power into them. Training his body was just a way to make himself vigorous to withstand the ju-ju he was pulling in.

He also completely disregarded bitches and wanted to become one with the weave itself.

>>54850689
But now it's a weeaboo thing thanks to Death Note

>>54850711

>Desire to know more intensifies

I didn't realize this was a thing in Death Note.

>LUCHA
>LIBRE

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>>54850749

>>54850724
L (the detective teenager) uses it when he fights. Which is very rare because that would take time away from everybody trying to outplan each other

>>54850711
Capoeira was also in Tenjo Tenge

Doesn't make it weeb.

>>54849945
>So how do you fit monks into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !asian cultures?

Knights who train in mystical arts.

Guardsman order under special training against supernatural beings.

It's the role of the monks in society that's important.
Since they are based on martial artists their role is going to have to do with military, security forces, espionage etc..

Where are their arts taught?

>In not!Greece it's at the temple squares.
>In not!Rome it's the Arena and most Gladiators are monks.
>In not!Renaissance Italy it's Church monasteries and private merecenary companies.
>In not!MezoAmerica it's warrior clans out hunting for human sacrifices and slaves.
>In not!Russia it's roaming martial artists gifted by god or the communist party depending on the time period. Bonus points for Putin refferences.
>In the not!Wild West it's roaming Cowboys and Chink immigrants.
>In not!England it's every noble and their butler.
>In not!India it's a few of the REAL gurus.
>In not!Arabia it's the local organisation of thieves.

>>54850528
Christian monks used to have a martial tradition as well.
Many were required to know how to fight with a staff, mace or barehanded.

>>54849945
Ah that Nen Master fanart. Brings back memories.

>>54849945
I just combine Buddhist monk with Western monastic monks. They do the things monastic orders did like copying books, brewing beer and wine but also training their bodies and minds to have a closer relationship with their God, Immortal, Devil Patron. What have you. Most traveling proselytizers are Monks ranging from levels 1 to 3 in my games.

ANGRY PUNCHING MEN

>>54851541
Like so - https://youtu.be/VYvqOfrs6CA

>>54849945

the pugilist is i think by now the classic approach to having the western version of a monk.

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>>54850209
>a disarmed knight punching a dude in the face with his plate mail glove is fucking awesome.
hexen's fighter had that, even if it was basically just doom's brass knuckles

hexen was pretty fuckin sweet

don't fluff your world's monks as weeaboo filth. I play a tetori monk in PF which equates to grapple monk. he's a pirate whose only claim to being "lawful" is he is perfecting the art of wrestling in hopes to one day emulate is childhood hero/ demi god LOS TIBURON SHARK OF THE LAND MASKED WRESTLER (yes I shamelessly copied it from the story about it. other than that very piratey, ie impulsive, stubborn, a general greedy whoremonger. note the DM is being very slack with the alignment system as I skirt it at almost all points in time. in my own world monks range from stereotypical monks all the way to a wide range of non standard concepts.

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>>54850209

GURPS martial arts covers this pretty well. Knight training covers armed and unarmed combat, and grappling.

>>54850928

The line between militant chivalric orders and monastic orders was very blurry. Many people that took a monk's vows were in fact knights, and the monastic vows and virtues were a large part of the chivlric ideal.

>>54849945
>T H I C C monk girls
I knew I wanted this, I had just forgotten it.

>>54849945
Three words for you:
Zatoichi
Blind Fury

I once had a Norse Inspired monk

Dudes name was Gideon which in Hebrew translates to hewer sorta. He was a lumberjack who wrastled bears, drank good mead, loved to tussle, but was comfy in his cabin and didn't want no trable

Shit was cash

Simple, drunken boxer.

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fnen a shit

>>54849945
Same calculators fit in our society

>>54853650
yeah, everyone knows f launcher was the best

>>54849945
Couple of questions
What part of "monks"? the martial art one? martial arts aren't an Asian only thing. The zen mentality, searching for mind and body perfection? discipline isn't an Asian only thing

Basically, OP, the point everyone is trying to make is that limiting monks to asian kung fu is like limiting barbarians to specific fringe tribes.
Pigeonholing classes because they have an evocative name is a failure of creativity, so don't do it.

>>54852449

>Weeaboo filth

A lesser concern of mine then people who fear anything vaguely asian at all.

>>54849945
I always make them the Thomas Covenant Bloodguard in everything but name.

>>54850574
Uh, what? He has 3 children with Circe
http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Ca-Cr/Circe.html

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>>54849945
>ywn never play a monk grizzled by hard labour
>ywn never suprise the party with your insight to writing, architecture and winemaking
>ywn never have to fight hand in hand with marauders from beyond the sea
>ywn never take part in clerical intrigue and uncover corrupt clergymen

R. A. Salvatore's Demon Wars Saga is pretty good inspiration for monks, even if they lean more on wizardry

>>54855487

Well considering 5th edition monks literally are muscle wizards ( just not very good ones) it's more than possible.

>>54852449
The idea that monks have to be lawful is fucking retarded anyways

>>54849945

Monks don't even have to be religious in nature. you could have them just have a moral code rooted in belief in the potential of humanity.

you could play a taxi driver who majored in Philosophy in College and took parkour as a way to keep in shape as a Monk.

a professional kickboxer who gives their fight money to charity/orphanages could be a Monk.

even a bookstore owner who enjoys trading stories/books/scrolls from faraway lands and learns poems and self-defense from their acquired trove.

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>>54849945

>>54850711
>Thanks to Death Note

Nigger, nippies have had their hands on everything, every fucking thing, since before Takeshi Obata picked up a crayon.

But just because nips borrow shit from everywhere, does not mean that something is Weeaboo.

Are you going to argue that boxing, capoeira, and savate are weeaboo since we have Hajime no Ipo and Hitmonlee/champ/top?

Is Mike Tyson weeaboo since he has a pokemon named after him, and was in an ip man film?

>>54855487
Read up on the Golden Monk.
A chatolic monk who went full 007 during and after WW2.

>>54855537
>Have to dump str
>Deal laughable damage
>Meh CA and HPs not suitable for a frontliner
>Muscle wizard
Pffffhahahahahaha

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>>54852449
>weeaboo filth
you are worse than the people you are condemning

just make monks buddhist ikko ikki priests or christian philosophers instead of the wuxia tier fist fighters they are initially portrayed as

>>54850766
Man it would be so satisfying to ruin someone's day with a BIG WHORE

I like to do D&D monks as, culturally, completely standard western christian monks to fit with the overall medieval theme. They spend their days getting up early and brewing beer and copying manuscripts interspersed with a lot of prayer and maybe singing hymns in four part harmony.

But at the same time they're ready to mobilize at any moment as the army of the lord and by god's grace and careful practice are prepared to storm a fortress and take out armored knights while armed with nothing better than sticks.

Having them as wrestlers could be fun.
>in peacetime, the order likes to let citizens see their ritualized fights
>a fair amount of them are skilled in perform and charisma
>tfw you see not!Shakespeare becoming a rising star by written word and wrassling

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Like this

>>54859945
This. My monks are literate, copying manuscripts, working with the clergy. I shift the weapons from asian to more western in flavor. Club, light mace, the like,

I considered using "Ascetic alchemists whose bodies become stronger and stronger as they punch more and more magical things and get their blood on their skin".

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>>54849945
Western wrestler franciscan-style monks.

A monastic order of wrestlers, they're all extremely buff and they drink fucktons of wine.

See this skull right here? Squeezed a bandit's head so hard with my leg lock that it just popped out.

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>>54860645
>A monastic order of wrestlers, they're all extremely buff and they drink fucktons of wine.

A whole Monastery of Kevin Nash's

>>54850528

While it makes perfect sense, the panel 4-5 spot makes me laugh.
>Got your gun!
>Shooting you in the ass now

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>>54851589
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqlIUPBeoKo I have no idea if the game is good or not.

>>54849945
House rule, Improved Unarmed Strike is a free class feat for any class with full base attack bonus.

>>54850116
>>54850176
>>54850209
If we're talking about the D&D monk class, it's a lot more than just "unarmed fighter" in terms of game mechanics.
Not every high-level unarmed fighter can teleport, for example.

>>54849945
Give them staves, go full friar tuck.

Just use the Christian ascetic tradition more often
Stylites, for example, were hardcore

>>54850711
I only know it because of Archer and Armstrong

>>54855537
>>54857820
Figher's should get to be muscle wizards

It just isn't fair.

>>54849945
>So how do you fit bards and druids into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !celtic cultures?
>So how do you fit paladins into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !carolingian cultures?
>So how do you fit barbarians into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical not-!greek cultures?
>So how do you fit clerics into different cultural archetypes beyond the typical !abrahamic cultures?
Why aren't there threads like these?

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>>54855487
Source for the image?

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>>54864401
Because most people can find a way to get around those on their own, and those influences aren't explicitly encouraged by the splatbook

>>54864436
>clerics aren't influenced by abrahamic religion
>druids aren't influenced by celtic culture
>paladins aren't influenced by medieval chivalry
Yeah, sure.

>>54850209

I too enjoy the Siamese cat in the Aristocats.

>>54849945
Pugilist. A general experienced fighter. Doesn't matter the specific fluff of the style they use, just that the end results are increasingly efficient as their skill level increases. Sure on one hand there's an increase in damage output, but that's also what weapons are for. The key is being well versed enough as a fighter to be familiar with and identify attacks in time to avoid them with marginally more effectiveness than your run of the mill NPC, and to exploit openings to gain extra attack opportunities, either as combos or extra reflexive strikes. You can be a wushu master, a karate black belt, a grecoroman wrestler, a bar brawler, or a feral wildman, but the bottomline effectiveness is all the same.

>>54864408
Father Mozgus from the Conviction arc of Berserk.
http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Mozgus

>>54864208
>he hasn't read ye olde fencing manuals
nothin personnel kids

>>54864730
Tell me why a pugilist would eventually end up immune to poison and aging.

>>54864394
Stop playing D&D.

Start playing Burning Wheel, Song of Swords, or Mutants and Masterminds.

>>54849945
She's cute. Are there a lot of female "monks"?

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>>54860645
>The Bible states "Thou Shallt not Kill", so I just rough up my enemies until they're in wheelchairs

>>54864401
Because this board operates on a strict western/eastern cultural split and some people really don't like any mention of eastern culture in their games. You don't see people saying "none of that greek shit at my table"

>>54853281
Wasn't there a guy in the Bible who got into a wrestling match with an angel and got made a saint because God was so impressed by his wrestling skills?

>>54867652
Israel is named after that guy.
I think it was in a dream though

>>54849945
I make them Benedictine-style Monks who have a tradition of martial discipline due to being commonly in monasteries away from help and needing to be responsible for their own self-defence.

>>54867652
>>54867652
Jacob I believe

>>54849945
She's cute. Are there very many female monks? I mean I guess Sororitas count, but I can't think of many others.


>>54851553
That movie was nuts.

>>54857586
>and was in an Ip Man film?
That was a great scene.

Played in a old West campaign as a dapper gentleman who knew barritsu.

>>54865106
He is too manly to be struck down by weak tricks like poison, and he cannot die until he is defeated fairly.

>>54867652
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGWWpyFGFU

God is such a jobber

>>54868516
As a man masters himself, so too does he master his destiny.
He's thrown down the gauntlet to Fate itself, daring it to kill him in honorable single combat.

Just a guy who has Goldie and Rogan commentating his every action. Somehow, this makes him competent at fighting.

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>>54864778

>>54850176
>>54850209
>>54850116
Nobody's that only one culture invented unarmed martial arts. The issue with D&D monks is the conceit that unarmed martial arts is just as good as armed martial arts when both options are equally available. That conceit purely belongs to Chinese pop culture.

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Corporal punishment addicted teacher/priest/cleric

>"Education and knowledge reside in my knucles, and I'm gonna make sure my students get some through their thick skulls"

>>54867652
>Androgynous angel boy gets full-nelsoned
Jacob was truly ahead of his time.

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>>54850209

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>>54870436

>In a fantasy setting where you can gain the ability to resist aging and become a native outsider through your own efforts and fight all manner of supernatural beings and travel to different dimensions
>Must abide by the idea that a sword is better than a fist

It's cancer like you that keeps insisting DnD be some kind of Medievel European simulator rather than a pulp fantasy setting that it actually is.

>>54850209
As a coach the whole "west has no true martial arts" bullehit pisses me off so much. We have a pugilist and wrestling history that goes back to the Bronze Age, probably earlier.

>>54849945
>Thoros of Myr
>Muhammad, Ali Ibn Abi Talib, etc
>Jeanne of Arc
>Altair
>NG Solomon Kane
>Gabriel Belmont
>Neo

>>54870436
Are you retarded and this deluded?

>>54850098
>Mine are basically Greco-Roman scholars and philosophers who are also pugalist because they believe in training the mind as well as the body.
I like this.

>>54850558
>weapons aren't allowed to be used for religious reasons but still needed to defend themselves so learning how to fight with their hands came naturally.
THANK YOU.
Making a spear costs less and takes less time than training to fight without weapons, so anyone would go for that except if they had a reason not to. This actually determines a lot of things
I hate seeing characters learn how to fight with their fist when they could use weapons.

>>54867652
That was Jacob. The fight lasted 3 days and ended with Jacob pinning the angel. The angel begged and begged to be let go but Jacob refused to do so until the angel gave him a blessing for all his trouble. And so the angel gave him the name Israel which means "wrestles with God". The Jews would later take this as the name for their people and it would turn out to be an extremely appropriate name over the years.

>>54872443
The fact that having a sword is better than just having a fist transcends culture and geography. A sword is better than a fist in China, too.

>>54874257
So for the purposes of a fantasy role playiing game. Why should I adhere to the logic that swords are better than fists when I want to make a class about being an unarmed badass who can deflect arrows with his hands or punch boulders in half?

>>54874491
Because that mighty hero would be even better at deflecting arrows with a shield or splitting a boulder with a pickaxe.

Tools were invented for a reason, Anon. It's not just a cosmetic choice.

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>>54859945
Western monks would be far more likely to chant in unison. If there was any harmony at all, it would be very simple. You wouldn't be seeing four part hymns until at least the 17th century.

>>54851552
lel

>>54857656
will do, thanks

>>54874924
Once again. You are operating on the premise that weapons have to be inherently better than bare hands in a fictional setting. A guy who has trained his inner energy or honed his body to a granite finish through years of punching trees can forge their body into a weapon equal to that of steel.

Why try and make it so that fists are just weaker by default? A monk is a philosophical fighter, preferring to use their fists. Let them have their fun.

>>54864401
All of those things are in Europe.

Monks are China/Japan in flavor, which is just a teeny bit away from the rest of the classes' real-life cultural basis.

>>54873824
Cleric
How are those guys monks?
Paladin
Rogue
Another Rogue, or a DEX fighter
Fighter
Knows Kung Fu and other eastern martial arts.

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>not being a marauding river pirate who takes up the cloth in sanctuary under pain of death
>not seeing the light and devoting your soul utterly to G*d
>not kicking the shit out of armed bandits with your bare hands and converting them, too
>not kicking the shit out of your fellow monks with your bare words and humbling them, too

Y'all niggas even Desert Fathers?

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>>54877794
>not kicking the shit out of armed bandits with your bare hands and converting them, too
That's hilarious. I actually want to play a character like this now. Imagine this guy being a passenger on a ship when suddenly a pirate sail appears on the horizon.
>"Bring us closer! I want to teach them about the love and mercy of Christ... WITH MY FISTS"

>>54876868
>A guy who has trained his inner energy or honed his body to a granite finish through years of punching trees can forge their body into a weapon equal to that of stee
>takes years to achieve same result
>equal
maybe in strength, not in anything else. No one would bother developping such an art when forging a spear is faster and safer
UNLESS they have a very good reason to.

>>54849945

By dropping the 'monastic order' bit and just making them super strong motherfuckers in the vein of Beowulf.

> enemy commander has a right hand man who dressed in adamantine fullplate so heavy most people can't even carry it.
> he carries no sword, his armor just has two massive gauntlets that he uses to bludgeon people to death at close range
> Thankfully, his armor slows him down so he isn't that fast
> when you fight him for the inevitable boss fight, your attacks are constantly describes as just utterly failing to get through his armor and hurt him... until you finally do
> having judged you to be worthy opponents, he rips off the armor mid fight and fights you basically naked
> he's actually stronger without the armor weighing him down, and much faster

>>54877929
> >"Bring us closer! I want to teach them about the love and mercy of Christ... WITH MY FISTS"

Judo christians

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>>54878140
>He didn't wear the armor to protect him from you
>He wore the armor to protect you from him

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>>54878153
Are we bringing back Muscular Christianity?

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>>54878140
>>54878161

Sounds familiar, can't put my finger on it though.

>>54878111
>No one would bother developping such an art when forging a spear is faster and safer
And yet there are real life martial arts that have thousand year histories devoted to studying animal movements and replicating them in human form.

Your imagination is lacking if all you can see is weapon superiority in a setting where those rules don't have to be absolute. Of course using a spear is easier, but then you have that one guy who devoted his whole life to grappling bears and standing under waterfalls.

>>54878111

Here's your (you) good job trolling by the way

>>54878216
>>54878161
>>54878140
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xL4SY1TJgQ

>>54878140

Goku had that as a gimmick before transformations became a thing.

>>54878235

.... And being the defender of Russia's skies?

>>54878235
>And yet there are real life martial arts that have thousand year histories devoted to studying animal movements and replicating them in human form.
the users of which would be utterly destroyed by a bunch of untrained retards with spears and bows
Look I'm not saying people who grapple bears and do that meditation thing under waterfalls aren't strong. But a single arrow is enough to break that body the spent so many years honing and training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

>>54878416
Are we using hollywood films as arguments now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVm965-lHH8#t=2m

Monks were a mistake, a more general Martial Artist class would have been perfect to cover different varieties of unarmed combat. Ki bullshit could be easily covered with a feat tree or two, likewise for specialization in wrestling, kickboxing, ect.

The same is true for Rangers, Barbarians, Druids,and every other class that covers so few different character concepts.

>>54878480
If a class should be so broad and ill-defines, what's the point of using classes at all?
Might as well play Gurps or Amber Diceless while you're at it

>>54876868
Even a fictional setting needs some internal logic. If tools don't do anything in a particular world, they should not exist in that world.

>>54878520

No one said they didn't. Not everyone in the setting can smash mountains with their barehands the same way not everyone can cut the moon in half with their sword.

You're either so autistic that it's warping reality or you are trolling.

>>54878507
Classes can still be useful for covering general character archetypes. I just don't like when there are incredibly specialized classes like Monk or Ranger that can only fit a half dozen character concepts.

>>54863752
it is

>>54850098
Literally stealing this. Hope you don't mind

>>54878557
That guy who has trained himself to have incredible strength would still be better with a weapon than without one. Simple leverage.

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>>54878880
What if he is the weapon?

>>54850209

Huehuehue, day's a hot one.

>>54878922
He's strong enough to fuck someone up when he punches them. Nobody's arguing that. But regardless of how strong he is, leverage would make him effectively stronger, not to mention increasing his reach. How do you not get that?

>>54849945

By being self-believing or disciplining (depending on the evil/good axis) Nietzcheans in a world where belief does actually create magic (see:clerics), and thus are able to do supernatural things but only in relation to themselves.

>>54878978
But anon he was developed to BE the leverage. He is the ultimate weapon in and of himself, tacking another weapon onto him would only dilute his purity of weapon.

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>>54878922
>>54879008
Ultimately, no matter what you do, some strong dude with a weapon is more effective than some strong dude without weapons.
>>54878978's point is attached, since you guys seem to have trouble with it.

>>54879032
But it's a strong dude who IS a weapon.
Giving him another weapon is like trying to use a dire-flail, it sounds cool on paper but it's counter-productive.

>>54879032
>some strong dude with a weapon is more effective than some strong dude without weapons.
Let me just append "in the real world" to the end of every sentence you write from here on out, since you seem to have trouble distinguishing from reality and fantasy.

>>54864473
Not them, but a lot of people on this board are legitimately cannot into anything Asian, and are uncomfortable doing it besides.

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>>54879050
>But it's a strong dude who IS a weapon.

>>54879053
Suspension of belief only goes so far, you know? I can do it for dragons, I can do it for a guy getting a couple lucky hits in on the dragon, but I can't get by a dude punching said dragon and being equally effective.

Get what I mean?

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Do people in this thread not understand that the whole point of a Monk class is to create a martial class that has limited weapons proficiencies that can perform just as well as say a fighter or a paladin class that has a wider range of weapons to draw on? Who cares of a strong guy with the sword is better than a guy without a sword, the whole point is to be a guy who's fists are sharp as blades and as tough as a mace. Somebody has got to be trolling in this discussion here.

>>54879162

No, because I don't speak autism

>>54879162
>I can do it for dragons, I can do it for a guy getting a couple lucky hits in on the dragon

How can you?
How is a tiny ant poking a dragon with a thumbtack anymore believable than a tiny ant punching the dragon?
That's ridiculous, they're both equally stupid.

>>54879162
I get that you have some autistic bias against punchmasters. The whole reason monks are a thing is because they aren't just Mike Tyson, they're Mike Tyson with a strong enough spirit to evoke mystical, unnatural power.

Which is why I made >>54865106, by the way. >>54868516 works well enough as alt-fluff, far as I'm concerned.

>>54879162
A high-level monk is basically an outsider to a god. Can you grok this now?

>>54879370
B-but gods need leverage or they'll have difficulty applying work to mass

>>54849945
Depends. What specific problem(s) are you experiencing / trying to avoid?

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>>54879138
IIRC it's some weird conceptual thing where he literally counts as a sword rather than a human. He has all the abilities of "the world's best sword", like being able to cut through anything by touching it, so fighting with a normal weapon would just make him weaker.

So how would you convert a training sequence like this into a !Eastern context? Guy just goes into the woods and keeps training his body past the upper limits for a decade and comes down better than any fighter before him.

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>>54879858
Fuck me forgot my pic

>>54849945

Monks are like clerics, but they don't give a shit about gods.Well, they don't think they're worth worshipping that much - they might respect them dearly but they don't think they're close to nirvana and generally think being too poweful is a bad idea.

They actually ARE about illumination, and yes, illumination doesn't come just from the mind, the body or the soul. Neither just from passive compassion.

A monk would say to a wizard that if he thinks a book is truth, he would've become a pen already. To a cleric, that if gods would be truth, gods would be false. To a paladin, that if justice needs to be chosen, he can't be just - do you choose yourself? To a druid, that if you don't have a form, you are a form. To a sorcerer/witch, that if power is blood, he should bleed it out of his veins - if he can't, that's no power at all.

To a bard, to stop checking out his/her bum, but that's a lesson for another day, disciple.

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>>54879874

>Netero

My nigga

Even if you don't include the obvious allusions to Buddhism you can just have a guy who goes into the woods and goes "I'm not leaving until I achieve perfection."

A would be knight who goes into the woods, comes out in rags and tatters and is undefeated in all forms of combat both armed and unarmed. Point being, he pushed his body and mind to a level most people could never comprehend and achieved power.

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>>54849945
I'm playing a frog monk in my next campaign and I'm having trouble thinking of backstories. The setting is big city not-france so I was thinking of playing up the outsider angle but I'm open to suggestions.

Any good monk backstory ideas?

>>54880292

How are frogmen in your setting? Common?

>>54880328
DM's still working on the setting but no, just isolated tribes.

>>54880292
>The setting is big city not-france
>frog
This was the first thing that went through my mind when reading your post. http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QCvQFiTQn7

>>54880292
If he were a turtle monk instead, I'd suggest some kind of mutation.

>>54879858
>>54879874
It already is !Eastern.

>>54880372

Well, you have the usual shit. Isolated village of hated minority, a career in which he can break his shackles, yadda yadda.

Where do frogmen live? In real world france the biggest marshes are on the Rhone, so... I dunno? Make him a boasting guy from not!Marseille that tries to stay cool like he should? A gypsy-like tribe travelling along the river delta?

>I realize this sounds /pol/ bait but southeastern France is a little like the West of France

>and didn't catch the frog/France thing. Have his pal with which he has a love/hate relationship be a bulldog with a english accent

>>54880522
>Have his pal with which he has a love/hate relationship be a bulldog with a english accent
best idea

>>54880817
>>54880817

I wanted that to be a german but honestly dunno what is the german animal stereotype.

No, it's not the german sheperd.

>>54880817

Wait, if this is 1700s France the REAL pal should be a bald eagle.

>I think that shit was crystallized as a symbol the 1800s but who care

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The monk class being "weboo" only realy came about in third eddition when they got flurry a blows. Before then in TSR days it was a weird priest thief hybrid DPS glass cannon.

They may been trying to Friar tuck from Robin Hood but I'm not sure what if any design intent they had behind it if at all. So you've got more of a blank slate to use than you think.

Personally I like them being Psions like in 4e. It's only because that never really fit in the game either so might as well combine them.

>>54881025
>The monk class being "weboo" only realy came about in third eddition when they got flurry a blows.

They'd had Quivering Palm in their very first iteration for Blackmoor, and the weaboory was further made explicit when they were revamped for Oriental Adventures

>>54849945
I had a guy play a monk-esque class who was a circus boxer who would fight anything thrown in the ring with him for a bet. Eventually punched out:
-A werewolf
-A Dire Crocodile
-Seven Undead At Once
-The Royal Wizard (it was a fair and honorable fight, even if the wizard was a cheating bastard of a transmutationist).

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>>54881354
>Quivering Palm in their very first iteration

Yeah not the iconically Weboo furry of blows.

Quivering Palm isn't weeboo. Fist of Norstar haven't been released yet so it doesn't count.

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>A prominent noble's youngest son has been used as a diplomatic bargaining chip since childhood, having been held hostage to secure alliances, non-aggression pacts et cetera
>Due to this, he ended up becoming a polyglot and a fine diplomat upon adulthood
>Diplomacy is risky business, yet it's not exactly polite to show up armed to the death when you try to come across as friendly and desiring peace
>As such he's been assigned a bodyguard: a plucky tomboy who prefers to fight unarmed
>She keeps the prince safe from ambushes, traps and betrayal
>But who keeps him safe from her?
>Tags: femdom, defloration, muscular female, leglock, nakadashi, handholding

>>54849945
I can't help but always picture monks as Friar Tuck types that are surprisingly effective despite their demure/rotund appearance.

>>54881691

I don't get this obession with friar tuck allusions. I mean i get it because he's a "monk" and it's good way to make weeaboos pissy (hell even the fucking art in Elderscrolls has a friar tuck looking dude for the unarmed skill)

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>>54881722
I think it's just a cultural association with European monastic visuals, Friar Tuck being the most iconic/recognizable character to fit such a schema.

Like, it's easier to say "he looks like friar tuck" than to say "he's an overweight white guy in a hooded brown robe tied with a rope, sandals, and a haircut that's bald on top and has a ring of hair around the back like a cul-de-sac ala Hulk Hogan but with more volume."

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>>54881788
>Like, it's easier to say "he looks like friar tuck" than to say "he's an overweight white guy in a hooded brown robe tied with a rope, sandals, and a haircut that's bald on top and has a ring of hair around the back like a cul-de-sac ala Hulk Hogan but with more volume."
What about "He's a portly looking man who's built like a bear, wears a very simple robe and sports a tonsure"?

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>>54881833
Well, yeah, but then I don't get to be a longwinded schmuck and reference the Hulkster.

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>>54881628
>Quivering Palm isn't weeboo.

Quivering Palm, Death Touch, Dim Mak et cetera had been a kung fu meme in America since the '60s ya dingus, some gossip rags even unironically posited that Bruce Lee had died to one.

>>54882038
not that anon but kung fu isn't weeaboo. you don't know what weeaboo means.

>>54882051
Oh, fuck off. You can't go photoshoping Weeaboo Fightan Magic onto kung fu inspired supplements and then in the next breath tell me kung fu isn't weeaboo.
We all know the term has devolved and broaded far beyond the original wapanese wordfilter many years ago.

>>54881628
It still amuses me that I used this exact setup for a PC before I knew this character existed.

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>>54849945

Ancient Greek athlete?

They invented hardcore training.

>>54857333
wow, nobody else thinks Monks don't have to be affiliated with religion?

the lack of imagination is -staggering-.

>>54882359
But monks don't have to be associated with religion. Hell monks don't even have to be associated with monks.

>>54882684

Something I realize is when you watch kung fu movies it's not even that every character is an example of a "monk" only that unarmed fighting and fighting with weapons goes hand and hand is not weird in the same way westabos consider that knights or whatever never had to punch a dude out when their sword wasn't handy

>>54882972
>Something I realize is when you watch kung fu movies it's not even that every character is an example of a "monk" only that unarmed fighting and fighting with weapons goes hand and hand

Hell even the monk class got unrestricted weapon proficiencies for the most part.

Well apart from 3rd where they won't even proficient in unarmed strikes.

>>54881833
Because it's possible to fit that description and not look like friar tuck. Tuck is an iconic look.

>>54872042
I thought that fugging cute bois was against the rules?

4e Monk was best Monk. High mobile NADs striker. They had a clear niche in the game which they lack other edditions.

It was a little odd that they were psionic but it's was fairly close to Ki anyway.

>>54883620
That's Father Nelson'd, different move entirely.

>>54850916
Martial Arts were really popular in England up until the 20th century. Every large town had fencing halls, target ranges, etc.

>>54880941
Sausage dog.

>>54880941
The iron eagle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsadler

>>54849945
http://halruaa.wikia.com/wiki/House_Jordain

>>54849945
I like the idea of a monk character based on a Western monk, more of a jolly drunken scholar sort of character. Bonus points if he's also really good at fistfighting.

>>54881673
I want this.

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Slavic Monks focused on decapitation.

>>54880292
...do you have Battletoads?

>>54864401
i think people know a lot less about Europe then you give them credit for
and beyond that i think way less people then you think actually put a lot of medieval Europe inspired stuff into d&d games
i for instance have almost never thought of druids as celtic nor bards
i dont know who the Carolingian are (forgive me for being uncultured swine) but if they have anything to do with typically christian crusaders of old you got me that is what i relate paladins to
Barbarians as not greek? nah never came across
clerics as abrahamics? i can see where you would get that and i think we base a lot of the worship parts off of the abrhamic religions but nah d&d has its own gods

>>54882359

Aren't they by default going with an order and shit?

I can't really see a pugilist as a monk. I mean, it is a decent enough concept, akin to a gladiator, but it's a different.

Anyway I still can' really see the deal with monks being "unwestern".

Druids (as we play them) aren't, sorcerers (as opposed to wizards) aren't. Ok, they're... hrm, generic concepts (the heremit, they guy with magic in his blood) but they're not really "western classes" like the paladin or the barbarian.

And amusingly enough catholic monks doing shit in their monasteries, being literate and all. are already in DND. They're the wizards and their academies.

>btw, I'm not sure where the concept of a wizard academy came from. Surely it precedes by decades Potter, but in the hyborian age there wasn't anything like that

>>54887812

Similarly you could or should ask where the split between sorcerers and wizards came from especially since sorcerers don't really live up to the innate magic users because grandma spread her legs for gold dragon dick.

>>54887855

Actually, it's not a stupid question.

When did DND sorcers appear?

>>54887812
Druids are about as far west as you get, buddy. As for how we play them being different from how they were I'm pretty sure nobody knows.

>>54888620

But that is the point. Druids in DND are basically a name - it would be like saying paladins/knights are samurais.

>>54849945
In my setting, they're called Juggernauts.

Mana is used by all classes- Swordmasters use it to empower their strikes, Rogues use it to cast illusions and teleport, Mages and Clerics we all know, and Juggernauts use it to push their body beyond its limits.

The Lore is that there was a knight who was captured and tortured, didn't break, so they caught his lover and burned her in front of him. He went insane with rage, and swore an oath to the God of Revenge that he would kill everyone responsible with his bare hands. GoR heard his vow and decided to help him with that. Forty fist-holes in chests later, the first Juggernaut was born.

I tried to avoid the "dragonball z" kamehameha bullshit. A Juggernaut can focus their energy to punch someone- repeatedly- from a distance, but the gigantic fireballs are magus territory.

In keeping with the origin, they do have an ability called "They Will Pay" which allows you a damage bonus to an enemy who killed an ally- provided that kill wasn't due to deliberate negligence on yours or the ally's part.

Their restrictions are a strict diet and training regimen to make sure their manaflow works properly.

>>54888789
thats pretty gay

>>54887812
Wizard academies are easy to figure out. You start with the idea that magic users have to learn it by studying. There are three common ways that people learn. You learn by doing, which is established as a no-no because it's too complicated. You learn one on one in an apprentice relationship, or you learn in a classroom. And since it's established as a very complicated field of study, the classrooms have to be advanced, which means college equivalent or higher. And colleges have been around for a long time, so one dedicated to such a field isn't much of a stretch.
If you want to give people more credit than that, there's the Scholomance, which is the traditional place to learn magic, straight from Big L himself.

>>54887812
I would think wizard academies started with the idea of alchemist circles.

>>54888371
D&D Sorcerers appeared at the ass end of 2e as a way for wizards to innately learn spells without the DM picking and choosing which scrolls the wizard finds throughout their career, since otherwise it was an optional rule for Wizards to learn spells through leveling up.
3e took the concept and ran with it, and as a result they became wizards who naturally learn spells instead of having to find scrolls. Unfortunately, wizards also got that variant rule baked into their class by default with the change over to 3e, so it became a moot point.

Prior to the actual invention of the sorcerer class, I think the closest we got was FR referring to mages with innate links to magic, gaining powers either through blood or divine providence, and either not needing to or not being able to learn from books. Greenwood would later go on record saying if the sorc existed back in the early days of D&D there would be far more sorcs than wizards in the FR, which fits given how few places there are to actually learn wizardry/magic in the realms despite the high concentration of magic users.

>>54889507

No, I meant who was the first to have the idea.

>>54889813

Would make sense, but I don't know where in fantasy the magical college started (instead of secret master-apprentices duos).

I'm thinking of the Bene Gesserit oddly enough (not really wizards but you get my point).

Thanks for the info about sorcerers, I basically dunno shit about ADND.

>>54884057
England used to have the largest Fencing scene until recently when they decided to ban butter-knives...

I'm somewhat glad i got to grow up in eastern Europe and don't have to deal with that shit.

>>54889967
Huh? Fencing and HEMA are still big here.

>>54883627

Psionic shit already slapped halos on everyone, so whatever.

>>54854663
And so its the typicality of Dungeons and Dragons.

>>54854663
>Barbarian exists entirely to play Conan or Fafhrd
>Thief exists entirely to play Grey Mouser
>Ranger exists entirely to play Aragorn
>Monk exists entirely to play David Carradine

The classes exist entirely because one of Gygax's friends said to him that they want to play a specific character from a thing they just read.
The only exception is Fighting Man, because that was a disposable mook unit from their tactical games.

>>54892311

Not the guy you were responding to but now that we have the benefit of time personally I feel that the big three: Fighting Man, Thief, and Wizard would be enough. The other classes are essentially drawn out feats stretched to be classes.

Imagine how easy it could be if you just have fighting man and say you want to have some berserking skill so you take a class feat that basically gives your rage.

There are other ways it could be done but I think it serves to help make more customizable characters then pre-packaged classes. It's not like they were anymore balanced.

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>>54852449
>. I play a tetori monk in PF which equates to grapple monk. he's a pirate whose only claim to being "lawful" is he is perfecting the art of wrestling in hopes to one day emulate is childhood hero/ demi god LOS TIBURON SHARK OF THE LAND MASKED WRESTLER (yes I shamelessly copied it)

>>54849945
Monk is simply a term for all those guys who live in monasteries and their roles and functions in societies depend on the cultures they grew and evolved in.

Some are healers and religious guys who can exorcise evil spirits and worse as good as the local clerics or inquisitors. Others are smiths and metallurgists who can make wargear that is both practical and awesomely looking. And there are some that are scholars/philosophers and etc.

And then there are those who simply like to live out their lives in isolation and etc.

>>54893453
Anon in the context of D&D character classes, Monk is very explicitly a kung fu kicking Shaolin Monk.

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Arabic monks could be breddy easy actually. Just base them off Sufis and other smol esoteric sects, maybe even Sikhs.

Speaking of Sikhs, Indians already have enough monk-tastic goodness.

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The important thing that needs to be reminded is that monks don't have to be always unarmed. It's not like they are incapable of using weapons but they can also use the powers they develop with weapons as well.

The dude from Thunderbolt Fantasy comes to mind. He has a fucking stick he painted silver and just casually rips and tears through mooks.

However, suggest even slightly it seems that unarmed and armed combat can co-exist in the same setting and people loose their fucking minds.

Is there a way to do a Strength monk and not have shit AC, and still have the best movement speed in the game?

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>>54896317
>The dude from Thunderbolt Fantasy comes to mind. He has a fucking stick he painted silver and just casually rips and tears through mooks.
Still the best moment of the series and there are a lot of great moments.

What about a Sailor who lost his ship from pirates, but got picked up by another, and on the year journey home the a monk taught him about how the ocean basically acts as Ki and how to harness it?

>>54896317
>>54896405

I loved the whole running thing with everybody going 'stop saying you crossed the wastelands, you can just tell me you're a moron instead', and then their collective 'oh shit' moment when the bulb connects about how crazy good he must be if he actually did cross it to get there and be a bum.

>>54896405
Wasn't this show on Toonami a few years ago? I remember there was some puppet show on Toonami back when it used to air on Cartoon Network and show Naruto reruns.

>>54896492

It just came out like last year I think.

>>54896500
Ah, must've been another Japanese puppet show thing.

>>54896463
How about how they commented on how his swordsmanship was weird and he uses too much force. Only to realize that he is literally forcing a stick through enchanted stone.

>>54896492
You're thinking of Wu-lin warriors which is also by the same studio.

>>54896521
>You're thinking of Wu-lin warriors which is also by the same studio.
Okay, that explains it then. I knew it looked familiar but at the time I didn't really watch it because, well, I was young and the puppetry didn't interest me.

Are they good shows?

>>54896323
Unless you roll amazing stats, lol no.

>>54896545

Dunno about Wu-lin, but Thunderbolt Fantasy I enjoyed watching. I think part of it was the spectacle of the performance and everything; at certain points my brain was going 'this is by the numbers shounen anime, and if it was animated I wouldn't be watching it', but at the same time there's scattered lines and moments that I thoroughly enjoyed.

>>54896545
Wu lin warriors is a very bad adaptation. Like, turning characters into surfers when they are supposed to be shoulin monks bad.

Thunderbolt Fantasy is amazing and you need to watch it with as few spoilers as possible. Here's the first scene of the show, if this doesn't sell you I don't know what will.
https://youtu.be/1muOeJ4fBps

>>54896521

Ah yeah, I'd forgotten that part. I also thought it was funny in that whole reveal scene. "Sir, I've got your sword? But it's a stick?" "Ah fuck it, I've got another stick"

>>54896545
Thunderbolt is written by notorious author Gen Urobutcher

>>54888789
What does the God of Revenge get from allowing that?

>>54879203

Then why the hell would anyone use weapons or armour?

If a single man can train his skin to be as tough as you say along with hands that can rend steel like paper, why ever bother making weapons for serious armies when they can just train them for a pittance?

>>54898006
>when they can just train them for a pittance?
It takes years of dedication to achieve the mental state and chi balance to create skin of stone and hands of steel.

It takes a couple of months at most to train foot soldiers in basic formations and proper spear usage. And historically speaking it was done in weeks and sometimes days.

>>54896323
Dump wis for con and muti class into Barbarian?

At least you'll get more hit points.

>>54892785
>>54892785
>the big three: Fighting Man, Thief, and Wizard would be enough. The other classes are essentially drawn out feats stretched to be class

AD&D spell it out as a Big Four: Warrior, Rogue, Wizard and Priest. Those were the games "metaclasses".

The reason is in my mind the main reason why monks sucks and don't work in DnD.

It isn't becuase monks clash with DND's implied PseudoEuropean setting but with DND's class design. They fill the roll of either Rouge, Warrior, Wizard or Priest.