No Frostgrave allowed - Edition Preview for Ghost Archipela

Title some how didn't get included, but /awg/ non the less.

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Oh boy this Frostgrave game sure is fun and unique, guise!

Any mini ranges look like the original Guild wars?

>>54827330
I've had a blast playing it.

To the Gundam guy, I demand GMs, all the GMs... or at least the ones from First Gundam, 0080, and 0083.

>>54828332
As did I when I had a group that played regularly.
It has its flaws, sure. I would have liked more opportunity to level up my mooks than just hiring a better dude and saying it's really the old dude with new equipment.
But still, it was enjoyable and very simple to hop into.
I really liked a lot of the scenarios the books gave. I've been working on adapting some of them to Shadow War Armageddon, which has pathetically few scenarios from its core rulebook to run.

>>54828420
There is 2 of us.

1/144 Guy here.

I'm going to do 0079, then then OYW OAVs. you will have your GMs for sure.

>>54828469
Ah, I was having a hard time following the last thread. GM Custom is best mobile suit.

>>54828561
There's a guy doing a 1/400 one and then there is me doing a 1/144 one. I was the one who put out the test rule set in the last thread.

Fuck it, I may as well set up a Discord for people who want to hop in and give feedback. https://discord.gg/CNXzgvT

I think SAGA is technically more /hwg/, but how is it? Going to buy some cheap plastics I think.

>>54828633
I had fun the couple times I played it, but you've really gotta know your opponent's dice board or you'll get blindsided quick. I hear the crusader version is a little more balanced.

>>54827303
delete this, you forgot the titlebar

if you don't like frostgrave it's because you're a WAAC baby who should play nothing but magic the gathering

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>>54829994

Let's not mate. I'm grateful for the fantasy plastics at least. I'm a brainlet for rules these days so Heroquest and Song of Blades and Heroes scratch my itch.

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>>54830081

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>>54830096

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>>54830104

nth for frostgrave posters please leave

>>54830081
These are great. I have a few of them in my bits box I've not touched. Would be nice to see them painted up well

>>54830081
Where's the baddies?

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>>54830151

I need to pick them up sometime, I have the other "awesome foursomes" and also ones from a couple of other games like Dark World and the D&D Fantasy Adventure boardgame.

Coolest thing I've seen with the Dungeonquest ones is this guy making tech-gangers with them.

http://gonzohistorygaming.blogspot.co.nz/2015/01/techno-primitive-conversions.html?m=1

Anyone got a source on 15 or 28mm bronze-age near easterners circa 1,000 BC? I feel like doing some biblical era skirmishing but all I can find is the stuff from Warlord.

You know, the more I want to get into Wrath of Kings or Dark Age the anger I get with CMON and their idiotic attitude towards retailers and distributors.

God damn I hate them.

>>54830998

Never support CMoN, anon. They do not care about you, they only care about their terrible Kickstarters.

Pirate rules. Proxy models. Never reward.

>>54830817
have you tried foundry?

>>54831092
Rules for both those games are free.

>>54830998
I've heard they were bad, but never why.

>>54827303
generals without titles shouldn't be allowed

>>54829994
I prefer something well written but whatever you say, fluff bunny

Is /awg/ excited for reaper bones 4? >>54832366

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I dug out my Shadowrun minis to use them in Dredd. They'll be probably small, but will make nice Juve Perps. Not sure about the guy in the cloak - doesn't seem exactly cult-looking, so I'm not sure how I'll use him, but it's a nice mini. Any ideas are welcomed.

>>54832540
It'll be pretty good.

>>54832540
Not worth the money, too much junk I'll never use and not enough cool stuff for the price. Only reason to buy it would be to do videos on painting everything. Got too many projects as it is

>>54832730
Maybe, I play a lot of SoBaH with gfs or non-tabletop friends, so I use everything between casual beer and pretzel games, D&D and board games

And like you said, since it won't arrive for so long it gives me time to clear off the painting bench and make room for this stuff

Spartan Games are at it again

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/921886974/firestorm-galaxy-expansion/description

On the other hand those Saurian ships look nice as heck.

>>54833094
did they ever deliver their last kick starter?

>>54832540
Not really. It's good for p&p, if you have no minaitures at all, but for wargames at looks really bad.

>>54834144
Wow, I should try to wake up completely before posting.

>>54832540

Nah, too much guff in the core set, which works out about £120 after postage and taxes. I know they need to make new miniatures but I wish they'd throw in the basics like Rats, Bats etc. each time, I need them not Undead Basilisks or something.

Combined with Reaper getting stingier I'm just going to carry on waiting for stuff to drop through to retail and buy blisters that interest me.

>>54833094
Well, at least it's just new stuff for an existing game rather than yet another new game.

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Me on the left.

>>54827303
anyone have the frostgrave firearm rules? Just looking for those from spellcaster 1.

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Mexceed Senki anon here. Decided to pick up a tripcode (don't worry, I'll only use it when discussing the game).
Anyway, I've completely overhauled the combat system. Instead of using one based on SoBaH, the game now uses AC (armour class) that you would roll against depending on what weapon you've equipped your mech with.
When you purchase a mech for your team, you are actually only purchasing the frame of a mech, and you will probably want to purchase its armour plating, weaponry and any other doodads you may need.
Right now, there are five basic factions that are still heavily WIP. None of the names set in stone, obviously:
The Federation is your basic "good guy" military army based on the EFF from the Gundam series.
Next is the New Order. They're the main rival group of The Federation and they use cheaper, less powerful mecha. They're based on Zeon, also from the Gundam series.
The Space Pirates are just your basic ragtag pirates, but in space. They use stolen mecha and other vehicles in battle and have no real end goal.
I also added "factions" to represent non-human threats, like the Angelics, which are based on the Angels from Evangelion and have unique abilities depending on what shape they are (walkers, avian-like, abstract, etc.).
The Kaiju faction is, well, just Kaiju: huge monsters that, while fairly lacking in abilities, have very high stats. The God-Zillard is one big motherfucker and has a nuclear breath ability as well as some other things to make him worth his large price tag.
Again, the names are not set in stone: I will almost definitely be changing most of them. The current names are just there to placehold and give a feel for the faction.
The game uses D10s for everything and distances are easily customized to work with any scale. Out of the box, though, the game is meant to work with 1/300th (or 6mm) scale miniatures, like this 1/300 RGM Gashapon Gundam. These are easily found on eBay and are about 2.5" tall.

>>54832087
Well my problem with them is twofold. They seem to love announcing and releasing new games more than they do supporting existing ones.

But the really bad part is that unless a retailer wanta to carry their stuff, CMoN willl generally not do business with them unless the retailer agrees to buy a ridiculous amount of product first. So either don't carry their stuff, or buy more than the store can reasonably be expected to sell. This pretty much boils down tk having to use the CMoN webstore if you want your product, rather than being able to buy from a variety of retailers.

>>54838478
>CMoN pretending they're gw

that's funny actually, more because with GW it usually works out given how widespread and popular warhammer is and the product is designed to be purchased over and over

Most of CMoN is single buy items which are then abandoned and never have new stuff added

That and if you buy anything retail CMoN you're getting straight robbed, if you miss a kick starter for a CMoN product you should never buy that product ever.

>>54831092
While that is true I really like the models for those games. They make it hard to support them anyway since I can't get their stuff anywhere.

>>54832087
Their attitude towards retailers and ditributors is just backwards. It's nearly impossible to get their non-board games anywhere but directly from them. It makes it almost impossible to play their games.

>>54830096
Would you look at that brawdsward! Not even the gargoyle can stand up to that!

>>54838784
Or it's forward thinking wjhere they use the internet and cut out the dying middleman

Does anyone know of any miniatures that would work for an Ultima-themed game?

>>54839101
Reaper line is classic fantasy

>>54838784
>I really like the models for those games

Based Chinaman?
BECOME Base Chinaman?

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>>54836083

>>54839092
Even if the idea of the game store being a "dying middle man" were true, you can't even get WoK or DA stuff from most online retailers. Miniature market carries WoK, but Dark Age? Noble Knight is the only place other than eBay I can find and their stock is crap.

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>>54833094
...The Pathogen ships are all literally diseased genitals.

>>54839885
cool, thanks (different anon, but much thanks regardless). Anyone got the dungeon/gnolls book and willing to share?

>>54840334
I'm disappointed they went that direction with the Pathogen ships. I liked the old ones where they were other factions ships that had been infected. Gave them more character.

>>54839101
maybe some stuff from reaper? They have a bones 4 kick starter atm

>>54832366

>>54840334
>1600s Polish Infantry
>has a gun
Didn't Poles fight wish sabres on horseback until WW2?

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>>54840752

>>54830817
>>54831610
Foundry, Essex, Irregular, in descending order of quality and price.

Irregular paint up ok, honest.

>>54839925
>Game stores can't compete on price
>They add extra cost due to needing a profit
>Companies can now just take orders online and ship directly to customers with automated services
>Outside of mega retailers (i.e. Amazon, Walmart) there is simply no reason to play ball with smaller companies any more.

And when 3D printing hits it's going to be even easier to just remove all middle men and set even more direct to the customer.

>>54841516

Essex looks like the sweet spot, supplemented by Foundry and maybe Irregular. Do you have any pictures of decent paint jobs for Irregulars? The site's gallery isn't exactly inspiring any enthusiasm on my part.

>>54841570
3D printing is probably 100 years away

>>54842921
dumbest thing i've ever heard. congrats

>>54842382
>Do you have any pictures of decent paint jobs for Irregulars? The site's gallery isn't exactly inspiring any enthusiasm on my part.
"They paint up ok" generally means that they're tabletop-decent in play, not that they look good when you pick them up and look at them closely, or take pics.

Essex are a better bet. But then, I don't really know the 28mm ranges well.

Foundry do sales a few times a year - usually it's "buy 8 packs, get 2 free, buy 16 packs, get 6 free" on their standard packs. This is expensive, but if you're doing an annual order it's not too bad.

>>54842935
It's nowhere fucking close to matching injection molding, if you talk to anyone (reaper, privateer press, etc) they will straight up tell you 3D printing is 100 years away

It's not anywhere close to matching the detail of injection molding which humans have been doing for a long time

and the BIG kicker is unlike computer printing peripherals there aren't any corporations really driving the technology

maybe educate yourself fucker, people have been screaming for almost a decade about how 3d printing is going to kill models and the technology hasn't even shifted

>>54843024
100 years away dude. think about what has happened in the past 100 years. get a grip. did they just thaw you out of ice or something?

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I know everyone's making Gundam games at the moment but I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring with this.

I wanted something even crunchier and more "real-time" feeling than Infinity's ARO system to be played with very small forces on a very small table with a lot of terrain, so came up with this turn sequence.

I've cribbed a lot of wording from the Infinity rulebook because it explains the concepts of intention and AROs very well.

Does this actually sound fun though? It's something that makes perfect sense in my head, adding a risk management thing - does a short-ranged mech hold fire until it's within optimal range, risking the enemy reaction fire killing it before it can even fire, or does it fire early and break off the approach?

>>54843985
Looks cool at first glance. Will give it a better look later. What minis would you use for this? If you haven't decided yet, there are a few really good resources I've found for minis I can share here for anybody that might want to know.

>>54841570
One of my local ships sells everything at a 20% discount. I can get stuff cheaper there than direct from the companies.

I can coubt at least seven LGS's within about 20 minutes drive of me.

The thing with CMON is you can't even get WoK or DA from Warstore.

>>54841570
The problem with this mentality is that brick and mortar stores still have a place in this market. There's still a culture of playing at your FLGS for many people.

That attitude is like saying that cafes will be killed off by the drive-through and fast food restaurants. Its a niche that still has market share because people are willing to pay extra on the product for the experience.

And 3d printing is still a long way off for those purposes.

>>54844043
I hadn't thought much on minis as yet but something comparable to X Wing ships in size would be ideal (the very small blind box mechs you can get).

I was going to use the Whisper KS stuff when it came.

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>>54844852
You should look into Gashapon Gundam stuff. They come in both 1/400 (these stand at about 1.8" tall) and 1/300 (6mm scale, they stand at about 2.5" tall) scale. Only downside is they're made of a soft plastic. This is what I use for Mexceed Senki. Pic related, I think.
If you decide you want to go smaller, there's the Heavy Gear miniatures and also the miniatures for Jovian Chronicles. Both of those have older minis from what I think is their older editions that are around 40-50mm tall (and they're metal, which is a big plus).

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Since people are talking about gundam wargames, I might as well post an idea I had (aka saw another game do and decided to steal) for it. The idea is that your wounds/hp/etc are derived from your equipment. By default, an MS can only take one hit and if even a single one gets through dodging/armor/etc the unit is dead. However, certain equipment (most handheld weapons/shields, Alex-style disposable armor, etc) can be discarded to ignore the hit at the cost of losing whatever benefits that equipment gave.

For example, a Gundam Mk II would be represented by 3-4 pieces/cards/etc: one for the "core" unit that would give the base stats and innate weapons like the vulcan pod and beam sabers (that can't be lost to damage but at the same time can't be given up to save the MS), one card for the shield (which doesn't do anything on its own but can be burnt to survive an attack), one card for the clay/hyper bazooka or beam rifle (which would be its primary weapon but could be given up to get the unit out of an emergency), and optional cards for bonus equipment like the flying armor or G Defensor (which would provide buffs or passive abilities).

Here's the character creation for Mass Effect: Terminus. These guys are the protagonists (or antagonists) of the campaign, supported by a couple of mook squads. The creation system allows you to quickly generate an interesting framework to build your own character from, with unique and interesting in-game benefits.

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>>54846543

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>>54844852
>I hadn't thought much on minis as yet but something comparable to X Wing ships in size would be ideal (the very small blind box mechs you can get).
>>54845385

Repoastan. GSight was a very limited edition that came with small diorama pieces; they're the only source for the hovertrucks in the gashapon scales. There are also California Base and Jabrow Base turret bunkers (Cali Base is squared, Jabs are rounded) and Samson trucks. Some of the Strategy of Gundam models of ships and intermediate-sized heavy vees are actually closer to 1/400 than the Gundam colection mins. Notably, the SoG models for the Luggun and Big Tray.

There are a few holes: The Guntank Mk. I only got released as part of the LE White Base set, and they somehow never made an MP Guntank despite having everything else from 08th MST >including< Karen's damned GM Head Gundam.

There's a guy on the 1/400 Collection Wargaming* group on Facebook/Yahoo who's working on licensing a new game, but his minis are still in the prototype stage. Still worht talking to him about.

*Don't get excited, it's just a port of the SD Generation/SRW engine to tabletop.

Oh, and I need to post the link, but someone finally scanned Senki. I don't have the time or skill to translate it, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could reach out for someone who does.

>>54841570
With really niche games like much of what CMoN's games either are or turn into once it abandons i terest in them for their next big project, game stores really are crucial to providing you with a place to meet that one other weirdo that plays the game.

Also, if you miss something when CMoN has it in stock, it's anyones guess how many months it will be before they decide to replenish sold-out inventory items. So if you wanted to jump into Dark Age (as an example) tonight, good fucking luck getting a faction starter or anything popular in a faction. So it's not like being the nigh sole distributor of a lot of their goods means you can even get their stuff, anyway.

>>54846604
>Oh, and I need to post the link, but someone finally scanned Senki
I've had the scans of Gundam Senki for a little while now, if that's what you're referring to. It's just raw scans though, not even in a PDF.
Do you know by any chance if there's a translation being done right now? Closest thing I could find seemed dead, the most recent copy I have is 0.80 or something like that.

>>54846557
An Asari
Born on a Starship
Slaver

Extranet Addict
Maimed
Extensive Tattoos

3000 Credits
>Medium Armour (200 Credits, 2pts)
>Medium Kinetic Barrier (300 Credits, 3pts)
>Level 3 Biotic Implant (500 Credits, 5pts)
>>Stasis (300 Credits, 3pts)
>>Reave (600 Credits, 6pts)
>>Throw (300 Credits, 6pts)
>Omni-Tool with Basic Functions (100 Credits, 1pt)
>Biofeedback System (300 Credits, 3pts)
>Omni-Blade (400 Credits, 4pts)

47pts total, 3000 Credits spent.

Quickly knocked up an example Asari slaver.

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>>54846557
>>54846786
Systems Alliance army list for comparison.

Bump so I can read some of these projects when I get off work.

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>>54836588
Oh also, I've started a fantasy variant of the game as well for people who aren't interested in mecha stuff. It does differ in quite a few areas, obviously, so it isn't just a reskin and has its own mechanics and stuff like spells and enchanted items.
Should I add a system for enchanting weapons, or should I just add enchanted weapons to the list of buyable equipment?
Like Mexceed Senki, this game is meant to be streamlined and simple, but also with a lot of customization for your individual units/characters. I'm trying to find a happy medium of simple and customizable.

>>54843024
Jesus fucking Christ mate, what the fuck is your problem.

>>54840899

(As a Nids player) - Kek!

Speaking of Gundam models, did that guy who started that 1/144th scale game post anything recently?

>>54851401
He posted a link to a discord channel at the toppish of the thread.

Does anyone got a pdf for this?

https://www.amazon.com/Cthulhu-Campaigns-Ancient-Rome-Osprey/dp/1472816005

>>54849394
Shit son, have you even finished the mecha yet? Is you crazy?
A system for enchanting weapons is cool, but I understand it could be harder to set up.

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>>54840334
>...The Pathogen ships are all literally diseased genitals.


To be fair, Ground Zero Games have been doing that for years.

>>54852951

>mfw Space ... Pencils ... are mathematically (i.e.volume-to-size ratio) the most efficient SpaceShip hull shape available.

>>54853119
Really brings a new meaning to the term 'Full Thrust'

That guy with the Italian Wars / Condottieri idea

You put anything together yet?

>>54853944
Odd that I checked this thread right at the moment this popped up.

Right now I'm just trying to get everything written down. There's a surprising amount of writing involved even for what is meant to be a reasonably simple ruleset. The basics of the system is that it's d12 based, and you roll under or equal to a relevant stat (plus modifiers) for an action to be successful. Units can act twice per turn, so they could move twice to sprint, attack twice if you're stuck in a particularly vicious melee, or use a couple of different maneuvers (currently I've only thought of pushing, tripping, and disarming).

Currently it also uses a really rough alternating activation system where units have an initiative stat that determines when they activate, with higher initiative units moving, then the next highest, and so on. I haven't experimented with alternating actions outside of the Warlord random dice mechanic before, so this will probably need a few kinks worked out of it.

As far as the campaign system itself, I honestly have no experience with campaign systems at all, so I'm just writing based off what I'd like to see in one. There are two main currencies in the campaign: florins and renown. Florins are used to hire and equip troops, while renown determines who wins the campaign. The idea being that main objectives in battles get you renown, while side objectives get you florins. Even though a brigata might be winning the campaign currently with a higher renown score, the trailing brigata could still stand a chance at a comeback from having focused more on side objectives, therefore bringing more/better equipped mercenaries to later battles.

Because I think it'd bog down the game too much, currently the only rpg-like elements are for your captains who gain points after battles (win or lose) that can be used to increase stats or unlock abilities. There'll be different kinds of captain too, with some being leaders and some being fighters.

>>54854107
>D12 roll under
Cool. Interesting to see the d12 used. How do you plan to do opposed tests? Just a blackjack-esque "both roll under, whichever side rolls higher without failing wins"?

>Init-based AA
Seems like it could work fine. Immediate problems I see are
-if you do it with dice that is a LOT of rolling every round (you could just do it once at the start of the game, and stick with that. As a note, it slightly lessens the importance of the stat if it's rolled that infrequently).
-If you don't do it with dice, you'll have flat numbers and that could mean a lot of equal initiatives - so how do you determine who goes first? Whichever way makes it alternate back and forth most smoothly, in whichever order desired?

>Florins vs Renown
Seem like they should be fine, but I think Florins should be generated from primary objectives too, at least a little bit? Or maybe have Renown do something, even if it's mild bonuses at kind-of-far-apart Renown levels. I dunno what, though. Morale boosts? Extra Florins from side objectives? Better access to gear/recruits?

>RPG-Like elements
Hmm, only on one man? So do most of your men not improve outside of their gear?
Would it thus end up a bit like Frostgrave, except it's now Captain + Warband and not Wizard+Warband?

>>54854283
>How do you plan to do opposed tests?
There aren't any opposed tests at the moment. One soldier tests accuracy (with any modifiers from cover/the weapon itself) to shoot another soldier with his crossbow, and if successful the other soldier then tests his armour (minus any armour modifiers from the crossbow). I'm trying to keep it reasonably simple, so tests are simply looking at the stat, applying one or two modifiers at most, and rolling. Where possible I've also tried to remove tests to make it play faster, for example, you can jump across a gap up to half your speed stat with no rolling necessary, but that's tangential now.

>a LOT of rolling every round
>how do you determine who goes first?
Current idea was that each player rolls off at the start of the game, and elects to go either first or second. Then during every subsequent turn, the first player activates a soldier first if they both have soldiers sitting on the same initiative step (say, both have a couple of initiative 9 stradiots). Then they take turns activating a single soldier each on that step until all soldiers have acted. If only one player has soldiers on a step, they simply activate all their soldiers on by one until they've all acted. The initiative is currently not a stat that gets tested by anything, same with their speed stat which is simply their max move in inches for a single action.

>Florins should be generated from primary objectives too
True, they probably will be. I'm sure scenarios will go through plenty of revisions once I get around to writing them.

>maybe have Renown do something, even if it's mild bonuses
That's a clever idea, but it'd be hard to balance since it's essentially giving bonuses to the side that's already (nominally) winning.

TBC because too long

>>54854283
>>54854502
>only on one man? So do most of your men not improve outside of their gear?
Pretty much, my basic idea was for the soldiers to be more focused around picking counters to your opponent's composition (I take Rodelero, so they take Genoese crossbowmen, so I take Stradiots, so they take Landsknecht, etc) than upgrading a core of soldiers, but I see the appeal of both approaches. To compare it to video games, my idea was more Age of Empires than Xcom.

>Would it thus end up a bit like Frostgrave, except it's now Captain + Warband and not Wizard+Warband?
It probably would, to be honest. I was currently thinking of making captains become really OP once they'd fought through a bunch of battles, which was a big reason why I thought my system would fit better in /awg/ than /hwg/, since it's more arcadey than simulationist.

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>>54840752
>that post

Polish Winged Hussars had as standard gear a Lance, a Sabre, a brace of Pistols, and a war-mace

watch your step, anglic plebian....

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>>54843985 here

I've written the basic ranged attack, statistics and 3D movement rules for this idea now.

I tried to keep 3D movement as simple as possible (cribbing from Dropfleet).

>>54854821
Various thoughts:

One thing I really dislike is that there's no stat for pilot skill, considering the theme of "very good pilot in grunt MS can keep up with or defeat inexperienced pilots in more powerful MS" is pretty common in the series.

Three range bands plus an additional one for overwatch seems a bit much to me. Maybe change it so you can overwatch at any range but it gives an additional penalty to hit?

The idea for movement and reaction fire is neat, but it sounds like it would end up kind of clunky to play with. Compared to say, Infinity's system for actions and AROs (which is the closest comparison I can think of) I don't really see what advantage this mechanic provides other than the novelty of being different. Also, the inability to react by dodging/evasion seems kind of odd to me.

I still kind of like my idea for damage more ( >>54846232 ), but then I suppose that isn't really saying much (everyone loves their own brand and all that).

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>>54852778
I have an idea for how to keep it simple. I need to refine it, as I just got out of bed, but I could put normal weapons in the buyable equipment list, and then the player could just use them as is or move on to the enchantment list and buy enchantments for weapons which would give them special effects.
As for my sanity, yeah, Mexceed Senki is pretty much done (the game anyway, still have to expand on army lists and edit). This game uses a lot of the same mechanics like the method of activation, overwatch, rolling for combat, etc. so it's not a huge endeavor (at least in my opinion) to make this new variant (which is maybe the wrong word to use as the games do differ in some core areas so, like I said before, this isn't just a reskin).
Plus I have a lot of free time, so I can write pretty much all day. In fact, my girlfriend's out on a field study for the next couple weeks so my mission is to get both games done-ish before she returns (which shouldn't be very hard seeing as they're both playable right now).
As far as the lore goes the games, the fantasy game is a lot more fleshed out. For Mexceed Senki, my goal was to make it very lean so it could easily be applied to any setting the player might want to play in (like Gundam, Evangelion, Godzilla, etc.). My goal for this new fantasy game, however, is to expand on the lore more as it is based on a setting I've been coming up with and tinkering with here and there for a little while now. This won't be too in-your-face, though, so the game can still be easily applied to pretty much any "standard" fantasy setting (LotR, D&D, Pathfinder, hell maybe even something like WoW).

In an alternate activation game with plentiful reactions:

Do you guys think it's important for the target of an attack to roll Armor Saves, or should the active player (the guy shooting) just make it, so that it's just active player rolling?

Most every game has the person being hit roll the armor save (however it works), but I was operating under the idea that is just done for a (false) "sense of agency" for that player, and to mitigate how often they feel out of the game. The thing is if reactions are plentiful, their downtime should be minimal, so it shouldn't be necessary...right?

>>54855437
You always want the defender to have a sense of agency and a chance to actually defend themselves.
It's no fun to have someone take out or pin your unit without a chance to DO something.
Like Frostgrave has the D20 roll-offs. Then comparing the results to your armor score if the attacker wins.
Or Shadow War, which uses the very 40k way of the attacker determines how many of their shots are good enough to be hits. Then how many of those hits are good enough to be wounds. Then the defender gets a chance to utilize their active armor or invulnerability saves.

>>54855213
For pilot skill I was going to have different levels of unit to buy (for +X points get a higher skill version), but at this stage I wanted to focus on basic maths and turn sequence before army lists.

I see your concerns about the complexity of overwatch, but want to playtest it at least once before ruling it out.

I appreciate the feedback, though!

>>54855437
Armor Saves as in 40k are a dumb idea anyway. Armor should be figured into the wounding process. Now wether or not both players should roll stuff when one player tries to kill the other's guys is another question.

>>54855721
>It's no fun to have someone take out or pin your unit without a chance to DO something.
So I hear.
Couldn't this "doing" something be via a reaction system, though?
Like Infinity has a very robust reaction system where a lot of the time you'll get to attempt to react to an enemy moving and shooting at you (whether you flee, shoot back, whatever)
(A)SoBaH and Rogue Stars have Reactions you can make if enemies gamble and fail on their Activation rolls, which let you act to a degree before the enemy does (even though it's their turn).

Despite this, both systems make the target make the "wound roll" - with infinity it's the ARM/BTS Roll and with Rogue Stars it's their little table+chart system.


When you have systems like this, when you have ACTUAL ways to have agency (and not just the pretend way of "uh, you can roll the random die, I guess?"), is it actually important enough to slow the game down and swap the dice rolling & "cognitive load" of resolving the action over to the player being shot?

>>54844044
WoK had no push post KS, they had alliance distort but alliance dropped em when no one was buying. Similar situation with Dark Age, hell waster HAD darkage years ago, but since the cmon redo they haven't been on board.

>>54855942
>playtest it at least once
were you planning on doing that IRL or using tabletop simulator or something?

>>54857168
The CMON redo of Dark Age has been mixed. Its given the game a lot more resources and exposure then its ever had, so it theoretically should be in a better state. But then CMON's issues with distribution and supplying fucks that over.

>>54827303
Frost grave question if I use gw sized models mostly from the ork range to make up my warband. How large should the terrain be?

>>54857364
IRL, I have many weeb wargamer friends.

>>54857560
GW orks are not really bigger than the human models either for GW or Frostgrave.
The Frostgrave plastics are more or less compatible with most GW stuff.
GW of course has some issues with internal scale screep, but that shouldn't affect your scenery collection.

>>54857560
>>54857749
unless you mean the AoS ironjaw orruks. Those are twice as big as big as regular ork warriors.

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>>54852778
To everyone in the thread: what's your favorite unique mechanic from a wargame? It can be any mechanic that makes a system stand out

>>54857855
didn't mean to make this a reply to a post, sorry about that. Half asleep and on mobile

>>54857855
Depends on what genre you are going for.
I like the random activation system from GoA and BA. And the firefight rule, i.e. if somebody shoots at you, you get to shoot back with the targeted unit.

Games that use overwatch in some form are also always great. It adds a lot of tactical depth to maneuvering.

These may not be unique, but very good.

I have a hard time thinking of a game that has truly unique rules though.
Maybe the FiveCore shock and kill die thing. It's a more interesting approach to damage than straight -1 wounds or something.

>>54857855
There are too many to pick just one from.

MERCS and their initiative mechanic where each model rolls at the start of the turn and has a modifier showing how much they can change said roll by.

Heavy Gear has its electronic warfare which, while I don't fully understand it, is a great little bit to add flavor.

Dark Age has weapon malfunctions.

As >>5485813 stated the random activation in BA, GoA and World of Twilight are all super fun.

>>54857855
Not really unique, but I like how Dark Age incorporates charging into their system. Its not a separate action, if you move into contact with an enemy during a normal move, you charge and get a free attack. It makes close quarters very deadly and AP efficient.

>>54857749
Nah regular ones just have an ork nob as my wizard along with a reaper orc shaman as the apprentice. Thank you for the advice.

>>54857855
>>54858135
Seconding the damage resolution in FiveCore. Combat immediately becomes lethal while still having a bit of randomness to it.

>>54833094
>>54833109

How long before they abandon this game as well?

>>54858795
It's just new stuff for Firestorm Armada.

>>54846543
>Mass Effect: Terminus

Is this a fan made game or something?

>>54858855
Yep. I'm writing a Mass Effect wargame.

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Not sure If you guys saw, or care, but DP9 showed the render for the Jackal for PRDF.

I'm hoping it's just the render and angles but the arms seem a bit oddly long.

Still nice to see new models being shown. I wonder if they'll do NuCoal's Arbalest as a metal or if they'll try and get it in the KS as part of the NuCoal starter.

>>54858911
Seems like a cute model.
How are doing the fluff now, with books, excerpt in some web? What the stick of this one?

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>>54858911
The head looks kinda bubblegum crisis-y

>>54859365
The living rule book has fluff, and I think they said they might put aome out online or just expand the fluff in the LRB. Personally I'd love to see some short stories get written up. I'd even offer to do a few in my spare time between writing all my other stuff.

>>54858911
>heavy gear is still alive
I'm always kind of surprised that game has managed to survive for this long with only like twenty people that care about it. It's good to see DP9 doing their best to keep VOTOMS: The Game running.

>tfw we'll never get to see Jotunheim, Atlantis, or New Jerusalem models

>>54859705
>with only like twenty people that care about it
They only have themselves to blame. I'm always happy for more miniatures lines to exist, but those guys really cocked it up.

>>54859705
I'm confident we'll see thowe factions as long as the next KS goes well enough(and the first made over 5 times their starting goal). This will basically round out the primary factions currently in the LRB(except Balck Talons and Eden), so from here it would only make sense that another KS would see new armies produced.

>>54859938
I feel like they're trying to make the game better and easier to get into. New, sleeker, rules, better communication with fans and what appears to be a desire to do better this time.

Yeah they fucked up in the past, but I'm willing to give them a second chanve if the game is going to be good.

>>54860145
I still wish that somebody made mechas in that scale that weren't boxy.

>>54858911
Is that a light gear with a *RC? Holy shit that's significantly more useful than a heavier chassis with one.

>>54861224
Yeahb the Fusillade Jackal has a light rotary laser, which means for 8 points it can toss out some pretty decent attacks. Brace that bad-boy and enjoy rolling 4 dice with with a weapon rocking PEN 7.

>>54861482
After seeing how badass a 12pt MRL-equipped Black Mamba can be the idea of a lighter version with Airdrop for 8pts make me very excited.

>>54862157
Yeah. I may grab one or two Jackals during the KS because they seem like a solid addition to a GP squad.

Next I'd love to see them get around to making the Spartan. So here's hoping for some good stretch goals on this outing.

So I posted a mechanic idea a few threads ago, and looking for some feedback or ideas for some parts of it.

The mechanic is for a skirmish game. When a model attacks another model, both players roll 3D12, trying to roll a set number to score a success. Each success the defense rolls cancels one of the success for the attacker's roll. Once that's determined, the attacker does damage for each success it was able to score that wasn't canceled. The idea for damage is similar to how Malifaux does its damage spread, where you would have 3 numbers, and you'd deal damage depending on the number of leftover successes; for example, a spread of 1/2/3, one success does 1 point, two does 2 points, and three or more does 3. There's also a crit system where rolling one of more 12's adds an extra success and any special things the weapon or model can do on a crit, and a malfunction system where rolling multiple 1's does something bad.

The first question I have is, with a system like that, does the idea of a base spread of 2/3/5 damage on model with 6 HP sound like a good place to start? I'm trying to leave some space on the lower end to allow for design space. I figured with this, the average model will still take 2 or 3 hits to remove, with a high spike giving a big advantage, but not straight out nuke the average.

The second is I was looking at a system once again inspired by Malifaux for damage absorption. But I didn't want to go the Armor route of reducing every damage amount taken, since I want it to be a core part of one of the faction's identity. Instead, what I was thinking is that "Armor" would absorb so many damage points per turn. So Armor (1) would mean that each turn, the model ignores the first point of damage it would suffer. It would mean high armor models would still take focus fire to take it down, without turning into an exponential problem, and its not just tacking on more HP, since it renews each turn.

>Continued.

>>54865457
Last part is I want to make close combat rewarding, but dangerous. I want to have a counter attack system, but most ideas I have for it makes counter-attacking the optimal choice in most scenarios. The basic idea I've had in most iterations was the defender makes their own attack roll, and whoever rolls the most successes scores the hit, with the other roll canceling successes. Example, if the attacker scores 2 successes, and the defender scores 3, the defender would hit the attacker for 1 success worth of damage. This just makes it that the only time to defend is if you can't attack back (back striking or knocked down) or have better defense, which if trying to balance against ranged attacks, is hard to work with.

Another idea I had was just dropping the canceling successes thing, counter-attacking hits the attacker for as hard as it can, but so does the attacker. It'd take some heavy internal balance to make it work (greatly reducing the average melee damage lines so it doesn't feel like suicide if you attack in melee), but it still doesn't feel great.

I'm kinda out of ideas for it, other than just biting the bullet and accept defending would just be a niche scenario in melee.

why are companies going from metal to flat boring as single piece plastic? that shit completely removes it from being a hobby....

>>54865695
Plastic is cheaper.

>>54865695
Got an example anon? I can't think of anyone doing this

>>54827303
what the fuck is that model even

i need it for special operations

Looking for Frostgrave Folio and Relicblade Wave1 Cards scan

>>54843024
>if you talk to anyone (reaper, privateer press, etc) they will straight up tell you 3D printing is 100 years away
both companies use 3d printing right now

>>54868842
That's industrial grade 3D printing and it's used for prototyping and masters.
The type of 3D printing that is being discussed is home grade 3D printing which is nowhere close to injection molding.

>>54865457
>and three or more does [the max damage listed]
>also a crit system where rolling one of more 12's adds an extra success
Slightly iffy on this
Feels like extra successes past 3 should still do something, and since you're only going to be getting those with crits they can just be flat +1 damage.

So if you have 2/3/5 and you roll 2 successes and 1 crit, you end up doing 6 damage - which, yes, will 1HK a normal model, but it's also a very lucky roll. Otherwise that 5 damage is still going to make you 2-hit people, making it sort-of the same as 3 damage (although it will help negate armor and whatnot, which is very helpful if Armor 1 is at all common)

>counter-attacking with both making attack rolls and canceling successes
What if you just made the defender roll 2d12 rather than 3d12, or something like that? Less likely to win versus the Attacker, but he can mitigate some of the damage.

The question is are you giving up anything to roll the defense like this, or would you intend for every fight to be 3d12 v 2d12? Because if you every fight is that, the average damage will go down a lot.

>counter-attacking by just murdering each other hard
This also works, really. Yeah, you'd have to drop damage lines a fair amount (I bet it'd end up at like 1/2/3 or something...) which closes design space, but it "makes sense" for it be potentially deadly to both combatants.

Not sure. Be cool to have both options available as a "melee reaction" [def or off?], somehow, but, eh...

>>54869458
I'm not strongly against 1HKs, I just want to avoid the really swingy way some systems go. A flat +1 damage on crits would probably work.

And Armor is going to be common. Right now I have 2 factions that are a little too similar on the base level, since they use the same basic weapons. Since one of them is power armored, I want them to stand out a bit. And I think a renewable damage absorption would be more interesting than just upping HP count.

The more I think about it, the more I'll probably go with the murdering each other option, since there was a few other factors I forgot when I first posted. The first is size difference and charging gives you damage bonuses, so there is still a reason to risk it on the attacker's end. the other part is that movement when engaged is going to be promoted. I originally had it planned that if a model moves into the back line of sight arc of a model, melee attacks not only force the target to only defend, but you'd gain a bonus to hit. The idea is to give incentive to move once you engage, to avoid what a lot of games end up doing, which is just tarpitting in the middle of the board once everyone gets into combat.

The current idea is to have it that a model that hasn't charged can gain the bonus if they move into the back arc, even if you started engaged with the target. If you leave engagement with a model, they get to make an attack against you that you can only defend. If the attack hits, it doesn't deal damage, but prevents you from moving out of engagement with the target. I may make it you need to beat them by 2 successes to stop them, with a crit trumping. It'd be a risk vs. reward system, where you look at whether a charge, or 2 attacks if you start engaged, is worth more than spending the AP to move into a better position and gain a better attack, while risking the enemy getting a free strike and preventing you from leaving the front line of sight arc, wasting that AP.

>>54843024
What the heck are you talking about? I've been modeling and 3D printing my own minis and conversion parts for like 5 years. It doesn't match the bulk cost of injection mold plastic for large runs, but it's a reasonable alternative to traditional small-run methods - in fact, some companies are already 3D printing their masters, which are then used to make rubber molds for spin-casting. And you absolutely can't beat 3D printing for one-off custom stuff.

If you actually look at the design specs for current laser-sintered printing, it's within the same approx level of detail as the best steel-mold injection plastics (and only a little behind the crisper resin mixes):
https://www.shapeways.com/materials/frosted-detail-plastic

0.3mm min walls, 1.0mm min wires, and 0.1mm raised/depressed feature size are all very reasonable. You can get slightly sharper edges on spincast white metal, but it's pretty close. I use this method for 6mm scale minis a lot and the detail is more than adequate.

>>54857855
First one that springs to mind is how Epic (notably in 4th) handled Assaults. It was a just-right level of abstraction that made it feel like you play out a little mini-game of 40K every time there's a "close" combat.

For those who didn't play - all the "ranged" weapons modeled were 'heavy' weapons (or larger) from 40K - missile launchers were probably the smallest thing modeled as a ranged weapon in Epic. All the other kit was represented by two stats - Close Combat (CC), which is your actual bayonets, grenades and pistols; and Firefight (FF), representing close support weapons like rifles and SMGs. When an assault is started, by getting within 6" of an enemy unit, there's a series of moves and countermoves where players try to maximize their position. And then each participating unit adds its CC to the dice pool, if in B2B with an enemy, or its FF if it is not in B2B but is within 6".

It's one of those elegant little systems that took a very simple set of stats and rules and turned it into a really interesting, tactically deep experience.

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>>54860871
>I still wish that somebody made mechas in that scale that weren't boxy.
I actually like Heavy Gear's own southern faction for that (pictured). Similar aesthetic, but the edges are a little softer. If you want something real sleek, might be worth checking out Dropzone's PHR mechs. They're not technically the same scale, but the size is close enough that they can work well.

>>54870657
And how much does a good laser-sinter cost? This discussion always goes down to "Look at how amazing these prints are! Also, look at how cheap these other printers are!"
Affordable home printers are still complete dogshit. I haven't seen a single acceptable miniature produced by a reasonably costed home printer. And "reasonable" is anything up to around 2000 bucks, in my opinion.

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There was an attempt to create an epic general that failed due to the game being extremely dead, would it be acceptable to discuss here?

>>54871007
You only took a short break from being /awg/.
We always knew you'd come back.

>>54871003
Current home printers are mostly adequate for game-quality pieces. I wouldn't recommend using them for something you're planning on entering in a painting competition, but for regular tabletop minis that are going to get a 3-color scheme, and then get banged around and scratched up anyway, it does the job.

The actual hardware for high-resolution printing is still pretty expensive, sure. The good printers are still hovering up the $10K neighborhood, but that market's set to explode in the next couple years. A number of key utility patents just expired last year, which had kept the competitive R&D cornered until now.

Even under current prices though, it's not out of reach for players. A large club (or a particularly ambitious FLGS) could acquire their own unit. And print-on-demand services like Shapeways are springing up all over. You can get a 100% custom 28mm model printed and mailed to your door for less than the cost of an average GW mini now. I've completely given up on the old bits-trading for conversion parts, since I can just model EXACTLY the part I need now, and have it in my hand in 7-10 days.

>>54871261
>Current home printers are mostly adequate for game-quality pieces.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I spend a lot of time on every single of my miniatures, even in mass battle games. I don't enter painting competitions, I just enjoy every single part of the hobby that much and I want to field the best-looking force I can. Sure, over the years a bunch of them have been banged up or scratched, but this isn't nearly a common enough event that I'd consider lower quality miniatures to be a positive.

>>54871317
I'm a bit of an old fogey - your eyesight may just be better than mine. My buddy has a makerbot (I think about $1500 retail) that gets something in the neigborhood of 1mm detail. At tabletop distances (arm's length or greater) I honestly can't distinguish it from higher-resolution pieces, once they have paint on them.

>>54871429
I'd be lying if I said that you could see any proper details at tabletop distance even on the 32mm I so adore. But I know in my heart how they look.
But really, I just love converting and painting and the stuff these 1,5k PLAs put out just isn't satisfying to work with to me. Especially when I can just get cheap-ass stuff on ebay and fix that up.
There's also the fact that you actually need to be able to 3D sculpt to put out good stuff, which is a whole nother pear.

>>54871508
Yeah, that's fair. But when you need real good detail, just send it out to shapeways and let them print it on one of their $100K machines. I've had models for 6mm scale made that way, and they can get a level of detail on par with GW's Epic Armageddon era metal minis.

On the home printing front, here's an article from a couple years ago I'd saved, from a guy who had some luck with a LSR (light sensitive resin) machine:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26528&hilit=printer+christmas

>>54871007
man i love those warhound models. do you know where i can find them or would you have to kill me if you told me?

>>54871800
They look like the forgeworld ones. If you pay attention to the various used / auction / trade sites, you'll still see them pop up occasionally, sometimes for not too much.

>>54871829
Or delve into the deep underground Epic Forumware/Pirate scene.

>>54871647
These paint up nice, but it illustrates my point a bit. The standard FDM printers are cheap, but they don't produce good stuff. The light sensitive stuff is the way to go.

I very much hope that shapeways produces good quality, but I wasn't arguing against 3D printing in its entirety, just that most home printers aren't really up to snuff. I'd be interested in seeing your printed 6mm stuff, though.

Fun non-FG skirmish games? I was looking at SoBaH.

>>54868961
3D printing for mass production will never take off because that's not what 3D printers are for. Especially not home 3D printers.

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>>54871829
They aren't. The Forgeworld warhounds were based on the boxier design, those are forumware.

>>54873506
Sobah it's very simple, it can get more uh, extense with the extra rules in the different books, but at it's core is fast an fun.

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>>54871007
It's okay unless you guys start sperging with 40k memes and other shit, the board has already too much of that stuff.
So anyone has tried shapeaway for minis? There are some sweet star wars ships.

>>54873506
Open Combat is pretty fun. Lets you stat up your own dudes. Only problem is lack of actual magic.

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With the posting about space combat, I felt like revisiting something I'd been working on before.

It's meant to be small-scale with a focus on using and changing momentum and detection radius.

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Take a look at these beautiful 2mm infantry models. The detail really is impressive, isn't it? You can almost make out what they're supposed to be!

So with Necromunda it seems like GW is now 100% on the 35mm train.
I hope that other companies follow suit.

>>54874910
I hope nobody follows that. Fuck scale creep.

>>54874910
what 35mm train

why the heck should everything just scale to that?

>>54874910
>I hope that other companies follow suit.
nah fuck that.
Scale creep in GW stuff is worse enough I don't need the rest of the industry to follow suit.
Why the fuck would you want that?

It's not unless you've seen a mini with proper proportions next to a GW piece in person that you can really appreciate how much better true scale looks.

>>54874934
this. 28mm is so popular it gives you so many miniatures to choose from, if that starts changing then what happens to all the 28mm minis?

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>>54874937
>>54874946
Because 28mm is the worst of all worlds and pretty much only held up by tradition. 35mm allows for much better detail and proportions. It's perfect for skirmish games and I wished more companies would produce for it.

>It's not unless you've seen a mini with proper proportions next to a GW piece in person that you can really appreciate how much better true scale looks.
35mm is quite literally always truescale because the scale allows for it without looking goofy at times.

>>54874953
I'd wager they keep existing and there'll still be companies producing them. Don't worry anon, nobody will come to your house and smash your 28mm collection just because there's more stuff produced in 35mm.

>>54875064
yes but it would just split the community. suddenly there'd be half as many minis to choose from if you're into 28mm because a bunch of your favorite companies just went to 35mm

>>54875082
At the same time, you'd also service people that want 35mm, so that's not really an argument.

>>54875134
fuck those people, they're a minitory. fuck minorities

>>54874946
>Scale creep
The fuck are you guys on about? Scale creep is when a company increases the scale within one line, not when they start producing a whole new line at bigger scale

>>54875043
>35mm is quite literally always truescale because the scale allows for it without looking goofy at times.
Dude. You were talking about the GW minis. Have you even seen them?
There is nothing truescale about the models they shown off...
So you are quite literally fucking wrong.

It's a scale not a design decision. You can still do heroic shit in 35mm.

And the good thing about 28mm is that you can use hundred of miniature ranges including historical ranges.
By comparison there is only a handful of 35mm games.

I get the sentiment, you like 35mm better than 28mm, but it's just not gonna happen.

>>54875164
Not that guy, but the 35mm GW shit is at least better proportioned than their 28mm stuff. Just look at the Chadmarines - they quite literally use the same heads because they fit the bigger scale just fine.

>>54875043
So happy Shitposter-kun came back from vacation.

Hope you're happy with the shitstorm that's brewing.

>>54875163
Yeah. Like how the Genstealer cultists are bigger than Space Marines for example. Or the AoS khorne guys are all a full head taller then all other humanoid minis in that range.

Besides Necromunda used to be 28mm. So even with your own reasoning of increasing scale withing one line it is still size creep.

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>>54875043
Fuck truescale. Only people that care about that shit are brainlets with no taste.

>>54875208
Yeah, plus now if you run any of the older (read: better) Necromunda minis alongside (God forbid) the new ones, it'll look fucking retarded.

>>54875208
Of course GW is scale creeping, I was talking about other companies starting to produce other scales. You wouldn't call it scale-nerf if Wyrd started doing a 15mm line

>>54875249
And I was responding to the guy who said all other companies should do it.
So what was your point?

>>54875283
That it's not scale creep if Reaper or Perry or whoever started a new 35mm line or if PP reworked their entire line at 35mm.

>>54875213
Are there actually people that think this? Outside of Redshirts from one year ago, I mean.

>>54875313
Yeah as I said, Necromunda is not new...

>>54875328
Heroic scale is cute. I love the stocky look. Truescale is boring imo.

>>54875360
I accept your opinion, but I don't have to respect it.

>>54875418
I really don't care. You aren't getting your way anyway.

>>54875164
>And the good thing about 28mm is that you can use hundred of miniature ranges including historical ranges.
>By comparison there is only a handful of 35mm games.

Well that'd change of more companies produced at 35mm.

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>>54875418

>>54875427
>Kingdom Death
>Malifaux
>That cmon ASoIaF game
>Now GW
Don't jinx it, anon.

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>>54875476
>GW
It's just Necromunda. It'll probably be like Kill Team where it gets a big starter box (for you) and that's it.
>Malifaux
Shit.
>Kingdom Death
Kickstarter crap.
>ASolaF
Who?

Who0 make the best (bird) tengu models?

>>54875520
>>ASolaF
>Who?
A song of Ice and Fire, aka Game of Thrones game by CMON, i.e. more Kickstarter stuff.
Also CMON. So you know once they are done with the KS you'll never hear from it again.

>>54875602
the only ones I know about are from Bushido.
Kensai may have something too.

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>>54875606

>>54874850
I don't even know if they are ww2 infantry, dwarfs or some sci fi drones.

>>54875476
Truescale is great for display pieces, but not that good for gaming. The design decisions behind heroic 28mm are very deliberate. They make for a better looking mini and easier to distinguish units from eachother, at typical tabletop distances. And they are on average more durable, to boot.

>>54873530
Forgeworld made both patterns of warhound for epic, didn't they? Maybe I'm misremembering.

>>54873511
>3D printing for mass production will never take off because that's not what 3D printers are for
Not in the traditional sense of replacing "mass produce and ship to retailers who sell to customers", no, but they could replace it in the sense of "each consumer just prints their own, so why mass produce".

>>54873631
>So anyone has tried shapeaway for minis?
Yeah, we were discussing this a little further up. I've had some luck using shapeways to model and print things for 6mm and 10mm, where the price is pretty competitive to retail. I just had a battery of artillery tanks done for about $30 USD in their plastic material. End result was pretty good (unfortunately the clear resin photographs horribly and I haven't painted them yet).

>>54876412
Heroic scale CHAD detected.

>>54874850
I always thought 2mm was a little silly for this sort of thing. It's great for ships and aircraft, but infantry? Just use a larger figure size and have it be representative of the unit location, right?

That's what I did with my dystopian wars land units. Just used 6mm figs to replace the infantry tokens. Sure, it's out of scale, but it feels better and doesn't impact the game.

>>54876544
>but they could replace it in the sense of "each consumer just prints their own, so why mass produce".

Not any time soon. FDM printers don't have the resolution and the printers that do use resin so expensive that it's not cheaper than just buying from a manufacturer in the first place.

>>54876572
Have you tried getting through a season of regular play (and travel) with those skinny ass malifaux minis? They break constantly.

People look at marketing pics of truescale minis and say "oh, that looks SO good". But they don't take into account that 99% of the time, you're looking at the mini from a bird's eye view, and from at least an arm's length away. Nor do they think about how you pack that thing so it can survive a roadtrip or (heaven forbid) airline baggage handlers. The upscaled head, shoulders, and weapons are to counteract the distortion due to perspective. The thick limbs and blades are so they don't break off if you breath on them.

Say what you like about how the silly a space marine looks, but there are good reasons that design has endured this long.

>>54876752
Dude I'm on your side. Heroic scale is for CHADS. Truescale is for no-taste faggots who care more about
>muh realism
than aesthetics and functionality.

>>54876604
Depends on what you consider "soon" I guess. The biggest patents on laser sintering and LSR expired in 2016, and there is a massive R&D push going on as we speak. You're going to see new companies popping up like mad over the next year (they're already starting to). It's entirely possible you'll see these types of machines available in consumer and prosumer models by the end of this decade.

>>54876807
I'm working with 3D printers at the moment and the only one I've had dealings with that produces prints with the same quality I'd expect from say a GW model is an industrial printer that costs tens of thousands of dollars. It's probably similar to what companies like Prodos use to make their masters.

The printing resin is also really expensive, so to get a feasible version even for prosumers you need both the machine itself and the resin to come CRASHING down in price. That's gonna take a while.

I'm very pro-3D printing (obviously) but I think that the way it will 'revolutionise' the hobby is that small companies will digitally sculpt models then send them to other companies that own high-end printers to produce masters, which will then be used for more traditional casting.

Prodos already sort of does this, they've printed the masters for a few other companies' projects iirc.

>>54876752
Haven't broken any more Malifaux plastics than I have Space Marines. If you drop any non-tac Marine, it'll snap apart regardless. I've seen enough weapons fly off and Dire Avengers snap apart to know that "Heroic means Sturdy" is a meme for anything not Tactical Marine or Shootaboy.

>>54876992
There actually seem to already be a bunch of companies using 3D printing to make masters for spin casting. Hawk is definitely doing it, and I believe Privateer is as well. The buy-in is low enough that any small outfit could do it - just use something like shapeways to actually handle the printing, and then make your rubber molds as usual.

The other way it's already revolutionizing the hobby is that individual gamers (like myself) who want a custom piece can just model it on the computer and have it made. You don't need to wait for a sculptor to create it for you - if it exists in your mind, and you're willing to spend a little time learning to use Blender, you can have it in your hand.

>>54877339
>If you drop any non-tac Marine, it'll snap apart regardless.
I was referring to a drop from a table, not off a building. Most SM weapons are thicker than a malifaux model's torso.

I literally have not been able to devise a way to pack an Electric Creation without the little bolts snapping off.

>>54877340
Yeah that's pretty much what I mean. Instead of everybody having one of these super printers at home, you just pay a company to do the prints for you.

>>54877429
These already exist. Look at "thingiverse" or whatever. You can upload 3d printing files and other people can either download them and print them on their own or they can get it printed by a company of their choice.

>>54877459
Yeah I know it already exists, as I mentioned in >>54876992 Prodos already does it.

>>54877387
So have I. I wrap my Malifaux stuff in bubblewrap and transport it in a breadbox and I've never head issues. On the other hand, I still have nightmares from WHFB spears snapping or Devastor weapons chipping/breaking off when falling of a table. That's not to say Wyrd's stuff is impervious to harm, but the sturdyness of heroic is vastly overstated concerning anything that's not a basic, blocky frame. Top knots, weapon-tips, spears, swords, thunder hammers, shields, anything potruding has gone flying in twentyfive years of gaming. Not to mention that newer-style heroic miniatures also tend to be loaded with details that snap or break easily.

>>54865695
metal prices unless you want to pay more for your meal minis?

>>54875476
Forgive my ignorance of scales, but isn't Malifaux 32mm?

>>54874850
>people pay money for this

>>54875043
>Games Workshop
>Not looking goofy
Pick one

>>54878871
The line between 28mm heroic with good proportions, 32mm and 35mm is ridiculiously blurry

>>54875476
>Kingdom Death
You're implying people actually play this, also that penis monsters have an inherent scale.
>Malifaux
It's not 35mm scale.
>CMoN kickstarters
Kek
>GW
They use whatever magical """scale""" they like at the moment. Good luck with that.

Furthermore, all this "true scale" stuff is spindly as hell and made from brittle resin that won't last multiple years of play.

>>54859705
>It's good to see DP9 doing their best to keep VOTOMS: The Game running.
They really aren't. They've ceased dealing with distributors (although my contact with Alliance intimated that the "withdrawal" was more "getting punted because the manufacturer was demanding ludicrous shit"), and much like a few other companies I could name DP9 has somehow decided that the only advertising they need to do is running kickstarters and getting jerked-off in their in-house forums.

>>54871429
>My buddy has a makerbot (I think about $1500 retail) that gets something in the neigborhood of 1mm detail.
Eh? That "economy" doesn't really appeal to me.
I mean, teaching myself to sculpt was expensive in hours but I've put probably $50 into materials in ten years. Add another $200 for my resin setup and ongoing expendables costs, split out over 5-10 years. 3-DP is fine for prototyping - it's easier, lower-loss, and MUCH faster than traditional sculpting, for one. But I can pull 2-3 pours of resin (or about a dozen minis) in the amount of time it takes to print one 28mm infantry mini sprue on a commercial printer. Sure it's less-hazardous to use the 3DP, but frankly the quality is better and mass-production more than makes up for it. When the price comes down enough for a good-resolution printer, I'll be all over the tech, but that's not happening for a while.

>>54876595
For 2mm I just use NATO-style force-designation counters slapped in a base. Looks better and serves the purpose.

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>>54879913
(continuing on the 3DP thing)
The dude in the thread
>>54871647
linked is saying he spends $110/L on resin alone. Plus thousands on the machine and hours to print even 6mm models, plus the time required to clean up and smooth them.

I spend between $10 and $15/L for platinum-cure urethane (AKA JWR). Isocyanate "brownie" stuff like Armorcast used to use is more like $5/L. The Iso stuff is WAY more toxic, but either way I need some organic vapor carts for a mask, gloves, and spill protection. That's ~$50. Throw in another $40 for a couple decent no-spark fans, and $50 for getting mold rubber, completely ruining the first batch learning to use it, and buying another. Took me a week to start getting consistent, high-quality casts. Each pour takes half an hour to cure for ~5-10 two-inch models and some "scrap" sheet terrain (I pour the waste resin into flat, low-res one-piece sheet molds for things like basing brick, sidewalks, or even just bases).

Overall I wind up wasting about 10-15% of the resin I pick up on sprues, flashing, and ruined or badly-mixed pours. When I started, it was more like 20-25%, but discovering baby powder as a mold release and making the "trash" molds for bases has really cut that down.


>>54873631
>So anyone has tried [Shapeways] for minis? There are some sweet star wars ships.
There are indeed. Some of the sculpts are pretty badly-arranged and the initial cost is high but as a home recaster that's less of a problem. There are also a BUNCH of excellent Macross and Battletech models out there, not to mention some really cool scale-modelling stuff the railroaders have put together.

I >would< recommend going for Ultra Detail stuff if you want a master, though. Costs three times as much for a 50% improvement in detail, but that's a hell of a thing when getting it in WSF means spending two to three sculpting sessions' worth of time to clean up and re-detail the models for casting.

Has anyone here ever played Power Legion? It sounds cool but I can't find a pdf of it to try it out. Was thinking of making my own SoBaH style superhero game if I didn't like Power Legion.
Might even do it anyway. Fuck, I love homebrewing.

>>54878177
Too damn true. I just gave up with my plastic Bloodthirster after a point.

>>54877340
You already have resin SLA printers like the Wanhao Duplicator that are only $300 at this point, and cheap resin like Makerjuice as well. It is quite a leap from just a couple years ago where everything was several times more expensive.

>>54880636
Bowling trophies for gaming is fucking stupid. How do they expect people to transport it?

>>54880714
They don't. They are easier to market and sell however so it works out for them in the end.

>>54880732
I bloody hate it. I'm sick of hyper detailed models with no personality. I miss old chaos stuff from GW, it oozed character.

>>54879913
Have you got pics of your 2mm? I've recently started making tokens for a scaled down "travel WHFB" similar to how units were represented in old WD magazine, and am interested in how to do similar for other game systems.

Anyone here have links to the LOTR SBG faction books?

>>54882279
check the pdf share thread

>>54877339
>Shootaboy.

Shootaboyz're 'ard as nails, dey iz

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>>54881018
>Have you got pics of your 2mm?
I'm literally just printing off counters from the Zhodani Base Traveller blog's generators.
> http://zho.berka.com/stuff/generators/
Check the "Unit Counter" and "tank/heavy weapon counter" stuff. Print, fold, and drop them into a 25mm hexbase or squarebase. You can cut pockets in them for micro-dice. I've even used them in Micro Armor games as "sensor returns" - just use the symbology without any number lines and replace 'em with the appropriate models once people hit the right sensor ranges.
I use terrain, ships, and armor models as appropriate for the scenario - but 2mm infantry just isn't fucking worth it.
You can also use the Battletech "Battleforce" counter sets (see attached) the same way. BForce is theoretically a 2mm game, but Catalyst only made about fifty models before realizing it was an incredibly bad idea. you can still pick 'em up for a song from Iron Wind Metals if you have a need for some 2mm mecha.

>>54876752
>Have you tried getting through a season of regular play (and travel) with those skinny ass malifaux minis? They break constantly.
Ham hands and sausage fingers detected.

>>54874850
There's a reason people use 3mm for stuff that has actual detail.

>>54880826
>I miss old chaos stuff from GW, it oozed character.
TBF the old pewter monstrous creatures were no picnic to transport either. I don't think there's enough pinning material, resin and glue on the planet to hold a chaos dragon together permanently.

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>>54883421

So, what's the verdict on the game of thrones kickstarter? The troops look interesting enough if a bit un-dynamic, but the characters to me just lack... character. Looking at how some people on the net converted personalities the CMON ones just look like rank and files sergeants.

>>54885093
>>54875606

>>54885093
I like the style of the miniatures, but I have terrible experiences with the material they are using. I'm holding off until release and then I'll maybe pick up a box or two.

>>54883412
Awesome, thanks.

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>>54880826
>I miss old chaos stuff from GW, it oozed character.

There's just something about digital sculpts versus hand sculpts that's not quite the same.

This may just be my own personal taste talking, Kev Adams is a golden god.

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>>54885804

Kev Adams is the Goblinmaster, what a legend.

He looked well at the Oldhammer weekend recently, considering he nearly got beaten to death a couple of years ago.

>>54885850
> Michael Perry gets his arm blown off by a cannon, keeps on sculpting.
> Kev Adams gets beaten to shit in a home invasion, keeps on sculpting.

Damn, they don't make sculptors like they used to.

>>54885850
Did you attend BOYL as well?

What games did you take part in, it's possible we played something together.

>>54885804
>There's just something about digital sculpts versus hand sculpts that's not quite the same.
This is the same old argument as with Digital Art and Traditional Art.
It's easy to produce synthetic looking (read crappy) high quality digital art (models) because of the tools. If you use lazy gradients, copy + paste and the likes, it ends up looking soulless and synthetic. The same goes for models. If you just flip and reuse parts, leave surfaces flat and polished instead of making them rough and organic and spend no though on composition or positioning, it's easy to end up with a highly detailed yet shitty looking miniature. GOOD digital sculpts don't have that problem. The best example for this is the GW giant vs their later giant-ass monsters.

>>54885804
>Kev Adams is a goblin green god.

>>54835997
Why do people like blower tanks? They're retarded and look retarded.

>>54885850
Not to go off topic but.

How safe is nottingham? I wouldn't mind attending an oldhammer event but there's no way in hell I'm going near a major town in the UK without very good reason at this point.

>>54887110
You also missed the obvious. Now every kit needs to be a multipart kit that links with other kits they are hugely limited in what poses they can make. Even unique models have to fit that rough style to fit in with the rest of the army

>>54887792
>How safe is nottingham?

Its fine, why wouldn't it be fine?

>>54887433
STRONGLY AGREE, tracks are best.

>>54887792
Nottingham is full of MAD CUNTS, watch out for the 40 year old scorchers in the clubs m8 unless you're the legit archbishop of banterbury

>>54887866
Grav tanks can be cool, well designed spider tanks are a best, but tracks are nice. They're easy to do without looking stupid.

>>54887824
As natives decline we're seeing more violence in towns and cities during the day time. My local town is now 70% native and we're seeing acid and knife attacks in broad day light. Chance of getting allah snackbared is increasing. People around here are avoiding the main part of that town now because of it.

Would be fun to enter an Oldhammer painting contest though. Not sure what I would enter but seems like a good excuse to freehand something and use saturated but bright pink and yellow.

>>54887433
There's a lot of godawful milsf out there, it's not surprising people latch on to the half-decent stuff.

I still really prefer tracks, and am annoyed that most of Brigade's cool 6mm tanks are some weird grav/hover/bullshit instead.

>>54888255
lol

>>54888255
Dumb /pol/poster

>>54888366
Very dumb, so dumb I avoid a town that's seeing multiple people stabbed a day on the street.

How about that Frostgrave am I right guys? Best /awg/ and skirmish game of 2016

>>54888255
the heck do you live

>>54888409
>Very dumb, so dumb I avoid a town that's seeing multiple people stabbed a day on the street.

M8, if you think casual violence hasn't always been a thing in the UK you haven't been paying attention.

If anything its been declining over the past couple decades.

>>54888448
Incorrect. The reporting of it has been declining, some "victim groups" are more equal than others. But this is getting off topic.

Lets discuss why Frostgrave has the best wizard design in any miniature game ever

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>>54887792

>How safe is nottingham? I wouldn't mind attending an oldhammer event but there's no way in hell I'm going near a major town in the UK without very good reason at this point.

Aha. Get to fuck, you absolute smackhead.

>>54888448
>tfw longsword rampages are still a thing

>>54889062
... what?

>>54889554

>there's no way in hell I'm going near a major town in the UK without very good reason at this point.

I can't imagine being this much of an total fanny over whatever perceptions you have of modern urban Britain.

>>54889691
>fanny
Ooh ooh I know this one! It's British slang for 'pussy' or 'vagina'. It's funny because here in amerifat a fanny is your butt.

>>54887792
Fearful of Robin of the Hood and his band of Merry Men?

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>>54889837

>>54889837

Cause you can't spell slaughter without the laughter.

>>54889691
I have no idea what you're talking about. I simply asked what you meant by
>Aha. Get to fuck, you absolute smackhead.
because that is not a coherent set of words.

>>54890015
You seriously have trouble reading that?

"Get fucked, you absolute smackhead"

>>54890036
"Get to fuck" isn't a thing where I'm from. Not sure about whatever backwards-ass place you live in.

>>54890015
>>54890046
I'd recommend not going to Scotland.

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>>54890123
I wasn't planning to.

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>>54889062
Did you know Duncan hates making those videos? Every video is Base coat, ink and then highlight with different names. He is utterly sick of it and hates doing them but that's his job so he has to do it. He doesn't tell the fans this but when he talks to other professional painters he's open about it. It's soul destroying to do the same thing over and over and have to sound upbeat and excited for it.

>>54889837
more like Abdul and his band of peace.

>>54890015
Smackhead = stupid drug addict

>>54890186
>Did you know Duncan hates making those videos? Every video is Base coat, ink and then highlight with different names. He is utterly sick of it and hates doing them but that's his job so he has to do it. He doesn't tell the fans this but when he talks to other professional painters he's open about it. It's soul destroying to do the same thing over and over and have to sound upbeat and excited for it.

>implying painting without a camera around would be any different

>>54890186
>but when he talks to other professional painters he's open about it
Source?

>>54890244
Kris from Mini wargaming.

>>54890435
>>54890449
>>54890478
>>54890495
the fuck is going on?
You sure you are in the right thread?

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>>54875602
Malifaux have a couple.
Or three, actually.

>>54877387
>>54878177
Magnets in the base on a metal tray.
A couple of dudes at the FLGS have done it, say it works wonderfully.
I'm going to do it soon.
Most game nights I'm not bringing more than twenty models total, extremely rarely more than thirty, so two-layer case with metal shelves will sort that.
Folks even 'stand' them upside down, so each layer has people standing on the floor and ceiling, but that seems needlessly risky.

If you're going to spend a fiver per model, then it makes sense to spend a tenner on your collection transporting them safely.

>>54890532
Doctor faust has a video on that. Cookie trays are good.

What models would you guys use for skirmish gaming in the Ghost in the Shell setting?
The manga/anime, not the shitty movie

>>54890665
Infinity, definitely. Reaper has a few decent ones though.

Fuck you, I thought the movie was decent, and I am a fan of the original movie, shows, and manga.

>>54890665
The movie was fairly decent actually. I haven't seen the anime in over a decade now, but from what I recall it was pretty close in a lot of respects. Some stuff even almost 1:1.

Anyway check Hasslefree. He has got the major and batou at the very least.

>>54890705
I also forgot hasslefree miniatures has some minis inspired by the gits original animated movie and series

>>54890743
>>54890739
Checking the Hasslefree site right now. Thanks!

>>54890743
>>54890739
Can't seem to find the GitS stuff on Hasslefree, or I'm just missing it. Do you know what they call the minis on there?

>>54890990
http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?category=sci%252dfi-%26%0D%0Aweird-war~resin-sci%252dfi

>>54891119
Thanks mate

>>54891148
Thats really all they have though. Like I said Infinity's entire miniature line is pretty much anime cyberpunk. And reaper has some good alternatives in their chronoscope line.

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>>54890990
If you just want to fight in the setting and are not necessarily looking for the characters from the film you could also check out Human Interface.

Human Interface and Infinity minis should look pretty much alright next to each other. The HF stuff varies a little depending on the sculpt/time they were made, but in general HF works with Infinity too.

>>54891189
Ill check out Infinity later. But I try to only get metal minis nowadays.

>>54891418
Infinity is all metal, bro. Also reaper is metal as well. You don't have to get their bones plastics.

>>54891516
Their newer stuff is plastic isn't it?

>>54891689
Who do you mean?
The only company of the tree mentioned that does plastic at all is Reaper afaik. But their Bones stuff is pretty clearly labeled.

>>54891844
infinity has plastic starter sets no?

>>54891887
No.
They got two at the moment, Ice Storm and Red Veil, they got minis from different factions, but they are all metal.

>>54891956
Awesome. I like metal more

>>54891516
Awesome thanks dude

>>54890705
>>54891392
Which Infinity "faction" would you say is the most reminiscent of GitS?

>>54887792
According to a quick google search, it's slightly more unsafe than other cities in the Nottingham area, but about average for a city in the UK. It's has affluent areas but is the 8th most deprived city in the UK and so has some poorer areas you should avoid, notably Bridge, St Ann's, Arboretum, Radford and Park, and Berridge.

>>54893910
Thanks man.

Maybe I'll see if I can meet some bros on the oldhammer forum and maybe head to next years event as a group if it's in a good area

>>54893988
BOYL isn't actually held in Nottingham, it's held a good while outside the city, near East Stoke.

>>54893687
Aleph is all robots and shit. Some of the models wouldn't work, bit a fair amount would fit pretty well.

>>54867598
seconding this

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>>54890665
>What models would you guys use for skirmish gaming in the Ghost in the Shell setting?
In addition to the Hasslefree models, you can pick up some ~25mm Tachikomas (three of them) with the Jigabachi AFV kit from SAC Second Gig. Unfortunately they're a little small, and the kit runs ~$60. I've seen phone charms in about the right scale kicking around, but no Fuchikomas. You can also get 1/60 garage kits of the Spider Tank from the original movie or the upgrade from SAC, but both of 'em are pretty damned expensive these days.

Ground Zero Games has several 25mm Shirow-inspired models, including a couple variants of Briarios and Knute Deunan (Appleseed and GitS are set in the same world, although GitS post-dates Appleseed). GZG also has Sexaroids, AD Police, and hardsuits from BGC, the M-66 combat android, and the masked chick from Dominion Tank Police scattered around their character line. Sculpts are a little small, and a lot of them are.. pretty old. Still the only place you can find some of them though. Quality is all over the place and he doesn't put images for a bunch of them on the site.

>>54889837
More like Robbing Hood.

>>54894583
Do you think those GZG Police minis would look ok next to 28mm stuff like the Hasslefree Major?

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>>54890665
Urban War Viridians make pretty good animu-style faceless future soldiers. They're almost exactly the same as the bad guys from Jin-Roh, for example.

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>>54894767
They'll be a bit short next to Batou, but who isn't? I don't own both models myself, unfortunately. HF minis tend to be shorter and more gracile than most, though (see pic; the white metal stuff is HF, while the rest are a mix of Reaper, GW, and the new D&D shit). Ground Zero Games stuff lines up pretty well with the Wargames Foundry lines, so based on what I >do< have they ought to look fine from arms-length.

I have Batou, "Harbey" (gonna be a Boma conversion) and the Major on order from Hasslefree next month for my birthday. I'm also trying to swing the Dirty Pair, Appleseed, and some of the BGC models from Ground Zero in the same set of orders; with any luck, we'll have pix by late September.

I apologize for the shite phone-photo, will dig out my lightbox for next thread.

>>54894767
GZG's stuff is 25mm scale, so it will look a bit slight.

File: SAM_4442.jpg (4MB, 3986x2651px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3986x2651px

>>54894767
I have some of GZGs stuff and can confirm >>54894986, it is notably smaller than standard 28mm.

As another option, there are Macrocosm's Colony Defense Force.

>>54894968
Thanks for the info man. Helps a bunch. Happy birthday too. You should post your GitS stuff here when you get it painted.