>That one card you love that's completely useless thanks

>>54684175
Fuck off, XYZ Dragon Cannon was shit before all the new extra deck mechanics. It has literally never seen competitive play ever.

Fuck me did you get laughed out of the YGO thread on /vg/ so you came here to bitch instead?

malice doll of demise

>>54684245
Was also never good. Why are you both so bad at this game?

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Pretty much anything that uses Polymerization has been completely useless since Synchros

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>>54684289
Is Polymerization even used anymore?
There's, like, a fuckload of different ways to Fusion Summon without it nowadays.

>>54684289
You have literally not played since Synchros. Decks like Fluffals unironically use Polymerization and manage to get tops in nipland.

Holy shit. All of you are whiny faggots who know nothing about this game but are content to sit here and bitch about
>MUH WHITE AND BLACK CARDS RUIN EVERYTHING
You are like the fags who go on /vp/ and complain about how everything after red and blue version is shit. I'm fucking out of here, maybe next time give shit a chance and do your homework before you complain.

Oh also, for what it's worth? Thousand-Eyes Restrict has been banned for over a fucking decade. He only just became legal play recently, you fuck.

>>54684175
Man Eater Bug was always fun to use.

I don't know if it's still any good with all the weird bullshit getting released now. Last I heard, all of the Knights of the Round table were getting cards, only using their welsh names for no fucking reason.

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>>54684341
Fluffals rely on poly and they're a pretty good deck

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>>54684464
Yeah, but couldn't you use shit like pic related and get the same effect?

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>>54684553
It's much worse since fluffals can't spam main deck monsters out on to the field, which fusion sub requires, nearly as good as they can draw 3 or 4 more materials to use from hand, Plus cards like pic specifically search only poly

>>54684553

Sub requires monsters to be on the field, you can't use any in your hand.

also OP is a retard casual who is complaining about changes to the game despite not having played it since he was a kid

>>54684631
The game hasn't been good since 2008

>>54684553
>>54684628
Can't Fluffals use Fusion gate? Or do they do good stuff in the graveyard? I haven't played the game in like two years. I only played online since the decks I liked were like $300 and I don't like spending that kind of money on cards that'll get banned next format.

>>54684704
Fusion Gate is fucking trash.

>>54684667
You are fucking trash.

>>54684704
>I don't like spending that kind of money on cards that'll get banned next format
So play a casual T3 deck that will never get banned. That's what I do. You can clean up at locals with it without ever touching the top tier decks that are banlist bait.

>>54684667

>nostalgiafags complaining about changes to games they don't play

Why is this allowed?

>>54684704
Fusion Gate is bad anon. Banishing your own shit in newgioh is a horrible idea in most decks, also because it's a field it's easily removed where as polymerization has to be negated which is MUCH harder.

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>>54684704
Fluffals can fusion summon using their graveyard. Fusion Gate is a bad card.

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>>54684289
Bull shit. Fusions have never been better.

>>54684715
Why, exactly? It accomplishes the same thing, only catch is dying to MST before you can use it. Or is that the problem? Last I checked MST was limited.
>>54684740
I wasn't smart enough when I played the game to build a decent deck that wasn't a ton of money. Best time I ever had cleaning house at locals was when dark worlds were the big thing and Treeborn was new. Friend lent me a monarch deck and I went 5-0. I was like 10 at the time. By the time I had the critical thinking skills and whatnot, I was out of the age where my parents would buy me shit on a whim, so I was budget limited. None of that impacts the fact that a lot of the people at my lgs were total fucking tryhards in every weekly locals tournament. It just got to the point where I couldn't be assed to come up with an anti-meta or budget gimmick deck that could play decently against them and I picked up a different hobby entirely after Shadolls, space jews, Dante's Inferno and Nekroz ritual fapping took over. Doesn't hurt that decision when a lot of my friends quit at the same time for varying reasons.
>>54684765
>>54684780
See that makes sense. I figured it was something like that. I legitimately didn't know why it was bad. Just seemed like an infinite poly if you didn't mind banishing and occasionally getting hosed by MST.

>>54684175
>completely useless thanks to Synchro/XYZ/Pendulum/Links
90% of cards made useless because of those were useless before them too. Your pic included.

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>>54684852
>Last I checked MST was limited
MST is unlimited, it has been for years. Also it sucks now, we have better cards. This game is MUCH different than you remember.

If you want to give it a shot again, do so now. It's the best time to learn because Links JUST came out so everyone is learning. You won't get another chance like this for a long time.

>>54684852
>Shadolls, space jews, Dante's Inferno and Nekroz ritual fapping took over.
>Bitching about the most fun meta we've ever had
Bruh

I was an awful yugioh player, and I blame my closest friends for that.

>>54684897
I'm not really interested, but it's good to know. Maybe I'll load up devpro or dueling network and try it out.
>>54684924
I played online during that meta and it was decent. I really played because I like the concept of Qlipoth (the actual Jewish kabbalah monsters) and the cards were good. I stopped playing after they got hit with the banlist and I didn't feel like adapting because I'm lazy as all hell.

>>54685012
Dueling Network is dead. They got hit with a cease and desist order. Get ygopro.

It's automated so it'll teach you how to play anyway, which is good.

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>>54685012
>I like the concept of Qlipoth (the actual Jewish kabbalah monsters)
Oh man that lore went full circle. You should read the entire duel terminal story line, Infernoids are cool as shit and pick up where the space Jews left off. I love my Infernoids and still play them to this day.

>>54685036
>C&D
RIP. Not like it matters, the game not being automated with card logic, rulings and automating the trivialities of play on top of the clunky client makes me not mourn the loss. I was already using ygopro, My friends called it devpro for whatever reason.

I wish Dueling Network had worked like Cockatrice, since that client was actually decent if you're not automating every play, but I suppose that's a bit more necessary for Magic.

>>54685089
>Not automating rulings and logic
I should specify that this was a bad thing largely because the community was full of absolute retards who didn't know the rules or were needlessly pedantic.
>>54685077
Is the lore actually good? It might be worth a read even if I don't care to play anymore.

>>54685089
>My friends called it devpro for whatever reason.
Devpro is an entirely different simulator, your friends are weird.
>>54685121
>Is the lore actually good?
If you like weeb shit and anime tier escalation, yes. I loved it. It was cool to see how it went start to finish.

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I liked the E heroes.

>>54685302
Were Elemental heroes the first decent fusion archetype? They're the first ones I can remember being halfway playable. Before them, fusions were almost always -2s at best, required playing bad cards, had very little support and on top of that, the outputs weren't good either unless you went for something like Thousand-Eyes, Black Skull Dragon or some other meme monster. Dark Paladin was good but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

Then E-Heroes came out and got fusion support. Monsters were good for more than one thing and they toolboxed reasonably well. Gladiator's came after, right? It seems to me that Synchro and Xyz were largely just retools of the fusion mechanic to make it less crippling and more versatile, but I think it power creeped the game as a result.

I miss old Ritual monsters that weren't part of an archetype, namely Reliniqushed, Demise and Shinato.

>>54685077
>lore
Does every archtype have lore or just the ones used by the main character and his support circle?

>>54686001
Duel terminal archetypes are the only ones that get real lore. Other archetypes have brief lore, including the main character ones.

>>54686051
I love the tale of the army man and his gay lizard.

>>54684667
> the game hasn't been good since 2004
Ftfy

>playing a game where every card has 20 lines of tiny text in its undersized textbox
Why.jpg

>>54686680
Because it's better than MTG.
>Playing a game where the paywall for entry is thousands of dollars because the company refuses to reprint shit
Why.bmp

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Haven't played since my freshman year of college, but are zombies still decent? I use to sweep the cafeteria in high school, but then I came across my downfall. The That Guy of Yugioh... The kid who wouldn't let me read his three paragraph long pendulum card effects, but expected me to understand everything they did.

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>>54684175
The era of the game that stretched from Cyber Dragon to Stardust Dragon was my favourite. Effects and combos, various strategies; the game required skill and knowledge to build a deck, and wasn't so hideously broken yet.

First wave Synchros were okay but everything after that went fucking nuts. RIP.

>>54687277
>paywall exists for eternal formats
>Casual formats don't exist
>Neither does standard
>Your investment value drops like a fucking stone if Konami doesn't jerk off your archetype for the next banlist
>>54687626
Honestly, fuck those people. Should've told him to pound sand if he wasn't going to let you read and understand the rules.

Destiny Board

>>54689410
MST has been around since the third set though.

>>54684464
Did fluffals survive links? I was looking at them near the start of the year but held off because of links.

>>54687626
Zombie Master was never good.
>>54687857
Treeborn Frog is great right now. He's a Link enabler.
>>54688191
>>paywall exists for eternal formats
Which are the only good formats
>>Casual formats don't exist
Fuck casual formats
>>Neither does standard
Standard is a fucking joke. The card pool is always laughable and buying a new deck every couple months is NOT cheap
>>Your investment value drops like a fucking stone if Konami doesn't jerk off your archetype for the next banlist
Not if you play a T2 or T3 deck.

>>54690977
oh good. they brought my favorite card back to prominence in service of the worst thing Konami have thought of outside of the inevitable SHADOW REALM(TM) pachinco machine.

>>54691243
>outside of the inevitable SHADOW REALM(TM) pachinco machine.
Anon your power level is showing. The shadow realm is only a thing in the TCG, in the OCG (nipland) you just fucking die.

Also fuck you, Links are necessary. This game got to a point where the meta was "make an unbreakable board as fast as possible". That's a fucking problem and Links stop it.

That said, they need to print more Links before I can consider them "good". The current ones are ass.

>>54684342
Jesus, calm down, no reason to be so defensive.
Competetive ygo is laughable, if your only evaluation of a card is its powerlevel no strings attached you are a textbook spike and Konami is honestly a good deal worse as a company than WotC.
The complains you see in this deck are not about the viability of cards itself but rather the redundancy that exists in yugioh based on a hillarious powercreep.

>>54691473
>Konami is honestly a good deal worse as a company than WotC.
Not him, but that's a good joke anon. I play MTG and honestly I'm jealous of yugibabies.

>>54691535
then you did not read into it enough.
I want to add im not defending WotC, they did/do a lot of trashy things.
However the next 2 years look very promising, i cant wait to be horribly dissapointed.

my magician survived pretty well, but my ebon illusion and dark paladin got fucked over big time.

so yeah because everyone I play with hates links, unless we are playing with a link deck, we are going to ignore this new mechanic

>>54691535
WotC is consistently shit but Konami literally cares not one bit about the balance of the game. At the very least WotC attempts to balance it. Bans in YGO aren't for balance, they are to push the new meta

>>54691565
>However the next 2 years look very promising, i cant wait to be horribly dissapointed.
Here here.

>>54691646
Dude fuck the balance argument, neither game is balanced. I'd rather cast my lot in with Konami because at least they fucking reprint shit regularly. Complain about bans in YGO all you want, it's still much cheaper than any competitive MTG format.

>>54691784
> neither game is balanced
Balancing a game 100% is difficult but to say mtg is as unbalanced as yugioh is just objectively wrong.

yu-gi-oh decks are cheaper in comparison because most cards age like shit. this is because the constant powercreep makes only the most busted or the newest cards desireable.
Because of this spending your money for ygo is to pay for the privilege to play the game, not much more.
In magic you at least have some backup as cards tend to hold their value longer/only go up in value

Only from a very ignorant perspective is yugioh cheaper than magic.

>>54691990
>yu-gi-oh decks are cheaper in comparison because most cards age like shit.
Bull shit. Magic cards age like shit too unless they are broken as fuck in eternal formats.

You obviously know nothing about YGO, YGO is cheaper on average because expensive cards ALWAYS get reprinted in easier to pull product eventually. Good cards on release typically cost $40-$70 If they are secret rares, if they stay legal which MOST do, they just get reprinted in a tin or something and that destroys the value.

Honestly I wish MTG had the same system. The reserved list is fucking retarded, and I don't really wanna pay $50 each for Crucible of Worlds or $40 each for Dark Depths. And those aren't even reserved list cards.

Holding value better or not, you cannot honestly believe MTG is reasonably affordable even if you are well off. I do very well at my job, and despite HAVING the disposable income, see the investment in MTG cards in terms of price vs how much the game costs at entry level to be ridiculous. Most eternal formats cost THOUSANDS to play competitively, and Standard is worse than YGO. In YGO the banlist only mangles your deck if your deck is on top, so if you play a lower tier deck you can use it in multiple formats usually. In MTG? They literally FORCE you to buy a new deck every format.

>>54687626
While not meta Shiranui are decent and annoying.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Shiranui
They're zombies that focus on synchro and being banished.
The most common combo is using this trap http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Shiranui_Style_Swallow%27s_Slash
and sending this http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Shiranui_Spiritmaster to the grave to pop 3 cards of your opponent.
This http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/PSY-Framelord_Omega is in every zombie deck since along with http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Mezuki is a free zombie revive every turn. Multiple revives if you have multiples.
Other zombie decks are Skull Servants and Vampires but they arent really decent.

>>54692059
just to recap what you said:
> good magic cards hold their value, this makes the game more expensive
>good yu gi oh cards do not hold their value, however they are easier to accquire
> In yugioh, as long as you are not playing a T1 deck the expense is fine

Ok, so if i want to play competetively I should not build T1 because it is way too expensive in the longrun.

I do agree that the entry cost of magic is ridiculous for eternal formats, however the fact that the money is not paid for the privilge to play but rather the product itself is a huge difference.
It basically means that a large portion of your investment will be returned.
Also, check out some of the cards that were 40-70$ in yugioh and see how their price drops once they are no longer meta. there are some jack-of-all-trades cards that can just go into every deck but aside from those ther powercreep just guarantees you hold a worthless piece of cardboard in your hand after some time.

>>54692183
>>54687626
There's also a TCG zombie archetype currently coming out. http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Vendread
Zombie type rituals that gain effects by tributing their monsters while on the field.

>>54692215
>It basically means that a large portion of your investment will be returned.
I would rather pay $300 for a deck and get $150 back than pay $2000 for a deck and get $2000 back.

I would rather lose the hundred bucks than sink thousands into easily damaged cardboard I will be shuffling and slapping on a table as an "investment".

Especially with no matter how well I take care of my cards, double sleeving and being very protective, I HAVE to let my opponent cut my deck. And in my experience? 75% of the sweaty neckbeards on the other side of the table don't just cut your deck, they pick it up and fucking shuffle it themselves and they ALWAYS manhandle and treat my cards roughly. I've had multiple cards damaged that way and nobody ever holds them responsible for it.

I play MTG casually, just EDH because of how expensive the game is, and even then both my EDH decks are worth about $500 each. I'll stick with YGO for competitive play thanks, at least there I only lose a little money which is fine because it only cost a small bit for entry level anyway.

Whoa calm down dudes.
As a mostly casual player all I see is that like 70% of YGO players are assholes, but those who aren't are mostly great people, and only about 30% of MtG players are cunts but only about 15% are great people, the rest are okay-ish.

>>54692353
That's actually surprisingly accurate. I've met way more bros playing YGO but also way more cuts.

Breakdown kinda goes like this:
>MTG
-Cool Guys are usually older, 30s or 40s, probably dads. Usually really nice and normal.
-Cunts are usually fat try hard neckbeards. They smell really bad and think they are hot shit because they have expensive cardboard. Never so much as touched a female.
Okay-ish types: Usually just socially awkward younger guys, not very good at the game but are reasonably pleasant. May have slight autism.

>YGO
-Cool guys are typically mid 20s, reasonably chill dudes who just loved the game since they were kids and stuck with it.
-Cunts are usually teenagers being bred to be future pedophiles or neckbeards in training, autism is very rampant
-Okay-ish types really don't exist. They are usually one extreme or the other.

>>54692419
>cuts
cunts

>>54692288
Hey im not trying to convert you or anything, i am simply stating the opposition.
I also think your numbers are a bit scewed, you dont have to pay 1000+$ in every eternal format, modern is of course comparatively cheap but I dont want to sugarcoat it.
You can start out with 1 deck in an eternal format and stick with it because it is, well, eternal. The metagame changes slower here and at a certain point the upkeep of your deck is based on new cards (never a huge investment).
Compare this to the everchanging, ban-dictated meta in yugioh and you easily have your 1000$ investment, just spread out.
People misstreating your cardboards is mostly bound to the lgs you go to or the area you live in.I too would want more enforcement on hygiene and general manners at the stores but this is besides the point right now.
The EDH decks are most likely the typical arms race with the lands.
honestly, EDH is the most fun on a similar powerlevel and if you can all just keep that down, the investment will stay low aswell.

>>54692460
>I too would want more enforcement on hygiene
Why are people who play TCGs so fucking gross?

>>54692603
dunno.
maybe a lack of selfawareness and detachment from reality influenced by their fantasy-baseed hobbies?

Or an interest in problemsolving and math that takes the place of basic human decency and social behaviour.

>>54692419
>tfw Mtg okay-ish guy

How do I become the cool guy

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>>54684175
>REEEEEEE xyz synchro killed the game
No extra monster can beat pic-related. Prove me the fuck wrong, nostalgiafags

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>decide to get a little nostalgic and emulated The Eternal Duelist Soul
>normal monsters with below 1000 atk and def
>lv6 monsters with lower atk and def than lv4 monsters
>Fusion monsters are fucking useless and have lower atk and def than some lv6 normal monsters
>man eater bug, penguin soldier and hane-hane at three copies each
>EVERYONE has Pot of Greed, Monster Reborn, Raigeki, Dark Hole and Grateful Charity
>Mirror Force fucks up everything for everyone forever
>I can get by just by choosing the highest atk and def low level normal monsters with some magic and trap cards for support
>I end up winning a bunch of duels using Ring of Destruction
Yu-Gi-Oh has never not been broken, it is part of the fun. Stop being nostalgic.

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>>54692659
Get your autism in check, get a decent job, and wife up a soccer mom in-training who supports your hobbies and wants to pop out a few babies. You'll become either the cool guy or the neckbeard if you keep playing. There is no in-between.

>>54692664
I mean I hate nostalgiafags too, but there are multiple extra deck monsters that can't be destroyed and just run Master the fuck over.

>>54692755
Fucking thank you. People need to take off their rose colored glasses.

>>54692755
>>54692853
most people played ygo when they were young.
Children dont care about balance, you want your blue eyes white dragon even tough it sucks, you make the epic plays and your deck is a huge pile of all the biggies you control.

The nostalgia comes from the fact that yu gi oh was young when you were young.

Also, do you remember " one summon and one card draw a turn"? That was the original flavour of the game.
Today, yu gi oh has a more distinct identity with the problem that it is not the identity a lot of people remember.

>>54692929
>one summon and one card draw a turn"?
Bull shit. Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, Monster Reborn, Card of Safe Return, Dimension Fusion, Return from the Different Dimension, Card Destruction, Morphing Jar, Premature Burial, etc... are all old as shit cards and let you go past that.

On my schoolyard everyone had fucking 3 pot of greed and 3 monster reborn for fucks sake.

>>54692853
Oh yeah Beelze can kill him but that doesn't stop the nigga getting Casteled/101'd/return to hand

>>54692962
yes, on ours too, but the difference between summoning a relatively big creature and summoning a small novel that Does everything on its own is noticeable.
Personally, i also dislike the decision of flavourtext limited to normal monsters.

>>54692995
>Personally, i also dislike the decision of flavourtext limited to normal monsters
Where the fuck are they supposed to fit it on most effect monsters? You know YGO cards are smaller than MTG ones right?

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Most fun deck in a while.

>>54693030
I'm floored that their field spell is still at 3.

>>54693043
It's not tier 1 anymore on TCG so why would they limit it.

It's doing very well in OCG though because Extra Deck spam got BTFO'd by link format.

>>54693069
>It's not tier 1 anymore on TCG so why would they limit it.
It's not so much unbelievable as surprising. They make a great cheap good pet deck, Konami would usually hit something that was on top like them.

>>54692664
you can be destroyed by five headed dragon, a fusion needing 5 dragon cards, they can easily get put out by using dragon mirror.

5000 vs 2950 attack your card is dead

and why does everyone complain about balance so much, I mean sure its annoying but its just a social game. your supposed to have fun

>>54693026
you set some weird axioms, dude.
the cards are smaller and thats why there is no flavourtext? come on now, the size of your cardboard was not divinely laid upon you.

And i maybe wanted to indirectly further critizise the ridiculous complexity of effect monsters in yugioh.
something like>>54693030 was the top-most upper limit and you had 1 or maybe 2 different cards that had 2+ effects, but that just got more common the more cards have been released.

>>54691784

It's not. Standard is cheaper than yugioh.

>>54693110
Master Peace is can pop five-headed you retard. Learn to read.

>>54693121
>Standard is cheaper than yugioh.
Good joke. My T3 YGO deck has lasted me multiple formats and cost me like $200 with minimal upkeep. In standard I would never be able to do that.

>>54693110

If you don't play the game why even try to talk about it as if you know what you're doing?

>>54693110
most people consider fair games fun.
It does not need perfect balance, perfect balance is a myth anyway, but to interact with your opponent, also known as playing the game, is something most people want when they play the game.

>>54693157

>t3

When I say standard is cheaper, i'm talking about the top decks of each format.

>>54693115

>the ridiculous complexity of effect monsters in yugioh.

It only seems that way because konami refuses to use keywords. The effects are usually pretty simple.

>>54693177
>Playing the top deck
The difference here is you don't need to be a tryhard in YGO to top locals.

>>54693201
same is true for magic.
And for both games, if someone brings a tier one deck you will probably loose if they know what they are doing, this is not bound to one card game or the other.

>>54693115
>And i maybe wanted to indirectly further critizise the ridiculous complexity of effect monsters in yugioh.
Old MTG cards are WAAAAAAY more complex than any YGO card. YGO cards just have a lot of words to explain basic effects in lieu of keywords.

Fucking try and explain banding to me, in full, without writing a paragraph.

>>54693214
You're just proving my point. It's cheaper to play a lower tier deck in YGO than MTG Standard. You have to rotate that deck out in MTG, in YGO you don't. You just adjust your side for the new meta and maybe pick up one or two new cards, if any.

>>54693201

>implying you need to tryhard to top your fnm

>>54693158
>>54693137

I do play, maybe not every day admittedly but often enough.

but I don't see anyone else trying to answer so lets try again, if that does not work then why not use big eye, take control of the monster. and you would tribute a XYZ to negate this,

>>54693159
okay, thanks for the answer

>>54693255
Because Master Peace is going to fucking pop Big Eye as soon as he hits the field. You need an ED monster that is destruction immune.

Also again, you didn't fucking read. Master Peace can make himself immune to effects.

>>54693255

Holy shit you're right, all these top players just don't know what they're doing, you should go top a YCS anon, since you clearly know so much about the game.

>>54693287
only if he tributes those monsters type, so to do so, he would need to tribute a normal monster, a trap, a XYZ, a fusion and so on.

>>54693304
no need for sarcasm

>>54693315

If you really think a monster having high attack is enough to play it, you don't know shit about the game. Removal is extremely common, summoning a monster with high attack doesn't do shit.

>>54693315
>so to do so, he would need to tribute a normal monster, a trap, a XYZ, a fusion and so on.
You're retarded. No, that's not how it works. If he tributes a monster he is immune to ALL monsters.

>>54693344
I do not think it is simply having a bigger monster. so his effect as I read it is that what he tributes, he is unaffected by.
>>54693357
okay then if he is immune to all monsters, then your saying he destroys them as soon as they are summoned?

>>54693381
>okay then if he is immune to all monsters, then your saying he destroys them as soon as they are summoned?
This statement doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Either A, you've know nothing of card games or B, you're like 14.

>>54693381
>then your saying he destroys them as soon as they are summoned?
Why the fuck would he destroy them as soon as they hit the field? Dude literally just read the fucking card.

If I tribute a blue-eyes white dragon to summon Master Peace, your Big Eye's effect WILL NOT WORK. The destruction thing is a SECOND effect to blow shit up.

So if I have Peace, immune to monster effects, you need to run him over with something more attack. Five-headed has more attack, but Peace's SECOND effect will let me banish a card from my graveyard to destroy Five-Headed. You need a monster BIGGER than Peace who is ALSO immune to card effects like >>54692853

Jesus Christ.

>>54693439
>immune to card effects
Immune to destruction effects* though both work.

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Leave Master Piss to me

>>54693110
>why does everyone complain about balance so much, I mean sure its annoying but its just a social game. your supposed to have fun

You can't have fun in a game if you don't have a fair shot at winning.

Yugioh is a game that always feels like bullshit, whether you're winning or losing. Both players are trying to do unfair shit from turn one, and the player who drew the better starting hand wins. There's very little else to the game.

>>54691398
Nigga I own the entire manga. I picked the cringiest possible name for the pachinco machine I could.

>>54684175
Can't ruin what was always shit.

>>54693225
i appreciate you trying to make conversation, however di do not believe you can truthfully hold this argument for the discussion at hand.
Cards that get printed before the game has a direction are always complicated/overpowered/useless trash or anything inbetween.
You can see this in mtg on the example of the power nine in the alpha set and cards like monster reborn, raigeki, harpy feather duster etc in yugioh.
these cards existed in the same set as some of the most unneccesary garbage in the history of the respective card games.

>>54694896
It's funny because some of the Yugioh cards you mentioned are actually legal right now in Yugioh because the power creep has actually caught up with it.

>>54694896
>raigeki
>overpowered
Raigeki is legal and isn't even used in most decks, anon.

>>54693514
FRIEND OF ALL CHILDREN

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I used to tribute summoned skull for this monster

>>54691473
Links aren't really being used in the Ochoa right now I think, it's mostly just true Draco, true king dino, trickstars, and some other stuff

>>54695104
Ocg

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>>54695049
Well then do I have a new card to show you!

>>54695104
Honestly it's going to be this way until they make good Link 2s. I don't know why Konami thought this would fly.

>>54684194
>>54684277
>>54684342
Did you not stop to think that maybe the game itself is bad, because of all these eternally useless cards?

>>54695136
I would rather they just nuke the top decks with the ban list until links are viable and then never increasing the power level

>>54694949
what are you trying to tell me with that?
I am aware that a card is also strong or weak based on the circumstances, but a one-sided boardclear with no cost attached is strong.
A card does not have to be played in every signle deck to be considered good.
This is just further proof that the powerlevel in yu-gi-oh is ever growing and this should be a large red flag for everyone.

>>54695151
>Implying any card game has eternally useful cards
Lol, even MTG and Pokemon have always had bad cards.

>>54695151

Every other card game has shit tons of bulk, why are you pretending that yugioh is the only card game with bad cards?

>>54695194
>a one-sided boardclear with no cost attached is strong
Not when everything worth using is fucking destruction immune or pluses/floats when you destroy it.

>>54695136
pretty sure great maju garzett is better than that one.

>>54695151
Mtg has draft fodder, the worst thing about Yugioh is how much they rely on bans over making balanced cards, and it's emphasis on archetypes

>>54695205
there is a difference between "has bad cards" and "a large number of cards become unplayable everytime a new set is released because they ban with this in mind and also the powercreep is ridiculous"

>>54695230
yes.
and every second card gets arround indestructible, and then there is a card that goes arround indestructable destroying effects and its just an armsrace where everyone has to buy the new cards to stay relevant.

>>54695232
>Eats your normal summon
>Doesn't get piercing
No it isn't.

>>54695250
90% of MTG cards are fucking garbage, what the fuck are you talking about? Stores literally will sell you hundreds of trash MTG cards for like 1-3 bucks just to take them off their hands. You can't do that in YGO stores.

>>54695269
>everyone has to buy the new cards to stay relevant
There is no new card. Raigeki has not been replaced, it's still good and all, it's just fair now. It's still expensive too. Your argument is invalid bud.

>>54695250

You're talking about cards that were never good in the first place.

protip: yugioh isnt the only card game that rotates out cards

>>54695304
>90% of MTG cards are fucking garbage.
If you care about competetive play and nothing else, if you care about the pure power of the card, yes you are right.
However, you will rarely find cards that are outclassed in every way when you look at the modern side of mtg.
You will find a card that is best at doing what it does, however this does not mean there arent other more nieche or budget options.
A card will be better from a competetive point of view, however this is also based on the metagame as a whole. The card in a vacuum will have a similar powerlevel as other cards at the same cost.
Also draft and pauper give the "not best" cards purpose.

>>54695417
>Also draft and pauper give the "not best" cards purpose
This is probably the most important part. There are competitive formats other than legacy equivalent in Magic. Yugioh has no such formats. Closest thing I've ever played was pre-release where you buy in and get however many packs, construct a deck and play for more packs before they come out. You could draft, cube or something but I've never seen anybody do so.

>>54695304
>There is no new card. Raigeki has not been replaced
I still cant believe you cannot grasp my argument, I half expect you to do it on purpose at this point.
Of course there is no replacement that is better than raigeki because raigeki in a vacuum is already a busted card.
The spell and trap cards that are banned or limited in yugioh are compared to the monsters relatively unimpressive.
Only because they didnt print "banish all cards on your opponents side of the field" doesnt mean there is no powercreep in the game.
powercreep forces competetive players to buy new cards to stay relevant. This is valid.

>>54695417

>this card isn't useless as long as you pretend that better cards don't exist

If a card is useless in 99% of situations, then yes, it's shit. Most cards are bulk that don't get used, it doesn't matter whether or it's good when you pretend that other cards don't exist.

>>54695482

>powercreep forces competetive players to buy new cards to stay relevant. This is valid.

Every TCG does this, it's not new.

>>54695481
could you imagine drafting in yugioh?
With tribal being such a huge part of the game the drafting process would be insufferable.

>>54695581

they made special packs for drafting to solve that problem but nobody in the community gives a fuck about drafting so they stopped

>>54695581
>what are sneak peeks?
>what were battle packs
>what's a star pack

>>54695515
There is a difference between "strictly better" and "objectively better"
you know what my definition of a shiot card is?
One that takes away from the metagame by being way too good.
I am using cards and my opponent is using cards aswell. I dont care that stronger cards get printed because i enjoy the TCG and want to play a fair game.
To just deny the existence of multiple formats is laughable.
The fact that a lot of decks in yugioh are tribal decks not based on the creature type but rather a keyword in its name also takes away from deck diversity.

>>54695481
Meanwhile Wizards doesn't give a shit about any of them save for Modern and Standard, both of which are objectively shit. One format or not, at least it's an objectively good one.

>>54695581
Draft is how the top cut of YCSs are decided you stupid pavement ape. Draft in YGO is real.

>>54695536
MTG actively tries to not do it, the banlist is also a tool not (directly) focused on making money but a tool to ensure (relative) healthiness of the game.
The moment MtG found its relative identity as a card game the cards stopped shifting in powerlevel all too much with a few notable missteps (heh) from time to time.

>>54695678
>the banlist is also a tool not (directly) focused on making money but a tool to ensure (relative) healthiness of the game
Any game where infinite combos are 100% allowed and encouraged is not even close to healthy.

>>54695669
>Draft is how the top cut of YCSs are decided you stupid pavement ape. Draft in YGO is real.
have you ever drafted? why do I never see yu-gi-oh drafts? Is it a healthy draft environment?
I am not asking these questions because i doubt you but rather because this is highly confusing to me as I never saw anything hinting to this direction.

>>54695581
It'd be horrible. That's probably why it's not done. Doesn't stop cube or another format from emerging. Last time we had a yugioh thread I was musing about a format that had a hard cap on how much money could be spent on the decks in total, and then maybe applying a different banlist for dumb cards that get reprinted a bunch. If the format ever became popular the market would decide the metagame.

Could even split it up, you could have tiers for different budget decks. Could have one for $1, $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100. I was thinking that you could name them after the presidents on each bill, but not everyone's a burgerclap and it's not important. That way, there's a finite cap on how much it'll take to get into a format.

>>54695698
that is your opinion.
however the resource system in MtG, namely the fact that things cost mana, limits this potential and in all cases of legal combo decks they are not dominating the metagame because there are other tactics that are viable.
As there should be in a healthy metagame.

>>54695711
>>54695629

>>54695724
we did 20$tourny for fun here n there
higher than that gets you into structure deck level so

>>54695724
Wargame or warhammer inspired by any chance?
And i do love the Idea, however i think that instead of making it based on prices maybe there should be a tierlist for different cards and a pointlimit based on the format you are playing in.

>>54695678
>KONAMI ONLY CARES ABOUT MONEY
Well stop the fucking presses, a major company wants money? Holy shit, that's a news story if I've ever seen one! But let me tell you a secret anon, Wizards does too. Let's examine this more closely.

Wizards, in essence only REALLY supports two formats; Modern and Standard. To that end they balance those as best they can. Both of these however have limited card pools, so most degenerate shit is kept out by default. In fact, standard FORCES people to buy new decks every format, thus padding the money vault at Wizards.

Konami on the other hand supports only one format, Advanced. Which allows ALL cards, it's legacy but for YGO. Now establishing that, what choice do they have to balance the meta? A very rigid banlist and power creep is the only way. Imagine if Wizards tried to balance Legacy into a real competitive format, imagine how much larger the banlist would become.

What else can they do? Forbid sets past a certain point like Modern? Force set rotation like Standard? These aren't options. A lot of competitive YGO players play YGO BECAUSE it doesn't do that. Myself and most players I've spoken with fucking hate Modern and Standard. They are boring, they lack fun to us. That's not to say everyone agrees with that line of thinking, but obviously many do or other formats and other card games wouldn't be played. There's simply no other way to build the game. If they won't do hard set rotation, or ban sets past a certain point, they have to constantly hit the top decks to move product and keep things fresh for players.

Can you blame them? This is the only way to maintain profit AND keep players happy and in the game. I'd like to see you do better. I can't think of a better way to do it, to be honest.

>>54695754
>however the resource system in MtG, namely the fact that things cost mana
I dislike mana as a system to be honest. Resource systems are great, but one based on luck of the draw is not.

>>54695853
Konami's interest in money is the reason for a lot of bad practices in how they handle the game, the problem is more how they make money than that they want to.
As for mana mtg does it better than hearthstone imo but I prefer how duel masters did it at least in concept

>>54695789
Oh I was thinking about just the median value of a given card's lowest value print. That way something that has like five different rarities due to reprints is only worth the lowest value and is still playable and people can jerk off to their rares if they want to.
>>54695801
>Inspired by wargame
No. Pokemon, actually. I was thinking about how most people play OU but there's a sizable UU and Little Cup metagame. I got the idea from just excluding the decks that required a bunch of money to play to keep it affordable, and then that expanded into power budget being directly linked with the actual budget of the deck.
>Tierlist
I was thinking about it, but maybe just an ordinary banlist would suffice. As before, I'd be fine if you wanted to play a few dumb cards that cost most of your budget and then spend the rest of it on shit that's complimented by or works to support your expensive cards. I could throw up a discord if anyone wants to discuss it, but I really doubt anyone cares enough I want to playtest it at my lgs but I don't know if anyone plays yugioh anymore there. I haven't been there in over a year because I stopped caring about /tg/ stuff in general.
>No EDH night
>Don't want to spend the money on Standard or Legacy
>Yugioh has problems previously discussed
>Never played Warhammer in any serious capacity
>No friends to play non-PFS Pathfinder, or even other tabletops
>Playing PFS ever

>>54695915
>Konami's interest in money is the reason for a lot of bad practices in how they handle the game, the problem is more how they make money than that they want to.
If you ask me this is one thing YGO does better than MTG. Konami reprints cards often, it's an obvious money grab but it keeps the game accessible. Jumping into Vintage, Legacy, EDH, or even Modern on the other hand is expensive as FUCK.

>>54695853
compare the following
banning cards based on performance vs. based on meta%
the first forces the meta to always change, the second removes an unhealthy component from the cardpool. Unhealthy, as in it reduces deck diversity.
If you look at standard you see a limitation of the cardpool that is ever rotating. This format, out of all the formats in MtG is the one that has the most similarities to yu-gi-oh, NOT legacy.
The available cardpool is of course vastly different, however the constantly changing metagame is exactly the same that people dont like about standard.
Modern as a format is easily explainable when you look at its limitations: everything after 8th edition. This format exists because this was , in a way, the point of rebirth for MtG: from this point in time a certain powerlevel was mostly established and held on to.
legacy is a format that should be left alone exactly for the reasons you stated. And it still lives because the powerlevel does not go up all the time. If it would, standard and legacy would be very similar.
They most certainly are not.
Tl;dr: Konami tries to cram standard into legacy.

>>54684704
I prefer to build my own decks. I have no complaints about synchro/XYZ/fusion monsters... Mostly just the onslaught of pendulum. I quit playing after that. Makes it far too easy to flood your field. Sure, my deck was a flood the field type deck... But I actually had to run special cards for that shit with generally some huge penalties. Pissed me off when it was like
>get 2 cards on the field
>now I can continuously flood my field with monsters without penalty until one of my pendulum are destroyed

Literally made my dark magician based deck worthless, before there wasn't a deck I faced that could beat it.

>>54695923
>I'd be fine if you wanted to play a few dumb cards that cost most of your budget and then spend the rest of it on shit that's complimented by or works to support your expensive cards

with tierlist i had something similar to this in mind.
say you play a format that allows 500 points.
No cards are banned, but all the cards in your deck together cant cost more than this value.
Going trough all the cards and giving them different point values sounds like it is too much work to reasonably do on your own (given that a lot of playtesting may be required to even somewhat balance all the cards in the system) but i think it could hypothetically work out.

Also, have you tought about what happens to the format once it does get more popular?
wouldnt the prices of some cards swing in such a way that the powerlevel of a 20$ deck would be different from one week to the next?
actually that sounds kind of fun.

>>54696087
>Tl;dr: Konami tries to cram standard into legacy.
That would have been a good example if standard sets werent shit but more powerful than legacy.

I never really understood the why behind some of the extra summoning techniques.
Like I can understand Fusion monsters because a fair amount of them LOOK like the two combined.
I just don't understand what Tuning/Synchro or XYZ has to do with it.

>>54696240
Maybe should have been more specific in my Tl;dr because the result of this cramming going on IS the fact that there is a constant powercreep in new sets of yugioh.
In magic it is not as noticeable because they do not try to cram standard into legacy.

>>54696221
>Tierlisting cards
That's part of the reason I wouldn't do it. The effort required to do so isn't worth my time. If the community wanted to, that'd be fine, but honestly that system gets subjective and there'd be a lot of bitching about what constitutes certain values. I think it'd be better handled by an absolute value like actual cost and then just banning out problem card in given brackets.
>thinking about price fluctuations affecting decks between weeks
That was the idea. I don't figure this format would ever get big enough that it could conceivably create that much of a ripple that it affects card prices, but I imagine the market would decide and stabilize sooner or later. Could be part of the skill in deckbuilding card prices change all the time. I don't really think they'd be that wild between individual weeks though. Could also be for building decks with a certain buffer in mind, in case value goes up.

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>ITT: people pretend their awful petcards were usable in any shape or form ever and scapegoat onto synchro.

>>54696544
>ITP: goldshitting spike with an unquenchable desire to win at a cardgame
Because it is the only demographic that would be in favour of shit like this.

I am not saying "dont play yugioh" but if you cannot see the obvious flaws you deserve to be ridiculed.

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>>54695482
>Only because they didnt print "banish all cards on your opponents side of the field" doesnt mean there is no powercreep in the game.
oh boy

Struggling Battle
At the end of the Battle Phase, if your opponent controls more cards than you do: Make your opponent banish cards they control face-down (their choice), so that they control the same number of cards as you. If you control no cards, you can activate this card from your hand.

>>54696649
Anon I'm not him and I unironically play TWO casual tier 3 pet decks and still manage to fucking win games at locals. I'm sorry your XYZ Dragon Cannon was never good but using a functional deck doesn't make someone a tryhard Spike.

You can't make a fucking deck around Craw Wurm in MTG and expect to win any games either.

>>54696842
You've clearly never played against getter

>>54696303
actually, this interaction made a lot of sense in my head
> hypothetically this format would get popular
> certain decks would stand out because they have tools of a certain powerlevel for a cheaper cost
> because these decks are powerful they get copied, driving the prices for core cards up and hereby balancing the game.
So maybe no balancing would be in need.
the fact that a reserved list does not exists for yugioh also means they can print cards based on demand.

>>54696866
Go back to /dng/ if you want to suck tripfag dick.

>>54696842
Anon, i am not the person who made this thread, tough i was a main contributor.
I dont say you cannot have fun in yugioh.
I dont have a petcard, i simply care about game balance.
I unironically play really janky control decks all the time and have my fun with it.

But shitposters deserve to get shitposted.

So what did early competitive Yugioh really look like?

>>54696954
Summon Skull beatdown

>>54696954
Goodstuff.dek with everyone playing the same fucking thing. Archetypes were necessary to kill it. Goat Control was the last straw and a really cancerous meta. Players quit in droves.

>>54684342
Doesn't /vp/ hate genwunners?

>>54696954
The first jap meta was all of the broken spells and traps at triplicate while playing the biggest vanillas available.

>>54697019
That's the point of his post, anon.

>>54696874
Yea, that's exactly what I was thinking. Price goes up and pushes deck outside of it's normal bracket, making a variant of itself in upper brackets (or making said variant more popular if it already existed) Upper brackets have stripped down versions of themselves for lower tiers. Game balances itself with the market if it gets big enough.

>>54696954
Play a big monster and attack with it.

Yu-Gi-Oh has always been trash.

>>54696954
good stuffs then later goat control.

>>54697040
No, the point of his post is how people with nostalgia shit up the board complaining, wherecas /vp/ hates early content and most threads show up to talk about the advancements and positive aspects since the game franchise's start. Also Clover.

>>54697090
>No, the point of his post is how people with nostalgia shit up the board complaining
Anon I made the post, this is literally what genwunners are, nostalgiafags who shit on everything new because it wasn't what they had as a kid.

>>54696920
If you care about balance then you should know that the introduction of IOC and later Cyber Dragon were far more impactful than Synchroes.

XYZ, that's a different story.

>>54697226
Yeah but literally ANY and EVERY deck can use and is made better by XYZ. Truly a well designed mechanic.

>>54696954

https://ygoprodeck.com/the-complete-history-of-the-tcg-formats-part-1/

it's always been ridiculously imbalanced

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>>54696920

This is pretty decent.

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>>54684828
:^)

>>54698416
Limited. ;)

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>pendulum btfo

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>>54698776

>>54698789
Banned

Do any tournaments encourage creative deck use?

Like throwing a booster pack at the player who won a match without summoning, or who chained above 5 links, or who won a match using no archetype mons...

Or is it only ever expected that every player have a tier2+ deck, and award wins based on whoever drew the best starting hand?

>>54698871
Pretty sure it predates the ban list

>>54698932
How would that even work? Have someone watch every game to see if any of that happens? Trust the players? What's stopping both of them from lying or one of them lying so the other doesn't get anything?

>>54698961
Have decent resolution top-down cameras at each table?

>>54698932
I'm sure some LCS do. One of the places I used to go for MtG would give people a free booster pack if it was their first DCI sanctioned match and things like that.

>>54698932

What if we had a system of different styles of tournaments? One could be what we have now, then another could just use cards released since 2008, and then a third could just be cards from the last 2-4 sets!

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To be fair, I don't think he was ever that viable.

>>54698999
And have multiple people watch each game to catch anything worthy of a pack? It's probably cheaper to put a person in charge of 1 game.

>>54699033
>generation duel

When will /tg/ undergo a YGO renaissance like we did with MtG? I mean, not saying this board is amazing at MtG across the board, but we went from complete shitters to some knowledge of the modern game.

>>54699040
>To be fair, I don't think he was ever that viable.

Maybe not, but it was funny to put your opponents creatures in your equipzone like that. He might actually see some form of sidedeck play for countering the grave if he was lv6.

>>54699066
I dunno, legacy modern and standard sound like better names to me :^)

>>54699099
try actually looking it up you memeing retard

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>>54699141
naw

>>54699073
It'll take a while. There just aren't enough /tg/ regulars that play the game in a competitive capacity, partly because it's widely known that Konami has literally always been terrible at handling the game. You'd legitimately have an easier time talking about the game on Pojo.

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>tfw you've only played Yugioh up to 2011-ish
>tfw it's only been the video games you've played
All this new stuff just baffles me.

>>54697500
Thanks, this was the best answer

>>54699383
best video game?

>>54699383
>All these new card frames
>Still no red frames

grrr

>>54701412
>red card meme
>everytime

>>54701412
I definitely thought they'd do that or a forest green before using blue again but here we are.

>>54701507
you got a new green out of pend

>>54699033
You'd get lower turnout overall... One tournament with a lot of variation vs. 10 tournaments where only a couple people show up each

>>54699041
>>54698961
When you sign in your decklist you check a box for what categories you're competing in. Everyone is competing to win over all but everyone can select from other options (as many as they want) like "deck has no monsters", "no extra deck", " win by deckout"...

As far as how anyone would know, the same way they ever know if someone won or not.

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>>54696998
>Goodstuff.dek with everyone playing the same fucking thing

>everyone at my local card shop playing 3 gemini elves
those were the days

>>54699033
Japan already does things like this. Tournaments on yugioh day use deck building rules that change from tourney to tourney, there are slingshot tournaments where the matches are best of one iirc, there are princess cup tournaments which only accept female applicants, casual tournaments with the traditional ban list, and so on

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I don't even know if this card is useless or not but those fusion materials and the self nukes tells me it is. The Sacred Cards made this card one of my favorites.

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>>54705865
Slate warrior was a ridiculous card.

>>54706017
Signaled the decline of the game IMO.

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>>54706013

I really wish this got a retrain so it was actually useful in some way. Not even back in The Sacred Cards was it good.

Gearspring Spirit, originally Clockwork Shikigami which is much cooler, was my single favorite card. I built decks to make better use of it I had a vicious XYZ Gadget deck that could pull out Achient Gear Gadjitron Dragon, or even worse Machu Mech, and lay waste.

To the coplainers in the room, DevPro is a free online full collection of the game and all cards, like a better Dueling Network. Play is thusly free. If you hate half a game, you probably hate all the game and can't admit it. GG and goodnight.

>>54707132
Just use PercyPro or ChinkPro. More people use Percy and ChinkPro has Links.

>>54706032
>Signaled the decline of the game
Kill yourself. New extra deck monster types made YGO more exciting.

>>54708972
What hasn't signaled the end of the game? People said the same fucking with Synchros, Xyzs and Pendulum

>>54709008
It's funny because despite their insistence that the game "fell into decline" or "died" it's still the most popular TCG worldwide.

>>54696998
Or maybe. Just maybe. They could have varied the support cards. There are currently less than 40 support spells or traps for any given monster type. This is a game with over 8500 cards.

>>54708972
more exciting, yes, but it changed the game in a ridiculous way.
This is the reason "nostalgiafags" even exist.
The term describes a person who played and liked the simplistic game and do not like what it was turned into.

I am a nostalgiafag by that definition but hey.

>>54709041
A quick google search will show you this is not entirely true.

File: WindEffigy.png (502KB, 400x580px) Image search: [Google]

502KB, 400x580px

Just a reminder that Konami made a card with an effect that had no existing application prior to its release. They later made Smiorgh specifically as a support card for this and never made another applicable target.

>>54709151
Wtf why would that exist

>>54709224
Blue eyes Shining Dragon was released in the TCG before Blue Eyes Ultimate dragon, so it was impossible to summon.

>>54705953
Wish we had something like that to break up the monolithic (or seemingly so) structure of tournaments as they stand.
>>54709151
>>54709224
>Why would it exist
Because it was part of a cycle of cards that did that. Each attribute had at least one or two monsters that could be tributed for two so it was less painful to get the big guys out.
Turns out, they're kind of bad, level 6s were far more efficient since it took way less to get them out, and Pendulums made it more or less unnecessary for Qli to function as a tribute archetype (though they did have saqlifice, which is an equip spell that does this, +300 attack, and search for a qli card after it's destroyed. I think it also makes the monster not destroyed by battle.)
>>54709280
It's not a horrible idea as long as you're not left hanging for too long. It demonstrates at least a modicum of foresight. Blue- Eyes Ultimate was released not too long after, right?

>>54709302
Water still doesn't have one.

>>54709327
I thought water got one in like that first water structure deck. Maybe I was wrong.

>>54709107

The term describes a person who played summoned skull beatdown.dek with his friends during school lunch and thinks that is what the meta was like until synchros were introduced.

>>54684175
You know they named Xyz after that card, right?

>>54684342
Serious yugioh discussion goes in /vg/

>>54692853
>>54692659
I got a decent job, a house, wife and two kids, and now, between family activities and social schedule I don´t have spare time to play mtg, what do?

>>54692755
>Konami in charge of card games
Yugioh is fun, but that doesn't mean it isn't shit

What was the best format in Yugioh history?

>>54712538
That's really subjective. Imo Perfect Circle era was the best

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>>54712538
I don't know but I can tell you the worst was almost the entirety of the Zexal age.
>Wind-up hand rape
>Dino "set 4 and Laggia" Rabbit
>Dark World
>Inzektors
>Chaos Dragons
>Mermail/Atlantean
>Fire Fists
>Prophecy with Judgment
>D R A G O N S
>D R A G O N S part 2
>Evilswarm "Ophion set 4 and pass"
>Bujin
>3+ splashable engines. Good luck finding something without a pair of Ice and Fire Hands.

File: old meta.jpg (358KB, 854x900px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 854x900px

>>54713848
>including D R A G O N S
>last three of helmets & staples
tell me what you think of DUEA-nekroz then

>>54714089
Well the dragons are a part of Zexal era aren't they? Why would I not include them? And I dislike thoes formats too but not as much as I dislike Zexal formats as a whole.

>>54714089
The nice thing about nekroz was that it actually had a bad matchup against a few anti-meta builds