Why does classic Fallout work so well as a post apocalyptic setting?

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>>54599141
The classic fallout vibe it's weird.

>>54599141
It's because it's post post apocalyptic, people got off their ass and started rebuilding society.

>>54599141
It's not as over the top as the future installments. Barring New Vegas, Fallout has come to be known as "the 50's retro post apoc" game. Bethesda has really milked that vibe and, at least in my opinion, have degraded some of the general feelings of desolation, despair, and loneliness that are littered throughout the original games.

>>54600793
Honestly that always happens with sci-fi series though. Halo and Mass Effect did it too, the first game will have a much lonelier and more somber tone to it that later installments will have stripped out of them because of increased budget, profile and the associated production meddling that goes with those things.

>>54601027
True. It's the same reason why Dark Souls "feels" different from its later installments. Not to say they're bad, I actually enjoyed Dark Souls 2 greatly. It's just that there's a bit of clunkiness and weight to Dark Souls that make it feel more... real.

But this is a discussion more fit for /v/.

>>54601106
>>dark souls
poseur

demon's souls had the heart

>>54601125
Wish I had the console for it. I've heard great things about Demon's Souls I am playing through King's Field (English translation of the Japanese version) right now.

>>54599141
It wasn't, but because you have the nostalgia for the game there's no point in really discussing it

>>54601196
It's almost worth buying or borrowing a console just to play.. Dark Souls follows much of the same beats, but in my opinion less elegantly because of the broader scope.

>>54600793
>desolation, despair, and loneliness
Compared to Fallout 1, 2 basically has none of this.

>>54599141
I liked the magics and psionics.

>>54601197
Anyone who uses the nostalgia """""""argument""""" should be shot.

>>54602325
Fallout 1or 2 had no magic pleb.

>>54604456
You're right, it had Tragic not Magic.

>>54600660
this

Also the highwayman is the best vidya vehicle hands down, nothing is as satisfying as when you bomb it down to Reno for the first time to that sweet music

>>54604456
>>54602325
ignoring the ghosts
the master being psychic
and the visions sent by that shaman dude

>>54600660
>west coast
>80 years after the shit hit the fan
>people are rebuilding and adapting to the new world
>midwest
>120 years after the end
>people are rebuilding and getting retconned away from existence
>east coast
>200 years years after bombs fell
>ooga booga gotta scavenge the same supermarkets that our forefathers scavenged before

>>54601197
I played 3 first and was born in 95 so I have zero nostalgia for fallout 1 and 2, and my opinion still stands that they were great.

>>54604487
>playing the restoration mod and getting addicted to tragic
>people now call me a junkie and some refuse to talk to me
It's almost too accurate.

>>54604748
Did you really expect any more from the West coast?

>>54604748
West coast best coast.

>>54599141
The old Fallouts aged like shit and are practically unplayable anymore.

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>>54605574

>>54605574
lol could you imagine if someone actually thought this?

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>>54599274

The game over messages are one of the things I really miss from classic fallout that they don't have in the new ones


>>54599141

Classic Fallout is weird because it is both amazingly pulpy and fun, but the environmental look and the music is depressing and oppressive as shit. I think people like that bizarre contradiction

>>54604748
>>midwest
>>people are rebuilding and getting retconned away from existence
Just like in real life, we don't matter so hard, we cease to exist.

>>54605574
tfw there'll never be remakes with better controls and interfaces.

People will hate this answer, but it's true and the only reason we talk about it today

>popculture references

Before you piss and moan about "LOL STAR TREK JOKES xD"

EVERYTHING in that game is utopian 60's refrences, cold war refrences, hobo decadence hysteria references and black nihilistic humour references.

Even if you take away the cheesy holy hand grenade jokes and 4th wall dialogue it's still 100% liquidized popculture.

By the way, I'm only counting the main games FO1-2 and tactics), Vegas has some moments.

>>54605574
A game doesn't become less playable over time. It's the same fucking game it was 20 years ago, you just don't like that style of game.

Which is fine. But don't lie about it. You're a "Fallout 3 fan", not a "Fallout fan".

>>54605574
What, you can't play turn based games anymore ?

FO1 has some fidgeting gimmick UI issues and needless clicking. But FO2 plays like any turn based RPG to date with no extra fat.

>>54605751
Every oldschool RPG and their mom gets Enhanced Edition lately, why not Fallout?

>>54605871
Bethesda hates the originals and wants to distance themselves as far away from them as possible.

>>54604748
And in New Vegas we're still eating old TV dinners, and in the luxury casinos the wallpaper's falling off in chunks, despite the NCR next door apparently casting enough concrete to need a limestone quarry in Nevada.

Fallout probably started with a decent balance of scavenging from the past and rebuilding. But then they let time keep ticking, yet they won't let the world really change. So everyone gets eternally trapped at roughly the same state of rebuilding, at least on screen.

The good old curse of popularity, they guys with the wallet won't let you change anything that matters ever again.

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>>54601125
I'd disagree.

As a kid, I was obsessed with Arthurian Legend, and Dark Souls felt to me like a fresh new take on it all that stays more in line with the original texts instead of just "Muh Epic Dual-Wielding Badasses" that Hollywood is obsessed with.
Hell, I can easily pin the characters in Dark Souls with their counterparts.

>Gwyn-Arthur
>Gwynevere-Gwenevere
>Artorias-Lancelot
>Ornstein-Gawain
>Gough-Percival
>Ciaran-Tristan
>Smough-Agravaine
>Solaire-Galahad
>Tarkus-Kay
>Siegmeyer-Yvain
>Lautrec-Mordred
>Logan-Merlin

>>54605893

Don't they try to justify it with the "War Never Changes" line and just have civilization explode when it reaches a certain critical mass?

>>54605962
Only when the creator's mouthpieces start it.

>>54605893

Well you also gotta remember that if society ever collapses ala Fallout, there WON'T be a complete rebuilding because all the easy to access surface materials have already been mined/exploited. This isn't an issue because we have deep drill techniques and shit but in a theoretical tie in the future where industrial civilization has collapses we will be capped at a permanent 17th century level of living until man goes extinct

>>54605751
>tfw there'll never be remakes with better controls and interfaces.
I'm satisfied and comfortable with that.

>>54605913
But none of those characters relationships correlate to their Arthurian counterparts.

>>54599141
>What did it do that made it so memorable

Not much apparently since only handful of old grogs talk about this supposed timeless classic and this thread has had barely any replies in twelve hours.

>and last this long?

It didn't, people play the 3D ones now. New Vegas is the one that gets all the love and attention on 4chan anyway. Occasionally you'll see /v/ shitting on 2's tutorial though.

>>54606135
Yes because people who haven't played the game would remember it wouldn't they?
You're talking as if it was a popular game that people forgot about when it didn't have much of a broad appeal to begin with when competing with its contemporaries.

>>54599141
Because it's one of the few settings that show a successful transition from the post-apocalyptic in Fallout 1 to the rebuilding of civilization seen in Fallout 2 instead of being based soley in one or the other. They also cherry picked and adapted from other great examples of fiction and built a cohesive, believable world around it all.

I actually enjoyed Fallout 3. Its forthcoming release at the time inspired me to find the orginial games and play them both to completion a week beforehand. If F3 took place 80 years after the war like F1 everything being rough, ramshackle, and people still living in the ruins of their ancestors would have fit right in with the orginial game.

>>54607961
According to rumor 3 taking place at the same time as 1 was planned but they wanted the BoS and Enclave so it had to be moved up with no changes made to anything else.

>>54608031
>want BOS and enclave so they throw out the time when it'd make sense for everything else to be like they are
>but throw out everything about those factions from their armor aesthetic to their ideologies and just keep some names
Why? They should have just made new factions with similar themes. Why are the enclave the only ones claiming to be the American Government?

Why not make some rogue descendants of the House Un-American Activities Committee with genocidal tendencies for the bad guy role? Why not have another tech focused faction with scavenged power armor and bleeding hearts: hell they could even have been established by former soldiers who were conscientious objectors that were locked up in some high tech replacement for leavenworth that could call themselves something like the "bloody hearts" without knowing what that means: give them all outcast paintjobs. Cool new symbols, cool new aesthetics, same both sides being idiots the writers wanted to do otherwise. How about instead of just wanting the Geck for a purifier, both sides want it so they can revitalize the capital and jump start civilization. You can still sabotage it.

>>54605893
>And in New Vegas we're still eating old TV dinners
There was a farms and ranches in New Vegas. NCR has Brahmin barons that own massive tracts of land used for meat industry.

>>54610341
That's one of the big things new vegas had over 3 all of the settlements actually had farms. They never really explain how half of the settlements in 3 had survived as long as they did without farms.

>>54609976
>Why?

For same reason that there are supermuties on the east coast and Harold popped up, brand recognition. Hell, the whole Fallout 3 feels like it has been designed by a committee trying to fill out as many check marks as possible.

>>54611901
At least the Enclave finally got the axe, if 4 is any indication they are going to milk the BoS and Super Mutants until the end of time. How many super mutant strains will they keep creating at this point, adding a new one in 4 was pointless enough.

>>54610341
I am now imagining "The Jungle" with a supermutant as the protagonist instead of a Lithuanian

>>54605893
To be fair Vegas had only recently been "colonized". Before house woke up it was still just a tribal area and until the families started working for him everyone was still in the primitive stage.

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>>54604748
in Fallout 4 they explained that there was a post war government similar to the NCR that fell reinstating the apocalypse. Not to mention that the raiders are less like gangs one the east coast and more like Chaos cultists.

>>54612098
But how else are you going to illustrate the point that the Institute are dickheads than to have the make their own FEV?

>>54606135
>Occasionally you'll see /v/ shitting on 2's tutorial though
That's fine. Even the developers didn't like it.

>>54605893
New Vegas isn't NCR territory and it only started being a civilized settlement about 7 years before the game starts.

>>54615083
>post war government similar to the NCR that fell reinstating the apocalypse
Fallout 4 would've been better if they focused on this aspect, played it up a bit. You have the remnants of the old world, but then also of the new world that failed to prosper. Scavenging through buildings that were blown to shit 200 years ago, built up again 100, and then blown up again 20. Interact with factions that may have contributed to the infighting and squabbling that lead to the government falling apart. And then you tie it in to main quest. Do you try and rebuild again, risking the same outcome as before? Do you let the secure but ultimately authoritarian Brotherhood control the Commonwealth? Or do you say fuck it and go underground with the Institute, the above ground really is a lost cause if it's gonna keep making the same mistakes over and over.

>>54615918
This would have given the institute some more weight if they were the cause for the fall and give them more of a reason for synths.

>>54615918
That sounds like halfway decent writing and we can't have that in our Bethesda sandboxes (now with 100% more paid mods).

>>54605962
No.

>>54607961
Except F3 had a plot that was a near-ripoff of 2, bad writing, nearly no humor, heinous voice acting, and made no damn sense.

>>54605574
Say that to my face, I'll fuckin cut ya m80

>>54605410
You are literally me in every way. When do we bang?

>>54622789
Are the two of you male as well? You need to ask these things beforehand. If you are both male, and you're not gay, then you have to remember to say No-Homo before AND after.

>>54599141
Because Fallout 1 and 2 were on-point as far as the themes of scarcity and brutality and the sense of doom and things being fundamentally wrong and messed-up. Fallout 3 and New Vegas were a little too comfy, and Fallout 4 is downright pretty. In those games you get the feeling that everything's going to be fine and people won't even ever run out of valuables to loot or cars to blow up.

>>54599141
I finally got around to playing Fallout 1 and 2, I loved 2 but Fallout 1 just wasn't my bag.

>>54600793
>It's not as over the top as the future installments. Barring New Vegas, Fallout has come to be known as "the 50's retro post apoc" game. Bethesda has really milked that vibe and, at least in my opinion, have degraded some of the general feelings of desolation, despair, and loneliness that are littered throughout the original games.
I don't know, 2 and NV didn't feel lonely or super desolate. Only FO1 with its tissue-paper companions and such felt lonely and desolate.


...Then again I played Fo2 with the power armor savescum trick so I had APA and my first companion started with Combat armor.

>>54604748
>>ooga booga gotta scavenge the same supermarkets that our forefathers scavenged before
I mean at least most of the Super Market stuff seemed to have been stashed there by the raiders.

I self justified it by saying that the East Coast got the dirtier bombs kept people from rebuilding as fast but left more buildings intact.

>>54605893
>And in New Vegas we're still eating old TV dinners, and in the luxury casinos the wallpaper's falling off in chunks, despite the NCR next door apparently casting enough concrete to need a limestone quarry in Nevada.
Interestingly they never got the chance to actually include the bunkers they were building on the side of the Colorado, the only bunker even near there was the abandoned BoS one from OWB.

>>54616862
I mean they were (Though they claim to have been the ones who tried to engineer that society in the first place, only slaughtering the meeting when the leaders were about to storm off and go to war.)

>>54604456
>>54604668
I mean other than the ghost I guess, there were only psychics, not magic.

>>54623438
Most of that was caused by mutation too, the psychics at least were just a random mutation, and most were nearly insane because of it. The only not insane psychic we see is the kid in NV.

>>54601125
I wanted to agree with you, but:
the first half of dark souls > demon's souls > the second half of dark souls

>>54615695
It's funny that normally 200 years sounds like it'd be enough time for civilization to have returned to a city but with Vegas itself there's like no resources besides what loot there was: it's dependent on gambling and without outside wealth to pull in it's no wonder it was occupied by cut throats, backstabbers, and cannibals fighting over what little there is and probably harassing the small farming and ranching communities that actually produce goods. Well, them and a cult of Elvis. House probably would have moved to snuff it out if they did actually try and make anything civilized there before his plan was ready anyhow.

>>54623351
>...Then again I played Fo2 with the power armor savescum trick so I had APA and my first companion started with Combat armor.
I forgot to mention that because I had tagged unarmed and for some reason instead of having four options on one thing they made punch and kick based on the free handslot I was basically a Kamen rider for a while, running around in bugeyed armor kicking people to death to save MFC ammo.

>>54624586
I miss the fun of unarmed builds, I'm happy that NV added the bonus unarmed moves it really brought back that old feeling. 3 and 4 absolutely butchered them.

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>>54599141
A style that still seems unique because of the weird blend of Mad Max with old pulp sci-fi and a little dose of X-Files style conspiracy and weirdness.

It was fleshed out in a way that gave it life beyond what most settings manage, post apocalypse or not. Much like how Warhammer 40k managed to get big (partly) because it had a distinct style in contrast with other genre media and a lot of fleshing out.

It's easy to imagine characters and stories in Fallout without much difficulty of making them fit, because there is a lot that can easily be made to fit.

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This image is undisputed fact.

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>>54625541

>>54625541
So given how Bethesda has continuously simplified their "RPGs" ever since Daggerfall, what can we expect from Fallout 5?
>perk system eliminated more or less completely
>no s.p.e.c.i.a.l.
>no speech options, the story is now firmly on rails
>day 1 paid mod support
>game is still an unplayable bug ridden mess on launch but luckily for you you can pick a unofficial fan patch on bethesda's very own mod store (only $9.99, get the patch for free if you pre-ordered the time limited limited order gold leaf wrapped physical copy of ultrasuper collector's edition of fallout 5)

>>54626098
>no speech options, the story is now firmly on rails
And they will still claim it is a pure open world RPG.

>>54626170
Kek, the Fallout 4 quest dialogue was hilarious
>alright you have four options
>yes
>no(yes)
>no(explain more, yes)
>later/sarcasm(yes)
Who really card about the little shit anyway honestly?

>>54626098
>>no speech options, the story is now firmly on rails
A "Tales of Fallout" side story with an on rails story could be interesting, if it was handled by a more competent team.

>>54626098
>no speech options, the story is now firmly on rails
So, Skyrim?

>>54626305

Goddamn was it frustrating not being able to tell so many of the quest givers to fuck right off.

>>54599141
Because it's actually the worst you just have shit taste.

Get the fuck off my board Todd.

>>54599141

Nobody believe his LIES

>>54626409
>todd
>liking classic fallout

>>54601027
Or Dead Rising and later installments...really any game series, whatever made the first game feel unique will be stripped out.

>>54626447
He claimed to be a """fan""" of the series when he bought to assuage fans that he'd do right by its legacy.

>>54605574
one yes, i ended up with all the best equipment at level 8, which killed the point of the game. 2 is still great, allthought there are some things that aged very very poorly

>>54601027
I don't know if it's just the production meddling, isn't it entirely possible that the games were intended to have more vibrant worlds and Camaraderie but budget limitations restricted that?

>>54626482
A lot of those option seem to have fan bases devided at the first 2 all 4 examples(fallout, mass effect, halo, dead rising) all have fanbases divided on what was the better tone for the series. Even NV knew about this and added the wild wasteland trait for people who wanted a more fallout 2 references feel because they couldn't decide which worked better.

>>54626513
>believing in todd's lies

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>>54605574
I admit, I tried playing Fallout 1 myself, and I did find it a bit clunky - I started getting used to it after a while, but it will never feel as 'natural' to me as a first person shooter does. You play enough of those and it only takes you minutes to become a badass, no matter what game you're playing, because you know the basics - you just have to get used to what the specific game tweaks are.

That doesn't mean it's unplayable, it just means that I'm a big baby that needs to check with guides every once in a while so my hand is held while I play through. And I'll never quite get over the idea that I have to check with how quests will turn out instead of trusting my own judgement and just letting them happen.

>>54626535
I kinda felt the opposite, and sorta quit when i realized I'd sent the BoS to the wrong base. (Mariposa where they won't even go inside and I'd already cleared the parking lot myself, instead of the Cathederal.)

>>54626535
>>54626581
I feel the opposite and the same t once really. I got good gear finally but only at a low level, but I started Fallout 2 with the savescum power armor and found it much more satisfying to play and level up.

>>54626556
I started with this a bit but after a few playthroughs and injecting all of 2 into my blood stream I can play both like second nature. It mostly takes time and acceptance of the mechanics and with the right practice you can start having fun with unique builds.

>>54626552
>failing reading comprehension this hard

>>54605714
i bet that's a trap

>>54626689
>huge tits
>trap
Tranny you could argue, but you'd be retarded to call that a trap.

>>54623351
>NV didn't feel lonely or super desolate.

I actually really felt that vibe playing it - sure, NV had a lot of towns growing in parts of Las Vegas, but a lot of it was still ruined factories and suburbs. There were tribal villages that had been wrecked, towns that had been hit by raiders, that sort of thing.

And another thing added to it that I thought I'd never miss from Fallout 3: random events. Say what you will about Bethesda, but they're able to throw in some spawn points around the map where certain scripted events might happen, and it really adds to making the world feel like stuff is happening in it. New Vegas, once you take the long route from Goodsprings to Vegas in your first playthrough, it's never going to change or feel different in your second or fourth or fifteenth.

>>54626098
>No speech options, the story is now firmly on rails

Considering that with 3 and 4 they went out of their way to decide a lot of your character's backstory for you, and really limited what sort of things you could say and reactions you could have...I think it'd be a lot stronger if they just made you a set character, but gave you open-world freedom outside of that characterization. Better than claiming that shallow puddle is a whole ocean.

>>54626098
the main problem with bethesda rpgs is that they shouldent be called rpgs, just change their name to action adventures with rpg elements and we are fucking golden

>>54626581
>>54626606
1 was extrealy clunky for my taste, i did most things by randomly stumbling upon them without any thought. Things wernt really explained properly and the randome encounters were fucking annoying most of the time (half the game i just reload because i know im not going to survive, the other im so powerfull that they are just a drag. No inbetween). Fallout 2 was much better at both telling you where more or less you should be heading and making it easier to find quest and not just bumble into them

>>54626783
>1 was extrealy clunky for my taste, i did most things by randomly stumbling upon them without any thought. Things wernt really explained properly and the randome encounters were fucking annoying most of the time (half the game i just reload because i know im not going to survive, the other im so powerfull that they are just a drag. No inbetween). Fallout 2 was much better at both telling you where more or less you should be heading and making it easier to find quest and not just bumble into them
Also some of them had events where if you go through the dialogue in the wrong order you're fucked.

Like Patrick the Celt who can give you +1 Cha, but NOT if you ask him for directions first.

I think some of my bitterness may come from playing a low STR Skilled build that couldn't do anything useful till I got Power armor, and immediately screwed up the BoS Supermutant quest.

TRADITIONAL GAMES

>>54605890
But that's retarded

>>54626911
from their perspective it's not. They are never going to live up to the original, so they try to make everyone forget and make their own series. You will never ever live up to the original classic games, just look at the new torment, if they did not tie it to planescape torment it would have been a very good game, but they did and it will for ever life in torments shadow

>>54626985
I think they had that mindset with Wasteland 2 with half the location from 1 not in the game but there wouldn't be as big of a fanbase for Wasteland as there would be for Planescape and Fallout.

>>54626985
They may want to distance themselves from the originals, but most certainly not because they were "too good." They weren't good.

>>54626720
Yeah, what were they thinking with that dialogue butchering? Literally nobody asked to voice act the protagonist

>>54626985
I have honestly heard of or seen so many games that were described as, or I thought of, 'would have been better if it wasn't a [series title] game.' Fallout 4 seems to be in that category as well.

>>54627112
But it's cooooool and shows how much money they can throw around and gets people really hyped up and helps distract people from the flaws of the dialogue system itself.

>>54626985
The most interesting thing about this distancing themselves from older games in the franchise is that the exact same thing is going on in ES.
>lol who gives fuck about the native nordic pantheon, they'll worship the imperial one and the native one will be limited to random references in various bandit taunts
>the imperial home province being a fetid jungle ala vietnam? that doesn't sound marketable, we'll just retcon it into generic medieval europe and give a lazy excuse for why it is that way in the next game

>>54627159
It never distracted me because I understand that voice acting is expensive and prone to limitations inherently, hell my first thought was how it would gut modding potential

>>54627061
I wonder if they're going to drop the numbering next.

>>54627112
Presumably something like this
>all other AAA shooters have a voiced protagonist so why don't we jump aboard that bandwagon?

>>54627215
I don't mind archetypical races and elements as long as a setting does something unique with them, but is it too much to ask that a setting stay to that uniqness!? It's so much better to have small dedicated fan bases then an army of plebs who will discard your work the moment something that looks like a shinier version of comes around

>>54627288
But product bandwagon in isn't even good busness, by looking like everything else on the markey you no longer have a unique selling point, you're interchangeable with everything else and will hemmorage any customers that dislike the new direction while only breaking even at best with the plebs

>>54600660
Nah. Honestly, I think the series started to lose what made it appealing around 2 and by the time of New Vegas, the NCR is simply insufferable. I prefer the sporadic pockets of "civilization" of one.

>>54627051
the main problem imho with wastland 2 (and i have not played 1) it that it's not too good of a game. At a point it just comes down to focusing one target because everyone has 10000000 hp, but your gun dose 5000 so you need a few shots in, while their gun dose 10000 and needs a few less shots

>>54627348
Go to bed Chris.

>>54626368
I think the worst that I can remember is that fucking kid who sends you on the first Dark Brotherhood quest. There's no option to just say "fuck off, I'm not your personal hitman", no option to demand payment upfront, no option to rat him out to the guards... Hell, you can't even kill him. He's marked as "essential".

And that's not even touching on the broader writing issue of how the fuck is this shithead kid surviving on his own, with no parents and no job? Where is he getting food from? How did he learn to perform the Dark Sacrament?

God, fuck Skyrim so hard.

>>54627382
Oh piss off. More than one person finds the story of a representative republic spreading railroads and cattle through a desert while "civilizing" the natives along the way fucking yawn inducing. We've heard that story before, heard it a million times, and adding laser guns to it wont make it more interesting.

>>54627254
The numbering sells.

>>54627395
>Hell, you can't even kill him. He's marked as "essential".
Not even that, he's marked as a child. Can't even damage him.

>>54627159
>I have honestly heard of or seen so many games that were described as, or I thought of, 'would have been better if it wasn't a [series title] game.' Fallout 4 seems to be in that category as well.

The main problem with this is that most people treat a series/old game as something that will make them money and not something that has a legacy. Funny thing is how no one really thought this through. Imagine if someone wanted to re-make "Crime and Punishment", or "one flew over the cuckoo's nest", everyone would laught at you, but a game? Och shure do that because games dont have stories to tell or anything, right? Similar problem with movies, now excuse me i need to go and murdere everyone who is working on the new blade runner

>>54627395
>no option to rat him out to the guards

That was pretty retarded
>half of the world seems to have heard a rumor that some orphan in windhelm is trying to contact the dark brotherhood
>yet guards do not seem to be even little bit interesting in finding the kid

>>54627434
But they got Harrison Ford!

>>54627413
It's completely different, because the republic comes across groups that are completely different societies than "native tribes": the technocrat commanding an army of robots and wants to rebuild the city he loved, gangsters that still are tribals deep down, a man obsessed by Hegelian dialectics trying to create a society entirely different from the pre-War United States, pseudo-knightly neo-Luddites...

>>54627500
so? Blade runner had a cloused ending, touching it at all will be a disaster, and it's a masterpiece of it's own. Why cant we just leave good things as they were. Even if the director wants to do good, the managment will just force in a bunch of hollywood tropes and kill the movie

>>54627563
You probably think less is more, it ain't, more is more

>>54626714
Do you understand what a trap is? It tricks you.

>>54627624
not really, i just dont think some things shold be touched and they were good as they were. Also i really dont trust todays movie industry, seeing how much they fuck up frenchises i really liked.

>>54627708
But starwars is better then ever

>>54627745
Yes, one of the very few exceptions. Now take a look at alien or GITS

>>54627776
Gits?

>>54627806
Ghost in the Shell probably.

>>54627745
Pfffthahahaha

>>54627806
what >>54627820 said

>>54627418
Oh yeah, forgot that kids were essential by default. My bad.

I stand by the rest of my point, though.

>>54627745
Eh, Rogue One was alright, and that was mostly because they were willing to be a little daring with the ending. There were still some moments with really awkward dialogue, and I don't think the movie knew what it wanted to be for about half of it. And The Force Awakens....eh.

Maybe it's just a matter of taste with these things - I know some people love Fallout 3 and 4, and would find the older games or New Vegas boring. Maybe I'm just bitter and unable to like newer things that are going in a different direction.

Why did all the people with Dwarfism vanish after Fallout 2?

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>>54629427
You know, for all the work that you could put into Fallout 4 in designing your spouse, even if you didn't play as them...wouldn't it be more fun to have a duo of vault dwelllers wandering the Wasteland?

It feels like an untapped idea in general, really. Closest you can get otherwise is Fallout 3 if you take Butch as a companion, but that's obviously not the same.

>>54629594
Multiplayer Fallout4. You two can spread out and do things separately, and can possibly end up as rivals in the wasteland.

>>54629622
Might've been a fun idea, especially with all the base-building you can do.

>>54629594
Please no, I don't want the direction of a Fallout game even more skewered by the addition of multiplayer.

>>54629642
West Marches but with Fallout. Did the most recent one have that 'procedurally generated quest' thing Skyrim had? Get something like that or other programmable quests going and you're looking at a neat little MORPG.

>>54629677
It doesn't have to be multiplayer, it could just be an NPC companion, or a party system like the good ol' days. It could be fun just to have them react to all the things in the Wasteland and add some emotion as you go through whatever stories you make, because as far as I'm concerned I've seen post-apocolyptia enough times that I'm not going to be oohing and aahing over it, so it might be nice to have a character who will.

I saw a really good video essay about how the cultural themes of 1950's "red menace" America contrast so well with a post apocalyptic setting. It has to do with a prevailing panicky optimism. Everything in the 50's was sugar coated and niced up no matter how nasty it really was. Cute cartoons taught kids to hide from atomic bombs, xenophobia and racism were lauded as patriotism and traditional values and American history was romanticized and glorified. That kind of denial is in high demand in the fallout universe. People get rich off of drugs and booze and prostitution despite a complete lack of lasting structure or security. People are prioritizing comfort over practicality even when the world is literally dying.

>>54627434
>Imagine if someone wanted to re-make "Crime and Punishment", or "one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
Yeah, imagine if someone wanted to remake Total Recall or Robocop. Or make a sequel to a long finished series like Bladerunner or Indiana Jones. There's no way that'd happen!

>>54615918
It would explain why every single untouched safe, vault, storage locker, and arms Depot is full of endless pipe rifles. The rebuilt government somehow ended up as a banana republic that only produced zipguns and then imploded.

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>>54629910
>Cute cartoons taught kids to hide from atomic bombs, xenophobia and racism were lauded as patriotism and traditional values and American history was romanticized and glorified.

>>54606031
Sounds like a fun campaign

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>>54629594
Not making your spouse a customizable companion was the worst bit of wasted potential for sure. They went through the trouble of voicing dialogue for both protagonists and half of it goes to waste every play through for a forced emotional hit 5 minutes into the game. Having the investment of a spouse you handcrafted that could grow and react to your actions from the beginning of the game and serve to at least ground the rampant 'SHAUN' angst your character seems to lapse into would've done wonders.

>>54626098
By "since Daggerfall" you mean "after Daggerfall" right? Daggerfall is one of the most advanced roleplaying games of its time, the character customization screen you can spend over an hour in it just messing with your stats for fun or even take a short quiz about your personality and background so you can get right into the action. You can do literally anything, ANYTHING, in that game once you leave the first dungeon. It was designed for roleplayers first and gamers second. Morrowind feels like a shitty on-rails MMO by comparison, but just like how RE4 is now considered the last good Resident Evil instead of the casualized and hated one, so too is Morrowind's fate.

>>54629910
Don't forget the irony in the 50s 'trust the experts' mentality and the idea that science was on the up and up, while in the Fallout universe the experts were pretty corrupt and not trustworthy at all, and actually caused half the horrible shit that happened in the first place.

>>54632446
People don't romanticise morrowind because of gameplay or character customisation, it's remembered for its excellent worldbuilding, well-presented 'foreign' culture and interesting characters. Daggerfall had good PC customisation, but the world felt incredibly samey and empty, not to mention the boring grind of dungeon crawling the same fucking dungeon fifty times. Don't give me the whole 'muh massive overworld map' bullshit, it was massive but it all felt the exact fucking same. quantity does not equal quality

>>54632529
This. I fell in love with the series becaus3 of the world and the sandbox nature of morrowind. Iv3 been various shades of disappointed since.

>>54632782

This, though I also like Daggerfall and wish there was more like it. Seriously that shit could be thrown together by any half competent small developer team these days (like it was when it was made) and it's a niche going entirely unexploited.

For Morrowind, and leading back to the OP's question, Fallout, an interesting, unusual world with a distinct style was built. Fallout could have been just a generic post apocalypse game, maybe even still with broadly the same story, but the whole thing with the Vaults, super mutants, retro-scifi super tech, the black comedy mixed in, some actually memorable characters (Morrowind fails at that mostly for having to deal with unmemorable fantasy names, but still a lot visually memorable characters at least).
All of it built something that clearly had more going on than the surface level stuff (Fantasy world, monsters, elves and post-nuclear-apocalypse with, radioactive mutants, zombies, raiders, junk and ruins), yet the surface level was still good enough to be sufficient for most.

>>54633355
>Morrowind fails at that
Are you serious? Morrowind had dozens of memorable characters. Not just the big names like vivec and dagoth Ur, but people like Caius, the naked barbarians, Neloth and the whole telvanni council, even little people like gentleman jim. Sure, you might not remember every single hlaalu, but hlaalu worst house anyway

>>54632529
Daggerfall had literally the same level of world building put into it, they're the same series with the same books. Just because the gameplay focused on combat and dungeons and made the world realistic instead of some theme park with a landmark every hundred feet doesn't mean the same exact writing wasn't explaining the world in the background.

>>54599141
Competent writing that attempts to stick close to tabletop roots. That's literally all.

A vastly, VASTLY underrated quality for a game to have.

>>54629594
>gross, fat, tall wife.

No. This isn't Feminist Fantasy Simulator. It's Post-Apocalyptic Walking Simulator.

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>>54634613

>>54599141
The classics were alwase more focused on writing and exploring post nuclear morals and ethics of a rebuilding civilization
>Meanwhile in Bethesda's Fallout 4 dev room
"Shoot dem wiz boolits."

>>54633823
So I take it you've never been outside?

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>>54616862
>Make Synths THE reason for the Institute's existence as far as the game's concerned
>Don't bother giving them a good reason for building artificial people at the expense of real people
I fucking HATE videogame writers

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>>54635799
>Why does the Insitute exist?
>To do vaguely evil science in near-complete isolation, and make synthetic humans!
>What do they do with these synths?
>Do manual labor, or have them replace people topside!
>Why?
>Sometimes to vaguely protect the Institute's interests, other times just because.
>If they act exactly like the replaced person, why does it matter that they're replaced? Even better, why go to such lengths in order to replace them when your entire organization is underground and only accessible by teleportation? Why do you consider them to not be people when the entire point is that they're supposed to be nearly indistinguishable from actual people?
>Uh...do you ever think that you might be a synth? You aren't sure you're not, because this is a videogame!

>>54635940
Still better than President Eden.
>be a self-aware supercomputer bent on genociding filthy muties
>some random wastelander wanders in
>hurr durr this has to end, eden. you need to destroy yourself and this base
>blow yourself up

>>54636966
>>54635940
>>54635799
I don't get it, what is so hard about actually contemplating the logic of these things, do they assume video game plots are some how intrinsically less importaint then those of other media?

>>54605574
Spot the newfag

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>>54637627
It's probably just the fact that Bethesda specifically cares more about gameplay and its sandboxy world than the story. They just don't seem interested in the story part of Fallout to begin with - even in Fallout 3 they were just going through the motions, and comparatively TES storylines are generally better, being at least okay and in a mostly sensible world.

If you don't want to actually focus on a good story, but you're obliged to include one because that's what people expect from the series, then I can understand why Bethesda put a lot more focus on other things. Doesn't mean I like it, but I can understand it. Though I do find it laughable that they put so much restriction on the backstories of Fallout characters if the stories are going to be so weak anyway - some signals up above are getting mixed.

Oh, but to actually answer your question: yes. Gameplay is considered the most important part, story gets stapled on second after the gameplay is worked out. If the two are switched, you generally get a walking simulator or something.

>>54636966
Plot hole I don't see brought up enough; Eden's virus affects those not born in Vaults.
The Lone Wanderer was not born in a Vault, (though they did grow up in one) was not born to vault dwellers and may well have picked up the mutation perk as part of Wasteland Survival Guide questline.

By all rights, the modified FEV should kill you as well. There's plenty shit about that part of the game, but I feel like every angle of the turd should be considered.

>>54637627
It's just a video game anon :^)
it's not like it's a real story

>>54615083
I recognize this rifle... It belonged to Randall Clark... Such a sad story.
He was one of my favorite characters, even when he's only a corpse

>>54599141
Fallout post-FO3 is widely different from Fallout before. For one thing, the 50's stuff weren't nearly as prominent, ancient tech wasn't all nuclear powered, and people didn't know anything about the old society.

>>54637627
The AAA game industry as a whole has exactly that attitude. That's why "big names" in video game voice acting are basically disposable and replaced by Hollywood actors and so many games try to be "cinematic", despite the fact that cinematic and interactive are usually opposites.

>>54638238
I'm pretty sure it does. I think you die if you drink water after Eden.

>>54638238
It does, if you put the virus in the water, the water hurts after broken steel

>>54634613
>not recognizing the features that lead to the best possibility of strong children
0/10 would turn you into iguana on a stick

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>>54599141
>Why does classic Fallout work so well as a post apocalyptic setting? What did it do that made it so memorable and last this long?

Frankly, as a long time Fallout fan ever since the first game they made, I've got to admit that Fallout didn't do that much that pushed the boundaries of the post apocalyptic genre at the time.

Fallout got its recognition because it was pretty much the only game in town if you ever wanted to play an RPG that had absolutely nothing to do with the fantasy genre. That's what made it unique and stand out at the time. Back during Fallout 1's original release, the RPG market was dominated by the fantasy genre. So much so that if anybody called a game an RPG it was almost synonymous with also being a "fantasy game" with some variation of elves, dwarves, orcs, dragons, swords, and magic.

That said, Fallout 1 was a solid game in its own right, and that's how it got so famous. What made it legendary to the point where it continues to this very day was how it stood out by being a post nuclear sci-fi RPG on its initial release.

In fact, I remember a developer interview fir Fallout 1. He said that the original Fallout was more or less just a "side project" the developers worked on in their spare time on a moderate budget - when they weren't working on their "main project" of yet another fantasy RPG with a bigger budget attached. Well, that "main project" went on to flop and nobody remembers the name, while Fallout still exists so many years later.

>>54640207
never forget that the original death claw model was based on a reused fantasy creature.

>>54637627
Often a videogame writer is someone who's already working on the project but has experience with creative writing

So, someone who writes fanfiction

>>54615918
>>54630232
I took that as "Making guns in shop class" for that 50s style, y'know, when schools had Shop class and such. "Bring your gun home and put it in your father's safe! Isn't that better than a plain old ash tray?"

And last minute up-arming of a formerly unarmed state.

>>54638991
There was a lot of nuclear power in FO2, but most of the vehicles were junk instead of explosives.

>>54626556
Instead of finishing my character, I read through all of that shit.

I feel disgusted by my actions.

>>54640207
At least you can say nowadays there's a mix of different genres, if not always an even one.

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>>54633767
I will fight you

Fuck the Dragonborn LDC

>>54604146
not an argument

>>54624761
Don't get me started on fallout 4
>melee weapons get a damage boost in power armor but you can't use unarmed weapons in power armor
>the only melee weapon perk outside of "boosted damage" is Blitz which just teleports you straight to your enemy
>damage is dwarfed by melee weapons and semi-auto rifles

New Vegas unarmed was fucking fantastic
>have Super Slam, Piercing Strike, Unstoppable Force, Purifier, Paralyzing Palm, Ninja, Slayer, Beautiful Beatdown
>equip ballistic fist and enclave remnants power armor
>go wild

>>54640207

It till is like that. I hate how every damn RPG is Fantasy, and not even like varied kinds of fantasy (Throw in Some Conan or 1001 Nights or Lovecraftian shit once in a while at least!) but all bad tolkein ripping off

>>54647812
dont forget the classic
>6 charisma plus two perk points to build workbenches at settlements
>Beth team say they want the pipe guns to look like creator has no knowledge of guns
>MC is a war vet

>>54647812
>>54648422
oh and
>need level 4 big leagues perk to unlock weapon stocks
>melee perk to unlock gun stocks

Planning a Fallout campaign and since me and my players are Michiganders, I'm trying to center it around Detroit. My idea is that Detroit was actually prosperous up until the bombs fell due to automotive factories being re-purposed to pump out power armor and military vehicles, meaning most of the local raiders are kitted out in suits of power armor and riding around in trucks with jury-rigged armor plating. But aside from a potential side quest involving pissed off Canadians occupying Anchor Bay, that's all I can come up with.

>>54648966
Play fallout tactics

>>54627625
So if she didn't have a dick you be upset?

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>>54624761
I was so surprised when I played NV after 3, where in 3 I'd used unarmed for the convenience of less weight but little else - but in NV it was wonderful just for fatigue damage alone, let alone the cool moves you could learn.

>>54648966
How about some of the locals are trying to get some of the manufacturing equipment working so that they can take on the raiders and expand instead of just surviving or defending themselves? That would mean a lot of scavenging, tracking down a factory that's in near-perfect condition, or making alliances with other Wasteland groups for raw materials or technical knowhow.

Maybe play with the idea that Detroit was also used for military testing, and there may be some leftovers of old experiments of various kinds. Robots, biological weapons, stuff like that. Maybe pollution from so much industry helped warp creatures even past what radiation might do. Maybe an outside force like the BoS wants stuff like that - or if you're tired of the Brotherhood and related power armor dummies, you can make up a new group, maybe with a religious fascination with the macguffin rather than scientific.

I can't really give you any specific ideas other than that since I live nowhere near Michigan, but just play with the ideas that are always in Fallout - raiders, tribal groups, Vault dwellers. Try to make up a corporation or two that might have been active there and what was up with them, like the Repconn folks in NV.

>>54648966
I'm kind of in the same boat, I live in Michigan and was planning out a campaign in the southern part of the state. I had it where a joint effort of raiders/tribals and vault dwellers managed to get a few automotive facilities back up and running. They use these to arm themselves and buy the loyalty of the various tribes inhabiting southern Michigan, before the Enclave offshoots operating out of Chicago do so. They don't engage each other directly for the time being because the Enclave thinks Detroit (Tritus) has nukes, and Tritus' leadership assumes the Enclave's power armor and robots means they're stronger than they really are (it takes place after both 2 and 3).

I'd never heard of Fallout Tactics before conceiving this, so maybe check that out.

>>54651212
It's one of the semi-canon Fallout works, so be careful.

because chris avellone took some elements iirc from the Chtorr series and the game itself was originally for gurps

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>>54653647
GURPS IS THE BEST

>>54653990
Gurps is shit you dumb frog.

>>54654485
You want to fucking fight you stupid oxygen-collector? There's a reason why it was going to be used for Fallout. The licensing didn't work out as planned, unfortunately.

>>54648422
Gotta make sure that the wife players immersion isn't broken.
>nevermind that a lawyer with no military training knows how to operate power armor

>>54657715
A random vault dweller and a shitass tribal from FO1 and 2 operated their power armor without problems and without training.

>>54654655
>There's a reason why it was going to be used for Fallout.
Because Fallout sucks?

Where did those dice roll charts for generating post-apoc settlements go?

>>54658331
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_iM5R4Xi8I

>>54659635
This one?
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Post_Apocalyptic_Society_Creation_Tables

>>54619281

They kind of do. Look at NCR. it's about to implode from inflation and the legion.

>>54660135
>https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Post_Apocalyptic_Society_Creation_Tables
Yes, thank you, I was going crazy trying to find it.

>>54660406
I generally agree with Avellone in that the NCR should fall soon, and I think that the best way to explore New California in future games would be after it's collapse. But I don't see why they can't just pick a new location in a different time to write about. The common suggestion seems to be Texas/Pacific Northwest/Great Lakes, but they could even do places we've already seen or heard about, but earlier in the timeline, like Arizona before the Legion.

>>54661014
You could have a game set in an NCR ravaged by civil war, so it can be adventure-friendly for the duration of the game with room for it to pick the pieces back up later on.
Personally I thought the New Orleans rumours would have been cool. Wasn't there a guy on here who made a New Orleans fallout setting?

>>54661382
It was a while back, but yeah. Shouldn't be too hard to find in the archives.

>>54660604
Gonna try to create a faction/settlement using this.

Leadership:
>80
Democracy/Consensus

Cultural Quirk
>47
Not The Lingua Franca

Distinctive Appearance
>72
Jewelry

Unique/Exclusive Resource
>98
Green

Equipment Quality
>40
Ramshackle

Motorpool General Makeup
>45
Classics

Special Vehicle Shit
>6
Shiny and Chrome

Flagship Vehicle
>27

War Rig

OK, this...could be interesting. A bunch of green thumbed farmers with chromed out muscle cars but shit weapons.

>>54657956
I'm pretty sure the Vault Dweller goes through training during a dialogue fade-out if I remember correctly, then you receive the standard power armour.
I might be talking shit