Why does nobody want to play a jedi anymore? Even if people want

File: grey jedi.jpg (117KB, 542x767px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 542x767px

>>54761080
thats a but of an over generalization given that i personally love playing as jedi

my players dont really know the EU, and they love being good guys, so they probably wouldnt choose grey jedi

In the Clone Wars cartoon, which is still canon, Palpatine tried to prove to Ahsoka the ineffectiveness of the Jedi by tricking the council into executing an innocent clone trooper who was about to reveal Order 66. That's what started it.

If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are at last ready to accept life's fundamental truth: that life's only purpose is life itself.

>>54761080
>Did I miss when people started hating them?
No one hates them, but they suffer from Good Guy Disease.

ie: Teenagers think good guys are boring, and a lot of adults want to explore characters that are a bit more complicated than "always wants to do the 'right thing' and btw there is always an objectively 'right thing' to do"

You can do that while playing a Jedi, but Star Wars is a setting that, despite the existence of Jedi, has blurred morals baked into it.

Nobody ever wanted to play jedi, they just wanted to play the character that has powers

>>54761080
In 5e I made a LN/LG hexblade warlock with his patron being sorta "philosophy of the blade", when picking cantrips I took mage hand because that was most useful for the party. Halfway through the session I realized I unconsciously made a jedi.

File: Kreia.jpg (865KB, 980x1436px) Image search: [Google]

865KB, 980x1436px

>>54761080
As time went on with Star Wars, the Jedi were made out more and more to be sort of hypocritical and blinded by their own self-righteousness. While it would be a mistake to call them the "bad guys" like the Sith are, calling them the "good guys" is also a bit difficult. They're a cult of dogma and tradition that's unable to effectively adapt to changing times, fight the the threats against the people they're sword to protect, or even see those threats right in front of them. Even in the movies, part of the reason Count Dooku left the Jedi Order was because he was disgusted at how they blindly defended corrupt senators and Republic representatives who abused their positions for personal gain. The games and other expanded universe media kinda build on these themes to the point where the Jedi start to look more like pretentious authoritarians than servants of the people or the Force itself.

from my point of view, the Jedi are evil.

>>54761080
People don't hate Jedi, they just see ways they can get the lightsaber and not have to follow rules by going grey or "reformed Sith"

>>54761184
But Luke's totally the goodest guy.

File: Roleplaying Games.jpg (111KB, 531x800px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 531x800px

>>54761339
It's worth noting that Luke was not trained as the typical jedi, and by the looks of the trailers for the new movies... doesn't believe in their ways entirely either.

At the risk of sounding like /pol/ here, Jedi philosophy fails for the same reason abstinence-only views on sex fail. The Jedi basically steal away children before they're too young to make their own choices, then brainwash them their whole life that emotions are bad and wrong and dangerous... but emotions are a part of being human, of being sentient. Now you have all these force-trained teenagers later in life who are feeling these feelings, trying to supress them because they don't know what else to do, and when that pressure finally builds up and snaps them, they literally don't know any healthy way to cope or deal with those feels... so they become prone to extremes and easily manipulated by the Dark Side.

The Jedi teach that love is selfish and evil. They need to teach that love is what makes life worth living, what will save you, not damn you.

They need to teach how to properly deal with emotions, not to suppress and despise them and live some half-alive "life" of self-assured denial. Passion destroys, but it also inspires and creates and makes good in the world too.

>>54761388
But anon, don't you see, the Jedi Order is low-key a death cult.

>There is no Death, only the Force.

>people talking about what is and isn't canon
friendly reminder canon is shit
Also I have two players in my game who aren't technically Jedi but may as well be, they're packing lightsabers and a 90-100 place on the F&D morality scale

File: 1455523910410.jpg (214KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 600x620px

>>54761426
Anakin Skywalker is 100% canon and still a shining example of what happens when you give a teenager who's never been taught emotional coping skills a bunch of space magic and delusions about being something special.

>>54761519
The plot of the prequels makes no sense at all, and I still have no idea how Anakin went from "I need to save my wife" from "I need to murder children, wipe out my friends and serve this creepy weirdo, who just revealed to me that he orchestrated the whole war" in the span of two minutes.
The entire trilogy better be forgotten. I hope The Last Jedi salvages the jedi and trashes the "le emotionless robots" meme.

>>54761519
Yes, and?
I never said the Jedi Order wasn't some retarded-ass shit, just that players aren't all edgelords refusing to move from their spot on the border of light and dark.
Hell, they got mad when one of their comrades decided to blast a captured Imperial agent with lightning and risk her dying on them because interrogation wasn't going well.

File: laughing james.jpg (26KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 500x333px

>>54761580
>nucanon shit
>salvaging anything

>>54761610
EU was garbage, and deserved what it got.

File: Garik_Loran_NEGTC.jpg (154KB, 744x1600px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 744x1600px

>>54761622
Shut your filthy whore mouth, you know nothing of what you speak.

File: xt659th1rcez.jpg (33KB, 750x591px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 750x591px

>>54761080
Good is overplayed and overrated

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

>emotionless

Why do people immediately go to "The Jedi are trying to become unfeeling machines" instead of "The Jedi are trying to set themselves apart from the temptations of worldliness, like the Buddhist monks they are ostensibly based on"?

Seriously its just the core philosophy of "Attachment leads to suffering, freedom from suffering comes when you free your self from attachment" dressed up in space mumbo jumbo

>>54761638
Even nostalgia glasses can't change the fact that the majority of the EU was shite. Was some of it really good, sure. But that doesn't change the fact that most of it wasn't.

>>54761080
good guys vs bad guys is kinda simplistic and you can tell it's something that was created in the 70s (when standard fantasy was also good paladin against monsters and evil shit).
Fiction as a whole kinda went past that idealization phase (see for example Watchmen, the rise of the character Drizzt, a song of ice and fire) now anti-heroes or grey morality stories are all the rage.

>>54761666
And practically all of what's been coming out since has been irredeemable dogshit. The only good thing I've seen is maybe Thrawn.
Don't even try to defend Helicopter Sabers and Space Aladdin: the Show.

>>54761080
Yoda's stance on how jedi should live their lives is not appealing. At all.

At least to me the philosophy of Jedis doesn't make sense in the first place. Spending your love as a figurative rock to not interfere in the business of others is plain nuts.

File: 1500427671002.jpg (127KB, 724x678px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 724x678px

>>54761642
Because mindless hedonism and feelgood bullshit is too important for moderate society to lose

Just imagine if people started doing productive things instead of slacktivism and talking about politics, the world would break in two!

>>54761696
Too bad the Jedi didn't actually DO much either, that was one of their biggest flaws. "Wait-and-see" while millions are dying, and then just being like "LOL, IT'S OK BECAUSE THEY GO BACK TO THE FORCE ANYWAY!"

"Productive" does not describe the Jedi to any degree.

>>54761642
Because they're hypocrites. They claim to want to set themselves apart from worldliness while claiming their responsibilities and reason for existing is for the sake of the world. It's all a lie they feed to themselves to justify their own warped sense of "righteousness".

It's not that the Jedi want to be unfeeling machines, it's that the emotion they want to feel is that they're right, and then they use their "detachment" as an excuse to be above any kind of counter argument, viewpoints, or consequences.

>>54761696
More like because as Luke and Anakin discovered, you can't deny all attachments to the galaxy at large. You still have friends, relatives, people that matter to you as more than just a face in the crowd.
That is the flaw with such a philosophy: nobody exists in a vacuum.

>>54761693
Go back to the roots, go to daoism. The Force is literally just the Dao. The interesting question is how to resolve violence with this worldview.

Isn't the word jedi from a Japanese word Lucas just changed a bit?

To answer your question OP I think many anons ITT have raised good points. The Jedi are viewed not so much as evil as they are inefficient, blundering, and weak. Its one thing to play attached to a morality, another to be attached to one that you (as a player) find to be hypocritical and/or nonsensical.
In the star wars RP at my FLGS I really really want to play a non Sith dark side user who is truly evil... Just not an edgelord. Somebody who believes the ends justifies the means and that order and might are the foundations of a truly functional society that allows for self-deception entire. A team player, as well. I just can't do it because there are no real Dark Side rules yet for the system they're running which means I'll probably join next campaign arc as a non-Force user support character

>>54761080
The Jedi code is unappealing. It's a unclear mish-mash of several philosophies mixed in with vague religious and spiritual elements, topped with the fact that they operate like an insane cult makes them hard to like. When it was just Luke and a creepy old green puppet it was all well and good, but the more they get expanded on the more they're horrifying.

To put it in perspective, I'm a member of a nearly 2000 year old apocalyptic death cult, and try to practice it in a very orthodox manner. Yet the restrictions on my life are nowhere near as extreme as the Jedi, and if I manage to wrestle my own sins to the ground and willingly take vows adding more extreme restrictions to my life, it would still be less extreme than the Jedi. The only way I could match those crazy fuckers is if I strapped myself to a pillar in the desert, but even then I would still be allowed to love. They're expressly forbidden from forming attachments that could lead to love. The idea of taking children from their homes and teaching them that love is wrong is a deeply disturbing thought that I can't get over.

>>54761103
Grey Jedi were a thing in the EU far before the Clone Wars cartoon was even concieved. It's a stupid concept, but it's not in any way new.

We live in a culture that feels need the to critique and subvert EVERYTHING that is traditionally "good", and explore and exonerate everything traditionally consider "bad". Nothing is allowed to be A or B, everything has to be some shady middle ground or it is considered "cliche" or childish. Meanwhile in reality, people who are genuinely fucking awful for no reason actually exist, and forced moral ambiguity is played out as fuck.

File: facebook weekly.jpg (129KB, 793x960px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 793x960px

>>54761080
Children believe that behaving as you are supposed to behave "good" is a punishment and getting to behave contrary to have you are supposed to behave "bad" is a reward.

This explains everything you need to know about "autism", why everyone is a fatass, and all the other problems that children (and adults who never grew up) suffer from recently

>>54761122
>If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras
It doesn't. It's a cycle. One generation get tired by the constant black-and-white morality hero stories of the previous one and instead start buying into the grey-and-grey morality anti-hero stories. And then the next generation grows tired of that and starts buying into black-and-white morality hero stories once more.

>perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species
No, and the thought that it might be is if anything a sign of the opposite.

>>54761825
Yep, it's Jidai which refers to an era typically. Ie Sengoku Jidai would refer to the Age of Warring States. It's used to label a type of historical genre of films that Lucas drew inspiration from. A New Hope was heavily drawn from a film, can't remember it's name, in which a pair of prisoners in a castle must save a princess I think?

>>54761900
You need to lay off the memes. It's not the Jedis hate love, it's just that if you are a Jedi you are expected to put being a Jedi above your personal relationships. With great power comes great responsibility, and what happened with Anakin and Padme shows why letting Jedi get their dick wet is a bad idea

File: and then I actually thought about it.gif (2MB, 448x352px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 448x352px

>>54762038
What happened between Anakin and Padme shows why it's a bad idea not to teach Jedi PROPER EMOTIONAL COPING SKILLS.

Like another anon said, the Jedi Code fails for the same reason Abstinence-Only sex-ed fails. Abstinence is hard, some people are gonna fuck it up, and not having a "Plan B" for then the Plan Abstinence fails is a very bad idea.

>>54761984
the hidden fortress?

Is Lucas' divorce the reason for the jedi's abstinence?

>>54761388
I think you're misrepresenting them a bit there. They don't say love or any emotion is evil. They just frown on attachment and emphasize control and balance. That's not bad in and of itself, and it's even quite a bit more lenient than the Christian and Buddhist monks they're inspired by.

Really, obvious fuck-ups aside, the Jedi are hardly repressed or incapable of dealing with emotions. Their main problem seems to be just too much contemplating their navels and too little listening to what's going on in the galaxy. It's a meme that I think came out of this sttuborn idea that the dark and light must be in balance and have parity both in power and philosophy, whereas in the movies the Jedi are the obvious sensible dudes and Sith are always screaming autists.

>>54761984
The Hidden Fortress by Kurosawa

And holy shit now I see the parallels

>>54761825
>>54761984
That sounds an awful lot like Lucas' usual post hoc explanation for stuff in Star Wars to make them sound way more thought out than they actually were.

>>54762102
If they emphasized control and balance, their adherents would actually be able to deal with difficulties in their lives instead of falling harder than a Lawful-Stupid DnD Paladin who just killed an Orc baby.

Only Americans like black-white stories.

>>54761730
I have no knowledge of star Wars but here we go arguing...

Okay, while that is still true those kinds of philosophies such as Buddhism and stoicism usually also preach love to all men as far as I'm aware of. Yes, you can be closer to a friend than a what's his face on a crowd but you are supposed to love equally both. Also things such as death/poverty/pain are usually seen clearly as not preferable but they should be indifferent.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense but follow me.

The world is ruled by a benign being such as God, the Force, Nature, The Universe, the Common Good or Providence, and, if they are truly good, they won't make good things happen to bad people.

At the same time pain/poverty/fame/fortune/pleasure happen to both good and bad people. Then it is not really hard to suppose that those things are neither good or bad, but indifferent and when a person in his mistaken beliefs judges the life of a friend something 'good' rather than 'preferable' he is bound to suffer since he can loose it to external factors that are never on his control and then blame the gods or whatever.

What then could be considered to be good?
To such philosophies the only thing that are gifted (and are inherently) to a good person and that cannot be harvested by an evil(read ignorant taking platonic grounds where stoicism developed from) one is virtues.
Therefore, to live a happy life you should not make your happiness depend on external factors that many times are out of your control and depend only to God or the Force, but on the cultivation of virtues in your everyday life and inner strength.
And what are virtues?
Rightful beliefs that are in according to that all powerful being. To live according to Nature/God/The Force

>>54761974
Ate the pasta

>>54761122

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Chairman Yang the wise?

>>54762512
No.

File: Dakka.gif (1MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 480x270px

>>54761080
To be completely frank, I just prefer guns.

>>54761580
>This brown greenish shit is better than that green brownish shit
Nucanon is as bad as old EU, it's also astonishing that they managed to spout that steaming pile of shit in such short time while it took decades for old EU

>>54761080
>Why does nobody want to play a jedi anymore? Even if people want to play the good guys, it's always the "grey jedi" or noble sith, or something like that, never simply jedi.
>Did I miss when people started hating them?
Because the B I G H E R O in Star Wars, Luke Skywalker is a GREY JEDI?

>Jedi
Sorry, I only play snipers or masters of teras kassi. Jedi are gay and ineffective.

File: dean_facepalm.jpg (16KB, 289x313px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 289x313px

>>54761122
>perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species.
>maturity as a sentient species.
>sentient species
>sentient
Well it certainly isn't a sign of our ability to learn proper vocabulary.

File: this.gif (446KB, 300x186px) Image search: [Google]

446KB, 300x186px

>>54762577

>>54761122
/his/ Please fuck off

You used to be cool

>>54761080

>Why does nobody want to play a jedi anymore?

What? When I ran my campaign 3/4 of the players were jedi.

>>54762521
I thought not. It's not a story the Peacekeepers would tell you.

>>54761122
Men in their arrogance claim to understand the nature of creation, and devise elaborate theories to describe its behavior. But always they discover in the end that God was quite a bit more clever than they thought.

>>54762521
I thought not. It's not a story the Peacekeeping Forces would tell you.

File: [maximum discardment].gif (712KB, 600x525px) Image search: [Google]

712KB, 600x525px

>>54762667
>God
Okay Achmed. Don't you have a plane to 9/11 or some shit?

File: 1502160772670.jpg (976KB, 1500x1000px) Image search: [Google]

976KB, 1500x1000px

>>54762696
>has never played alpha centauri

>>54762745
>ever playing as that fucking retarded ginger cunt

I pride myself in having played every faction to death except the fucking durkadurkakikes.

>>54762757
Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment.

>>54762560
This, desu. In a world of space wizards (because every time I've played a Star Wars game the party is always several flavors of force-users) I like to be the guy with the big gun that kills things so hard they die to death.

>>54762757
Deirdre or Zakharov a best, jesusfags and militants get bent

>>54762786
>Play a Force-sensitive pistolero
>Have a gun that can only be fired using the Force and is even more accurate when fired at living beings with a Force resonance
This is why FFG is best

>>54762577
>>54762594
Wait, really?

>>54762819
Considering he rejected both his teachers going "killll himmmm" when it came to his dear old dad, the case can be made.

>>54762686
It's a Hive legend. Chairman Yang was a leader of the Human Hive, so powerful and so wise he could use social engineering to run Police State without inefficiency... He had such a knowledge of nerve stapling that he could even keep the Drones he cared about from rioting.

>>54762819
No, it's fanon. Grey jedi is not even a thing in current canon.

>>54762897
I reiterate:
>>54761426
>canon is shit

>>54761080
Jedi were ruined by the prequels. Their code is retarded and they all act like idiots.

Luke Skywalker acted nothing like these feebs and turned out to be the greatest Jedi ever, so clearly the Jedi institution of the Old Republic is absolutely pig retarded.

>>54762819
>doesn't listen to joda and obi at all
>almost turns to the dark side
>gets his shit together and goes back to the light side
>pulls his dad back to the light side

He's a "grey" jedi.

>>54763851
No, he's a smart jedi who won. That doesn't make him grey.

File: Huxisanxiaotu.jpg (449KB, 724x400px) Image search: [Google]

449KB, 724x400px

>>54761080

The problem with Jedi is once again the Force has an immediate misunderstanding of its basic nature. It's clear Lucas borrowed a lot of concept from Japanese film and as such eastern mythology but since he (and many others) are dumb westerners who didn't bother to study anything beyond that it simply became a binary "Light side good/dark side bad" thing like Christian belief systems and not what it actually represents which is more like Taoism.

In essence: Taoism states that the world has a simplicity to it. A universal perfection like a still pond. When you work with the universe, as per the precepts of wuwei, then you are following a divine order which flows and inadverdently helps others, or at least follows what the universe desires.

When you attempt to force your way to what your goal is without thought or consideration or work AGAINST the universe then you merely harm those around you. You kill people, endanger innocents, bring about the wrath of the gods, etc

That's why the concept of "grey jedi" is dumb. It ONLY works if you subscribe to a good/evil axis which the light side/dark side MAYBE is but it's not based on intent it's based on action.

File: IMG_0061.jpg (132KB, 736x965px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 736x965px

>>54761080
Sith are always more fun

>>54761211
You have equally strong feelings about sand, so how serious can we take your opinions, really?

>>54762152
haha, i see what you did there.

>>54763883
>smart jedi
Impossible to be a smart jedi.

If you use the force and you're smart, you're either a sith lord or you're "other".

>>54761080
Based on my time roleplaying in SWTOR, it seems to be a few factors from what I witnessed.

1) Some people misunderstand the Jedi Code, like some anons in this thread. In particular, the line, "There is no emotion, there is peace." A lot of people seem to take that as meaning that Jedi are taught not to have emotion, but that's untrue. All of the Jedi in the movies show many range of motion, including anger. This part of the Jedi Code means that you shouldn't let emotions control you, having them is fine and normal. Hell, in the old canon the Dark Woman largely purged/suppressed her emotions, and many of her fellow Jedi saw her as a sort of extremist.

A lot of people don't like this perceived lack of emotion because it seems boring.

2) As some anons pointed out, some people find the straight-forward good guy archetype boring, so they look for ways to make a Force using character that is a but "edgier," usually again misunderstanding the Jedi. Being on the light side of the Force does not mean you are Rainbow Bright. It means you can't be a sociopath, sure, but you can be stern and condescending, such as Vrook Lamar and Mace Windu.

3) Special Snowflake Syndrome is also a big part of it, similar to point 2. Some find the straight-laced Jesi boring, so they aik for weird twists on Force using characters like the light sides Sith or the "grey" Jedi (despite the fact that there is no "grey side of the Force," and that the term Grey Jedi just refers to a Jedi that does not always follow the Council; Grey Jedi are very much on the light side, such as Qui-Gon Jinn and Jolee Bindo). Turning to the "grey side" is called the "dark side in denial."

>>54765004
But anon, all sith lords are clinical idiots, especially Sheev.

>>54765084
>Mace Windu
Who was as fucking GREY as you can get while being a member of the Jedi Council. He fucking had killing techniques he developed himself that would have gotten him cast out of the Jedi order if anyone saw him use them.

>>54765128
Stop it. Grey jedi are a stupid meme, and they do not exist.

File: tumblr_mnff50ySX11rey868o1_500.gif (962KB, 500x213px) Image search: [Google]

962KB, 500x213px

>>54765128
>He fucking had killing techniques he developed himself that would have gotten him cast out of the Jedi order if anyone saw him use them.

You are the third most retarded person I've ever seen on 4chan.

>>54765128
Mace Windu was still firmly on the light side, edgy techniques aside. Not as far as Yoda or Ki-Adi-Mundi, but still light. There is no such thing as the "grey side."

>>54761080
It's because the prequels fucked them up so badly. Before, we knew they were a mysterious peacekeeping order who had a mystical connection to the universe and magic later swords. Afterwards, we realized they all had their heads up their asses about pretty much everything, and got rolled by an elderly politician.

> Be doing Star Wars freeform roleplay (I was 16, don't judge me)
> Dark siders are kicking our asses, have at least 75% of the galaxy conquered
> Start approaching other anti-Dark Siders to see about setting up a mutual defense pact
> A couple Jedi agree, mainstream Jedi are getting demolished so they don't have a choice
> Approach the Grey Jedi
> "YOU'RE A BUNCH OF EMOTIONLESS ROBOTS"
> "THE DARK SIDE ISN'T BAD OKAY IT'S OKAY TO USE DARK MAGIC IF YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT FUZZY FEELINGS"
> "How is this related to the problem at hand?"
> "IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE SITH LORDS CONQUER THE GALAXY HOW IS THAT MY PROBLEM"
> Check user statistics
> Sith Lords 56%, Jedi 10%, Grey Jedi 34%

I'm still emotionally scarred by that conversation.

>>54765361
NO ONE IS SAYING THERE IS A GREY SIDE, YOU FUCKING RETARD!

A "grey" jedi is simply a jedi that follows the FORCE, not the Jedi council.

Windu was a grey jedi, Quigon was a grey jedi. Luke Skywalker was a grey jedi.

>>54765533
Windu was ON the Council. Saying he doesn't follow the Council is fucking retarded.

Luke didn't HAVE a Council to follow. He had Yoda and Obi-Wan.

>>54761580
I'm pretty sure that in oldcanon, he was suffering from something like 2 weeks of sleep deprivation (roughly equivalent to doing a kegstand with absinthe) and Palps was deliberately goading him into not trusting anyone else.

>>54763741
>Luke Skywalker acted nothing like these feebs and turned out to be the greatest Jedi ever

What was so great about Luke?
He didn't even kill the Emperor.

>>54765573
>Luke didn't HAVE a Council to follow. He had Yoda and Obi-Wan.
Who both had learned and followed Council teachings. And then they learned Luke the Council teachings and he took a big crap over it, used his anger as a force, reeled himself in and dragged his dad back out of the Dark side.

>>54765533
First of all, anon, take a deep breath.

Second of all, I misunderstood, I apologise.

Because Maul made being a renegade sith cool. Because Qui-Gon made pissing in the face of the jedi council look like a jolly good lark.

>>54765619
Except they didn't teach him Council teachings. In fact Yoda's whole arc is how the Council was wrong in a number of ways and how the Jedi have gone wrong under his guidance. For fuck's sake he even says that the Jedi have grown arrogant in their power.

Nothing whatsoever in ESB shows that he's teaching Luke Council-approved stuff. A good portion of his material he teaches Luke is pretty much against what he is like in the PT, and that's because of the hard lessons he learned during the Clone Wars.

And Obi-Wan? Obi-Wan didn't teach him shit about anything. He had like one "real" lesson from Obi-Wan.

The closest you could come to saying that Luke took a shit on their lessons is the whole attachments thing about not going to save his friends - but you know what? Luke learned the hard way that they were right. He didn't help his friends escape. That was all Lando. The only things Luke got out of that situation was a missing hand and the truth of his parentage.

And when he left to go to Endor, they didn't say that Luke had to kill Vader - Yoda said he must confront him. Which he did.

File: jared-25-owns-at-least-6-fedoras-moderates-reddit-with-18510293.png (111KB, 500x610px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 500x610px

>>54761122

File: 1444372438311.jpg (18KB, 500x501px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 500x501px

>>54762696
>believing in god makes you muslim

>>54761080
Because jedi are even more boring versions of paladins

>>54761080
Because the Force as a moral entity is as fucking stupid as lightsabers are cool.

Are you really confused why people would want the benefits of space magic and laser swords without wanting to follow a nonsensical and arbitrary moral code? Really?

the jedi council were so firmly lodged up their own asses they couldn't make this connection:
>The chosen one is destined to bring balance to the force
>The sith are all but eradicated
>Light-side-of-the-force users are the predominant force
>Bringing balance to the force means A FUCKING BALANCE of light and dark

>>54762084
It's our nature to put our families above abstract ideals. No amount of emotional counciling can prepare you for coming home from a mission to find a note saying "we have your family, put this thermal detonator in the Jedi temple or we'll blow their brains out."

Also Jedi having offspring would eventually lead to nepotism, and powerful force sensitive dynasties who regularly rub shoulders with replubic officials. Also shit like Kylo Ren

>>54761388
>They need to teach that love is what makes life worth living, what will save you, not damn you.
This is a stupid thing to say.
Love is not a good thing. It just feels good.

What really should be taught is that most people don't have wills of iron. If anything their wills are more like wet toilet paper. Most people are not capable of detachment, and so are driven to act in accordance with their worldly attachments.

Thus, they damn themselves to worldly struggle and will never achieve vision into the immaterial, that which lies beyond the human corpus.

The Jedi, if anything, are too lenient. They should be more exclusive, but sadly they too are not interested in spreading enlightenment. Truth be told, ones who've achieved enlightenment would not necessarily spread it, as there would be no real point. The Jedi seek, instead, to consolidate their influence. They speak highly of their ideals but they're all hypocrites.

>>54761580
>being stoic means you're a robot
nice meme senpai

>>54768707
That's not what balance means.

And in fact, that's directly contradicted by the prequels.

It's repeatedly stated that the dark side is overwhelming the Jedi - even before the Clone Wars started. Yoda mentions he can't see the future because of a shroud of the dark side, and Mace says that their ability to use the Force is diminished.

And then Obi-Wan after disarming Anakin says that he was supposed to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness.

>>54761730
That's not a flaw with the philosophy you dingus. The entire point of the philosophy is that you DO feel that way, but you shouldn't, because you cannot justify it morally. If you would give preference to your closest, the only reason would be that they matter more to you, and then you're just advocating hedonism.

>>54761080
Why did anyone want to play a Jedi in the first place? They're just low key psychics with weird swords. I assume it was just name recognition, and now that the movies have been out for 40 years it's probably lost a lot of its allure.

>>54762838
Is it possible to learn this power?

>>54769008
Not from Lal.

>>54768940
>And then Obi-Wan after disarming Anakin says that he was supposed to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness.
well, I mean, at that point there were 2 jedi and 2 sith left, seems fairly balanced to me. Just because the two remaining jedi decided to send themselves into exile and fucking pout for the next 20 years instead of doing something doesn't mean that the force wasn't in balance.

>>54765617
He reawakened the good in Vader and caused Anakin to fulfill his Sith-destroying destiny.

>>54768940
>>54769026
This. If anything the Jedi were the retards who misunderstood the nature of the Force.

>>54769026
The imbalance is the presence of the Dark Side itself. Lucas said so himself, and no amount of fanon will change it.
Dark Side is not a natural part of the Force, it's like cancer.

>>54762603
>You used to be cool
lol no

>why does nobody want to be the celibate, emotionless monks with a millennia-long history of failure and causing more problems in the galaxy than they prevent?

Geez, I dunno.

>>54769026
I literally just explained why 2 Jedi and 2 Sith is not balance. The Force was overwhelmed by the power of the dark side when there was 10,000 Jedi and two Sith. It's not going to be returned to balance by the deaths of 9,998 Jedi, if anything that should make the imbalance worse.

>>54769043
>Lucas said so himself
Lucas also demanded Jar Jar be in the prequels.
If you present the force as having two fucking sides, and talk about balance, how can you expect anyone to assume that balance means 100% of one side and 0% of another?

>>54769072
George himself said that the Jedi are not celibate.

The Jedi absolutely also do not cause more problems than they prevent. Almost every single galactic scale war in the past ~7,000 years have been the Jedi fighting against the Sith, with the Sith being the aggressors.

Now, sure, if you want to say that the Sith only exist because of the Jedi, yeah that's true. But it's misleading at best.

>>54761080
>playing force sensitive characters in Star Wars RPGs at all

>>54769043
>emotions like fear, anger, ambition, and romantic desire are not normal parts of life even though they're hardwired into every living thing with a nervous system by eons of evolution because they're pretty good for survival
>no, the normal, balanced life is one devoid of all these things, a state that even those weird few humanoids who devote their lives to attaining still fail to attain because it's so unnatural

Really, George?

>>54769138
It's not that they exist, it's that they don't exist and take control. The Light is not about the absence of emotions, it's about the control of them.

>>54769138
Are you talking about the issue of the balance of the Force or talking about Jedi living a balanced life? Make up your mind.

>>54769121
>>54769089
>>54769116
>Believe love is bad
>Extreme mystics
>Run roughshod over the secular Republic
>Attempt to murder the democratically elected Chancellor
>Basically kidnap force sensitive children to replenish your ranks
>Acknowledge other Force sensitive traditions but act like they're fucking heretics
>Speak blatant lies about the corrupting nature of the 'Dark Side', which is really just the emotional, passionate, active side, with the mere existence of Grey Jedi proving they're full of shit and that Darth Nihilus isn't an ideal example of the average user of force lightning.

>>54769121
>George himself said that the Jedi are not celibate

Films say otherwise.

His films in fact.

>>54769116
You can't arbitrarily accept one part of the prequels, but not another. If you believe in chosen one crap (which was never part of OT), then you also must accept what Lucas intended by balance.

>>54769121
A lot of Sith, at least the ones we see, are rogue Jedi. The odds that a Jedi will somehow go bad during training seem to be roughly 50%.

And if George didn't want Jedi to be celibate he shouldn't have written them that way in the prequels. It was clear that Anakin was not only forbidden from marrying Padme but also forbidden from fucking her, otherwise he wouldn't have to hide the fact that he intended to fuck her while he was charged with guarding her and he wouldn't have had to hide that he got her pregnant. He could have totally high-fived with Obi-Wan about it.

>>54769138
To be fair, balanced emotions needn't mean any emotion be indulged. Consider that if you're indulging your fear, you're not indulging your bravery. If you're succumbing to your vindictiveness, you're not exercising your mercy.
Balance may well mean, by some interpretation of the word, a lack of any emotion, as you feel neither one emotion's pull nor its diametrical counterpart.

>>54769157
>>54769163
He's talking about the fact that the "Dark Side of the Force" is not presented as malice, cruelty, and sadism, its presented as overwhelming passions.

The Jedi as of the OT were absolutely not temperate about emotion, they were robo-autists. The entire plot could have been avoided if they just would have let Anakin bang Panda-Bear [there's too few of them in captivity anyway] and become a Pokemon Master.

But instead we let Green Midgets decide the fate of the galaxy.

>>54769174
>Believe love is bad

They don't believe it's bad. They believe letting it be in control of your life is bad.

>Extreme mystics

And this is a problem, why?

>Run roughshod over the secular Republic

Not really.

>Attempt to murder the democratically elected Chancellor

A Chancellor that used deception and the dark side to get that role.

>Basically kidnap force sensitive children to replenish your ranks

Nope. All children are taken only with parental consent. If they don't give it, they don't take the children.

>Acknowledge other Force sensitive traditions but act like they're fucking heretics

Nope. They only do this to dark side traditions - and those tend to be the ones that do stuff like murder and deceive their way to power.

>Speak blatant lies about the corrupting nature of the 'Dark Side', which is really just the emotional, passionate, active side, with the mere existence of Grey Jedi proving they're full of shit and that Darth Nihilus isn't an ideal example of the average user of force lightning.

The Dark Side absolutely is corrupting. It's as detrimental to the user's mind as any hard drug is, and just as addicting.

And Nihilus, really? The man who doesn't even live anymore except to devour life everywhere he goes? The man who wipes out colonies by himself?


>>54769187
The films do not say they have to be celibate. They say they should abstain from relationships. That is not the same thing.

>>54769256
So the Jedi encourage fuck and run relationships, single mothers on frontier worlds having to rely on charity to raise their bastard children and a whole load of fatherless, resentful force users growing up to despise the Jedi.

That's much better.

>>54769283
they know how to build FTL spaceships, i think they can manage condoms.

>>54769256
>The films do not say they have to be celibate. They say they should abstain from relationships. That is not the same thing.
We're not asking that you starve yourself, we just ask that only only eat between the hours of 12:00 and 12:05.

>>54769302
>they know how to build FTL spaceships, i think they can manage condoms.
you'd think that, but then, they had a whole deathstar and not one god damn safety rail in sight around those giant chasms

>>54761974
>>54762589
>>54762603
>>54765895

>having this shit taste

Tell me, what's it like being a shit person?

>>54769302
>FTL starships
>Hold Death Star plans as a physical object
>Can't make copies
>Can't upload it to the internet

>>54769197
But they never apply that reasoning in reverse. A merciful Jedi would never be chastised for not expressing his natural vengefulness every now and then. It's pretty clear, even in the OT, that the Dark Side is synonymous with emotions like fear and anger and the Light Side is self-control and self-denial.

>>54769323
I remember reading they had some fancy shielding that prevented people from actually falling too far.
Probably like that everywhere unless it becomes plot important that someone falls, I guess.

>>54769323
Well what's the point of having artificial gravity if you're not going to use it?

>>54769345
And yeah, you could make the "Rebels didn't have time excuse", and I guess so, but you can't make this excuse for Starkiller Base plans

>>54769302
We can build supersonic air craft and can manage condoms. There are still unwanted children.

>>54769390
that's not a problem with the idea of sleeping around in itself, just being poorly prepared. that's what clairvoyance is for.

>>54769356
>I remember reading they had some fancy shielding that prevented people from actually falling too far.
yes. that seems far more efficient than a rail.

>>54769462
It's the space future of a galaxy a long ago, Anon, they can't just have rails.

>>54769470
what if they had SPACE RAILS?

>>54769482
That fits. They need to be free floating space rails that still stay in place thanks to technobabble though.

>>54769606
do you prefer blinking LED's or Neon?

>>54769622
Let's go will dull, discreet LEDs. Neon is so passé.

I played in a mostly-force users F&D game pre-original trilogy where most of the others were leaning towards grey or dark side. My cowardly-ass upjumped padawan started to go lightside through good rolls, and basically managed to mock and insult the rest of the group into being more lightside as well over the course of the campaign, whilst staying as true as he knew how to the Jedi code. It was great.

>get to play a space wizard with a space sword
>everything is fucking cool
>have awesome mental powers
>some guy pulls a gun on some innocent kid
>"yeah im gonna close my open hand into a fist towards the baddy and make his body occupy 6cm3"
>"sorry, you can't do that, it's an evil power"

Fuck off, don't fucking let me play a psychic space knight and then say I can't turn people into flesh marbles. That's just blue-balling.

>>54769854
>"sorry, you can't do that, it's an evil power"
>Fuck off, don't fucking let me play a psychic space knight and then say I can't turn people into flesh marbles. That's just blue-balling.

A GOOD GM would have said "okay but you know that's evil, right?"

>>54769877
You're completely missing the point.

Which is that if you can't crush people into bloody pulp with your mind, you might as well just fucking play a Mandalorian with a fucking laser cannon the size of my dick.

>>54769921
Mandalorians don't wield blasters this small.

>>54769921
well, why don't you?

File: 1469727605_4808680f06.jpg (38KB, 297x400px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 297x400px

>>54769936
What do you think?

>>54769921
you missed MY point, in my example you CAN crush people into a bloody pulp, just as long as you hold no delusions that you are staying on the "light" side of the force. the only one that would be stopping you, is yourself.

>>54769854

I don't understand why using force telekinesis to kill is bad, but chopping someone in half with your laser sword is neutral.

Like I get it with force lightning, that's a power used primarily only by Space Wizard Satan and fellow Space Wizards like Dooku, and it's powered by pure hate, but force choke should be just as neutral as force push.

Unless force choke isn't actually a telekinetic choke, but more like a death spell, since Vader can use it across a comm screen on a ship super far away from the person he's murdering.

>>54761122
>Maturity
Never in the history of the world has it been easier to do good deeds and help others, but it's an attitude like this that makes people rationalise their shitty behaviour as "mature" and "realistic". It's not maturity, it's a fear of realising that you're just a shitty person who could have/still "been/be a good guy" but choose not to.

>>54769980
>I don't understand why using force telekinesis to kill is bad, but chopping someone in half with your laser sword is neutral.
the sword gives them a sporting chance

>>54769195

This is why I like that one comic where Obi-wan rolls up at their private naboo retreat out of fucking nowhere, and goes all "Anakin, I need your help" while the two are having breakfast. While Anakin, a but stunned, quite rightfully asks how Obi-Wan tracked him down there, Obi-Wan says something along the lines of "The entire Jedi Temple knows that if the Chosen One is missing, he's probably in the Senator from Naboo."

>>54769174
>secularism
>in a world where there is literally an immaterial cosmic Force
muh logical positivism

>>54769980
it's not like you instantly drop down to space hitler tier for choking someone, luke did it a few times.

but you're still connecting yourself to the essence of all life in order to will someone to death. so, while not evil, it probably takes a mental or spiritual toll if you do it too much.

>>54769256
>And Nihilus, really? The man who doesn't even live anymore except to devour life everywhere he goes? The man who wipes out colonies by himself?
That's the other Anon's point. There are people who use force lightning but aren't as bad as Nihilus, thus proving that Nihilus is exceptionally bad and not a necessary consequence of usage of zappy space magic

>>54761080
Because I'd rather be Han Solo, or Chewbacca, or Leia.

>>54770133
I've played with plenty people who wanted to be Han Solo, one time Chewbacca, a few Lukes, but never fucking once Leia.

>>54769352
Which is why I said "to be fair" and that it doesn't *necessarily* have to be stupid, it just turned out to be stupid because real philosophy is hard and logic doesn't conform very well to our intuition of ethics and emotion.

Still, for that particular example, there must be a Jedi around who was chastised for not enacting justice but instead showing mercy to someone who probably didn't deserve it?

The whole "wheel of diametrical opposites" thing sort of falls apart since emotions aren't well-defined and words are poorly suited for explaining them, since "mercy" may just as well be "fear of making the wrong decision" or "pacifism" or whatever

>>54770050
>he's probably in the Senator from Naboo."
>in the Senator
I guffawed.

File: SithWarriors-TORtrailer.jpg (437KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

437KB, 1280x720px

>>54761080
because the sith have a better fashion sense

>>54770091
Did Luke get out of it because he merely wished someone unconscious and not dead?

>>54769980
It's probably more that it signifies a certain callousness towards the Force. The Force is bigger than any individual, indeed it is the cosmic underlying rule of existence. To use it as a tool is not evil, but to regard it as nothing more than a tool is a disregard for the fabric of existence.

It's similar to Kant's idea of the categorical imperative meaning you shouldn't treat others as a means to an end, but the end itself.

This doesn't mean you're morally wrong for going to the barber to get your hair cut, even though you're using him as a means to an end, however if you saw him as not a person to whom you also have a moral obligation and saw his place in the greater scheme of human existence, then you would be morally reprehensible.

This explanation fails to explain mind control, force push, force jumps, precognition for the purpose of something other than just being in tune with the Force, etc., so it's actually completely wrong and Lucas is just a big fat manchild with the morality of a toddler, but at least for a moment someone might think this argument was going anywhere that could excuse the retardation that is Star Wars ethics.

>>54761622
EU was pretty shitty, "was" being the operative word.

>>54761080
Jedi Temple guard and Sentinels ere the best, how could anyone choose sith fashion sense over the temple guard, it's just not possible.

>>54761639
Dude, wrong setting, go let Lucius the eternal screw you in the ass somewhere else.

I think this thread just further proves that old Star Wars is better then the prequels.

>>54762819
If you reject current canon and go by the EU, yes.

>>54770242
And the new EU is just completely shitty.
No diamond to find in these mounds of shit.

>>54770427
Does it need further proof? Everybody except for /swg/ accepts it, and /swg/ is too busy jacking off to cartoons.

>>54765533
but they aren't, because grey jedi aren't canon.

>>54761676
>ASoIaF
>grey

Having a higher number of shitty people than normal doesn't make a story grey, anon, all of whom are good by standard metrics, except one - that being Jaime.

>>54761080

I love playing jedi. In particular, I love playing force adept types of jedi.

>>54768940
That may be due to the fact that the coruscant jedi temple was built atop the ruins of a sith temple and, you know, distorting the jedi's ability to see the future etc.

>>54770614
Jaime did nothing wrong.

>>54761080
Players are lazy faggots and can't handle a moral code. So they anti-everything it up.

>>54761080

If I ever found myself in a starwars game I had an idea for a Jedi who fell through his own hubris. He was very much about being a Jedi but felt the Order were a bunch of pussies who were far to hands off in a lot of situations (especially with him being a healer) and wanted to go out and do good in the galaxy. He despised the Sith because he felt their ideology only allowed for their twisted sense of hedonism.

The idea would be that he would purposefully take darkside points whenever he heals people and I would hope at some point somone points out how far he fell so he can have an oh shit moment.

I think because they're preachy authority figures. Like, playing the holier-than-thou super-powered guy who's just better than you is so many levels of boring.
It's like playing as superman. Congrats, you are so much better and cooler than everyone. Great. Awesome.

Liberals and cuckoldism, like this guy >>54771100
Liberals are upset that they lost so they inherently see morally-straight authority figures as bad guys and would rather play as some hedonistic mary sue with one purple and one pink lightsaber because they identify as a Zher.
They despise individual excellence and a character, god forbid, having some degree of morality or restraint so they instead go with the oppressed and "two-minded" grey jedi or Sith.

>>54771193
>liberals
Don't call those commies that.

>>54761580
Tbf the emperor's plan was to kill Luke's friends and sister which would make Luke hate him.
Somehow this would result in him joining him.

>>54771193
"Individual excellence" is a sith thing though, anon.

File: 1500364246038.jpg (16KB, 472x482px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 472x482px

>>54761080
i was about to say 'i played a jedi' but then i remembered i was actually a force adept who focused on healing and doing good. managed to do pretty well and would've put a dark-sider on the path to good if it weren't for the rest of the party.
the other force sensitive was a 'grey jedi' who immediately fell to the dark side partially because he's unlucky, partially because he's an idiot.

anyway, i dunno, i guess the idea of playing a jedi just feels restrictive because of all the tacked-on bullshit. it's like playing a paladin, you're expected to adhere to some vague moral code and everybody in a group has a different idea of how that moral code would be played.
to be honest most of that's only because the prequels and EU tacked on all sorts of bullshit to the jedi.

>>54769980
Jedi rarely kill unless they absolutely have to, regardless of it's with the Force or a lightsaber. It's really only in games that they kill rampantly, as a mechanic. In the movies and EU, Jedi almost always try to take down opponents non-lethally, like disarming them. Death is a final resort, such as with excessively dangerous individuals, or if there's no feasible way to capture them.

Jedi just plain aren't very likeable. Like, yeah, they don't fuck shit up like the Sith, but even back in The Empire Strikes Back they were ethically pretty shady, and then the prequel trilogy established that their philosophy basically boils down to "no fun allowed". I'm more surprised that this is a recent thing than anything else.

>>54771385
>prequels and EU
That's the problem.

If you strip away all of that what you are left with is "badass space wizard-knights that stride through the galaxy righting wrongs"

rather than

"celibate, child abducting cultists that dabble in politics and refuse to get involved"

>>54771414
I'd rather be death than become a quadruple amputee

>B-But prosthetics!
Not the point, the point is that somehow leaving someone without limbs and without a means to move or even recover just to suffer in their own uselessness because, you know, no limbs, is somehow seen as better than just outright killing your enemy in a respectful and painful manner.

>>54771441
Again, anon, the Jedi are neither celibate nor do they abduct children. The former is straight from George, and the latter is... literally everywhere except Karen Traviss. Hell, TCW and Rebels have both showed that kidnapping children is actually a Sith thing.

>>54762141
>their adherents would actually be able to deal with difficulties in their lives
They are and they do. Literally thousands upon thousand of Jedi across the millennia have managed not to fall to the autism spectrum.

Kill all Skywalkers. They cause nothing but problems.

>>54769195
>seem to be roughly 50%.
Based on what? The films have Vader, Sheev, Dooku, and Maul.

Whose numbers are heavily outweighed by the just the Jedi who fought at Geonosis.

>>54761080
I imagine they're not as fun to play as, because the jedi code in gameplay terms amounts to "don't do anything cool unless you have no other choice lol"

>>54772014
Maul wasn't even ever a Jedi, nor was Sheev. So it's literally just two former Jedi.

Even if you use the old EU lore, there's like... still only fifty or sixty total Jedi who fell out of thousands of years of them being around.

>>54769980
Because the first is powered by your emotional space magic and the second is just a physical act. This is important because space magic feeds you back the emotion you gave to it, plus a little. So when you use it in anger it gives you back even more anger.

>>54768885
>t. buddha

>>54771578
Not at all the reason I made that post. I was pointing out that killing by Force or by lightsaber is both frowned upon by the Jedi.

>>54761080
even playing "jedi" at all is the hugest red flag in the first place

File: 1472005538542.jpg (600KB, 2048x1558px) Image search: [Google]

600KB, 2048x1558px

>>54761639
In the modern day with edgemasters, being a true good person is not normal or common because everyone has their own goals.

"I'm going to do good because I know it makes people happy" is rare trait, especially among people who can play that character.

There's no good nor evil.

>>54761080
Jedi are boring, their religion is stupid, and they aren't even the good guys. Star wars in general is a shit setting, and the only purpose of it is to make money.

File: Doubt.png (85KB, 492x280px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 492x280px

>>54772119
You have a single thing to back it up?

File: 638844ebcc775d08c120ba61e1aa527d--jedi-cosplay-jedi-costume.jpg (64KB, 520x731px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 520x731px

>>54770184
Wrong.

>>54772219
decades of anecdotes
Wanting to play a Jedi is "Drow ranger" tier.

>>54772264
Explain.

>>54769333
>preferring that people actually understand the words that they type is shit taste
The correct term is 'sapient.' If people want to sound smart then they can at least bother to google their definitions.

File: 13a001cde801b828217bf835637e8cb0.jpg (51KB, 450x718px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 450x718px

Playing someone that starts life as a Sith is boring.

Isn't it better to play a true blue Jedi that eventually and inevitably falls to the Dark Side because they made some choices that caused them to trip up along the way?

I realize this was very poorly represented when it happened in the prequels, but prior to it actually showing up in film, it seemed to be something everyone loved about Vader's character -- that he had this past as a good guy, and just sort of lost his way, likely with the best intentions.

>>54772285
What about the opposite, going from the Dark Side and becoming a Jedi?

File: the stupidest thing.png (162KB, 377x279px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 377x279px

>>54761122
people like this are allowed to vote

>>54772274
Drizzt Dourden is the main character from some D&D books, when impressionable kids read the books they want to make ripoff PCs just like him.
Same with Jedi.

>>54772359
More interesting obviously but I'm thinking from the perspective of someone that wants to play as a sith. Seeing it as a goal for the character strikes me as much more interesting and rewarding than someone that just has them brought up in one of those fucktarded schools where backstabbing is the norm, though clearly the latter works much better for someone that becomes a Jedi.

What classes are suitable for a half-orc?

>>54772458
Someone that learns that there is more to life than backstabbing and gaining power and discovers something more.

I'm not sure how I would put it but Starkiller is obviously my first choice when it comes from someone who escaped the dark side, which is an achievement in itself seeing as it claims a lot of idiots. You have to have a massive will in order to become a jedi from a Sith.

>>54770152
>diplomat
>covert agent
>takes no guff
>decent shot
>decent pilot
>hard as balls

>>54772388
This doesn't explain shit. Star Wars is the series about jedi. Of course people would want to play as a jedi. That's the whole point.
Much worse is, if they want to play as sith.

>>54769980
The Force likes life. It doesn't want to kill people, it wants everyone to live happily.

A light sider goes up to the Force and asks it for a favor. The more time the Jedi spends impressing and courting it with meditation and introspection and all that crap, the more likely the Force is to grant those favors. Doing one thing the Force doesn't agree with won't instantly make it hate you if you've spent a lot of time showing you care about it.

Dark siders don't have time for that. They tell the Force to do things it doesn't agree with. Naturally, the Force says no. So, the dark sider just beats it into submission with hatred and anger until it submits and does what he wants.

>>54772555
Could have been a Jedi too, don't forget that. Just never got any fucking training.

>>54772285
>>54772359
The best is trying them both and then dumping them when you realize both are full of shit

>>54772650
Even when she had the possibility of training, she chose not to.

>>54772698
And that's admirable

>>54769116
It was never two opposed sides except when shitters likes the mouse or bioware got their hands on it. It was the force, and the bad shit happening to the force.

>>54772574
>That's the whole point
Not really, it's about wars in space

Shit, remember when a sword fight between two Jedi was at the tail end of the movie and only lasted a couple of minutes

The main focus was a bunch of people trying to take down a planet destroying space station despite being severely outgunned by a much stronger enermy

>>54761211
Mate, 10 minutes ago you went on a school massacre.
I don't think you've got the best grasp of right and wrong, here.

>>54772826
>Reddit spacing

>>54772843
man I don't know what the fuck that means

>>54772014
And Kylo Ren now. And Ahsoka, kind of, in that she wouldn't be counted as a graduate. And if we're counting Legends, there's Jacen and something like half the Jedi Praxeum, including history's greatest monster, Kyp fucking Durron.

File: brian-matyas-debt-collector-page.jpg (1MB, 1920x1613px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1613px

>>54761080
Because Jedi are complete and utter shit. True fans know that it's Corellians who are the best guys.

Rejection of the Jedi is based in the new age meme that kids are smarter than their parents and everyone needs to reject conventional thought and find their own path

>>54772993
That's a new age meme? I thought it was just the plot of the Emoji movie.

>>54768884
That's all fucking good though. The Jedi should be a hereditary warrior caste, not the current dipshit peaceniks they are in canon who can't see a knife coming for their back from a mile away. They also need an inquisition element to hunt down and purge any Sith culture whenever it shows up. The very fact that Korriban/Morriban/whatever the fuck it's called now even exists is gross oversight by the Jedi. They should bombard it from orbit until the planet is but dust.

If you are fighting an enemy religion (the Sith), you do not leave anything behind. The only way to truly kill an idea is to kill every single person who believes it and destroy every single article of knowledge on the subject. Leave nothing behind and salt the fields so nothing ever grows again.

But because the Jedi are black and white retards and Star Wars is a children's story the Jedi will forever be doomed to gross incompetence.

File: Jacket-ShoulderPad-MasterRace.jpg (155KB, 505x1212px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 505x1212px

>>54770184
>>54772255
Both wrong, idiots.

>>54773032
Literally everything you mentioned was done by the Sith in pretty much every empire they formed.

>>54761122
Senility is not maturity.

File: imII1mT_d.jpg (221KB, 640x1775px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 640x1775px

>>54761080

File: Fordo.png (504KB, 960x1200px) Image search: [Google]

504KB, 960x1200px

>>54773064
And that's why the Sith win. The Jedi are retarded because their very method of operation dooms them to failure in their religious wars as it horribly gimps them. Every conflict requires they re-learn how to fight, taking atrocious casualties in the process or even outright losing.

Religious wars are not righteous and they are not clean affairs. Rather you need to make them as bloody as swift as possible to end them immediately and wholly destroy your enemy for good. The weed can only grow if you fail to rip it up by the roots and salt the field.

If you want to beat the Sith, you need to burn everything related them to ash. No statues, no libraries, nothing. Erase them from the face of the universe so that nobody but you even remembers that they existed.

>>54772722
>>54772555
>>54772698
>>54772650
See, great character to play as.>>54770152

>>54773186
And then what? Those weak of spirit, the ambitious, the greedy will still fall to the Dark Side, sith or no sith. Nothing about sith culture or history makes them inherently worse than, say, Night Sisters or any recently fallen dark jedi.
It's a lot of work that will achieve nothing in the end. There will be new sith, by another name. Hell, even in the new canon, Kylo Ren is not a sith really.

>>54773293
You can kill them before they're able to fully turn, or send them to reeducation.

>>54773186

The dark side will ineveitably be called upon by even the most noble jedi the moment opportunity or desperation present itself. Didn't someone said that the dark side is the force being abused by it's user, to kill and to achieve an extremely selfish desire?

File: Sheev.jpg (72KB, 880x880px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 880x880px

>>54773330
That's a great idea! Let's do exactly that.

>>54773370
Starting with you sheev. Mandatory checkups for every citizen followed by lobotomy on a failed test for a force sensitive.

You can't have emotions if you've proven yourself to be a liability to fall to the dark side.

>>54761666

The same could also be said with the way Disney is handling its new EU.

Obviously we don't have the luxury of time to pass proper judgment, but the way Disney has handled the franchise thus far doesn't inspire confidence either.

Is it more consistent? Sure. But it lost a lot of nuance and complexity when the completely jettisoned the old EU. Sure, much of it was shit, but a slight change to policy would have at least allowed for more flexibility to draw from the better parts of the EU. I.E: Events and characters not canon until determined otherwise. Or perhaps, allowing the old EU to continue existing and be built upon separately from the main canon.

But I digress. It can be safely said that at the end of the day, Star Wars is a franchise that mostly panders to the lowest common denominator. We're lucky as it is to find anything worth noting about it.

>>54771847
Literally thousands upon thousands if lawful good orc baby killers have resisted falling. Doesnt mean they arent hypocritical brainwashing fucks.

>>54769980

Your laser sword is a weapon, the force is not.

Granted, there's plenty of ways to resolve that particular scenario without killing anyone, but everybody's gotta kill everyone who acts bad in RPGs these days.

>>54772826

And literally nobody cared about that part, because it had been done before so many times.

>>54761080
Because normal jedi are hypocrites and it is easier to like an unabashed villain than a hypocrite.

The sith will murder you, torture you, even mind rape you but the jedi will do the same thing all while preaching about how morally superior they are to you.

And yes jedi do torture and mindrape people, cutting off limbs all over the place and mind tricking people is some messed up shit and they do it without a care it seems.

>>54761080
Kreia

>>54762560
this guy gets it

though to be fair, my only prior experience with a sci-fi RPG was Traveller, which is (generally) a much more dangerous system, so guns and cover> magic space swords

>>54771757
Cept in the Prequel ... where did all the younglings come from anon? Is the truth too painful? Sorry kid turns out NASA space camp is Forever

>>54774335
The Jedi do receive the parents' consent to begin training their children as Jedi. What they don't have is the children's consent, because they start when the children are way too young to be making informed decisions on what they want to do with their lives. So it's still a kind of abduction.

>>54774335
The same way Anakin came to the Jedi. Parents were spoken to about what it means, and given the chance to decline. If they do, then the child gets put on a list and watched, but gets to stay with the family.

Literally nothing in canon and like two examples total in Legends, one of which was a lie told by Karen Traviss and the other was a baby whose parents had gone missing, show the Jedi stealing children from their families.

In canon the Dagoyan Masters claim that the Jedi steal their children, but they're literally the only ones who make that claim.

Yet story arcs from both TCW and Rebels show that the Sith are the ones who will abduct children - it's how Palpatine got Maul from his mother, and multiple children were kidnapped by Cad Bane at the behest of Palpatine. And then Rebels went one step further with Project Harvester, the Inquisition project that literally steals Force sensitive babies from their mothers arms.

>>54774414
It's essentially an adoption, minus one fact. The children aren't forced to stay with the Jedi if they don't want to once they are old enough to make the decision. Canon already had this story with Anakin in the Anakin & Obi-Wan mini, with Anakin as a twelve-year-old thinking about leaving the Jedi.

File: sith_lords_by_hupao-d3f3eb7.jpg (209KB, 741x1077px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 741x1077px

>>54774414
Yes, because you want random kids with mind powers growing up completely untrained and capable of mind controlling and conjuring lighting and telekinesis with not a hint of ethical guidance whatsoever.

Guess what you get when that happens?

>>54761080
Jedi can't bone.

>>54774495
Yes, in fact, they can. And that they can is straight from George Lucas. This has been repeated several times throughout this thread.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm

>"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

>>54772667
Nice try, Kreia

>>54761580
have you seen new canon though? TFA was shit and the new canon vader comics has red lighstaber crystals turned that color from normal green and blue ones cause of hatred and vader needs to get his crystal from a jedi so he can turn it to the darkside.

Its simple. Grey Jedi is code for "I'm batman".

>>54772063
So the force is the Warp and the Dark Side is Chaos?

>>54765128
>>54765533
just because windu used vaapad to funnel his inner darkness into his fighting style doesnt make him grey.

>>54774461
>take children away from their families so early that they probably don't even remember them
>at every turn, discourage them from having any contact with their old lives. Teach them that romance and familial bonds are "possessive" and therefore evil.
>also force them to suppress all emotion, self-interest, and even sense of self, with the general goal of making them into servants with literally less free will than droids
>do absolutely nothing when you know that one of them has a family member in need or in danger, like, for example, when one of them has a mother who is a slave on a gangster planet. Send exactly zero of your space wizards to go save her.
>"oh, but you can leave whenever you want."
Classic cult behavior

>>54774610
Ignore him. His super special snowflake ideas will never be compromised by your calm logic.

>>54774624
Except the main difference is that I'm a cult the thing you believe in isn't actually real.

The Jedi can produce tangible results. You wouldn't want just anyone with a chip on their shoulder to be able to drain people's life force on a whim after all.

>>54774521
Bang. Everybody.

Is mind tricking bar sluts canon? It's a way of blowing off steam so I don't fall to the dark side senpai.

>>54774645
That's totally irrelevant. The Jedi are cult-like not because of their dogma but because of how they psychologically manipulate and isolate their junior members.

>>54774646
Why would you need to mind trick a slut anon

>>54773186
Every course of action you've suggested directly undermines the goals of the jedi and is therefore an even worse strategy for achieving those goals than they already have.

>>54772379
>he didn't play alpha centauri

>>54774624
>>at every turn, discourage them from having any contact with their old lives.

You'll need to source this one, anon, because they really don't. They don't encourage it, either.

>self-interest, and even sense of self, with the general goal of making them into servants with literally less free will than droids

Yeah, no. This doesn't happen at all. The Jedi have plenty of self-interest and sense of self. The idea that they're little more than fleshy droids... really isn't a thing.

>do absolutely nothing when you know that one of them has a family member in need or in danger, like, for example, when one of them has a mother who is a slave on a gangster planet. Send exactly zero of your space wizards to go save her.

Exactly how many knew about his mother's situation?

Obi-Wan, maybe the Council members?

And Tatooine isn't a Republic planet. The Jedi have no jurisdiction there. They can't just waltz in, grab Shmi, and go.

>>"oh, but you can leave whenever you want."

Jedi have always been free to leave. Hell, Dooku left, and other than becoming a Sith lord which they didn't even find out about until over a decade later they had no problems with him leaving, and he was an actual Master.

>>54774646
It's not. It's not something that Jedi would do anyway.

>>54774668
When you're an autistic space monk, sometimes it's the only way.

>>54774664
> that's irrelevant.

You're telling me that properly screening applicants for being trained in the use of the force is a bad idea when in the setting the force allows a user to drain entire planets should they be capable enough.

You expect me to believe that indoctrination procedures are unnecessary when each potential candidate has the power to reduce a person to ash if they so choose.

>>54774736
isnt the only fuck capable of eating a planet nihilus? he was a super special snowflake that doesnt come around all the time. or are you referencing vitiate who was a trash character? even the thought bomb couldnt drain an entire planet and that took an entire army of "sith"

>>54774736
I don't think they have that power until they train, anon

>>54774475
It seems like most Force-sensitive people with no training (all of them if you don't count TFA) can't do anything more supernatural than being good pilots and generally don't even know they're Force-sensitive. None of them turn to the Dark Side before they receive any kind of training. This is even true of Sheev, who before receiving Sith training was just a guy who liked riding speeders and had normal levels of daddy issues that never would have blossomed into supervillainy on their own. If you just leave the kid alone he'll just get a real job and be slightly better at it than other people. If you teach the kid how to kill and perform supernatural feats with his mind, that creates the possibility that he'll become a cartoonish supervillain where there was no chance before.

>>54774756
>>54774760
Both circumstances are substantially increased in probability without screening however.

I might even point out that the original Jedi didn't even use lightsabers.

>>54774711
Anakin did not check on how his mother was doing for, what, ten years? That was certainly due to pressure from his teachers. None of the other Jedi we see in the prequels have any kind of contact with their families.

>>54774771
The Jedi only began developing martial abilities as a response to the Sith, tho.

>>54774796
Implying Anakin even fucking thought about going back to Tatooine. He basically fucking said it himself that he hates the planet.

>>54774787
neither did the sith, and im so mad sith in the movies didnt use sith swords or sorcery. like palpatine refers to lukes saber as a jedi weapon and it makes you think vader has one cause he was a failed jedi. sith needed to be more unique

>>54774807
That was dumb. The best answer to a Sith is not a Jedi who stands a fair chance of switching sides at the drop of a hat. It's a bunch of soldiers with flamethrowers and other undeflectable weapons.

>>54774796
He was kinda busy doing things, Anon. Training doesn't exactly leave a lot of downtime.

And again, Tatooine is not in the Republic. He can't simply go off and go to the other side of the galaxy, to a place that's not under their jurisdiction, not when he's still an apprentice. Hell, even when he was with Padme in AotC, the only reason they actually went back to Tatooine was because Padme made the decision to do so, and Anakin was stuck guarding her.

>>54774807
This is wrong. The Jedi were doing their thing long before the Sith came around. They used Force-infused weapons instead of lightsabers.

The Sith brought about the age of the lightsaber, but the idea that the Jedi were total pacifists before the Sith split off from them is... well, you'd have to have never read anything about the old Jedi at all to not know this.

>>54774836
It's wrong, is what it is. The Jedi had a long and storied martial tradition well before the schism that lead to the Sith happened.

>>54774827
Basically yes. To Palpatine the Jedi are savages, which is why he sought to cast them aside rather than turn them to his advantage as useful pawns - which he was certainly capable of doing considering how fucking long he manipulated things behind the scenes.

>>54774836
The Jedi are peacemakers first, not warriors. Their role was never to enforce their will on others.

>>54774822
Are you referring to the sand speech? You'd better be.

>>54774836
ill direct you to everyones favorite droid on that subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus

>>54761080
I just want to play a hero, anon. I'd shamelessly play a do-gooder jedi, go around righting wrongs and generally being a reasonable and decent person.

>>54774902
Good call. Jedi can't sense droids. A droid could even serve them poisoned tea and the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense any killer intent. Someone should remember that.

>>54774858
I am busy, I live far away from my parents, I'm pretty sure they are not the victims of human trafficking right now, nor are they in any other kind of danger or in desperate need of my help. I still talk to my parents more frequently than once every ten years. What's Anakin's excuse?

>>54774858

Prior to the occurrence of the rogue jedi the focus was purely on contemplation and passivity.

File: xwing.jpg (192KB, 996x598px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 996x598px

>Giving a damn about wonky, mystical powers and laser swords

>>54774981
itd be interesting to see hk dropped in the new hope timeline as a bounty hunter and told to fix everything.

>>54775028
No, it really is wrong. The Jedi had a long detailed history of fighting dark side users in Legends - literally within 100 years of them being found by the first Republic scouts they started fighting the Legions of Lettow - and that was 18,000 years before the Sith split off.

Hell, you can even go back to their origins as the Je'daii (even though the story quality is questionable at best) and see that they have been fighting against dark side users from literally the very beginning of the Jedi Order.

This idea that they were ever pure pacifists is one that's not supported by any media. They're Jedi Knights, for fuck's sake.

>>54775022
Being in the middle of training that's incredibly time and labor intensive. Being thousands of light-years away. His mother not having a transmission device capable of sending messages (not that she'd know where to send them in the first place beyond the Jedi Temple itself), and him not having one for personal use either.

>>54775149
remember, neo-canon has the force as A FUCKING TREE and the dark side is cain to a female abel

>>54775196
The Force isn't a tree. Literally nothing has said that the Force is a tree.

The Trees are special because they're Force sensitive, not that they ARE the Force.

But then again, no one who claims the trees are the Force has actually read the Shattered Empire which first showed them and showed that that's not true in the slightest

And Mortis arc aside, there's no genderization to the Force.

>>54775223
>he hasnt seen the episode 8 leaks

>>54775246
Leaks which were proven false.

>>54775291
the tree, the penguins, and the sloth were all there. face it, the mouse killed star wars

>>54775321
The Tree being there means literally nothing. The penguins mean nothing.

Literally nothing about the supposed leak of the tree being the Force is true. The tree is Force-sensitive, yes, but it is NOT the Force.

Again, this is something you'd know if you'd actually sit down and read nu-canon, but of course you won't, so you're just going to sit back and act smug about things you think you know about.

>>54761080

THE ANSWER IS BEING A JEDI DOESNT MAKE YOU A HERO

BUT IF YOU ARE A STRONG ENOUGH HERO, THEN YOU MAY DESERVE TO BE A JEDI

>>54775196
you mean that really trippy bit in the cgi clone wars?

>>54771364
The Sith are all about judging everything in the world by whether it serves their needs or not. The Jedi are all about letting all life in the universe live together in harmony, whatever form it takes, unless that form is actively destroying everything around it.

>>54775355
episode 8 is neo-canon and its going to have the tree, reys gonna be the personification of the light side and snoke the dark side.

>>54775355
What is there to read for the new canon?

>>54761122
If you don't know this quote please fuck off forever.

>>54775895
The tree is going to be there. I never disputed that. What I DID dispute is that the tree is the Force.

And no, Rey and Snoke aren't going to be personifications of anything except for from a meta-textual ideal.

>>54776462
A lot.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_books

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_comics

I'd go into each that I've read (I haven't read all the canon books, but I've read most of the canon comics so far barring the UK stuff that goes with Rebels and the adaptations of existing stories) but I have a few other things to do this morning.

TL;DR - none of the stuff has reached the lows that Legends material reached, but it hasn't really reached its peaks either. It stays mostly in a comfortable range from "meh" to "good." They've managed to make it more cohesive without having to rely on huge multi-author series, too.

>>54779272
Much too kind, it rather goes from "bad" to "meh" for the books.
Some of the comics definitely reach "good", though.

>>54761080
I just feel like Jedi should be rare and special, and even a non-force users have shit to do in Star Wars universe. Also, blasters, jet packs, pew pew

>>54774414
Children are just slaves that you can't legally sell.
They cannot legally consent, opt in, or opt out of anything of their own volition. Their owners can legally dictate all aspects of their life, up to and including how they spend free time and where they reside, and there are very, very few restrictions on indoctrination.