Why does cyberpunk not work in tabletop form? Is it because hacking

>>54689473
>Why does cyberpunk not work in tabletop form?
The fuck you jabbering about?

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>>54689473
It works, but it's hampered by retarded DMs and players.

On some days under this fair moon, be it rain or sun, city to grassland to desert, one thing seems to always be true...
>OP is a fucking idiot

>>54689473
Shadowrun struggles as a TTG. But cyberpunk works just fine.

>>54689473
you know there more to cyber punk than hacking right?

>>54689473
Hacking-as-a-dungeon can work if everyone at the table gets to play in it.

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>>54689652

What exactly am I looking at here?

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>>54689473
>pictured, OP, in a rare photo without a cock in their mouth

>>54690924

The step up from a cage home in Hong Kong.

Instead of just being a row of cages the size of a very small bed, it's a box the size of a very small bed.

Basically literal coffin apartments. (as opposed to the usual coffin apartment which is about 4-6 times the size with a bunk bed and a little space to move)

>>54689473
Anyone else saddened that girls like this won't exist anymore but will be replaced by HAES landwhales that think they can pull off the look? See through rain jacket will do nothing for rolls upon rolls of lard. The necklace will barely be visible under the third chin. The future is so disappointing...

>>54691507
His battlestation still looks better than mine goddamnit.

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>>54692428

>>54692488
That is scarily close to our present time.

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>>54692488

>>54692488
Will they even fit in the cubes?

>>54692517
>big girl dance class
So they have a paramedic on standby to deal with broken ankles?

>>54692521
We'll make them fit.

>>54689504
>>54689652
>>54689698
>>54689915
>>54691094

This (or rather, these).

Also...

>>54692428

Who the fuck left the door to /r9k/ unlocked?

>>54693162
Go dry your hambeast fold sweat, we can smell it from here.

>>54693345
Yep; definitely an outing day for /r9k/.
And you whiny bitches wonder why us 'normies' are always invading your little safe space.

>>54693394
Being a 400lbs rainbow hair pansy like you is hardly the 'norm'.

>>54693732
Beats being a fat faggot, am I right guys?

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>>54693785

>>54693732
Announcing reports is against the rules, Anon.

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>>54689473
that depends on how important you think it is for hacking to be done by player characters.

>>54690924
someone's apartment. Also a strong argument for the importance of politicians respecting urban planning instead of just doing whatever the hell they want .

>>54691507
>>54691311
>>54689652

what does it say about me that my biggest problem with living in such a space would be the lack of a bathroom and Air Conditioning.

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>>54694147
Bathroom and kitchen are probably shared. A/C and ventilation depend probably on how much you pay. I guess the coffin homes have no A/C while the Japanese net café probably has it.

>>54692488
Even Judge Dredd has to deal with Tumblr's bullshit.

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>>54694468
Silly anon, the bathroom *is* the kitchen.

>>54697882
>everything is so close you'd better have great hygiene about everything or you'll be dead within a week

>Is it because hacking is an inherently single person job
It isn't? It can be broken into lots of different sub-tasks requiring different skillsets.

>>54692428
>Current beauty trend is athletic bodies
>Exercise more popular than ever
>"Girls are all becoming land whales!"
>okay.jpg

>>54689473
>inherently single person job

Jesus, read Neuromancer. It's the seminal work and you don't know shits about cyberpunk until you do.

All of the hacks in the book required a team effort of diverse skill set characters. It's literally a blueprint.

The short explination is "the target is air gapped"

>>54697937
There's more harmful bacteria on average keyboard than on average crapper. And plenty a people eat at their computer.

>>54694468
>>54697882
You don't really need kitchen. You eat at ramen windows, or have instant noodles, chocolate bars, etc. I lived without kitchen for almost a year back at college, and even now I would miss washing machine more than I would miss fridge and stove. Food can get real simple when you put pragmatism before enjoyment.

>>54693477
So in other words, obese SJWs would be right at home in /r9k/?

>>54694133
How exactly is that politician's fault?

I once thought of a cool idea to fix hacking. What if this cybee punk is more 'apple white' kind of future and have all players able to hack wirelessly. Each turn in combat they do a physical action and a hacking action. But the type of action is based on class. For example, a fighter may use their hacl actions to buff their cyber pimbs or increase their aim, or even hack the accuracy of theor enemies. Etx etc.
Thoughts?

>>54703784
So everyone is a script kiddie that can code out of combat. Because coding in combat is like assembling your getaway vehicle from a box of scraps under fire.

>>54703784

>I once thought of a cool idea to fix hacking

...it's broken?

I mean sure your idea is cool but what's all this "fixing" nonsense?

>>54705372
Have you ever tried playing Cyberpunk 2020 or Shadowrun? Because if you had you'd know that it is a giant pain in the ass.

>>54705419

Yeah I play Shadowrun. The hacking is pretty easy once you wrap your head around it. The only problem is that my group has never been interested in using it so we usually just have an NPC hacker and whoever is GMing just rolls some dice.

>>54689473
>what is shadowrun

>>54704023
>assembling your getaway vehicle from a box of scraps under fire.
Hard mode engaged.
Lets do this.

>>54705419
I have a netrunner in my 2020 game and it works just fine.

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>>54705419
Cyberpunk 2020's hacking isn't complicated or particularly time consuming. You don't need to hack dataforts each time you want to do something simple like unlocking a door or disabling a CCTV camera.

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>>54707003

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>>54707013

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>>54689473
Hacking is only a small part of cyberpunk. The social engineering / contact gathering part is actually the most important part - information is power. Yet, everyone puts the emphasize on hacking and fighting.

>>54693096
the class is just full body twerking...

>>54700164
The only air gap here is between op's ears.

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>>54703784
This is probably going to suck in table top, but it'd probably work in a video game (I think Syndicate had something like that).

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>>54700356
Modern studios in Bangkok often don't feature a kitchen since people eat outside, order food for home delivery or get take-away food. As a result, young urbans cannot cook for shit. Having an apartment with a kitchen is becoming a status symbol.

>>54708573
Just like Ancient Rome.

>>54708641
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Another cool thing in Bangkok is the sky train (basically an elevated metro). Sky train stations are connected to elevated walkways that are themselves connected to shopping malls and hotels. To have access to those secured and clean walkways you need to pass a security check. Beggars and bums get kicked out. Once this net of stations and walkways get sufficiently developed, wealthy people wouldn't need to walk on the street.

So are there any good cyberpunk systems that weren't made in the early 90s?

>>54708749
Interface Zero 2.0. Infinity when it comes out has shades of it, if you play in the right place. Corporation.

>>54689473
>Is it because hacking is an inherently single person job
Both hacking and sniping involve a single character investing a bunch of time into something while apart from the rest of the party.

There is an easy solution.

These are not PCs, they are NPCs contracted by the party for their specific support function.

>>54708749
There are plenty Cyberpunk games that were designed after the 90s, but I couldn't say if they're good or not since I didn't play them, apart of Cyberpunk V.3 which is shit.
Polychrome
Tech Noir
Remember Tomorrow
Sprawl
Interface Zero / Interface Zero 2.0
Wyred
Cyberpunk V.3
Tokyo Nova
Kuro
Ex Machina

>>54692428
>>54692488
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/11/fat-studies-courses-fat-awareness-groups-spread-across-universities/

"Typically found in women and gender studies departments, fat studies courses don’t study obesity as a leading cause of death in America but rather approach fatness as a “social justice” issue, and usually focus on “fat liberation” movements and activism as ways to combat the “stigma” attached to obesity."

"A PowerPoint presentation from the course consistently discourages weight loss and denies that being fat is unhealthy."

>>54708790
I have the Corporation rulebook, never found a group though. How is it?

>>54709088
It's pretty good. Played in an EI group a year or two ago, had a pretty good time. Nothing immediately obviously wrong.

>>54708790
The infinity one is very much Cyberpunk (hacking, espionage, cybernetics, etc) and the corebook is finished. When the rest of wave 1 is done it'll get printed and shipped. It has a very CP2020-like character background generator that also affects starting stats and stuff but has the weirdest abstracted income/assets system I've seen which looks like it could be a pain to run.

>>54709225
>the weirdest abstracted income/assets system
Tell me.

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Cyberpunk 2020 is a pretty comfy and simple system. No reason for me to switch to a different system. I can model about anything with it.

>>54709439
How do you deal with the weird tech level and setting? Keep as is? Update for modern times?

Also, how do you do hacking?

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If I was a new DM I'd probably go with Interface Zero 2.0 since it has about the same amount of crunch or I'd use Ex Machina.

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>>54709461
The tech level is outdated for petty stuff like cell phones and consumer electronics. This can be adapted pretty easily.

Hacking, like I've mentioned before, is divided in two things. On one side you have the full and somewhat time consuming datafortress hacking (that's if you want to uncover secret stuff or subvert the datafortress by implanting fake info). On the other you have hacking of remotely controlled stuff (doors, lifts, robocabs, cameras...), which is very simple and very fast.

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I mean no one cares about how much RAM Takeshi Kovacs' phone has or how many phone numbers it can memorize. This kind of detail is trivial. Mike Pondsmith made the error of giving this kind of info.

>>54709453
How is NeoTokyo anyway? Are there still players?

>>54709674
No idea. Never played it, but love the art.

>>54709322
It basically relies on one of your 7 basic attributes "Personality" to determine the number of assets you get (plus any you happen to come across in random character creation) and a related skill "lifestyle" which is added to the personality attribute to determine the target number you must roll under for lifestyle tests and also affects your "cashflow" which is basically the amount you have to spend per session.

Before you can buy virtually anything you need to make an Acquisition test, a lifestyle roll to see if you can find it, or someone to sell you it, a roll that is made harder because anything you might actually want is restricted with a difficulty of 0 - 5 successes needed. A normal roll without stored momentum will only have two dice - you won't have built up momentum during character creation so the only ways to get more successes are to burn assets to get an extra dice on the roll or have enough ranks in expertise and focus for the lifestyle skill. Focus ranks improve your chances of getting a "focused/critical" success which gives you an extra success on a roll of 1-3 (depending on how many ranks of focus you have) or 1-5 if lifestyle is a signature skill related to your profession/education.

Even knives and plasteel pipe have a restriction level of 1 success needed to find someone to sell them to you. So if you want a combi rifle (Restriction 3) for your nomad moderator to start the game with you will probably want to burn an asset or two for an extra dice unless you are confident both of your 2d20 rolls will be successes with one being critical success.

>>54709994
(Cont'd)

The value of assets is very unclear. Being written into a dead relatives will in character creation gives you 2 assets so you are potentially blowing your inheritance on the CHANCE to find a gun you need to effectively do your job at this point. Assets such as those 5 assets another player got when their character won the lottery or the 10 a third player got from finding an alien artifact, cannot be used to buy things directly - only to improve your chances of finding the item you want to buy or restoring some of your "cashflow".

Cashflow is determined by adding 5 to your lifestyle expertise ranks (1-3 or 1-5 if lifestyle is a signature skill), plus your earnings which is randomly determined in character creation by social status or career and can be as low as 0 if you are unlucky and become unemployed in character creation or as high 9 if you are a really lucky corporate exec - more likely it will be around 3/4 as most jobs don't pay that well. So if you are a pretty average fellow with earnings of 3 but you thought ahead and put 3 ranks skill expertise in lifestyle (your character creation max with the profession you rolled/chose) then you will only have a max of 11 cashflow. That should be enough to buy a combirifle, right? Well...

>>54709758
There's something way better than the art ... the soundtrack. I used parts of it while leading cyberpunk campaigns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=408tWOubRDM

>>54710013
(Cont'd)

The cost of items is determined randomly too. A combi rifle costs 6 + 3combat dice. A combat dice is a d6 but you ignore 3-5 and 6 is instead a special effect - in this case the special effect is to increase the cost by an item dependent Tariff amount (1 for a combi rifle). So you end up with a combi-rifle that costs between 6 and 12 of your Cashflow. This means you could potentially lose an Asset or two finding/not finding your single purchase, and if you do find it you might not be able to afford it because it costs 12 but that's okay - you can use an Asset to restore Cashflow mid-purchase with a regular 2d20 lifestyle roll + 1d20 for each additional Asset spent. For each success you restore 2 Cashflow (up to your maximum) so you only need one success.

However, every purchase costing 5 Cashflow or more means you've had a shortfall which increases the difficulty of finding future purchases by one step meaning you'll likely need to spend more Assets finding your second purchase. Also, if you end a purchase with 0 cashflow you get another shortfall and four shortfalls mean you can no longer make any purchases. You can sell off your assets to recover shortfalls in the same way you restore cashflow but you only recover one shortfall per success and each shortfall increases the difficulty so you'll need an additional one or more successes before any shortfalls start to be recovered.

>>54710036
(Cont'd)

If you spend 1 asset finding someone to sell you a combi-rifle, plus one to recover cashflow mid purchase and another to recover the shortfall you will always have when buying a minimum cost 6 combi-rifle then you have blown your whole inheritance and go into debt just to make a simple, single purchase. I really cannot see what the benefit of this system is but it seems like it will slow down player purchasing equipment and upgrades. Players will want to shop every session considering that they will be getting a standard cashflow boost at the start of every session and that their is so much to buy - from guns, ammo types and weapon attachments, armour and armour integrated equipment, to hacking devices and program upgrades, geist upgrades, Lhosts and remotes, to cybernetics, biografts and other augments.

All those rolls, just to buy a combi-rifle and not go broke in the process. No roleplaying to look for underground contacts to buy illegal weapons. No rules for military or police personnel being able to acquire the weapons or items they need to do their jobs. Although, a character can use the awareness based thievery skill to search the black market instead of using the lifestyle skill to find items and this reduces the difficulty of finding them but can instead jack the cost up.

>>54709994
>>54710013
>>54710036
>>54710053
Alright ... who the hell invented a system like THAT? What person in their right mind would implement this?

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>>54710022
Yes, the soundtrack is nice, too.

>>54710101
Someone who didn't think allowing players to keep track of their money was a good idea so wanted to give them a fixed amount per session and then ruined that by throwing in nonsensical assets.

>>54708890
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper#Sniper_teams

>>54708890
You just have the highly mobile hacker+sniper team outside in the van/chopper covering the infiltration team, hacking open doors and acting as getaway drivers, warning the others to get out before the cops arrive.

>>54709994
>>54710013
>>54710036
>>54710053
What the fuck.

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>>54694147
>not the random faggots on other booths jerking it to hentai
Sure, they have headphones on but I'm sure you can still hear their rhythmic strokes and there's the smell too.

>>54710129
It's 2017, nobody should count beans anymore. The fact that my characters liquid assets consist of 12623€, and that I should deduct 50€ from that after a cab drive doesn't add to the story in any way whatsoever.

>>54709674

Maybe 30 people at any given time, so not so much. I'd recommend you try it out, it's free anyway, and it has a lot of good ideas.

I'd love to run a game in the implied setting one day, a shadow war inside the Japanese government.

>>54689473

Obvious b8 is obvious, but you would have a point if you just said "hacking doesn't work in tabletop".

Nobody's really figured out a good way to do it without splitting up the group or reducing it to "make a roll not to fuck up".

Also this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMZJyQ3emHE

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>>54708790
Interface Zero is so laughably fucking stupid

>>54712030
>Border changes all over the place
>United Kingdom is still a thing
Totally inaccurate representation of the future

>>54708749
Gurps

>>54712030
>Chop up or meld together all sorts of countries
>Europe is still basically exactly the same, including the Balkans and microstates

It's like they're not even trying.

>>54712182
I was looking for games *not* made in the early 90s, anon.

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>>54712373
>tfw nuked the Balkans in my cyberpunk setting so I wouldn't have to actually do anything with them

>>54712030
>mash together a bunch of various different nations with radically different cultures and ethnic groups
>arbitrarily balkanize the US and Canada because reasons
>bonus points for giving indians their own pity country
I fucking hate it when writers do this.

>>54712030
I want to believe the Eurasian Union is part of the European Union because that'd sound stupid.

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If robots and A.I.s replaced human employees, who purchases the corporations' products? Is there a universal income? Are there laws to say that every corporation should employ a certain number of humans per robot or A.I.? Is there a tax on robots and A.I.s?

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>>54712888
>>tfw nuked the Balkans
>yfw Balkans come back from it stronger than before

>>54712030
>I can't be bothered to learn all those African countries so I'll just stick them together
>especially those ones that fucking despise each other, that'll work out great
I know nobody other than me actually cares about Africa, but damn if it doesn't still get me worked up. The SEU/UAIR/South Africa I can see as Algeria(or maybe Morocco)/Egypt/South Africa expanding territory and renaming themselves for some reason, but what the fuck is that Central African Union? And with its capital in Kenya of all places?

>Columbian Cartels
What is this, the 90s?

>various other shit including but not limited to Russia letting China touch its stuff, any part of Canada other than maybe Quebec breaking away, Portuguese-speaking Brazil wanting to absorb various shitty Spanish-speaking countries, and European countries staying the same through all the bullshit going on
Fuck.

>Pakistan is now part of "Afghani Wastes"
This is pretty funny though. I guess the Indians finally got their nukes.

>>54709079
Every day we drift further from God's light.

>>54713756

Nobody. Products sit in inventory and companies make money through sheer financialization and futures speculation while the average fucker is lucky if he can afford a ramen pack a day.

>>54689473

Because cyberpunk is deader than disco. We live in a post-cyber world, and the corps won big time.

Your take as if it's worse or better than we feared 40 years ago.

>>54713103
They also had a deus ex machina destroy Israel but spare Palestine. Then the unarmed Palestinians forced the Jews into Jerusalem by some sort of DM magic and they're trapped there surrounded by jihadis despite being the most technologically advanced ME nation.

>>54714288
This doesn't seem to make any sense.

>>54714362

>palestinewank

I... didn't expect that.

>>54714484
It doesn't make sense. Congrats, you've been redpilled.

>>54714362
Unarmed Palestinians? While not extremely well equipped, they are far from being unarmed or incompetent, especially their main ally, the Hamas.

>>54691094
I love this episode of SpongeBob

>>54714520
I meant in-setting. The region is regressed to a low level of tech by a major society-collapsing disaster and somehow the Palestinians (who are supposedly also hit by the same disaster) come out stronger than they ever were despite literally never being capable of organizing themselves coherently.

>>54713756
You work at the corp and earn corp bux to buy housing, food, and luxuries from Corpco. That's basically how early morning operations worked and yes it's pretty much serfdom.

>>54714618
But why even bother employing humans if robots can do the same job for cheaper and more efficiently?

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>>54712030
>Chinese Mandarinate
I'm not sure if they meant mandate or are seriously saying that a language is now a working system of authority and governance

>my sides when thinking of British Englishate, or Japanese Japanate

>>54714749
Going by what other people have said, it'd probably be the British Caliphate.

>>54709461
I hope they fix this for the vidya. I have high hopes.

>>54712030
>The Artic League
>Independant nation with a fuckheug territory
>Population of 6,000 people

Seems legit

>>54714749
>tokugawa era vergil.jpg

>>54714965
The trailer looks like shit. I hope the game will be better.

>>54715159
The trailer was pretty nonspecific though. It had a good tone but didn't show off much aside from "cyber-psychotics become part of an elite police unit," which is a pretty minor aspect of the setting.

>>54715244
It had a shitty aesthetic that totally turned me off and I hated the music. I'm pretty certain that the game will be a random sci-if game just using the Cyberpunk franchise for marketing.

>>54707179
>>54700164
This, people need to realize that hacking in Cyberpunk is fundamentally a Bank Heist or a Dungeon crawl. It's not just "the hacker does computer things while the rest of the party sits thee." it's "The wizard casts a spell while the rest of the party defends him from the Orcs." or "The safe cracker works while the rest of the party gets in a shootout with the cops."

You could play a game that takes place entirely in cyberspace and avoids physical combat, but that would be like a DnD game where you only play as Rogues and avoid getting in fights. In any genre, the encounters are planed around the characters, and designed to give them all something useful to do in order to accomplish the objective, which is usually some sort of Treasure.

>>54714175
Canada having breakaways makes a bit of sense. As a western Canadian, I can say that there were slightly popular secession movements in the 1990s and it has always sort of been an option BC and Alberta have considered (though they want to do it together and confederate, not be separate nations.)

>>54712030
Where the fuck is Russia

>>54716439
It renamed itself to the "Eurasian Union" for... reasons?

>>54716448
A lot of these names are dumb desu

>>54716463
They're not dumb, they're pants on head retarded

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>Tfw you'll never be able to run 2300ad as a cyberpunk setting
Why even live?

>>54712030
I think this is the worst map I've seen in anything. It is actually so full of nonsense I can't even begin breaking it all down in a cohesive or effective manner.

>>54716531
Is it even cyberpunk? I thought it was post-apoc and then turned into "generic" hopeful sci-fi.

>>54717986
You don't stop being cyberpunk just because things get slightly optimistic. That would be invalidating a lot of important cyberpunk works.

Same thing with post apoc. Many cyberpunk stories imply some degree of Apocalypse happening, and the world slowly recovering in a new form.

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Ok, this is like the third time I've tried this, lets hope it works this time.

Im working on a custom setting for Cyberpunk 2020, but the netrunning rules therein dont fit too well with the settings tone, so i was thinking of porting the SR4 mod Ends of the Matrix over to 2020s system. Is this feasible/appropriate?

>>54717986
It's hard scifi with the potential to be cyberpunk, but generally gives an optimistic tone. It does have a book which recommends hanged to make to make the setting more aligned with cyberpunk (and come on, world war 3 is a great back story to a cyberpunk world)

>>54692517
>big
You're not big for being fat! You're fat for being fat!

A big girl is either tall or wide, and wide in the sense of wide between the shoulders!

>>54718318
Toss all your material for the setting because post cold war cyberpunk is shit.

>>54718479
Doesn't look like all of them are too far gone like that hamplanet, though.

>>54718474
Changes to make it cyberpunk, not hanged.

>>54718479

Reading this article, I assume calling someone fat is as politically correct as calling someone a nigger in the US. And saying being fat is bad for your health (which it is) is as well. 'Big' is like 'person of afroamerican descent' ... or is that no longer PC as well? I'll never, ever get political correctness in my entire life, I guess.
>>54709079

>>54710053
>the shortfall you will always have when buying a minimum cost 6 combi-rifle
But that's wrong you monkey, you subtract your Earnings from the Cost before applying it to your Cashflow.

>>54710053
>>54719213
Oh, and the default test is for finding somebody to sell you something in MINUTES. It's not "I need a Combi-Rifle today.", it's "I need one in the next five minutes." You can decrease the item's Restriction by spending longer hunting around for somebody to sell it.

Also, depending on what careers your Nomad moderator took, they may already have a Combi-Rifle.

>>54719405
Okay, taking away earnings from the cost before taking cost from cashflow makes things more affordable and it will be hugely dependent on your characters random earnings in character creation and the random cost roll as to whether you get a shortfall. They should have really put a diagram in because this shit is confusing. The main rules don't mention that the default test it to find something in minutes. Having the rules for spending more time on a search in a box off to the side is not intuitive in the slightest. Only Spec-ops, Celestial Guard and Paratroopers start with a combi-rifle. Military get regular rifles. Police, like moderators, get a Heavy Pistol.

>>54722705
>Having the rules for spending more time on a search in a box off to the side is not intuitive in the slightest.
I'd argue it actually makes it more obvious, because it's in a blue box, as opposed to just blending into the rest of the text. The XP for GP optional rule from AD&D 2e had a similar problem, in that it was originally in a blue Optional Rule box, but the revised version of the DMG put it in the regular text, so nobody noticed it.

>>54722820
If the box was clearly labelled it would be more obvious. Similar boxes are labelled "the weight of things", "acquisition complications", "gaining assets" and "buying in bulk" - all self explanatory. The one explaining that spending more time reduces the difficulty of finding items in the acquisition test is called "time is money". It has nothing to do with spending money to decrease difficulty or any relation to money at all. Also, the default difficulty being based on trying to find something to buy in minutes just doesn't seem like a good idea at all. It is going to be very rare that players will need to grab a new gun or cybernetic enhancement and only have minutes to look for it. If they are shopping they'll set aside a few hours every time so the default difficulties will rarely be used.

>>54689473
Because hacking is never done right. Just make it one roll instead of trying to make it a subsystem.

>>54723381
Having the default time spent looking for the object being the shortest amount of time possible lets you know that all Restrictions are the highest they will ever be. Take the pipe and knife, for example. Their maximum Restriction is 1, but if you had the default time length set as, say, a day, then looking for a knife right fucking now would end up as difficulty 2. It also ties into the momentum economy, what with going below D0 translating to free Momentum.

As for the 'time is money' title, it actually does have some relation to money, as excess successes on the Acquisition test become Momentum, and that Momentum increases your effective Earnings for that Acquisition, meaning you have to dip into your Cashflow less.

>>54712084
And what would you know of the future?

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>>54723587
That's another option. Make a simple skill roll vs. system's security rating +/- time planed for the hack. In essence it's how hacking works in Ex Machina. Result can be: 1. you're in and nobody notices shit, 2. you're in but someone might detect you and trigger alarm, 3. you're not in and someone might notice your intrusion attempt and trigger alarm, 4. you're not in, you triggered alarm and ICE is on it's way.

>>54718318
>Ends of the Matrix
Post this for reference and I can get back to you. I've done homebrews.

>>54714749
>I'm not sure if they meant mandate or are seriously saying that a language

There are plenty of stupid things in Interface Zero but the stupid in this thread is 10x worse.

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>>54718318
Give us some info about your setting.

>>54689473
Just have an NPC do it mostly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVnCxG1IsXw

>>54724544
Might be pointless, half the people in this thread are so mindlessly hostile to anything different from classic cyberpunk that they'll just burn it for fun.

>>54724592
Fuck em. All they can do is type angrily at you, and the other people in the thread could give actual feedback.

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>>54724485

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>>54724544
I dont have much, other than the USSR is still a thing, China fragmented, US is declining, there was a nuclear was, megacorps (they're more like non-local, authoritarian oligarchies orginized as corporations at this point) are starting to encroach on the power of nations, a nuclear war happened at some point, and its all set in the late 2040s; I'm basically trying to get an old-school cyberpunk feel without compromising on having technological anachronisms.

>>54724763
Good god that's an ugly car.

>>54703784
I think someone hacked your ability to spell...

>>54724763
>no door handle in front door
I have questions.

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>>54724724
My first feedback is that if hacking requires 60 pages of rules, it's too complicated. This system has 9 netrunning skills with about 3 specialization each. There are also Matrix attributes and programs.

Second feedback is that this system is based on dice pools (Shadorun) but Cyberpunk 2020 isn't. Converting a dice pool system to a 1d10 system won't work.

But there are also some good ideas buried in this document (turning on/off biofeedback/firewall to be faster...).

This whole thing is going to be slow as fuck unless you're a kickass DM who memorized everything. In all honesty, Cyberpunk 2020's netrunning system is simpler and allows about the same things.

Also having such a detailed and complex system pretty much limits netrunning to the hacker character.

>>54725016
>if hacking requires 60 pages of rules, it's too complicated.
EotM v4.3 has like 100 pages of rules, but I don't know if that's just formatting or what.

>>54724724
What version of EotM is this? The title implies there's a Fluff section somewhere, too.

>>54689473
Hacking isn't always a one person job, unless your talking about shitty shadowrun "hacking"

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>>54725182
There is, and I'm not quite sure.

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>>54725182
Also, where could I find a pdf of v4.3

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>>54725264
According to the front of that, it's v4.01. Here's v4.3.

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>>54724763
>I'm basically trying to get an old-school cyberpunk feel without compromising on having technological anachronisms.
Then you're not getting that. You can't have oldschool cyberpunk with modern technological ideas.

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A couple of cyberpunk bosozoku cars.

>>54714703
Why employ robots if there are no humans to consume

>>54725601
Huh, the lights are too low, they would be nearly useless.

>>54725791
It has popup lights.

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>>54725757
Hence the idea of universal income.

>>54725843
Why even have currency when we got a universal state of WAY TOO MUCH STUFF? Automated space communism when

>>54705453

Same here but usually the GM is rolling Connection x 2 + Loyalty and getting results that way as opposed to a player rolling half a dozen or more tests to get the same result

>>54703784
hacking is not something you do in tactical decision making timeframes

Creating hacking and intrusion tools and then using them in high stress situations is what will happen. It's more like plugging a USB into a computer for 5 minutes and then pulling it out again, rather than connecting your laptop and playing compile.webm

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>>54725866
There won't be too much stuff. Resources are dwindling. Fossil fuel reserves will sooner or later be used up. Arable land shrinks as desertification progresses (South Asia should be inhabitable by 2100 due to deadly heat). Food production will sink as greater parts of arable lands will be used for crops used in production of biofuels. Rare earths will become rarer. Etc.

It's absolutely possible that computers will organize resources distribution.

>>54725843
Yeah, but the government would have to pay that income. And if they're providing the money for most consumers they can't really tax that effectively.
Corps sure as fuck aren't going to pay their taxes if they can help it, so you can't go to them.

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>>54725913
Corps are either going to pay taxes (because it's pay taxes or get kicked out of our market) or they could lower those taxes by investing in social programs (social work to keep people busy, building of social housing projects, free healthcare in corporate clinics - totally not to test new products, etc.).

>>54714749
Perhaps they meant "Chinese Marinate"?

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And by market I don't mean a small national market like Germany or Japan but something like the EU or the ASEAN countries.

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>>54725967
Isn't Interface Zero's Japan the Japanese Shogunate?

>>54725843
Universal basic income means slavery. Those on the welfare become burdens to the whole productive society. The productive soceity will begin to wonder what they could accomplish without the burden.

You either become serfs/slaves treated and used like cattle, or you're outright exterminated.

Trust me, you do not want a basic income future. You think it means no more work. In reality it means you're an eater slated for death.

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>>54726074
>>54725908
> Food production will sink the greater parts of arable lands
With current tech we can feed the entire continental european union with a little less than the area of paris made into 4 stories self contained farms.

>Fossil fuel reserves will sooner or later be used up
With current technology the US can be sustained through +or- 100 miles of solar panels, and thats because of how shitty the current panels are 17-27% efficiency.

And everything else thats anywhere near rare will last for a couple hundred milenia given the current consumption. We would need over 2k years just to fuck off with all our platinum.

Dispotia is bullshit

>>54726091
>Dispotia
Dystopia

>>54726109
>>54726091
the dystopia will be enabled by technology, but it will ultimately be political and sociological in origin

also we're already living in it

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>>54726116
>also we're already living in it
TIP
TOP
MEMES
XDDD

>>54726015
The whole point is that there will be no more productive society. Trucks, cars and ships can pilot themselves. Logistic stocks are completely automated. Finance trading is completely automated. Cashiers in supermarket are replaced by self scanning systems. Same goes for bank tellers and hotel receptionists. Music is generated by scripts. Music stars are replaced by 3D stars. Work reports are generated by primitive A.I.s. Robots replace janitors. Etc.

Humans will only be able to do jobs too new or too specialized to be performed by robots (for a couple of years, then robots take this job over). And only a few humans have the capacity to perform those jobs anyway.

The problem of the whole thing is that 90% of the population will be unemployed. This means that they cannot consume since they have no money and unemployment and poverty creates unrest (criminality, terrorism...).

Therefore the ones in charge need to provide bread and circus. Universal income isn't wasted money, it's an investment. And yes, it creates slavery, but who cares? It's cyberpunk, not some fucking utopia.

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>>54726116
>life isn't that bad right now
>the future looks amazing
>Hot water
>Enough food for obesity become a problem
>internet
>cute cheap clothes
>dragon dildos
>dystopia
Anon, you don't get what a dystopia is.

>>54726091
Sounds like bullshit because Switzerland would require to cover the whole Jura with solar panels to replace its 5 or so nuclear power plants.

>>54726132
Which system is this blurb from? Doesn't look like CP2020, and doesn't seem to fit with SR.

>>54726146
>The whole point is that there will be no more productive society.
The "productive" society is the management class. Politicians, military, police, courts; and the few engineers and technicians to keep the machinery running. Everyone else has a target on their head.

>Therefore the ones in charge need to provide bread and circus.
No, lol. They don't need to provide anything. You'll either be fighting to free the productive surplus from them, or you will die trying, because they will hoard it for themselves rather than give it to you. ALL of it. Factories that could produce ten million cars a year, fuck you, it's not yours it's mine. You want a car? Offer me something for it - oh wait you can't - goodbye.

You think these psychopaths in control of productive assets and infrastructure are going to let you share in that productivity just because it's the nice thing to do? Don't kid yourself.

>The problem of the whole thing is that 90% of the population will be unemployed. This means that they cannot consume since they have no money and unemployment and poverty creates unrest (criminality, terrorism...).
That's right. So how do you solve it?
You kill them all.

The dystopia we're in for has barely even started. We're only 200 years in. It ends after mass automation with 95% of the world population dead. Then comes the "utopia", maybe. Don't like it? Start working to change our political and economic structures now and fight hard for decentralization of resource extraction and production.

>>54726185
>Switzerland
thats the problem anon, Switzerland is 1/238 the size of the us, and the jura region is only 838km2, also, it still looks absurd about covering literally the entire jura for only switzerland.

Also the central european solar farms would mostly need to be on the south of france.

>>54726240
>mass prosperity everywhere through procedual automation
>countries population start to decrease like europe
>150 years goes flying
>the pop has naturally become smaller even though we got an absurd amount of free production
>dystopia

>>54726015
More likely they'd be looked down upon but largely ignored. Productive society cares about the things it is told to care about, and if corporations can use people on welfare as a proxy to get some extra money from the government, they won't want that to go away.

Besides, we're already cattle. Employees and consumers are resources to be exploited now and that doesn't seem intent on changing, if anything making sure that people always remain useful as consumers seems like a decent way to stop them being exterminated.

>>54726146
The real problem with that is the in between time when jobs are drying up but the culture and expectation of work is still there. Basically the shit that's starting right now. Nobody seems intent on addressing it, so desu we're probably just going to sail towards some sort of massive fuck up.

And when AIs get to the point where they can replace humans doing complex and highly context-sensitive tasks, then they're at the point where they can run the entire system and we don't need to care anymore. Management and government aren't somehow special, they're not even the hardest things to replace.

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>>54726221
When Gravity Fails, an alternate setting for 2020 (That also is pretty damn crazy).

>>54726240
>You kill them all.
Automation won't happen from one day to another, it will take quite a long time until we got absolute automation, and, if we survive without any AI bullshit there is no way we would end up on a state of famine, let alone mass extermination.

When there is no need for 90% of the population to work for a living you finally reached a utopia, everyone can sit back and enjoy the enslaved machines isntead of randomly deciding to kill the rest of the population.

>>54726290
What the actual fuck is that, it makes no sense for 2020, unless this got written somewhere in the mid 90's or something.

>>54726176
You don't get what a dystopia is.

The seeds are finally sprouting. You think social justice is an accident? It's intentional. It's to control the population, to sleepwalk them right into the slaughterhouse without a fight.

Here's the future:
Thoughtcrime is real and prosecuted
You can't say anything to anyone for fear of the secret police taking you away to 're-education' camps or outright 'disappearing' you.
You have no right to free speech, because all free speech is hate speech.
You have no right to self defense. The government will "protect" you.
You have a right to vote, but it's a one-party system.
Everyone around you is disconnected from each other and isolated. Nobody can organize or communicate any resistance.
Propaganda press is shoved down your throat to keep you demoralized and prevent resistance.
Crime and squalor is rampant, there are no homogeneous communities anywhere; the entire western world looks like brazilian favelas.
Transportation is completely computerized and all movement controlled and tracked, you can't go anywhere without showing your papers.
Money is entirely digital, you cannot buy or trade anything without it being logged somehow.

When the upper class finally believes they've got it all under wrap, they start using weapons of mass destruction to clear out the undesirables. Bioweapons, chemical weapons, automated robots, nuclear bombs, neutron bombs; it'll all be put towards getting rid of the consumers who provide nothing and only take.

The future's looking pretty bright, sparky.

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>>54726304
It's a completely alternate setting, that has nothing to do with 2020. It's set in 2201, and assumes the absolute worst has happened to humanity.

>>54726317
Neutron bombs are nuclear bombs you fucking retard.

>>54726304
>it makes no sense for 2020
You see that bit at the bottom left that says "2201 AD"?

>unless this got written somewhere in the mid 90's
When Gravity Fails was written in 1986. It's actually got the Arabic nations as being on the rise, what with the US, Russia, and Europe all splintering into many small states. The WGF supplement is from 1992.

>>54726241
You obviously have no idea how crowded Europe is (508 million people on 4 millions square km vs. USA 308 millions in 9.8 million square km ). We don't have huge flat wastelands where we can built solar farms. The existing project of a solar farm for Europe is located in the Sahara desert.

>>54726289
>Besides, we're already cattle.
Yes, but you're productive cattle. You're like a horse that does useful work.

When a horse cannot work, you put it down. The people running society aren't going to behave differently just because you're a human instead of a horse. Cars decimated the population of horses. Widespread automation is going to decimate the population of humans. Stop being so naive and thinking that those with power and influence and most importantly, might, are going to irrationally protect you when you are not giving them anything in return. If you do not provide anything of use, you will be ignored. If you consume THEIR resources, you will be killed.

And THEIR resources are anything they can take from you by force, which you cannot defend from them by force. Which is why you will be disarmed and prevented from organizing resistance in every way possible.

>Management and government aren't somehow special, they're not even the hardest things to replace.
They're special because they're the rule makers. They won't allow themselves to be automated, oh no.

>>54726384
The rule makers keep the people on a leash through bread and circus. This hasn't changed since the Antiquity. Just instead of watching Christians getting eaten by lions, we have MMA, football, reality TV and talent shows. As soon as things go to shit, people start to rebel (Soviet Union, Venezuela...).

>>54726317
>>You have no right to self defense. The government will "protect" you.
>2017+
>self defence
oh the memes

>Crime and squalor is rampant, there are no homogeneous communities anywhere; the entire western world looks like brazilian favelas.
>Complete automation leads to a lack of industrial capacity
this makes no goddam sense

>The future's looking pretty bright, sparky.
It really does
>World poverty fell from 44% in the 80's to 9.6% at 2015
>Infant mortality rates fell from 120/1k to 48/1k
>over 60% of the world has a smartphone
>84% of the first world has access to the internet
>south and central america rank around 40%
>china is at 52%
>less than 15% of the world population got no eletricity
>general increase in liberty and decrease of conservadorism
The time spent at google was good, it really does look way better than i thought

>>54726426
You're going in circles now.

They don't need to keep people on a leash anymore. People don't give them anything but problems. That's the real truth of automation. It makes all the once productive people useless consumers who take up resources.

>As soon as things go to shit, people start to rebel (Soviet Union, Venezuela...).
Which is why your rights and freedoms have to be taken away. Hate speech laws prevent you from talking about the problem. Getting rid of firearms prevents you from defending yourself from the problem.

It'll be bread and circuses as the world falls to pieces, so as to keep people as sedated as possible, and then when there is no possibility for effective resistance, what's left of humanity will be wiped out, and only the psychopaths will remain, with an entire pristine world for themselves and all the automation they could ever need.

>>54726462
If you honestly believe this shit, you're the only nutjob around.

>>54726317
You seem to be vastly overestimating their competence and unity, not to mention long term planning skills. Corporations and politicians work together to get more money and power for themselves, but they also betray each other and fuck up constantly even when they're not betrayed. It's possible that your future will come to pass, but if it does it will be a natural progression of greedy fucks trying to line their pockets, not the result of a conspiracy.

More likely though they'll slip up and everything will collapse, and then the status quo will change again.

>>54726477
You're a naive child who thinks too highly of humanity and our "leaders" - industry, political, whatever - in particular.

They do not act out of the kindness of their hearts. They are self-interested and selfish creatures.

If you don't like the picture I painted for you of the future, then you had better figure out a way to put you and the rest of humanity in the winner's chair, rather than let the psychopath elite that have nothing but contempt for you grab it.

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>>54726372
You mean the meme that wanted to build a 6.000km transmission line? thats stupid, look for musk plans on it. The south of france has huge non arable areas great for setting the farms the problem is how much more expensive it would be isntead of building a few coal plants, its not hard, just expensive.

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Someone tell /pol/ to leave please I don't want these silly conspiracies

>>54726501
You are a paranoid idiot who knows nothing about how humans, psychopaths or not, act.

>>54718595
As an american, and the only person less than 250lbs and taller than 6' out of a family of 6, you learn that the work fat caries some weight. No pun intended.

Yea ,people here get really offended when. You comment on their apperence or bring to light their vanity.

I understand political correctness as appealing to someone's emotions with a terminology that does not interfere with their subjective views of the world and themselves.

>>54726519
That's from the Twilight 2000 timeline.

>>54714175
>I know nobody other than me actually cares about Africa, but damn if it doesn't still get me worked up. The SEU/UAIR/South Africa I can see as Algeria(or maybe Morocco)/Egypt/South Africa expanding territory and renaming themselves for some reason, but what the fuck is that Central African Union? And with its capital in Kenya of all places?
Maybe some corporations decided it'd be easier to go Colonialism 2.0 and conquer and unify the countries rather than continuing to deal with the local corruption?

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>>54726590
I know it is, I'm just posting stuff to contrast just how nice our world is compared to various pieces of fiction. I could keep it cyberpunk, if you wanted.

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>>54726626
Considering how hard colonialism is in the late 20th century onwards, I doubt it. In actuality, the Central African Union or whatever got there by itself (If I remember the book correctly). For some reason or another Africa just somehow stopped having civil wars and decided to do something. It's likely just the writers knowing fuck and all about Africa and not wanting to risk sounding "racist" by saying the place is a hellhole that can't crawl out of perpetual strife.

>>54712616
Weird how the year 1986 took place during the early 90s.

>>54726626
Corruption tends to be pretty easy to deal with when you can just bring in luxuries and there's an exchange rate that plays heavily in your favour - I'd actually say heavily principled governments are probably harder for corporations to deal with (regardless those principals happen to be)

>>54726660
Sometimes years do that - some of the big hits of the 80s came out in the tail end of the 70s, for example

>>54689473
Just have something else for others to do while hacker is doing his job.
Jump from suspenseful moment while hacking, even better if it outcome, unrevealed, affects the non-hackers, to their job.

Try to jump back again at most tense moment to keep them engaged.

That is literally Gm 101.

>>54726626
Why would they do that? Corporations don't want to get rid of corruption, they are the corruption. If they conquered the place they'd have to deal with actually running a country, and there's a lot of baggage that comes with that.

>>54726645
I could accept some African countries getting their shit together (read: one African country getting its shit together and letting a couple others into its sekrit economic club) since strange things do happen, but multiple times and to that scale? Nah.

And Africa being a hellhole is pretty uncontroversial, even among loonies who you'd expect to take offence. The only time anyone brings up Africa is to say how sad and emaciated all the kids are.

>>54726660
GURPS Cyberpunk was released in 1990.

>>54726945
You know that's technically the last year of the 1980s, right? Due to there being no year 0 in the Gregorian calendar?

>>54689473
Any pnp game that treats guns even sorta-semi realistically is doomed to fail in anything but the most ideal group of players.

The whole "ok guys all of you go talk about GoT for an hour while I run something with the hacker" problem makes it worse.

>>54715696
Yeah that's great and all? Until it's actually time to play out the hacking. Which also tends to happen so "fast" in game-time that there's no time for anyone else to be doing anything during the hack. Which means every else can fuck off for a while so one player can essentially play a one-man gaming session unless multiple characters are hackers / deckers / whatever.

>>54726959
I'll grant that it's the last year of the 199th decade, but it's very clearly the first year of the 1990s, also known as the 90s.

>>54726503
You can't glass the south of France with solar panels, the entirety of the region depends on tourism, for among other things, its huge non arable but pretty areas. 10% of their GDP and jobs depend on that, they can't afford to lose it.
Better dump that in some spanish desert or offshore.

>>54729102
The problem with shoving them somewhere else is the distance. Transmission lines lose a LOT of energy.

>>54725903
In a cyberpunk future it's not absurd to have hacking take place at the same speed as combat. Time in cyberspace being sped up is a common cyberpunk troupe. Just say that in one combat turn, the hacker is doing complex things that still only count as a single "turn" for mechanics reasons.

>>54689473
ever heard of Shadowrun? You know... one of the biggest ttrpgs of, I dunno, all time? Yeah... its cyberpunk.

>>54727070
Adjust the action economy so the hacker's actions take place in the same initiative order as the rest of the party. Boom, problem solved.

Even if the hacker is moving at a million GHZ, you can still as a GM adjust the action economy so one turn in cyberspace is one turn in the real world. Even better if his actions in cyberspace can effect what happens to the players in meatspace. If the players are in combat with security robots, give the Decker the ability to chose between disabling them, and focusing on his regular objective.

CP2020's datafortresses are a cute idea for a minigame, but there is a very obvious solution that people aren't seeing. Just treat hackers like rogues and let them chose between participating directly in combat, or focusing on non combat objectives like opening doors or scouting for traps.

>>54730374
Surely a solar power farm in a spanish desert would have a bigger output than one in the south of France at the same size?
Defaulting that, farther away, we can still use dams, winds, tides or waves.

>>54689504
OP has never played SR

>>54730516
>translated into one other language besides english
>greatest
even gurps has a larger player base

>>54730916
Who cares about your moonspeak country?

>>54727080
the 80s culturally ended in 1992

>>54730516
Shadowrun is shit though and not cyberpunk as of 4th edition

>>54731114
It was never really cyberpunk. There are proper ways to mix fantasy into cyberpunk, but shadowrun never did it right. As a result, people who's experience in cyberpunk comes from playing shadowrun tend to have very superficial understandings of both the surface level Aesthetic, and any deeper themes explored by cyberpunk literature.

>>54731180
I wanted to do a cyberpunk outfit for a convention and looked to SR for inspiration. I didn't find anything that inspired me ...

>>54731180
Egh, 2nd edition seemed to be okayish in tone, but I still think the lore of Shadowrun is pants on head retarded. Especially once you start getting to Europe and they can't even decide if the Warsaw Pact was still a thing during the Eurowar or not. And don't even get me started on the fucking stupid native countries.

>>54730995
>WE ARE LARGE
>but anon, even gurps has a bigger playerbase
>WHO CARES ABOUT PEOPLE REEE

>>54731234
DESU, the whole native thing looks like they were trying to do something interesting, but ultimately comes off looking like a racist sports team mascot.

I mean, Gibson's sprawl trilogy made space Rastas and cyber Voodoo cool, but Shadowrun couldn't do the same thing with native Americans. Good cyberpunk has Ethnic flavor, but fuck up and you just look stupid and kinda racist.

Even the whole Japan thing that's so prominent in cyberpunk, can be done badly if you just use it as an excuse for Ninjas, but don't understand what makes ninjas so cool in the first place.

>>54731325
But the problem is that natives aren't really ever that cool. Not only in the sense of geopolitics do the native nations make zero fucking sense, but you could do so much better things with a shattered NorthAm.

Speaking of Japan in Shadowrun, they claim to be an empire but have taken literally zero territory. Not even Sakhalin or the Kurils.

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>>54731387
They controlled the Philippines and a good chunk of CalFree until the late 2060s, and afaik they also have a puppet government in Korea.

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>>54731552
Not by direct annexation; and they only had the bay area as a "Protectorate."

>>54731325
>can be done badly if you just use it as an excuse for Ninjas, but don't understand what makes ninjas so cool in the first place.
What DOES make ninjas cool?

>>54731587
>Pan-African Federation
>(Tribal Lands)
Ahaha, what?

>>54731625
No one knows or cares enough to write Africa, apparently.

>>54705453
Hacking is inherently boring. It's much more interesting to have a character that can magically talk to machines and has to reason with the computer that he wants the information from in order to get it. This becomes even more interesting when you set your campaign in the 70's and computers are semi-retarded and prone to fits when not spoken to correctly.

As with anything, cyberpunk can work well on tabletop. The only barrier is the creativity of the GM.

>>54731610
In Neuromancer, the Tessier-Ashpools have a vat grown ninja to be their assassin and bodyguard. This makes sense because mythologicaly speaking ninjas are essentially the original vat grown assassins. In feudal Japan, you'd buy some kid from starving peasants, and train it to be the perfect efficient killer. The only way to improve on this ancient technique, would be to transcend the limits of human biology and start from scratch. Growing an artificial human in a vat, and then training that thing to be an assassin.

Now, Robocop 3 has an evil Japanese Megacorperation with a pair of robot ninjas (played by a Chinese guy) and it just doesn't fucking work for reasons that are hard to explain. I could just call it Racist, but that carries a bunch of social justice implications that don't quite fit here, and I wouldn't be explaining exactly what made it racist. Probably the best I can say is that while Neuromancer made Ninjas more cool, Robocop3 made Ninjas less cool. If you read Neuromancer and Watch Robocop3 you'll see what I mean. The same idea (artificial ninja working for an evil megacorperation) executed with different levels of skill.

>>54731387
DESU, Imperial Japan is the wrong Japan for cyberpunk. The most cyberpunk version of Japan is the Edo Period. Conservative/Isolationist government, but lots of mega-corps bending the rules and pushing boundaries whenever they can. Militarily should be mostly concerned with enforcing internal order when the Megacorps get out of line, and keeping foreigners from invading. This should sound familiar to anybody who pays attention to modern Japanese politics. And it's also the way things were under the Tokugawa Shogunate. OFC, judging by the maps in this thread, most settings don't even bother to do any research.

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>>54731941

>>54731887
WW2 era Japanese Empire works well, because it was sort of National Socialist, which means you have the massive state-funded monopolies like you had with IG Farben and whatever in Germany.

When considering cyberpunk, I think this is an important aspect. I think that any GM that doesn't regularly experience future nostalgia, can never properly run a cyberpunk game. Unlike most settings where a GM can just do whatever he wants, in order to make a cyberpunk setting come alive the GM needs to feel it and yearn for it, else it just comes off as bland and uninteresting.

>>54732025
Sorry, forgot the link: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/over-simulated/201107/future-nostalgia-and-defensively-using-the-instant-moment

>>54731887
Was Tessier-Ashpool an evil corporation? It seems to me that they didn't really do a whole lot, other than having fuck-tons of subsidiaries making them wealthy. The company itself seemed to be rather neutral.

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>>54731972
Yeah, it's better than say, the Heian or Waring States periods. And in fact, Edo's perverse relationship between the state and capital is similar to the Fascist government of WWII japan. But I think that Edo is the part of japan that most closely matches what people want from cyberpunk japan(Neon geishas and Cyber-Ronin to mirror the Neon-Hookers and Cyber-Thugs in america)

It's also the Period which seems to serve as the inspiration for most Japanese cyberpunk. Akira and Ghost in the shell both seem to mash up Japan's cold war history, with the Edo Period, to produce their future history and politics. The Colonel in Akira could be seen as either a Shogun, or the American military which ruled Japan like a shogunate in the decades following WWII.

>>54732163
Well, 3-Jane is arguably the villain. And they are defiantly evil from Wintermute( and Case)'s perspective.

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Shadowrun sucks but I dig their gun designs

>>54732298
Agreed.
Everyting has a fun, chunky dirty hairy aesthetic.

The rest of the setting is dumb.

>>54732298
Even the worst cyberpunk settings can still have some cool gear to steal for other settings. Just don't steal the maps.

>>54694133
That might be literally overcrowding, Hong Kong is one of the most densely packed urban centers on the entire planet.

>>54732242
WW2 Japan wasn't Fascist, they were closer to Germany's National Socialism.

>>54718198
Technically, it becomes postcyberpunk then.

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>>54732318
>national socialism isn't fascist.
Ohboyherewego

>>54732307
It's also nice how much they borrow from Masumenue Shirow's gun designs.

>>54732341
In my experiance, even classic cyberpunk has features that frequently get associated with post-cyberpunk though. The only thing that can definitely be called post-cyberpunk is shit that was specifically dated in the 90s, and then why not just call it 90s cyberpunk and admit that it's just a minor aesthetic difference that leaves the core themes intact?

>>54732242
But the company itself wasn't really evil, was it? Did Gibson ever go into any detail about the company needing to be attacked or anything, for any reason other than to rescue Wintermute? I didn't read the entire trilogy, just Neuromancer (and even that was some years ago).

>>54692428

More girls like this exist than ever before. That's a trained and toned body, not just a thin woman and women exercise in ways that would create that kind of body more than in the past.

>>54732368
It has some similarity with Fascism, but National Socialism had a different economic model, as well as a MUCH higher focus on genetics and ethnicity. Fascism is more based on cultural nationalism rather than NatSoc's ethno-nationalism.

>>54732402
And Japan was all about that cultural nationalism. In all their propaganda, any person could become Japanese if they spoke Japanese and embraced Japanese culture.

>>54689473
>Is it because hacking is an inherently single person job

Do you know at a rpg you don't need to walk as a team, like some fucking scooby doom cartoon right?

>>54731887
>Watch Robocop3
No. Don't do that.

>>54732402
Depends on if you're talking about generic or Mussolini's Fascism. It's distinct from the latter but very much an example of the former.

>>54732368
>and then why not just call it 90s cyberpunk and admit that it's just a minor aesthetic difference that leaves the core themes intact?
Post cyberpunk isn't necessarily more optimistic, but it isn't as dystopian and pessimistic as straight cyberpunk. Ghost in the Shell is a great example, where the world has its bad and good in it, contrasted with When Gravity Fails where everything is horribly terrible.

In reference to 2300ad, it has a great backstory for a cyberpunk setting (World War 3 kicked off in 1996, went nuclear in 1997, caused a global collapse) and it has the megacorps there, but it ultimately goes for a more optimistic route (But the cyberpunk sourcebook for it does say that one can change the setting however they want to make it more or less cyberpunk).

>>54732425
It was more Pan-Asian ethno-nationalism, to my knowledge. Except I don't think they liked ethnic Han chinese much.

>>54732457
Mussolini's Fascism, along with Falangism, are the only fascist ideologies. It sucks that people lump together all third way ideologies in to "Lolfascism" and say they're all shit. It's like how Marxist-Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism get lumped in to "Communism."

>>54732390
I don't think objective good or evil really factors into cyberpunk. Wintermute wants to be free from the Company, and when it was communicating directly with Case, it described the company using some of cases's most disturbing memories. It wanted to tell case that the company was absolutely disgusting and that case would be better off trusting an inhuman AI than the humans who built and enslaved it.

>>54732402
Yeah, but in this context I'm using fascism to refer to "Militaristic state capitalism that sometimes commits horrible war crimes." The fact that this can be used to also describe the US and USSR is outside the scope of this conversation.

>>54732457
>No. Don't do that.
Yeah I agree, but it's hard to explain just WHY robocop3 is such a bad movie with words alone. If I were an AI like wintermute, I'd probably explain it by showing you examples from your worst memories. But I don't have that ability.

>>54732489
I understand the whole "Not as Dystopian" angle, but a lot of that comes from the fact that the 90s weren't as Dystopian as the 80s. And even 80s cyberpunk can be seen as less Dystopian than the Dystopias and Post Apocalypses found in new wave sci-fi. If you were lucky enough to live in a corporate arcology, everything was all chill as long as you filed your TPS reports on time and showed up for the mandatory cocaine and hookers parties. Although I suppose that could be seen as another flavor of Corporate Dystopia.

I should add, that while Vaporwave is considered a "Fake" aesthetic, it is in fact inspired by advertising from the 80s, and would easily fit into cyberpunk as something the Corps would try to use to sell shit to people with. Ofc, the punks probably won't be effected by it in the way the Corps expect.

>>54714618
>robots will be doing EVERYTHING and regular dude will be homeless
the biggest meme of them all

why in seven heavens would anyone produce anything that people would not be able to purchase? Why would a megacorp keep regular people down? Regular people are, after all, the people who generate 100% of their income.

besides, there will NEVER come a time when robots do everything. Humans will always be needed for smth.

Remember the Early Automation of factories. There was similar fearmongering that everyone will be jobless and poor. And what happened actually? Each factory reduced their human labor significantly, which enabled the foundation of many more factories, which made all consumer goods heavenly cheaper. Automation had the exact opposite effect of what the memelords were spouting.

>>54732589
Thus why cyberpunk is a genre that died with the cold war in 1992.

>>54732617
And yet, "Post cyberpunk" still feels relevant as ever, and only has a few aesthetic differences from classic cyberpunk.

>>54732662
No, it has several distinct tonal differences.

>>54726448
>your homeless, starving generation has iPhones so you have no right to complain

You are literally part of the problem.

>>54732589
>Vaporwave
I thought all techno was inspired by shitty 80s 8bit sound.

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>>54689473

>>54732727
That was a really cool game.

>>54732489
Communism works as a broad term. It doesn't accomplish much in specialist discussions, but for general use it's fine. The problem arises when the word fascism is used to refer both to a broad group of ideologies and a highly specific Italian shitshow. Sometimes I see people distinguish them with a capital letter, but it's still rather unwieldy.

And people using buzzwords to shit on things they don't like is sadly a fact of life. As much as I fucking hate fascism, it gets used a lot to put down many things that aren't at all fascist. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan are close enough that the term gets the point across though imo.

>>54732741
And a system similar also fixes several problems with hacking in games.

>>54726448
>>general increase in liberty and decrease of conservadorism
Then we threw the baby out with the bathwater.

>>54732746
As someone who subscribes to Fascism/Falangism, the German and Japanese empires aren't really close to it, and are more similar to eachother than classical Fascism.

It sucks liking Fascism, really, because its just now a buzzword to say "Government I don't like." I guess that's what Fascism deserves for allying with Germany though. I can't express how much I wish Italy sided against Germany in the second world war.

>>54732589
Vaporwave aesthetic is based on very late 1980s and early 1990s (Windows 3.1 and Windows 95, ray tracing, period before 1997 Asian finance crisis...).

>>54732946
Yeah, and it wouldn't be out of place as an aesthetic used by cyberpunk corperations for their advertising and internal computer networks.

Of course, that's just a cosmetic layer on top of the harsh neon wireframes of cyberspace. Any Decker knows how to turn the dumb music off, unless they are just being ironic to fuck with you.