I must get something off my chest: Y'all motherfuckers dont

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P S

Also? You should learn how to avoid these pitfalls. First off, grab a book about story telling. Any will do, as long as it jostles your almonds or zaggles your raggles or whatever the meme is. Personally, I'd recommend the Screenwriter's Bible by David Trottier and Invisible Ink(google it. Get the pdf. May drop it here if file isnt too big) Or Power of Myth is okay.

Then, whenever you're consuming media, be it anime or movies or whatever, be conscious of how it builds the story and the characters. Learn from seeing and emulating.

Good night Im going to bed. I just needed to finally say this.

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>>54635413

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>>54635413
>>54635450
>implying those anons ever actually play RPGs

>>54635467
How so? List me the reasons why you can casually disregard my statement.

>>54635494
Then that's even worse. They could be writing stories or whatever. Novels, Screenpalys. And they dont know jack lickity split of a shit of what they're doing.

That is how you get shitty writers. Do you want shitty writers? No.

We have enough meme-tastic writers out today making meme-tastic pleb shit like MAAAHVEL.

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I don't like it, it's too meta.

> I really like it because of how meta it is.

:)

>>54635413
>No shit?
In reality, I agree with you. In practice, especially considering people of a younger age, it's difficult not to interact with people like that.
The most creative people in this hobby will never be as noticeable as one edgy faggot with the 999,999th naruto ripoff. I have worked long and hard with my group of players and we have been gaming together for 15 years and still manage to come up with new stories. Hell, we had one campaign that lasted 5 years and brought us (legitimately) to Level 100 in 3.5e which involved literally thousands of hours of playtime. My world building notes on that are longer than the ENTIRE wheel of time series, I have over 15k pages sitting around on it (to be fair, its more like 2 years of prep time and 5 years of additions). They built memorable characters that earned everything they got, sometimes spending days on a single encounter and were rewarded with godhood as the prime material plane burned. They sat back, watched it, then got to work re-making it, and that was just level 30. They started as a hunter, an herbalist's apprentice, a millitiaman and a vagabond. They suffered loss countless times.
Their characters took on a life of their own. Yes, there was much of the players' attitudes in them, but the characters were so strong after awhile that the players knew that a given choice might be wrong by the character, even if the player would make it.
Fuck the current state of things. I would love to share another experience like that with good players, because the only thing I do well, is tell a story. No one on here will ever hear my stories because there are too many that don't deserve to hear them, and I will take that disappointment to the grave.

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>>54635536

>>54635413
>You're obsessed with the sauce to the point you ignore the meat.
What else would you expect from 4chan?

>>54635536
No, there's no writing. No productivity. Only Bullshit and Armchair Crtics.

>>54635450
>>54635413

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

>>54635494

...also this...

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>>54635716
>>54635467

>>54635467
I think it's an absolute shitpost and the thread doesn't have value (being condescending won't do jack shit to fix what's wrong with anything or anybody) but it's not *just* bait.

People on /tg/ get fixated on the little things and lose the forest for the trees, but if you want to make it better it's with patience.
Having a fit will just inure everybody to your actual message, cutting off the nose to spite the face.

>>54635785

>4chan
>not /tg/

WHERE ARE YOU FROM? /v/??? DID /v/ SEND YOU? YOU TALK LIKE A /v/ERMIN!

YOU ARE ON /tg/ YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER. ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND NOT LIKE YOU HEARD ABOUT 4CHAN THROUGH MEMES IN GRADESCHOOL

>>54635882
I mean, its not like it doesn't still apply to the other boards even if you don't need them.

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>>54635882
...but /tg/ is apart of 4chan?

>>54635922

/v/ermin confirmed.

I hope this place starves you.

>>54635413
>Quit worrying about making unique characters and instead make them good
Seems more like you are preaching to the choir.
Whenever the word unique is uttered people fall all over themselves to tell that don't you dare try making something new.

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>>54635413
"My character isn't a trope!" is practically a trope itself at this point

>>54635413
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH
>I can do anything you can do
>I can do anything better than you
>"No you can't"
>Yes I can
>"No you can't"
>Yes I can

You're fun, can we go sing musical numbers at a karaoke bar together?

>>54636098

>Whenever the word unique is uttered people fall all over themselves to tell that don't you dare try making something new.


...wut?

>>54635413
>All the settings with labyrinthine lore were built on one story. Star Wars. Legend of Zelda. Mass Effect. And even the most acclaimed one, Lord of the Rings.
But the story middle-earth was written for was not Lord of the Rings.

>>54636900
A lack of tropes is literally a trope.

>>54635882
>Believing /tg/ is some special place.
lel
/tg/ has always been shit, exactly like the rest, except /tg/ thinks its shit doesn't stink.

>>54638605
Wrong. Grand Wizard Moot proclaimed us the best board a hundred times over. Your filth and SJWery is obvious

>>54641432
That's like saying were a hundred times better than being sodomized by a rhino. There may be no rhino, but my ass is still going to be sore at the end of the day

>>54637092
Look at worldbuilding threads for instance.
The first thing a newbie asking for advice is told is "don't try to be original" or something along the lines.
All human purism.
Trying to construct a culture without guided copying from earth cultures allegedly can't and shouldn't be done.
/tg/ has become very negative about creating.

Can we get Mr. Eber/tg/ to review the bait?

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I hope OP gets Ebola, and anyone who took the thread seriously gets infected by his body exploding.

>>54635413
Agreed, anon.
I AM THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE AND I MUST POST ANONYMOUSLY IN THIS THREAD SO EVERYONE KNOWS IT

>>54635413
>>54635450
/Thread
About time somebody puts /tg/ in its place.

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>>54641913
I would... except that I honestly agree with it. The board is too arrogant as it is, and honestly needs something like this to, well, make you uncomfortable. A lot, and I mean, A LOT of negative opinions generated on /tg/ are simply the result of two people. One is Those on the outside of the system/trope looking in, and the other, the more common, is simply those who have already had the experience and are looking for something new, thus they hate on the old stuff simply because it's become "too cliche." The evidence for this is the "I'm actually having fun with 5e" or the "Starting in a Tavern is quite enjoyable" posts that we see every so often on here.

Of course, that's because we view these systems and tropes as static, immovable ideas that never change, rather than flavors of ice cream. There's a million different flavors of vanilla, and there's bound to be a version of vanilla you'll like. Likewise, don't hate on vanilla simply because you prefer chocolate, or strawberry, or caramel cashew. We stole the fetishes from /d/ and made them our own, and invented new ones, but we forgot the most important thing: Your Kink Is Not My Kink, And That's OK.

Ultimately though, I believe this post will be completely ignored, and even if it weren't, it's unlikely to sway anyone who's already so set in their ways.

>>54643079
This isn't reddit. We don't want your novelty name bullshit. Its not funny.

I suppose its possible that you do this as bait, which is cute because of the metaness. But not that cute.

Go away

>>54643079
I think OP simply represents a different flavor of snobbishness than the one he rails against.

>>54635413
No one cares and you don't have a game.

>>54643079
Fuck off and get off your high horse.

OP is totally right.

I feel like a lot of /tg/'s RPG player base is just trying to outdo each other on how subversive their characters and settings are.

>>54635494
damn straight

>>54635413
>>54635450
Not only do I agree with this, I take it a step further. I honestly don't believe that non-human races are interesting. The ONLY reason anyone cares about playing the Half-Hobgoblin Half-Merman or any other speshul snowflak races are only doing so for power gaming reasons, or are doing it because it's their fetish. Nobody picks a non-human race because they have interesting backstory or lore or characterization that can only work or even works better for a dwarf, elf, or anything else. They usually use it as a crutch for "good" roleplaying.

"I"m an Elf! I hate dwarves and look down on all of you!"
"Grrr, I'm a scottish stereotype dwarf, and I hate you prancy tree-hugging elf!"
"Oh nooooo, wacky hijinks! :D"

Nobody puts the time and consideration into how their Elf/Dwarf/Monstrosity grew up in the world and then roleplays that, they just roleplay the tolkein stereotypes and call it a day.

This is why I advocate human-only campaigns.

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>>54635413
>>54635450
OK. Now consider: most of the people in this thread agree with you. Where are all these people you're complaining about, except as occasional shitposters who are pretty much always told off? Are you sure you're not just projecting your own insecurities onto an entire site and feeling justified because of a minority of posters who fit your view?

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>>54643079

>>54644029
It's about a 50/50 split.
Also, people who disagree are clearly under the impression this is bait, and any sensible person upon recognizing bait will not respond to the bait.

>>54635413
LOL 100% of what you said is true. The bait images being posted just prove it, because /tg/ has no counter to what you just said.

>>54635632
>level 100
Holy shit. Do you have any pictures of character sheets or anything? or the stack of notes? Anything you could post? I will save this thread and come back later, I would love to see ANYTHING you could post of this. campaigns that last way too long are my wet dream. I have a 3.5 campaign that I did like 1/3rd normal XP for (so they are only level 11) and had tons of stories, but yours is way longer than mine. That's awesome. Please post something.

>>54644020
Or perhaps you interpret any trait exhibited by a dwarf automatically as a stereotypical dwarvish trait. And if they happen to have a non-typical trait it's just because they want to subvert tropes.

I think people often needlessly limit their storytelling. Race is just one vector for characterization. And not every character needs a justification for every trait that is allocated to him. there don't needs to be an explanation for a human character being short or tall connected to a thematic story arc. It is ok for a portion of traits to just be.

>>54644149
>any sensible person
Where do you think we are, and have you seen any bait thread in the last 6 months/4 years/lifetime?

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>>54635413

>>54644239
I'd be fine with that if I got interesting stories attached to the character other than racial stereotypes, or traits that only exist specifically to counter said stereotypes directly.
>"Oh, I'm a dwarf, so I have alcoholism."
>"Oh yeah, well I'M a dwarf, and I don't drink any alcohol ever for no reason".

These are way different and much more shallow then something like
>"Oh, you've been noticing at bars that my dwarf tends to avoid the rest of you, and that's because he doesn't drink due to an accident that occurred awhile back that almost caused him to lose his wife because he was too drunk to respond. Ever since then, he's been afraid of drinking alcohol, but doesn't want to ruin the party's fun atmosphere, so he drinks water by himself."
That describes a much better character that is unusual, doesn't counter the trope for the sake of countering it and nothing more, and also describes several other personality traits about him just from his actions and the reason why.

Do I ever get that? Nope. Just "Hurr dwarves don't actually drink in my setting so I don't drink durrr"

>>54644020
You have a very narrow view of things anon.

>>54644671
So it is again a problem with people and not the concept of fantasy races.

The fact that you're extrapolating this man's argument to shit like elves and dwarves just shows how trapped in your own pleb minds you are.
Take a look outside of DnD for once and you might realize the real problem.

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>>54644671
>ah yes, let me monologue you my BACKSTORY without any provocation to prove how DEEP and DEVELOPED my character is! If I went 10 minutes without spouting backstory you might think I'm some pleb who develops his character during play or something!

>>54644795
People can't relate to the concept of living like an elf, so they will not be able to put in relatable stories. If you're accusing it of being a problem with the people, then I have to disagree. It's not the person's fault that they're given such shoddy material to work from.

>>54635413
>obsessing this much over making a character

I just make whatever comes to mind and have fun with it. You need to relax my man. TTRPG's aren't supposed to be a fucking philosophy exam.

>>54644868
>Mention a backstory that is better than the other in terms of relativity
>HURR YOU'RE MONOLOGUING YOUR BULLSHIT YOU FAG

I don't remember /tg/ being this retarded. How long have I been gone?

>>54635413
Pretty accurate assessment imo.

And to the people whining it's not constructive, 2nd post is a real gem in improving your game experience.

>>54644904
Nobody is going to care about the opinion of a rollplayer, anon.
It's like if a farmville enthusiast walked into a discussion on /v/ about kinaesthetics or some shit.

>>54644889
So make another race, elf is just an example.

And elves are much like humans in many aspects anyway. That is why they are one of the staple races.

>>54644904
Yes, it is an entertainment hobby and much more about want to do x than about need to do x.

>>54644982
>So make another race
Elf wa
>elf is just an example.
Uh...if you know that it was just an example and this applies to all races, why did you even post?

>>54643079

10/10

>>54644932

/v/, /a/, and /pol/

The trolls and the memers have come. We need to remove them.

>>54644974
>not sweating over a 7 page backstory character makes me a rollplayer

Okay my dude. I leave it up to my DM to decide what he wants from my character and where he wants them to go, I then act accordingly to that and everyone has a great time. I'm sorry I don't have fun the right way.

>>54645044
>The trolls and the memers have come
Says the man who hits enter after hitting reply.

>>54644974

>I just make whatever comes to mind and have fun with it
>rollplayer

Do you even play roleplaying games?

>>54635413
>>54635450

>YOU ALL SUCK YOU'RE DOING EVERYTHING WRONG

>By the way, be a good goyim and spend some money.

Fucking shills.

>>54644974
I think we've figured it out. It's idiots who don't play RPGs who make shitty characters, and then snobs who don't play RPGs complain because they think it's writing a novel and then complain about the shitty writers who pretend to play RPGs. It all makes sense now, from the weirdly over-detailed settings with no room for campaigns, to threads like these.

>>54645122

>people can't pirate shit

You really are a dumbass.

>>54635413
Nice one mate. your post should be added to the pin thread

>>54645140

Before, "No one plays Tabletop games on /tg/" was a meme.

However, like every meme, children took it too far.

>>54645159
Oy vey, why would ya wanna do somethin like that, goy?

Oy vey, whadda doin? It's loik anudda Shoah!!!

Nah nah nah, spend those shekels!

Oy gevalt, the goyim are learning...

>>54635413
>B'utt de Munch dynasty of the Duchy of Sh'it

I chuckled

>>54645066
Let me clarify, it's not that being cautious and methodical in character creation is a good thing. You could agonize over whether your character is too tropey or too unique or too much of a mary sue or too bland for days on end and that wouldn't make you or your character any less of a twat.
It's about how much thought and care you put into a character in general. Is it a fleshed out individual with a tangible, distinct personality, goals and quirks, or a cardboard cut-out that exists to give you an excuse to cut orcs in half? Did you come up with the character within five seconds of sitting down to play, or is it a character you've been mulling over since your last one died and you've had a chance to get invested in playing them?

>>54645355
Sounds like you do a lot of mulling. I don't think you actually play tabletop games.

>>54645763
>You THINK about your CHARACTER?
Sounds like you play shit games

If you're playing to have a laugh with friends or kill monsters or get treasure, you're a rollplayer.
If you're playing because you're interested in playing a character and exploring a story or world, you're a roleplayer.
Very simple distinction, yet thousands of people are in complete denial over which category they fit in.

>>54645931
Nearly everyone plays to do all five of those things. Fuck off.

Honestly, this is the best thread in /tg/ at the moment.

We should discuss things like this much, much more.

>>54644436

>can't fish with an erppc, mate
Watch me.

>>54645816
We enjoy our games, but thanks for your concern. I'm down with thinking about characters, but insisting you need to spend days if not weeks nailing them down before even considering playing them is fucking ridiculous.

>>54645955
Then rank them in order of personal priority and make your judgement based on that.

>>54635413
>>54635450
Well yeah, subversion for the sake of subversion is cancer and should be avoided.

I find that people are becoming more aware of that shitty mindset lately which is a good thing. As for "my character is a useless unremarkable hobo" I've never seen it get much traction at all, are you sure this is a /tg/ thing?

I agree that themes are something that need to be talked about more, and so does storytelling as a skill. Consistent, well-explored themes, pacing, build-up, those are what separates good GMing from great GMing.

But you know, you could have made a thread promoting those things without actually accusing everyone of being badwrong.

>>54645958
You mean having people mostly nod along to OP while talking about how they're so much better than "those" people on /tg/ who seem to exist only in ebin greentexts to get BTFO or as shitposters who get shouted down?

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>>54635413
>Zelda
>good

>>54645998
Well, no. Of course not, Anon.

I wasn't necessarily clear, I apologise. I meant to suggest we should openly discuss /tg/'s "tribal culture" (I don't believe I'm saying this) and criticise it more.

>>54645989
Already shifting the goalposts? Your definition is shit. Quit while you're ahead.

>>54645958

I agree. People gotta talk to bridge the gap. People from /v/ and /a/ gotta realize how things work in /tg/.

>>54645993
Pretty much the only people on here who I haven't seen talk about pacing and themes as positive fall into one of two categories:
>shitposting, ironic or not
>full sandbox
One of those doesn't matter, and the other is people more focused on either character-driven stories (who still generally apply pacing) or else dungeon crawler sorts of games (where "game" becomes more important than "role").

Now, it can be argued that most people here don't do it well, but 90% of people don't know shit about 90% of anything. OP's second post where he provides possible resources might be worth shit if he actually linked anything, but as it stands what he posted would be as productive if it were just a single line saying
>git gud
with a picture of a book attached. There's also the fact that since GMing and playing are, at their basics, live improv performance, practice will help a lot more than reading. Not that OP would know that, being a faggot who doesn't actually play games and just assumes we're all here writing novels for each other.

>>54646241
>sandbox games
>focused on dungeon crawling
What?

>>54641829
>Trying to construct a culture without guided copying from earth cultures allegedly can't and shouldn't be done.
It's the exact same principle as "write what you know"; if you're just guessing at the details of something you know nothing about, it's going to seem shallow and phoney. Practically every worthwhile setting is heavily informed by real-world history.

>>54646379
I've always heard of
>here's a bunch of places you can go run into to steal cash, do whatever
sorts of games referred to as sandbox, but if there's a better term I'd love to hear it.

>>54646379
West Marches?

>>54646439
That's...one way to put it, sure. The proper definition of a Sandbox game is that there is a large area that is prepopulated with things, and there is little stopping you from going to one area over the next save for natural world hazards. Your typical 80s-90s C/JRPG tends to fall into this, with the most noticeable example being Dragon Quest 1.

The way you put it is quite lacking. It sounds more like a dungeon of the week type setting.

>>54647411
>one line of flippant greentext
>lacking
Imagine my shock.

>>54647512
Poe's law.

>>54645019
>r8ing V8 reviewer

8/8

>>54647581
>r6ing V6 reviewer

6/6

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OP here.

Glad peopel agree with me. Also, yes, I was being a cunt. Sorry.

Now here's Invisible Ink.

>>54644904
For sure, TTRPGs are a inferior form of storytelling, since so much is left to dice roll chance and doesnt have the luxury of going through multiple re-writes. But my issue was that it seems nobody even had the basics down.

>>54645182
oy vey oy vey shut the fuck up

>>54646003
Fuck you the majority of Zelda games are at worst flawed-yet-enjoyable, and at best are amazing. Breath of the Wild is one of the best games of the past couple of years.

>>54643079
Ebert was a hack. I didnt know him personally, so he may have been a cool guy, but he was a fucking hack when it came to movie reviews.

>>54635413
>>54635450
>>54649803
It's like I'm really on /lit/.

>>54635413
>>54635450

>Too meta

Yeah, subversion for the sake of subversion has become such a cancer than playing something straight is fresh.

>Mary Sue witch hunt

Also agreed.

>Make a story before you make a world

Disagree strongly, as writing for books/movies is a different beast to writing for games. "Le ebin greentext" aside, I genuinely find the best experiences in games have been when the GMs planned story has gone completely off the rails and it's now a collaboration between the players and the GM to work out what happens. Building a world around a single story doesn't facilitate these moments, but having a world which can cater to many stories does.

Also using Mass Effect as an example of a setting with Labyrinthine lore? U avin a giggle m8?

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>>54635632
>My world building notes on that are longer than the ENTIRE wheel of time series