/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54778490
You can find those for most birds, though. Owls aren't unique. But on your problem with owls not being creepy:

Imagine, for a moment, that you went out into the bush with a torch. It's like 0230, dead quiet. Shined the torch around. There's thousands of little pinpricks, clustered around. You look at one closely - it's a wolf spider. Those pinpricks of reflected lights are all fucking wolf spiders. That's how it feels to run into an owl in the dark. They're damn near ethereal, the way they fly almost silently. They move in a way that doesn't seem *right*.

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>>54778499
Keep this alt-right trash in your containment board.

>>54778499
Fought a pack of werewolves once. It went down exactly as you assholes said it would. Only it happened a year ago so it didn't scream autism at the time.

Was the Cockroach Pangaean a bro?

>>54778615
>It went down exactly as you assholes said it would

They got sent to the moon?

Haven't been up to date recently, any news on 5th Edition? Any Opinions on what we know so far?

>What are some of your favorite adversaries you've used/faced in your Mage games?
Boredom
That splat is fucking pointless, I'd rather play a Mummy campaign with a politics focus

>>54778823
Or play a Vampire campaign in the Sahara

>>54778811
Garbage fire, basically.

>>54778823
It's only boring because the players turn you off from it, clearly. Grow a backbone.

>>54779001
Why spend time and effort trying to like a game I find terribly boring when I can just play other better templates ?

>>54778547
Not freaked out by wolf spiders either heh, I grew up innawoods. But I get your point. I can see how they have both positive and negative spiritual connotations surrounding them. Barn owls look ghostly at night, they really do, it was quite cool to catch them hanging around the barn and farm.

>>54779001
No, anon, it is just boring.
I play WoD for horror and personal drama, not to project myself into saturday morning cartoon villains

>>54779021
I'd be less freaked out by the little bastards if they didn't manage to appear right next to me as if by magic.

That's probably half of it for Vampires. You see this little bastard out there in the middle of the night, there one moment, gone the next. And then your unlife goes to hell.

>>54778499
<3 the Cult of the Doomsday Clock.

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>>54778580
>take your censorship and intolerance to a place where free expression is less welcome

>>54779089
>Cult of the Doomsday Clock

Fuck yes! Brilliantly creepy, whoever concocted them, damn, just a brilliant idea.

>>54779097
Nigga that girl's midriff is showing. Rightfags would burn her at the stake.

>>54779132
You're thinking of muslims.

>>54779114
My players faces when they realized that time was just gone was priceless.

"ill just look back in time and see who blew the fuck out of this".....NOPE.

>>54779132
I would fuck em. All of em!

>>54779162
conservative muslims are very right wing though

>>54779187
And the only thing right-wingers hate more than leftists are right-wingers of a different flavor

>>54779206
same for left-wingers tbph

>>54779230
different flavors of left-wingers usually tend to work (or at least try to work) together at first, and it's usually the overblown individual egos that bring the whole thing down and create the hate
the result is the same (a bunch of pissed off faggots flinging shit at each other) but the dynamics aren't the same
in any case, pretty pathetic

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Nobody gives a shit what kind of winger you are, you're all awful and whatever political nonsense you're spewing is off topic and stupid. /pol/ is the board for politics, tumblr is the website for whining about /pol/.

>>54779314
Well said, pupper

Back on topic, rather than focusing exclusively on mageshit, what are the best enemies you've faced or put up against your players ?

Also, did you whip up any bloodlines, covenants, agendas, courts or kiths (and equivalents for other splats) you're proud of ?

>>54779337
>rather than focusing exclusively on mageshit
You're going to be disappointed. My favorite enemies I've been up against were the Cult of the Red Word, a cannibal cult masquerading as a pleasant small town that worships an Abyssal entity, from the Boston book.

>>54779041
This.
I've realized why I'm not really a fan of Mage, and it's because the Mage fans and VtM fans are very similar in their desire to throw out the themes of the game (that coincidentally also help keep a lid on abuses) and focus entirely on power mongering.
Even early mage, when you are coming into your own, you only have a couple of tricks that a determined attacker can break down and paranoia is sky high due to knowledge of what is out there and maybe right next to you isn't appreciated here.
>>54779337
I've run W:tF, and Pure are always my favored opponents, but other werewolves as a whole lead to the most electrifying situations.
The worst was the pack being jumped during a rookie initiation gone wrong, and the packs literally hunting each other in a mountain forest for the entire night. The players got surprisingly clever with their feints, but they lost one of their own when the player made a boner and pursued a fleeing pure who slit her throat on a blind slash.

>>54779408
>Cult of the Red Word, a cannibal cult masquerading as a pleasant small town that worships an Abyssal entity, from the Boston book.
You talking about the Prince?

>>54779419
I don't play that much Werewolf but I felt like apart from other wolvies there was not much in terms of worthy opponents for them... What would you use apart from that ?

>>54779431
Yeah.

>>54779452
>what are idigrams?
Horrific alien spirits that would give even master mages a run for their money assuming they aren't a master of spirit

>>54779408
I was more referring to the fact that the thread question was worded to include only Mage
This cult sounds like a cool antagonist though, were those mortals ?
>>54779419
Pretty intense, that must have been a hard scene to manage.

And yes, the problem is the powergaming and the mage supremacy fags
The fact that Ascension and Awakening 1e lend themselves so well to it and that Awakening 2e was explicitly created with those two goals in mind makes it even worse
As for VtM, I never really got into it, for the same reasons
Then again, I'm sure with a good GM, good players and a good group dynamic, you can probably have a good Mage game, but the circumstances are exceedingly difficult to gather

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>>54779472
>alien spirits

>>54779526
How the fuck is Masquerade anything like Mage the Wankening?

Hey DaveB can you give us some more lore on the Gaolers of Ialdabaoth/Ialdabaoth Codex. Both always seemed really cool

>>54779546
Power creep and the obsession of the players about end-game world-rending abilities

>>54779546
they're both superhero games

>>54779540
Well they existed as spirits of concepts no longer around now and then they were flung to the Moon by Father Wolf.

This was fine...until the mortals sent the Apollo 18 up there...then the Idigam came back.

>>54779452
No, other wolves are the most balanced fight in terms of engaging foes; other werewolves are simply great for brutal slug matches, especially with the houserules I made to beef up 1e wolves. Having the 2 opposing pack alphas, both in garou and rocking 11+ strength, dex and stamina, 6+ armor (and using the optional damage soak rules for armor points) and at one point ripping trees and 1k pound bolders out of the ground and throwing them at each other, it was a lot of mean fun.
For a moment, I felt that the game was FINALLY living up to what was advertised, savage, brutality on parade, the unstoppable wolfman challenged only by one of his own.
>the party's alpha won by blowing 4 points on Savage Might, giving him 32 dice to drop on a single attack
>I ruled he broke his fingers, all of them, wrist, and a bone in his forearm, but he damn near killed the pure alpha
>the pure alpha survived only because his pack immediately pulled together to bail him out and bargained with a *REDACTED* to heal him
>a month later, I gunned down the party alpha with a sniper from 200 yards, silver rounds
>still feel bad about that, BUT I TOLD HIM TO SURRENDER
>I GAVE HIM LIKE 10 CHANCES GODDAMMIT

>>54779629
Damn. That's some conspirationnist dream came true.

>>54779526
>were those mortals ?
Eh, kind of. They were twisted because a part of town (their temple) had become something like an Abyssal verge, and it twisted them. Iirc some of them had things like enhanced strength and durability, and at their very worst they were like humans morphed into an approximation of hounds.

I liked them so much because the whole thing reminded me of a horror mystery novel, with the whole pleasant yet creepy town with an evil secret thing. My character was a mystagogue, and that's how we usually got messed up with them. We would go with the Censor to find the shards, and more often than not the cult would be there too. They weren't terribly dangerous, but we didn't always come out unscathed and the way my friend described them and played them, it was always an experience.

>>54779526
The red word cult are all cannibal sleepwalkers trying to piece together an alternate time line to make it manifest. In this alternate timeline cannibalism is revered and they will be the nobility.

They range from hillbillies to uber rich.

>>54779655
>>54779651
Neat.
How well do you think they'd scale if included in a Demon, Changeling or Vampire game ?
Would they be too much for mortal PCs ?

>>54779546
Both Masquerade and Ascension went up to 10 dots in their respective Disciplines / Spheres

Vampire did it first, with world eating Antediluvians and the obvious Caine
Mage came next, with even more ludicrous capabilities bordering on universal levels.

Naturally, this caused a great stigma among the two fan-bases.
The Magefags n' Vampirefags will never admit it, but, they have more in common than they realize.

Mage fans are still *slightly* worse, in my opinion.

>>54779337
There was that one blue guy in Changeling
Nice to hang around with, very charismatic but a tad incoherent in what he asked from his loved ones.

I remember he had a room full of animated body parts from his former wives.

>>54779647
Also they all have strange goals, like Lul'Aya wanting to put it in Luna's ass.

>>54779651
>My character was a mystagogue, and that's how we usually got messed up with them. We would go with the Censor to find the shards, and more often than not the cult would be there too.

That's Khonsu's, the new Obrimos Mystagogue Censor signature character's, original story in the Mage fiction

>>54779731
That is a weird goal.
What do they look like ? What are their abilities ?

>>54779702
They are basically mortals, the advantage they have is numbers. One of the scariest thing they are able to do is if they consume people inside their "temple" that person gets forgotten about, everybody forgets they existed. They suffer from a malady that eventually turns them into weird fang toothed hound like things, which the cult revere but use as guards.

Its hard to "fight" against an entire town were everybody is a cannibal and nobody even remembers exists (did i mention that). So they get to practice cannabalism fairly openly.

>>54779731
Lul'Aya is a hero and I would follow them into battle. Moonfuckers are still here, btw.

>>54779731
>wanting to lustily, violently sodomize a crazy bitch (who will probably like it) until she is leaking your hot, thick essence from at least 3 holes is strange
No, anon, that is my goddamn fetish, and now I'm going to fap to nuns in latex.

>>54779769
Oh man that is some twisted shit right there
I am definitely going to throw my players in this mess, regardless of the campaign they're playing
You said they were in the Boston book for Mage ? 1e I suppose ?

>>54779782

>>17618332

>>54779743
Yeah, that was him. He was a cool dude.

>>54779794
Boston Unveiled, yeah.

>>54779805
>Yeah, that was him. He was a cool dude

You wrote Khonsu or your PC was the character upon whom he was based???

>>54779755
>What do they look like ? What are their abilities ?
These vary from Idigam to Idigam (unless they coalesce they look like formless multi-colored blobs.).

But they all have a ridiculously powerful ability to Essence Shaping to make Claimed, Hosts or other servants.

Yet with an Idigams specific Goal Based restrictions most of these make sense. Lul'Aya for example wanted to be a copy of Father Wolf to get with Luna, he knew that Father Wolf battled things that disrupted the Shadow and the Flesh...so he uses his Essence Shaping to make things that will disrupt these by their very existence so he can then kill them.

Also he never really go the look right. He wanted to look like Father Wolf, a great and mighty lupine, but his idigam nature to "improve" got the better of him. Instead he looks like a giant wolf with, among other things, barbed tentacles for fur, an impossibly long jaw filled with teeth from beginning to end, exposed musculature, and occasional other "improvements" if he feels like it.

>>54779755
Whatever they want to look like, and honestly, whatever they want to do. They're pretty monstrous, and come with a few unique abilities. Hit up the Werewolf 2e book.

>>54779834
No, he wasn't my PC at all. We was an NPC and we traveled with him to find the shards, since his own cabal had been wiped out. The Nemean lent our Cabal to him through me, probably trying to get us killed off since all but one of was were newcomers to the Consilium, and of course stirring things up, as players tend to do.

>forsaken has a bit about a crazy spirit want to fuck Luna in the ass
wtf I like Werewolf now

>>54779782
>nuns in latex
I see you are a gentleman and scholar

>>54779816
Thank you, my nizzle

>>54779880
So im my campaign, a scelesti master moros found out about the underworld place called the "Athenaum" were everything ever written and no written is held. He figured it would contain an entire full copy history of the prince of 100,000 leaves timeline and went to go find it, Que a race through multiple dead dominions with the pc's hot on his heels. Only to discover that somebody had blown the fuck out of it ages ago and destroyed an entire wing of the athenaum and caused the rule that no magic was permitted inside it.

It was a good excuse for a trip to the underworld for my mage players and they were genuinely scared that if he got his hands on a complete history and made it back to the material plane then the timeline would assert itself.

>>54779899
You can like Werewolf all you want

Just be wary of its players

>>54779867
Also some of them have really wonky Weaknesses.

Gamugur is injured by blessed wine. Gifmalu Igizalag really doesn't like people who are one fire and in pain (the two of them together is important, just fire or pain won't work), The Breeder died with the Unihar, Umum Wabalu Damu is hurt by people infected with Yellow Fever, Zul Sanak is vulnerable to the power of love, Lu’im Iduth has to obey people carrying bits of Apollo 15, Ansar-zalag can only be harmed by rocks from the Moruroa Atoll and Gagh-Azur is hurt by coral.

>>54780005
What do you do?
"I claw it"?
That doesnt work, what next?
"I claw it again"
ok so that fails, what do you do next?
"I claw it again"

Yep avoid them.

>>54779729
Bluebeard ?
Was he a changeling ?

>>54779630
>killing one of Luna's children with silver from a sniper rifle like some beast
I hope you got some serious penalties to your harmony and the local spirits should all hate you

>>54780100
What is this harmony stuff? You can't kill other werewolves?

>>54780100
tfw woofs have to fear sniper rifles. Poor woofs.

>>54780127
Wolves have to balance their spiritual and physical sides. Drift too much to the spirit and you become one. Too much physical and you won't be able to enter the shadow.
>>54780134
So does every mage that doesn't have a force field up and active

>>54780086
You guessed right !
He was a weakened True Fae living in the Hedge, capturing human women to marry them, offering them a perfect life and his unconditionnal love.

And then the story of the cabinet key etc...

My group (I was GMing) lived in a Changeling community that had four Courts and Kings, the Spring King being wed to a human woman (she knew about the Changelings). Bluebeard made the mistake of taking his wife hostage and my group was sent to apply in the recruitment campaign his servants had in the Goblin Market for people to prepare the marriage.

Unfortunately, they got stuck in his lair because most of his servants were Changelings that were pretty happy about their fate since he was a 'kind' master as long as they didn't disturb his wives.

They had to work with the King's wife to distract the Master and his spies long enough to steal his enchanted carriage and flee. It was a good game.

>>54779452
Idigam, ridden, spirits gone awry..

>>54780227

Oh you sweet summer child.

Not true, matter mage can have silly armour, which is immune to AP.
Time mage wont get surprised.
mage armour that adds to defence vs firearms, gluck with your chance dice?
etc etc etc. So many ways a sniper rifle isnt a problem for a prepped mage.

>>54780315
>muh prepped mage
Kill yourself kid

>>54778499
What are the biggest problems with White Wolf games? Why is there so much hate in /tg/ about WW RPGs?

>>54780340
Anon every Mage has 9 Gnosis, infinite Mana and 10 dots in every Arcana right out of chargen, you know how this works. They also have the ST give them all his notes so they can prep for everything.
It's like you don't even play Mage, seriously.

>>54780395
You really don't have to go to such extremes. Any Mage who has an inkling that they might be in some kind of danger could use low level Time or Fate spells to probe for what kind it could be, so they could prepare accordingly. Even if they themselves don't have 1-2 dots in Time or Fate, there's a good chance one of their Cabalmates does. You also don't need an active Force field to defend from a sniper. Matter can turn your clothes to armor. Space can, well, warp Space so that things travel around you. Mind can make you imperceptible, or be perceived as someone else. Fate can make you so lucky a bird will poop on the sniper right before he fires, causing him to flinch and make the bullet stray wildly off course. You could hang spells and give them conditional triggers with Fate, so that you'll have a protective spell up the instant you're fired upon. There are more ways.

You don't even need to know your in danger to prepare like this. You just need to think you might be.

>>54779726
It doesn't help that Masters of the Art was just a shitty book, even outside of the Crunch. Like, I kind of get what they were going for, but the game breaks down almost completely at that point unless you're awesome, like Imperial Mysteries. Even then, the reason IM worked was because magic fundamentally changes in how it functions at that level power level.

>>54780005
Why?
>>54780100
You think it was another werewolf did it?
It Was TFV
>>54780342
The biggest problems is it's initial view which has stuck as being a DRAMA game for DEEP, ANGSTY people/goths.
It's earlier wacked out mechanics hurt it as well, and again, is a view that is kept even if it does't apply.

>>54780342
>What are the biggest problems with White Wolf games?
Being chained to a shitty dicepool system.
>Why is there so much hate in /tg/ about WW RPGs?
Because there were several high-profile incidents involving WW's products and crazy people flipping out and murdering others in the 90s. It attracted try-hards and edgemasters who then went on to shit the game up for a while, they were then followed by a group of tumblr idiots who are currently trying to use the game as a vehicle for many of their political views.

>>54780037
>What do you do?
>"I claw it"?
>That doesnt work, what next?
>"I claw it again"
>ok so that fails, what do you do next?
>"I claw it again"


That's offensive.

Sometimes woofs will also try to bite it.

>>54780342
In /tg/? There really isn't. These threads have a few trolls. People just don't care enough about WW games aside from wanting something to point at and mock, because they're perceived as the lowest common denominator. That mostly comes from the larp pictures that turn up sometimes, as well as the constant sidebar politicking and the vascillation in tone between superhero games of owod and the I AM SO SAD WOE IS ME you see in the new.

There's a widespread perception of WW games as being

>>54780634
>90s murders
Really? Do you have any examples?

>>54780658
Or attack with the Klaive, but that's pretty much all three options.

>>54780741
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell
>"Ferrell told people that he was a 500-year-old vampire named Vesago, a character he created for himself after becoming obsessed with the role playing game Vampire: The Masquerade."

I know there were also some inspired by W:tA, but I can't seem to find them at the moment.

>>54779097
Wow, your alt-right board limits speech? Almost like that's why no one likes you.

>>54780005
You mean the ones who are actually playing Thyrsus mages, right?

>>54780488
Oh, so every mage has time or fate spells?

>>54780845
Learn to read 4chan posts, redditor. The poster he was replying to was trying to censor his speech here, and send him elsewhere, he was responding by suggesting that individual would be happier in a less open medium.

>>54781040
>Learn to read 4chan posts, redditor. The poster he was replying to was a /pol/tard trying to stir shit up

Hey I fixed your post for you.

>>54781003
You can't read all that well, can you? Try again, and this time really pay attention to the words.

>>54781003
>>54780395
This why I try to fling out ideas that would make flavourful Mages...Like Rac Shade, the Changing Man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTrdptLRrs

I do this mostly because I think Mage can be a good game if you don't try to go to fast too quickly.

>>54781198
You realise you're being baited, right?

>>54781252
Hard to tell. Some people are indeed that stupid, unfortunately.

>>54780488
You do realize the point of a sniper rifle is to kill someone who isn't aware that they are in danger right? Unless you are saying that a mage taking a walk to buy some groceries has a armored clothes or a warping space bubble around themselves at all time

Am I reading Mage's Withstand right? Someone gets hit in the face with a firebolt, reduce the potency of the bolt by their withstand? Or are combat spells just 'instant damage'?

>>54781388
Direct damage spells arnt withstood, they take stamina/health into account.

>>54781411
Got a page number for me? So much of the rules seem weirdly incomplete, so I'd like to eyeball it and whatever else is on that page.

>>54779731
That's not weird, that's an honorable goal

>>54781430
Just look at all the rank 3-4 damage spells, they dont have a withstand rating. Things like Windstrike, psychic assault, warp, weight of years.

>>54781356
Armored clothes? Maybe. They're regular clothes given the properties of armor, so it would be like a regular jacket, except also able to take the brunt of a bullet. It also wouldn't have to be a bubble, per se. I also don't know why you would want to snipe a random Mage who hasn't done anything to put him in danger, who by doing the act would know he could be in danger because of it, and could then either read his future/fate, have it read for him, or do any of the things I outlined and more that wouldn't take very much effort.

To be perfectly honest with you, if I was a Mage I would definitely go for Mind and every time I got ready to go out in public for an extended period I would either ritually cast Incognito Presence or Impostor and allocate Reach to Duration and Potency. Not out of any powergaming kind of stuff, it would just make me more comfortable.

>>54781468
Also p127 2e mage
>Spells that inflict direct damage with the >Practices of Fraying
>and Unraveling are never Withstood; the >subject’s Stamina is
>lready factored in by virtue of the subject’s Health.

>>54781430
See above

>>54781356
If they can they will, they have indefinite duration spells you know. So one cast and it'll be up until dispelled.

Its not like they need to cast them everytime they leave the house you fucking mongo.

>>54781435
It's also the most normal of the darn Idigam ideals.

That's right, the most normal Idigam is the one whose entire mindset boiled down to him taking one look at Luna and saying to himself "lemme smash".

Other Idigam Squadgoals include eating everything ever and SCIENCE!

>>54781411
Unless you tack on Wards and Signs, anyway. "Hostile" magic.

Rate my one-shot idea.

Sundered World setting (dark eras 1. Neolithic Romania, 5000bce give or take.)

The villagers at the edge of a circle's territory have come requesting help. at first it seemed like Winter was coming too early, but a slow encroaching wave of freezing cold is approaching their livestock and fields. Three cattle have died already, freezing overnight despite the weather being a month too early for even the first snow.

The elders whisper of a story the people used to tell. There were more seasons, and one was feared most of all, 'Biting Cold'.

An aging local Wise knows more. It isn't the season that went away, the Season's very heart was ripped free for the Omphalos stone that binds the local villages. As it died, it vowed to get revenge if its heart was not returned. That was generations ago.

'Biting Cold' is coming for its revenge.

>>54782958
I'd play. Though the summary gives plenty away. Just spring it on your group and let them twig for themselves.

Any experienced Mage: The Ascension players here? I'm new to tabletop (relatively, at least) and am going to be playing the face in a 20th anniversary game. I've found that I always end up playing the same sort of character, so I'm trying to source some cool little magic/character ideas to play. Plus I'm new to MTA.

What're some fun Sphere combinations to focus on? Ideally I'd want to focus on social stuff, considering the rest of the party is either ME FIGHT GOOD or ME CRAFT GOOD. Are there any especially fun backgrounds, merits, flaws, etc?

>>54783036
Yeah if it wasnt a one shot I would just spring it. But I don't want them spending a whole session prepping and designing a solution.

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>>54782958
>Sundered World setting
I already approve.

>>54783046
Correspondance is a lot of fun. You could be the globe-trotting face of the group. Charming, friendly, possibly hiding in the cupboards with a camera while idiot in question does something incriminating..

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>>54783046
>mage: the ascension
Ewwww

>>54783335
This is accurate.

http://theonyxpath.com/revisiting-the-code-hunter-the-vigil/

Was that dude who complained a bunch of threads ago that Hunter is now a game where you hang out with other monsters and then spend all your time crying in your room alone when you're forced to kill them right or wrong? Let's find out, together!

>>54783788
There are bits in the article that suggest it might have been the case, but they've done a rapid 180 and shifted priorities. Or maybe he was full of it. I'm torn as to which. I like that integrity just recognises how 'alive' you are outside of your murder and mayhem related activities, but I can see how that could have very easily become linkin park and neet.

Also:
>A hunter who falls to Integrity 0 is barely recognizable as human anymore, a relentless moteur of violence and obsession

YES. YES.

>>54783788
I don't see any of that here.

This all seems pretty straight forward when it comes to Hunter desu

>gaining power from an obviously monstrous source
>integrity 1 sin

Man, some of these conspiracies must just go out and ask people if they want to buy some beachfront property in alice springs, then recruit the ones who say yes. "Doctor, what will this surgery do?" "We're going to put a supernatural beehive in your arm. I mean, not a supernatural beehive. A regular beehive. With nanomachines on the bees. Totally." "Oh, okay!"

Fucking hell.

>>54783882
>>54783996

For what it's worth, I always figured that dude was full of shit. The only time anyone has ever been right taking shit about a book before it even came out is pretty much Beast, and that was months before the playtest leak.

>>54784040
Yeah that sin caught my eye too. How is like, Cheiron, supposed to function if everyone is risking being a total crazy just by taking endowments.

>>54784229

Loophole: Endowments by Cherion are just scientific applications of supernatural phenomena, making it OK.

Hooking up with a Vamp and being a Ghoul to hunt Changelings or something: bad.

Trusting your human doctors to give you a haemoglobin based substance so you can sap a tree for for its restorative properties: perfectly OK.

>>54784229
If I recall correctly, the 1e Compacts&Conspiracies book suggested that most Cheiron agents are treated as disposable mooks and test subjects, the shelf life of a Cheiron hunter is probably not great.

>>54784313
Well yeah, the shelf life of any hunter is piss poor. But that is still bad mechanics to say they would roll against an int 1 sin every time they took powers. Probably will be explained like the anon above you said.

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>TFW integrity is now shadowrun soul mechanic

>>54784533
Why are you acting surprised when all a fucking vampire has to do is survive getting shot or hit by a car to lose humanity. Fucking shit mechanics

>>54784666
well you're a monster why do you deserve humanity?

>>54784723
At least they dropped the "you are exactly what you were at the moment of death" bullshit. "I was embraced 2000 years ago at the age of 18. Now I'm incapable of looking at anything except as an 18 year old! Wheeee!"

>all a fucking vampire has to do is survive getting shot or hit by a car to lose humanity
Nigga what ?

>>54784806
If you want to spend the blood and willpower go ahead. but why play a 2000year old 18yr?
>teenage cringe

>>54784837
>humanity
Is not about being a good person. It's about how human you trick yourself into believing you still are a person. At the high levels taking a shot dings. At the low levels, you really got to work to ding the meter

>>54778580
>>54780845
>>54781067
go back to the OPP Forums where your kind belongs

>>54783788
have heroes, dream warriors, Plain etc Dread Powers? Or are their abilities similar enough to that of Hunters?

>>54783996
The only thing I don't like really is that seeing a new kind of monster is a breaking point even for high integrity characters.

>>54785020
>go back to the OPP Forums where your kind belongs
I don't know what that means but I saw you included me in the reply list

If you really don't understand that this poster >>54778580 was just trying to start shit, or at best was making a very lame attempt at a joke, you're literally retarded.

>>54785039

Anything that is not a Hunter template is a being with Dread Powers. You're not really supposed to be playing Hunter with the other splats as they are written, unless you like playing Hunter on Super Hard Mode and are rich enough/piratey enough to get all the books.

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>>54785283

>>54784878
Reading comprehension, please attain some

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>>54785436
Hey man it's your fantasy, not mine. What you do in your bathroom is your business

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We already have Dracula, Wolf-Man, Mummy, and Frankenstein. But I want to roleplay as Gill-man. What do?

>>54785588
official?
Beast
Some fucked up changing breed
Some fucked up Gangrel
Non Official
Siren?

>>54785087
>Underestimating how fucking retarded people are.
>Forgetting that Poe's Law is the default here and that no matter how outlandish something sounds, the person may in fact, really be that stupid.
Anon you have too much faith in people here.

>>54785588
Changeling.

>>54785634
Beast or changeling.

Don't pull out the fan splats. We are all better than that.

>>54785588
Leviathan: The Tempest was literately made for this. But add in some Babylonian and Cthulhu mythos.

>>54785782
So... Beast.

>>54779337
>Also, did you whip up any bloodlines, covenants, agendas, courts or kiths (and equivalents for other splats) you're proud of ?
I mad a Changeling entitlement about bonding with your hedge beast companion and eventually fusing with them to basically become a true fae.

>>54778499
>What are some of your favorite adversaries you've used/faced in your Mage games?
Hard to say, actually. I really loved my Obrimos Banisher, who alone made LA hunters an threat to local mages by providing them with magic detection, anti-magic shields and kinetic shields. But I also loved my Abyssal anti-spirit, who force-fed other spirits with tainted Essence and managed to completely fuck up ecosystem of Seattle before party and local Consilium managed to find his Ban and send fucker back into the Abyss. I also had some pretty good Seers.

In one of the first games I ever ran, two new mages had to fight an established Promethean. They ended up freaking the Frankenstein out with the old hairspray flamethrower before he almost bear hugged one of them to death.

Was glorious.

>>54786111
>They ended up freaking the Frankenstein out with the old hairspray flamethrower
This only worked because the mentality of Steins is, well...fire bad.

Given that most of their experiences come from having the fire liberally applied to their face, it's quite an accurate assumption.

>>54782958
I'd play it !
Which splat ?

>>54786111
>Not having a kinetic shield
And you call yourself wise

>>54782958
Are you going to constantly quote game of thrones?

>>54786829
...Hodor!

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>>54786923

>>54786617
Sundered World is Mage and Werewolf naturally. I don't think I will need to allow much more than that, but I figure anything 2E would probably be functional (except Mummies, who canon don't exist in that time period).

>>54786829
Well now the agent spirits of Biting Cold are going to be called 'White Walkers'.

I hope you're happy with yourself.

>>54787523
exceedingly

>>54780008
An important note. Gamugur - the one injured by blessed wine, is impersonating an Angel in a church. Gifmalu Igizalag, is a Spirit version of Dr. Mengele, but has burning people as a Ban. They all have handicaps like that. When an Idigam coalesces, which means assuming a permanent form, their Ban and Babe are based on their surroundings and what purpose they had in mind.

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Mages don't sound too tough after I scare the soul right out of their bodies

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>>54778499
The current 'antagonists' of my Mage: the Ascension campaign.

>Laoban Cao Cao, otherwise known as simply Boss Cao. A tall intimidating man who lives in the fictional city of Los Santander in SoCal where the game takes place. He lives in the city's Asian district, where lesser Akashic Effects are coincidental. He is the leader of the Huángsè Lóng, a gang of unawakened thugs with Wuxia powers [though he himself is Akashic], which until recently was at war with the Yakuza's own sorcerer-thugs, until he slaughtered most of them singlehandedly during the Night of a Hundred Broken Swords.

>Agent Jonas Jones, Technocratic Union. A shameless Expy of Agent K from Men in Black, he's an ex-FBI WW2 veteran who holds control over most Technocratic operations in California and possibly beyond. Appears to be in his mid-40s, is manipulating several of the players.

>Nicolas, otherwise known as the Devil of Los Santander. Head of a large vampirized cartel and illegitimate prince of the city. An older hispanic Tremere who dresses in a white suit, and speaks in a slow threatening tone. No match for the PCs in terms of raw power but has so many mooks he's thus far managed to keep the PCs at arms length until last session, when they cornered him in his base of operations, an abandoned Void Engineer facility at the bottom of the ocean.

>Arthur Pendragon, the returning reincarnation of the King of the Britons, seeking the PCs aid to restoring Excalibur to working condition so he can use its powers to conquer Los Santander and from there the Technocracy.

[Cont]

>>54788262
>The Stranger: An extremely powerful mage with pseudo-Hermetic Arts who dresses in a simple green robe, and a mantle and hood of blue imbedded with stars, carrying a wooden staff. The Hermetic Time Magus of the party met him in the far future after Paradox flung him temporarily into a scene of the city in flames with the sky literally shattered overhead. Name and motives unknown, the PCs strongly suspect that he is actually Merlin.

>Ummu-Hubur: A powerful Nephandi patron, a Kaiju which awoke when Avalon was ferried across the Pacific Ocean, it is in fact the Babylonian goddess Tiamet and the biblical Leviathan, a great massive sea serpent. The threat of Paradox keeps it out at sea, far where anyone can see.

>Ahriman bani Bonisagus: A young Hermetic prodigy in his early thirties. Looks alot like Doctor Strange and lives in a mansion outside the city. The party's patron, sort of. He intends to capture the restored Excalibur and Avalon and take it before the Council of Nine rather then let Arthur use it to conquer the city, or worse let the Technocrats get it.

>Experiment 01: Otherwise known as the Lady of Los Santander, it is a minor villain inside Nicolas' base, it is the reason the facility was abandoned. Is basically the Thing, only with a hive mind. The PCs are currently fighting its main offshoot, a gigantic Gravemind-esq abomination.

Its marginally less of a clusterfuck then it sounds.

>>54788208
Mages can still cast magic without souls.

>>54788337
>muh-h-h splat isn't overpowered I s-s-swear!!!

>>54788702
no one but magefags fucking cares about powerlevels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JUlXh7sP8

Is /wodg/ living in a world of darkness?

>>54788787
imagine listening to dubstep and liking it

that'd be really fucked up

>>54788873

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWP1ovHV1BI

>>54788702
Of course you can wind up with the Thrall condition if you go long enough without one and your Wisdom hits 0, where you'll be a husk, no agency, no magic, no nothing. All spells you cast while soulless will incur Paradox, which you're unable to contain. The Paradox roll also has the Rote quality. You can't just ignore being soulless either. For a human or a Mage, it makes you desperate to reaffirm your sense of self.

>>54778499
Ar'shklathyss, the abyssal anti-thesis of hatred and fear. A well-meaning cabal of Scelesti (mostly former Libertines) summoned parts of it into the Fallen World, where it reached the home city of the player characters. People affected by Ar'shklathyss would become Nurglite-like entities, hosting hundreds of diseases and dangerous bacterias (because they so loved these little darlings), while attracting several dangerous spirit that would feed on the aftermaths of the Afflicted. Showed that everything from the Abyss, as benign as it may sound, is dangerous and wrong.

>>54785856
weak bait, Anon

>>54780488
Nobody plays mage. It's just retards pretending that it's a real game when it's just a vastly inferior clone of better games.

>>54789857
That's your opinion, which you are totally entitled to.

People keep forgetting that celerity can one shot mages without time to react

Is there even a point in posting here anymore

>>54790134
Tired bait. Mage Armor is a reflexive attainment now, and Celerity explicitly can't interrupt reflexive actions. Although a Mage with Time Sight active can detect a reflexive action about to happen and can act to preempt it, even though they don't know what the action will be.

Mages are better at preempting things than even vampires with super speed.

>>54790479
not really, except to earn (you)s

>>54790482
>Although a Mage with Time Sight active can detect a reflexive action about to happen and can act to preempt it
Can you really, though?

>Mages are better at preempting things than even vampires with super speed.
Yeah, if they're constantly prepared. Which is never the case.

>>54780488

Timmy the Acanthus wants to join the legacy of his dreams.

Timmy casts divination "Were will I meet the teacher I want?"
>Club coin, later tonight, she sees you when the ambulance carries you off.

Timmy is concerned "Will someone make an attempt at my life?"
>Yes, Jason the Hipster will stab you in the kidney as soon as that one song plays.

Timmy starts getting paranoid, "Why would Jason want to kill me?"
>That has nothing to do with the future, you twat.

Timmy starts asking a lot of questions. If the song doesn't play, then what? IF I don't go tonight will I still see her? If I come armed to the teeth with spells or guns what will happen? If I tell her will she help me? Would it hurt my chances if I bring my whole cable? Will I survive the attack? Could I win?
>If the song doesn't play he will bring a gun and friends, you will be electrocuted to death outside the building.
>If you don't go tonight you will see her next in a weeks time, when she is showing off her new student.
>If you come armed she will not meet with you.
>If you contact her she will be suspicious of you, her help will be negligible and the results of the attack will be the same.
>if your whole cable comes you will not meet Jason or your teacher.
>You will survive the attack and make it to the free clinic alive.
>yes

Timmy is starting to get worried. He knows he can't ask divination how he might be electrocuted to death, why his dream teacher wouldn't really help him, who her new student will be(he could ask if he would be her new student) or why bringing friends would ruin everything. So now Timmy has a choice, he can go tonight and meet with his dream teacher, face Jason the hipster alone and unarmed with nothing but his own magical prowess or he can wait, and try and change the future to either get with his teacher before she gets her new student or use all his social skills to undermined this new student.

He has choices.

>>54790616
Fucking Timmy.

>>54790616
Time 1 is telling Timmy that he's a grade A fucktard.

Jesus, the average Mage is never going to go through even a fraction of that.
I wouldn't be surprised if a Fate witch cursed him beforehand.

>>54790482
Mage sight can't tell reflexive actions

>>54790606
>Can you really, though?
2e p.91
"When a character is about to act, even with a reflexive
action, a mage watching with Time Sight is aware of it (if not
what that action will be), and may preempt it if he is able."
Yes.

>Yeah, if they're constantly prepared. Which is never the case.
Preparation actually isn't such a huge necessity for Mages. Of course it helps. It helps a lot, but there's still plenty they can do without it. You don't need to be constantly prepared to activate Time Mage Sight at the start of a conflict, which is a reflexive action if you have it as Ruling or instant if you don't. And while it puts a -2 modifier on all actions unrelated to using or perceiving magic. Meaning you can still use magic just fine. That's on page 92.

An Acanthus can preempt far better than any vampire with Celerity. Have you read Acceleration? That on top of Time Mage Sight? It would be awful.

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>>54790796

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>>54778499
I'm unironically DM for a Nazi Vampire campaign, the players are 'supersolders' created by evil nazi superscience using stolen vitae and a raided tremere library.
They betrayed and killed the only guy in the group who had moral reservations about this and went full holocaust.
Needless to say, the game is going in a different direction than I expected.

>>54790796
I love it when people try to trash talk mages and get rektd.

>>54791139
a better direction.

>>54790744
Fate curse, a bunch of spirits working against him, and a broken Changeling contract he really should've seen coming. Plus, he dinged the car of pretty much every other Mage in the city, and he doesn't have Fate or Spirit himself, so it's not getting better any time soon.

Really, it's a wonder he's still alive.

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>>54791194
They reconciled with the doctor who created them (who was supposed to become the BBEG) and now serve to make his secret faction in the Nazi Party more and more powerful. It's working.
For a brief slice of their shenanigans:
>Instead of merely recovering a torpid elder Nosferatu from under Modlin Fortress in Poland dismantled its defenses and called in the BBEG's secret SS army in to capture it
>then assisted him staking his claim to turn it into a field base for his project
>used evidence of one of the player's collaboration with the wehrmacht panzer commander sieging modlin as means to kill the player's character and discredit the commander
>then solidified their stranglehold on the area by killing every single pole in the area
>not just partisans but over 4000 civilians too by burning villages down and shooting anyone who flees
>the doctor then used that space to expand his fortifications and even add an airfield
>basically spurned the wehrmacht and drove a further divide between them and the SS
>while making the Blutsol program so much stronger in the process
My players are all around 3 humanity right now and one of them has spent a shitload of xp to not wassail.

>>54790905
>mage reflexively turns on mage sight
>vampire reflexively uses celerity

Sorry, the vampire kills the mage. he can't turn on mage sight AND reflexively intervene at the same time

>>54791689
You can do as many reflexive things as you want at the same time you fucking knob jockey.

>>54791789
No you fucking can't

>>54791689
How does getting the first hit in kill the mage, you still need to get past his kinetic shield and armor (be it mage armor or magic tshirt)

If a fucking woofboy cant claw the mage to death what is your fucking homovamp going to do with a knife?

Glad that is cleared up and nobody needs to reply to you again.

>>54790905
>Have you read Acceleration? That on top of Time Mage Sight? It would be awful.

Wouldn't that mean that Acceleration goes first before Celerity? No CoW needed?

>>54791821
>Also, there are reflexive actions, which take no
>time and do not prevent a character from >performing another
action within a turn,

do not prevent a character from performing another REFLEXIVE action within a turn...

Fuck off and go read the books

>>54791859
No its still a clash.

>>54791821
Another asshole this time a vampfag who doesnt actually know the rules trying to get into a argument with magefags who are known autists about rules and hilarity ensues as the vampfag gets shit on.

>>54791859
I don't think there would be a point in that. Acceleration is already a lot like Mage Sight, I think. It makes you go first before anyone else.

>>54791915
So does celerity, so because both are saying "im first" they clash with the winner being the one who actually does go first.

>>54791931
That's all well and good, if they both have it up. Mage Sight makes you go before even that though. Before the Vampire can even -use- Celerity.

I think that's why Anon assumed no Clash would be needed, because there would be nothing TO Clash.

>>54791964
I think Mage Sight(Time) is thinner than that. If you looked ahead further using one of the Practices, then sure.

>>54791859
I wasn't necessarily talking about just against Celerity. Yeah, as two "go first" powers they would Clash.

>>54791964
All you can do before the vampire even uses celerity is activate your acceleration, then when he activates his celerity that you preempted you'll still get a clash.

You cant go nuhuh i activated acceleration first so no clash, the clash happens when one of you activates either acceleration or celerity and the other has the other one up.

>>54792080
or vice versa..

>>54792080
>You cant go nuhuh i activated acceleration first so no clash
You arguably could. Assuming you're certain dots of Time.

Mage Sight(Time) is more of a way to deal with Reflexive actions and speed-blitzing, I reckon.

>>54792109
An argument you would loose i think because when you activate acceleration first, good job. You still clash with the vampire who activates celerity 3 turns later. Who was there first doesnt matter for the clash, what matters is when the clashing power is activated.

To avoid the clash you'd have to stop the clasher activating the power that clashed. Which you could use time for, but then you could equally use another arcana

>>54792172
I was more talking about using Time to view a character's actions in the future. Foresight..

So wait. If I used Time Mage Sight could I prop up a Kinetic Shield before the Vampire uses Celerity? is that how this works?

>>54792240
I think the assumption is that you already have kinetic shield up.

>>54792253
But what if the mage didn't?

>>54792240
no because casting a kinetic shield takes an action

Time sight allowing you to preempt reflexive stuff is only good with using your own reflexive stuff like mage armour for example

>>54792261
Then your a stupid fucking mage who deserves to get shit on for leaving the house without a kinetic shield up. I mean why would you?

>>54792267
You wouldn't need Mage Sight to help with Mage Armor.

Mage Armor is Reflexive on its own

>>54792240
No. You could perceive the reflexive action, but not what it is, and if you are able, you can prevent it. You could put up your Mage Armor before the vampire attacks, but not cast a Shielding spell. Casting a Shielding spell on the fly isn't all that bright, anyway. Not when you have Mage Armor in a pinch and you could get off a variety of other spells to help you out.

>>54792285
So yeh time sight is pretty useless, there is not much apart from seeing a reflexive action about to take place that you can do that you cant already do with a reflexive action yourself

>>54792323
>So yeh time sight is pretty useless
Not quite. It can tell when they're about to take any kind of action, which isn't always going to be an attack on your person.

How many dots in Time would be needed to even act before Celerity?

I'm not talking Acceleration here, more so being all 'psychic' and knowing about it before it even happens.

>>54792468
Time 3 you can use shifting sands to go back and do shit before the vampire activates celerity and cuk him. But because celerity is reflexive he can just activate it again so you cant really.

>>54792493
>But because celerity is reflexive he can just activate it again so you cant really.

This would imply the Vampire even knows what you're about to do.

>>54792520
Does it?

He only needs to use Celerity when he feels threatened. I don't think he was saying the vampire would be acting first, just that he is still going to start going fast.

>>54792520
You declare an action, the vampires says i reflexively activate celerity, i now go before you. (not read celerity) but thats how acceleration would do it.

>>54792550
Does the Vampire know it's threatened though?

>>54792520
Just read celerity and yes the vampire knows what your about to do.

you declare x, he declares activating celerity and gets to do an action before you.

>>54792639
I assume it can roll to react to an ambush.

>>54792639
From the original scenario, the Vampire came to fight. So if the mage does anything that isn't standing there looking like a derp, it is a threat.

Especially if the vampire knows it is fighting a mage.

>>54792639
Well he gets to see what you are trying to do before he activates celerity and goes before it so probably.

Since when can vampires read mages minds?

>>54792664
Mages can cast spells with literally nothing to demonstrate what they're doing

Legacyfag here.
Anyone got another request for me?

I've also considered writing a documents of Supernal entities statted as per the rules given in the core book.
You know, so people actually some faces they can attribute to the Summoning rules.
But I can also write up stats for requested entities.

>>54792648
Celerity explicitly states the vampire can't defend against attacks it isn't aware of.

Celerity won't help a vampire that's about to be spontaneously combusted.

They don't just 'know' when a mage is about to cast a spell.
Not unless the wizard is waving his hands in the air or something, or if the spell is an actual projectile.

>>54792663
Celerity is not spidey sense, if you get ambushed you dont see it coming. Or you do but you cant take a normal action because surprise

>>54792699
You say im going to toast that vampire, pick up your dice, vampire says i activate celerity and run away (smart vampire). You no longer get to roll your dice to toast a vampire, look like your fucking sleeping for all i care, thats how it works so fuck off.

Fluff it up however you want using ingame terms but thats the game mechanics for you.

Cool, this dumb white room is how many posts in, and what do we have?

The vampire is seemingly still just using one vampire power, celerity.

The mage has two shields, one specifically a kinetic shield. Has enough time dots to go back in time enough to pre-empt the attack, and seemingly enough in another arcana to spontaneously combust the vampire without it being possible to recognize the mage is doing anything.

This is exactly why it is pointless to discuss mage stuff in /wodg/. Mage's gain a dot in an arcana with every reply in the discussion.

>>54792681

meant for you
>You say im going to toast that vampire, pick up your dice, vampire says i activate celerity and run away (smart vampire). You no longer get to roll your dice to toast a vampire, look like your fucking sleeping for all i care, thats how it works so fuck off.
>Fluff it up however you want using ingame terms but thats the game mechanics for you.

>>54792737
Except the vampire didn't use Celerity because he didn't see the spell coming.

That's how the mechanics work. Celerity isn't spidey sense, as another had said.

:^)

>>54792752
That's called metagaming, you turd monkey. The Vampire has no way of knowing the Mage is casting a spell. That's not how Celerity works.

>>54792771
He isnt surprised is he?

Im talking when hes not surprised. Some faggot added surprise later.

>>54792700
I imagine that they would probably flip if they heard a Mage chanting in High Speech or brandishing a tool of a sort, and that's definitely the kinds of actions they could interrupt.

To play fair, the Mage will also be somewhat in the dark. He won't know that using ways to enhance his magic could actually work against him here, or that the vampire would be able to seemingly teleport out of the way of his windstrike, unless he was an expert on vampires and knew that the vampire was a Daeva, and knew the capabilities and drawbacks of Celerity.

>>54792784
Oh, so the Vampire is 'shook' is he? Still can't tell whether or not the Mage is casting a spell.

If he activated Celerity? He will have wasted it on Mage Armor, to his/her untimely demise.
Even worse if the Mage had a 'Kinetic Shield' up. Or Turn Momentum. Or fucking Rend Friction.

Time n' Forces makes Celerity useless. Similar with Fate.

>>54792783
I would allow the mage to try surprise the vampire with a unknown spell effect. use normal surprise rules, if he succeeds, sure he can toast the vampire before he gets to act, if he fails, then fuck you the vampire can activate celerity to your attempt to roast him, he feels the slightest bit hotter and he is away...

>>54792798
Give it three more replies, and the mage will have used a spell to learn all that as well.

>>54792752
>(smart vampire)
You mean (metagaming asswipe).

>>54792798
High Speech takes too long.
No Mage worth their salt is going to use it in direct combat unless they're from afar.

Covert magic is almost mandatory in both Mage lines.

It's like having Professor X standing off against the Flash. Whoever acts first wins.
Now give Professor X half a dozen contingencies and the Flash literally cannot win.

>>54792820
I don't understand what you mean.

>>54792825
LOL, What about if you have a hidden firearm, use quick draw and shoot a vampire? Are you saying he cant use celerity to avoid it?

There to be some point in casting that alerts the vampire to something going on that he detects and avoids if he isnt suffering from a surprise attack. Its the fucking rules asswipe, i already said sure try surprise the vampire using the normal rules but after that its how it works.

>>54792844
>Professor X
>standing

I like you

>>54792860
There's a difference between pulling out a gun and having a wizard merely thinking a vampire to death.

Only one of them can Celerity be used against.

>>54792853
see
>>54792738

>>54792816
>he feels the slightest bit hotter and he is away...
This is either a weak attempt at justifying metagaming or a statement about how vampires are massive pussies who run from a fight at the smallest amount of heat.

>>54792860
Unless the Vampire is a fucking psychic, he will never know the Mage is casting a spell.

Not unless it's so fucking blatant of a display, which will usually never be the case.

>>54792844
This post shows a terrible lack of understanding of the capabilities of the Flash.

>>54792882
Show me where it says anything like that. That a mage can surprise anybody because they dont do anything while casting....


SHOW ME or fuck off.

>>54792894
Not really.

If the Flash punches Prof. X. It's over.
If Prof. X mind-rapes Flash. It's over.

Now give Prof X abilities a handful of ways to prevent speed-blitzing. Flash is fucked.

>>54792891
how is that done in game mechanical terms then fuckface, mages get auto surprise when casting spells that they dont move with?

Fuck off.

>>54792902
Holy fuck.

I keep thinking I've met the worst vampfags online, but I'm always unpleasantly surprised with people like you.

The vampfag HAS to be a troll. There's just no way it's -that- stupid.

>>54792920
Im not a vampfag asshole.

Ive played mage long enough to know they dont get autosurprise if they cast without moving though.

>>54792939
We're not talking about a 'waggity baggity BOO' Mage here, dumb shit.

To assume that most mages will fucking have hand various motions when they cast their magic is ludicrous. This isn't fucking D&D.

>>54792738
>>54792885
Oh. That's stupid. Cry harder. No one is saying one Mage has all these powers. These are things a Mage could hypothetically do. It's also stupid to blame Mage for it when the post that started it all was bragging about Celerity, wrongly.

>>54792860
>Its the fucking rules asswipe
Can I get a source for that? That a vampire can become aware of a spell with no tells in the middle of combat and react to it? You're also assuming that a spell for spontaneous combustion would have a build up of heat, as opposed to being, well, spontaneous.

>>54792970
>>54793005

Call it what you like, if the vampire is not surprised he can use celerity to preempt ANY action anybody takes, its how the rules work out. If that means he can run away before you toast him, thats how it goes. Explain it however you fucking want too but thats what happens.

The only way you getting to pull of the shit you want is if you surprise the vampire and he doesnt get to act.

>>54792971
When the hypothetical mage is displaying all these powers in the scenario, yes they are saying one mage has all these powers.

If suddenly the mage has all the different armor types, and all the different attack types, at some point he isn't even going to have enough dots in time to be able to do the 'I'm going back in time to surprise the vampire'.

So the whole scenario falls apart.

It just gets idiotic when the hypothetical mage keeps inflating the longer the conversation goes.

Also, never does the mage need to actually succeed at their spells, or worry about what is and isn't a rote, worry about paradox, what yantras and whatever, mage tools. It is just assumed they succeed on whatever spells they need.

>>54792971
>Kinetic Shield
Forces 2
>Go back in time
Time 3

Gee, SOOO uncommon
Do fuck off now

>>54792939
They don't get it against other Mages, because Mages can detect any supernatural phenomena with peripheral Mage Sight, and can see any spell being cast with active Mage Sight. Do Vampires have something similar?

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>>54793017

>>54793017
Celerity doesn't make you psychic, you idiotic whore.

>>54793031
Celerity allows you to insert yourself reflexively before somebody has already said they are doing an action. You interupt another action so you obviously get to know what that other action is going to be because the person has said what it was. Celerity then allows you to take an action before that person.

Im not here to try describe how that happens in the world, its how it happens in the system.

>>54793065
Thats for surprise asshole. If somebody was standing stock and tried to punch you but failed to surprise you he still pops you one in the face before you can react without celerity. Celerity would allow you to avoid it however. Just because you dont see a attack about to happen if your not surprise you can react to it via celerity.

>>54793018
I see the problem. For some reason, you think this a set scenario, with every hypothetical proposed adding to it. That's not the case. Stop being stupid.

>vampire uses celerity against a mage

>mage reflexively uses mage armor
>mage has a kinetic shield up
>mage reflexively uses turn momentum
>mage already deployed the friction curse
>mage has acceleration up
>mage goes back in time and cucks the vampire

time and forces so strong

>>54793065
You cant in the middle of a fight say "Im do nothing so i dont look like im going to do an attack." and later "Surprise i attack him now".

thats not how it works fucknut.

>>54793115
This is stupid. Like this whole scenario has become idiotic. If you don't think the other people replying are assuming the mage has all the abilities from the hypothetical, you are also retarded.

4chan is 18+

Just from reading his/her posts, the present Vampire enthusiast is clearly under that and perhaps past its bedtime.

>>54793109
Celerity doesn't make the vampire psychic, sorry.

>>54793165
At least you stayed gender neutral in your insult, and that's what is important.

>>54793160
Nothing I've seen except for your whining has indicated some kind of ongoing scenario here. Grow up, please.

Remember when that one Magefag thought he could fly by Shielding himself against gravity?

Well how we have a Vampfag declaring that Celerity makes one into a psychic.

>>54793109
>its how it happens in the system.
The system also says that a vampire can't defend against incoming attacks unless he is aware of them. You're blatantly using metagaming in your argument, which won't fly at any halfway decent table.

Wouldn't be a /wodg/ thread if we didn't close out with pointless magewanking.

Don't stop now, you guys have 22 more posts of shitposting before we head to page 10.

>>54793237
What I remember is retards shitting on Mage by memeing shit like "I Shield myself from gravity so I can fly! I Shield myself from Death so I'm invincible! I Shield you from Life so you die!", etc.

>>54793165
Its the same with acceleration. If you can preempt an action you obviously see what that action is before its done, there for can avoid it using whatever things allows you to preempt it.

Folk here must say to their ST "I am not going to tell you what im doing yet, let me just roll the dice and then i'll tell you what happens ok" *rolls some dice* "Ok the thing takes 5 lethal damage as i torch him" he didnt get to use anything to preempt me because he didnt see it coming, i dont have to roll to surprise him because it doesnt look like im doing anything."

No what happens is mage tries to cast a spell on vampire without moving, rolls for surprise, if succeeds then toasty vampire, if fails vampire must notice something odd. Mage takes his action after failing surprise, tries to toast vampire, vampire gets to preempt with celerity, takes his action and runs away, mage decides do run after him

How it looks in the world, is probably something like mages casts spell, vampire gets hotter, vampire runs away, mage spells fails (yes in 3 seconds)

Thats how it fucking works mechanically, its nothing to do with the vampire being psychic

>>54793248
Magewanking? Nice false flagging, dip shit.

This whole thing blew up because of a certain retarded Vampire whore.

>>54793248
Vampfag is the only one shitposting, f a m. He also started it. Can't blame Magefags for this one.

>>54793273
You are an honest to god moron.

>>54793284
>>54793280
You're right, vampwank started it.

But per usual, magewank will end it.

>>54793273
>Folk here must say to their ST "I am not going to tell you what im doing yet, let me just roll the dice and then i'll tell you what happens ok
Only if they're playing with a dirty lowlife metagaming vampfag.

>>54793238
So every mage casting without a rote or high speech gets to roll for surprise in the middle of combat every time he casts a spell without doing anything does he?

"Im casting without doing anything in the middle of combat, nobody can see it coming so i get surprise and they cant react to it" really? really?

Fuck off.

I have a hunch that the vampfag is Eolirin from the OPP forums. He's equally retarded and obsessive over impossibilities regarding Celerity.

>>54793307
>Talking about OPP forum people by name as if we know any of them.

But why?

>>54793297
Please don't equate me with this delusional metagaming retard. I only argue what's in the books and from a character perspective.

>>54793307
>from the OPP forums
disgusting. What's next, inane rantings of Wyrdhamster?

>>54788286
>>54788262
These are pretty cool. What are the PCs?

>>54793307
Every mage now gets to surprise anybody if they dont do anything when casting now.

Wow. Like in the middle of a fight they can declare that an opponent wont see the spell coming so cant dodge it or do anything.

Im surprised because i have never seen this written anywhere. I have read the rules for surprise and im fairly certain you get one chance to surprise somebody and if you fail you cant do it again. The text doesnt say "if an attack doesnt look like an attack, then feel free to use the surprise rules again and dont let them dodge it/avoid it"

>>54793333
Except claiming Celerity enables the vampire to just *know* things is absolutely absurd.

It IS metagaming, whether you like it or not.

>>54778580
I'm pretty sure he was using nazi vampires as an example of an adversary, and i gotta say, vampires are so much more fun to kill when they are nazi's too

>>54793359
And? Its metagaming but thats how it works, how else would you do it then. Explain it to me. In a fight thats already taking place (so participants cant be surprised) how would you do it?

>They both died to a Demon with Merciless Gunman three turns ago.

There, solved.

>>54793305
Not against other Mages, who can sense supernatural phenomena without even trying and can then reflexively activate the Mage Sight of their Path and see the stock still Mage's Nimbus flaring and the symbols of his Imago being formed, which is a universally visible thing to all kinds of active Mage Sight, I should add. They can then take the opportunity to counterspell, if able, or to put up Mage Armor reflexively.

If other splats have abilities that allow them to sense magic in the making, good for them. They can use that. If they don't, too bad. These games weren't made with crossover balance in mind, after all.

>>54793359
>Except claiming Celerity enables the vampire to just *know* things is absolutely absurd.
It is, I agree.

>>54793384
Or the Demon just cursed them to die in some random accident.

Hope the mage notices in time and knows someone who can undo that.

Oh too late, he got hit by a bus while heading to his sanctum.

>>54793359
Even if you need to describe it in fluff terms as "You attempt to toast the vampire, the vampire starts to get hotter and hotter but suddenly the vampire isnt there anymore. your spell failed, whats your action now."

mechanically the vampire used celerity to avoid your toasting, get over it.

>>54793384
That does not work on supernaturals actually. Death by probability is for mortals "without special destiny" either.

>>54793377
It literally isn't how it works. The player being aware of it does not make the character aware of it, and the rules for Celerity explicitly states that the vampire can't defend against attacks it isn't aware of. Have you just never played a game? Any ST worth anything would have slapped this metagaming stance out of you as soon as you tried to pull it.

>>54793424
You ain't special dog. And I hear mages are very mortal.

>>54793426
And the rules state that barring surprise you can take an action to dodge anything. Its not about not seeing it coming, its about reacting super fast to what is happening, even if it is 1-2 seconds of a 3 second spell, you then are can react and avoid it..

>>54793416
Mechanically the vampire is unable to avoid attacks it isn't aware of. Spontaneous combustion, being spontaneous and all, would indeed roast them, get over it. And if you argued this dumb shit at my table you would be out the door, your character turned to ash and now irrelevant to the game.

>>54793456
everything is happening at the same time in 3 seconds, its not a one after the other in the game world, celerity is allowing the vampire or acceleration is allowing the mage to react to what the person is doing as they are doing it in the 3 second turn and avoiding it. If that means they wait till their hair starts on fire and run off 1 second before the spell finishes then well tough shit.

>>54793446
It specifically states that NO supernaturals are affected. That includes Mages. And I'm not talking about me. I am talking about plot important, mortal NPCs.

>>54793456
>you then are can react and avoid it..
You're trolling. You've gotta be.

>>54793416
No. It gets spontaneously combusted. No Celerity used at all. Now deal with the damage, be it Lethal or Aggravated.

>>54793468
I mean, even real 'spontaneous combustion' isn't completely instant.

I think... I think you're actually starting to lose this argument.

By the raw, the vamp does have a chance to use Celerity once an attack against them is used.

Once someone is being attacked, in a non-surprise situation, they are aware of it. It isn't like vampires aren't magical enough to be aware that they are being roasted. You are trying to kill them, and they can feel something is wrong, which gives them a chance to reflexively act.

It is pretty wuxia high action, but that's just how vampire stuff gets when they start pumping celerity.

Just kill the vampire after for all it matters. But it is pointless to stop a player from attempting something cool.

>>54793525
>I think you're actually starting to lose this argument

You're getting desperate now

>>54793525
>I mean, even real 'spontaneous combustion' isn't completely instant.
It's magic.

>By the raw, the vamp does have a chance to use Celerity once an attack against them is used.
Not if they aren't aware of it, by the raw. It doesn't say the vampire can't defend against surprise attacks. It says it has to be aware of an attack to defend against it.

>and they can feel something is wrong
Based on what?

>>54793401
Can't counterspell unless you're in active and looking at the caster when they're casting.
Once it hits your peripheral, it's too late to stop it forming.

>>54793590
>based on what?

On starting to spontaniously combust which takes 3 seconds, which they can react to preemptively.

Unless you are saying you can start to spontaniously combust and not notice it?

>>54793606
Why would a magic spontaneous combustion take three seconds? Also, if you're starting to spontaneously combust, it's a little too late to run.

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Next Magefags will say that a normal master can take on an Antideluvian Nightmare

>>54793636
Unless... I don't know, you are made of magic?

If *I* was spontaneously combusting, yes it would be too late.

But I'm not a magical corpse monster.

>>54793636
Spell casting takes 3 seconds, and no the point of celerity is your fast enough that its not to late to start running, you are super fast.

>>54793599
I stand corrected on that part then. But still, they would be aware, and could still reflexively react, I would say.

>>54793688
Sure

>>54793693
They become aware when they start spontaiously combusting, they they activate celerity and avoid most of it, resulting in mechanically no damage and them running away before its cast. The mage can choose a new action, fluff wise he tried to toast the vampire but he was gone before he finishes the spell so gets to do something else

3 seconds for a vampire with celerity is ample time for him to become aware of a mage casting without doing anything as long as the effects are tangable.

>>54793669
>Spell casting takes 3 seconds
Magic doesn't work like that. The Imago is formed, then released, and then it happens. There are no effects of the spell present before it's actually cast.

>no the point of celerity is your fast enough that its not to late to start running, you are super fast
It also does not work like this. He isn't spontaneously combusting the spot you're standing in. He's spontaneously combusting YOU. By the time you feel it coming, if you do at all, the spell is cast and you're getting combusted no matter how far or how fast you run.

This is comedy gold

I have never seen such a retarded vampfag before.
He's getting eaten alive.

>>54793763
Naw, at this point I believe him.

The magewankers seem desperate, like usual, to take even the smallest thing away from another splat.

This could have been over by just saying 'okay that misses, but for my next action I just roast you anyway'.

But no, instead they have constructed a monolithic case of why they get to kill this vampire that dared use an attack against them. Including:

>Reactively speeding themselves up also
>Going back in time to attack before they were ever attacked
>Blowing the vampire up
>All without ever being noticed

It isn't enough to win a fight, they can't let their perfect little mage hypothetical even be attacked in the first place. That would be too much for them.

Which is exactly why a Magewanker could be right in every aspect of the rules. No one likes them anyway.

>>54793819
>Naw, at this point I believe him.
So you support disregarding explicit text, building faulty arguments, and metagaming? Good to know.

>>54793819
Do you even know what he's arguing? I didn't think so.

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>>54793858
Have fun never getting to play because have your autism kills your social life

>>54793858
If it means being against magewankers, sure. What is the harm? The vampire attacks a mage, probably misses because melee combat in CofD is literally the worst possible option. Then gets killed or flees.

Meanwhile, what did the vampire player do? Try to use one of their powers on their sheet in an explanation of a way to escape death.

That isn't a crime, that's playing the game.

If I was the storyteller and I had just heard all the stupid explanation from the mage of how we even got to that point where the Vampire just wanted to use Celerity to not be exploded, I would totally allow it.

Why not?

>>54793763
You must also think that in a real fight everybody takes turns one after the other too?

Or that mechanics of a combat system may feel or even be metagamey but that is because we as real people arnt psychic so it has to be done via some form of mechanics, which just happen to be in this case allowing you to preempt an action (which so somepeople seems like being psychic??)

Mages not doing anything while casting being able to surprise anything when casting seems like a pretty useful ability but yet there is zero text explaining anything relating to it? Show me the mechanical benefits a mage gets using zero rotes or high speech to cast a spell please?

>>54793916
I would rather not play than play with retards like you and him. Or just you, probably.

I remember this time when cabal in my game got almost blasted by a bunch of prepared hunters. Players weren't prepared; they also freaked the hell out because of surprise attack and couldn't formulate any good strategy. The only thing which saved them was the Space magic - they run away.
After than, I don't engage in white room battles. Half of those retards screaming "mages are overpowered" would never prepare for anything out of sense of false security, and other half would be too stupid to actually use their abilities to the maximum.

>>54793947
Do you even get to play? Probably not which is why you are here arguing over mage supremacy.

>>54788286
>marginally less
Oh, good. Because it sounds an awful lot like your players are trying to beat out an Australian bushfire with their faces.

Explain to me again how Celerity causes the Vampire to know precisely what spell the Mage is casting?

Or how it will prevent spontaneous combustion?

Is there anything in the current crop of lines that gives extra combat actions, or have they banished that forever?

>>54793979
shhhhhh, shhhhhh, rest now.

No one cares.

How are these mages casting successful spells without rotes or yantras? Just because a mage can cast mentally doesn't make it effective or practical

>>54793955
You wouldn't believe me if I said yes, and you would dismiss any examples I gave you as being made up. If this your angle I'm not going to waste time on you.

>>54793979
It literally cannot. Behold the autism that is vampfaggotry.

>>54793979
>The decision to interrupt is made after >another character’s action is
>declared, but before it actually occurs (before >dice are rolled).

Declare your action, i get to interupt it.

metagamey but rules are rules

>>54794001
Im actually love mage, i just would allow the vampire to use celerity because its how it fucking works mechanically.

>>54793995
...Arcanum+Gnosis? If you don't take penalties, that's usually more than enough for a spell.

>>54794003
Except the Vampire does not know what the Mage is doing, assuming covert casting is being deployed.

Nor can Celerity be used to counteract an action when not aware.

>>54794009
You're right. Only in this scenario it wouldn't work.

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>>54793932
When you leave you will be missed

>>54794009
You're ignoring that it explicitly says that a vampire can't use Celerity to defend against an attack it isn't aware of. Not a surprise attack, an attack it isn't aware of.

>>54794001
So you're admitting to being a friendless faggot
good to know

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>>54793347
>Himiko Kamiya, a Japanese shrine maiden [or miko] who uses powers drawn from buddhist rddhi [psychic powers] and traditional shinto beliefs. Summons spirits all the time [which work differently in my game], her mentor is the spirit of her dead mother, who was killed by Boss Cao. Lives in a shrine in the slums which is also a Node. Recently brought her childhood imaginary friend to life as a Tulpa ally named "The Moon Prince", an extremely bishie angel.

>Alexander bani Bonisagus: A college professor in his forties, looks a bit like Noam Chomsky. Loves Arthurian legend and European folklore, is originally from the UK, maxes Time and Coorespondance to let him both scry everything and hang tons of effects for later use. Is determined to repairing his reputation in the Order of Hermes after a botched summoning led to a demon getting loose in Central Park and almost creating a public incident.

>John Phillips. A local dock worker with the appearance of a deformed fishman, who went mad, mutated, and Awakened after the awakening of Ummu-Hubur. Is practically invincible, by my house-rules he could survive a nuclear detonation. Party combat monster, seeking a cure for his condition, very shocked by the wider world of magic he's stepped into.

>Raico Samuel. Cowboy who uses ancient Aztec blood magic to transform objects into other objects and empower his physical abilities. Is personal friends with two of the Aztec deities. Character is based in part on early seasons of Jojo, before Stands were introduced. Is the first person to point out the absurdity of the plot in all cases. Second strongest fighter after John.

As hinted above, the plot mostly revolves around the fact that one night Excalibur, only rusted and dysfunctional, showed up at the city museum and Ahriman had them steal it.

Everything after that is how the various factions of the city have reacted to that fact.