/HHG/ The Horus Heresy General Thread

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Death to the enemies of the Emperor!

>>54763972
That is without a doubt my favourite piece of official 40K artwork. BT were my first faction and their retcon triggered me so hard I started playing IW.

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BLOOD AND DEATH! LUPERCAL!

>>54764003
which retcon would that be? if its the size one its been reversed again to over codex numbers

>>54764236
BT have been retconned to worship the Emperor as a god, rather than merely being fanatically devoted to Him, His ideals and the continuation of the Great Crusade.

They no longer hate all psykers, but only the UNHOLY AND HERETICAL enemy psykers they fight. I hate it.

I hate the numbers thing as well.

>>54764277
>>54764277
Are you sure the Emperor worship is a retcon? Way back in codex armageddon they even had a special rule that they refused to use cover because they "are convinced the emperor will protect them"

Sounds like faith/worship to me.

>>54764367
You mistake fanatical zeal with worship. The Emperor and the Grey Knights are the only pure Psykers; they used to have rules that forbade them from allying/fighting alongside other psykers, or fielding any of their own.

Compare to BTs kneeling to Astropaths and working with Greyfax the Psyker Inquisitor and doing all kinds of silly shit, or Magneric of the Kalkator Crusade trying to convert the Bantsmith. FML.

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>>54764093
FOR LUPERCAL AND THE EMPEROR

>>54764093
Kill for the living and kill for the dead brother-anon

>>54764277
>>54764407
okay what? An Emperor's Champion is chosen when they recieve a "holy vision" while the whole force prays to the Emperor.

they've always worshipped him.

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Ride like the Wind!

Damn Scars was a good book.

Anyone else have a book that completely turned you around/got you interested in a legion?

>>54764477
>That double reply

That's what I get for talking to someone else while trying to post

3k anon here. Worked out what to do with my spare 200ish. 10 more vets in a melta rhino

Hey, just got 30 marines and a contempter for a SoH force. I've also got the Abbadon and Loken combo. Would a fire raptor be another good choice for me to grab?

>>54764653
Only if you plan on never running Black Reaving, which is a fair decision to make.

Convince me to join your Legion

Convince me to stay Loyal to the Emperor or go Traitor

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>>54764822
Loyalty is it's own reward.

Alpharius, Lion-El, Rogal, Sanguinius, or Jagahti, which of the last five primarchs will be next in the character series, /tg/?

>>54764525
You know what? I'm looking through my old BT Codex right now and you're right that there are a lot of references to things being holy, prayer, etc. However, nothing in the old codex mentions the entire force praying.

I seem to remember Grimaldus saying they don't worship Him in Blood and Fire, and there are some other sources that are ambigious/give the impression that they don't worship Him in the sense that He's their god, but rather that their devotion is such there is little obvious difference. Doesn't Fall of Cadia say the Black Templars weren't inspired in the same way as the Cadian forces because they didn't share their belief?

Either way they always hated any and all psykers, with very very few exceptions to that rule, and that is part of the retcon I dislike.

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>>54764822
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx61xeDV_60
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf9AaTV4-yw

Why settle for less that the greatest of them all?

>>54764822
If you're a traitor you'll be on the same side as Erebus.
Think about it.

>>54764889
The emperor's champion recieving a vision during prayer was from the 3rd ed vanilla codex I think. As for the FoC I just checked and while the other chapters weren't affected it singles out the Templars as being an exception who were inspired.

Cant really comment on Blood & Fire though as I haven't read that one.

You're right about the psykers one being a retcon though, while I can understand them tolerating navigators as they're kind of a nessesity, I always thought their refusal to fight alongside psykers other than GK was a cool, fluffy rule.

>>54764822
Come stand on the walls of Terra.
Resist. Hold. Endure.

>>54764968
If you're a loyalist you're on the same side as Leman Russ.

>>54765018
Thanks for the clarification. Might make a BT army again someday, the 3E codex is awesome.

>>54764822
Demonic possession is cool

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Who's the shittiest Primarch?

>>54764687
I'm really not a fan unless for fluff since I can just take Mal if I want reavers. And personally I don't like reavers because if I want them to have bolters I have to screw around with the model with magnets because they have so many options.

>>54765076
no problem, good luck if you do!

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>>54765158
Pert.

>>54765158
Lorgar
Not even cus he started the whole shit show, just because he is a whiny little bitch

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>>54765158
Russ, obviously. I normally don't much care which space dad I'm shooting at, but his complete disregard for collateral damage combined with complete failure at capitalizing on the carnage means I take particular pleasure in crushing him. Wiping out the grand centres of learning and knowledge in Tizca was by far a greater crime than wiping out the 1KSons, in my opinion.

>>54764822

Don't bother with the Marines. Join the Mechanicum, or the Legio Cybernetica if it has to be a Legion, we come bearing boops, gorgeous models and an army list that can do pretty much anything they can save the White Scars' tricks. Also, completely and utterly expendable, and there's no shortage of joy in that.

>>54764569
Know no fear made Ultramarines pretty cool for me.

>>54764569
Shroud of Night made me like the Alpha Legion after the HH series reduced them to a shitty meme.

>>54765247
He was but no longer. He defeated Guilliman and he'd have killed him if Angron hadn't charged. He defeated Ka Bandha. He burned Ultramar and managed to save Angron from himself. He bitchslapped possessed Fulgrim and terrified him.
He's no longer a whiny bitch.

>>54765467
Didn't he defeat Anggrath?
That's even more of a feat

>>54764569
Yep, Scars did it for me. I liked Path of Heaven even more, though it does lose its cheeriness.

>>54764653
Fire Raptors are always great.

>>54765518
Yep, that anon got the wrong thister. It was Angry-Roth.

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>>54765247
Unironically the best Primarch

>>54765158
Your favourite.
In fact, everyone in this thread's favourite primarch is the worst.

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>>54764822

Do you want worlds to bow their heads and sink to their knees at the very mention of your name? Do you want to raise humanity above it's base instincts and elevate them into a civilized race to be proud of? Do you want to forge your own path in a galaxy of tyrants, despots, oppressors and mad gods? Choose justice. Choose the VIII Legion.

>>54764822
Even if you are a rad wasted survivor, the blood of the legion can turn you into an 8 foot tall demigod with the most extensive changes out of any of the astartes.

You'll probably die during the change as it is the most dangerous out of the legions, but whatever.

>>54764873
Probably Dorn, but I'm hoping for Sang.

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>>54766024
>Curze is at once my favorite and the worst
Makes a lot of sense honestly

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>>54764822
Don't be a pansy, join the *real* elite forces: The Legio Custodes and the Legio Cybernetica.
Both play very interestingly, look amazing, have a small starting size with some of the most elite units around and can be built in a large number of ways.

>>54764822
How could you ever play any Legion that isn't the greatest? Horus was Warmaster because he was the best, and all the filthy plebs in here that will claim otherwise are gay jealous retards.

>>54766554
Bald primarchs are the worst

>>54764873
Alpharius will be dead last, and with rumors churning about on how Lion will be the next loayalist primarch for 40k I don't see him getting a HH model anytime soon. Rogal is irrelevant until Terra and barely anyone gives a shit about Khan.
People are pretty stoked for Sang, unsurprisingly, so my money is on him, especially considering just who the next FW book is about.

>>54766588
Uh oh, gay jealous retard detected

>>54766634
But anon, Horus was super gay for Sang.

>>54766105
>Justice
>Skinning children

Second worst Legion confirmed.

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>>54766527
The Cybernetica are probably WAY more numerous than the Marines, too, despite being way better individually. Truly second best Legio.

Best is obviously pic related, although I'm miffed that the only two options for Titans are "Full Chaos McMegaspike" and "Massive aquilas everywhere". I just want a Cog Mechanicum for my Renegade Mech, dammit.

>>54766674
Are you saying that you wouldn't be go gay for Sang?

>>54765962
>>54765518
My bad. Daemon names are not my cup of tea

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>>54766693
Oh yeah, totally forgot that the Collegia Titanicus has technically also a legion structure.
It's a trinity of best legios, then: Custodes, Cybernetica and Titanicus.

>>54767690
You just need Malal and you can be a hipster quadrangle.

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>>54767690
Is Custodes gold the new Ultramarine blue?

I miss when Custodes had more colour to them.

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>>54768006
Because of that pic I basecoated a custodes landraider for 40k use red. It looked like garbage next tot the mostly-gold infantry.
Let it go, dude. I did the same.

>>54766676

Sometimes, you have to break a few egg to make an omelette. It's nothing personal.

Kid.

>>54768133
>jump pack custodes
>with lances *and* shields
Thank fuck this is concept art.

>>54766676
the first one?

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>>54768133
Maybe you're just a shit painter?

>>54768550
Quite possible, but why are you posting a picture that supports my point?

>>54768622
Your objectively wrong point?

If I have to choose between a shitty looking gold&red army and a shitty looking nothing but gold army, I'll take the one that looks less shitty to me.

>>54768550
Those clash m8

>>54765158
Leman "Fuck the Wolves literaly" Russ

>>54767955
I suspect that there are more Mechanicum players than players of any one Legion, and Custodes are probably catching up pretty damn quickly. Personally I don't really like playing Marines because they're rather dull IMO, but I've seen some rather cool Marine armies with various tricks, so they make good opponents.

What armies do you prefer to beat upon, anons? Personally Reductor vs. Death Guard is always fun, just because of the sheer amount of war crimes flying around and how bloody it gets when close-quarters combat starts and chem-flamers, Irrad, grav and melta starts flying around. I basically take a 50% damage cut on my Irrad Engines, but they're still not bad.

>>54768487
The one that decided to worship the fucking chaos gods.
Fuck you Erebus

>>54768550
Leaving aside the awful dread and the 'I stopped caring' tacticals, the gold/black/red custodes clash pretty badly with the red/white/black vehicles.
Matter of taste, of course, but I think the color choice is pretty bad overall.

>>54768727
So why do Custodes have gold and red as their colours if they clash? Why do BA have dudes in golden armour next to dudes in red armour? Why are there so many things in the world coloured gold and red?

>>54768550
those look terrible.

>>54768780
Speaking as a custodes player, bullying melee legions, especially World Eaters, in melee is always fun. Doubly so if there's a primarchstar involved.

I bet if FW had painted Custodes vehicles red, everyone would be sucking their dick.

>>54768895
There is a non-insignifiant group of people that strongly dislike the custodes vehicles in the first place or find they don't match the custodes design, so chances are that people wouldn't give a shit in this case.

>>54768895
this level of petty butthurt is pathetic.

people disagree with you, get over it.

>>54768981
That's not me, anon. People have the right to hate gold and red Custodes as much as I have disliking an all gold Custodes.

>>54768891
Primarchstar tears are joy distilled. There's six thousand of the damned things here, only DGbro and NLdude don't run them.
I'm fine with the IH player running them, since it fits with the IH theme and Ferrus isn't going to do shit otherwise, and the EC player keeps his small - Command Squad in a Raider.
The UM player runs nothing but pure boredom, though. 10 Suzies, Rowboat, Chaplain and FnP dude in a Spartan, mortars, Levi Dread and minimum troops.
I need to get some Droplites just to burn that thing.

>>54769211
I don't run Primarchs you fuck.

>>54769930
What? I never said anything about people here. I was just talking about the people at my store.

>>54770013
Ah, fair cop.

Anyways. Just got back from a 3000 point game against Iron Warriors with my Sons of Horus.
Lists
My Sons of Horus
Maloghurst
Chaplain with Jump pack and Axe.
49 Veterans in Rhinos
14 Reavers
2 Malcadors and 2 Lightnings

Him
Warsmith in Cataphractii with Power Fist
Centurion with Power Sword
30 Tacticool marines
15 Breachers
20 Havocs (10 auto and 10 las)
10 flamer support in a rhino
5 Tyrant Terminators
8 standard terminators
2 Leviathans

Came out with a significant win, he came in expecting me to charge the board, and bleed white on the way in. Instead I deployed en masse via outflank (only the Malcadors deployed on the field), and appeared on his sides, ripping horrific wounds in his formations. He fought hard but was basically sectioned off and devoured piece by piece.
I took pics, but the combination of shocking lighting in the venue, and my phone cams general shittiness non of the fucking things look right.

Men of the Match
Mine, Veteran Squad Aekeddon, who while being charged by 8 Cataphractii terminators, casually gunned down 5 with overwatch and cut the rest down.
His, either his Leviathan with Grav cannon. It made it all the way across to my Malcs, cornered them and raped them death with its drill hand, or his Breacher Sgt, who blew up a good third of my Reavers with a well placed breaching charge, and held his boys together for 5 rounds of combat against my Reavermob.

>>54770767
As an aside, I learned a couple of things, one a pair of Malcadors, in a friendly game are a touch overkill, and thier ability to fire thier top mount weapon and then turbo boost (or vice versa), I used that to drive my friend crazy. Basically operating the tanks like super heavy tau battle suits, popping out of cover, nailing something with battlecannons, the hopping behind other cover.
And my Reavers are just a joke. Expensive and tied up by breachers for fucking ages, doing sweet FA for premium cost. Those fucks are about to get dropped like a brick.

>>54770892
>reavers are a joke
No, really? Who would have thought?
More seriously, at least they aren't Rampagers, right?

>>54771147
Look man, when they got thier shit wrecked by Breachers, BREACHERS. Breachers that didn't outnumber them by the by... Something has gone spectacularly wrong.
This is fucking insane, that Reaver Squad and its leader were pushing 500 points. Nearly 1/6 of my army, and it just fucked about and did nothing.

>>54771147
>tfw phalanx warders

>>54771453
>>54771147
>Rampagers...
I'm so, SO sorry.
>Warders
Well I guess they can teleport and are hilarious if they are charged while being kitted with a million breacher charges.

>>54771268
Breachers are the quintessential tarpit, the kind of unit you avoid touching with your specialists. That's on you. (What were they armed with?)

>>54771647
Chainaxes, Jump packs and a chaplain. I agree it was on me, I got too focused on advancing on his havocs and lost sight of the threat on the flanks.

>>54771677
All well, I'm looking at more standard assault squad in its place now, maybe with an apothecary and a couple power axes.

>>54771752
Nightlord here, running two or more big blobs of assault marines is a legit thing, especially with some variety of massed veterans coming in off the side, even if your inferior veterans lack choom in great quantity

>>54771794
I make up for it with BS 5, sniper and storms of plasma.

>>54771810
CHOOOOOOOM

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>>54770767

I am surprised you let me charge them to be fair, but I couldn't have a unit of jumpacks marauding as they pleased. Honestly the breachers were the only thing which really did there job (Fuck your Malcadors.) The Tyrants did absolutely nothing. The lascannons (my usual MVP) just couldn't do anything, and the auto cannons were next to useless.

I wish I'd have taken the Deredeo instead of the auto Havocs, not only to fuck with your planes, but to fuck up transports too.

The thing I'm salty about the most though is you knocking out the storm Leviathan's siege drill turn one, because when you charged it, it weren't doing shit for the rest of the game.

The dice betrayed me, the Imperium chewed us up and spat us out for the last time. Round two will be different. Mark my words.

- Forrix -

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>>54771925
Look ditch digger, get back to readying your own mass graves and failing to do much worth a fuck in the siege of Terra.

>>54771677
I'm surprised a squad that big with chainaxes couldn't hack its way through. Add a couple of power fists next time?

>>54772129
Yeah, my power fist was on the chieftan, he got flash fried by the flamer support squad.

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You have to admit it, I didn't fight like a bitch.

This roughly the same army you saw charge at, and beat a XIIth Red Butcher bus.

P.T.F.O

Always to the bitter end, whether you like it or not.

>>54772153
I won't pretend otherwise buddo. You just got the XVI appear from unexpected quarters and fight in a manner completely unorthodox from what you have encountered up until this point.
We both took lessons home from this I'd like to think.

>>54772153
Post a pic of your bitterboys if you haven't already.

>>54772319

He hasn't. I'll pester him to post them. The work hes done on his leviathans (both still wip) is sweet as fuck.

Wait, why are Terminator Bodyguard thunder hammers 15pts. when everything else costs the same as with regular terminators? Why would I ever buy thunder hammers for that cost, when I can have a non-Concussive equivalent in a power fist for 10pts. less or a vastly superior anti-tank weapon in the chainfist for 5pts. less?

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Currently my only finished Iron Warrior

>>54772652
Because it looks cool and it makes your imperial fist/sally players buy FW termies instead of using their 40k indomitus assault termie

>>54772717
>FW termies

You mean BaC and BoP termies?

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New Centurion, nearly finished, needs a coat of medium then weathering.

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I have no idea, why they're posting like that...

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current WIP

>>54772772
>>54772801
>>54772723
Welcome to /hhg/ anon. Flip that shit.

>>54772668
>>54772723
>>54772772
>>54772801
>>54772831
Looking good. Here's how you stop 4chan from flipping your photos.
>rotate pic in your phone to the correct orientation
>CROP the pic to lock it in
>post pic

>>54772772
Just curious, why no hazard stripes?

They would look good on the face mask/knee pads

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Not him, but I flipped them. Looking real nice bitter brother.

I have been considering doing the face plate striped, the knee pads however I just don't have a steady enough hand to pull it off. I'm just worried about over doing it, the yellow stripe shoulder pad was a last minute addition, so i'll think about it.

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>>54773011
Click the number after "No." to reply to a post.

So, because I'm bored, what tiers does /hhg/ hold the various armies of the 31st millenium at? Just curious about how they are seen as stacking up against each other.

>>54773342
My army is shit and fails against my common enemies, only being saved by my superior intellect and incredible generalship

Most legions are able to be used well, or at least to a similar level, in some way, shape or form, although some are simpler than others-see WE or IH compared to AL. Admech are better at shooty than legions, custodes are better at CC than legions, thousand sons have magnus who is 2gud

>>54773342
In rough order, although the gaps don't tend to be THAT large unless you're fighting lowest to highest and there's obviously variation based on list specifics or type matchups - Ironfire has a bad time against flyer-heavy Ravin' Guard, for instance, and Ordo Reductor doesn't take well to drop-pod Sons of Horus.
Also every list has its lame ducks, so I'm assuming that they're about at the same level of competitiveness and that one player hasn't maxed out on Thallax or Destroyers because they look cool.

>Nonsense Tier
Custodes, because nearly everything they have is just better versions of the best Marine units tax-free.
The worst Mechanicum lists, like Reductor arty spam featuring Droplites, Occularis, Gravidons and allied Rending Levy blobs.
Thousand Sons with Magnus the Red/GotC, and shredding Sniper Vets with invulns and Divination are pretty damned shiny too.

>Powerful Tier
Normal Mechanicum lists
Normal 1kSons lists
Solar Auxilia tankspam, especially Malcador Infernus
Ironfire Iron Warriors
Pretty much any Legion list with Phosphex quad mortars/Leviathan Dread spam

Normal Tier:

Pretty much every Legion not in the other tiers.
Infantry Solar Auxilia
Tank-line Militia and Cults, often featuring Rending Levy blobs or Survivors of a Dark Age psuedo-Marines for cheap.

Sad Tier:

Word Bearers without just using their abilities to play a Daemon army with minimal Marines
Night Lords
Pure Militia and Cults without heavy tanks or SotDA

Odd:

Imperial Knights - just as binary as regular 7e 40k. Stomp because you brought AT weapons, get stomped 'cause you didn't. Make great allies, in large games, though.
Levy Swarm MaC - Tends to be gunned down for lack of variety or durability on its own, but allying a couple big fuckoff tarpits with decent damage to any list rarely brings it DOWN in power.

>>54764407

>Magneric of the Kalkator Crusade trying to convert the Bantsmith

Pretty sure any "conversion" would have been Magneric literally pasting Kalkator as part of his repentence.

>>54764889

I don't mind the psyker thing, since astropaths and navigators are absolutely crucial to the functioning of the Imperium.

And I think the mystery of the lack of librarians is better than "FUCK ALL PSYKERS NEAR AND FAR"

A healthy mistrust would maybe a be a good balance, because otherwise allying with them would be fucking annoying.

At least you still have the rule that they can't take Libbys.

Why does everyone ignore Leman Russ' character development from his novella?

Where he realizes he and his legion have been colossal fucking assholes, and he vows to change himself and them to be more than simple bloody-minded executioners.

>>54772147
My guess is that you would've gotten tied up by nearly anything because marines are just fairly resilient.

>>54773985
Doesn't he only come to that realization post-Heresy and then run off into the Warp never to be seen again?

so i want to make my world eaters more ganger style a la sons of horus
how should i go about doing that? besides more grenade belts from 40k scouts and generally more equipped

>>54774104
Spikes and gang markings scribbled on their armour.

>>54774179
i dont really know how to do the gang markings for world eaters? id copy the SoH but they have the cthonian or whatever script

>>54773985
Because the next thing he does is get back to Terra bitch about the Khan doing the right thing then instead of sticking around goes and gets rekt by Horus and has to be saved by Corax of all people after losing another large chunk of his legion.

>>54774023

Naw, it's pre-Terra, while they're being stalked by the Alpha Legion.

>>54774323
At least he still isn't as much of an asshole like he was. He's trying to do the right thing. (I also chlak some of that up to poor writing. "Well Russ is at Terra now." "Wait, he's not there during the siege" "What? Fuck!")

Are there any instances where a less numerous traitor force defeats a greater loyalist force through superior tactics instead of just sucker punching them or something? I can only think of the reverse happening. All the traitor legions are such retarded jobbers in the fluff.

>>54766845
N-no

>>54774851
I don't know. Black Library is trash.

>>54774851
no, because the chaos gods suck tactical genius out of you as soon as you let them stranger-danger you.

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>>54774851
Last I checked the fact that the loyalists were strung out and stuck fighting massively superior traitor armies was a sign of strategic genius. Its kind of the point that they were able to make use of massive local superiority of force, at the same time as stop the loyalists from properly regrouping across the entire heresy. The loyalists were so scattered and broken in the face of the traitor advance they basically doctrinally changed, forced to become smaller elite strike forces doing thier best to stall the traitor push on Terra. Because they had been so completely broken in the initial strikes they couldn't properly partake in open Legion warfare.

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>>54773683
My Solar Aux force allied into my Ravin' Guard is lead by a tank commander in a Valdor tank hunter, a veletaris squad in a demolisher Dracosan, a lasrifle squad in a Dracosan, two Vanquisher LR's and two Medusas.

I've never played with all these tonks but your run down made me think that I may have inadvertently created a WAACfag list.

I was just trying to address some of the shortcomings of the RG and I'm really enjoying the sci-fi WWI feel of the SA, but does that justify my SA force or do I need to take a good hard look at myself and tone it down?

>pic unrelated, just there to draw you in to the post. Cool though, huh?

>>54778021
You don't have a Malcador Infernus so no one will notice.

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>>54778085
>don't have a Malcador Infernus

Yet.

>>54778021
Nothing screams super waac to me. But whatever.
>>54778085
I guess this is my 'everything fucking outflanks, is a flyer or a flare shielded legion malcador' but I could not give a single fuck about the infernus. By the time something it can actually damage turns up, its about to eat a clutch of kraken heavy penetrator warheads.

>>54774104
Why do you want to do that since it canonically wasn't their thing?

World Eaters don't have a culture coming from one particular planet like other legions because Angron hated his homeworld and they recruited from everywhere.

What do you mean by 'ganger style' anyway? That is literally Cthonian culture seeping into the SoH. The most you could do is add kill tally markings to the armour, they didn't have any runes or script unique to themselves.

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>trying to decide on a legion
>all the ones I like have been ruined by memes

>>54778502
>all the ones I like have been improved by memes
Fixed that for you.

>>54778502
>taking memes seriously]
As long as you aren't playing NLs, WBs or SWs you should be fine.

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Open day shit.

>>54778606
That's a big dropship.

>>54778606
Holy fuck, it looks like a cheap toy.

The nu-Custodes aesthetic was a mistake.

>>54768006
Custodes only wear gold because the fact that gold exists makes every other colour inferior.

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>>54778502
>somebody said something not nice about something I like
>and that's not ok

Do you need your safe warpspace, Aeldari?

Just do what you like and learn to laugh at how shitty they all are.

>>54778606
Well, that's a complete pile of garbage. Arlatax when, Forge World? It's the one robot that's rather difficult to convert due to lack of suitably hueg jump packs, and we're still getting screwed on models for them and Papa Scoria while you come up with, model and sell entirely new Custodes units to patch their only weaknesses.

>>54778643
Sure thing, Mr. President.

>>54773683
I'd argue that aside from the bullshit Caladius and Telemon custodes are fairly reasonable on account of paying out the ass for anything. Fuck the Caladius and the Telemon though.
Then again, maybe I am biased.

>>54774104
>So, I want to make my World Eaters more like the Sons of Horus and less like World Eaters.

>>54778606
>Omega tank destroyer
don't we have the Venator Sicaran for this niche?

>>54778606
What the fuck is that tank destroyer going to do when the Arcus already exists?

>>54778722
Provide a way for FW to make money from people who don't know any better, ala the Warlord.

>>54778606
Fuck me, 49£ for three measly Aquilon? And if you want their tiny-ass fire pikes you have to buy a separate squad?

>>54778606
Well, fuck me, but that's one ugly-ass dropship for my boys. I am at best lukewarm on the custard vehicles in general, but that's fucking horrible.

>Aquilon Terminators
>Aquilon Terminators with firepikes
Please tell me the firepike version also has solarite gauntlets in as part of their kit to replace the worthless solarite talons.

TS Praetor looks sexy though, and the Minotaur might be the first Nu-Bowl mini I've liked.

>>54778701
Yeah, but that's old and busted, this is the new hotness. Buy it. It's better than whatever shit you're using now.

>>54778735
>>54778737
Remember, FW are the good guys, who care about you and the hobby.

It's a shame they couldn't do the same thing as with other terminators and sell the bodies and arms separate. That way I could have just bought the bodies and put other arms on them, because those Indomitus shoulders just won't do.

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>>54778962
>repackage and put a different name on it
>"It's totally new, guys!"

>>54778782

>It's a shame they couldn't do the same thing as with other terminators and sell the bodies and arms separate

They've been up to this shit a lot recently. If you want both gun options for the moritat you have to buy two kits.

>>54778983
>>54778962
That's a very GW thing to do.

How big would Thunder Warrior minis be?

>>54779140
We don't have a solid reference for their size so any answers would be guesses.

>>54779140
just right for shoving up your arse

>>54778983
For the nom nom Emperor

New to the game and thinking of starting thousand sons, do thousand sons look good if i don't use the shiny red colour since i don't have an airbrush.

>>54778962
>>54778983
Well, they know their audience at least.

>>54779186
Anything can look good if you can paint well.

You can buy paints that replicate the effect from GW without the need for an airbrush

>>54778606
There are cheaper better looking GI Joe toys from the 80s, than this dropship.

But now im most intrested what is FW going to do with primaris marines. They will tease something Im shure.

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>>54778606
Well, fuck. Now that I have finally found a suitable replacement for the Coronus in the turret-less Repulsor, FW decides to release a flyer. And it's ugly, too.
Unfortunatly, it looks like a huge fucker, so what do I replace this thing with? Thunderhawk would be way too big, stormeagle probably too small...

>>54779566
Do you really need one?

>>54779855
I dunno. Flyers are a big issue with custodes, since we can only do so much about them, so it wouldn't hurt to have one.

>>54774851
>Without sucker punching them
There is a sort of tactical element in getting the jump on someone and hitting them while they're not aware. Plus with the traitors being the aggressors, they sort of have to swiftly won their fights.

I do recall from Book 6 (that was Retribution right?), The SoH assault on the one star fort was apparently pretty well planned and executed (still a sucker punch style attack since it's their thing) but wasn't the star fort one of the biggest, if not the biggest in that segmentum?

>>54778606
>Didn't fix the lack of tassels
Well, guess I'll be looking for replacement shoulders for them

>>54779566
That's a Deathwatch flyer with rounded edges and the tank bits stuck on the sides. Which still looks nice.

>>54779566
They could have at least changed the crew hatch. Did they really not have any other way of doing the cockpit, except make the same thing they put on the tank and grav-transport?

>>54780955
I like it, it ties them all together.

>>54781031
In a very lazy way. Space Marine flyers don't need to have a Rhino front glacis plate to tie them together. Space Marines get to have Rhinos along with Javelins and Xiphons, all with their own design style.

>>54779855
>>54779888
Just take a marauder and paint it gold.

>>54781092
I fucking hate, and remain hating the Talons of the Emperor stuff. Not only are the rules daft, most of the stuff looks off to how I'd imagine it.

>>54781412
That's where conversions and substitutes come in.

Are these Solar Ogryns on 40mm or 50mm bases?

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>>54781655
Fuk I forgot the pic.

>>54781466
That doesn't fix the fact that the rules are completely stupid.

>>54781982
We all have our crosses to bear.

>>54781982
Apart from the fact that the rules have so many mistakes, oversights and dumb decisions in them they are mostly fine.
The Caladius is undercosted as fuck, though.

>>54781982
Custodes are fine, they have plenty of problems all over.

>>54782689
Having been on the business end of thier spammed jetbike bullshit I cant help but disagree.

>>54779566
That flyer looks familiar, like something out of an early 90s GW rulebook. I'll have to look for it...

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Just finished basing these fuckers. What are you guys working on?

>>54783951
Looking good fellow Bearer of the Word. I am working on some renegades to use as the cultists that fought on Calth. I'll post pictures as I work on them

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>>54782943
>>54782943
Yes, well, if your opponent spams powerful units and shit that's not so much an issue of the army as one of your opponent being a fuckwit.
Here's a handy guide: If a custodes player has more Caladii, Agamati and Telemon..es(?) than actual custodian squads, he's a dipshit and you can feel free to ridicule him or harass his army with flyers and hordes.

>>54765158
Mortarion

He's just a moody bastard who has no friends, doesnt like anything , doesnt enjoy anything and nobody likes him.
Moreover has set out to fuck over pshycic things despite him being partly a creature of the warp, his ships moving through the warp because of pshycic powers and the emperor being one. Not to mention how he actually ends up as a demon prince which entails pshycic powers.

His only thing is being tough and liking poison

>>54778700
basically yea

>>54778477
World eaters are gladiator culture, not no culture.

>>54784140
Nice. I've been looking into using the Frostgrave cultists with some las guns etc. as a cheaper alternative. Can't have a proper cult without pointy hats.

>>54774104
Check Shabran Darr from Legions book for some idea.
The WE's culture was basically the Butcher's Nails with everthing else being simply shades and hues.

>>54765247

After listening to betrayer i've started to like him, especially after he took down an ultramarines gunship by hurling his crozius at it

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Has anyone here tried building Space Wolves Destroyers? I'd be interested to hear what parts they used because I'm going full Black Cull.
The Deathsworn use wolf skull-shaped helmets for example, I guess the Destroyers use normal ones, and there's the "Horns of Winter" unit designation.

>>54784275
I'm not the previous Anon, but I got burnt pretty bad too by Custodes as well, but them being a waac-fag isn't what bothered me, it was more the fact that most Custodes lists just aren't fluffy.

Rarely did I ever see spear squads use, and the few times I did, I was told that they suck along with the terminators and sagittarum squads (which I do are with the last one, they need some love)

Then of course the fluff overhaul in terms of Custodes fighting capabilities only added to them being disliked by some, no longer was there the dynamic were the better individual fighters, but now they could also fight legions close to ten times their size or more and win.

Also knew a couple of Night Lords/Fist/SoH/LW players who don't like how cheap they got deepstrike on everything, especially the SoH/LW who based part of their strategy on teleporting strike/decapitating strikes only to have the Custodes do it way better

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Working on my Imperial Knight of Malinax, and currently the skeleton is black metal (leadbelcher + nuln) and I've been doing the same for the armour trim.

What wash should I use on the trim to differentiate it a bit from the skeleton? I was thinking about Athonian Camoshade, since I was going to use Agrax on the armour panels (probably Zandri Dust, layer Ushabti Bone, wash Agrax). Any better ideas? I was thinking about an edge drybrush of Abbadon Black or a grey colour too, but I'm really not sure what would look good.

>>54785208
I agree, if I see vanilla spear custodes I would be less rage inclined. But I will never see any spear bros, terminator bros or sagitarii. I'll only ever see bullshit minimum shield squads, insane jetbikes and turbo-tribunes.
One of the things that really pissed me off is they turned something pointed out as a weakness, that they don't act as a proper unit, but as individual warriors, and rules wise this was turned into a strength to make them less vulnerable to blasts.

>>54784275
>retarded hover wiesel AWC
i love it

>>54785208
>most Custodes lists just aren't fluffy
Fair. And sad, because fluffy custodes lists are good fun.

>I was told that they suck along with the terminators and sagittarum squads
Guardians and Saggitarum really kinda suck. I still play them, because a custodes force without Guardians isn't a custodes force at all.

>how cheap they got deepstrike on everything
Yes, that's super, but our non-vehicle shooting sucks balls, so that's not exactly the be-al, end-all here.

As for the fluff, the only actual bit we get about custodes is prospero, where they were in support of the wolves and had sisters of silence along, too. And custodes being better than marines is kinda their thing.

>>54784865
Those are really nice, I'll probably buy some when my army gets bigger. By the way, did Leman Russes and chimera based tanks exist in the Horus Heresy?

>>54785550
Them being better isn't an issue. Them being better and doing it for too cheap is (tribunes, bikers and all thier tanks immediately spring to mind). Combine this with making blasts less effective, no incentive to not MSU, and thier ability to cheaply and effectively neutralise deep strikers, while doing it more and more effectively than legions that supposedly specialise in the strategy... And that you never see an even passingly fluffly army, its going to give custodes a reputation of pure waac cancer sooner or later.

>>54785451
>>54785550
>>54785690
The combination of fluff damage from MoM with the whole, "they are actually able to fight a a grand scale without the emperor needing to lead them and are better than the legions at that level too" is what broke them for me. They were supposed to be bodyguards, assassins, politicians and spies, not a force capable of conquering the stars through direct conflict and brute force

Coupled with the fact they they have rules that should negate their weaknesses bothers me to no end and while having the ability to do other peoples specialties better really pushes it over

And it makes me so sad because I wanted to like the Custodes, they idea of a super elite army that wasn't Grey Knights (no psykers and all multi-wound models) seemed really cool to me. Hell, they were one of the first factions in the lore that I looked into when I got into 40k. But unlike every army in 40k, they're just so hard to work with it. They have no creative room for "your dudes" which absolutely kills them for me and is why I will be sticking with the legions (and any other 30k faction for that matter)

>>54786478
>MoM
In regards to MoM I didn't mind when the Custodes were effective against Daemons, I kind of like that, the idea of the custodes coming out on top in a chaotic brawl that ended up being based around each warriors individual skill. It suited them. When they started butchering legionaries, who by all accounts would change the rules and start wolf packing them, stalking individual custodes and dragging them down by working as brothers where they fought and died alone. It would have made thier retreat make a fuck of a lot more sense and the situation all the more desperate, thus raising the tension and making a better story.
tl:dr MoM would have been markedly improved if they showed the custodes as having the weakness that was first pointed the fuck out about them.

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>"No one cared who I was until I put on the mask."

>>54786478
>>54786478
Yeah, okay, but this is MoM we're talking about. Or garbage by another name.

>>54787217
>rebreather
Nice.

>>54787217
If he took it off would he die?

>>54787217

> Giant in solid armour
> Teeny wings filled with holes

>>54784447

>>54787308
Its warp magic, nurgle ain't gotta explain shit.

>>54787217
>isn't unreasonably large like magnus
Cool.

>>54787259
It would be extremely forgeworld.

>>54787498
He's a big Primarch

>>54787545
For Draigo

>>54763922
I have a desire for dropships.

New custodes one is hawt.

Am I bad person for wanting a stormbird? No I don't know how I'll construct a removable flying base.

Do you guys ever play games with thunderhawks? I'd imagine the LoW pts percentage kind of precludes it as an option most times.

>>54778962
>board your arteries like a space hulk

>>54786478
I was okay with MoM because they COULDN'T fight on that scale. They lost 90% of their number in 4-5 years, so it was clearly not a task they were well suited for. They were used out of desperation and practically died out for it.

Also, Mechanicum thralls and servitors were doing most of the work.

In game terms, I've seen a few players go with suboptimal options like Saggitarum Guard, and when I get around to building my BoP Custodes they'll definitely have spears. They're supposed to have spears, dammit. (I won't use them much, but since I'm doing White Scars I might as well play some Terra-themed battles.)

Some of their units do seem too good for the points. I get that they can't take casualties to the extent other armies can, and maaaybe that should reduce their unit point costs because they can all expect to take more fire, but still. They need some tweaking.

>>54787949
>Caladius AV13/12/11 and +75pts
>Agamatus +25pts
>Telemon can only switch one arm
>Guardians have their charge profile when charging and being charged
>Saggitarum gain Sniper and Relentless

>>54787736
Thunderhawks are terrible, why would you ever want to field one?

So what's the most underplayed legion in the game? Not counting the ones without full rules. .

>>54788160
I don't see many word bearers and iron hands

>>54788160
Salamanders and Raven Guard, I think.

>>54788152
For a thematic landing operation force or something. I've always liked the thunderhawk lander that had the tanks clipped under. I love how the Stormbird poops rhinos.

And is a flying turbo laser really that bad?

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>>54786848
>Lion vs Wolf-pack
Would love to see a fight like this at some point, a SoH/LW vs Custodes fights could be really cool

>>54787949
The Daemon/Webway are one thing, and I honestly don't think anything should truly be able to last that long in there to begin with. I do believe it was mentioned somewhere in there that the Custodes could take on the a legion and have a good chance at winning

>>54787949
>>54788102
The Spear are so sexy though, can't see why people wouldn't use them
Also like those rules fixes, would definitely helps parts of it but it still leaves a lot of the special rules/wargear related stuff though

>>54788102
>Agamatus
+50 points minimum.
>Tribunes
0-1, more expensive, don't have access to cyber familiars
>Something about those buttfucking shields.
>Caladius
Your mods are about right.
>Saggitarum
Precision shot somewhere.
>Telemon
again you are about right
>Guardians
Would be fine if the other stuff wasn't so fucking crazy.

>>54788271
When you can have a ground based one for cheaper theres no point.

>>54787736
I also adore dropships. Sadly, Mechanicum has none aside from the little Arvus, so I suppose I could convert an Arvus/Myrmidon/Secutarii drop force along with Thallax, Ursarax and such jetpacking in.

Or I could copy that one anon and use the Lord of War box to steal a Stormbird. Anyone know what happened with him? Whalebird sounded like a reasonable idea.

>>54788421
Whalebird anon spoke big but we all knew it would never happen. He left because I think he knew that too.

>>54788312
>Would love to see a fight like this at some point, a SoH/LW vs Custodes fights could be really cool
I agree, before ADB put on his waifu goggles with them such fights could have been incessantly interesting, but alas, the writing in MoM made that not a thing. Unless turbo charged Chaos Sons of Horus can engage them on the footing they originally had mapped out. (Needing a numbers advantage, but able to fight as a pack to bring down the Golden ones).

>>54788421
Yeah man they had to have a floor model lying around somewhere.

>>54788438
>he toils to this day

>>54788421
I dream of a flying blimp of steel, flesh and bone. Hurling half summoned daemons across the battlefield. (This is for dark mechanicum).

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>>54786478
>they have no creative room for "your dudes"
What? Why? Literally every single Custodes of mine has a name.
Left to right:
Ozalkes Lugh, Tizquar Kaupe
Arsaces Turris, Nabab Reshab, Drest Gama
Leontios Vidar, Eumenes Awha, Kadungon Lado

Granted, this is probably also somewhat over the top...

>>54788549
Fellow Custodes player here: he means that they all have a finite level of individuality because there are already so few of them and that most of them are already so super elite compared to the more numerous and customizable legionnaires.

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How do you see your Legion breaking down distinct from the Principia Belicosa?
I personally blend the Principia with the information put down or implied in the BL books.
So for me the XVI break down into 'Great Companies' of around 2000 men, which then break down into Battalions of 500, which then break down further into line companies/warbands of 50-200.

>>54778477
im not a fan of the roman theme, but i love the rest of the lore and how they play so i figured id blend a bit of my other favourite legion in.
by ganger i meant like more of a tribal look. spiked shoulders, bullet belts, red markings etc
>>54784967
i wish i knew what this comment meant

>>54765247
By Betrayer he's pretty badass. No more whining, replaced with Machiavellian scheming

>>54789652
I thought that the XVI went Legion, Company, Squad, with the Companies ranging from (the canon numbers anyways) 936 to 36 people

Been away from /tg/ related things for almost 9 months now. Is Thousand Sons out yet? If so how are they?

>>54791804
They came out in Inferno. Amazingly strong and almost OP at times. Very versatile lots of options.

>>54787217
What is everyone's thoughts on players using daemon prince models for their Primarchs? For Magnus it makes the most sense since he was only in his resin form for one battle during the Heresy.

>>54793806
It's fine for the seige. Angron and Fulgrim can be used before, of course.

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>>54787217
I might pick him up and paint him in his proper colors.

Fuck psykers :^)

>>54781683
regular ogryn are on 40mm, but I'm pretty sure those guys are on 50mms

>>54787217
Do we know release date?

What does the mechanican have thats good for fighting primarchs.

>>54795074
>feed him blobs of thralls to tie any primarch down forever
>fighting their own cost in beep-boops is not a pleasent propsect for most
>droplites to fry their expensive transport, leaving them stranded
>ordinatus if you just don't care anymore
>Scoria if you want to throw down

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Does Matt Kane have the most impressive 30k army in existence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGp5YBBAaY

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Because I'm autistic I'm writing a fluff document for my forces. Rate the front page.

I'm not a drawfag

>>54795642
Yep, I really love his Guilliman.

>>54790618
Which I'd agree with if they didn't imply that 10th Company was around 2000 strong in the first trilogy of the HH books. So I just done went and blended to two. That and things like Catulan Reaver company were supposed to be part of Abaddons first company. I just started blending things together.

>>54795642
wow thats amazing. Are there more pics?

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>>54796135
In the video they go through all his units but you can just google Matt Kane Ultramarines.

>>54795642
A shame he paints the worst legion

>>54796276
I've never seen blue Word Bearers before

>>54796276
His Space Wolves are really weird looking.

>>54796276
night lordsa are a darker shade of blue

>>54796276
Silly dude, Iron Warriors are gunmetal.

>>54796435
He said worst legion not worst Primarch.

>>54796468
But Mortarion isn't the Primarch of the Iron Warriors.

>>54796494
>Mortarion
funny way to spell Russ

>>54796509
>>54796494
>>54796468
>>54796435
>>54796346
>>54796318
>>54796298
can't beat a bit of legion/primarch banter to start the day

>>54795931
Looking noice mate.

The wing is well done. I've tried drawing pretty much exactly the same thing once before and I got stuck on the wings and gave up. So keep going!

>>54796557
The wing was difficult, I kept drawing what I though wings looked like rather than what they actually did look like. I found a good picture of an angel statue for reference and tried to copy that as much as possible. I'm considering getting a professional commission of it depending on the price.

>>54796435
I will set a bonfire, and it will be my revenge.
Bitterness isn't just a state of mind.
Bitterness is another word for revenge.
One day, bitterness will consume me, and take over my world.

>>54796876
I'm glad you feel that way. Stop being worst Legion and fucking up the only siege that mattered.

>>54796873
>I kept drawing what I though wings looked like rather than what they actually did look like.
That was my problem too. Except I got too fed up with it to be arsed going back to it.

>>54796113
Forge World changed a lot of that in the Black Books

>>54797434
I know, I just do what I always do with conflicting fluff, steal the bits I like from both and blend them.

>>54794011
t-hanks

Whats a suitably nurgle equivalent for Thallaxi?

>>54799635
I'm considering the lesser blight drones from the 40k boxed set (at least with the idea of them coming out seperate). As part of a Nurgle tainted Reductor force.

>>54799635
Why not just nurgle up a regular thallax? Add rust and corrosion to the metal work, carve three circles in them and try to find some horns or antlers for the head/shoulder area.

Nurgle doesn't exclusively mean fat AoS/nuGW models.

I've read somewhere that the legion lists play a lot like Eldar aspect warriors. THat said, which legion plays the most like Eldar?

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>>54770767
>OP SoH list against average/background IW list
>significan win

Unexpected as the water in the sea

>>54800207
What do eldar play like?

>>54800207
essentially you have very few generalist squads (Veterans are really the only ones, and technically the Terminators too), everything else is usually a specialized squad of one type or another.

>>54800491
Are 20 marine tactical/despoiler blobs just shit then?
I remember them being a selling point back when HH was announced, but I haven't kept up with anything

What legion is best for massed dreadnoughts and terminators? They're my favourite models.

>>54800578
They're not shit, they're objective anchors and massed shooting, they fill a niche, and having plenty of bodies on the field is usually a good thing.

>>54797434
Yeah, I think FW increased the number of marines by 5-10x when they started the black books.

>>54800263
Oh no I used veterans in an army that allowed veterans as troops. So op. If I spammed combi weapons I'd agree. But veterans in and of themselves arent op.

>>54801083
Outflank works particularly well with the SoH legion rules.

Generally speaking, I think Veterans shouldn't have gotten the price cut they got in the current red book. Tacticals needed it, but not Vets. One of the goals of list-building right now is not having to take regular Tacticals, and it's rare for Support Tacticals to look better than Vets so they get avoided too.

>>54800578
Like >>54800690 said, they are an anchor unit. Give them an apothecary and they can become frustrating as hell to move. Catch is though, a lot of people began to bring blast weapons because of the harder enemies to crack which meant that if something like a Medusa wasn't firing at a tank or heavy infantry, you faced losing a rather expensive tactical squad per turn (they could easily be 300+pts for twenty of them)

>>54800662
DG like massed termies. They do not mass dreads I don't think. Just average amount maybe

Would it break the game to give Dreadnoughts the Legiones Astartes special rule?

>>54793973
Speaking of, how tall is the FW Mortarion model? I can't find any answer online and comparison pictures only go so far.

>>54801696
It's pretty easy to judge his size from the picture. Just compare him to the plague marines.

>>54801739
I need an exact measure, not an estimation.

>>54801863
Then you'll have to wait until he's released.

>>54801960
I do hope you're not talking about the GW model, when I specifically said "FW Mortarion."

What are your hopes and expectations for the upcoming Open Day?

>>54802170
>hopes

8e rules.

>expectations

Pictures of something new that has no use for me.

>>54802032
I was, my bad.

>>54778983
This is basically GW's core business model, why are you surprised?

>>54785208
IFs have never had a problem dealing with custodes. It's nice being the Emperors favorite.

>>54802285
In what way?

>>54802974
How do you manage that? What's your list like?

>>54786478
I don't actually see the problem, these two aspects of the Custodes are not incompatible.
Before Blood Game the Custodes were just ultra-uber-powerful warriors far above space Astartes and basically nothing else. The whole "Custards don't fight as an army" was first from McNeil and ADB and never prevented the golden bananas from slaughtering stuff like the murdermachines they were expected to be since the Visions of Heresy stuff.

The only assumptions that Custodes suck at large scale war are made by Astartes who know probably nothing about the Legio structure and capabilities while the Custodes surely have plenty of data about how the Astartes wage war, AL style.

The shit is, destroying a Legion is useless if you lose almost all your guys in the process and can't replenish your forces before decades. That's why Custodes are not meant to be a conquest force.

>>54802974
>Seeker and Combi Veteran spam
>Medusas and Phosphex

Kidding, but I am curious as to how you manage it

>>54763922

What's the worst thing to happen to HH?

> Thousand Sons
> Adeptus Custodes
> Phosphex Rapiers
> Legatine Axes, Power Glaives and Assault Cannons
> Something else

>>54804071
Black Library.

>>54804071
Bligh's death.

>>54804071
all of the above, plus named characters in non-campaign settings

>>54804071
Chain axes

>>54804071
>hating on leviathan assault cannon nipples
Pleb opinion tbqh.

>>54802974
>>54804058
Terminators beat custards through attrition plus my dudes have the same teleport as they do and I still have points left over for scoring units while the rest of the field is tarpitted.

And as was mentioned, seekers are fucking great for drowning them in armor saves.

File: 40k__eater_of_worlds_by_wibblethefish-d5pg6p8.jpg (418KB, 1200x674px) Image search: [Google]

418KB, 1200x674px

>>54804223
delete this

>>54804071
>thousand sons
Shorten that to Magnus

>Adeptus Custodes
Not that bad on the tabletop but every special snowflake loves to play them.

>Phosphex Rapiers
No argument.

>Legatine Axes, Power Glaives and Assault Cannons
Cancer, but not game ruining.

>>54804071
>Smurf axes

Only thing I hate about them is the fact that Phalanx Warders don't have a comparitive axe. It would make them function as they were intended.

>>54804071
The fact that Praetors suck and will never get fixed

>>54804211
>named characters in non-campaign settings
They're not all bad. I wouldn't exactly get mad at someone for running Decima or Inar Satarael, for instance, and Word Bearers basically need Zardu, Kor Phaeron or Erebus if they want to have any free HQ slots.

>>54804223
not if they are free :^)

>>54804071
Staying in 7th

>>54804071
Imperium Secundus Namek.

Bitterboy here. Do you think it's excessive to haul around 20-man tactical squads in Spartans? Considering it as an alternative to hunkering down behind some cover.

>>54806002
It's unusual to do so, but I've seen it done with Breachers and I can see it working with tacticals. Give or buy them chainswords. The Spartan will have to make good use of its lascannons to be worth the points.

It's more common with Kharybdises, which are cheaper and still pretty damn awesome.

>>54806002
I've done 19 tact's and an apothecary in a storm eagle the other night, was pretty sweet both narrative wise and performance wise.

What are some cheap weapons that have pinning with them? I could have sworn havoc launchers forced the check but I was wrong.